RB Zach Charbonnet, SEA (1 Viewer)

[rockaction]

Maybe tone it down just a bit this year.

I'll second that, with the addition that I'm all for humility in this particular thread. This applies to everybody who right now is seemingly just hollering their priors to the mount for everybody to receive.

Reasoned flag planting? Great! But this level of seemingly irrational certitude is not good, nor is it a good look for anybody.

 

[Enzo....the Baker]

Fact is Walker has done it at the NFL level.

You’ve tried this argument time and again, and time and again it remains a deeply unserious thing to say.

Charbonnet will get his chance against NFL level players soon enough.

Are u a moderator here? Asking for a friend

 

[TripItUp]

Charbs is garbage, if these "highlights" push Walker's ADP down, what a gift from the fantasy Gods.

You speak so definitively each and every preseason, and yet if we look back at your record of calls just like this, I'm pretty sure they've often (mostly?) been as you describe Charbonnet now. Maybe tone it down just a bit this year.

Just stating my opinion on ff players.

There are others in this thread that actually throw shade at forum members.

Which is worse?

 

[LawFitz]

Charbs is garbage, if these "highlights" push Walker's ADP down, what a gift from the fantasy Gods.

You speak so definitively each and every preseason, and yet if we look back at your record of calls just like this, I'm pretty sure they've often (mostly?) been as you describe Charbonnet now. Maybe tone it down just a bit this year.

Just stating my opinion on ff players.

There are others in this thread that actually throw shade at forum members.

Which is worse?

Throw your hands up all you want, but you follow this same pattern every year, I've noticed. I also notice you've seemingly deleted your prior year threads, I can only assume to hide how bad those calls turned out with time. All good though, I aim not to shame you, but to hopefully encourage more balance to your approach. I speak as someone with similar prior transgressions, so take it or leave it.

 

[TripItUp]

I also notice you've seemingly deleted your prior year threads,

I haven't deleted a thing bro.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Charbs is garbage, if these "highlights" push Walker's ADP down, what a gift from the fantasy Gods.

They’re not highlights. He had four carries and three catches. It’s all of his touches.

which is why I put the word in quotes.

You were trying to imply they weren’t impressive “highlights” because he “looked like garbage” - come on at least be genuine.

This was his first NFL action. Did he look amazing? no, but he ran hard and was tough to tackle. Did he look like garbage? That’s just silly and I’m sure you know it but you planted your flag and you’re afraid to back down.

This and the Walker thread has deteriorated into garbage because some Walker owners (same three over and over) can’t even admit the possibility of Charbs cutting into some of the more valuable fantasy touches and get really weirdly defensive - it’s the worst I’ve seen on these boards.

I’m pretty sure if you gave each of them a magic button that would have changed Seattle’s Charbonet pick to a CB, they’d be pressing the hell out of that button. Is that so hard to accept?

Meanwhile most in here “defending” Charbonet are only expecting a RBBC (with most saying Walker leads it) where both players may have some fantasy value but each’s ceiling and/or value is somewhat capped while the other is healthy.

 

[Chaka]

Just changed my fantasy team name to "Irrational Certitude"

 

[BobbyLayne]

Just changed my fantasy team name to "Irrational Certitude"

whole lotta SDE in the pool these days

I almost forgot that’s kind of the norm in August

like trying to get in your normal workout at the gym first week of January

 

[jm192]

Charbs is garbage, if these "highlights" push Walker's ADP down, what a gift from the fantasy Gods.

They’re not “highlights”. He had four carries and two catches. It’s all of his touches.

This.

I for one thought he impressed overall.

There was a dump off where the QB just flips it to him as a defender is right in Charbs face. He makes a man miss and turns a loss into a gain.

 

[Chaka]

Just changed my fantasy team name to "Irrational Certitude"

whole lotta SDE in the pool these days

I almost forgot that’s kind of the norm in August

like trying to get in your normal workout at the gym first week of January

Should I pretend I know what "SDE" means so I don't feel old?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Charbs is garbage, if these "highlights" push Walker's ADP down, what a gift from the fantasy Gods.

They’re not “highlights”. He had four carries and two catches. It’s all of his touches.

This.

I for one thought he impressed overall.

There was a dump off where the QB just flips it to him as a defender is right in Charbs face. He makes a man miss and turns a loss into a gain.

I can accept legit criticisms like what @menobrown has to say. I agree to some extent that he does run a bit stiff and upright but he’s a power back - and 6’ backs always appear to run a bit upright because we’re used to seeing 5’9”/5’10” RBs out there.

What I can’t accept is hot takes with an agenda. That isn’t what this board is for and that’s all a few are bringing in here.

 

[rockaction]

Just changed my fantasy team name to "Irrational Certitude"

What can I say? I have a gift.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Just changed my fantasy team name to "Irrational Certitude"

whole lotta SDE in the pool these days

I almost forgot that’s kind of the norm in August

like trying to get in your normal workout at the gym first week of January

Should I pretend I know what "SDE" means so I don't feel old?

hint: begins with small and ends with energy

 

[Zow]

He looked like a JAG vs backups to me.

No way this dude outperforms Walker.

Respectfully, you have Lebron ranked #8 all time in nba greats. Accordingly, it seems prudent to conclude that you don’t base your analysis on actual statistics or objective analysis.

 

[Weebs210]

He looked like a JAG vs backups to me.

No way this dude outperforms Walker.

Respectfully, you have Lebron ranked #8 all time in nba greats. Accordingly, it seems prudent to conclude that you don’t base your analysis in actual statistics.

Wow this really puts everything he says into perspective. He seems to let his emotions cloud reality.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

He seems to let his emotions cloud reality.

That kind of thing can really trip somebody up.

 

[rockaction]

I'll second that, with the addition that I'm all for humility in this particular thread. This applies to everybody who right now is seemingly just hollering their priors to the mount for everybody to receive.

Reasoned flag planting? Great! But this level of seemingly irrational certitude is not good, nor is it a good look for anybody.

So scoldy. Did you all feel it in your shoes? Go get 'em, up all night rock.

 

[FarFromHome]

Did we figure out what SDE means? I read the hint. If the hint was accurate does the middle word sound like sick? If so that's a cool acronym. Knew I came to these board for a higher learning experience

 

[TripItUp]

Respectfully, you have Lebron ranked #8 all time in nba greats. Accordingly, it seems prudent to conclude that you don’t base your analysis on actual statistics or objective analysis.

Or perhaps the statistics and analysis you rely on is different than that of mine.

 

[TripItUp]

Wow this really puts everything he says into perspective. He seems to let his emotions cloud reality.

LOL at "emotions"

So many posters on this messageboard try to so hard to personally attack posters that have alternative opinions instead of focusing on actual FF opinions and takes.

Very bizarre.

 

[LawFitz]

So many posters on this messageboard try to so hard to personally attack posters that have alternative opinions instead of focusing on actual FF opinions and takes.

While I don't disagree with your general comment above, I think in your case most people are more annoyed by your posting style - e.g. repetitive/redundant hot takes often lacking substance and subtley inciting + regularly referring to yourself in the 3rd person + the passive-aggressive know-more-than-everyone tone. That stuff rubs people the wrong way and builds up negative energy which I think often spills over towards you.

I can assure you that from my vantage point, at least, I have zero issue with you having differing opinions and outlooks toward players. I welcome them, actually, which is why I am making this effort to try to give you some perspective that might help you feel less personally attacked and perhaps moreso constructively criticized. Take it or leave it, but if it helps ease any sting reading this, I find myself asking myself how often I might be guilty of these same things. I know for sure it's more than zero, so perhaps we can all learn a bit here.

 

[Payne]

Fact is Walker has done it at the NFL level.

You’ve tried this argument time and again, and time and again it remains a deeply unserious thing to say.

Charbonnet will get his chance against NFL level players soon enough.

One of the worst arguments I've seen on here to be honest and he's screaming it off the mountain top.

Please explain how this is one of the worst arguments you've seen.
I'm dumbfounded how you can even say that.

You know what, don't answer. Octopus is right, this and the Walker thread are trash. I'm just as blown away as he is.

I don't think anyone has said Charbs will not get touches. Not the "same three". I 100% understand he will. But I also countered with it's not like Walker got all the touches last year. He did not. I also provided potential stats based on Walker and Seattle's history of running the ball. For some reason, when I bring up the fact Walker produced great numbers at both the college and NFL level, some consider it "one of the worst arguments they've ever seen".

What got me is people posting here (with 100% confidence) that Charbs IS better than Walker at certain things. You simply cannot say that. Right?

I am going to do my best to stay out of this thread. You all are good people. I know that. No need to get upset about it.

Time to enjoy draft season. Good luck to everyone.

 

[dkp993]

The PSF is alive and well here in this thread. Well done fellas.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Wow. This thread is…something.

 

[Faust]

Zach Charbonnet is off to the races on 29-yard burst

 

[SayWhat?]

Zach Charbonnet is off to the races on 29-yard burst

“Off to the races” for a “29 yard burst” kind of cracks me up.

 

[Chaka]

Zach Charbonnet is off to the races on 29-yard burst

“Off to the races” for a “29 yard burst” kind of cracks me up.

There was a bit of nitpicking of that run in the preseason games thread.

There was a lot to like about that run by Charbonnet. His burst to, and through the hole was excellent. I liked how he "got skinny" just before he hit the hole. He hit top speed quickly after he got through. I didn't see a great cutback lane but it sure looked like Charbonnet was looking for one. And his balance as he tried to stay in bounds was also nice to see.

I don't have a dog in the Walker/Charbonnet iFight yet (we draft on the 2nd so maybe I will) but this kid looks like he can play.

 

[SayWhat?]

Zach Charbonnet is off to the races on 29-yard burst

“Off to the races” for a “29 yard burst” kind of cracks me up.

There was a bit of nitpicking of that run in the preseason games thread.

There was a lot to like about that run by Charbonnet. His burst to, and through the hole was excellent. I liked how he "got skinny" just before he hit the hole. He hit top speed quickly after he got through. I didn't see a great cutback lane but it sure looked like Charbonnet was looking for one. And his balance as he tried to stay in bounds was also nice to see.

I don't have a dog in the Walker/Charbonnet iFight yet (we draft on the 2nd so maybe I will) but this kid looks like he can play.

Just to clarify, I wasn’t nitpicking the run. Just that “off to the races” isn’t typically utilized to describe a 29 yard run that didn’t result in a touchdown.

 

[rockaction]

I wasn’t nitpicking the run.

Chaka is referring to me and travdogg. trav thought he should have housed that run, but I didn't see how he had an angle or a cutback lane that was available and not sealed off by his own guy. trav thought it was something Walker would have scored on. I didn't necessarily disagree but didn't quite fully agree, either. We'll never know because it wasn't Walker.

 

[barackdhouse]

Wow, does this thread suck.

Ok, well, I have nothing to add except although I'm not a boomer, I have no idea what PSF means. Been trying to figure it out. It isn't pounds per square feet and it isn't plastic surgery face or psuedo-skeptic-fanatic (that's the closest I could come up with).

The PSF is alive and well here in this thread. Well done fellas.

So anyway there is a rookie RB in Seattle that will get some kind of playing time. Big whoop.

6th highest rostered RB in best ball at 35%. I've got Walker at 8%. Mostly that is a function of ADP and build constructions, i.e, lots of zero RB builds for me this year.
22% rostered in redraft, 28% in dynasty.

Only one Walker dynasty share from a startup this year, prior to the NFL draft, where I also took Charbs.

Modest expectations are usually the best ingredient for not being disappointed. I think Charbs is as good of a handcuff as you'll find and will have *some* standalone value. And I think it will eat into Walker enough that his 3rd round redraft price is too high.

 

[rockaction]

I have no idea what PSF means

The FootballGuys Political Sub Forum, otherwise known as the PSF, otherwise known as the place where otherwise good people go to express their worst emotions and fight about everything. It's shut down for a reason. It was pretty much that bad. This thread approaches that sort of know-it-all attitude mixed with the rancor that makes that kind of certitude special.

 

[barackdhouse]

I have no idea what PSF means

The FootballGuys Political Sub Forum, otherwise known as the PSF, otherwise known as the place where otherwise good people go to express their worst emotions and fight about everything. It's shut down for a reason. It was pretty much that bad. This thread approaches that sort of know-it-all attitude mixed with the rancor that makes that kind of certitude special.

ahhh that makes sense

 

[massraider]

I don't have a dog in the Walker/Charbonnet iFight yet (we draft on the 2nd so maybe I will) but this kid looks like he can play.

I think Pete Carroll likes this kind of back. And since he's the coach, and they took him early, I am kind of thinking he gets a lot of work.

 

[dkp993]

I have no idea what PSF means

The FootballGuys Political Sub Forum, otherwise known as the PSF, otherwise known as the place where otherwise good people go to express their worst emotions and fight about everything. It's shut down for a reason. It was pretty much that bad. This thread approaches that sort of know-it-all attitude mixed with the rancor that makes that kind of certitude special.

ahhh that makes sense

Don’t get use to it, I only make sense on the rare occasion.

 

[Chaka]

I don't have a dog in the Walker/Charbonnet iFight yet (we draft on the 2nd so maybe I will) but this kid looks like he can play.

I think Pete Carroll likes this kind of back. And since he's the coach, and they took him early, I am kind of thinking he gets a lot of work.

I have no idea but I do know that is Pete's philosophy is the best players play.

 

[rockaction]

I have no idea but I do know that is Pete's philosophy is the best players play.

Now define what Pete thinks is "best" and you and mass are both right. mass is saying that in Pete's mind, that kind of back is "best."

eta* figured I'd state the unspoken premise inherent in the argument there

 

[Chaka]

I have no idea but I do know that is Pete's philosophy is the best players play.

Now define what Pete thinks is "best" and you and mass are both right. mass is saying that in Pete's mind, that kind of back is "best."

eta* figured I'd state the unspoken premise inherent in the argument there

No idea.

But if both are very good then both will play.

 

[Biabreakable]

I don't have a dog in the Walker/Charbonnet iFight yet (we draft on the 2nd so maybe I will) but this kid looks like he can play.

I think Pete Carroll likes this kind of back. And since he's the coach, and they took him early, I am kind of thinking he gets a lot of work.

I agree.

The thing that confuses me though is why they have used high picks on Michael, Penny and maybe Walker fits this category? To then end up using someone else.

It seems like a waste of draft capital.

I have seen talk about Seattle using sparq scores as part of their player evaluation process for the draft. In fact the first time I heard of sparq scores was in relation to Seattle. But then they end up using a Yeti like Chris Carson.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

The thing that confuses me though is why they have used high picks on Michael, Penny and maybe Walker fits this category? To then end up using someone else.

I think that plan is to use both?

 

[Biabreakable]

The thing that confuses me though is why they have used high picks on Michael, Penny and maybe Walker fits this category? To then end up using someone else.

I think that plan is to use both?

Yes and injuries have something to do with how that played out in the past as well.

Just something that has long puzzled me. Mostly is regards to the legend Michael.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

The thing that confuses me though is why they have used high picks on Michael, Penny and maybe Walker fits this category? To then end up using someone else.

I think that plan is to use both?

Yes and injuries have something to do with how that played out in the past as well.

Just something that has long puzzled me. Mostly is regards to the legend Michael.

I think if Penny managed to stay healthy, they would have gladly made him a centerpiece of the offense - but he couldn’t and Carson just came in a dominated.

 

[Stoneworker]

Never really paid much attention to Charbonnet once he couldn't beat out Blake Corum, Hassan Haskins and Chris Evans at Michigan.

Certainly a level below Walker.

 

[massraider]

Mostly is regards to the legend Michael.

Unfortunately for Michael, Carroll was the coach, not Shark Pool regulars.

 

[Chaka]

Never really paid much attention to Charbonnet once he couldn't beat out Blake Corum, Hassan Haskins and Chris Evans at Michigan.

Walker couldn't beat out Cade Carney & Christian Beale at Wake Forrest.

 

[Stoneworker]

Never really paid much attention to Charbonnet once he couldn't beat out Blake Corum, Hassan Haskins and Chris Evans at Michigan.

Walker couldn't beat out Cade Carney & Christian Beale at Wake Forrest.

Walker traded up. Charbonnet traded down.

 

[Chaka]

Never really paid much attention to Charbonnet once he couldn't beat out Blake Corum, Hassan Haskins and Chris Evans at Michigan.

Walker couldn't beat out Cade Carney & Christian Beale at Wake Forrest.

Walker traded up. Charbonnet traded down.

I think you're trying to make the data fit your conclusion.

I have no opinion on either Walker or Charbonnet yet. They both seem like they can play at this level, though. Walker should probably be the 1a in this backfield but I would temper any expectations for a 70:30 share or even 60:40. Somewhere in the 55:45-58:42 range seems more realistic.*

*ETA: I should caveat this post with the point that we still don't know if Charbonnet can play at this level. He looks like he may but, honestly no idea.

 

[The Finist]

Never really paid much attention to Charbonnet once he couldn't beat out Blake Corum, Hassan Haskins and Chris Evans at Michigan.

Walker couldn't beat out Cade Carney & Christian Beale at Wake Forrest.

Walker traded up. Charbonnet traded down.

I think you're trying to make the data fit your conclusion.

I have no opinion on either Walker or Charbonnet yet. They both seem like they can play at this level, though. Walker should probably be the 1a in this backfield but I would temper any expectations for a 70:30 share or even 60:40. Somewhere in the 55:45-58:42 range seems more realistic.

That's fine n dandy but it's not how Pete has run the Seahawks up to this point.
I wouldn't be confident that changes but everyone has an opinion.

 

[Stoneworker]

Never really paid much attention to Charbonnet once he couldn't beat out Blake Corum, Hassan Haskins and Chris Evans at Michigan.

Walker couldn't beat out Cade Carney & Christian Beale at Wake Forrest.

Walker traded up. Charbonnet traded down.

I think you're trying to make the data fit your conclusion.

I have no opinion on either Walker or Charbonnet yet. They both seem like they can play at this level, though. Walker should probably be the 1a in this backfield but I would temper any expectations for a 70:30 share or even 60:40. Somewhere in the 55:45-58:42 range seems more realistic.

No, I'm not. I am a Big Ten/Michigan fan and watched them both play in college.

That is what my conclusion that Walker > Charbonnet was based on. Not the "data" that they both transferred.

Charbonnet did not take his game to another level by virtue of transfer. He just had more opportunity that he couldn't earn over the RB competition at Michigan.

Walker, on the other hand, was able to display his full potential under a different regime at MSU.

IMO

 

[Lansdowne]

Never really paid much attention to Charbonnet once he couldn't beat out Blake Corum, Hassan Haskins and Chris Evans at Michigan.

Walker couldn't beat out Cade Carney & Christian Beale at Wake Forrest.

Walker’s reason for transferring was because he didn’t feel Wake Forest’s “slow mesh” RPO style offense was a fit for showcasing his talents.

How Kenneth Walker III ignited Michigan State's rebuild as 2021's greatest transfer success story

Walker ranks No. 2 nationally in rushing yards and has led an offensive resurgence at Michigan State

www.cbssports.com

Transferred to a tougher conference and immediately became the best RB in the nation that season, so I’d say he was right and it was more to do with how he was underutilized before.

 

[Largent]

Walker 3 series to Charb's 1 series. Its that simple.