Johnny Bing
Footballguy
If articles keep coming out of camp like they are and he shows any hint of that in the preseason games he's going to be going beginning of 3rd.
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RB Christian McCaffrey, SF (33 Viewers)
- Thread starter TripItUp
- Start date
Probably true...at that point it might become a tougher decision. Thing is all the rb's at the 2/3 turn are on bad offenses with no QB (Gurley, Miller, Fournette) so you can still make the argument CMC could outperform them. Your point however, is taken and a valid one.
Rhythmdoctor
Footballguy
1 week from tonight, we'll be watching McCaffrey in action in an NFL game.
Meanwhile, Danny Woodhead will be going 10 rounds later. I know where the value is.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
True, it would seem so if you make the mistake that McCaffrey and Woodhead are equivalent commodities.
Rhythmdoctor
Footballguy
They may not be equivalent commodities but their production this year is likely to be similar.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
That point is relevant for dynasty, not redraft.
It should also be noted that CMC has a far more established back (Stewart) ahead of him than Woodhead (West).
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Far more established as in 30 yrs old with an injury history and incrementally declining ypa over the past 3 years. Did you factor that into your equation? And Woodhead will never soak up double digit rushes in games, which McCaffrey is fully capable of.
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Sure, but Stewart still likely to take the majority of the carries. CMC will get 5-10 carries a game if he's lucky and some decent receiving numbers, which is pretty much what Woodhead will get.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
As I stated previously, this is where I believe you are miscalculating. We'll have to see how it plays out, because this debate won't be settled in the preseason.
Rhythmdoctor
Footballguy
I find it odd that so many people assume CMC will only get a handful of carries and that most of his value will be as a COP back. I expect CMC to get around 15+ rushes per game as well as 5+ receptions. He was drafted 8th overall as a RB. That's a huge investment in a player and the Panthers will try to maximize that investment by giving many opportunities, not limited opportunities. Again, CMC was a very effective between-the-tackles RB at Stanford. Expecting his role to significantly change is a poor assumption, imo.Miro Z said:
biju
Footballguy
Although I believed his skillset would translate fine to the NFL I also thought that the speed of the NFL would make him less formidable. Due to his shiftiness I'm actually starting to think all of that NFL speed is somewhat neutralized because they can't overpursue. I'm starting to feel good that he "fell" to me at 1.2 in my rookie draft.
Panthers' Jonathan Stewart: To continue in early-down role
"Stewart will get the majority of the Panthers' first- and second-down carries, while Christian McCaffrey serves as the team's third-down running back this season, ESPN's David Newton reports."
Johnny Bing
Footballguy
That article may all be true, but if anyone thinks they drafted CMC #8 overall to be a 3rd down role only your crazy.
Stewart will get his carries, but if CMC can put up numbers the offense will shift from the smash mouth running style to a McCoy style backfield and Stewart will be goal line and short yardage. Obviously the office is going to say what they said above out of respect to Stewart and to see what CMC can do, but you don't take a player #8 overall to be a 3rd down or special teams player. You obviously have a clear role in your mind with that high of a pick.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Yeah, because reporters always get everything right and nothing changes as a season progresses.
Ron Rivera and RBs coach Jim Skipper on Stewart's role
"The Panthers' website expects Jonathan Stewart to "see the bulk of the carries" despite the addition of Christian McCaffrey.
Per team writer Max Henson, "everyone from head coach Ron Rivera to running backs coach Jim Skipper has insisted that Stewart's role will not change."
How clear do you want it? The head coach, the RBs coach, the team website, everyone is staying Stewart's role will not change.
Rhythmdoctor
Footballguy
I'm not going to insist on anything for CMC's rookie year. My position is from a dynasty angle. That said, it doesn't really make sense for any team to reveal actual intentions to the media and hence the rest of the league. Like Bronco Billy said, the differing of opinions won't be settled during preseason. We'll just have to wait and see!
texasbirdfan
Footballguy
Not only that but the Panthers have an image problem right now from ownership to GM to their braggadocios, over the top, and broody QB (he wonders why every defensive guy in the league, including maybe the referees, would want to take a shot at him like a clown on a stool in a carnival dunking machine game),who the marketing team would love to switch fan interest from with a 3rd generation, clean reputation, white star to put butts in the seats and bucks in the coffers.
They wont sit him on the bench
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Boston
Footballguy
If that is the case then they wasted the #8 pick...it makes zero sense to use a pick that high on a RB and then not use him in a big way...
Ilov80s
Footballguy
The fact the guy that drafted him was fired a near after isn't a great sign. I worry that the Panthers don't have a clue what to do with him.
Boston
Footballguy
That is an x-factor here and the Panthers O is not the most advanced...I would hope they understand that at this point in his career James Stewart is not the type of RB you want to be building your offense around...
Rhythmdoctor
Footballguy
I have a little bit of fear too. But I have to believe that a SB caliber team and presumably SB caliber coaching will play the guy who is 'special'. The word 'special' coming from reputable vets and the coaches themselves and supported by their high investment in him. I'm betting the comments quoted above are just the coaches being coaches. Being uber vague and very literal, meaning at this point in time, before 1 preseason game has been played to evaluate, Jstew is the early down back. Sure, that's probably 100% correct if the season started today. These guys have a huge motivation to not reveal their actual intentions, obviously. So although I am slightly worried, I'm not really that worried yet.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Wondering if he will return kicks or punts, even part time.
Rhythmdoctor
Footballguy
If not, that has to be seen as a good thing if you're a fan of CMC. I'd say if he doesn't get an opportunity next Wednesday, that would bode well for his usage in the upcoming season.
I disagree. In today's high-octane pass offenses, 3rd down backs are hugely valuable.
Just look at the Super Bowl. James White was the 3rd down back and he had 2 rushing TDs (on 6 carries for 29 yards) and 14 receptions for 110 yards and another TD.
Now, that was obviously a performance and a game for the ages, but still.
Check out Danny Woodhead's stats in 2015. He had 81 receptions for 756 yards and 6 TDs, and 97 rushes for 335 yards and 3 TDs. In my PPR league, that was good enough to make him the #5 RB overall! The #5!
You might think that the Danny Woodhead comparison is some kind of insult to CMC, but it's actually a huge compliment. Woodhead has often been huge in PPR leagues when healthy.
There's no shame in being a new, younger Danny Woodhead. In fact, the CMC fans out there ought to embrace the fact that their guy is Danny Woodhead 2.0!
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Boston
Footballguy
Third down/all purpose backs are valuable...you just don't spend top 10 picks to find one (if that is the plan here)...that would be a waste of a big time asset...James White was a fourth Round RB and Woodhead was undrafted...
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The Saints picked Reggie Bush 1.2 in the 2006 draft to play that role and they won the Super Bowl with him, so it worked out pretty well for them. There is definitely a precedent.
I think 3rd down backs are becoming increasingly valuable. If you have someone who can be a change of pace back and a passing down back, as well as return kicks and punts, that becomes a pretty attractive package. The game is evolving, three down backs who do it all are becoming increasingly rare and passing down backs are becoming increasingly important.
Bottom line, I can easily see the Panthers thinking it's worth a first round pick on CMC to play that role. I bet when Stewart retires in a year or two they invest in another grinder too.
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Boston
Footballguy
The Saints did not draft Bush that high to be a third down back like White or Woodhead...they were expecting more and he evolved into that role (which he did well at for awhile) because he was not the level of player they thought they were getting at 1.2...he also turned into a player that bounced around to five teams in 11 years...if you have to use a top 10 pick to find this type of player you are not doing your job as an organization...a RB drafted that high should turn out to be the #1 option in your backfield regardless of who the other backs are...now that doesn't mean other backs can't have a legit role or do something a little better in a certain area but top 10 picks have to be a "full time" player or you have not maximized a pick that high...
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Mccaffery is capable of being a 3 down back. He is stronger than he gets credit for. His pass blocking is not elite by any means but he can help out with a chip block to slow down a defender and then roll out as a receiver.
He has the vision and instincts to find the holes and grind out tough yards too. He did it atbstanford regularly. He's a better interior runner than dalvin cook.
If he doesn't get 15-19 touches per game bw rushes and catches right out of the gate I'd be shocked. That's not crazy. Think 10 rushes and 5 catches. 12 rushes and 7 catches.
The type of workload that mccaffery can turn into 100 total yards and a td pretty easily. Like jamaal Charles. Not that I'm saying he is jamaal Charles. But he might be just as explosive and he Can do a lot with a little.
If he shows thisnyear that he can run bw the tackles I think as early as next year he will be their feature back.
He has the vision and instincts to find the holes and grind out tough yards too. He did it atbstanford regularly. He's a better interior runner than dalvin cook.
If he doesn't get 15-19 touches per game bw rushes and catches right out of the gate I'd be shocked. That's not crazy. Think 10 rushes and 5 catches. 12 rushes and 7 catches.
The type of workload that mccaffery can turn into 100 total yards and a td pretty easily. Like jamaal Charles. Not that I'm saying he is jamaal Charles. But he might be just as explosive and he Can do a lot with a little.
If he shows thisnyear that he can run bw the tackles I think as early as next year he will be their feature back.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Well he was, but at the NCAA II level. He rushed for 2,740 yards one season which is the all-division single season rushing record.
Just sticking up for Danny - but your point remains - McCaffrey will be the better pro RB.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Oh for Christ's sake. C'mon, are we going to have a rational discussion or make things up to suit our positions?
I don't understand the dismissal of CMC to CoP back duties. Yes, Stewart is there for the time being and thus CMC is not annointed the starter and the second coming. But all these people saying he can't run at the NFL level, did you see him in college? When you run for 2k yards, you best believe that the defense is selling out on the run to stop you and it's still not working. Last year he had 1600 yards rushing on a team that averaged 158 yds/1.2 TD passing a game. This man was the offense last year and still got it done. I'm excited to see what he can do with a QB that actually demands the defenses attention, even if the competition level is obviously higher
BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
I like CMC a bit but just because someone ran for 2,000 in college doesn't mean he's destined for greatness in the NFL.
Tex
BradtheAg
Footballguy
I agonized over McCaffrey vs Cook at 1.03 recently, so I watched a ton of video on draftbreakdown.com of both. My biggest concern with CMC was his ability to run inside (I thought perhaps he was another Reggie Bush type as has already been mentioned on this thread). But watching him play alleviated a lot of that, he seems willing and able to go inside despite his relatively smaller size. I came away feeling like he is agile and quick enough to utilize patience, vision, and anticipation in place of size/strength to go inside. When you add in his receiving ability, combine, pedigree, college production, and apparent professionalism/readiness for the next level, I think his floor and upside are both very high. Cook may produce more in year 1, but long-term I'm very comfortable with McCaffrey.
I'm the one making the rational points, I'm saying look at the numbers. The Saints used Bush right from the beginning primarily as a receiving back.
Look at his numbers here:
Official Reggie Bush numbers
His first year he had 88 receptions (and under 600 yards rushing).
Meanwhile, that same year an ageing Deuce McAllister was the primary ball-carrier, running for 1057 yards and 10 TDs.
Sounds familiar?
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
So by your logic, the reason TEN drafted Bishop Sankey was to cut him 2 years later, and the reason CLE used pick 1.03 on Trent Richardson was to use him for a year and then trade him to IND for pick 1.26.
NO used Bush as a CoP because when they saw him in action in the NFL they knew he couldn't handle being a bell cow RB. They sure as Hades didn't burn the 1.02 pick with the intention when they drafted him that it was all he was capable of.
Please show a little respect for the intelligence of others here.
Bush was perfectly capable of being the bellcow. He had 1000 yard seasons for both the Dolphins and Lions.
So he could have been the bellcow for the Saints. They just didn't want to use him as one.
I don't know why you find it so hard to believe that teams can draft RBs in the first round to play a complementary role. That complementary role is hugely valuable in the modern game.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Bush getting those 2 years with MIA and DET were discussed previously. It was because neither team literally had any other credible option at RB at the time.
Since you are clearly going to persist with the premise that in this day and age in the NFL that a team would burn pick 1.02 on a player that you acknowledge in the quoted above is a complimentary player (your words), I'm going to disengage. This is going nowhere. Have a great day.
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There are definite parallels, they paired him with Alstott in the same way the Panthers are pairing CMC with Stewart.
