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Respectfully Calling Out Wood, Wimer, Haseley, Norton, Tremblay (1 Viewer)

'Skeletore Eh said:
So for the sake of discussion, with all these rumors currently out there, what does everyone think of Moss' potential if he does end up with the Jets?
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Depends on whether he gets a brain transplant or not.It is certainly possible for a great WR to still be significantly productive at age 34. But, it requires a different style of play and a higher level of effort. Jerry Rice at 34 (108/1254/8) was a lot different than Jerry Rice at 24 (86/1570/15). Randy Moss at 33 could no longer blow by defenders on fly patterns. He's still pretty fast, but he's no longer the fastest player on the field. And in 2010, he pretty much didn't run any routes other than fly patterns, which is why his stats sucked and two teams fired him. So the question is, will Randy Moss be on a team which puts him in a position to play almost every down, and gives him the full responsibilities of the WR position, and will he accept that challenge and work on revising his game to fit his aging body? Because if all those things don't happen, Moss won't be worth more than WR75. If they do happen, he clearly will be worth more than that. I'm in the camp that thinks that Moss is ready to take his ball and go home.
 
NY Post via Rotoworld:

Randy Moss - WR - TitansThe New York Post is the latest media outlet to report, citing a league source, that the Jets are a very possible destination for free agent Randy Moss.We've been tracking the number of reporters saying the same. They include the NY Daily News' Manish Mehta, ESPN's Rich Cimini, CBS' Mike Freeman, NFL.com's Vic Carucci, the Boston Globe's Greg Bedard, and PFT's Mike Florio. Either there is a blazing fire behind this smoke, or the Jets have concocted an elaborate scheme to get free agent Braylon Edwards' price tag down.Related: JetsSource: New York PostMay 24, 12:52 PM
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'Couch Potato said:
This raises the larger question of rankings philosophy in general.

Does one rank based on expected end of season stats?

Or does one rank based on beginning of season role and opportunity?

Last year I was railing against so many of the staff giving a high ranking to Jabar Gaffney, and I proposed that while he seemed like the best Bronco to have to begin the season, he'd be supplanted before long and become just a minor complementary guy. As it turned out he had 5 or more catches in 4 of the first six weeks and not another 5 + catch game the rest of the year. Those who drafted him as a top 20 WR and held him blew it. Those who did so and then dealt him before he lost value, or avoided him altogether, were much better off.

I've always wanted to look beyond week 1 and deeper into the season. A nominal starter like Gaffney last year isn't going to help you come playoff time. He finished WR43 but did most of that in Weeks 3-6.
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What kind of scoring are you referencing him as WR43?PPR he was WR23

 
'Captain Hook said:
'Couch Potato said:
This raises the larger question of rankings philosophy in general.

Does one rank based on expected end of season stats?

Or does one rank based on beginning of season role and opportunity?

Last year I was railing against so many of the staff giving a high ranking to Jabar Gaffney, and I proposed that while he seemed like the best Bronco to have to begin the season, he'd be supplanted before long and become just a minor complementary guy. As it turned out he had 5 or more catches in 4 of the first six weeks and not another 5 + catch game the rest of the year. Those who drafted him as a top 20 WR and held him blew it. Those who did so and then dealt him before he lost value, or avoided him altogether, were much better off.

I've always wanted to look beyond week 1 and deeper into the season. A nominal starter like Gaffney last year isn't going to help you come playoff time. He finished WR43 but did most of that in Weeks 3-6.
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What kind of scoring are you referencing him as WR43?PPR he was WR23
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FBG scoring. Site lists his rank.http://subscribers.footballguys.com/players/GaffJa00-2.php

 
Figured I'd ask here instead of starting a new thread...

What's up with Waldman's dynasty rankings? Rodgers, Brees, Peyton, Rivers, and Brady are great players but 1-5 overall? CJ #11? I assume this is a glitch, can you fix it?

 
Rice is the best of all time. One could argue for Hutson but arguing for Moss is when I walk away, roll my eyes and mumble someone escaped the looney bin and alert the authorities.

'LHUCKS said:
I noticed you don't have arguably the best WR of all time ranked in your top 75 WRs?Assuming you are aware of his 13 TD 1260 yard 2009 season(age 32), clearly you are justifying your non-ranking of Mr. Moss solely on the basis of his 2010 "transitional" year.What say ye Mr. Wood? Mr. Wimer? Mr. Haseley? Mr. Norton? Mr. Tremblay?Defend thy self!!
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'We Tigers said:
'Dez said:
I loved when everyone said Moss was left for dead after his 2006 season. I drafted him in the 4th/5th rounds of 8 straight leagues that year winning 4 titles thanks to his historic perforamce.Owens was supposed to be dead last year. He was well worth the 14th round pick I took him at.
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I seem to remember last year's TO spotlight thread being chock full of 1000-1100 yard and 7-8 TD predictions. Wasn't the conventional wisdom that Cincinnati was a hugely improved destination for him over Buffalo?
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T.O. was a top 10 receiver before he went down with an injury. I think he was even top three for a few weeks in the middle of the season. Huge value last year.
 
'LHUCKS said:
'sho nuff said:
'LHUCKS said:
Told ya so...LHUCKS, providing a free education for this forum since this forum.

Moss in Freakish shape
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Going told you so because the agent of a free agent is saying his clinent is in great shape?http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Should-we-buy-into-the-agent-hype-on-Randy-Moss.html
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consider it a sign of things to come. :cash:
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You saying more ridiculous things and living in denial when they are proven otherwise (see the Hawk thread where you proclaim him the BOD but call Leinart and Bush sure things...also your claims on the talent level of Greg Jennings).
 
'Jason Wood said:
LHUCKS,You are the master at fishing expeditions disguised as legitimate dialog. Believing this is firmly in the former and not the latter, I was going to avoid this thread.But for those who maybe aren't clear about things, we ranks players on our expectations for their FULL YEAR rankings. Many of us, myself included, do detailed player by player projections and use those to create our rankings.Given the labor situation, there are many players unsigned and/or potentially without clear roles. I have elected to hold off ranking anyone I think has a completely uncertain role with their current team, but don't know where they'll end up. For example, I suspect that when the dust settles, QBs like Matt Hasselbeck, Donovan McNabb and Kevin Kolb will have important roles somewhere, and that will reflect in my rankings once we know where they end up. But for now? Hasselbeck has a shot at staying in Seattle so I'm projecting him but McNabb isn't staying in DC and Kolb is Vick's backup. Now as to Moss specifically? I've been as big a Moss defender as anyone on Earth but I have serious questions about where he's going to play, if anywhere, this year. If he signs somewhere, I'll re-evaluate.
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Suggestion. Maybe the site could add a list of players who were not ranked yet due to situation, but that the person believes would make the list of how ever many are displayed when the situation is better known? If someone were drafting from such a list, it would be nice to have that list of guys who aren't included so they can decide themselves where to put them.
 
'zoonation said:
'We Tigers said:
'Dez said:
I loved when everyone said Moss was left for dead after his 2006 season. I drafted him in the 4th/5th rounds of 8 straight leagues that year winning 4 titles thanks to his historic perforamce.Owens was supposed to be dead last year. He was well worth the 14th round pick I took him at.
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I seem to remember last year's TO spotlight thread being chock full of 1000-1100 yard and 7-8 TD predictions. Wasn't the conventional wisdom that Cincinnati was a hugely improved destination for him over Buffalo?
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T.O. was a top 10 receiver before he went down with an injury. I think he was even top three for a few weeks in the middle of the season. Huge value last year.
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:goodposting:
 
'LHUCKS said:
I noticed you don't have arguably the best WR of all time ranked in your top 75 WRs?Assuming you are aware of his 13 TD 1260 yard 2009 season(age 32), clearly you are justifying your non-ranking of Mr. Moss solely on the basis of his 2010 "transitional" year.What say ye Mr. Wood? Mr. Wimer? Mr. Haseley? Mr. Norton? Mr. Tremblay?Defend thy self!!
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:lmao: Hucks, how on earth can you be so wrong so often? We could flip a coin 100 times with you calling tails every time and the coin would somehow manage coming up heads 99 out of 100 times. Can we get your week one locks of the decade asap please?
 
'BassNBrew said:
'LHUCKS said:
I noticed you don't have arguably the best WR of all time ranked in your top 75 WRs?Assuming you are aware of his 13 TD 1260 yard 2009 season(age 32), clearly you are justifying your non-ranking of Mr. Moss solely on the basis of his 2010 "transitional" year.What say ye Mr. Wood? Mr. Wimer? Mr. Haseley? Mr. Norton? Mr. Tremblay?Defend thy self!!
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:lmao: Hucks, how on earth can you be so wrong so often? We could flip a coin 100 times with you calling tails every time and the coin would somehow manage coming up heads 99 out of 100 times. Can we get your week one locks of the decade asap please?
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Oh come on now...those guys didn't know moss was gonna retire. Just because they were technically right, and exactly correct in their projections, and lhucks absolutely takes egg on his face here in that he was soooooooo wrong, doesn't mean it should have worked out that way. These staff guys just got reallly lucky.
 
'BassNBrew said:
Hucks, how on earth can you be so wrong so often?
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I make a call on every single player/situation pretty much. If I was right every time it wouldn't be fun.Nice job by the staff getting lucky here...who knew that half the GMs in the NFL are morons?Moss has plenty left in the tank and will still have an impact in the NFL...watch.
 
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'LHUCKS said:
I noticed you don't have arguably the best WR of all time ranked in your top 75 WRs?Assuming you are aware of his 13 TD 1260 yard 2009 season(age 32), clearly you are justifying your non-ranking of Mr. Moss solely on the basis of his 2010 "transitional" year.What say ye Mr. Wood? Mr. Wimer? Mr. Haseley? Mr. Norton? Mr. Tremblay?Defend thy self!!
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How do you like your crow, baked or fried :banned:
 
'moleculo said:
'BassNBrew said:
'LHUCKS said:
I noticed you don't have arguably the best WR of all time ranked in your top 75 WRs?Assuming you are aware of his 13 TD 1260 yard 2009 season(age 32), clearly you are justifying your non-ranking of Mr. Moss solely on the basis of his 2010 "transitional" year.What say ye Mr. Wood? Mr. Wimer? Mr. Haseley? Mr. Norton? Mr. Tremblay?Defend thy self!!
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:lmao: Hucks, how on earth can you be so wrong so often? We could flip a coin 100 times with you calling tails every time and the coin would somehow manage coming up heads 99 out of 100 times. Can we get your week one locks of the decade asap please?
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Oh come on now...those guys didn't know moss was gonna retire. Just because they were technically right, and exactly correct in their projections, and lhucks absolutely takes egg on his face here in that he was soooooooo wrong, doesn't mean it should have worked out that way. These staff guys just got reallly lucky.
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They explained why he was lower in these first rankings (since he was not even on a team)...looks like they were right in ranking him lower based on that risk...and anyone who listened to Levi and already drafted likely overspent big time.
 
Retirement announcement or not, am I the only one who thinks Moss will play somewhere this season? It only takes one injury and a phone call.

 
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'LHUCKS said:
'BassNBrew said:
Hucks, how on earth can you be so wrong so often?
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I make a call on every single player/situation pretty much. If I was right every time it wouldn't be fun.Nice job by the staff getting lucky here...who knew that half the GMs in the NFL are morons?

Moss has plenty left in the tank and will still have an impact in the NFL...watch.
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Or maybe they, along with everyone, know more than you? How can they get lucky, if your the one calling them out, and now you look foolish.
 
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'Anthony Borbely said:
Retirement announcement or not, am I the only one who thinks Moss will play somewhere this season? It only takes one injury and a phone call.
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If Calvin got hurt for a month, would you want the Lions to bring him in? As a Niner fan, I'd welcome TO. Despite his personal baggage I think he's still got some gas in the tank. Moss I would not want. TO appears to have mellowed a bit in his age but he's always been a hard worker and someone who works his butt off/hustles every play. I'd love to have that example shown to my young wr's.
 
I love watching LHUCKS fail as much as anyone, but it's a little overboard to say the staffers got this one "right." As I understand it, it's FBG policy to not project stats for a player with an unknown future; they didn't correctly "predict" that Moss would have zero stats this year. Until it was clear where he was going to play, they just weren't going to make a projection at all. They do the same for every player, it's not like they had some incredible foresight about Randy Moss's value (or lack thereof) this season.

If their policy had been different (i.e. if they were required to project stats for Moss this season) it's entirely possible that many staffers would have come up with something similar to LHUCKS's projections. LHUCKS isn't wrong because Moss retired. If, on the other hand, Moss had signed somewhere and totally failed to produce at the levels he predicted, we could say he was wrong, but that hasn't happened.

 
'Anthony Borbely said:
Retirement announcement or not, am I the only one who thinks Moss will play somewhere this season? It only takes one injury and a phone call.
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Good point AB. Moss may very well resurface before the season is over. The possibility, certainly cannot be ruled out.What also can't be ruled out is Moss' disregard for taking care of himself and lack of respect for the game. He was a shell of himself last year and this cannot be blamed soley on the teams he played for. A WR starved Titans team couldn't even get him on the field he was so bad. Can't/won't run routes besides a go route and no longer has the transcendent speed that used to allow him to still have success playing that way.LHUCKS has always been an unabashed Moss supporter. And to his credit, he sticks to his guns. But the man crush all too often clouds the thinking. Moss is no longer a difference maker as a WR, and any chance he ever had of challenging Rice as the best WR of all time was lost years ago (circa the Raiders days), followed by a brief flash with the Patriots. Moss certainly had the talent to eclipse Rice. That much is evident. But for anyone who looks at his career impartially, what is equally evident is the extent to which Moss squandered his talent due to his lack of professionalism. This and the mental/physical preparation is where Rice laps Moss by a country mile.The bottom line for this year is that even if he does sign with a team he is no longer an elite target (or even close for that matter). Best case he might be a red zone target as a 2nd or 3rd WR somewhere. Fantasy best case? WR3/WR4... and a lot will have to happen for that to be realized.
 
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'LHUCKS said:
'Couch Potato said:
'LHUCKS said:
I noticed you don't have arguably the best WR of all time ranked in your top 70?Assuming you are aware of his 13 TD 1260 yard 2009 season, clearly you are justifying your non-ranking of Mr. Moss solely on the basis of his 2010 "transitional" year.What say ye Mr. Wood and Mr. Wimer?Defend thy self!!
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Hi LHUCKS,I know they can answer for themselves, but I've asked this sort of question in the past and the answer I've received is that many do their rankings based on facts known now, not in anticipation of things still to unfold over the off season. So, once Moss finds a team he'd be ranked based on where he lands.I assume (hope?) this is also why a guy like Brandon LaFell, for example, is unranked by EVERYONE even though Steve Smith will not be a Panther when the season begins and LaFell's value will see a large increase when Smith's status changes.To me, rankings ought to reflect a best guess RIGHT NOW as to end of 2001 results, including speculation as to future player movement, since this is all about speculation anyway. That would obviously include Moss in there somewhere.
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Perfect, no wonder why the drafting has been so atrocious in the SSLs. Let's hope the rankings remain and I can continue to draft Randy Moss as the 200th player off the board and as my WR#5. :thumbup:
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RB1 - Frank Gore (7)RB2 - Jonathan Stewart(9)RB3 - Roy Helu (5)Shallow by design so I could load up at WR. Gore and Stewart have top 5 RB upside and Helu will prove to be the best pick of this draft. I'll say that one more time. Helu will prove to be the best pick of this draft. Thanks for the gift. I may have considered a #4 RB but the runningbacks were going way too early in this draft...there was no value to be had(except for Helu of course.) There is admittedly some injury risk here. Also, I almost drafted Reggie Bush instead of Moss so I may regret that...Moss may have been around one more round. If I can avoid injury this could be the top scoring RB group in the league.
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Atrocious is correct.
 
10-team. 20 round draft. i took R.Moss in 18th round. No-brainer. Moss with a vengeance is a guy you want even for 10 regular season games. you can have t. choice.

 
'Daywalker said:
10-team. 20 round draft. i took R.Moss in 18th round. No-brainer. Moss with a vengeance is a guy you want even for 10 regular season games. you can have t. choice.
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Vengeance for what? The only person that seems to have done Randy wrong is Randy.
 
LHUCKS is an absolute train wreck. Consistently wrong. Not that he'll show up in any of these threads though.

My personal fav is his "pissing excellence" thread, where he went out of survivor in round 1.

 
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