Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
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RB Zach Charbonnet, SEA (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
VikingFrog
Footballguy
But none of those weekly stats I posted the last few weeks are “near”.
Sunday Gravy
Footballguy
Are you trolling?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Nope
On the other hand, I don’t care that much. It’s a committee, which is the only point that matters here.
Likely.
themeistersinger
Footballguy
I'd take that stat line
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Is Walker officially out or is the old gum chewer waiting till tonight?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
He’s listed as Doubtful
themeistersinger
Footballguy
Walker is inactive
Seahawks inactives
LB Frank Clark
OG McClendon Curtis
OG Raiqwon O'Neal
RB Kenneth Walker
DT Cameron Young
WR Dareke Young
49ers inactives
QB Brandon Allen
OG Ben Bartch
OG Spencer Burford
DT Kalia Davis
RB Tyrion Davis-Price
LB Jalen Graham
TE Brayden Willis
VikingFrog
Footballguy
The good news. Charbonnet has 47% of the Seahawks total yards in the first half.
The bad news. The Seahawks have 15 yards in the first half.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I’ve made a huge mistake. 
SF just dominant
SF just dominant
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The Finist
Footballguy
People actually thought this guy could produce behind that OL? Sheesh. He is a mudder behind a bad OL. No room to run. If Walker finds the smallest crease he can take it all the way. Same play thats like a 10 yard gain for charbs.
Amazing how people can't see the forest for the trees here
Amazing how people can't see the forest for the trees here
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Bozeman Bruiser
Footballguy
Just to clarify, I meant for the season not for week 12.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
Niners defense is legit. I get that, but these are the games where u can see the difference in talent between Walker and Charbs. Charbs is okay at most things but great at nothing. Walker is a beast
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Drake Hater
Footballguy
Yeah, he didn't impress. Could improve as he's a big back with some shift but looked borderline jag tonight.
Dinkle Heimer
Footballguy
I'm jumping in without reading the first 16 pages....but...
People are really basing Charbonnet's long term value off of this game against the niners defensive front? It was men against boys in all 3 phases. The game script was horrible beyond garbage time points. He's at least 'flashed' with physicality and wiggle several times this season in limited opportunity.
His long term value is up for debate with more sample size needed. It's also obviously dependent on how healthy or unhealthy KW3 stays. KW3 has higher big play upside but durability could be an issue.
lf we are going for hot takes, after 1 game as lead back, Charbonnet did nearly get 10 PPR points as starting RB which literally makes you boderline flex worthy in this day and age of RB scoring. And those
9.8 points were more than KW3 has got in 3 of his last 4 games.
People are really basing Charbonnet's long term value off of this game against the niners defensive front? It was men against boys in all 3 phases. The game script was horrible beyond garbage time points. He's at least 'flashed' with physicality and wiggle several times this season in limited opportunity.
His long term value is up for debate with more sample size needed. It's also obviously dependent on how healthy or unhealthy KW3 stays. KW3 has higher big play upside but durability could be an issue.
lf we are going for hot takes, after 1 game as lead back, Charbonnet did nearly get 10 PPR points as starting RB which literally makes you boderline flex worthy in this day and age of RB scoring. And those
9.8 points were more than KW3 has got in 3 of his last 4 games.
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LawFitz
Footballguy
K9 owner and Charb fan here and I support this sentiment. Playing NFL RB is more than just breaking the occasional long run. K9 has more burst with less vision and durability, given similar physicality. Niners DLine is beast, and Charb is no JAG.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
I'll sum up the first 16 pages. Half the board thought Charbs was gonna come in and take the job from Walker. Half board thought that was silly. No one is judging his entire career off one game. I'm just saying he looks like a decent NFL RB not legit NFL starting RB that has the position locked up for 5 years.
I know it stinks that he didn't blow up given that he had bellcow usage, but I'll take the 9.8 points against a dominant SF D. I think what a lot of us our experiencing is that familiar awful "I shouldn't have played this guy on a Thursday game" and now we have to sit until Sunday. He got 4 receptions, not sure how many more we could have expected, but I do recall 2 of those might have been in one drive late in the game. 7 of his 11 receiving yards came on 1 catch, so not the greatest use of him as a dump-off option. Seattle was just blown off the field and never had a chance. Here's hoping Walker still isn't healthy enough for next Thursday night and Charbs gets another chance. Although that game is against the Cowboys, so it's not like it gets any easier. Which we knew, his ROS schedule is brutal for RBs.
Too lazy to look, but did you make this declaration BEFORE the game?
Captain Hindsight
Todem
Footballguy
No comparison.
Walker has elite skills.....Charbs is a plodder that can catch.
Walker is this teams #1 back...no doubt...no question.
Todem
Footballguy
Exactly. Use your eyes and it’s obvious to see who the better NFL RB is.
People sometimes get way too “ownership” attached to a player and hope too hard for something that is not going to happen based on...you know...actual playing time and the results you see....and not so much the stats per say.....just the talent level.
Charbs is not a #1 back from everything I have seen in his limited playing time this season. And Walker is clearly a #1 back in this league.
BlackCrowes
Footballguy
I thought he looked good. Very talented 
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Good save.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Yeah - I liked what I saw a lot. He certainly didn’t do anything to dissuade Carroll from using him as the trend has gone.I thought he looked good. Very talented
He ran hard. Especially impressive was the play he gained 3 yards by pushing a pile of 4 defenders. Shoulda been a TFL.
The Matt Forte comps look better & better.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Eh.
An argument can be made for each RB. They’re very different players.
Walker has too many TFL.
Charbs seemed to gain yardage on every touch. (Except when he’s thrown a pass 8 yards behind the line with a LB standing 3” away)
If you need 1 yard for a 1st, Walker might be 60-40 to get it, while Charbonnet more like 95-5
If you need 5 yards, Walker might bust an 80 yard run for a TD, while Charbs might get you 5.
I still think Charbs is a more fluid receiver.
Seattle has a nice tandem of backs. And I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but so long as they’re both healthy (another knock on Walker’s profile) Seattle won’t have a true RB1. It’s a committee.
Not that Walker can’t be a RB1 in FF some weeks, but it seems clear that Charbonnet will continue to eat into his touches.
Drake Hater
Footballguy
Such a bad decision from Geno.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
The worst! What was he thinking?!
I think he was shell shocked - football became a hot potato.
Really? I thought he looked like I thought back before the draft which was meh. Stiff hips, slow twitch, no juice, upright hard runner who does almost everything technically sound and gives you his all but is just not working with a lot athletically.I thought he looked good. Very talented
This is one of those situations that looks exactly like I thought it would in May as it does today. Walkers the clear cut superior runner, the one who stresses defenses and makes chunk plays and is underrated as a receiving weapon but Charbs does a lot of the stuff well that Walker is not as great at and they compliment each other well which is why this moved to a RBBC.
Lansdowne
Footballguy
In the 2003 season, Kevin Faulk averaged 16 touches for 71 total yards per game as the lead back for the Patriots. He also had 0 touchdowns. That kind of production is where Zach Charbonnet is trending for these next five weeks or so given the gauntlet of run defenses the Seahawks have to go through (assuming Kenneth Walker doesn’t play of course). I mention the 0 touchdowns because that is how many Charbonnet has through 90 touches so far this season. If you’re fine with Kevin Faulk like production out of your flex then all is well for you. Otherwise I’d keep stashed on the bench unless you’re in a serious bind.
I can’t speak for others but I always figured Charbonnet would get more involved as the season progressed and that has remained true. I haven’t come away impressed from what I’ve seen out of him thus far but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
I can’t speak for others but I always figured Charbonnet would get more involved as the season progressed and that has remained true. I haven’t come away impressed from what I’ve seen out of him thus far but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
The only way Charbs has value is if Walker isn't healthy. The problem is Walker gets dinged up a lot because he runs like man on fire. We have a blueprint if both are healthy. One is relevant and one isn't.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Charbs does enough to cap Walker’s ceiling if both are healthy.
But let’s be fair - Charbonnet’s numbers last night are actually somewhat impressive considering how abjectly terrible Geno Smith played.
SF dominated TOP. Ladanian Tomlinson would have had a meh night against that 49ers D with Geno playing like that.
I don't like but this is correct. I own Walker on 4 teams total, two of them he was on the bench when he entered his last game healthy and would have been 4 for 4 if Kamara was not on bye and Mattison had been ruled out in which case I'd have put in Chandler.
He's relevant, but he's not only no longer "must start" status he's moved to "I hope I can find someone else to start over him" status for me.
I said this a few days ago and will say it again and hope I can be clear so it does not sound like I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth. I think Walker's a special unique talent and Charbs is a jack of all trades jag. But due to how they are used I feel considerably better putting Charbs in a lineup if Walker is out then I do putting Walker in a lineup when both are healthy. Last nights poor output has not changed that opinion.
Todem
Footballguy
We can agree to disgaree.
Charbs is a complimentary back in my eyes and is a plodder with hands.
Walker is an explosive RB and I not comparing him.....but you remember Barry Sanders? Yeah he would also have plenty of negative carries.....and then explode for huge chunk plays.
Yes they are very different backs.
One is an explosive play maker and the other is and will be a spell back who can give the starter a breather and play on some passing downs.
My eyes are my eyes and that's what they see.
And for more objective clarity....I do not own any shares in either back.
BlackCrowes
Footballguy
Walker is talented too. Not really comparing the two. That was the first time I’d really watched Charbs and I thought he looked very good. SF defense is GREATReally? I thought he looked like I thought back before the draft which was meh. Stiff hips, slow twitch, no juice, upright hard runner who does almost everything technically sound and gives you his all but is just not working with a lot athletically.I thought he looked good. Very talented
This is one of those situations that looks exactly like I thought it would in May as it does today. Walkers the clear cut superior runner, the one who stresses defenses and makes chunk plays and is underrated as a receiving weapon but Charbs does a lot of the stuff well that Walker is not as great at and they compliment each other well which is why this moved to a RBBC.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Actually we don't disagree. We're saying the same things. Charbs is a complimentary back who does things well that Walker doesn't. He's better in short yardage, and is a more fluid receiver.
I have 1 share of Charbs in a 10-team redraft, so my views aren't tainted in the slightest. I have none in dynasty of either.
That all said, there's zero question that when both are healthy, Charbs caps Walker's upside.
I suggest you go back and read my post again - we're not on opposite sides of this. Nothing to agree to disagree about since we agree. lol
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Considering how poorly Geno played, and the caliber of defense, I thought Charbs did pretty well.
Sunday Gravy
Footballguy
You talking about the game last night? He looked very good?Walker is talented too. Not really comparing the two. That was the first time I’d really watched Charbs and I thought he looked very good. SF defense is GREATReally? I thought he looked like I thought back before the draft which was meh. Stiff hips, slow twitch, no juice, upright hard runner who does almost everything technically sound and gives you his all but is just not working with a lot athletically.I thought he looked good. Very talented
This is one of those situations that looks exactly like I thought it would in May as it does today. Walkers the clear cut superior runner, the one who stresses defenses and makes chunk plays and is underrated as a receiving weapon but Charbs does a lot of the stuff well that Walker is not as great at and they compliment each other well which is why this moved to a RBBC.
In the last few weeks Mixon had his best rushing game of the season against SF and Cleveland ran all over them. Most games RB's don't do a lot it's because they get behind and have to abandon the run and they've faced a ton of poor starting RB's so I'm not really buying into this notion they are some brick wall to run into and again I'll say I did not see much at all from Charbs last night to make me say to myself "man he looked good".
FarFromHome
Footballguy
Watch YouTube clip of his touches in last night's game with an open mind and NFL scout glasses. My take:
Big guy. Strong. Lacked vision. Maybe tried to force things instead of reading play and reacting. Lacks burst and that quick cut to hole. Soft hands. Even as a rookie looks like he could be a solid 3rd down RB. Will never be the guy to make one cut and take it 60 yards but will grind it out. Player comp for me is junior light version of Eddie George. Not a bad thing but a guy who will need 300 carries to get 1000. That's so 1980s NFL RB and not the modern version. Solid pro.
Big guy. Strong. Lacked vision. Maybe tried to force things instead of reading play and reacting. Lacks burst and that quick cut to hole. Soft hands. Even as a rookie looks like he could be a solid 3rd down RB. Will never be the guy to make one cut and take it 60 yards but will grind it out. Player comp for me is junior light version of Eddie George. Not a bad thing but a guy who will need 300 carries to get 1000. That's so 1980s NFL RB and not the modern version. Solid pro.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
you must not have seen him consistently push the pile for extra yards then.
I came away impressed.
I think I just got a higher bar.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I think you’re underrating him a little.
I agree he’s no superstar, but I think he’s got good power & soft hands enough to be more than “jag”.
Kuz
Footballguy
Leroy Hoard says hi....
Da Franchise
Footballguy
It’s pretty simple. We got a murky backfield here. Walker brings lightning plays. Charb brings thunder. Neither will be difference makers without an injury to the other. You’d rather own the cheaper one. It’s all kryptonite for fantasy.
Guys like Payne can complain all they want. Is what it is.
Guys like Payne can complain all they want. Is what it is.
Not complaining at all. When healthy, Walker produced. Just like he did last year.
Charbs didn't have a double digit carry game until the past two weeks, has ZERO touchdowns and 100 yards receiving total on the year. He has been far from great.
This argument just isn't worth it. For 10 weeks there wasn't a peep from the Charbs supporters. They knew they were wrong. The stats speak for themselves.
And to think it was me who was asked to admit I was wrong. lol.
