RB Ty'son Williams, BAL (1 Viewer)

[humpback]

All trades carry risk, of course.

but I doubt you could get Chubba Hubbard for Williams today.

what I saw was what so many seem to miss. Not only is Murray not washed up, his 3 year trend is positive. He averaged 4.5 YPC in 2020 & has a ton of experience. he may not have the top end speed of Williams, but he’s a lock for positive yards on almost every touch. 

coaches love that kind of player. I saw very little chance of Williams being a high volume when they picked up Murray.

You're seeing what you want to see again. He lost his job as the backup to an UDFA in NO, wouldn't take a pay cut so they dumped him despite having to take a dead cap hit for the next 2 years, signed a 1 yr, ~$1mil contract, and currently has a 3.5 ypc this yr. (vs. 6.1 for Williams). Yes, he has experience. However, pretty much everyone (who didn't just trade away Williams) can see that he's no where near as good as he was.

The one thing I didn't factor in enough is that it appears Harbaugh is "old school" and gives veteran RB preferential treatment despite the clear talent discrepancy. He did it with Rice, Dobbins, and now Williams.

 

[BigJim®]

You're seeing what you want to see again.

This thread probably deserves a re-title: “HSG self validates his trade thread.” Not a bad trade by any means, but can we get commentary that doesn’t reference it or side door justify it? 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

This thread probably deserves a re-title: “HSG self validates his trade thread.” Not a bad trade by any means, but can we get commentary that doesn’t reference it or side door justify it? 

 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

You're seeing what you want to see again. He lost his job as the backup to an UDFA in NO, wouldn't take a pay cut so they dumped him despite having to take a dead cap hit for the next 2 years, signed a 1 yr, ~$1mil contract, and currently has a 3.5 ypc this yr. (vs. 6.1 for Williams). Yes, he has experience. However, pretty much everyone (who didn't just trade away Williams) can see that he's no where near as good as he was.

The one thing I didn't factor in enough is that it appears Harbaugh is "old school" and gives veteran RB preferential treatment despite the clear talent discrepancy. He did it with Rice, Dobbins, and now Williams.

I was right tho. 

 

[humpback]

I was right tho. 

Lol, if you say so.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Lol, if you say so.

lol - it’s right there timestamped. I told folks to sell high. I told folks it’d be RBBC from hell.  I told folks Murray wasn’t washed. I told folks Murray brought experience to the table. 

If you insist on denying reality I can’t help you. Like your continuing to wrongly claim Murray is washed when his YPC actually tends up the last 3 years. It’s right there in his stats, no subscription required. I even gave you the links. 

I mean, I tried to help you. Some folks can’t be helped though I guess. Keep it up though, it’s a good look.    

 

[Ardbeg4ever]

My mistake, I thought there might be new info on T.Williams in this thread.  

 

[Go Blue]

lol - it’s right there timestamped. I told folks to sell high. I told folks it’d be RBBC from hell.  I told folks Murray wasn’t washed. I told folks Murray brought experience to the table. 

If you insist on denying reality I can’t help you. I mean, I tried to help you. Some folks can’t be helped though I guess. Keep it up though, it’s a good look.    

So after one bad game, you have completely written off Williams? I wouldn't even say it was a bad game, just a game he wasn't used in. Why would Baltimore use their best RB to beat the Lions? Especially with their RB situation. I'm sure that's what they thought when the game started anyway. 

I'm pretty sure every single owner of any Baltimore RB knew it was going to be a RBBC. Williams averaging 6 yards per carry, while the human highlight reel Murray is averaging 3.5 yards per carry. 

I'll still take Williams over Murray all day everyday and twice on Sunday. 

Hot Sauce, you sure have replied A LOT in this thread for a guy that doesn't care about Williams. Even after you've said you were done with this thread. If Murray is better by the end of the year, I'll give you credit. But trying to give yourself credit after 3 weeks seems a bit lame. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

So after one bad game, you have completely wrote off Williams? I wouldn't even say it was a bad game, just a game he wasn't used in. Why would Baltimore use their best RB to beat the Lions? Especially with their RB situation. I'm sure that's what they thought when the game started anyway. 

I'm pretty sure every single owner of any Baltimore RB knew it was going to be a RBBC. Williams averaging 6 yards per carry, while the human highlight reel Murray is averaging 3.5 yards per carry. 

I'll still take Williams over Murray all day everyday and twice on Sunday. 

Hot Sauce, you sure have replied A LOT in this thread for a guy that doesn't care about Williams. Even after you've said you were done with this thread. If Murray is better by the end of the year, I'll give you credit. But trying to give yourself credit after 3 weeks seems a bit lame. 

No, i didn’t “completely write off Williams”.

never said I did. I continue to be fascinated that despite having a quote feature, folks continue to misrepresent what others say. 

What I specifically said was it would be RBBC from hell. I said it many times. 

I also said Murray wasn’t washed. I posted links to statistics to show that. And I said coaching would likely prefer the veteran experience over the upside rookie.I believe my exact words were “that’s what I would do if I were Harbaugh”, or something to that effect. 

Finally, I’ve complimented Williams many times both here and in a couple of the in-game topics. But also pointed out his flaws. And I specifically said to sell high.

it was all very straightforward. 

it’s really easy to win an argument when you put words into other people’s mouths. guess that’s why folks do it so often here. Like you just did. 

 

[BigJim®]

lol - it’s right there timestamped. I told folks to sell high. I told folks it’d be RBBC from hell.  

That you are so confident on being right with finality in a fluid situation is what seems off. I have no idea how this load share will look week 6. If you were a tad less fixated on back patting yourself, you'd acknowledge you don't either. You're hanging your hat on a one game trend where (a) Baltimore had only 15 non-QB carries, and (2) Williams still had the highest YPC. Maybe the trend continues and you are proven 100% right, maybe it doesn't. Let's just be honest it's fluid yet.  

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

That you are so confident on being right with finality in a fluid situation is what seems off. I have no idea how this load share will look week 6. If you were a tad less fixated on back patting yourself, you'd acknowledge you don't either. You're hanging your hat on a one game trend where (a) Baltimore had only 15 non-QB carries, and (2) Williams still had the highest YPC. Maybe the trend continues and you are proven 100% right, maybe it doesn't. Let's just be honest it's fluid yet.  

I’m not fixated on it at all.  That’s projection. I’m also not “so confident in being right” after 3 weeks. But after 3 weeks, I’m right. 

And contrary to other’s assertions I don’t care that much either.

but because so many trashed me for my opinions about this situation, I find it amusing that I was right and pointed it out. So far at least. And honestly I didn’t even come in to do that - I just opined that I was happy I sold high & people continued to pile on even though I was right. 

Sure it’s fluid.  It’s a fluid RBBC from hell with LJax likely to be the leading rusher all year, and a split between Murray & Williams, with Freeman getting carries too. Looks like Murray gets short yardage & Williams might get receptions. Or he might not. Who knows. But y’all shoulda sold high. 

Good luck with that. 

 

[humpback]

lol - it’s right there timestamped. I told folks to sell high. I told folks it’d be RBBC from hell.  I told folks Murray wasn’t washed. I told folks Murray brought experience to the table. 

If you insist on denying reality I can’t help you. Like your continuing to wrongly claim Murray is washed when his YPC actually tends up the last 3 years. It’s right there in his stats, no subscription required. I even gave you the links. 

I mean, I tried to help you. Some folks can’t be helped though I guess. Keep it up though, it’s a good look.    

Yes, luckily for me everything is still here in black and white.

Off the top of my head, here's a list of things you've been wrong about- Ravens had to run a vanilla offense in week 1 because of Williams, the entire Ravens offensive scheme, what the Ravens ask their RBs to do in pass pro and running the ball, that Murray wasn't cut due to performance, that he isn't washed and looks as good as he ever has, if there's a game to have high confidence in both RBs it was against the Lions because they were going to run like crazy (this one actually was logical, just funny how bad it ended up), and Murray's a lock for positive yards on almost every touch (more than 20% of his so far have been for 0 or negative).

Off the top of my head, here's a list of things that are still TBD- Williams was a "sell high" after week 1.

As far as Murray being washed, what on earth do his stats from the last 3 years have to do with anything? For starters, despite his "ascending" ypc (before the current year huge drop, of course), he's had at least 1 RB on his team with a higher ypc each of those years. It's almost like the O-line or system has something to do with that. More importantly, I'm talking about how he looks now, not in the past. You're on an island if you think he looks as good as he ever has, and there's tons of evidence against you- losing his job to an UDFA, terrible preseason, getting cut, numerous beat writer reports, almost everyone else's eyeball test, etc.

I get it, you want to look "smart" for trading him. You may very well end up being "right" about that, but it certainly won't be because of the incredibly flawed logic/arguments you've made to try and justify it.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Yes, luckily for me everything is still here in black and white.

Off the top of my head, here's a list of things you've been wrong about- Ravens had to run a vanilla offense in week 1 because of Williams, the entire Ravens offensive scheme, what the Ravens ask their RBs to do in pass pro and running the ball, that Murray wasn't cut due to performance, that he isn't washed and looks as good as he ever has, if there's a game to have high confidence in both RBs it was against the Lions because they were going to run like crazy (this one actually was logical, just funny how bad it ended up), and Murray's a lock for positive yards on almost every touch (more than 20% of his so far have been for 0 or negative).

Off the top of my head, here's a list of things that are still TBD- Williams was a "sell high" after week 1.

As far as Murray being washed, what on earth do his stats from the last 3 years have to do with anything? For starters, despite his "ascending" ypc (before the current year huge drop, of course), he's had at least 1 RB on his team with a higher ypc each of those years. It's almost like the O-line or system has something to do with that. More importantly, I'm talking about how he looks now, not in the past. You're on an island if you think he looks as good as he ever has, and there's tons of evidence against you- losing his job to an UDFA, terrible preseason, getting cut, numerous beat writer reports, almost everyone else's eyeball test, etc.

I get it, you want to look "smart" for trading him. You may very well end up being "right" about that, but it certainly won't be because of the incredibly flawed logic/arguments you've made to try and justify it.

That's a lot of words. The irony of you claiming I was wrong about something that you are wrong about is *chef's kiss*

Again: LAST YEAR Murray averaged his highest YPC. Last year. Not the last 3 years. He's trended up for the last 3 years, yet after a tiny sampling of meaningless preseason carries you proclaimed he's washed? Yeah ok sure pal. 

In the interest of this topic, we can agree to disagree. Have a nice day. 

 

[ahartig]

I think it’s time to give it a rest gents. Let’s see what happens the next few weeks then re-assess. 

 

[humpback]

That's a lot of words. The irony of you claiming I was wrong about something that you are wrong about is *chef's kiss*

Again: LAST YEAR Murray averaged his highest YPC. Last year. Not the last 3 years. He's trended up for the last 3 years, yet after a tiny sampling of meaningless preseason carries you proclaimed he's washed? Yeah ok sure pal. 

In the interest of this topic, we can agree to disagree. Have a nice day. 

JFC, straw man much? I never claimed Murray was washed LAST YEAR, so having his highest YPC then is completely irrelevant. It doesn't matter what he did last year, or the last 3 years- he's washed RIGHT NOW. The evidence is overwhelming, and his preseason carries is only one tiny piece of it so you can quit that nonsense too- he had terrible preseason (not just stats), demoted to 3rd string behind a JAG UDFA RB, got cut, signed for peanuts, numerous reports of him looking bad from people who actually know what they're talking about, and terrible stats this year, including the ypc you love to talk about. What evidence do you have that he's good, your "untrained eye"?

I apologize to the rest of the board for engaging again, it's pretty clear you aren't interested in a good faith discussion. Have a nice day.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

wow

 

[brewer]

Love it when a thread reminds me why I used the ignore feature years ago.

 

[humpback]

Back on topic- unfortunately Harbaugh tends to prefer veteran RBs even if it's obvious they aren't as good.  It took him a while but he eventually phased out Ingram and started using Dobbins more last year, so hopefully he does the same with Williams at some point this season.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Back on topic- unfortunately Harbaugh tends to prefer veteran RBs even if it's obvious they aren't as good.  It took him a while but he eventually phased out Ingram and started using Dobbins more last year, so hopefully he does the same with Williams at some point this season.

Williams has significantly out-snapped Murray the last three weeks - last week was just an "out of leftfield" game-plan that saw the Ravens rely on the passing game - Williams and Murray combined for 10 carries (no one saw that coming, but I'm sure some one will claims they did). With Lamar being banged up this week, I would expect the Ravens to run the ball more.

 

[jobarules]

lol - it’s right there timestamped. I told folks to sell high. I told folks it’d be RBBC from hell.  I told folks Murray wasn’t washed. I told folks Murray brought experience to the table. 

If you insist on denying reality I can’t help you. Like your continuing to wrongly claim Murray is washed when his YPC actually tends up the last 3 years. It’s right there in his stats, no subscription required. I even gave you the links. 

I mean, I tried to help you. Some folks can’t be helped though I guess. Keep it up though, it’s a good look.    

Youre acting like Murray took over the backfield. Last game both guys had under 10 carries because the Ravens threw the ball a lot more than usual. Not sure that will be the case going forward. Wouldnt shock me to see Williams get 12-15 touches this weekend and have another good game. Id much rather have Ty'Son over Chubba for the rest of the season.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Youre acting like Murray took over the backfield.

No, I’m not.

I’m acting like it’s a RBBC from hell. Consistent with what I’ve said from the beginning. 

once again, on a site that allows quotes, people continue to attempt to put words in my mouth.

Fascinating. 

A nice example of an actual straw man argument though so @humpback can learn what that is. Much appreciated. 

 

[humpback]

Williams has significantly out-snapped Murray the last three weeks - last week was just an "out of leftfield" game-plan that saw the Ravens rely on the passing game - Williams and Murray combined for 10 carries (no one saw that coming, but I'm sure some one will claims they did). With Lamar being banged up this week, I would expect the Ravens to run the ball more.

Oh I know, but unfortunately those snaps haven't lead to a lot more touches. Last week in particular he seemed almost like a decoy, he split out wide a bunch late in the game but wasn't really involved (even his 1 measly target was more of a throwaway iirc).

I'd expect them to run the ball a lot more this week as well, although like you said, pretty much everyone expected that last week and it didn't happen. Hopefully almost losing to the Lions will be a wake-up call.

 

[barackdhouse]

Williams has significantly out-snapped Murray the last three weeks - last week was just an "out of leftfield" game-plan that saw the Ravens rely on the passing game - Williams and Murray combined for 10 carries (no one saw that coming, but I'm sure some one will claims they did). With Lamar being banged up this week, I would expect the Ravens to run the ball more.

Yeah I agree. I came in to say this, and that I thought Ty'son might be a decent play this week over the likes of say Sermon for example. Now I am stepping away because this thread sucks. 

 

[Judge Smails]

This backfield is going to be worth owning. 

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Hopefully almost losing to the Lions will be a wake-up call.

Honestly, that's something that would make anyone question their life choices

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Yeah I agree. I came in to say this, and that I thought Ty'son might be a decent play this week over the likes of say Sermon for example. Now I am stepping away because this thread sucks. 

It only takes one person to ruin a thread really. Everyone just needs to let that person have his “win” and move on.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

It only takes one person to ruin a thread really. Everyone just needs to let that person have his “win” and move on.

you’re ruining it right now with this passive aggressive BS.

All I posted was that I was happy I sold high. I wasn’t the only one who said it, yet I got piled on. 

So point of fact, it took several to derail the topic, you included right here.

And no need to let me “have my win” since I was right & others, including you, were wrong. You just can’t admit it so you post this garbage.

Carry on with your holier than thou trash posting tho. It’s a good look.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Why I actually came in here: looks like everyone’s theory about Bell being washed is about to get tested:

”NFL Network's Mike Garafolo reports Le'Veon Bell could make his Ravens debut in Week 4 against the Broncos.

Bell has spent the last three weeks getting into shape on the Ravens' practice squad. His promotion would further cloud the Ravens' backfield after Latavius Murray led the team in carries last week, though Bell's role figures to be limited as the likely No. 3 back. Devonta Freeman, who's played 19 snaps in two games, could be a healthy scratch if Bell gets called up.”

if not this week, it sounds like he’s close. That should help every BAL RBs numbers to get one more mouth to feed.

 

[drunkb]

I wonder if Bell will be a headache if he doesn't get the carries that he feels that he "deserves".

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I wonder if Bell will be a headache if he doesn't get the carries that he feels that he "deserves".

I don't recall him doing it as much as people thought back in the day. 

at this point I would assume he’s been fairly humbled over the last couple of seasons, and with both Murray & Freeman being promoted ahead of him, I would expect more of a lunchbox mentality. 

He probably has a chip on his shoulder. Not sure if that’ll help with his performance, but I’m interested to see the results. Also interested to see how the touches are divided. 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I wonder if Bell will be a headache if he doesn't get the carries that he feels that he "deserves".

Either he or Freeman would be inactive. At this point he’s probably just happy to collect paychecks and not get beat up to be honest. That’s not to say he won’t be giving full effort - just saying I doubt he’ll cry for carries.

 

[jobarules]

you’re ruining it right now with this passive aggressive BS.

All I posted was that I was happy I sold high. I wasn’t the only one who said it, yet I got piled on. 

So point of fact, it took several to derail the topic, you included right here.

And no need to let me “have my win” since I was right & others, including you, were wrong. You just can’t admit it so you post this garbage.

Carry on with your holier than thou trash posting tho. It’s a good look.

Didn't you trade him for Hubbard BEFORE CMC got hurt or am I remembering incorrectly? I wouldn't call trading for a handcuff as selling high.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Didn't you trade him for Hubbard BEFORE CMC got hurt or am I remembering incorrectly? I wouldn't call trading for a handcuff as selling high.

I did. And to me, that was selling high - no one in my league believed he’d be worth more & the dude who drafted Chubba took him in the 14th if an IDP league, so he had draft sunk costs involved - and since I’m the CMC owner he’s worth more to me. 

Maybe it’ll make more sense now because context matters. 

Also I wouldn’t have been able to acquire after CMC went down because Williams put up the stinker & Chubba’s value skyrocketed 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Looks like Baltimore now has a 4-headed committee after all. 

Bell promoted & they’re holding Bateman out another week. 

Either he or Freeman would be inactive.

This post. aged like 3-day old fish. 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Looks like Baltimore now has a 4-headed committee after all. 

Bell promoted & they’re holding Bateman out another week. 

This post. aged like 3-day old fish. 

I was talking active roster on game days. I don’t think all four can be active game days. I honestly don’t know, but I don’t imagine Bell, Freeman or Murray play special teams so I don’t think they’ll all be active game days. I’ll be honest, I don’t know who will be or not.

 

[Scooby1974]

This is a mess for sure. Need Williams to get his act together to match his brain with his physical gifts.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I was talking active roster on game days. I don’t think all four can be active game days. I honestly don’t know, but I don’t imagine Bell, Freeman or Murray play special teams so I don’t think they’ll all be active game days. I’ll be honest, I don’t know who will be or not.

We’ll find out tomorrow I guess. 

 

[barackdhouse]

Maybe Williams will be the game day inactive. I am benching him in the couple spots I had previously thought about starting him. Not into it. 

 

[wgoldsph]

This is a mess for sure. Need Williams to get his act together to match his brain with his physical gifts.

What's wrong with his brain?

 

[Scooby1974]

What's wrong with his brain?

It's inexperienced

 

[tigerz]

Getting cold feet. Gotten so bad I’m probably starting Tonyan over him in full ppr. Was even considering djax would be better considering he has more boom and equal bust as Tyson. Starting Harris and sermon over him but this is a terrible week. Wouldn’t be surprised if I get chopped in the survivor league.

 

[ahartig]

Bad matchup. I wouldn’t start him either. Bell active. Good week to see how it all shakes out.

guaranteed he goes off for 100+ and 2 TDs on everyone’s bench. 

 

[tigerz]

Bad matchup. I wouldn’t start him either. Bell active. Good week to see how it all shakes out.

guaranteed he goes off for 100+ and 2 TDs on everyone’s bench. 

Honestly, before this Bell stuff I thought if he got volume he might go off as I'm not sure if Denver really has been tested.

Week 1 - Giants with barkley coming off injuries so he didn't get much volume.

Week 2 - Jaguars only ran James Robinson 11 times but he had 47 yards. He may have hit 100 yards rushing if they gave him volume.

Week 3 - Jets... this isn't even a real NFL offense.

However, if there's even talk of him not being activated then I don't know how confident you can be in him getting any sort of volume so last week's floor still applies with limited upside if they are testing Bell.

 

[wgoldsph]

It's inexperienced

He's a rb.   The position hasn't changed since hs and college.  Or training camp for that matter.  Unless the coaches start talking about him having trouble with assignments then he's fine.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

However, if there's even talk of him not being activated then

Has there been other that some one saying it a few posts up? 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

guaranteed he goes off for 100+ and 2 TDs on everyone’s bench. 

This is the way.

You left out, “then next week lays an egg in everyone’s confidently set lineup”. 

 

 

[Scooby1974]

He's a rb.   The position hasn't changed since hs and college.  Or training camp for that matter.  Unless the coaches start talking about him having trouble with assignments then he's fine.

Do you really think that running backs don't develop in the pros? If so, tell Harbaugh and front offices everywhere to fire all running back coaches NOW. Give the money to youth football so Ty'son could have been invested in more at the Pee-wee level since it's all over now.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Has there been other that some one saying it a few posts up? 

this morning I saw this on CBS: 

“Ravens' Ty'Son Williams: Possible healthy scratch?

15 hrs ago | 

Williams could be a healthy inactive Sunday against the Broncos after the team called up Le'Veon Bell from the practice squad, Jeff Zrebiec of The Athleticreports.

It's highly unlikely the Ravens keep four running backs active Sunday, and while Zrebiec suggested Devonta Freeman seems like the first choice to sit, offensive coordinator Greg Roman didn't exactly give a ringing endorsement of Williams in post-game reports last week. The muddled depth chart is certainly a complicating issue for fantasy managers given Latavius Murray has continued to siphon off carries (seven for 28 last week), and it doesn't appear things will get any easier against a capable Broncos run defense.”

So obviously it’s been mentioned. Anyone with google could have verified that. But you do you.  

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Again with the passive aggressive trolling.

I actually wasn’t the one who said that Ty’son had a possibility of being inactive. I read it in here fir the first time.

But this morning I saw this on CBS: 

“Ravens' Ty'Son Williams: Possible healthy scratch?

15 hrs ago | 

Williams could be a healthy inactive Sunday against the Broncos after the team called up Le'Veon Bell from the practice squad, Jeff Zrebiec of The Athleticreports.

It's highly unlikely the Ravens keep four running backs active Sunday, and while Zrebiec suggested Devonta Freeman seems like the first choice to sit, offensive coordinator Greg Roman didn't exactly give a ringing endorsement of Williams in post-game reports last week. The muddled depth chart is certainly a complicating issue for fantasy managers given Latavius Murray has continued to siphon off carries (seven for 28 last week), and it doesn't appear things will get any easier against a capable Broncos run defense.”

Troll on, troll. It’s what you do best.  

That’s trolling? It was a legit statement.

I wasn’t even talking about you - some one else mentioned it so I pointed out there’s not been any actual statement since the guy I responded to ran with it.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

That’s trolling? It was a legit statement.

I wasn’t even talking about you - some one else mentioned it so I pointed out there’s not been any actual statement since the guy I responded to ran with it.

Oh, sorry - I’m so used to you passive aggressively mentioning me in here that I assumed you were doing it again. 

I edited my post. Maybe you should mention specific names in the future so I don’t assume you’re doing that whole passive-aggressive thing again.