RB Zach Charbonnet, SEA (2 Viewers)

[jm192]

I think they brought in Charbonnet to add RB depth, but I also believe they are going to be disappointed with Charbonnet's production.

That being said, he is a good pass blocker.

What a team spends to draft a player says something about intentions.

I have a hard time thinking they spent a 2nd round pick on "depth" that they don't intend to use a decent amount.

He may underperform. Walker may blow his socks off. But I don't think they spent a 2nd thinking "We got our backup who only touches the ball if Walker gets hurt."

Teams are getting production out of 5th round RB's--look at Pierce and even Michael Carter a few years ago. Hunt, Zeke, and Fournette still don't have teams. If they just wanted a depth piece, there were a lot of ways to do it that didn't cost a 2nd round draft pick

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Ameer Abdullah went second round in 2015. Has he been anything BUT a depth piece in his career? How about Giovani Bernard in 2013?

That’s not why they were drafted - in fact Gio did start early in his career. It just became obvious those guys were role players as their career progressed. So sure Charbonet could bust or never be more than a role player but that will have zero to do with Gio Bernard or Ameer Abdullah.
Some one can just as easily list two second round RBs that became studs. Both lists would be equally non-informative.

 

[smbkrypt24]

Ameer Abdullah went second round in 2015. Has he been anything BUT a depth piece in his career? How about Giovani Bernard in 2013?

That’s not why they were drafted - in fact Gio did start early in his career. It just became obvious those guys were role players as their career progressed. So sure Charbonet could bust or never be more than a role player but that will have zero to do with Gio Bernard or Ameer Abdullah.
Some one can just as easily list two second round RBs that became studs. Both lists would be equally non-informative.

I actually looked into 2nd round RBs in the last 10 years. I found there were both depth pieces and starters drafted there. I didn't find it pointed to any set direction.

 

[jm192]

Ameer Abdullah went second round in 2015. Has he been anything BUT a depth piece in his career? How about Giovani Bernard in 2013?

That’s not why they were drafted - in fact Gio did start early in his career. It just became obvious those guys were role players as their career progressed. So sure Charbonet could bust or never be more than a role player but that will have zero to do with Gio Bernard or Ameer Abdullah.
Some one can just as easily list two second round RBs that became studs. Both lists would be equally non-informative.

I actually looked into 2nd round RBs in the last 10 years. I found there were both depth pieces and starters drafted there. I didn't find it pointed to any set direction.

But...did any of those teams draft RB's thinking they would be career backups?

If you're playing Dynasty Fantasy Football--you're always talking about how draft capital matters. Second Round capital for a RB is very good. And in general it speaks to the idea that the team intends to use the player.

Now a 2nd round RB may be a gigantic bust and never pan out. But I think if you look back at the time they were drafted--people thought all the 2nd round RB's were going to matter.

 

[smbkrypt24]

Ameer Abdullah went second round in 2015. Has he been anything BUT a depth piece in his career? How about Giovani Bernard in 2013?

That’s not why they were drafted - in fact Gio did start early in his career. It just became obvious those guys were role players as their career progressed. So sure Charbonet could bust or never be more than a role player but that will have zero to do with Gio Bernard or Ameer Abdullah.
Some one can just as easily list two second round RBs that became studs. Both lists would be equally non-informative.

I actually looked into 2nd round RBs in the last 10 years. I found there were both depth pieces and starters drafted there. I didn't find it pointed to any set direction.

But...did any of those teams draft RB's thinking they would be career backups?

If you're playing Dynasty Fantasy Football--you're always talking about how draft capital matters. Second Round capital for a RB is very good. And in general it speaks to the idea that the team intends to use the player.

Now a 2nd round RB may be a gigantic bust and never pan out. But I think if you look back at the time they were drafted--people thought all the 2nd round RB's were going to matter.

I don't think you ever think you are drafting a career backup. You could draft with the idea they compliment your team well, cheap contract, best player on board....but the teams shouldn't hope the player isn't great.
The last 5 years look more like drafted to be the starter, but after that such mixed results.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Ameer Abdullah went second round in 2015. Has he been anything BUT a depth piece in his career? How about Giovani Bernard in 2013?

That’s not why they were drafted - in fact Gio did start early in his career. It just became obvious those guys were role players as their career progressed. So sure Charbonet could bust or never be more than a role player but that will have zero to do with Gio Bernard or Ameer Abdullah.
Some one can just as easily list two second round RBs that became studs. Both lists would be equally non-informative.

I actually looked into 2nd round RBs in the last 10 years. I found there were both depth pieces and starters drafted there. I didn't find it pointed to any set direction.

I’m not sure the plan is for “just depth” but sometimes it works out that way.

I mean I could say the Jets have taken a bunch of WRs in the second round and they’ve all been busts. I’m guessing the plan during those drafts wasn’t to draft players in Round 2 that would be inactive on game day.

 

[smbkrypt24]

Ameer Abdullah went second round in 2015. Has he been anything BUT a depth piece in his career? How about Giovani Bernard in 2013?

That’s not why they were drafted - in fact Gio did start early in his career. It just became obvious those guys were role players as their career progressed. So sure Charbonet could bust or never be more than a role player but that will have zero to do with Gio Bernard or Ameer Abdullah.
Some one can just as easily list two second round RBs that became studs. Both lists would be equally non-informative.

I actually looked into 2nd round RBs in the last 10 years. I found there were both depth pieces and starters drafted there. I didn't find it pointed to any set direction.

I’m not sure the plan is for “just depth” but sometimes it works out that way.

I mean I could say the Jets have taken a bunch of WRs in the second round and they’ve all been busts. I’m guessing the plan during those drafts wasn’t to draft players in Round 2 that would be inactive on game day.

Completely agree. My word choice may be off. My only point was mixed results there. A team drafting 2nd round RBs 2 consecutive years is unique, so perhaps basing it off the past draft results also isn't the best strategy...especially when Walker (first RB drafted) had a good rookie year.

 

[Payne]

That Charbonnet has an injured shoulder doesn’t change that. It might delay the inevitable if the injury is worse than expected, but that timeshare is coming.

ETA: the last time Walker had a “little groin thing” he ended up having hernia surgery the next day,

Yeah, right now Walker, as an incumbent, could probably afford to lose practice time more than a rookie like Charbonet - but I'm not sure how either player being hurt already is a good thing for that player and since both are injured it's not really necessarily a good thing for the competition either.

A few reports make it seem like the injury to Walker isn't bad. Sounds like more of a precaution.

If you’re taking anything Pete “Pollyanna” Carroll says without huge grains of salt, you should probably go look at his history of commenting on injuries.

That did not come from Pete. Plenty of sources have said his injury is not serious.

 

[Payne]

Also it was KW3’s rookie season, dude gets no pass for not being perfect? I just don’t get it.

No one’s saying he had to be perfect.

Not one of us have made that statement.

But if he was better in short yardage; better at not having 0 or negative rushing plays; better in the receiving game, Seattle wouldn’t have spent a 2nd on Charbonnet.

I will never, ever be convinced that sort of draft capital would ever be spent by a team on a “depth” pick.
Cmon

Why Zach Charbonnet will wind up starting for Seahawks in 2023

Seahawks 90-Man Countdown: RB Zach Charbonnet - Feature Back?

The disrespect to Walker this off-season is going to be discussed for years to come. People are forgetting how talented he is.

It's not disrespect. He was statically bad at getting stuffed for no gains, short yardage, not the best receiver...all stuff Charb is good at. If both healthy there is going to be some type of split.

And of course there is going to be a split. Nobody is arguing that.

Just don't be surprised if it's with McIntosh and Charbs is more rb3 on this team.

Thank you. I enjoy a good afternoon chuckle.

The notion that the Seahawks spent a 2nd round pick on Charbs to not actually fill a glaring need is what’s humorous to me.

Walker was factually, statistically one of the worst situational RB in the league, bottom 5 in efficiency & expected yards. He was not a good short yardage back, and not a great receiver.

Which is why they spent that 2nd on Charbonnet.

That Charbonnet has an injured shoulder doesn’t change that. It might delay the inevitable if the injury is worse than expected, but that timeshare is coming.

ETA: the last time Walker had a “little groin thing” he ended up having hernia surgery the next day, so he’s not exactly either right now.

I will ask this for maybe the 100th time, can you say Charbs would have been any better last year behind that line? The answer is you can't. In fact, he may have been worse. That is also a fact.

And no, that is not why they spent a 2nd rounder on Charb. It's because they had a need for depth behind Walker. If they LOVED Charb, why didn't they take him with their first 2nd round pick?

And last time Walker had "a little groin thing" he rushed for over 1,000 yards as a rookie and averaged 4.6 yards per carry.

Here’s the thing about dynasty…it requires you to piece things together without “knowing” everything. Unless you don’t want to be any good at it.

And you chose not to answer the question I see.

 

[Payne]

Also it was KW3’s rookie season, dude gets no pass for not being perfect? I just don’t get it.

No one’s saying he had to be perfect.

Not one of us have made that statement.

But if he was better in short yardage; better at not having 0 or negative rushing plays; better in the receiving game, Seattle wouldn’t have spent a 2nd on Charbonnet.

I will never, ever be convinced that sort of draft capital would ever be spent by a team on a “depth” pick.
Cmon

No but it seems to be the standard he’s being held up to. Dude was sensational as a rookie and will absolutely assuredly improve on his weaknesses in year 2.

And while your draft capital argument holds water for the vast majority of head coaches and general managers in the league it simply doesn’t for Seattle. They have no compunction about adding to the running back room at any time, regardless of who they have on the field.

But the fact is he was inefficient and had way too many plays of 0 or negative yards.

Again, not saying, he hast to be perfect, but he needed to be better than he was. But he wasn’t, so the Seahawks drafted someone who could do those things better than he could.

This doesn’t seem that complicated, nor is it in any way an insult to Walker. It is what it is.

You lose ALL credibility when you make a comment like this. That is your opinion. Nothing more. Don't question the intelligence by saying doesn't seem complicated".
You are spewing opinions as facts on here. You can't do that. Truth is, nobody knows at this point.

Would Charbs have been better last year? Nobody can answer that. So please stop saying he would have been.

You want facts? Walker rushed for over 1,000 yards as a rookie. You're right.....it's not that complicated.

 

[Payne]

Walker was factually, statistically one of the worst situational RB in the league, bottom 5 in efficiency & expected yards. He was not a good short yardage back, and not a great receiver.

A) those stats don't account for god awful line play, efficiency suffers when the O line sucks

B) It took the Seahawks over half a season to realize that they should be man blocking not zone blocking for Walker, and then all of sudden efficiency improved once they increased man blocking schemes...which is the only blocking Walker rushed with in college

C) he was a rookie and the vast majority of great RBs improve year 2, assuming he can't improve on any perceived weaknesses seems very odd to me

D) the O Line is improved so Walker's efficiency should improve

I'm not sure how you could have watched Walker last year and not conclude he is one of the best pure runners in the game.

Stop spewing facts!

 

[Payne]

I guess you have to have a flag planted on a situation that nobody could possibly know because it's all in the GM and Pete Carroll's heads what they're going to do with these guys. Anybody claiming they know can't possibly know.

Not that you guys are doing that. You're making educated guesses. But where there's certitude creeping in, there seems to be fallacious thinking.

Agree.

To come here and say Charbs is better at things than Walker is purely an opinion.

What isn't a "guess" is what Walker did last year in his rookie season. That cannot be debated.

 

[The Finist]

@Hot Sauce Guy I appreciate your takes in these Seattle RB threads. As a Walker holder and member of the K9 fan club my first instinct is to write you off as a hater since you are a Niners fan and you are secretly afraid of Walker running wild on your team and keeping you out of the playoffs . Then I let my emotions simmer down and appreciate the input, even if I disagree with your assessment of Walker. It is good to have arguments on both sides of a player to help us look more objectively at the situation. I tend to look at all of my guys through the rosiest of glasses.

Really I feel like he says nothing. Just comments a lot.

Also it was KW3’s rookie season, dude gets no pass for not being perfect? I just don’t get it.

No one’s saying he had to be perfect.

Not one of us have made that statement.

But if he was better in short yardage; better at not having 0 or negative rushing plays; better in the receiving game, Seattle wouldn’t have spent a 2nd on Charbonnet.

I will never, ever be convinced that sort of draft capital would ever be spent by a team on a “depth” pick.
Cmon

No but it seems to be the standard he’s being held up to. Dude was sensational as a rookie and will absolutely assuredly improve on his weaknesses in year 2.

And while your draft capital argument holds water for the vast majority of head coaches and general managers in the league it simply doesn’t for Seattle. They have no compunction about adding to the running back room at any time, regardless of who they have on the field.

But the fact is he was inefficient and had way too many plays of 0 or negative yards.

Again, not saying, he hast to be perfect, but he needed to be better than he was. But he wasn’t, so the Seahawks drafted someone who could do those things better than he could.

This doesn’t seem that complicated, nor is it in any way an insult to Walker. It is what it is.

Sea wanted depth. They threw a bunch at the wall just in the wrong order. Charbs is meat puppet who did well in chip Kelly's known cfb offensive system against a weak pac10.
GL to all the charb truthers it's hilarious to sharks

I’m hardly a “Charbs truther”

I have zero shares across 4 leagues.

Protip: people who call themselves sharks and attempt to speak for others, aren’t.

Isn't that what you did when telling us why sea drafted charbs?


Real sharks know. GL

I don’t know what you mean. I have an opinion about it & expressed it. If you wanna make it weird, I guess we’re done here.

Best of luck to you this upcoming season.

Good luck to you this year as well. I was just stating my opinions also.

So what was your opinion? All I see is mostly ambiguous posts. There are so many of them it's hard to keep up. I may have actually missed your main points.

I gathered Walker has holes in his game. What 21 year old running back doesn't?
I gathered you love Walker. I gather you like charbs.

What kind of split are you seeing here? Any hot takes? Best guesses?

 

[Boston]

Walker was a second-round pick and he looked good last year...Charbs was a second-round pick this year and we haven't seen him play yet...he could be better, worse or on par with Walker...I don't believe he was drafted that high to not be involved but until we see him actually play everyone is guessing...I will add as a Kenny McIntosh fan (maybe the only one left on the board) I fully expect him to have a James White type role and have it be just big enough to be another nuisance to this backfield.

 

[rockaction]

I will add as a Kenny McIntosh fan (maybe the only one left on the board)

I think you are, but it wouldn't be the first time that what seemed like the entire board was saying wound up wrong.

Seattle, to get back to a broader point, really looked at their running back room, found it intrinsic to their success but wanting, and therefore remedied it. It sounds like they have their RB1 and RB2 (how they'll be deployed is the 25,000 dollar question) and their change-of-pace back (who ironically doesn't change the pace in the positive sense, but that's my opinion). They seem to have solidified their room over Alex Collins/Deejay Dallas as their back-ups to Chris Carson and others.

 

[Boston]

I will add as a Kenny McIntosh fan (maybe the only one left on the board)

I think you are, but it wouldn't be the first time that what seemed like the entire board was saying wound up wrong.

Seattle, to get back to a broader point, really looked at their running back room, found it intrinsic to their success but wanting, and therefore remedied it. It sounds like they have their RB1 and RB2 (how they'll be deployed is the 25,000 dollar question) and their change-of-pace back (who ironically doesn't change the pace in the positive sense, but that's my opinion). They seem to have solidified their room over Alex Collins/Deejay Dallas as their back-ups to Chris Carson and others.

Seattle is playing it smart in today's NFL...get some good, young, cheap RBs...try to get about 4 years or so out of each and repeat it in 3-4 more years...smart business for how today's NFL is set up....as for Kenny Mac...we'll see...I think he plays just like he did at Georgia and carves out a nice passing down role that will become a consistent part of this offense.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Really I feel like he says nothing. Just comments a lot.

I’ll be sure to never interact with you again then.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

guessing...I will add as a Kenny McIntosh fan (maybe the only one left on the board) I fully expect him to have a James White type role and have it be just big enough to be another nuisance to this backfield.

I just drafted him in a rookie draft of a new start-up league & love his potential.

With both Walker & Charbs missing time, I expect him to get some valuable reps/PT in camp.

I guess that makes 2 KM fans left on the board.

 

[FBG Moderator]

Really I feel like he says nothing. Just comments a lot.

Keep it about the players and not shots at other posters.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

But...did any of those teams draft RB's thinking they would be career backups?

If you're playing Dynasty Fantasy Football--you're always talking about how draft capital matters. Second Round capital for a RB is very good. And in general it speaks to the idea that the team intends to use the player.

Now a 2nd round RB may be a gigantic bust and never pan out. But I think if you look back at the time they were drafted--people thought all the 2nd round RB's were going to matter.

Perfectly stated. Nice to see the topic coming back to reality.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

You lose ALL credibility when you make a comment like this

I have plenty of credibility, thanks. It’s not your job to assess, regardless.

. That is your opinion. Nothing more

Same goes for literally anyone on this forum. Yours included.

 

[barackdhouse]

This is unreadable. And nowhere is there really any clue whatsoever as to Charb's shoulder issue. I assume because we simply don't know anything more at this point.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

And nowhere is there really any clue whatsoever as to Charb's shoulder issue. I assume because we simply don't know anything more at this point.

Nothing has been reported other than he's "out indefinitely". That doesn't sound so great to me, but it doesn't mean much, necessarily either. Hopefully within a week or two it's more clear.
If there's no surgery on it, I don't think it's that big of a concern.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I guess you have to have a flag planted on a situation that nobody could possibly know because it's all in the GM and Pete Carroll's heads what they're going to do with these guys. Anybody claiming they know can't possibly know.

Not that you guys are doing that. You're making educated guesses. But where there's certitude creeping in, there seems to be fallacious thinking.

I agree with this actually.

The only thing I’m certain of is that KW was among the worst in the league in short yardage, & expected yardage situations.

He had a lot of incredible burst runs, but was stuffed for no gain or at a loss - a stat you don’t want a RB to be a league leader in.

I’m certain of it because it’s been vetted based on his actual play.

Could other factors be involved like OL play, QB play, etc? Of course - it’s a team sport.

But based on the actual deficiencies to KW’s game, it is my guess that the Seahawks took ZC to help improve at areas they perceived as needing improvement.

Which, historically speaking, (based on draft capital & other factors) seems like a fairly safe assumption. But you’re right - it’s not a certainty. More Occam’s razor sort of stuff.

I’ll be as interested as anyone in how the KW/ZC split works out, and whether it validates my theories, or not. If not I’ll step up and eat crow. I wonder if others in here who are so certain of the opposite will do the same?

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Teams are getting production out of 5th round RB's--look at Pierce and even Michael Carter a few years ago. Hunt, Zeke, and Fournette still don't have teams. If they just wanted a depth piece, there were a lot of ways to do it that didn't cost a 2nd round draft pick

Pacheco as a 7th rounder is also a good example.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Nothing has been reported other than he's "out indefinitely". That doesn't sound so great to me, but it doesn't mean much, necessarily either. Hopefully within a week or two it's more clear.
If there's no surgery on it, I don't think it's that big of a concern.

Carroll said that it wasn’t from a contact injury. That it “crept up on him”

Source

 

[barackdhouse]

Teams are getting production out of 5th round RB's--look at Pierce and even Michael Carter a few years ago. Hunt, Zeke, and Fournette still don't have teams. If they just wanted a depth piece, there were a lot of ways to do it that didn't cost a 2nd round draft pick

Pacheco as a 7th rounder is also a good example.

The fact that RBs are seemingly completely replaceable in the NFL, and that these guys can be had in the later rounds or even UDFA, only strengthens the argument, IMHO, that when a club spends a 2nd rounder on one, they absolutely 100% intend to use them heavily. But *heavily* is doing a lot of lifting there - meaning that in a run first RBBC it still qualifies. I really don't think it is an indication of how they feel about Walker one way or the other. It means they really, really like Charb, but as always it is up to the player to actually live up to the opportunity, etc.

 

[barackdhouse]

Nothing has been reported other than he's "out indefinitely". That doesn't sound so great to me, but it doesn't mean much, necessarily either. Hopefully within a week or two it's more clear.
If there's no surgery on it, I don't think it's that big of a concern.

Carroll said that it wasn’t from a contact injury. That it “crept up on him”

Source

Yeah it's weird, the way I heard it was that he just suddenly felt something in his shoulder. It's very mysterious and he is one of my highest targeted RBs in every format this year.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

That it “crept up on him”

Yeah I'm not sure what that means - but I guess "non-contact" injury in this situation isn't a bad thing.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Teams are getting production out of 5th round RB's--look at Pierce and even Michael Carter a few years ago. Hunt, Zeke, and Fournette still don't have teams. If they just wanted a depth piece, there were a lot of ways to do it that didn't cost a 2nd round draft pick

Pacheco as a 7th rounder is also a good example.

The fact that RBs are seemingly completely replaceable in the NFL, and that these guys can be had in the later rounds or even UDFA, only strengthens the argument, IMHO, that when a club spends a 2nd rounder on one, they absolutely 100% intend to use them heavily. But *heavily* is doing a lot of lifting there - meaning that in a run first RBBC it still qualifies. I really don't think it is an indication of how they feel about Walker one way or the other. It means they really, really like Charb, but as always it is up to the player to actually live up to the opportunity, etc.

Exactly this.

Most have opined (myself included) that it is likely to be a RBBC, playing to each RBs strengths.

The ferocity with which some argue against this pretty reasonable prediction is a bit baffling to me.

I’m certainly not rooting against Walker when I point out that he had holes in his game, and I’m also not pro Charbs by suggesting he’ll have a big role based on draft capital.

It all seems like FF 101 to me, but I acknowledge that others have different lived experiences.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Yeah I'm not sure what that means - but I guess "non-contact" injury in this situation isn't a bad thing.

Right - knee? Bad. Shoulder? Eh. Who knows.

Dude did have a lot of touches in college. Maybe he’s dealing with a labrum or rotator cuff issue.

That said, shoulder injuries can be killers for RB, so for the Seahawks sake (again, I assume he’s part of their offensive plan) I hope it’s nothing too significant.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I really don't think it is an indication of how they feel about Walker one way or the other.

I agree with this, but a lot of Walker owners seem to get overly defensive if you even suggest this could be a 60/40 split in Walker's favor. In that situation both should have fantasy value especially if Charbs sees the valuable 3rd down and GL work, which seems realistic based on skill sets.

I do not think they drafted Charbonet because they didn't like Walker and wanted to replace him (I think Walker remains the starter), but I also feel its "sticking your head in the sand" for a Walker owner trying to pretend the pick was solely for depth and Charbonet won't be used other than to spell Walker for one or two series per half. I think this is a true RBBC with Walker leading the way but Charbs maintaining fantasy value given his role.

 

[zamboni]

Teams are getting production out of 5th round RB's--look at Pierce and even Michael Carter a few years ago. Hunt, Zeke, and Fournette still don't have teams. If they just wanted a depth piece, there were a lot of ways to do it that didn't cost a 2nd round draft pick

Pacheco as a 7th rounder is also a good example.

The fact that RBs are seemingly completely replaceable in the NFL, and that these guys can be had in the later rounds or even UDFA, only strengthens the argument, IMHO, that when a club spends a 2nd rounder on one, they absolutely 100% intend to use them heavily. But *heavily* is doing a lot of lifting there - meaning that in a run first RBBC it still qualifies. I really don't think it is an indication of how they feel about Walker one way or the other. It means they really, really like Charb, but as always it is up to the player to actually live up to the opportunity, etc.

I agree for the most part, but Seattle/Carroll is just a bit different when it comes to drafting RBs. Both Walker and Charbonnet were both 2nd rounders - they just like them some RBs. But good on Pete that he's always treated the position as a meritocracy and draft capital hasn't always mattered. Recall that Penny was sitting on the bench for some time by the much later drafted Chris Carson. If one of Walker/Charbonnet shines over the other, they'll probably get the bulk of playing time.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

That said, shoulder injuries can be killers for RB

Yes, which is why "out indefinitely" doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy about his early season prospects.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Would love for one of the 2 young RBs to seize control but right now, Charbonnet is losing time in his rookie training camp, they just paid Geno Smith a small fortune to play QB this year and likely next, understanding that play book and since he has good hands you want him in there on passing situations but if he can't prove he can pick up a blitz, not many play calls would go his way.

I'm not pumping Walker's stock, I believe a lot of the snippets posters have inserted about the flaws in Walker but he did produce well as a Rookie and I find it hard to believe he would be relegated to warming the bench if he's healthy.

Trying to keep an open mind but I don't like ZC missing camp time right now, think it hurts him early in the season
Might be a guy I look to acquire after he doesn't come flying out of the gates.
At the same time I see he is a very late RD draft selection in many redrafts going on right now, we're not talking big investment here.
Hope he makes it back fast and can start working with some of the starters.

 

[zamboni]

Trying to keep an open mind but I don't like ZC missing camp time right now, think it hurts him early in the season might be a guy I look to acquire after he doesn't come flying out of the gates.

Yes, reminds me of the aforementioned Penny/Carson debate when Penny fell way behind because IIRC, he was out of shape in camp. ZC's issue obviously isn't being out of shape, but behind is behind. If he doesn't get back soon, it will require some patience. Could pay off down the line though for sure.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Recall that Penny was sitting on the bench for some time by the much later drafted Chris Carson

Much of that was health-related though and not the outcome of a meritocracy. I had both rostered for a while, so I followed the situation intimately.

When healthy, Penny actually out-produced Carson a few times. It’s just that he never stayed healthy.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

and I find it hard to believe he would be relegated to warming the bench if he's healthy.

No one is suggesting this though.

 

[zamboni]

Recall that Penny was sitting on the bench for some time by the much later drafted Chris Carson

Much of that was health-related though and not the outcome of a meritocracy. I had both rostered for a while, so I followed the situation intimately.

When healthy, Penny actually out-produced Carson a few times. It’s just that he never stayed healthy.

Fair point - guess I remembered wrong. Thought Penny came into camp as a rookie out of shape and his injuries came later.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Thought Penny came into camp as a rookie out of shape and his injuries came later.

IIRC both things are true.

 

[Payne]

You lose ALL credibility when you make a comment like this

I have plenty of credibility, thanks. It’s not your job to assess, regardless.

. That is your opinion. Nothing more

Same goes for literally anyone on this forum. Yours included.

"Again, not saying, he hast to be perfect, but he needed to be better than he was. But he wasn’t, so the Seahawks drafted someone who could do those things better than he could."

The statement in bold is written as a fact and it's not. It's your opinion. Nobody knows.
What Walker did last year is FACT.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

You lose ALL credibility when you make a comment like this

I have plenty of credibility, thanks. It’s not your job to assess, regardless.

. That is your opinion. Nothing more

Same goes for literally anyone on this forum. Yours included.

"Again, not saying, he hast to be perfect, but he needed to be better than he was. But he wasn’t, so the Seahawks drafted someone who could do those things better than he could."

The statement in bold is written as a fact and it's not. It's your opinion. Nobody knows.
What Walker did last year is FACT.

Ok, whatever you say. I see it as me expressing an opinion. Clearly you’re reading into things, so I guess good luck with that.

Enjoy your day. I’m done interacting with you.

 

[Payne]

I really don't think it is an indication of how they feel about Walker one way or the other.

I agree with this, but a lot of Walker owners seem to get overly defensive if you even suggest this could be a 60/40 split in Walker's favor. In that situation both should have fantasy value especially if Charbs sees the valuable 3rd down and GL work, which seems realistic based on skill sets.

I do not think they drafted Charbonet because they didn't like Walker and wanted to replace him (I think Walker remains the starter), but I also feel its "sticking your head in the sand" for a Walker owner trying to pretend the pick was solely for depth and Charbonet won't be used other than to spell Walker for one or two series per half. I think this is a true RBBC with Walker leading the way but Charbs maintaining fantasy value given his role.

Ok, let's do this.

Over the last 10 years Seattle has averaged 461 rush attempts a season. Give Walker 60%. That is 276 carries @ his 4.6 average from 2022.
That's 1,272 yards. Would have been 5th highest last year.

 

[Weebs210]

You lose ALL credibility when you make a comment like this

I have plenty of credibility, thanks. It’s not your job to assess, regardless.

. That is your opinion. Nothing more

Same goes for literally anyone on this forum. Yours included.

"Again, not saying, he hast to be perfect, but he needed to be better than he was. But he wasn’t, so the Seahawks drafted someone who could do those things better than he could."

The statement in bold is written as a fact and it's not. It's your opinion. Nobody knows.
What Walker did last year is FACT.

Right it is a fact he was atrocious in all the categories that Charb excelled in during his college career.

Edit: talking about short yardage, getting stuffed for 0 gain not his overall play.

 

[Payne]

Trying to keep an open mind but I don't like ZC missing camp time right now, think it hurts him early in the season might be a guy I look to acquire after he doesn't come flying out of the gates.

Yes, reminds me of the aforementioned Penny/Carson debate when Penny fell way behind because IIRC, he was out of shape in camp. ZC's issue obviously isn't being out of shape, but behind is behind. If he doesn't get back soon, it will require some patience. Could pay off down the line though for sure.

If Walker gets hurt, Charb would be a league winner.

 

[Payne]

You lose ALL credibility when you make a comment like this

I have plenty of credibility, thanks. It’s not your job to assess, regardless.

. That is your opinion. Nothing more

Same goes for literally anyone on this forum. Yours included.

"Again, not saying, he hast to be perfect, but he needed to be better than he was. But he wasn’t, so the Seahawks drafted someone who could do those things better than he could."

The statement in bold is written as a fact and it's not. It's your opinion. Nobody knows.
What Walker did last year is FACT.

Ok, whatever you say. I see it as me expressing an opinion. Clearly you’re reading into things, so I guess good luck with that.

Enjoy your day. I’m done interacting with you.

You lose ALL credibility when you make a comment like this

I have plenty of credibility, thanks. It’s not your job to assess, regardless.

. That is your opinion. Nothing more

Same goes for literally anyone on this forum. Yours included.

"Again, not saying, he hast to be perfect, but he needed to be better than he was. But he wasn’t, so the Seahawks drafted someone who could do those things better than he could."

The statement in bold is written as a fact and it's not. It's your opinion. Nobody knows.
What Walker did last year is FACT.

Right it is a fact he was atrocious in all the categories that Charb excelled in during his college career.

You can't be serious. Here is Walkers 2021 MSU stat line since you must have missed it.

Rushing Statistics​

Rushing Statistics

Season	GP	ATT	YDS	TD	Long	AVG/A	AVG/G
2021	12	263	1636	18	94	6.2	136.3
Total	12	263	1636	18	94	6.2	136.3

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Right it is a fact he was atrocious in all the categories that Charb excelled in during his college career.

Edit: talking about short yardage, getting stuffed for 0 gain not his overall play.

Correct!

It’s almost as if we have stats to back that up.

Almost as if…

 

[Payne]

You lose ALL credibility when you make a comment like this

I have plenty of credibility, thanks. It’s not your job to assess, regardless.

. That is your opinion. Nothing more

Same goes for literally anyone on this forum. Yours included.

"Again, not saying, he hast to be perfect, but he needed to be better than he was. But he wasn’t, so the Seahawks drafted someone who could do those things better than he could."

The statement in bold is written as a fact and it's not. It's your opinion. Nobody knows.
What Walker did last year is FACT.

Ok, whatever you say. I see it as me expressing an opinion. Clearly you’re reading into things, so I guess good luck with that.

Enjoy your day. I’m done interacting with you.

Truth is nobody knows how this will play out. Nobody knows how much better (or worse) Charbs would have been if he were in the same situation as Walker last year.

What we do know are the numbers Walker put up in college (apparently we are counting those now) and as a rookie.

We also know Pete favors veterans and that where somebody was drafted doesn't matter. See Perry.

Sorry you don't like facts.

Take care and good luck this upcoming season.

 

[Payne]

Right it is a fact he was atrocious in all the categories that Charb excelled in during his college career.

Edit: talking about short yardage, getting stuffed for 0 gain not his overall play.

Correct!

It’s almost as if we have stats to back that up.

Almost as if…

Will one of you please post Charbs NFL stats to date? I'll wait.......

Here are Walkers:

2022 Rushing​

See All

STATS
Regular Season
Postseason
Career

CAR	YDS	AVG	TD	LNG	REC	YDS	AVG	TD	LNG	FUM	LST
228	1,050	4.6	9	74	27	165	6.1	0	33	0	0

Or compare the college stats of Walker and Charbs.

 

[Weebs210]

Right it is a fact he was atrocious in all the categories that Charb excelled in during his college career.

Edit: talking about short yardage, getting stuffed for 0 gain not his overall play.

Correct!

It’s almost as if we have stats to back that up.

Almost as if…

Will one of you please post Charbs NFL stats to date? I'll wait.......

Here are Walkers:

2022 Rushing​

See All

STATS
Regular Season
Postseason
Career

CAR	YDS	AVG	TD	LNG	REC	YDS	AVG	TD	LNG	FUM	LST
228	1,050	4.6	9	74	27	165	6.1	0	33	0	0

Or compare the college stats of Walker and Charbs.

You don't seem to understand predicting of current statistics. That's okay no one is perfect. Enjoy your season.