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RB Joe Mixon, HOU (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Interseptopus
- Start date
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Chicago Hooligan
Footballguy
It only counts as a shark move if it involves suicidal levels of risk, duh.
Rookie_Whisperer
Footballguy
Drafted to a team that knows how to use his skills and deal with the PR issues. A little crowded for the short term but I like Cinci a lot for him. The off field issues cost him at least a full round draft position in the eyes of the NFL. If he's a clean prospect, he's a top 10 pick if not the first RB off the board. Top 6 rookie draft picks are solidified and I know exactly who I am taking #1 in the only league I have that pick.
Well they got him at pick 48 instead but I saw it coming all night like a slow moving horror scene.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
??? The have experience with it -- because they keep drafting troubled players. But they also continuously have trouble with those players.
Mavis
Footballguy
Any answers to why they dont win playoff games? If I could only take a few guesses why, one would be a complete and total mismanagement of your roster. Teams loading up with 3 RBs is dumb. How many 2nds they use on their RBs and cant figure it out? What good is Mixon if your line is trash? Nevermind, whats the point... owners like Mike Brown are not trying to win a SB, if they were Lewis would have been gone long ago.
Rookie_Whisperer
Footballguy
I'd suggest watching the post draft interview if you believe in Mixon. Wow, the coaches really like him. But hey, if you are inclined to pass on him I would certainly never talk you out of that COA. In fact, I hope everyone in every single one of my leagues passes on him. I have a 1.04 pick also in a league and would really like to land him there as well. Seriously, everyone needs to focus on what happened three years ago and not on his football skills or the what the coaches think about him. Then have rotoworld write up something saying that he might be an H-back or something (like they were doing for David Johnson after the draft) and everyone can repeat that ad nauseam. I'm counting on everyone here to mobilize and really drive down his draft stock. Don't let me down!
buck naked
Footballguy
ESPN certainly did their part. The first thing they showed after he was picked was show the video as if we never saw it, and gave us their solemn "this is graphic" warning as if our virgin eyes would be unable to handle it.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
I wasn't saying to take or to pass on him.
I was saying that Cincys track record with troubled players isnt a good thing. You can admit that and still want to draft him.
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Caesar
Footballguy
Seems to be a pretty common misconception in here. It was definitely a fair argument 5 years ago, but in recent years, the past 5 to be precise, 6 arrests by Bengals, half of those were Adam Jones, and the other three are no longer with the team.
The teams with the least number of arrests over the last 5 years:
BUF 5, CAR 3, DAL 5, HOU 2, MIA 4, NE 5, NO 4, NYG 5, OAK 4, SD 1, WAS 3.
The Most:
IND 12, SF 13.
I'm not justifying anything, but simply pointing out that saying the Bengals "continuously have trouble" with those players is more perception than reality from a legal standpoint, at least in comparison to most other NFL teams.
EBF
Footballguy
I did. Might have been stupid, but I've never been a huge Fournette believer and I think Mixon's skill set is better suited to PPR leagues because he's a much more dynamic weapon in the passing game. Also, while it's generally a terrible practice to pass on a top 10 NFL draft pick for a 2nd rounder, Mixon's situation is a little bit different and renders his draft slot somewhat illegitimate.
I think Fournette will be a multiple 1000+ yard rusher in the NFL, but I've never felt he's quite the player they've built him up to be. You hear the name Peterson mentioned and I just don't see that. Fournette has power and speed to be sure, but I don't see consistently great feet/cuts/agility. Mixon is the only back in the draft who combines size, elusiveness, speed, and receiving skills. Others might have 2-3 of those things, but nobody else is the total package.
If he pans out, you've got a top 3-4 dynasty RB in the mold of Bell/Forte/DJ/etc.
massraider
Footballguy
Hey that's great. Didn't really address the post you quoted, but that's great.
Rookie_Whisperer
Footballguy
My apologies for not addressing every silly thought, but I'll make an exception for you and your silly thought.
Cinci has the organizational backbone and coaching staff to absorb the PR heatround for taking a chance on a player with Mixon's history. I could care less if they have had troubles in the past with other players or what their winning percentage and playoff records are. Drafting Mixon is not for everyone and I'm not looking for elite character out of my fantasy RBs, I'm looking for elite skill sets on teams that know how to maximize those skills for the next 3 to 5 years. Nothing else.
Rodeojones
Footballguy
Watching ESPN Insiders today with Dan Graziano and Louis Riddick and they had a segment called "Offensive Rookies to Watch". They had a list of 10 offensive rookies and they ranked the top 5 for potential success their rookie season. On the list were the obvious ones and oddly included Mitch Trubisky yet missing on the entire list of options was Joe Mixon.
I think everyone agrees that what Mixon did was reprehensible but ESPN making a moral statement by not even including him on the list is frustrating. I would like to hear peoples opinions on Mixon on the field and to include a list that had Trubisky but not Mixon is too much for me.
Isn't that 'Insiders' stuff you gotta pay for? if so, no wonder they are laying people off.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
ESPN is failing because they are focusing on politics and letting their real analysis of sports go the route of the dinosaur. It's sad. But, maybe something else will rise in the shadows of ESPN as it burns to the ground, something else that will actually just focus on sports.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
No, it's a show called NFL Insiders.
As Dan said, they are failing because they are unwatchable with their social and moral editorials. I ignore CNN for that stuff, don't put it in my sports programming.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
That and people want more content over theatrics. Stuart Scott was the beginning and the end for ESPN
It's got nothing to do with politics and has everything to do with people not having to buy cable because of other options.
I can only speak for myself but I've never not had cable and I've not watched Sportscenter in over 10 years and that used to be one of the highlights of my day.
Now a lot of that does in fact have to do with other options, but those options just became a lot more attractive then watching ESPN non game content, save for a few 30 for 30's.
Lott's Fingertip
Footballguy
If you have a cable package with ESPN, then they are still getting paid for your "subscription".
The growing number of cordcutters is more directly affecting their bottom line.
Solid point and I'm sure people cutting subscriptions is the is the #1 financial issue but they are not HBO either, meaning they make money selling advertising space. I don't work in that industry to know impact on lower eyeballs watching your programming but I would think it impacts how much advertising dollars you bring in, which for all I know is a small piece of their financial puzzle but got to think it matters some. ETA- I actually looked this up but only found data from 2014 and that year advertising dollars accounted for $3.9B and $6.3B came from cable affiliates and these two revenue sources accounted for all but $1B of ESPN's $11.2M revenue. So advertising for sure is big part of revenue but I can't possibly know how much that declines when less people watch.
But my point and I think the one some others were making is if the product was good enough the issue of cutting subscriptions would not so bad. It would still exist if ESPN was as good as they have ever been because of the changing demographics of people who watch sports but the product still matters.
Sorry Joe Mixon truther's probably not what you came here to read up on.
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voiceofunreason
Footballguy
Lower eyeballs? Maybe now that we've reached the low point can we just talk about Mixon on the field?
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Yep. The same company that takes a stance against Mixon has employed people like Ray Lewis before. As I've learned most people that make these public political stances are the biggest hypocrites in the world.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Then why aren't other networks drastically cutting staff? Can we just cut ESPN from our DirecTV and cable packages? Because if so let me know how and I will call DirecTV today. You pay for a TV service you are paying for ESPN. That simple.
It has everything to do with politics. People don't want to be lectured. They don't watch ESPN for CNN talking points. They want to watch it for sports. And it's become far less about sports. I don't understand how other networks are doing very well but ESPN is the only one cutting staff if it's all about cutting the cord...
Anyways, back to Mixon!
ESPN gets a ginormous amount of money for each cable subscription. They're significantly more impacted by the cord cutting. This isn't an opinion. There are tons of articles out there that provide the stats that back his up.
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pghrob
Footballguy
If I am leaning to drafting RB, I am having a difficult time shaking the notion to draft Mixon 1.1 in 12 team ppr rookie draft. Patience with him establishing himself as a true 3 down back may reap better rewards over the long haul. Bengals offense seems more poised than Jags at this point. Not convinced that McCaffrey is that much better over time.
All 3 of Fournette, Mixon, and McCaffrey look to be promising prospects. I just have hunch that Mixon's future sustained production seems more likely.
All 3 of Fournette, Mixon, and McCaffrey look to be promising prospects. I just have hunch that Mixon's future sustained production seems more likely.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
Mixon love is incredible
I saw the same love for Ronnie Hillman, Trent Richardson, Monty Ball etc
I saw the same love for Ronnie Hillman, Trent Richardson, Monty Ball etc
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Saw it for Adrian Peterson, Ezekial Elliott, and Ladainian Tomlinson too. Not sure what any of that means.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
What it means is once you get past the talent, it comes down to desire, which is hard to figure out before you draft the guy. The first 3 didn't have it, 2 of the next 3 do, Elliott is too early to tell but looks quite promising.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
What the heck is even the parallel here? That they're all football players? I don't understand how any of these guys are more relevant to Mixon than to any other RB to ever come in to the league.
pghrob
Footballguy
And you'll find love for this year's crop of rookies. Time will tell which are the real deal and which are not. FWIW, I drafted Trent Richardson & RGIII at #2 & #3 their rookie years. Pretty much EVERYONE in pros & fantasy at the time viewed them as can't miss prospects. The point being that we all are prone to wrongly evaulating these blue chip rookies.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
I still don't get your point. So you're saying there is a risk with a player? No kidding, that's why there is an 18 page discussing him instead of a 1-page plaque with his hall of fame induction speech.
And why this thread to bring this point up, as opposed to literally any other thread about a player on this forum? I mean, at least if you had said "people were high on Maurice Clarrett too" there would have been a connection there.
pghrob
Footballguy
I didn't originally raise the point. I was replying to and agreeing with the counterpoint. And yes that was my point, simply that all untested rookies do have risk. You're right. One of the purposes of the entire process of posting here on this message board website is for us to work through & discuss the players and their impact on the game to try and work through the perceived risks to see if we could draft the right players to make our fantasy teams into winners. Maurice Clarrett is another great example. You get it. That is my point.
Snorkelson
Footballguy
No such thing as a can't miss prospect. In fact, rg3 had a lot of questions about whether his game would translate. It did, until his game changed due to injury. Can't predict that. Trich was hyped for a solid year before he was drafted- I think this happens a lot, you hear how great this guy will be over and over and over and expect top 10 numbers out of the gate. Kind of like fournette this year, or Chubb, who was hyped last year for this draft, and will continue to be until next year. I'm not saying those guys are busts, but the longer you've heard a name the more comfortable you may be with that player, maybe helping you to overlook shortcomings in talent or opportunity.
That draft in particular was terrible for skill guys, showing that the professionals are just as bad. Blackmon, wright, aj jenkins, weeden, all 1st rounders that haven't really done much. 2nd round is bad too.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
The problem is when a player that receives a lot of hype, such as Mixon, falls flat on his face those that descent from the popular opinion puff their feathers out and strut around saying "I told you so." Unfortunately that's what a lot of the "predictions" have become; who is right and who is wrong and who can brag and who has to sulk away and never come back to that thread unless the situation turns back toward their favor. We can't just have a conversation about a player and let whatever happens happen.
Mixon may be an awesome RB. He may just absolutely suck. He could hit a woman and be banished from the NFL. He could be average. Who cares. He has potential to be really good; his talent is exceptional. Many of us are excited over it and rightfully so. No one here knows for sure what will happen, and none of us pretend to.
What is most helpful with the forums and these threads is for all of us to gather as much opinion, facts, and predictions as we can and make our own opinions based on that. It's great that people disagree with me and think Mixon is going to either repeat his violent incident or he will just not do well in the NFL. I enjoy reading peoples' reasoning for this. It challenges my own thoughts and opinions and will either solidfy my opinion or will potentially change it. Debating for the next 6 months whether or not Mixon will win rookie of the year honors is ridiculous. Debating if he should go 1.01 in rookie drafts is very legitimate.
Mixon is a polarizing NFL figure because his most major incident was captured on video. That causes people to form opinions and take sides. It's natural a thread on him would generate a lot of pages and a lot of differing opinions. I just hope we can all respect each other's opinions and offer legitimate counter points to help us all either reaffirm our beliefs or take other factors into consideration coming into his rookie season regarding expectations and long term value.
Mixon may be an awesome RB. He may just absolutely suck. He could hit a woman and be banished from the NFL. He could be average. Who cares. He has potential to be really good; his talent is exceptional. Many of us are excited over it and rightfully so. No one here knows for sure what will happen, and none of us pretend to.
What is most helpful with the forums and these threads is for all of us to gather as much opinion, facts, and predictions as we can and make our own opinions based on that. It's great that people disagree with me and think Mixon is going to either repeat his violent incident or he will just not do well in the NFL. I enjoy reading peoples' reasoning for this. It challenges my own thoughts and opinions and will either solidfy my opinion or will potentially change it. Debating for the next 6 months whether or not Mixon will win rookie of the year honors is ridiculous. Debating if he should go 1.01 in rookie drafts is very legitimate.
Mixon is a polarizing NFL figure because his most major incident was captured on video. That causes people to form opinions and take sides. It's natural a thread on him would generate a lot of pages and a lot of differing opinions. I just hope we can all respect each other's opinions and offer legitimate counter points to help us all either reaffirm our beliefs or take other factors into consideration coming into his rookie season regarding expectations and long term value.
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Mr Fantasy
Footballguy
Concept Coop
Footballguy
OT, but what's wrong with Ray Lewis? I know there's the running joke that he's a murderer, but he's clearly not. And the guys who did it were found in court to have acted in self defense, even.
