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Religion/Theology: Who do you read or listen to? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter dgreen
- Start date
johnnycakes
Footballguy
Took a course in college named "Pierre Teilhard de Chardin and some theologies of evolution", as I recall. Taught by a Jesuit priest we all called "Sky King". Seemed like a bunch of bunk to me.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Pretty sneaky starting a religion thread once they close the Politics Forum.
Should go well.
Should go well.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Religion has always been fine in the FFA. We were able to talk about religion like adults for nearly a decade in this forum.
Ron Swanson
Footballguy
Greg Graffin
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
Currently reading Dr Richard Carrier's "On the Historicity of Jesus." He argues that Jesus is a mythical character, similar to the prominent characters in the Old Testament.
Beef Ravioli Part 2
Footballguy
I don’t know a lot about this guy, but he has an interesting sports connection. He is very passionate about his faith:
markcahill.org
I listen to this guy some, more of his YouTube videos than his podcast:
Books | Mark Cahill Ministries
I listen to this guy some, more of his YouTube videos than his podcast:
I Don't Have Enough FAITH to Be an ATHEIST on Apple Podcasts
Religion & Spirituality · 2022
podcasts.apple.com
dgreen
Footballguy
I'm currently reading NT Wright for the first time. I don't do a lot of reading, so this has been a little more challenging simply from a reading comprehension level, but I'm enjoying it so far.
I've read a few books (and listened to a ton of podcasts) this year by Rabbi David Fohrman. I really like his stuff. Easy to read and he has some brilliant insights into the Torah.
I've read a few books (and listened to a ton of podcasts) this year by Rabbi David Fohrman. I really like his stuff. Easy to read and he has some brilliant insights into the Torah.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I read one of his books on the resurrection a few years ago. The argument itself wasn't that complicated -- his claim was that the existence of the New Testament was itself good evidence of the resurrection, which is an argument that lots of people have made. But this was a book-length treatment of that argument that went down a number of (necessary, admittedly) rabbit holes in an effort to be comprehensive, which made it kind of unwieldy. I didn't need 50 pages or whatever on how ancient Greek drama reflected/informed first-century AD views of the permanency of death.
dgreen
Footballguy
I'm reading Surprised By Hope. He talks a lot about how his arguments are more fleshed out in other writings, which I assume is what you read. I'm more interested in how he's going to approach the concept of Heaven and Kingdom and after life and the cultural context in that understanding. For example, I listened to a podcast that referenced his work in Surprised by Hope on "parousia", which we typically translate as second coming, and how that word had a very specific context in their world. I think that comes much later in the book, so I'm not there yet, but he has some interesting points early in the book about how much of today's Christian view of the after life is more Platonism than Scriptural.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
This is why we keep reinventing Gnosticism every few generations. Our culture is drenched in Platonism (I'm no exception). Judaism is a weird fit for that, but Gnosticism fits just fine.
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Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
You forgot, Letter to a Christian Nation.
All good books. More of my tribe should read them.
The Commish
Footballguy
Any of Greg Boyd's books. Myth of a Christian Nation is a good place to start and Letters to a Skeptic is one of my favorite books.
dgreen
Footballguy
Yeah, I like what I hear from our two main preachers. One of them is one key reason my interest in the Bible started to increase several years ago. Both are good to have conversations with.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Andy Stanley's new book, Not In It To Win It is very good.
steelerfan1
Footballguy
Just started Person of Interest by J. Warner Wallace.
Yup.
Thanks. Can you give a few thoughts on it and what you liked?
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Andy has been on tear with the political aspect of American Christianity and its, in his opinion which I share, direct opposition to the gospel.
So it's a, hey - Christians, knock it off and do what Jesus told you to do not what your political party scares you into doing.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Yes. Only in long book form and not nearly as many pulled punches.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Thanks. I haven't read much in this genre in quite a while, so I picked this up on Amazon. Not sure exactly when I'll get to it.
I bought it but sadly like too many other books I've bought, I haven't read yet.
He's an outstanding communicator though.
dgreen
Footballguy
My main exposure to Andy Stanley is those who argue against his supposed lessening of the OT. However, I have seen him interviewed by one of the critics, and friends (Rabbi Matt Rosenberg, author of Jesus Never Said Anything New - good book, great title!), and it was a good conversation and he seems like a really good dude who is trying his best to lead.
Like I said earlier, I've never done much reading. Honestly, prior to this year, I could probably count on both hands the number of books I've finished in my life. However, this year, I've read 14 books (yes, I'm keeping track
) and have so many on my to-read list. Some day I'll have to make room for Andy Stanley because I know a lot of people like him.
Like I said earlier, I've never done much reading. Honestly, prior to this year, I could probably count on both hands the number of books I've finished in my life. However, this year, I've read 14 books (yes, I'm keeping track
) and have so many on my to-read list. Some day I'll have to make room for Andy Stanley because I know a lot of people like him.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
For reasons too detailed to mention I studied a lot of Andy's sermons and books over the past few years. I am well aware of the issue some have with his messages on the Old Testament. I watched those sermons and read the books. My personal opinion is that, again to me, the people that attack him on that point completely missed his point. Frankly, what he said seems rather obvious to me. But what to do I know.My main exposure to Andy Stanley is those who argue against his supposed lessening of the OT. However, I have seen him interviewed by one of the critics, and friends (Rabbi Matt Rosenberg, author of Jesus Never Said Anything New - good book, great title!), and it was a good conversation and he seems like a really good dude who is trying his best to lead.
Like I said earlier, I've never done much reading. Honestly, prior to this year, I could probably count on both hands the number of books I've finished in my life. However, this year, I've read 14 books (yes, I'm keeping track
On The Rocks
Footballguy
About 10 years ago I was introduced (by my brother-in-law) to the ministry of a guy named Andrew Farley. He pastors a small church in the Dallas area but the ministry "The Grace Message" is pretty large. He can be heard on SiriusXM, and I believe he has a time slot on TBN. At the time I was in what I would call an Independent Fundamentalist church. When I first heard him speak, I thought he was a joke, and very misleading. He is by his own definition a "Hyper Grace" guy.
I had always been taught that if we have a relationship with Christ, we can't lose that relationship, but we can lose fellowship with Him. I don't know if that's a teaching familiar to anyone here. Anyway, Farley teaches that you Relationship and Fellowship in scripture are the same and there is no loss of either when we sin, and that was my first taste of his teaching, and it didn't sit well with me, but a lot of his other teaching was intriguing. So, I argued against some of his teaching for about 5 years but was greatly challenged by some of his other teaching. His position on sin nature, and the new heart of a Christian. and our identity in Christ were teachings I had never heard before, and he used scripture after scripture to support anything and everything he taught and always managed to convince me that he was teaching nothing out of context. Finally, I left the church I had been a layperson leader in for 27 years. That church and it's fundamentalist teaching to me was just too "rules and standards" based mixing law with grace, and at that time in my life, I was more interested in talking to others that came to church about Christ, and most of the members had somewhere along the way decided it was more important to discuss the politics of the nation over the value of scripture. I was and still am politically very conservative but grew tired of bringing unchurched friends to church only for them to hear about failures of the progressive left. It wasn't the time or place in my opinion.
So anyway, that led me to a new church, that is probably a little less conservative than I care for, but the Pastor is significantly more interested in meeting the lost where they are rather than knowing which side of the aisle they lean.
Sorry......I'm going off my main point.....Andrew Farley.
I have become an avid listener of his podcast, which is a mix of a nightly call in Q&A program, and his Sunday sermons.
He has written several books, but the two that I'm currently switching between are titled "Twisted Scripture" and "101 Bible Questions" and I have a third book of his "The Naked Gospel" waiting to be read eventually.
I had always been taught that if we have a relationship with Christ, we can't lose that relationship, but we can lose fellowship with Him. I don't know if that's a teaching familiar to anyone here. Anyway, Farley teaches that you Relationship and Fellowship in scripture are the same and there is no loss of either when we sin, and that was my first taste of his teaching, and it didn't sit well with me, but a lot of his other teaching was intriguing. So, I argued against some of his teaching for about 5 years but was greatly challenged by some of his other teaching. His position on sin nature, and the new heart of a Christian. and our identity in Christ were teachings I had never heard before, and he used scripture after scripture to support anything and everything he taught and always managed to convince me that he was teaching nothing out of context. Finally, I left the church I had been a layperson leader in for 27 years. That church and it's fundamentalist teaching to me was just too "rules and standards" based mixing law with grace, and at that time in my life, I was more interested in talking to others that came to church about Christ, and most of the members had somewhere along the way decided it was more important to discuss the politics of the nation over the value of scripture. I was and still am politically very conservative but grew tired of bringing unchurched friends to church only for them to hear about failures of the progressive left. It wasn't the time or place in my opinion.
So anyway, that led me to a new church, that is probably a little less conservative than I care for, but the Pastor is significantly more interested in meeting the lost where they are rather than knowing which side of the aisle they lean.
Sorry......I'm going off my main point.....Andrew Farley.
I have become an avid listener of his podcast, which is a mix of a nightly call in Q&A program, and his Sunday sermons.
He has written several books, but the two that I'm currently switching between are titled "Twisted Scripture" and "101 Bible Questions" and I have a third book of his "The Naked Gospel" waiting to be read eventually.
I like Andy Stanley a lot. World class communicator.
For books, I'm a fan of Tim Keller. We call him our "Presbyterian Pope". Thoughtful but still accessible.
Stoneworker
Footballguy
The works of Joseph Campbell in the field of comparative theology/mythology were a game-changer for me.
Not only was Campbell among the first to reveal common themes within all the major organized religions, he broadened it to reveal why some of our most popular dramatic works (e.g. Wizard of Oz, Star Wars) are steeped in mythological concepts and archetypes (e.g. The Hero's Journey).
The 1988 Bill Moyers interviews were classic
Not only was Campbell among the first to reveal common themes within all the major organized religions, he broadened it to reveal why some of our most popular dramatic works (e.g. Wizard of Oz, Star Wars) are steeped in mythological concepts and archetypes (e.g. The Hero's Journey).
The 1988 Bill Moyers interviews were classic
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Not counting weekly sermons, listen to no one.
As for reading it is pretty random. There is no "go to" list of authors or must read books, but more likely random web searches. Reading true believers, "weak" believers, skeptics, and those hostile. I prefer to have my beliefs "questioned" and not reinforced, but that isn't too hard. Not unusual to love something from someone on a site or blog, and then hate the next thing clicked by the same person. Recently read the entire site that @zoonation linked in the other thread. And then off to reading this, as evident by some posts in that thread. Biblegateway usually has one or two free commentaries - or at least used to. So, like I said rather random. Depending on the mood of the day, topic of the day, and what Google and even Wikipedia delivers. Occasionally an actual book by someone, but usually my reading is less organized than that would be.
As for reading it is pretty random. There is no "go to" list of authors or must read books, but more likely random web searches. Reading true believers, "weak" believers, skeptics, and those hostile. I prefer to have my beliefs "questioned" and not reinforced, but that isn't too hard. Not unusual to love something from someone on a site or blog, and then hate the next thing clicked by the same person. Recently read the entire site that @zoonation linked in the other thread. And then off to reading this, as evident by some posts in that thread. Biblegateway usually has one or two free commentaries - or at least used to. So, like I said rather random. Depending on the mood of the day, topic of the day, and what Google and even Wikipedia delivers. Occasionally an actual book by someone, but usually my reading is less organized than that would be.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
While not really theology or religion-
Since I have recently posted in the latest How to get to Heaven thread, I guess I should point out the obvious. I have been addicted to Bart Ehrman's blog since about March. While I've seen him in the past as one of the standard sets of talking heads on various bible or early Christianity related documentaries, I had only dabbled in his writings. But while his skill sets and religious beliefs "aren't me", his blog entries keep my interest. They challenge my beliefs, but since I've never been on the inerrant train of thought they don't threaten them but enhance them. I get this is not for everyone, but I doubt I'll be able to help keeping things from there out of my post. I failed in the earlier mentioned posts yesterday. Sorry!
ETA: One of the themes he has posted a bit is that when one tries to harmonize the various accounts of the same story in the bible you are actually dismissing what the authors are actually trying to tell us. I long understood for example that when say the stories are from different perspectives that it shouldn't mean that Luke writes about Jesus' carrying of the cross from the perspective of being an eyewitness at the very beginning of the journey when Jesus is all confident that "he's got this", and Mark is in the middle somewhere where Jesus is quietly struggling to catch his breath before getting his second wind to triumphantly pass by John in the grandstands. But instead, Mark is placing the story into a context that would resonate with his audience and Luke his and John his and I guess I'm forgetting Matthew's. So, I guess at some level I already knew this, but not at a level to articulate it.
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dgreen
Footballguy
I read How Jesus Became God. I thought it was good. While I disagreed with some things, I appreciated the historical context of the early church. I was expecting a very adversarial book because of how I've heard Christians bad-mouth Ehrman, but I found his approach to be very respectful.
I heard him make the same point about contradictions on a podcast with Peter Enns. It was nice to hear him say that because I think the view of him is that his only goal is to tear down the Bible. However, I think he's trying to get Christians to move beyond harmonization and towards a deeper understanding of the author's (inspired) theological message.
E Street Brat
Footballguy
I'm around day 150 of The Bible in a Year podcast.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Gentleman and retired Pastor I play tennis with wrote this book recently
whoknew
Footballguy
I'm not religious but I follow Fr. James Martin on twitter and read a fair amount of what he writes. I find him to be thoughtful and interesting. He's a Jesuit priest and I've generally found Jesuits to be pretty thoughtful as a whole. Education and scholarship is a big part of their mission.
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
We're probably on the same page, but I'm having a negative reaction to your use of the phrase "I think he's trying to get Christians to." I'm a BE junkie and I've never felt he was trying to do anything other than be a historian and teacher of the New Testament and early Christianity. I don't believe he has an agenda, nor is he interested in debating the theology other than in the context of what early Christians believed and what the biblical author's intent might have been.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
As stated I found the blog in March. I've been reading the current entries, mostly the New Testament in a nutshell type posts, and reading forward from the start of blog, which coincidentally was ...
... when this book was written. In several of the posts during this period the blog was used to more or less "think out loud" so while I haven't read that book yet, I think if and when I do I'll have a feeling of being there.
I'm almost done with 2013. A few days I hit this entry (which I think is not members only, and it is the fourth paragraph to the end I'm pointing to.)
A Rather Serious Mistake | The Bart Ehrman Blog
In my previous post I started answering the question of why there may be contradictions/discrepancies/differences within the works of a single author. Weren’t they careful? Didn’t they see the problem? I mentioned that sometimes it may be that with someone like Paul, since his letters...
ehrmanblog.org
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Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Not religious, but I did find Falling Upward by Richard Rohr fairly interesting.
whoknew
Footballguy
dgreen
Footballguy
I’ve heard good things about him. Of course, I’ve also heard complaints about him from the more conservative/fundamental side of Christianity. I will get to him someday.
