Redskins Getting Ruined By Media Today (1 Viewer)

[cscmtp]

Okay, during the last 3 years, Moss has 20 total TDs, Coles, 12. The toe is a factor.

 

[Jason Wood]

Okay, during the last 3 years, Moss has 20 total TDs, Coles, 12. The toe is a factor.

The toe is a factor, yes...but that's not what you said...you specifically said Moss had more TDs in his career.

 

[cscmtp]

And its not just the numbers. Coles wanted out. Refused to play. So would the Skins have been better off sitting him? NOT trading for Moss? Why bash the Skins when they did what they HAD to do. Coles was the d1ckhole here. He wanted out, he got it. Washington didn't exactly have the easiest situation there...

 

[Jason Wood]

And its not just the numbers. Coles wanted out. Refused to play. So would the Skins have been better off sitting him? NOT trading for Moss? Why bash the Skins when they did what they HAD to do. Coles was the d1ckhole here. He wanted out, he got it. Washington didn't exactly have the easiest situation there...

A valid point re: Coles...only one problem. Moss is sitting out of mini camp and has already notified the Skins HE wants a new contract too!

 

[cscmtp]

and if i know Gibbs, Moss won't be here very long either. And i'm glad. Gibbs is in charge, and if these young spoiled brats don't want to follow his lead, then fudge em. Cut 'em loose. Everyone praises the Patriots (as they should) for being a TEAM. Gibbs is trying to do the same thing. He'll cut the selfish me first guys and build a TEAM. I think the Skins will either end up with Williams at #9, or Jones or White at #25. We'll have a new WR this year, that's for sure.

 

[jurb26]

ou make the assumption Jason looked at raw stats and came up with an arguement.

Not an assumtion, btw. That's clearly what he did. Had he watched every skins game last year he wouldn't even have brought this topic up.  As I said before,  coles and gardner dropped many balls and they didn't catch many many more catchable balls. Their mistakes killed many a drive for the skins. Cooley had better hands than those guys. Coles was also injured and he's still got the injury. Another strike against keeping him.  And then there's the fact that he's a cry baby. Didn't get enough catches and cried like a b*tch about it.  Still not sure where you heard that Gardner didn't want to be here.

Skins made that decision. Gardner had little choice in the matter regardless of what his desire might be.

Hey Footballfan,Sounds like you're a diehard Skins fan. In any event, I've watched plenty of Skins games, and took two in last year in person (PHI and D.C.). As someone else pointed out, my stats merely back up my contention that Moss + Patten is a downgrade from Gardner + Coles; it's a shame you can't see that. But it also seems to me that if you watched every Skins game, you couldn't have seen Patten or Moss play too often, so how can you tell WITH YOUR EYES that they're upgrades?

I would also suggest that if you're going to be taken seriously around here, I wouldn't suggest Patrick Ramsey could be the best QB in the NFC East.

Could the Skins offense improve in 2005? OF COURSE! They could finish the year 28th in the league and it would be an improvement. But that was not the point of this discussion.

Putting aside stats, as I've already asked once, explain how Moss + Patten are better receivers...

Are they better blockers?

Better hands?

Faster?

Stronger?

Run better routes?

Score more touchdowns?

Better locker room guys?

More durable?

Better pedigrees?

Something? Anything?

I have no problem with someone taking the opposite side in a debate, and while you can discount stats all you want, I beg of you to explain how statements like:

"Neither Coles or Gardner are much of a scoring threat"

Coles and Gardner have scored more touchdowns (42) in less games (141) than Moss and Patten...that's not using stats to skew an argument, that's proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that what YOU spoke as truth was in fact an outright falsehood.Oh, and Patten is faster (4.37) than Gardner (4.43) by a whopping 0.06 of a second...and Patten's 40-time was taken 10 years ago.

All due respect to some nice posts, but it seems to me that all you have really done is show Coles and Gardner have had better careers thus far. That in no way though means that they were or are better fits for Wash at this point in time. I think anyone who watched Wash last year could clearly see that the WR position was one of sever need for them to address. What I'd like to know most is how you can be sure that Coles and Gardner are so much better for Wash heading forward? I mean they had their chance and were unable to get it done were they not? It was/is time for some new faces to try and spark the O regardless of who wanted out and who wanted who to leave. Are Moss and Patten the answer, I don't know. This team however was PATHETIC at passing the ball last year, on top of that they had putrid WR play. I fail to see how Moss and Patten could realistically do worse but am open to suggestions.

 

[Johnny Ice]

And its not just the numbers. Coles wanted out. Refused to play. So would the Skins have been better off sitting him? NOT trading for Moss? Why bash the Skins when they did what they HAD to do. Coles was the d1ckhole here. He wanted out, he got it. Washington didn't exactly have the easiest situation there...

A valid point re: Coles...only one problem. Moss is sitting out of mini camp and has already notified the Skins HE wants a new contract too!

C'mon, Moss is sitting out of voluntary workouts. We'll see what happens when mini-camp rolls around.

 

[Jason Wood]

ou make the assumption Jason looked at raw stats and came up with an arguement.

Not an assumtion, btw. That's clearly what he did. Had he watched every skins game last year he wouldn't even have brought this topic up.  As I said before,  coles and gardner dropped many balls and they didn't catch many many more catchable balls. Their mistakes killed many a drive for the skins. Cooley had better hands than those guys. Coles was also injured and he's still got the injury. Another strike against keeping him.  And then there's the fact that he's a cry baby. Didn't get enough catches and cried like a b*tch about it.  Still not sure where you heard that Gardner didn't want to be here.

Skins made that decision. Gardner had little choice in the matter regardless of what his desire might be.

Hey Footballfan,Sounds like you're a diehard Skins fan. In any event, I've watched plenty of Skins games, and took two in last year in person (PHI and D.C.). As someone else pointed out, my stats merely back up my contention that Moss + Patten is a downgrade from Gardner + Coles; it's a shame you can't see that. But it also seems to me that if you watched every Skins game, you couldn't have seen Patten or Moss play too often, so how can you tell WITH YOUR EYES that they're upgrades?

I would also suggest that if you're going to be taken seriously around here, I wouldn't suggest Patrick Ramsey could be the best QB in the NFC East.

Could the Skins offense improve in 2005? OF COURSE! They could finish the year 28th in the league and it would be an improvement. But that was not the point of this discussion.

Putting aside stats, as I've already asked once, explain how Moss + Patten are better receivers...

Are they better blockers?

Better hands?

Faster?

Stronger?

Run better routes?

Score more touchdowns?

Better locker room guys?

More durable?

Better pedigrees?

Something? Anything?

I have no problem with someone taking the opposite side in a debate, and while you can discount stats all you want, I beg of you to explain how statements like:

"Neither Coles or Gardner are much of a scoring threat"

Coles and Gardner have scored more touchdowns (42) in less games (141) than Moss and Patten...that's not using stats to skew an argument, that's proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that what YOU spoke as truth was in fact an outright falsehood.Oh, and Patten is faster (4.37) than Gardner (4.43) by a whopping 0.06 of a second...and Patten's 40-time was taken 10 years ago.

All due respect to some nice posts, but it seems to me that all you have really doen is show Coles and Gardner have had better careers thus far. That in no way though means that they were or are better fits for Wash at this pont in time. I think anyone who watched Wash last year could clearly see that the WR position was one of sever need for them to address. What I'd like to know most is how you can be sure that Coles and Gardner are so much better for Wash heading forward? I mean they had their chance and were unable to get it done were they not? It was/is time for some new faces to try and spark the O regardless of who wanted out and who wanted who to leave. Are Moss and Patten the answer, I don't know. This team however was PATHETIC at passing the ball last year, on top of that they had putrid WR play. I fail to see how Moss and Patten could realistically do worse but am open to suggestions.

Hey jurb,I 100% agree with this. Given where the Skins finished last year offensively, and the issues with Coles' desire to leave and Gibbs' desire to see Gardner leave, I concur that SOMETHING, ANYTHING was worth attempting. Ultimately we won't know how this all works out until everyone suits up, that's the great thing about football.

But this conversation started essentially because I called into question why some folks were assuming that these moves were upgrades. If these players all perform to their careers thus far, it's at best a lateral move...but certainly, if you get career bests out of Moss and Patten, it's not hard to project improvement. But improvement is a relative term. My point is, based on their careers, swapping these 4 WRs isn't enough to vault the Skins back into offensive mediocrity, much less the elite.

1) Returning Jansen, 2) signing Rabach, and 3) everyone another year wiser and comfortable in Gibbs system are all MUCH more likely to have an impact on the Redskins offense this year. If there's improvement, those are the reasons you're likely to see it, NOT because the WR corps was bolstered.

My $0.07

 

[jurb26]

ou make the assumption Jason looked at raw stats and came up with an arguement.

Not an assumtion, btw. That's clearly what he did. Had he watched every skins game last year he wouldn't even have brought this topic up.  As I said before,  coles and gardner dropped many balls and they didn't catch many many more catchable balls. Their mistakes killed many a drive for the skins. Cooley had better hands than those guys. Coles was also injured and he's still got the injury. Another strike against keeping him.  And then there's the fact that he's a cry baby. Didn't get enough catches and cried like a b*tch about it.  Still not sure where you heard that Gardner didn't want to be here.

Skins made that decision. Gardner had little choice in the matter regardless of what his desire might be.

Hey Footballfan,Sounds like you're a diehard Skins fan. In any event, I've watched plenty of Skins games, and took two in last year in person (PHI and D.C.). As someone else pointed out, my stats merely back up my contention that Moss + Patten is a downgrade from Gardner + Coles; it's a shame you can't see that. But it also seems to me that if you watched every Skins game, you couldn't have seen Patten or Moss play too often, so how can you tell WITH YOUR EYES that they're upgrades?

I would also suggest that if you're going to be taken seriously around here, I wouldn't suggest Patrick Ramsey could be the best QB in the NFC East.

Could the Skins offense improve in 2005? OF COURSE! They could finish the year 28th in the league and it would be an improvement. But that was not the point of this discussion.

Putting aside stats, as I've already asked once, explain how Moss + Patten are better receivers...

Are they better blockers?

Better hands?

Faster?

Stronger?

Run better routes?

Score more touchdowns?

Better locker room guys?

More durable?

Better pedigrees?

Something? Anything?

I have no problem with someone taking the opposite side in a debate, and while you can discount stats all you want, I beg of you to explain how statements like:

"Neither Coles or Gardner are much of a scoring threat"

Coles and Gardner have scored more touchdowns (42) in less games (141) than Moss and Patten...that's not using stats to skew an argument, that's proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that what YOU spoke as truth was in fact an outright falsehood.Oh, and Patten is faster (4.37) than Gardner (4.43) by a whopping 0.06 of a second...and Patten's 40-time was taken 10 years ago.

All due respect to some nice posts, but it seems to me that all you have really doen is show Coles and Gardner have had better careers thus far. That in no way though means that they were or are better fits for Wash at this pont in time. I think anyone who watched Wash last year could clearly see that the WR position was one of sever need for them to address. What I'd like to know most is how you can be sure that Coles and Gardner are so much better for Wash heading forward? I mean they had their chance and were unable to get it done were they not? It was/is time for some new faces to try and spark the O regardless of who wanted out and who wanted who to leave. Are Moss and Patten the answer, I don't know. This team however was PATHETIC at passing the ball last year, on top of that they had putrid WR play. I fail to see how Moss and Patten could realistically do worse but am open to suggestions.

Hey jurb,I agree with this100%. Given where the Skins finished last year offensively, and the issues with Coles' desire to leave and Gibbs' desire to see Gardner leave, I concur that SOMETHING, ANYTHING was worth attempting. Ultimately we won't know how this all works out until everyone suits up, that's the great thing about football.

But this conversation started essentially because I called into question why some folks were assuming that these moves were upgrades. If these players all perform to their careers thus far, it's at best a lateral move...but certainly, if you get career bests out of Moss and Patten, it's not hard to project improvement. But improvement is a relative term. My point is, based on their careers, swapping these 4 WRs isn't enough to vault the Skins back into offensive mediocrity, much less the elite.

1) Returning Jansen, 2) signing Rabach, and 3) everyone another year wiser and comfortable in Gibbs system are all MUCH more likely to have an impact on the Redskins offense this year. If there's improvement, those are the reasons you're likely to see it, NOT because the WR corps was bolstered.

My $0.07

I think we have come to an agreement.

 

[Footballfan7]

A couple of more things. I'm not "excited" about any of the wr's the skins had last year OR the ones they have this year so far. I'm only saying that I'm not seeing much difference and that there's nobody on last years offense(skill players) who is a "must have" player. Portis is the closest thing to it. he's an elite back.When you're talking about the wr's, none of the guys involved in this discussion and none of the wr's currently on the skins roster is an elite wr.

Also, my point about reading too much into the stats (or not reading them with an eye on what actally happened on the field) is best illustrated by Hall of Famer John riggins.

If you didn't see him play for the skins and you only look at the stats, you MIGHT wonder how he got into the hall. His position on the all time rushing leaderboard is dropping. His career average is 3.9. His best seasons were 83 and 84. A ton of carries but the average isn't there(3.7 for the two years). Those who saw him play remember how he was used, especially in the 4th quarter. They ran him right up the gut, over and over again. They would have the lead and it was time for the "Riggo drill". Great for ball control. Great for winning the game. Not so great for Riggos stats.

Once again, as a ff player I love the stat game. Always have. When it comes time to draft, I give them the proper weight(they still aren't the end all to be all in ff. Still other factors but they are certainly the top priority) but when judging a team's play in the NFL or and individual's play, I've gotta look at much more than that. We tend to forget that when talking about FF 24/7/365. GM's aren't playing Fantasy ball. They can't afford to go by stats alone. For them it's a job. The REAL difference between Patton/Moss and Coles/Gardner on the field on game day when all things are considered is too insignificant to even talk about. And when you consider that the skins aren't planning on having Moss and Patten as their 1 and 2, it becomes even less of an issue.  Coles and Gardner WERE the one and two. Making the comparison now is pointless until you know who will be the 1 and 2 for the skins. We still have the draft and another round of fee agency. Lots can happen.

You keep saying that ON THE FIELD Moss and Patten are better players...how so?Are they better blockers?

Have more size?

Have more speed?

Better red zone threats?

Better downfield threats?

Run crisper routes?

Have better hands?

Score more touchdowns?

Been more productive?

Made more Pro Bowls?

I point out that the Skins were one of the three worst offenses a year ago, also show you in every imagineable way that tandem you're getting haven't done as much as the tandem you're losing...and you're saying I don't get it?

You're entitled to your opinion, but you should recognize that you need to bring more than "because I say so" to this forum. Maybe at other message boards that kind of schtick worked, but around here it won't be received well.

No, what I keep saying is that at best it's a wash except for the fact that, overall, they have more speed at the position. I'm also saying that the they haven't gotten a tandem yet. Patten is not a number one or two. Moss is not a number 1. To date, they don't have a "tandem". Maybe they'll not have a true number one. They certainly didn't last year. Maybe they draft a guy to fill the role. As it stands, they are about even (except that at least moss can be productive on special teams. Coles couldnt manage to produce at one job. The one he was being way overpaid to perform. I'll bring whatever I choose to the disucssion. IN this case, it's the knowledge of having watched all the games that the skins played (most of them twice) . And I have access to the same stats you do. So, in the end, I'm much more qualified to offer an opinion on this topic than one who only goes by the numbers.Coles caught 93 balls last year. If that's not clear evidence that the stats don't come close to tellign the story, don't know what is. How anybody can argue that two average wrs(at best they are average) on one of the worst offenses in the league (and one of the worst passing o's I've ever seen) are invaluable is beyond me. Jacobs and Mccants could have started and the team couldn't have possibly be much worse(in fact, they might have even been better).

 

[fatness]

1) Returning Jansen, 2) signing Rabach, and 3) everyone another year wiser and comfortable in Gibbs system are all MUCH more likely to have an impact on the Redskins offense this year. If there's improvement, those are the reasons you're likely to see it, NOT because the WR corps was bolstered.

My $0.07

Quite likely you're right, especially about reasons 1 and 2. The WR corps is impossible to guess at this time. Given the improved line and a second year in the same system, would Coles and Gardner do better this year? Both of those are uncertain. Gardner, for whatever reason, just did not show up all the time for the Redskins. I don't know if another year there would or will change that. As for Coles, how is his toe? That pretty much defines what kind of receiver he is. It sevrley limited him last year, and he declined to have surgery on it. Did the Jets get a #1 WR for years to come, or a guy declining due to injury? That can't be guessed at this time. As for S. Moss and Patten, this will be their first year with the team. It's impossible to tell how they will plug in. On the surface at this time, Coles + Gardner is better than S. Moss + Patten. I'm not certain it will play out that way, though.

 

[Family Matters]

A couple of more things. I'm not "excited" about any of the wr's the skins had last year OR the ones they have this year so far. I'm only saying that I'm not seeing much difference and that there's nobody on last years offense(skill players) who is a "must have" player. Portis is the closest thing to it. he's an elite back.When you're talking about the wr's, none of the guys involved in this discussion and none of the wr's currently on the skins roster is an elite wr.

Also, my point about reading too much into the stats (or not reading them with an eye on what actally happened on the field) is best illustrated by Hall of Famer John riggins.

If you didn't see him play for the skins and you only look at the stats, you MIGHT wonder how he got into the hall. His position on the all time rushing leaderboard is dropping. His career average is 3.9. His best seasons were 83 and 84. A ton of carries but the average isn't there(3.7 for the two years). Those who saw him play remember how he was used, especially in the 4th quarter. They ran him right up the gut, over and over again. They would have the lead and it was time for the "Riggo drill". Great for ball control. Great for winning the game. Not so great for Riggos stats.

Once again, as a ff player I love the stat game. Always have. When it comes time to draft, I give them the proper weight(they still aren't the end all to be all in ff. Still other factors but they are certainly the top priority) but when judging a team's play in the NFL or and individual's play, I've gotta look at much more than that. We tend to forget that when talking about FF 24/7/365. GM's aren't playing Fantasy ball. They can't afford to go by stats alone. For them it's a job. The REAL difference between Patton/Moss and Coles/Gardner on the field on game day when all things are considered is too insignificant to even talk about. And when you consider that the skins aren't planning on having Moss and Patten as their 1 and 2, it becomes even less of an issue.  Coles and Gardner WERE the one and two. Making the comparison now is pointless until you know who will be the 1 and 2 for the skins. We still have the draft and another round of fee agency. Lots can happen.

You keep saying that ON THE FIELD Moss and Patten are better players...how so?Are they better blockers?

Have more size?

Have more speed?

Better red zone threats?

Better downfield threats?

Run crisper routes?

Have better hands?

Score more touchdowns?

Been more productive?

Made more Pro Bowls?

I point out that the Skins were one of the three worst offenses a year ago, also show you in every imagineable way that tandem you're getting haven't done as much as the tandem you're losing...and you're saying I don't get it?

You're entitled to your opinion, but you should recognize that you need to bring more than "because I say so" to this forum. Maybe at other message boards that kind of schtick worked, but around here it won't be received well.

No, what I keep saying is that at best it's a wash except for the fact that, overall, they have more speed at the position. I'm also saying that the they haven't gotten a tandem yet. Patten is not a number one or two. Moss is not a number 1. To date, they don't have a "tandem". Maybe they'll not have a true number one. They certainly didn't last year. Maybe they draft a guy to fill the role. As it stands, they are about even (except that at least moss can be productive on special teams. Coles couldnt manage to produce at one job. The one he was being way overpaid to perform. I'll bring whatever I choose to the disucssion. IN this case, it's the knowledge of having watched all the games that the skins played (most of them twice) . And I have access to the same stats you do. So, in the end, I'm much more qualified to offer an opinion on this topic than one who only goes by the numbers.Coles caught 93 balls last year. If that's not clear evidence that the stats don't come close to tellign the story, don't know what is. How anybody can argue that two average wrs(at best they are average) on one of the worst offenses in the league (and one of the worst passing o's I've ever seen) are invaluable is beyond me. Jacobs and Mccants could have started and the team couldn't have possibly be much worse(in fact, they might have even been better).

Not responding to the deabte as it's clear what your position is. But, what is your hang up with the stats? Every post you've made since last night you keep telling us that "the stats don't tell the story". Why do you keep doing this? Let it go man.For the record, the stats are very meaningful as they tell us what did happen. That's why there's a score board. In fantasy football, everything is about stats. That's how we keep score. You make an excellent point about watching the game.

Further the stats help us evaluate how players are doing. We can then compare as part of the evaluation process. And OBTW-we also watch games.

So to tell us we shouldn't use stats is not only sac-religous but you'll lose credibility around here pretty quick.

Not trying to bust your chops but you seem to be busting ours over this. Thought it was time to provide you some insight as to what we do around here.

 

[valhallan]

As for Coles, how is his toe? That pretty much defines what kind of receiver he is. It sevrley limited him last year, and he declined to have surgery on it. Did the Jets get a #1 WR for years to come, or a guy declining due to injury?

I think history will show the Redskins made the right move by getting value for a receiver with a bum toe. Wish I could find some numbers, but it seems like hardly anyone ever fully recovers from that kind of injury.

 

[Footballfan7]

A couple of more things. I'm not "excited" about any of the wr's the skins had last year OR the ones they have this year so far. I'm only saying that I'm not seeing much difference and that there's nobody on last years offense(skill players) who is a "must have" player. Portis is the closest thing to it. he's an elite back.When you're talking about the wr's, none of the guys involved in this discussion and none of the wr's currently on the skins roster is an elite wr.

Also, my point about reading too much into the stats (or not reading them with an eye on what actally happened on the field) is best illustrated by Hall of Famer John riggins.

If you didn't see him play for the skins and you only look at the stats, you MIGHT wonder how he got into the hall. His position on the all time rushing leaderboard is dropping. His career average is 3.9. His best seasons were 83 and 84. A ton of carries but the average isn't there(3.7 for the two years). Those who saw him play remember how he was used, especially in the 4th quarter. They ran him right up the gut, over and over again. They would have the lead and it was time for the "Riggo drill". Great for ball control. Great for winning the game. Not so great for Riggos stats.

Once again, as a ff player I love the stat game. Always have. When it comes time to draft, I give them the proper weight(they still aren't the end all to be all in ff. Still other factors but they are certainly the top priority) but when judging a team's play in the NFL or and individual's play, I've gotta look at much more than that. We tend to forget that when talking about FF 24/7/365. GM's aren't playing Fantasy ball. They can't afford to go by stats alone. For them it's a job. The REAL difference between Patton/Moss and Coles/Gardner on the field on game day when all things are considered is too insignificant to even talk about. And when you consider that the skins aren't planning on having Moss and Patten as their 1 and 2, it becomes even less of an issue.  Coles and Gardner WERE the one and two. Making the comparison now is pointless until you know who will be the 1 and 2 for the skins. We still have the draft and another round of fee agency. Lots can happen.

You keep saying that ON THE FIELD Moss and Patten are better players...how so?Are they better blockers?

Have more size?

Have more speed?

Better red zone threats?

Better downfield threats?

Run crisper routes?

Have better hands?

Score more touchdowns?

Been more productive?

Made more Pro Bowls?

I point out that the Skins were one of the three worst offenses a year ago, also show you in every imagineable way that tandem you're getting haven't done as much as the tandem you're losing...and you're saying I don't get it?

You're entitled to your opinion, but you should recognize that you need to bring more than "because I say so" to this forum. Maybe at other message boards that kind of schtick worked, but around here it won't be received well.

No, what I keep saying is that at best it's a wash except for the fact that, overall, they have more speed at the position. I'm also saying that the they haven't gotten a tandem yet. Patten is not a number one or two. Moss is not a number 1. To date, they don't have a "tandem". Maybe they'll not have a true number one. They certainly didn't last year. Maybe they draft a guy to fill the role. As it stands, they are about even (except that at least moss can be productive on special teams. Coles couldnt manage to produce at one job. The one he was being way overpaid to perform. I'll bring whatever I choose to the disucssion. IN this case, it's the knowledge of having watched all the games that the skins played (most of them twice) . And I have access to the same stats you do. So, in the end, I'm much more qualified to offer an opinion on this topic than one who only goes by the numbers.Coles caught 93 balls last year. If that's not clear evidence that the stats don't come close to tellign the story, don't know what is. How anybody can argue that two average wrs(at best they are average) on one of the worst offenses in the league (and one of the worst passing o's I've ever seen) are invaluable is beyond me. Jacobs and Mccants could have started and the team couldn't have possibly be much worse(in fact, they might have even been better).

Not responding to the deabte as it's clear what your position is. But, what is your hang up with the stats? Every post you've made since last night you keep telling us that "the stats don't tell the story". Why do you keep doing this? Let it go man.For the record, the stats are very meaningful as they tell us what did happen. That's why there's a score board. In fantasy football, everything is about stats. That's how we keep score. You make an excellent point about watching the game.

Further the stats help us evaluate how players are doing. We can then compare as part of the evaluation process. And OBTW-we also watch games.

So to tell us we shouldn't use stats is not only sac-religous but you'll lose credibility around here pretty quick.

Not trying to bust your chops but you seem to be busting ours over this. Thought it was time to provide you some insight as to what we do around here.

Damn! Why do those gms and coaches and players spend so much time watching film. ALl they really have to do is check the stats. btw-the discussion wasn't about fantasy ball. It was about whether or not the skins upgraded/downgraded or remain the same at the wr position. I dont' see fantasy value in any of those guys.The stats on coles lie about how he really did. He caugh 93 balls and had a terrible season. It was full of drops, missed blocks, poor rout running. Many(if not most) of his receptions were 2 yard sideline passes. He couldnt' even manage to hang onto them all. If you didn't watch the games and looked at the stats you wouldn;t know that. And feel free to bust my chops. I agreed to that when I started posting my opions. and, btw, I'm not new here. Been reading the board for years. Just had to respond to this thread for some reason. Call it boredom.

 

[Prime]

As bad as Wash was last year, wasn't this still a team that was only 2 games out of the playoffs and really just 1 game down the stretch?  The way the NFC is looking, I'm not so sure that a "win now" approach is all that bad of an idea.  I also think it will be a bit surprising to see this team be nearly as bad in Gibb's 2nd year.

It might be win now, but are the Skins really that close to winning, even in a weak NFC?Are they as good as Philly, Minny, Atlanta? No

The teams in their division have improved as well, and Carolina, Tampa, St. Louis and Seattle should all rebound after making good off season moves. Solid drafts by any of these clubs will only help.

The Lions and Bears are also sleeper teams and have terrific young talent.

Imho, Washington still has a serious hole at qb, and their wideouts leave much to be desired. The Skins are lights out defensively, but are a ways from contending.

The Redskins have a top 5 defense and imo the #1 defense when you consider what terrible field position their offense left them in last year.They have a top 5 RB.

They have a top 10 o-line if Jansen is back healthy.

To assume that the can't shore up 2 areas(QB and WR) is very foolish imo. In today's NFL, every team is one or two bounces of the ball away from the playoffs.

If only it were that simple. The Redkins were 31st in points scored and 30th in offensive yards. To put a finer point on it:31st in total points (240)

30th in offensive yards (4,639)
29th in passing yards (2,874)
31st in yards per attempt (5.59)
29th in yards per rush (3.75)
32nd in rushing TDs (6)They weren't bad, they were among the most inept in the league. Yes they return Jansen, but do you honestly think that's the missing link? They also still have either a) Brunell, b) Ramsey or c) a rookie at the helm. They also somehow managed to DOWNGRADE at WR heading into the draft (Moss + Patten < Coles + Gardner). No QB, subpar WRs, no TE and as good as that defense was a year ago, they couldn't afford to lose Pierce and Smoot given their lack of depth. Best of luck, if Gibbs managed 8 wins this year he's going to be in the hunt for Coach of the Year.

There is a lot tht is wrong with this post:For one they don't just add a healthy Jensen, they have also added a serious UPGRADE at C.

They are not going to have: Brunell/Ramsey/Rookie. There QB is going to be Ramsey. Even if they were to draft someone, he is going to be the starter. This guy has yet to play in a system or on a team that has been able to keep his jersey clean for more than 3 plays. Lets at least give the guy a serious shot before we write him off. You know a healthy line and maybe some WRs who can get open and make plays.

"Moss + Patten < Coles + Gardner" and you know this how? From the stats? Coles and Gardner have been liabilities in the Wash passing game, not playmakers. What exactly has given you an otherwise impression. Opposing teams were laghing in the face of these WRs (and the Wash passing game in general) last year. They stacked the line for Portis and dared these guys to get open and make them pay, which never happend with exception to Gardners one huge game. In case you didn't know, The combo of Moss/Patten combined for 1635/12 last year while Coles/Gardner combined for 1600/6. I don't know of any places in the world where the Coles/Gardner numbers can be considered better. I see this as an UPGRADE again for Wash. Coles was never a good fit into this O and has a lingering foot problem. Gardner has had 1 good year out of 4 and has been nothing but inconsistent for Wash. Its not a question of what they have done in their careers, but a question of what they were able to do for Wash IMO. Coles and Garder were simply one of the most INEFFECIVE set of WRs in the league last year. Coles is without a doubt the best WR of this group over all of the guys careers, but that is irrelevant IMO. He was not good in Wash and they were wise to move him. Plus they most likely will add a WR via the draft this Sat.

No TE? Are you kidding me? Have we forgoten Cooley that fast? As a rookie, the guy scored 6 TDs on a team that could only muster a whopping 17 passing scores. Saying they have no TE is boarderline

The loss of Pierce will hurt for sure, he was a great player last year. They do however have their Franchise player coming back in Arrington though. So I fail to see how this is the catistrophic hit. Smoot was a nice player last year, not great, nice. Wasn't I just reading a thread on this board about how he was one of the most "toasted" CBs in the league. He is certainly not the player that everyone around here is trying to make him out to be. I think Wash is more than fine going with Springs (who was their best CB last year) and Harris. Yes they would be smart to add some youth to this position, but for the short term, they seem to be fine IMO.

You're absolutely correct. Coles and Gardner WERE a liability in the passing game. Coles caught 93 balls last year. Looks pretty good on paper but those of us who watched the games(i watched most of them twice) know that they were,for the most part, terrible. I would add that it's debatable whether coles is actually the best of the bunch. If he is, it's not by much. Moss gives them special teams help which allows them to dump another liability the skins picked up from the Jets a couple of years ago. As for Ramsey, I agree. He's not one of my favorite qbs but I'm a patient guy when it comes to qbs. If they keep him upright, he'll be just fine. He's still better right now than 2 of the 3 qbs in the NFC east and he might end up being the best. he'll never run like Mcnabb can(but doesn't for some odd reason) but he could end up the better passer and the better overall qb. COULD. he's got the arm for it. Time will tell. Even if he's not, the skins have had plenty of success without having the best qb in the division. All of Gibb's super bowl wins came with qbs who were not the best in the division.

Patrick Ramsey is not better then Bledsoe or McNabb. MAYBE he is better than Manning at this very moment. At the end of this season, Manning will also top him him. If you have any more of whatever you're smoking, please send me a PM.

 

[jurb26]

Patrick Ramsey is not better then Bledsoe or McNabb. MAYBE he is better than Manning at this very moment. At the end of this season, Manning will also top him him. If you have any more of whatever you're smoking, please send me a PM.

I can't say that Ramsey being better than Bledsoe is an open and shut case by any means, but I think I would rather have Ramsey leading my team at this moment in time. I think Bledsoe is just about done with his NFL career, though I wish him the best of luck in Big D.

 

[cstu]

Patrick Ramsey is not better then Bledsoe or McNabb. MAYBE he is better than Manning at this very moment. At the end of this season, Manning will also top him him. If you have any more of whatever you're smoking, please send me a PM.

I can't say that Ramsey being better than Bledsoe is an open and shut case by any means, but I think I would rather have Ramsey leading my team at this moment in time. I think Bledsoe is just about done with his NFL career, though I wish him the best of luck in Big D.

Let's face it, Ramsey sucks. All I ever hear is how Harrington is the worst QB in history, but they had very similar seasons last year despite the Redskins being a much, much better team than the Lions.

 

[jurb26]

Patrick Ramsey is not better then Bledsoe or McNabb. MAYBE he is better than Manning at this very moment. At the end of this season, Manning will also top him him. If you have any more of whatever you're smoking, please send me a PM.

I can't say that Ramsey being better than Bledsoe is an open and shut case by any means, but I think I would rather have Ramsey leading my team at this moment in time. I think Bledsoe is just about done with his NFL career, though I wish him the best of luck in Big D.

Let's face it, Ramsey sucks. All I ever hear is how Harrington is the worst QB in history, but they had very similar seasons last year despite the Redskins being a much, much better team than the Lions.

You've got to be kidding me.Wash, 6-10

Det, 6-10

What exactly made Wash a much, much better team? yeah they had a great D, but last I checked Ramsey and Harrington were QBs. Harrington had FAR better weapons around him than did Ramsey.

 

[cstu]

Patrick Ramsey is not better then Bledsoe or McNabb. MAYBE he is better than Manning at this very moment. At the end of this season, Manning will also top him him. If you have any more of whatever you're smoking, please send me a PM.

I can't say that Ramsey being better than Bledsoe is an open and shut case by any means, but I think I would rather have Ramsey leading my team at this moment in time. I think Bledsoe is just about done with his NFL career, though I wish him the best of luck in Big D.

Let's face it, Ramsey sucks. All I ever hear is how Harrington is the worst QB in history, but they had very similar seasons last year despite the Redskins being a much, much better team than the Lions.

You've got to be kidding me.Wash, 6-10

Det, 6-10

What exactly made Wash a much, much better team? yeah they had a great D, but last I checked Ramsey and Harrington were QBs. Harrington had FAR better weapons around him than did Ramsey.

Great D, plus Portis, Coles, Gardner, and an OL. The Lions didn't have a running game the first half of the season and Williams wasn't completely healthy most of the season.

 

[jurb26]

Patrick Ramsey is not better then Bledsoe or McNabb. MAYBE he is better than Manning at this very moment. At the end of this season, Manning will also top him him. If you have any more of whatever you're smoking, please send me a PM.

I can't say that Ramsey being better than Bledsoe is an open and shut case by any means, but I think I would rather have Ramsey leading my team at this moment in time. I think Bledsoe is just about done with his NFL career, though I wish him the best of luck in Big D.

Let's face it, Ramsey sucks. All I ever hear is how Harrington is the worst QB in history, but they had very similar seasons last year despite the Redskins being a much, much better team than the Lions.

You've got to be kidding me.Wash, 6-10

Det, 6-10

What exactly made Wash a much, much better team? yeah they had a great D, but last I checked Ramsey and Harrington were QBs. Harrington had FAR better weapons around him than did Ramsey.

Great D, plus Portis, Coles, Gardner, and an OL. The Lions didn't have a running game the first half of the season and Williams wasn't completely healthy most of the season.

The D Portis

Coles :X

Gardner

The Oline in its injured state last year. :X

 

[cstu]

Patrick Ramsey is not better then Bledsoe or McNabb. MAYBE he is better than Manning at this very moment. At the end of this season, Manning will also top him him. If you have any more of whatever you're smoking, please send me a PM.

I can't say that Ramsey being better than Bledsoe is an open and shut case by any means, but I think I would rather have Ramsey leading my team at this moment in time. I think Bledsoe is just about done with his NFL career, though I wish him the best of luck in Big D.

Let's face it, Ramsey sucks. All I ever hear is how Harrington is the worst QB in history, but they had very similar seasons last year despite the Redskins being a much, much better team than the Lions.

You've got to be kidding me.Wash, 6-10

Det, 6-10

What exactly made Wash a much, much better team? yeah they had a great D, but last I checked Ramsey and Harrington were QBs. Harrington had FAR better weapons around him than did Ramsey.

Great D, plus Portis, Coles, Gardner, and an OL. The Lions didn't have a running game the first half of the season and Williams wasn't completely healthy most of the season.

The D Portis

Coles :X

Gardner

The Oline in its injured state last year. :X

I'm just saying that Ramsey should have been able to put up better numbers with what he had. Then again, I'm giving Harrington the benefit of the doubt so Ramsey could get it together this year as well.

 

[LHUCKS]

Ramsey is not a playoff caliber QB.The Redskins will not be a contender until he is replaced.

 

[Family Matters]

A couple of more things. I'm not "excited" about any of the wr's the skins had last year OR the ones they have this year so far. I'm only saying that I'm not seeing much difference and that there's nobody on last years offense(skill players) who is a "must have" player. Portis is the closest thing to it. he's an elite back.When you're talking about the wr's, none of the guys involved in this discussion and none of the wr's currently on the skins roster is an elite wr.

Also, my point about reading too much into the stats (or not reading them with an eye on what actally happened on the field) is best illustrated by Hall of Famer John riggins.

If you didn't see him play for the skins and you only look at the stats, you MIGHT wonder how he got into the hall. His position on the all time rushing leaderboard is dropping. His career average is 3.9. His best seasons were 83 and 84. A ton of carries but the average isn't there(3.7 for the two years). Those who saw him play remember how he was used, especially in the 4th quarter. They ran him right up the gut, over and over again. They would have the lead and it was time for the "Riggo drill". Great for ball control. Great for winning the game. Not so great for Riggos stats.

Once again, as a ff player I love the stat game. Always have. When it comes time to draft, I give them the proper weight(they still aren't the end all to be all in ff. Still other factors but they are certainly the top priority) but when judging a team's play in the NFL or and individual's play, I've gotta look at much more than that. We tend to forget that when talking about FF 24/7/365. GM's aren't playing Fantasy ball. They can't afford to go by stats alone. For them it's a job. The REAL difference between Patton/Moss and Coles/Gardner on the field on game day when all things are considered is too insignificant to even talk about. And when you consider that the skins aren't planning on having Moss and Patten as their 1 and 2, it becomes even less of an issue.  Coles and Gardner WERE the one and two. Making the comparison now is pointless until you know who will be the 1 and 2 for the skins. We still have the draft and another round of fee agency. Lots can happen.

You keep saying that ON THE FIELD Moss and Patten are better players...how so?Are they better blockers?

Have more size?

Have more speed?

Better red zone threats?

Better downfield threats?

Run crisper routes?

Have better hands?

Score more touchdowns?

Been more productive?

Made more Pro Bowls?

I point out that the Skins were one of the three worst offenses a year ago, also show you in every imagineable way that tandem you're getting haven't done as much as the tandem you're losing...and you're saying I don't get it?

You're entitled to your opinion, but you should recognize that you need to bring more than "because I say so" to this forum. Maybe at other message boards that kind of schtick worked, but around here it won't be received well.

No, what I keep saying is that at best it's a wash except for the fact that, overall, they have more speed at the position. I'm also saying that the they haven't gotten a tandem yet. Patten is not a number one or two. Moss is not a number 1. To date, they don't have a "tandem". Maybe they'll not have a true number one. They certainly didn't last year. Maybe they draft a guy to fill the role. As it stands, they are about even (except that at least moss can be productive on special teams. Coles couldnt manage to produce at one job. The one he was being way overpaid to perform. I'll bring whatever I choose to the disucssion. IN this case, it's the knowledge of having watched all the games that the skins played (most of them twice) . And I have access to the same stats you do. So, in the end, I'm much more qualified to offer an opinion on this topic than one who only goes by the numbers.Coles caught 93 balls last year. If that's not clear evidence that the stats don't come close to tellign the story, don't know what is. How anybody can argue that two average wrs(at best they are average) on one of the worst offenses in the league (and one of the worst passing o's I've ever seen) are invaluable is beyond me. Jacobs and Mccants could have started and the team couldn't have possibly be much worse(in fact, they might have even been better).

Not responding to the deabte as it's clear what your position is. But, what is your hang up with the stats? Every post you've made since last night you keep telling us that "the stats don't tell the story". Why do you keep doing this? Let it go man.For the record, the stats are very meaningful as they tell us what did happen. That's why there's a score board. In fantasy football, everything is about stats. That's how we keep score. You make an excellent point about watching the game.

Further the stats help us evaluate how players are doing. We can then compare as part of the evaluation process. And OBTW-we also watch games.

So to tell us we shouldn't use stats is not only sac-religous but you'll lose credibility around here pretty quick.

Not trying to bust your chops but you seem to be busting ours over this. Thought it was time to provide you some insight as to what we do around here.

Damn! Why do those gms and coaches and players spend so much time watching film. ALl they really have to do is check the stats. btw-the discussion wasn't about fantasy ball. It was about whether or not the skins upgraded/downgraded or remain the same at the wr position. I dont' see fantasy value in any of those guys.The stats on coles lie about how he really did. He caugh 93 balls and had a terrible season. It was full of drops, missed blocks, poor rout running. Many(if not most) of his receptions were 2 yard sideline passes. He couldnt' even manage to hang onto them all. If you didn't watch the games and looked at the stats you wouldn;t know that. And feel free to bust my chops. I agreed to that when I started posting my opions. and, btw, I'm not new here. Been reading the board for years. Just had to respond to this thread for some reason. Call it boredom.

Well actually, we are talking fantasy. We've explained that to you but I guess you're just going to ignore us. Even though it was explained that stats are a part of the analyzing I guess you're going to ignore that too.

Now I know better than to discuss any fantasy with you. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[jurb26]

Ramsey is not a playoff caliber QB.

The Redskins will not be a contender until he is replaced.

And you know this how after only 3 incomplete seasons?

 

[Footballfan7]

A couple of more things. I'm not "excited" about any of the wr's the skins had last year OR the ones they have this year so far. I'm only saying that I'm not seeing much difference and that there's nobody on last years offense(skill players) who is a "must have" player. Portis is the closest thing to it. he's an elite back.When you're talking about the wr's, none of the guys involved in this discussion and none of the wr's currently on the skins roster is an elite wr.

Also, my point about reading too much into the stats (or not reading them with an eye on what actally happened on the field) is best illustrated by Hall of Famer John riggins.

If you didn't see him play for the skins and you only look at the stats, you MIGHT wonder how he got into the hall. His position on the all time rushing leaderboard is dropping. His career average is 3.9. His best seasons were 83 and 84. A ton of carries but the average isn't there(3.7 for the two years). Those who saw him play remember how he was used, especially in the 4th quarter. They ran him right up the gut, over and over again. They would have the lead and it was time for the "Riggo drill". Great for ball control. Great for winning the game. Not so great for Riggos stats.

Once again, as a ff player I love the stat game. Always have. When it comes time to draft, I give them the proper weight(they still aren't the end all to be all in ff. Still other factors but they are certainly the top priority) but when judging a team's play in the NFL or and individual's play, I've gotta look at much more than that. We tend to forget that when talking about FF 24/7/365. GM's aren't playing Fantasy ball. They can't afford to go by stats alone. For them it's a job. The REAL difference between Patton/Moss and Coles/Gardner on the field on game day when all things are considered is too insignificant to even talk about. And when you consider that the skins aren't planning on having Moss and Patten as their 1 and 2, it becomes even less of an issue.  Coles and Gardner WERE the one and two. Making the comparison now is pointless until you know who will be the 1 and 2 for the skins. We still have the draft and another round of fee agency. Lots can happen.

You keep saying that ON THE FIELD Moss and Patten are better players...how so?Are they better blockers?

Have more size?

Have more speed?

Better red zone threats?

Better downfield threats?

Run crisper routes?

Have better hands?

Score more touchdowns?

Been more productive?

Made more Pro Bowls?

I point out that the Skins were one of the three worst offenses a year ago, also show you in every imagineable way that tandem you're getting haven't done as much as the tandem you're losing...and you're saying I don't get it?

You're entitled to your opinion, but you should recognize that you need to bring more than "because I say so" to this forum. Maybe at other message boards that kind of schtick worked, but around here it won't be received well.

No, what I keep saying is that at best it's a wash except for the fact that, overall, they have more speed at the position. I'm also saying that the they haven't gotten a tandem yet. Patten is not a number one or two. Moss is not a number 1. To date, they don't have a "tandem". Maybe they'll not have a true number one. They certainly didn't last year. Maybe they draft a guy to fill the role. As it stands, they are about even (except that at least moss can be productive on special teams. Coles couldnt manage to produce at one job. The one he was being way overpaid to perform. I'll bring whatever I choose to the disucssion. IN this case, it's the knowledge of having watched all the games that the skins played (most of them twice) . And I have access to the same stats you do. So, in the end, I'm much more qualified to offer an opinion on this topic than one who only goes by the numbers.Coles caught 93 balls last year. If that's not clear evidence that the stats don't come close to tellign the story, don't know what is. How anybody can argue that two average wrs(at best they are average) on one of the worst offenses in the league (and one of the worst passing o's I've ever seen) are invaluable is beyond me. Jacobs and Mccants could have started and the team couldn't have possibly be much worse(in fact, they might have even been better).

Not responding to the deabte as it's clear what your position is. But, what is your hang up with the stats? Every post you've made since last night you keep telling us that "the stats don't tell the story". Why do you keep doing this? Let it go man.For the record, the stats are very meaningful as they tell us what did happen. That's why there's a score board. In fantasy football, everything is about stats. That's how we keep score. You make an excellent point about watching the game.

Further the stats help us evaluate how players are doing. We can then compare as part of the evaluation process. And OBTW-we also watch games.

So to tell us we shouldn't use stats is not only sac-religous but you'll lose credibility around here pretty quick.

Not trying to bust your chops but you seem to be busting ours over this. Thought it was time to provide you some insight as to what we do around here.

Damn! Why do those gms and coaches and players spend so much time watching film. ALl they really have to do is check the stats. btw-the discussion wasn't about fantasy ball. It was about whether or not the skins upgraded/downgraded or remain the same at the wr position. I dont' see fantasy value in any of those guys.The stats on coles lie about how he really did. He caugh 93 balls and had a terrible season. It was full of drops, missed blocks, poor rout running. Many(if not most) of his receptions were 2 yard sideline passes. He couldnt' even manage to hang onto them all. If you didn't watch the games and looked at the stats you wouldn;t know that. And feel free to bust my chops. I agreed to that when I started posting my opions. and, btw, I'm not new here. Been reading the board for years. Just had to respond to this thread for some reason. Call it boredom.

Well actually, we are talking fantasy. We've explained that to you but I guess you're just going to ignore us. Even though it was explained that stats are a part of the analyzing I guess you're going to ignore that too.

Now I know better than to discuss any fantasy with you. Thanks for clarifying.

False, the guy who made the original post that I responded to was NOT talking fantasy. He's claiming that the REDSKINS downgraded at WR and he posted stats that don't even reallytback up his claim to prove it(the stats about drops is funny but doesnt' tell the story). Not sure who the "We" is in your post but if you can't follow a discussion, best that you don't enter into it. Friendly advice. I read the posts. The guy with the meaningless stats didnt' watch the games and thinks he knows what he's talking about. Got it. I'll post examples that show that the stats don't show the half of it. I'll even give you some scenarios that further bolster this point if you like. A qb's stats are 20-50-100 yards and 5 picks. Whose fault was it? Do the stats tell you that? What if all of the passes were perfect and they wr's dropped them. What if the guy who saw the game told you that EVERY pick was a result of having perfect passes taken right from the arms of the wr? You'll only know this if you saw the game or read about it. If you took that information by itself without this knowledge and then made a fantasy decision based on it, you'd be a fool(and I'd really want you and your pals in my league).

 

[Prime]

Patrick Ramsey is not better then Bledsoe or McNabb. MAYBE he is better than Manning at this very moment. At the end of this season, Manning will also top him him. If you have any more of whatever you're smoking, please send me a PM.

I can't say that Ramsey being better than Bledsoe is an open and shut case by any means, but I think I would rather have Ramsey leading my team at this moment in time. I think Bledsoe is just about done with his NFL career, though I wish him the best of luck in Big D.

Please tell my you slipped and bumped your head. I know it's the popular thing to do right now in bashing Bledsoe for playing on a bad team the last two years with no legitimate number 2 rec., no O-line, or a solid TE, but saying you would rather have Ramsey over Bledsoe is borderline lunacy.Seriously.

We can debate if you like, please tell my how or why you would choose Ramsey over Bledsoe.

 

[LHUCKS]

Ramsey is not a playoff caliber QB.

The Redskins will not be a contender until he is replaced.

And you know this how after only 3 incomplete seasons?

Key Word = IncompleteHow much of this guy sucking do you need to see?

 

[jurb26]

Patrick Ramsey is not better then Bledsoe or McNabb. MAYBE he is better than Manning at this very moment. At the end of this season, Manning will also top him him. If you have any more of whatever you're smoking, please send me a PM.

I can't say that Ramsey being better than Bledsoe is an open and shut case by any means, but I think I would rather have Ramsey leading my team at this moment in time. I think Bledsoe is just about done with his NFL career, though I wish him the best of luck in Big D.

Please tell my you slipped and bumped your head. I know it's the popular thing to do right now in bashing Bledsoe for playing on a bad team the last two years with no legitimate number 2 rec., no O-line, or a solid TE, but saying you would rather have Ramsey over Bledsoe is borderline lunacy.Seriously.

We can debate if you like, please tell my how or why you would choose Ramsey over Bledsoe.

At least he has had a #1 (Moulds) the past 3 years. Last year I would certianly say he had a legit #2 in Evans as well. That alone is more than Ramsey can ever say he has had. Ramsey also outplayed Bledsoe last year:

Ramsey, 9 games, 62.1%, 1665 yds, 6.1 ypa, 10 tds, 11 ints

Bledsoe, 16 games, 58.2%, 2860 yds, 6.1 ypa, 11 tds, 12 ints

Ramsey should still be at a point in his career where he is improving while Bledsoe seems to be in the regression stage. This along with Ramsey doing more with less last year makes me value Ramsey more as a QB.

 

[jurb26]

Ramsey is not a playoff caliber QB.

The Redskins will not be a contender until he is replaced.

And you know this how after only 3 incomplete seasons?

Key Word = IncompleteHow much of this guy sucking do you need to see?

I'm not sure that I have really seen any of him "sucking" yet. I think what I have seen is him struggling on terrble offensive teams. But what young QBs wouldn't?

 

[Footballfan7]

Ramsey is not a playoff caliber QB.

The Redskins will not be a contender until he is replaced.

And you know this how after only 3 incomplete seasons?

Key Word = IncompleteHow much of this guy sucking do you need to see?

I'm not sure that I have really seen any of him "sucking" yet. I think what I have seen is him struggling on terrble offensive teams. But what young QBs wouldn't?

He's got as much, if not more, going for him than serval qb's who have led teams to the super bowl in years past. We can start with Dilfer. Then there's Jeff Hostetler(came in week 10 that year and led G-man to the title). Rypien. Doug Williams. I'm not a big fan of his but I wouldn't go so far as to say that he sucks. At this point I don't really know what to make of the guy. I know he's got a good arm and that he has looked good at time. I also know he's not all that mobile(not a Bledsoe, just not all that smoothe) and doesn't move particularly well in the pocket. Can't do much about mobility but coaching could take care of his pocket movement. He's got guts and he's tough. Jury is out. Not sure that Gibbs is all that crazy about him though. Not sure if it's that he thinks the kid can't play or that he just doesn't like him. Even so, they need to suck it up and stick with him for at least a season. If they bring in some rookie 1st rounder it's going to be a long season for the SKins fans(then again, we're used to them).

 

[Prime]

Patrick Ramsey is not better then Bledsoe or McNabb. MAYBE he is better than Manning at this very moment. At the end of this season, Manning will also top him him. If you have any more of whatever you're smoking, please send me a PM.

I can't say that Ramsey being better than Bledsoe is an open and shut case by any means, but I think I would rather have Ramsey leading my team at this moment in time. I think Bledsoe is just about done with his NFL career, though I wish him the best of luck in Big D.

Please tell my you slipped and bumped your head. I know it's the popular thing to do right now in bashing Bledsoe for playing on a bad team the last two years with no legitimate number 2 rec., no O-line, or a solid TE, but saying you would rather have Ramsey over Bledsoe is borderline lunacy.Seriously.

We can debate if you like, please tell my how or why you would choose Ramsey over Bledsoe.

At least he has had a #1 (Moulds) the past 3 years. Last year I would certianly say he had a legit #2 in Evans as well. That alone is more than Ramsey can ever say he has had. Ramsey also outplayed Bledsoe last year:

Ramsey, 9 games, 62.1%, 1665 yds, 6.1 ypa, 10 tds, 11 ints

Bledsoe, 16 games, 58.2%, 2860 yds, 6.1 ypa, 11 tds, 12 ints

Ramsey should still be at a point in his career where he is improving while Bledsoe seems to be in the regression stage. This along with Ramsey doing more with less last year makes me value Ramsey more as a QB.

I would also agree that Evans is a legit #2 now, but wasn't untill the middle part of the season last year. As far as Ramsey doing more with less. Bledsoe won more games and plays in a much, much harder division.

 

[jurb26]

Patrick Ramsey is not better then Bledsoe or McNabb. MAYBE he is better than Manning at this very moment. At the end of this season, Manning will also top him him. If you have any more of whatever you're smoking, please send me a PM.

I can't say that Ramsey being better than Bledsoe is an open and shut case by any means, but I think I would rather have Ramsey leading my team at this moment in time. I think Bledsoe is just about done with his NFL career, though I wish him the best of luck in Big D.

Please tell my you slipped and bumped your head. I know it's the popular thing to do right now in bashing Bledsoe for playing on a bad team the last two years with no legitimate number 2 rec., no O-line, or a solid TE, but saying you would rather have Ramsey over Bledsoe is borderline lunacy.Seriously.

We can debate if you like, please tell my how or why you would choose Ramsey over Bledsoe.

At least he has had a #1 (Moulds) the past 3 years. Last year I would certianly say he had a legit #2 in Evans as well. That alone is more than Ramsey can ever say he has had. Ramsey also outplayed Bledsoe last year:

Ramsey, 9 games, 62.1%, 1665 yds, 6.1 ypa, 10 tds, 11 ints

Bledsoe, 16 games, 58.2%, 2860 yds, 6.1 ypa, 11 tds, 12 ints

Ramsey should still be at a point in his career where he is improving while Bledsoe seems to be in the regression stage. This along with Ramsey doing more with less last year makes me value Ramsey more as a QB.

I would also agree that Evans is a legit #2 now, but wasn't untill the middle part of the season last year. As far as Ramsey doing more with less. Bledsoe won more games and plays in a much, much harder division.

I supose your right about that. I guess I just don't like Bledsoes age more than anything. It seems as though his play is on the downward swing where as Ramsey should be able to improve still.Def a nice signing for Dal in the short term. By shrot term I mean 1 year as he will not be the answer for any longer than that IMO.

 

[Footballfan7]

Patrick Ramsey is not better then Bledsoe or McNabb. MAYBE he is better than Manning at this very moment. At the end of this season, Manning will also top him him. If you have any more of whatever you're smoking, please send me a PM.

I can't say that Ramsey being better than Bledsoe is an open and shut case by any means, but I think I would rather have Ramsey leading my team at this moment in time. I think Bledsoe is just about done with his NFL career, though I wish him the best of luck in Big D.

Please tell my you slipped and bumped your head. I know it's the popular thing to do right now in bashing Bledsoe for playing on a bad team the last two years with no legitimate number 2 rec., no O-line, or a solid TE, but saying you would rather have Ramsey over Bledsoe is borderline lunacy.Seriously.

We can debate if you like, please tell my how or why you would choose Ramsey over Bledsoe.

At least he has had a #1 (Moulds) the past 3 years. Last year I would certianly say he had a legit #2 in Evans as well. That alone is more than Ramsey can ever say he has had. Ramsey also outplayed Bledsoe last year:

Ramsey, 9 games, 62.1%, 1665 yds, 6.1 ypa, 10 tds, 11 ints

Bledsoe, 16 games, 58.2%, 2860 yds, 6.1 ypa, 11 tds, 12 ints

Ramsey should still be at a point in his career where he is improving while Bledsoe seems to be in the regression stage. This along with Ramsey doing more with less last year makes me value Ramsey more as a QB.

I would also agree that Evans is a legit #2 now, but wasn't untill the middle part of the season last year. As far as Ramsey doing more with less. Bledsoe won more games and plays in a much, much harder division.

Ramsey isn't close to being the qb that bledsoe is (or the qb he once was). I know that Bledsoe is capable of winning games if he has protection. Ramsey may or may not be able to do so. He's a question mark. And I wouldn't say he did more with less either. His performance was mediocre and the talent around him was comparable. note to the guy with the stats that SUPPOSEDLY show the Ramsey outplayed Bledsoe-the stats show that they were about the same. The main difference seems to be that Bledsoe actually played all 16 games and thus the percentages were down a little for him. Nothing about the Skins Offense last years suggests that Ramsey's completion percentage would have been anything but lower than it ended up being had he played all 16 games. Again, we have a wash. EXCEPT-bledsoe has been successful in the NFL. He's had a career. Ramsey has had no career to speak of.

 

[Jason Wood]

A couple of more things. I'm not "excited" about any of the wr's the skins had last year OR the ones they have this year so far. I'm only saying that I'm not seeing much difference and that there's nobody on last years offense(skill players) who is a "must have" player. Portis is the closest thing to it. he's an elite back.When you're talking about the wr's, none of the guys involved in this discussion and none of the wr's currently on the skins roster is an elite wr.

Also, my point about reading too much into the stats (or not reading them with an eye on what actally happened on the field) is best illustrated by Hall of Famer John riggins.

If you didn't see him play for the skins and you only look at the stats, you MIGHT wonder how he got into the hall. His position on the all time rushing leaderboard is dropping. His career average is 3.9. His best seasons were 83 and 84. A ton of carries but the average isn't there(3.7 for the two years). Those who saw him play remember how he was used, especially in the 4th quarter. They ran him right up the gut, over and over again. They would have the lead and it was time for the "Riggo drill". Great for ball control. Great for winning the game. Not so great for Riggos stats.

Once again, as a ff player I love the stat game. Always have. When it comes time to draft, I give them the proper weight(they still aren't the end all to be all in ff. Still other factors but they are certainly the top priority) but when judging a team's play in the NFL or and individual's play, I've gotta look at much more than that. We tend to forget that when talking about FF 24/7/365. GM's aren't playing Fantasy ball. They can't afford to go by stats alone. For them it's a job. The REAL difference between Patton/Moss and Coles/Gardner on the field on game day when all things are considered is too insignificant to even talk about. And when you consider that the skins aren't planning on having Moss and Patten as their 1 and 2, it becomes even less of an issue.  Coles and Gardner WERE the one and two. Making the comparison now is pointless until you know who will be the 1 and 2 for the skins. We still have the draft and another round of fee agency. Lots can happen.

You keep saying that ON THE FIELD Moss and Patten are better players...how so?Are they better blockers?

Have more size?

Have more speed?

Better red zone threats?

Better downfield threats?

Run crisper routes?

Have better hands?

Score more touchdowns?

Been more productive?

Made more Pro Bowls?

I point out that the Skins were one of the three worst offenses a year ago, also show you in every imagineable way that tandem you're getting haven't done as much as the tandem you're losing...and you're saying I don't get it?

You're entitled to your opinion, but you should recognize that you need to bring more than "because I say so" to this forum. Maybe at other message boards that kind of schtick worked, but around here it won't be received well.

No, what I keep saying is that at best it's a wash except for the fact that, overall, they have more speed at the position. I'm also saying that the they haven't gotten a tandem yet. Patten is not a number one or two. Moss is not a number 1. To date, they don't have a "tandem". Maybe they'll not have a true number one. They certainly didn't last year. Maybe they draft a guy to fill the role. As it stands, they are about even (except that at least moss can be productive on special teams. Coles couldnt manage to produce at one job. The one he was being way overpaid to perform. I'll bring whatever I choose to the disucssion. IN this case, it's the knowledge of having watched all the games that the skins played (most of them twice) . And I have access to the same stats you do. So, in the end, I'm much more qualified to offer an opinion on this topic than one who only goes by the numbers.Coles caught 93 balls last year. If that's not clear evidence that the stats don't come close to tellign the story, don't know what is. How anybody can argue that two average wrs(at best they are average) on one of the worst offenses in the league (and one of the worst passing o's I've ever seen) are invaluable is beyond me. Jacobs and Mccants could have started and the team couldn't have possibly be much worse(in fact, they might have even been better).

Not responding to the deabte as it's clear what your position is. But, what is your hang up with the stats? Every post you've made since last night you keep telling us that "the stats don't tell the story". Why do you keep doing this? Let it go man.For the record, the stats are very meaningful as they tell us what did happen. That's why there's a score board. In fantasy football, everything is about stats. That's how we keep score. You make an excellent point about watching the game.

Further the stats help us evaluate how players are doing. We can then compare as part of the evaluation process. And OBTW-we also watch games.

So to tell us we shouldn't use stats is not only sac-religous but you'll lose credibility around here pretty quick.

Not trying to bust your chops but you seem to be busting ours over this. Thought it was time to provide you some insight as to what we do around here.

Damn! Why do those gms and coaches and players spend so much time watching film. ALl they really have to do is check the stats. btw-the discussion wasn't about fantasy ball. It was about whether or not the skins upgraded/downgraded or remain the same at the wr position. I dont' see fantasy value in any of those guys.The stats on coles lie about how he really did. He caugh 93 balls and had a terrible season. It was full of drops, missed blocks, poor rout running. Many(if not most) of his receptions were 2 yard sideline passes. He couldnt' even manage to hang onto them all. If you didn't watch the games and looked at the stats you wouldn;t know that. And feel free to bust my chops. I agreed to that when I started posting my opions. and, btw, I'm not new here. Been reading the board for years. Just had to respond to this thread for some reason. Call it boredom.

Well actually, we are talking fantasy. We've explained that to you but I guess you're just going to ignore us. Even though it was explained that stats are a part of the analyzing I guess you're going to ignore that too.

Now I know better than to discuss any fantasy with you. Thanks for clarifying.

False, the guy who made the original post that I responded to was NOT talking fantasy. He's claiming that the REDSKINS downgraded at WR and he posted stats that don't even reallytback up his claim to prove it(the stats about drops is funny but doesnt' tell the story). Not sure who the "We" is in your post but if you can't follow a discussion, best that you don't enter into it. Friendly advice. I read the posts. The guy with the meaningless stats didnt' watch the games and thinks he knows what he's talking about. Got it. I'll post examples that show that the stats don't show the half of it. I'll even give you some scenarios that further bolster this point if you like. A qb's stats are 20-50-100 yards and 5 picks. Whose fault was it? Do the stats tell you that? What if all of the passes were perfect and they wr's dropped them. What if the guy who saw the game told you that EVERY pick was a result of having perfect passes taken right from the arms of the wr? You'll only know this if you saw the game or read about it. If you took that information by itself without this knowledge and then made a fantasy decision based on it, you'd be a fool(and I'd really want you and your pals in my league).

Hey footballfan7,Up to this point I've tried to look past your smug remarks, but now I've about had it. Let me make this as simple as possible...explain in as succinct and convincing a manner as to a) WHY you think Moss + Patten are better than Coles + Gardner, and b) how "that guy" (which was me FYI) didn't summarily dismiss your flawed argument in not one, but countless ways.

Don't want to use stats? Great, tell us QUALITATIVELY how this tandem is better. DON'T mention Jansen, don't mention Gibbs being in year 2, don't mention the addition of another WR. That's not what this discussion was about...it was about all things being equal, which are the better two receivers. Use stats, don't use stats...take your pick.

But as I've told you several times now, if you're going to try to make a point and disagree with someone, you HAVE to back it up with more than your own personal declaration. "Because I say so" doesn't fly on this board. And let me remind you, for the 2nd time, that you keep harping on having seen Coles and Gardner play last year...IF you saw them as much as you contend, how could you have possibly seen Moss and Patten enough to confidently say they are better players? It's an impossibility unless you're about to tell us you've got breakdown of all the game film week in, week out.

We have a motto around here, "Be Excellent To Each Other." You claim to have lurked for a long time, so you shouldn't need to be told that. But keep this dismissive and completely unfounded defense of your position up, and you won't be asked, you'll be forced to find another board.

Have a great one

 

[nittanylion]

Diehard 'skins fan here. Sorry in advance for the hijack, but I've reached the end of my rope after hearing "The Sports Reporters" show today on local 980 AM. I needed to rant in thread where I'd find some 'skins fans who might help me bear the agony...The shenanigans going on here in DC concerning my once-proud franchise have reached an all-time high. I'm absolutely not kidding when I say that I'm so passionate in my fandom that the day to day activities of the Redskins tend to color my mood day in, day out - until now...I've mentioned in other threads that my Dad (God rest his soul), and his Army Buddies purchased a huge block of tickets in '37 when the 'skins moved here from Boston. I've loved the Redskins for as long as I can remember, and have attended at least half the home games every season since I was six (1974)... This week I've gone past the point of being frustrated, upset, furious etc, - I'm pretty much numb now, and I've pretty much resigned myself to the fate that's doubtless inevitable: It's going to be a looooooong time before we're vying for anything more than a chance to have a pick of our own in the bottom half of a round. The present state of our franchise is so completely corrupted (in FBG's terms, fla\/\/ed) from what it once was...man, our franchise has got to be the laughingstock of the League now...THE REDSKINS??? I thought I'd never see the day... it's a complete embarrassment.I keep trying to convince myself that somewhere in Redskins Park, behind closed doors, Snyder, Gibbs and Cerrato are reading and listening to all the criticism and scorn being thrown at them (and rightfully so, IMHO) and dancing a jig, saying "Boy, do we have them all fooled!!!". Yeah, right. Fat F'in' chance of that. Now I'm just praying that Gibbs resists the temptation to eat a bullet anytime in the near future. I can't even bear to think about how HE must be feeling right about now. What a freakin' train wreck.This is as bad as it's ever been. Man, even Jerry Jones learned from his early mistakes. Snyder has had more than enough time to see the light, and it hasn't come on. It ain't gonna. Man, do I hate him. Leopards don't change their spots. I wish he'd just go away.I drove to the stadium the other day, and just parked my car and looked at the thing. You know, there's not even a vestige of Burgundy and Gold? If you knew nothing about the team, and were attending a game for the first time, you'd be inclined to think the team colors were Green, Purple and Orange (think FedEx). Geez, the place looks like a carnival big top, and finally, it's appropriate! The Freak Show is now in full effect.Why, Why, WHY can't we have a qualified NFL General Manager running the football operations around here? We've got Vinnie Cerrato. You know, if Snyder/Gibbs fired him tomorrow he'd be done in the NFL for good. Unwanted and unhirable. Like boobs on a bull.Got my tickets for the Draft in the mail today, and I leave tomorrow to attend the Big Event. From what I gather, my 'Day 2 Diehard' seats are right in the front row, and chances are good you'll all see me at some point. I'll be the bald guy in the FBG's polo (thanks again, Joe ), looking either decidedly glum, or like I'm ready to jump on the stage and cause a ruckus...it could go either way...(I'll take the shirt off before I do anything rash, I promise)I love the Redskins, and watching them deteriorate into an absolute abomination really freakin' hurts...I think I need a hug...this sucks.

 

[Prime]

Diehard 'skins fan here. Sorry in advance for the hijack, but I've reached the end of my rope after hearing "The Sports Reporters" show today on local 980 AM. I needed to rant in thread where I'd find some 'skins fans who might help me bear the agony...

The shenanigans going on here in DC concerning my once-proud franchise have reached an all-time high. I'm absolutely not kidding when I say that I'm so passionate in my fandom that the day to day activities of the Redskins tend to color my mood day in, day out - until now...

I've mentioned in other threads that my Dad (God rest his soul), and his Army Buddies purchased a huge block of tickets in '37 when the 'skins moved here from Boston. I've loved the Redskins for as long as I can remember, and have attended at least half the home games every season since I was six (1974)...

This week I've gone past the point of being frustrated, upset, furious etc, - I'm pretty much numb now, and I've pretty much resigned myself to the fate that's doubtless inevitable: It's going to be a looooooong time before we're vying for anything more than a chance to have a pick of our own in the bottom half of a round.  The present state of our franchise is so completely corrupted (in FBG's terms, fla\/\/ed) from what it once was...man, our franchise has got to be the laughingstock of the League now...THE REDSKINS??? I thought I'd never see the day... it's a complete embarrassment.

I keep trying to convince myself that somewhere in Redskins Park, behind closed doors, Snyder, Gibbs and Cerrato are reading and listening to all the criticism and scorn being thrown at them (and rightfully so, IMHO) and dancing a jig, saying "Boy, do we have them all fooled!!!".  Yeah, right. Fat F'in' chance of that. Now I'm just praying that Gibbs resists the temptation to eat a bullet anytime in the near future. I can't even bear to think about how HE must be feeling right about now. What a freakin' train wreck.

This is as bad as it's ever been. Man, even Jerry Jones learned from his early mistakes. Snyder has had more than enough time to see the light, and it hasn't come on. It ain't gonna. Man, do I hate him. Leopards don't change their spots. I wish he'd just go away.

I drove to the stadium the other day, and just parked my car and looked at the thing. You know, there's not even a vestige of Burgundy and Gold? If you knew nothing about the team, and were attending a game for the first time, you'd be inclined to think the team colors were Green, Purple and Orange (think FedEx). Geez, the place looks like a carnival big top, and finally, it's appropriate! The Freak Show is now in full effect.

Why, Why, WHY can't we have a qualified NFL General Manager running the football operations around here? We've got Vinnie Cerrato. You know, if Snyder/Gibbs fired him tomorrow he'd be done in the NFL for good. Unwanted and unhirable. Like boobs on a bull.

Got my tickets for the Draft in the mail today, and I leave tomorrow to attend the Big Event. From what I gather, my 'Day 2 Diehard' seats are right in the front row, and chances are good you'll all see me at some point. I'll be the bald guy in the FBG's polo (thanks again, Joe    ), looking either decidedly glum, or like I'm ready to jump on the stage and cause a ruckus...it could go either way...(I'll take the shirt off before I do anything rash, I promise)

I love the Redskins, and watching them deteriorate into an absolute abomination really freakin' hurts...

I think I need a hug...this sucks.

Thank you. Yours truly, every Dallas Cowboy fan.

I'm actually Emailing this very post to my good Redskin fans.

:rubsSaltinWounds:

 

[Prime]

Can you guys just stop using the quotes please. I have been known to clog up a thread or two with some mud throwing but you guys are about to take up an entire page with past posts!

 

[CaptainHucklebuck]

Can you guys just stop using the quotes please. I have been known to clog up a thread or two with some mud throwing but you guys are about to take up an entire page with past posts!

Or at least learn how to use the quotes so we can all follow along?

 

[Jason Wood]

Sorry about that fellas, this guy just wouldn't take the hint.Personal Affronts + Not Backing Up Your Arguments + Not Accepting Our Terms of Service = LONG HIATUS

 

[fatness]

Can you guys just stop using the quotes please. I have been known to clog up a thread or two with some mud throwing but you guys are about to take up an entire page with past posts!

Amen, and it's not just this thread either. Those long boxes of quotes within quotes within quotes are ruining the readability of many good threads here. Nobody needs to see a foot and a half of quoted text above a one-paragraph reply.

 

[scoobygang]

Is this where we bash the Skins? Or should I report to the Portis leadership thread? 

Seriously, stranger things have happened in today's parity-laced NFL than the 2005 Skins making the playoffs. But their biggest talents are the guys sounding the least interested in getting on the field and making it happen. If I were a Washington fan (   at the thought), I'd be at least a little worried.

I think most of us are. Even those who have a history of being kind of Pollyannaish on our team. I'll say this, everytime I like a Skins offseason, they end up being a disappointment. So maybe if I'm completely and utterly mystified as I am this offseason, they'll play well. I don't mind their WRs per se, I think they'll be decent. But I'm not sold on Ramsey and I'm certainly not sold on the O-Line. Skins fans claim we have a top 10 O-Line on talent every year, yet we give up sacks and (last year) have an abysmal YPC. I do think Thomas has played well for them, but I don't think Samuels or Jansen have played up to their reps in several years.

 

[Family Matters]

Hey nittanylion:A big hug brother. I lived in the SC area for 10 years and it was fun watching Gibbs and the skins play football. They had a system with Bethard and then Casserly and Gibbs that worked. They knew how to draft (outside of the 1st round) and find players that played like 1st rounders. Kinda like the Pats do today. Anyway, I moved back to Ohio, Gibbs retired and the skins have methodically gone downhill ever since. It's gotten so bad that I prefer to watch the Browns & Bengals over the skins. Maybe someday they'll get their act together but even the great Gibbs can't fix this overnight. He'll need all 5 years of his deal to even get the ship turned into the wind so they can weigh anchor, fix the diesel and get back to cruising the Chesapeake Bay like before.

 

[stbugs]

Sorry about that fellas, this guy just wouldn't take the hint.

Personal Affronts + Not Backing Up Your Arguments + Not Accepting Our Terms of Service = LONG HIATUS

Jason,I agree with the Coles/Gardner > Moss/Patten, and I know that it is a good chance that Gardner is gone, but what if he stays or gets traded. Would you rather have Coles/Gardner than Gardner/Moss/Patten or Moss/Patten/Rookie, especially considering the whole foot issue and not wanting to play in DC? I live only a couple minutes from Redskin Park, so I get to watch a lot of games and Coles just didn't look like a speedy WR. Brunell was just brutal and Ramsey didn't seem to be allowed to throw deep, but Coles just looked slow and never seemed to get get away from the dbs.

 

[LHUCKS]

:aliasalert: ....

 

[Family Matters]

:aliasalert: ....

Looks like there might be a few. For those of you that don't already know it, there a few guys that have been encouraged to go elsewhere that have ended up on another MB. Posts there state they are trying to get back in under new aliases. They've been bragging about how they've fooled Shick and few mods. They're pretty proud about they've gotten over on them.All I can say is their life must be pretty pathetic and boring if that's what get's them off.

 

[redman]

I'm not necessarily sold on the Coles/Gardner < Moss/Patten/Jacobs theory - could happen, but who knows? - however I do have to say that there's a definite improvement in speed at that position and I'll be very interested to see how that affects the passing game.

 

[Jason Wood]

Sorry about that fellas, this guy just wouldn't take the hint.

Personal Affronts + Not Backing Up Your Arguments + Not Accepting Our Terms of Service = LONG HIATUS

He backed up his argument. And what he said is accurate. Looks like the hiatus wasn't all that long. You're not having a good day of it, are you?

If anyone knows footballfan7 personally and can get a message to him, kindly let him know that the absolute fastest way to get yourself IP banned it to alert us to the fact that you've created a new alias in an attempt to circumvent a time out. Long Hiatus just turned Permanent.

Have a great one.

 

[dannyboy]

The media and the Redskins. It's kind of an easy target. For one, the Washington Post and the Redskins are in a legitimate cat fight right now. The skins do not seem to agree with some of the facts in recent articles, and have held these pressers to get there side of the story out. Kind of odd. A few months ago, the Redskins took away season tickets from the Post, who had these seats for decades. The reason was for something about Post employees not using them and then selling them to ticket brokers. ESPN... it's no secret that Lenny P. has something against the Skins. If he has a chance to report something that shines a bad light, it will be reported!! LOL.What I find funny is how people in the media give Gibbs a free pass on this, and still hammer away at Danny and Cerato. Gibbs is running this show, and to think otherwise is silly. If Snyder steps in to get a contract signed, it's still with Gibbs approval to bring that player on the team. In the end, it's about winning. I'm in the camp that I'd be surprised if they picked Campbell, because Gibbs needs to worry about winning this year, not 2-3 years down the line.

 

[GregR_2]

If anyone knows footballfan7 personally and can get a message to him, kindly let him know that the absolute fastest way to get yourself IP banned it to alert us to the fact that you've created a new alias in an attempt to circumvent a time out.

Long Hiatus just turned Permanent.

Have a great one.

Hey Jason, not sure where/how to submit this, or how feasible it is with this software, but could you guys look into making it so quoting a previous post won't include more than like 3 levels of encapsulated quotes?I don't understand why some people can't figure out how to highlight the quotes they don't need and delete them, but it is getting to the point it's affecting the readability of threads.

 

[beefcake]

The skins are doomed.