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RB D’Andre Swift, CHI (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
DropKick
Footballguy
I fell for this last week... and left needed points on the bench.
grateful zed
Footballguy
i have to start him.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
POP QUIZ
Swift has just caught a screen pass. The 5 closest teammates to him (click link above) are all offensive lineman. This is an amazing play design by Ben Johnson. To Swift's left and behind him, that's LT Taylor Decker. Further left and 7-8 yards in front of Swift is LG Jonah Jackson, who is about to pancake a DB (#6.) 12 yards in front of Swift and just to his right is RG (and sometimes C) Evan Brown, who has #45 teed up. 6 yards in front of Swift and a good 8-10 yards to his right are the only Bears free to make a play. RT Penei Sewell has the big 'un from the interior in his sights, and the other Bear is about to get smacked by TE Brock Wright (both are 2 yards from their guys.) LOOK AT ALL THAT GREEN.
How many yards do you think D'Andre will gain on this play?
The answer will surprise you
Swift has just caught a screen pass. The 5 closest teammates to him (click link above) are all offensive lineman. This is an amazing play design by Ben Johnson. To Swift's left and behind him, that's LT Taylor Decker. Further left and 7-8 yards in front of Swift is LG Jonah Jackson, who is about to pancake a DB (#6.) 12 yards in front of Swift and just to his right is RG (and sometimes C) Evan Brown, who has #45 teed up. 6 yards in front of Swift and a good 8-10 yards to his right are the only Bears free to make a play. RT Penei Sewell has the big 'un from the interior in his sights, and the other Bear is about to get smacked by TE Brock Wright (both are 2 yards from their guys.) LOOK AT ALL THAT GREEN.
How many yards do you think D'Andre will gain on this play?
The answer will surprise you
8 yards? AYFKM?
What does Swift see? Why does he cut all the way across, towards the out of position Bears? If he cuts up field and just goes North South it's a YUGE chunk play.
Dude wants to be a hero instead of just doing his job.
What does Swift see? Why does he cut all the way across, towards the out of position Bears? If he cuts up field and just goes North South it's a YUGE chunk play.
Dude wants to be a hero instead of just doing his job.
Fair. That being said Jamaal Williams isn’t even making that first guy miss. If he catches it. I’m not too concerned about what Swift does with the ball in his hands. He’s got to do whatever needs to be done to get it in his hands though. He also was maddeningly frustrating when he got stopped at the 1 trying to hurdle into the end zone. If he lowers his shoulder he gets in easily.
He’s shown that he can catch, run with power, vision, burst and can do things that no other back on the Lions can so when he misses a hole on a screen pass I’m not too concerned. What am I concerned about is him not getting the ball for whatever reason- injuries certainly seem like the primary culprit but maybe there’s stuff going on in practice soon. But I’d be surprised if many people didn’t think he was electric with the ball in his hands, despite that clip.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
if y'all watched that on a device, sit down at your laptop / desktop and blow up the still frame (first link) - you got two pulling guards with a land wide enough to jackknife a 18 wheeler inside.
watch how that play develops (2nd link)
when Goff bootlegs, 9 of the 11 defenders are going to their left
Goff throws it back and EVERYBODY on defense is either out of position or has a OL on them
If you don't think what Swift did is a problem then I don't what to tell you
***************
Exhibit B
D'Andre takes a pitch and the edge (#99) is way too far inside
one guy to beat if he take it up field - #53 Nicholas Morrow, journeyman LB (6'0" 216 and that's not a typo)
cut inside, lowers his shoulder, juke him, whatever - that should have been an easy 1 yard TD
instead he let's it get strung out and does some half-*** scissors kick leap that gets smothered
***************
I think part of the reason he's not getting more touches bc every week he makes decisions that are the exact opposite of what he is being coached to do
very talented guy, but consistently can't/won't do what they ask him to do - take it north/south, you have one of the best lines in the league opening gaps for you
absolutely no reason to try and do it on your own when the play as designed has already set you up for success
***************
ready for them to move on from Swift
trade him before his rookie deal runs out next year, he's not a guy you can build around
or let him walk and take the compensatory pick (but probably not happening bc they should be acquiring FAs in this phase of the rebuild)
the best ability is availability - he doesn't give you that
and when he is on the field, half the time he misses the assignment
he's talented enough he can sometimes overcome his own poor decision making, but he makes the game harder than it needs to be
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
dude I have been a huge Swift stan the last few years
but we're seeing stuff like this every week lately
if randos on Twitter are picking up on it, you know they're seeing it inside Allen Park
I'm not totally trashing D'Andre, there is no denying the talent; big time playmaker who can house it from anywhere
but I think this stuff helps us understand a little better why they simply trust Jamaal more than they do the guy they wanted to be the feature star
seems like it's not just the lingering injuries - though that's a big piece, it's not the whole story
FF managers are myopic, they'll just say "oh these stupid coaches don't know how to use him"
actually they know exactly what they have...it's about winning games - if he's not maximizing his opportunity, and he's leaving yards / TDs on the field, then they're right to keep feeding Williams
DeAndre gaining 7 but leaving 16 on the field is more conducive to winning than Jamaal gaining 4 and leaving 0 on the field…
Team Smokin'
Footballguy
Lions fan with Swift on the bench. Swapped him for Jeff Wilson, Jr. last week and it cost me. He sits in back of and right around these guys for Flex this week.
Gibson
Swift
G Wilson
Toney
And with Kupp out it's either G Wilson or Toney at WR #3 this week. Leaning Toney now that Hardman on IR.
Gibson
Swift
G Wilson
Toney
And with Kupp out it's either G Wilson or Toney at WR #3 this week. Leaning Toney now that Hardman on IR.
Chaka
Footballguy
eighsse2
Footballguy
In what context is a 4 yard gain better than a 7 yard gain?
zamboni
Footballguy
I think this is where we conflate fantasy and real life NFL. In real life NFL terms, I would guess coaches are happier when an RB gains every a hard earned 4 yards than one who gains 7 but missed a cut/block and could have gone for 15 or 20 by finishing a run. Those chunk plays are going to be few and far in between, so you need a guy that can grind 3-4 yards a time when there’s nothing there. And that’s what Jamaal does much more than Swift and why he’s on the field a ton more.
That’s silly then if coaches think like that. Give me the guy who gets me 7 even though he has the talent to get 20 over the guy who has to scratch and claw for 4 yards because he lacks the talent to get 7.
Boston
Footballguy
Great "insider" info...makes a ton of sense as to what is going on...it is a team sport, it's not tennis.
zamboni
Footballguy
As mentioned above, most runs aren’t going to go 7+ yards no matter the talent. Holes/lanes just don’t generally stay open that long with big fast NFL defenders. You want those chunk plays, but the bigger challenge for an offense is moving the chains.
I get what you’re saying. I’m not really debating whether a guy who goes 1, 2, -5, 35, 3, 1 is more valuable than the guy who goes 4, 3, 5, 6, 2. My point is that 7 yards that could have been 20 is still >>> 4 yards. So if coaches are really not playing Swift because he misses some holes and leaves some chunks while still gaining more per play than most backs could accomplish that’s silly. Example is that screen pass shown. Sucks he didn’t get 20 there but it’s still a very positive play! No other back on the team can snatch the ball cleanly there while setting up to side step the initial defender.
I’ll add that I think he’s misused in the passing game this year. I think back to his rookie year and the option route or maybe it was a whip route he scored on against Washington when he took it to the outside . And then the option routes this year he ran against Miami to score and GB got tackled at the 1. Elite stuff. He should be regularly used like CMC and Kamara on those types of routes.
Chaka
Footballguy
If NFL games consisted of only one play then you would have a point
But when the 7-yard gains consistently turn into zero yard gains, because somebody can't consistently follow the play design, it hurts the team more.
Last edited:
Chaka
Footballguy
You're making an assumption that Williams only would have gotten four yards on that play. Your premise is built upon something we cannot know. ATM it's Schrödinger's run.
Williams does have the longest play from scrimmage for the Lions running backs this year.
Chaka
Footballguy
But you really are debating that point. NFL games consist of more than one offensive play. The guy who can't follow the playbook doesn't get more playing time that's a simple reality.
I’m not talking about exactly 4 vs exactly 7 on that exact play (that play gained 8 by Swift and I doubt Jamaal Williams even catches the ball much less avoids the first tackler so no way am I giving him 4 there). I was using that play as an example of why even though Swift didn’t get a huge chunk that he could have gotten it’s still a positive very positive play.
And lol at the “longest run of the year” line. 51 once on 3.5x more carries compared to 50 twice by Swift.
No I’m not. I’m debating that getting 7 when you could get 20 is still better than getting 4. If he doesn’t follow the playbook the entire game but still gets 6 YPC and 9 YPR then he should be fed based on his talent because that’s still an incredible asset to winning. Of course that’s assuming his health allows it and that is still likely the biggest hurdle.
Boston
Footballguy
Yup...very simple equation.
Chaka
Footballguy
Would you give Swift the majority of the play time even if he didn't follow the playbook?
Chaka
Footballguy
You keep saying 4. There is no 4. 4 is a number you arbitrarily picked out of the sky and assigned to another player. It didn't happen.
Swift got 8 when he should have followed his blocks and probably (most likely by a huge probability) gotten a lot more than 8.
More than 8>8
Ok forget the 4. D’Andre Swift got 8 yards there. I’m keeping that play in the playbook for D’Andre Swift because even though he didn’t read or follow his blocks correctly he got 8 yards out of it because he has the skillset to catch that pass with a defender closing and then make the defender miss.
If he gets me 6 YPC and 9 YPR I’ll let him make his own playbook and play.
Chaka
Footballguy
For any start/sit decision this week, absolutely that’s true.
zamboni
Footballguy
The Shark Pool: “The hell you’re not.”
eighsse2
Footballguy
If by the end of next year, he can't stay on the field and average 17+ opportunities per game for an extended stretch of the season ... I'll be on board with y'all, just based on the larger sample size. But I'm. Not. There. Yet! Sticking on the "random aberration of injury frequency" train.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
If he wants to go back to Swift instead of Soft he has to prove it on the field by being both productive and available. He needs to be more like Tony Pollard, where no one questions him why he's not on the field, they question the coaches instead.
Chaka
Footballguy
"I'm not injury prone, I'm health fluid."
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
heard on a podcast this week
“D’Andre Swift is practicing in full this week, without an injury designation. We don’t know what that means.”
40 rushing attempts on the year. 13-22-1 & 9-71-1 on 12 targets last 3 games.
Giants D is giving up 5.5 YPC. Weather forecast is 37 (27 wind chill) w/ 19 mph winds. I could see both teams running the ball a lot as they’re pretty thin at receiver.
Swift owner in my league has him in the bench in favor of Conner & Pollard, and has Toney in the Flex. Makes sense on recent form & usage but this might be a good week to play him, especially if you’re an underdog.
“D’Andre Swift is practicing in full this week, without an injury designation. We don’t know what that means.”
40 rushing attempts on the year. 13-22-1 & 9-71-1 on 12 targets last 3 games.
Giants D is giving up 5.5 YPC. Weather forecast is 37 (27 wind chill) w/ 19 mph winds. I could see both teams running the ball a lot as they’re pretty thin at receiver.
Swift owner in my league has him in the bench in favor of Conner & Pollard, and has Toney in the Flex. Makes sense on recent form & usage but this might be a good week to play him, especially if you’re an underdog.
grateful zed
Footballguy
lowest floor of his career, but his celing is still pretty high.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Slayton is the closest thing to reliable the Giants passing attack has rn. They say over 15-17 mph wind is where it starts to impact kickers and passing - but you know how that goes. One chunk play off a bubble screen or quick slant & it’s meaningless.
Just in terms of production, Slayton has a better floor - decent PPR scoring 4 of his last 5. Swift has been unstartable, and two of his last three were propped up by a TD.
Think it comes down to floor or ceiling. If you’re favored the Giants WR is a safe option. If you’re an underdog Swift has upside.
zamboni
Footballguy
My league is total points so it’s a lot more about getting points than variance.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Giants are giving up a league worst 5.5 YPC (5.4 YPC v RBs)
Purely from a FF boxscore perspective:
TBH I don't know a lot about the Giants defense, I rarely pay attention to either New Jersey team. But this seems like an exploitable matchup if Ben Johnson game plans a workload for Swift.
There is nothing in recent games that would suggest that's about to happen.
Purely from a FF boxscore perspective:
- NYG are 28th in FF points allowed to RBs in full PPR
- RB rushing ATT 182 (27th) YARDS 984 (12th) TD 4 (26th)
- RB receiving TARGETS 37 (30th) RECEPTIONS 22 (32nd) YARDS 242 (28th) TD 2 (8th)
TBH I don't know a lot about the Giants defense, I rarely pay attention to either New Jersey team. But this seems like an exploitable matchup if Ben Johnson game plans a workload for Swift.
There is nothing in recent games that would suggest that's about to happen.
Team Smokin'
Footballguy
Lions fan. Swift owner sitting the bench. Lucky you. What a waste of fantasy asset.
Says a "healthy" Swift, yet listen to him talk tells a different story. And is he missing assignments, etc.
