RB Zach Charbonnet, SEA (2 Viewers)

[menobrown]

It hasn't been talked about much, so maybe I'm just remembering wrong, but Carroll hasn't really been much of a RBBC guy, right? Even with Carson and Penny it was typically one was clearly the lead back until they got hurt.

Seems to me like there's a scenario here where Walker is the CLEAR lead and Charbs was just drafted because Pete still values RBs like it's 1970 and he's had lots of problems with depth at that position lately, and he's tired of having to abandon his entire philosophy when his starter gets hurt.

IIRC he’s more of a “hot hand” guy.

I rostered Carson for what seemed like forever, and I distinctly recall games where Penny (rare healthy moments) took over games & Carson disappointed.

Penny was hurt too much to impact Carson that frequently, but Penny got work when he was healthy.

I remember it a little differently myself. Seemed to me like Carson was the bellcow and Penny just relieved him in games. Every backup gets a little work.

Was the same thing early on last year with Penny and Walker.

I don't recall it being some kind of situation that it was like confusing as to who the primary RB would be, not some kind of WDIS decision if you had both and needed to start one. Seemed more like a clear pecking order got established, a starter, a RB to give them a breather, and maybe a different third down RB then either of them.

No idea if that's how it's going to be. They never spent b2b picks on second round RB's before.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

No idea if that's how it's going to be. They never spent b2b picks on second round RB's before.

Yeah, to say it’s unusual is an understatement.

But if you look back you’ll see a few games where Penny had monster days & Carson had rather pedestrian stat lines. I’m not making it up - I lost games because of it. Maybe it was flukey like Penny was getting 5 touches and he took two of them for long house-calls, so Carroll kept feeding him, but they did happen.

It’s going to be interesting to see how this goes down.

I simply refuse to accept that Carroll spent a 2nd round pick on Charbonnet because he was happy with Walker’s inconsistency. It stands to reason that Charbonnet will get significant touches.

Also Carroll’s comments in the aftermath of the draft saying it’ll be a competition wasn’t exactly a ringing endorsement of Walker.

 

[menobrown]

But if you look back you’ll see a few games where Penny had monster days & Carson had rather pedestrian stat lines.

Stat lines and usage are not the same thing though. Penny has popped off a few hundred yard games on limited carries because he's explosive but his snaps and touches were consistently low while Carson was healthy.

I simply refuse to accept that Carroll spent a 2nd round pick on Charbonnet because he was happy with Walker’s inconsistency. It stands to reason that Charbonnet will get significant touches.

Also Carroll’s comments in the aftermath of the draft saying it’ll be a competition wasn’t exactly a ringing endorsement of Walker.

I don't see any of this the same as you.

Seattle has a history of taking Rb's in round 2 and barely using them until the incumbent starter was hurt.

I've read reports they took Charbonnett simply because they remained true to their board and went BPA. Personally I think saying they took Charb because they are not happy with Walker is creating a false narrative.

Carroll has been preaching competition for years, more then any coach I know, it's his mantra.

 

[Payne]

Team Fit: While running back depth behind Kenneth Walker III was definitely a concern entering the weekend, grabbing one in the second round was probably unnecessary. Charbonnet was arguably the third-best running back prospect in this draft and gives Seattle the kind of physical back it has lacked since the moment Chris Carson retired. The 215-pounder is good enough, in fact, that he will probably work in tandem with Walker moving forward. Walker figures to remain the clear leader in the backfield, but it would be an upset if Charbonnet is not handling roughly 10 touches per game and playing more often in passing situations than Walker.


What does it mean in redraft (12 teams)? The real question here is how many snaps on passing downs Charbonnet will steal from DeeJay Dallas or any other competition the team may add at the position later. If the answer is somewhere in the neighborhood of an even split, then Charbonnet could push for RB3/flex value. Even if he falls short of that, the UCLA product will have significant value as one of the most high-upside handcuffs available.

 

[Gally]

It will never not be hilarious. It’s one of the most perfect things the television has ever gifted us.

That show had some great moments and that was one of the best.

 

[efactor]

I don't know where this idea came from that Charbonnet is going to get all the receptions

Didn’t say he’d get all the receptions.

The idea probably comes from Charbonnet’s college film and pre-draft scouting reports that shows/says he’s a fluid receiver, and the fact that Walker really isn’t.


ETA: this is from the link Faust just posted.

Charbonnet comes into the NFL with the receiving chops and the ability to grind through tackles, making for a juicy fantasy prospect.

And

Charbonnet’s receiving chops are what the team was after and in an interview with Seattle Sports 710, Carroll stated “He’s so versatile. He just will fit in and be a great addition. And really, we’re gonna find out how far he can take it in terms of the receiving part of it. We know he’s really good at it. But so is Kenneth [Walker], so those guys will be battling. And we also went all the way down to get Kenny McIntosh because of his versatility. There’s so many positives about these guys.”

About Walker

While Walker did produce for the fantasy crowd last year, he struggled as a pass catcher, posting the eighth-worst yards per route run (.85) among RBs with at least 15 targets. Charbonnet can come in on those crucial third downs and goal-line situations and produce solid numbers for both real and fantasy football.

Which echoes everything I have been saying about Charbs being a better bet for receptions / short yardage.

I'd disagree with that scouting report. Charbonnet is a solid checkdown option, but he an average receiver in my opinion, he's not a guy I would ever expect to be featured (especially in this offense) in the passing game. He's not a great route runner or separator, he just has good hands. That's probably still better than Walker, but I think counting on that as a valuable part of Charbs production is a mistake, Seattle is maybe the least valuable 3rd down job in the NFL.

From a redraft perspective, I see Walker as a 4th round pick, and Charbonnet as a 9th rounder. I'll likely have zero Walker shares. Dynasty wise, I have Charbonnet as 1.9, and would maybe go as high as 1.3 for Walker if I were a RB away. I think Walker is a better overall runner, with FAR superior big-play ability. I'd be awfully surprised if he lost that starting job at any point.

I mean, you’re basically disagreeing with Pete Carroll.

Well, Pete isn’t a genius in all aspects football. I mean the man called (or was at least on board) a slant pass from the 1 yard line in the Super Bowl

I can sleepwalk that thing to him, boy!

Classic

It will never not be hilarious. It’s one of the most perfect things the television has ever gifted us.

Plus, it came so soon after the game. Hilarious but brutal for Pete and Bevel

 

[menobrown]

I've read reports they took Charbonnett simply because they remained true to their board and went BPA. Personally I think saying they took Charb because they are not happy with Walker is creating a false narrative.

Quoting myself here but wanted to post one of the reports I mentioned:

Seattle stays true to their board


5:16 p.m.

After Tampa Bay takes North Dakota State guard Cody Mauch at 48, Seahawks are three picks away from being on the clock again at No. 52, and they only have a few players left with second-round grades.

5:21 pm.
The Steelers take Wisconsin defensive tackle Keeanu Benton—a player the Seahawks liked, though not the top player left on their board—followed by Green Bay selecting Michigan State receiver Jayden Reed.


5:24 p.m.
As the Dolphins select South Carolina corner Cam Smith, Schneider is on the phone with a team trying to move up, but a deal doesn't materialize.

5:27 p.m.
Charbonnet is the top player left and who the Seahawks want to pick, but they're still going to use their time in case an offer too good to pass up comes along.
"Go with the board," Carroll says to the room, then to Waldron. "He's a heck of a player."

5:29 p.m.
Schneider makes the call to Charbonnet, and for the fourth time in as many selections, the Seahawks have truly stuck to their board and taken their top player.

 

[barackdhouse]

As much as I hate the landing spot*, I have found myself picking him up in lots of rookie drafts this week as he has fallen to the point that "talent >> situation" is too much to ignore.

Same has been true with Abanikanda and R Johnson.

*at least they like to run the ball

Hey anybody have data handy on split between RB passes with Wilson at QB v Geno? I have it in my head that Wilson was always less inclined to dump off. Is that less true with Geno? IDK but am curious.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I don't know where this idea came from that Charbonnet is going to get all the receptions

Didn’t say he’d get all the receptions.

The idea probably comes from Charbonnet’s college film and pre-draft scouting reports that shows/says he’s a fluid receiver, and the fact that Walker really isn’t.


ETA: this is from the link Faust just posted.

Charbonnet comes into the NFL with the receiving chops and the ability to grind through tackles, making for a juicy fantasy prospect.

And

Charbonnet’s receiving chops are what the team was after and in an interview with Seattle Sports 710, Carroll stated “He’s so versatile. He just will fit in and be a great addition. And really, we’re gonna find out how far he can take it in terms of the receiving part of it. We know he’s really good at it. But so is Kenneth [Walker], so those guys will be battling. And we also went all the way down to get Kenny McIntosh because of his versatility. There’s so many positives about these guys.”

About Walker

While Walker did produce for the fantasy crowd last year, he struggled as a pass catcher, posting the eighth-worst yards per route run (.85) among RBs with at least 15 targets. Charbonnet can come in on those crucial third downs and goal-line situations and produce solid numbers for both real and fantasy football.

Which echoes everything I have been saying about Charbs being a better bet for receptions / short yardage.

I'd disagree with that scouting report. Charbonnet is a solid checkdown option, but he an average receiver in my opinion, he's not a guy I would ever expect to be featured (especially in this offense) in the passing game. He's not a great route runner or separator, he just has good hands. That's probably still better than Walker, but I think counting on that as a valuable part of Charbs production is a mistake, Seattle is maybe the least valuable 3rd down job in the NFL.

From a redraft perspective, I see Walker as a 4th round pick, and Charbonnet as a 9th rounder. I'll likely have zero Walker shares. Dynasty wise, I have Charbonnet as 1.9, and would maybe go as high as 1.3 for Walker if I were a RB away. I think Walker is a better overall runner, with FAR superior big-play ability. I'd be awfully surprised if he lost that starting job at any point.

I mean, you’re basically disagreeing with Pete Carroll.

Disagreeing with what Pete Carroll thinks and disagreeing with what Pete Carroll says are two very different things.

Heck, in that same sentence he says Kenneth Walker is a really good receiver as well.

Every person he ever drafts can do every part of football amazingly.

 

[barackdhouse]

Been easy to pick him in the late 1st over what I consider to be mediocre WRs and rookie TEs that I don't want to roster (right now).

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Hey anybody have data handy on split between RB passes with Wilson at QB v Geno? I have it in my head that Wilson was always less inclined to dump off. Is that less true with Geno? IDK but am curious.

If I'm counting right, the team had the exact same number of RB receptions in 2022 as in 2021.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I don't know where this idea came from that Charbonnet is going to get all the receptions

Didn’t say he’d get all the receptions.

The idea probably comes from Charbonnet’s college film and pre-draft scouting reports that shows/says he’s a fluid receiver, and the fact that Walker really isn’t.


ETA: this is from the link Faust just posted.

Charbonnet comes into the NFL with the receiving chops and the ability to grind through tackles, making for a juicy fantasy prospect.

And

Charbonnet’s receiving chops are what the team was after and in an interview with Seattle Sports 710, Carroll stated “He’s so versatile. He just will fit in and be a great addition. And really, we’re gonna find out how far he can take it in terms of the receiving part of it. We know he’s really good at it. But so is Kenneth [Walker], so those guys will be battling. And we also went all the way down to get Kenny McIntosh because of his versatility. There’s so many positives about these guys.”

About Walker

While Walker did produce for the fantasy crowd last year, he struggled as a pass catcher, posting the eighth-worst yards per route run (.85) among RBs with at least 15 targets. Charbonnet can come in on those crucial third downs and goal-line situations and produce solid numbers for both real and fantasy football.

Which echoes everything I have been saying about Charbs being a better bet for receptions / short yardage.

I'd disagree with that scouting report. Charbonnet is a solid checkdown option, but he an average receiver in my opinion, he's not a guy I would ever expect to be featured (especially in this offense) in the passing game. He's not a great route runner or separator, he just has good hands. That's probably still better than Walker, but I think counting on that as a valuable part of Charbs production is a mistake, Seattle is maybe the least valuable 3rd down job in the NFL.

From a redraft perspective, I see Walker as a 4th round pick, and Charbonnet as a 9th rounder. I'll likely have zero Walker shares. Dynasty wise, I have Charbonnet as 1.9, and would maybe go as high as 1.3 for Walker if I were a RB away. I think Walker is a better overall runner, with FAR superior big-play ability. I'd be awfully surprised if he lost that starting job at any point.

I mean, you’re basically disagreeing with Pete Carroll.

Disagreeing with what Pete Carroll thinks and disagreeing with what Pete Carroll says are two very different things.

Heck, in that same sentence he says Kenneth Walker is a really good receiver as well.

Every person he ever drafts can do every part of football amazingly.

OK, Pete Carroll drafted a running back in the second round. Does not qualify as something he’s done?

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I don't know where this idea came from that Charbonnet is going to get all the receptions

Didn’t say he’d get all the receptions.

The idea probably comes from Charbonnet’s college film and pre-draft scouting reports that shows/says he’s a fluid receiver, and the fact that Walker really isn’t.


ETA: this is from the link Faust just posted.

Charbonnet comes into the NFL with the receiving chops and the ability to grind through tackles, making for a juicy fantasy prospect.

And

Charbonnet’s receiving chops are what the team was after and in an interview with Seattle Sports 710, Carroll stated “He’s so versatile. He just will fit in and be a great addition. And really, we’re gonna find out how far he can take it in terms of the receiving part of it. We know he’s really good at it. But so is Kenneth [Walker], so those guys will be battling. And we also went all the way down to get Kenny McIntosh because of his versatility. There’s so many positives about these guys.”

About Walker

While Walker did produce for the fantasy crowd last year, he struggled as a pass catcher, posting the eighth-worst yards per route run (.85) among RBs with at least 15 targets. Charbonnet can come in on those crucial third downs and goal-line situations and produce solid numbers for both real and fantasy football.

Which echoes everything I have been saying about Charbs being a better bet for receptions / short yardage.

I'd disagree with that scouting report. Charbonnet is a solid checkdown option, but he an average receiver in my opinion, he's not a guy I would ever expect to be featured (especially in this offense) in the passing game. He's not a great route runner or separator, he just has good hands. That's probably still better than Walker, but I think counting on that as a valuable part of Charbs production is a mistake, Seattle is maybe the least valuable 3rd down job in the NFL.

From a redraft perspective, I see Walker as a 4th round pick, and Charbonnet as a 9th rounder. I'll likely have zero Walker shares. Dynasty wise, I have Charbonnet as 1.9, and would maybe go as high as 1.3 for Walker if I were a RB away. I think Walker is a better overall runner, with FAR superior big-play ability. I'd be awfully surprised if he lost that starting job at any point.

I mean, you’re basically disagreeing with Pete Carroll.

Disagreeing with what Pete Carroll thinks and disagreeing with what Pete Carroll says are two very different things.

Heck, in that same sentence he says Kenneth Walker is a really good receiver as well.

Every person he ever drafts can do every part of football amazingly.

OK, Pete Carroll drafted a running back in the second round. Does not qualify as something he’s done?

That discussion I quoted was purely about Charbonnet being a great receiver that is going to get all the receptions. Trav said that he's really more just a checkdown guy, not really anything special as a receiver, to which you disagreed and said Pete Carroll thinks otherwise.

My point was really Pete Carroll says otherwise, we have no idea what he thinks. Pete Carroll also says Kenneth Walker is a great receiver. If Pete Carroll had Jordan Howard he would say he is a great receiver.

A Pete Carroll quote about a guy being good at a particular thing or having a particular role doesn't really mean much because he basically says everyone is great at everything and can fill every role.

 

[phandango]

I really wasn’t planning on taking Charb 1.12 but I’m leaning that way now over Mingo and hooker (sf)

In an FFPC superflex best ball dynasty rookie draft, I took Charbonnet at 1.11 as the RB3. I put the pick on the block but there were no takers. Other guys on the board were Zay Flowers, Devon Achane, Michael Mayer, Kendre Miller. (Will Levis went the pick before.) These types of FFPC leagues tend to value RB much more than WR, and even though I passed on Charbonnet when I've had the chance to take him in other leagues, I felt he was the best player here, even though I didn't need another RB.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I really wasn’t planning on taking Charb 1.12 but I’m leaning that way now over Mingo and hooker (sf)

In an FFPC superflex best ball dynasty rookie draft, I took Charbonnet at 1.11 as the RB3. I put the pick on the block but there were no takers. Other guys on the board were Zay Flowers, Devon Achane, Michael Mayer, Kendre Miller. (Will Levis went the pick before.) These types of FFPC leagues tend to value RB much more than WR, and even though I passed on Charbonnet when I've had the chance to take him in other leagues, I felt he was the best player here, even though I didn't need another RB.

I don’t think the pick needs to be defended this much. If he’s your best player on the board then situation be damned.

RB is a volatile position. The chances seem pretty good that Charbonnet will get some high value touches. At least enough to make both members of this RBBC Ff-worthy.

there’s a pretty good body of evidence that Walker wasn’t getting it done consistently or efficiently.

I’ll concede it’s possible that Carroll just took Charbs because “best player on the board” or “insurance policy in case Walker goes down”, but I think it has to be at the very least considered that he took Charbs to get elements of the game that Walker was deficient in.

I struggle with the suggestion that Walker’s value will be unaffected by Charbonnet’s presence.

Again, I don’t plan on investing in either in redraft. But if I were drafting a startup (which I will be soon) I might consider Charbonnet if he slides in the rookie draft. I believe there’s enough talent there to bet on.

 

[-OZ-]

I really wasn’t planning on taking Charb 1.12 but I’m leaning that way now over Mingo and hooker (sf)

In an FFPC superflex best ball dynasty rookie draft, I took Charbonnet at 1.11 as the RB3. I put the pick on the block but there were no takers. Other guys on the board were Zay Flowers, Devon Achane, Michael Mayer, Kendre Miller. (Will Levis went the pick before.) These types of FFPC leagues tend to value RB much more than WR, and even though I passed on Charbonnet when I've had the chance to take him in other leagues, I felt he was the best player here, even though I didn't need another RB.

With Kincaid gone and RB value there that seems perfectly legit. My league starts 2 RB, 3 WR and 2 flex with ppr and I’m comfortable with RBs so flowers has slightly more appeal but it isn’t by much.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I struggle with the suggestion that Walker’s value will be unaffected by Charbonnet’s presence

That’s only Walker owners sticking their heads in the sand. Maybe he is only “the backup RB”, but I’d feel a little uneasy if a RB on my roster’s team spent a 2nd round pick on the RB almost everyone saw as the third best back in this draft. To say it’s meaningless seems disingenuous at best.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I struggle with the suggestion that Walker’s value will be unaffected by Charbonnet’s presence

That’s only Walker owners sticking their heads in the sand. Maybe he is only “the backup RB”, but I’d feel a little uneasy if a RB on my roster’s team spent a 2nd round pick on the RB almost everyone saw as the third best back in this draft. To say it’s meaningless seems disingenuous at best.

Hey, I get it - as an ETN shareholder I didn’t love the Tank pick, but I’m realistic about it. I believe they’ll fill different needs. It’s not much different than How they used Hasty, and J.Robinson before him.

Similarly I believe Walker will still have value - I’m in no way saying he’s going to get passed up by Charbonnet. But I wouldn’t be shocked to see him as more of a RB2/Flex than as a RB1.

I would be shocked to see him maintain his RB1 status, but a lot of that will depend on how productive the Seahawks offense is, and how the high value touches are divided.

It also occurs to me that JSN might impact both of Seattles young RBs, in that he’s going to fill a short yardage role that might reduce some of those short-to-intermediate yardage carries. West coast offense and all that.

From a football standpoint I’m impressed by the Seahawks offense retooling post-Russ. From a FF perspective, it’s tough to predict until we see it.

 

[Payne]

I struggle with the suggestion that Walker’s value will be unaffected by Charbonnet’s presence

That’s only Walker owners sticking their heads in the sand. Maybe he is only “the backup RB”, but I’d feel a little uneasy if a RB on my roster’s team spent a 2nd round pick on the RB almost everyone saw as the third best back in this draft. To say it’s meaningless seems disingenuous at best.

That isn't the case with me.

I understand he is going to take touches away from Walker. But Walker didn't get all the touches last year either. I think Seattle took the best player on the board and upgraded their backup RB position. You said it yourself, many saw Zach as the 3rd best RB in this draft. Some think Walker is a top 5 RB in the NFL. I know I have been made fun of for pounding that home, but it's true. For Zach to overtake Walker, he would have to be a top 5 RB in the NFL. Is he? Perhaps. We will find out.

Somebody else mentioned it, but I see it very similar to Chubb and Hunt. And, as good as Hunt was, Chubb still was an RB1. Not sure why it's so hard to imagine the same with Walker.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Somebody else mentioned it, but I see it very similar to Chubb and Hunt. And, as good as Hunt was, Chubb still was an RB1. Not sure why it's so hard to imagine the same with Walker.

Because Chubb >> Walker

Chubb wasn’t 51st out of 52 qualifiers in expected yards per run.

Chubb falls forward, rarely losing yards.

Also, Hunt has a different skill set than Chubb, whereas Charbonnet is an excellent between the tackles rusher, good in short yardage, and a very good receiver. He’s 6’, 220 to Walker’s 214 LBs. Chubb is 227, while Hunt is 201. So if anything, Charbonnet is closer to Chubb in this comparison.

As such, I believe there’s more to be concerned with having Charbonnet in Seattle than Hunt in CLE because the players/roles aren’t analogous. Cleveland had a pretty well defined set of roles. TBD in Seattle, but if I were a betting man, “Charbonnet as a backup” would be the last bet I’d make.

 

[menobrown]

Chubb wasn’t 51st out of 52 qualifiers in expected yards per run

I really don't put a lot of stock the EPwhatever stats. Chubb's a great runner and I don't think Walker is in his class as a pure runner but I could cite were Walker placed 16th in rushing yards over expected per attempt. That's one of many reasons I don't put a lot of stock in these stats, seems like a lot of them out there to fit whatever narrative you want but also who is deciding what is expected and why do we all have to agree with it? I'm being serious. It's like PFF blocking grades to me. It's a starting point to discuss a players performance for something that may not be so easily quantifiable but it does not mean it's accurate either.

He’s 6’, 220 to Walker’s 214 LBs. Chubb is 227, while Hunt is 201

You getting these from the team websites? I'm not sure how accurate they are but I'm sure it's wildly off on Hunt who was 216 at the combine and does not look like he's lost weight.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Chubb wasn’t 51st out of 52 qualifiers in expected yards per run

I really don't put a lot of stock the EPwhatever stats. Chubb's a great runner and I don't think Walker is in his class as a pure runner but I could cite were Walker placed 16th in rushing yards over expected per attempt. That's one of many reasons I don't put a lot of stock in these stats, seems like a lot of them out there to fit whatever narrative you want but also who is deciding what is expected and why do we all have to agree with it? I'm being serious. It's like PFF blocking grades to me. It's a starting point to discuss a players performance for something that may not be so easily quantifiable but it does not mean it's accurate either.

He’s 6’, 220 to Walker’s 214 LBs. Chubb is 227, while Hunt is 201

You getting these from the team websites? I'm not sure how accurate they are but I'm sure it's wildly off on Hunt who was 216 at the combine and does not look like he's lost weight.

All possible.

I still don’t see an analogy to Chubb/Hunt though.

 

[IHEARTFF]

I struggle with the suggestion that Walker’s value will be unaffected by Charbonnet’s presence

That’s only Walker owners sticking their heads in the sand. Maybe he is only “the backup RB”, but I’d feel a little uneasy if a RB on my roster’s team spent a 2nd round pick on the RB almost everyone saw as the third best back in this draft. To say it’s meaningless seems disingenuous at best.

Hey, I get it - as an ETN shareholder I didn’t love the Tank pick, but I’m realistic about it. I believe they’ll fill different needs. It’s not much different than How they used Hasty, and J.Robinson before him.

Similarly I believe Walker will still have value - I’m in no way saying he’s going to get passed up by Charbonnet. But I wouldn’t be shocked to see him as more of a RB2/Flex than as a RB1.

I would be shocked to see him maintain his RB1 status, but a lot of that will depend on how productive the Seahawks offense is, and how the high value touches are divided.

It also occurs to me that JSN might impact both of Seattles young RBs, in that he’s going to fill a short yardage role that might reduce some of those short-to-intermediate yardage carries. West coast offense and all that.

From a football standpoint I’m impressed by the Seahawks offense retooling post-Russ. From a FF perspective, it’s tough to predict until we see it.

Buy Geno

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Buy Geno

I tried in both leagues. No dice.

 

[Payne]

Somebody else mentioned it, but I see it very similar to Chubb and Hunt. And, as good as Hunt was, Chubb still was an RB1. Not sure why it's so hard to imagine the same with Walker.

Because Chubb >> Walker

Chubb wasn’t 51st out of 52 qualifiers in expected yards per run.

Chubb falls forward, rarely losing yards.

Also, Hunt has a different skill set than Chubb, whereas Charbonnet is an excellent between the tackles rusher, good in short yardage, and a very good receiver. He’s 6’, 220 to Walker’s 214 LBs. Chubb is 227, while Hunt is 201. So if anything, Charbonnet is closer to Chubb in this comparison.

As such, I believe there’s more to be concerned with having Charbonnet in Seattle than Hunt in CLE because the players/roles aren’t analogous. Cleveland had a pretty well defined set of roles. TBD in Seattle, but if I were a betting man, “Charbonnet as a backup” would be the last bet I’d make.

Your opinion

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Somebody else mentioned it, but I see it very similar to Chubb and Hunt. And, as good as Hunt was, Chubb still was an RB1. Not sure why it's so hard to imagine the same with Walker.

Because Chubb >> Walker

Chubb wasn’t 51st out of 52 qualifiers in expected yards per run.

Chubb falls forward, rarely losing yards.

Also, Hunt has a different skill set than Chubb, whereas Charbonnet is an excellent between the tackles rusher, good in short yardage, and a very good receiver. He’s 6’, 220 to Walker’s 214 LBs. Chubb is 227, while Hunt is 201. So if anything, Charbonnet is closer to Chubb in this comparison.

As such, I believe there’s more to be concerned with having Charbonnet in Seattle than Hunt in CLE because the players/roles aren’t analogous. Cleveland had a pretty well defined set of roles. TBD in Seattle, but if I were a betting man, “Charbonnet as a backup” would be the last bet I’d make.

Your opinion

Definitely

I know, I know, top 5 talent.

 

[-OZ-]

Somebody else mentioned it, but I see it very similar to Chubb and Hunt. And, as good as Hunt was, Chubb still was an RB1. Not sure why it's so hard to imagine the same with Walker.

Because Chubb >> Walker

Chubb wasn’t 51st out of 52 qualifiers in expected yards per run.

Chubb falls forward, rarely losing yards.

Also, Hunt has a different skill set than Chubb, whereas Charbonnet is an excellent between the tackles rusher, good in short yardage, and a very good receiver. He’s 6’, 220 to Walker’s 214 LBs. Chubb is 227, while Hunt is 201. So if anything, Charbonnet is closer to Chubb in this comparison.

As such, I believe there’s more to be concerned with having Charbonnet in Seattle than Hunt in CLE because the players/roles aren’t analogous. Cleveland had a pretty well defined set of roles. TBD in Seattle, but if I were a betting man, “Charbonnet as a backup” would be the last bet I’d make.

Your opinion

Definitely

I know, I know, top 5 talent.

Chubb is arguably the top runner in the NFL (outside of Nashville)

 

[Faust]

Seahawks Observations: Salk’s takeaways from rookie minicamp

Excerpt:

Of course I watched the running backs and yes, I was absolutely enthralled with Zach Charbonnet. I’m not sure how to describe him. He is taller than most running backs with a bigger upper body than you usually see. He isn’t built like Marshawn at all, but I found myself thinking about Beast Mode as I watched Charbonnet pinball around. He has an unpredictability to his movements that was a little Marshawn-esque. I see why they call him the Terminator.

 

[League Champion]

Charbonet is a beast but I'm out with Walker there, unless it's a cuff situation but that's an expensive cuff.

 

[Faust]

Corbin K. Smith @CorbinSmithNFL

Zach Charbonnet doing agility ladder work at #Seahawks minicamp yesterday.

https://twitter.com/corbinsmithnfl/status/1657814139337834500?s=21

Zach Charbonnet showing off his hands at #Seahawks minicamp.

https://twitter.com/corbinsmithnfl/status/1657816407982362626?s=21

 

[Aznflyer14]

Corbin K. Smith @CorbinSmithNFL

Zach Charbonnet doing agility ladder work at #Seahawks minicamp yesterday.

https://twitter.com/corbinsmithnfl/status/1657814139337834500?s=21

I was watching his highlights and he does show a huge physicality, which explained HC Pete Carroll's fondess for this guy. The above twitter really has opened my eyes with his impressive quick agility.

Can we get this guy standing next to Walker III? They both probably look like Metcalf and Lockett in RB room.

 

[titusbramble]

Just picked up in rookie draft at pick 14 (SF), was just going to pick whoever fell out of him and Achane but actually got the choice and went here, let's hope this isn't quite the enormous cluster it seems on paper

 

[Willie Mays Hayes]

If you think back over the Pete Carroll years in Seattle, Zach Charbonnet is exactly the type of RB he covets. Bruising back with agility and good hands. It would have been interesting if Charbonnet came out in 2022 if he was the Seahawks pick in the 2nd round. You can’t write KW3 off but you wonder if he isn’t somehow traded to another team for value at another position. A lot of football to be played before a decision like that is made but I can see it happening.

 

[Payne]

Walker is still being drafted as a top 12 RB in FPPC. So a little bit of a downgrade, but not huge.

• 
  
• ADP -- the current ADP on FFPC

RANK	POS	PLAYER	TEAM	ADP
1	WR	Justin Jefferson	MIN	1.27
2	WR	Ja'Marr Chase	CIN	2.9
3	RB	Christian McCaffrey	SF	3.03
4	TE	Travis Kelce	KC	3.9
5	WR	Tyreek Hill	MIA	5.4
6	WR	Cooper Kupp	LAR	7.03
7	RB	Austin Ekeler	LAC	8.17
8	RB	Bijan Robinson	ATL	8.17
9	WR	Stefon Diggs	BUF	9.3
10	RB	Jonathan Taylor	IND	9.93
11	WR	CeeDee Lamb	DAL	10.53
12	WR	A.J. Brown	PHI	11.77
13	RB	Saquon Barkley	NYG	12.77
14	WR	Davante Adams	LV	14.07
15	WR	Garrett Wilson	NYJ	14.77
16	WR	Amon-Ra St. Brown	DET	15.03
17	WR	Jaylen Waddle	MIA	19.17
18	RB	Josh Jacobs	LV	19.17
19	WR	DeVonta Smith	PHI	21.07
20	RB	Nick Chubb	CLE	21.5
21	TE	Mark Andrews	BAL	22.37
22	RB	Breece Hall	NYJ	22.77
23	RB	Tony Pollard	DAL	23.07
24	WR	Chris Olave	NO	26.5
25	TE	T.J. Hockenson	MIN	26.87
26	WR	Tee Higgins	CIN	27.57
27	RB	Derrick Henry	TEN	27.97
28	WR	DK Metcalf	SEA	28.23
29	QB	Jalen Hurts	PHI	29.77
30	RB	Najee Harris	PIT	29.97
31	RB	Kenneth Walker	SEA	30.3

 

[Payne]

Walker currently being taken as the 8th RB in FFPC Best Ball. Ahead of some really good RB's.

RANK	POS	PLAYER	TEAM	ADP
1	WR	Justin Jefferson	MIN	1.36
2	RB	Christian McCaffrey	SF	2.42
3	WR	Ja'Marr Chase	CIN	3.63
4	RB	Austin Ekeler	LAC	5.68
5	TE	Travis Kelce	KC	5.76
6	WR	Cooper Kupp	LA	7.5
7	WR	Tyreek Hill	MIA	8.31
8	RB	Jonathan Taylor	IND	9.79
9	RB	Saquon Barkley	NYG	9.83
10	WR	Davante Adams	LV	11.51
11	WR	Stefon Diggs	BUF	11.76
12	WR	CeeDee Lamb	DAL	13.34
13	WR	A.J. Brown	PHI	14.82
14	RB	Derrick Henry	TEN	15.9
15	RB	Bijan Robinson	ATL	16.48
16	WR	Amon-Ra St. Brown	DET	19.2
17	RB	Nick Chubb	CLE	19.42
18	QB	Josh Allen	BUF	19.45
19	QB	Patrick Mahomes	KC	20.78
20	WR	Jaylen Waddle	MIA	22.35
21	RB	Kenneth Walker	SEA	22.83
22	RB	Josh Jacobs	LV	23.92
23	QB	Jalen Hurts	PHI	25.75
24	WR	Tee Higgins	CIN	27.46
25	WR	Garrett Wilson	NYJ	27.92
26	RB	Travis Etienne	JAX	28.16
27	RB	Najee Harris	PIT	29.55
28	WR	Deebo Samuel	SF	29.91
29	RB	Breece Hall	NYJ	30.58
30	WR	DeVonta Smith	PHI	32.11
31	WR	DK Metcalf	SEA	33.19
32	RB	Rhamondre Stevenson	NE	34.24
33	RB	Tony Pollard	DAL	34.97

 

[Faust]

Fantasy Football Rookie Running Back Spotlight: Zach Charbonnet's Fantasy Value And Ranking

 

[Faust]

Matty F. Brown @mattyfbrown
#Seahawks OC Shane Waldron on 2nd round RB Zach Charbonnet:

"Zach's been another guy, really similar to Olu, where he's stepped in the building and you get that true pro feel from the guy right away. You know he's really serious about his business." (1)

https://twitter.com/mattyfbrown/status/1661874175416336384?s=21

"And then you notice his size and speed at running back. I know, you know, you can't tell a whole lot about what's gonna happen, when the pads go on when we're out here right now." (2)

https://twitter.com/mattyfbrown/status/1661874236615544834?s=21

"But you do get the feel where he's playing at a tempo. You know, he's a big back. Uh, he's got a toughness about him and he's really gathering all the information and picking up the offense quickly." (3)

https://twitter.com/mattyfbrown/status/1661874284522872832?s=21

 

[Faust]

Brady Henderson @BradyHenderson

It’s been easy to notice how natural rookie RBs Zach Charbonnet and Kenny McIntosh are as pass-catchers, no surprise since they caught 37 and 43 passes last season, respectively. Both are on the far side in this red zone passing drill, Charbonnet second up and McIntosh last.

https://twitter.com/bradyhenderson/status/1661861518475161600?s=21

 

[Faust]

Huard: Charbonnet has fewest adjustments to make of all Seahawks rookies

 

[Faust]

The News Tribune's Gregg Bell said don't "be surprised at the playing time and opportunities" rookie RB Zach Charbonnet gets this season.​

Charbonnet has impressed teammates, coaches, and Seahawks beat writers during OTAs. “Zach does everything well," head coach Pete Carroll said Thursday. "He’s just a complete ball player.” Charbonnet, taken with the 52nd pick of the 2023 NFL Draft, could be the Seahawks' primary pass-catching running back after Ken Walker struggled as a pass catcher in 2023. Charbonnet is a solid draft target for fantasy players who largely fade running backs in the early rounds. Rotoworld analysts recently broke down the Seattle backfield and how fantasy managers should value Walker and Charbonnet.
RELATED:

• Ken Walker

SOURCE: TheNewsTribune.com
Jun 9, 2023, 9:38 AM ET

 

[Dr. Octopus]

The News Tribune's Gregg Bell said don't "be surprised at the playing time and opportunities" rookie RB Zach Charbonnet gets this season.​

Charbonnet has impressed teammates, coaches, and Seahawks beat writers during OTAs. “Zach does everything well," head coach Pete Carroll said Thursday. "He’s just a complete ball player.” Charbonnet, taken with the 52nd pick of the 2023 NFL Draft, could be the Seahawks' primary pass-catching running back after Ken Walker struggled as a pass catcher in 2023. Charbonnet is a solid draft target for fantasy players who largely fade running backs in the early rounds. Rotoworld analysts recently broke down the Seattle backfield and how fantasy managers should value Walker and Charbonnet.
RELATED:

• Ken Walker

SOURCE: TheNewsTribune.com
Jun 9, 2023, 9:38 AM ET

anyone paying attention won't

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

The News Tribune's Gregg Bell said don't "be surprised at the playing time and opportunities" rookie RB Zach Charbonnet gets this season.​

Charbonnet has impressed teammates, coaches, and Seahawks beat writers during OTAs. “Zach does everything well," head coach Pete Carroll said Thursday. "He’s just a complete ball player.” Charbonnet, taken with the 52nd pick of the 2023 NFL Draft, could be the Seahawks' primary pass-catching running back after Ken Walker struggled as a pass catcher in 2023. Charbonnet is a solid draft target for fantasy players who largely fade running backs in the early rounds. Rotoworld analysts recently broke down the Seattle backfield and how fantasy managers should value Walker and Charbonnet.
RELATED:

• Ken Walker

SOURCE: TheNewsTribune.com
Jun 9, 2023, 9:38 AM ET

anyone paying attention won't

Yeah, I mean you and I have been saying this since pretty much the second he was drafted in the 2nd round.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

2nd Year guy with a much better grasp of the playbook and offense managed to rack 1,200 yds, only 228 carries, 9TDs, 27 receptions...11 starts?
I like ZC but to envision him pushing Walker to the bench is absurd.
RBBC to some degree, that might stink but NFL coaches don't care about FF. Carroll has 2 weapons now at his disposal in the back field and will take immense pressure off Geno Smith
I like what Seattle is building, think they will do very well this season

Still see Walker getting the lion's share especially early(4-6 weeks) in the season with more of a share at mid season to keep players fresh.
2024 will be ZC's breakout after he has a year of seasoning under his belt.

 

[Payne]

2nd Year guy with a much better grasp of the playbook and offense managed to rack 1,200 yds, only 228 carries, 9TDs, 27 receptions...
I like ZC but to envision him pushing Walker to the bench is absurd.
RBBC to some degree, that might stink but NFL coaches don't care about FF. Carroll has 2 weapons now at his disposal in the back field and will take immense pressure off Geno Smith
I like what Seattle is building, think they will do very well this season

Still see walker getting the lion's share early in the season with more of a slit mid season to keep players fresh.
2024 will be ZC's breakout after he has a year of seasoning under his belt.

Shhhhhhhhhhhh......let them think what they will. The exact video in the post suggests Walkers roll will not change. He's good. Very good.
MSU did not utilize him in the passing game. Kenneth Walker also played WR in high school. So he can catch.

I will gladly take Walker at his ADP. He showed up big last year. He is a homerun threat every time he gets the ball. Oh, and he plays for a coach who has continued to show loyalty to vets.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I can see it now.

It’s week 14, and Walker / Charbonnet have been splitting touches 60-40

Walker leads the backfield but Charbonnet has dominated receptions.

They’ve split GL & have similar TD numbers.

People in this topic, “It’s all part of the plan. Clearly they’re keeping Walker healthy so he can take over during the playoffs, and gearing up for Walker to dominate this backfield in 2024.”

Cmon

 

[Dr. Octopus]

2nd Year guy with a much better grasp of the playbook and offense managed to rack 1,200 yds, only 228 carries, 9TDs, 27 receptions...
I like ZC but to envision him pushing Walker to the bench is absurd.
RBBC to some degree, that might stink but NFL coaches don't care about FF. Carroll has 2 weapons now at his disposal in the back field and will take immense pressure off Geno Smith
I like what Seattle is building, think they will do very well this season

Still see walker getting the lion's share early in the season with more of a slit mid season to keep players fresh.
2024 will be ZC's breakout after he has a year of seasoning under his belt.

Shhhhhhhhhhhh......let them think what they will. The exact video in the post suggests Walkers roll will not change. He's good. Very good.
MSU did not utilize him in the passing game. Kenneth Walker also played WR in high school. So he can catch.

I will gladly take Walker at his ADP. He showed up big last year. He is a homerun threat every time he gets the ball. Oh, and he plays for a coach who has continued to show loyalty to vets.

For the record I don’t think Zach will overtake Walker. The back and forth I’ve had with you concerns the level of impact Zach’s presence will have on Walker. This will be a split backfield in 2023. I’d predict 60-40 in Walkers favor overall, but if the 40% includes the 3rd down role and GL carries then that seriously cuts into Walker’s value while giving Zach Flex value.
Charbonet is much better in the passing game than Walker. He’s also a bigger back - I can’t yet say for sure that leads to GL work at this point, but it surely wouldn’t be surprising.

I think Walker is a very good back that just had his fantasy value somewhat torpedoed unfortunately. He’ll have his big weeks for sure though. He has big play ability and will get TDs even if he isn’t the GL back.

 

[Birdie048]

For the record I don’t think Zach will overtake Walker. The back and forth I’ve had with you concerns the level of impact Zach’s presence will have on Walker. This will be a split backfield in 2023. I’d predict 60-40 in Walkers favor overall, but if the 40% includes the 3rd down role and GL carries then that seriously cuts into Walker’s value while giving Zach Flex value.
Charbonet is much better in the passing game than Walker. He’s also a bigger back - I can’t say for now that leads to GL work at this point, but it surely wouldn’t be surprising.

I think Walker is a very good back that just had his fantasy value somewhat torpedoed unfortunately. He’ll have his big weeks for sure though.

Bolded is significant impact. If that happens, it moderately lowers KWIII value (TD are hard to gauge) and in PPR, ZC rises.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

For the record I don’t think Zach will overtake Walker. The back and forth I’ve had with you concerns the level of impact Zach’s presence will have on Walker. This will be a split backfield in 2023. I’d predict 60-40 in Walkers favor overall, but if the 40% includes the 3rd down role and GL carries then that seriously cuts into Walker’s value while giving Zach Flex value.
Charbonet is much better in the passing game than Walker. He’s also a bigger back - I can’t say for now that leads to GL work at this point, but it surely wouldn’t be surprising.

I think Walker is a very good back that just had his fantasy value somewhat torpedoed unfortunately. He’ll have his big weeks for sure though.

Bolded is significant impact. If that happens, it moderately lowers KWIII value (TD are hard to gauge) and in PPR, ZC rises.

Yes. To be fair neither role is guaranteed yet - but even last year Deejay Dallas was getting 3rd down work at Walker’s expense. I’ll be surprised if Charbonet isn’t used more there than Walker. As far as GL work, Zach is 220 and Walker 210. It’s no guarantee the bigger back gets the role but it’s not controversial to say that’s how it usually goes. We’ll see there.

 

[TripItUp]

Charbonnet is such a JAG that I would bet against him getting 40%.

More like 25%.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Charbonnet is such a JAG that I would bet against him getting 40%.

More like 25%.

So the Seahawks are terrible talent evaluators and drafted a JAG in the 2nd round?

Oooookay pal. Whatever you say.