FairWarning
Footballguy
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Restaurants have gotten so expensive……also recycling and phone apps (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter fruity pebbles
- Start date
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Wife and I have considered it a few times but I usually have been a little disappointed with French food. We are doing Ladder 4 in 2 weeks. I am excited about that, it's supposed to be excellent. Tried that yet?
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Yeah a good server is important- can make or break the experience some times.
the moops
Footballguy
Looks like that place has $69 hash browns. Please order those and come back here and complain
FairWarning
Footballguy
Trends from behind the bar I’ve noticed - People definitely cutting back on that last drink. Regulars are not coming in every day anymore, more like every other day. Much more food to-go, cheaper to drink at home.
If you have a bartender or waitstaff that can sell craft alcohol or wine, they will make you a fortune.
If you have a bartender or waitstaff that can sell craft alcohol or wine, they will make you a fortune.
New Binky the Doormat
Footballguy
walleye with morels - I'm in
Drunken knight
Footballguy
Dinner | Le Suprême
www.lesupremedetroit.com
I am liking the options. every category seems a little high (so i would expect excellent quality/execution) .
mussels, macaroni, and escargot are the best "values" on the menu.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
That’s a little deceiving. It’s really a caviar dish.
the moops
Footballguy
Pfft. it says hash browns!!
Ilov80s
Footballguy
That's what I would for sure order today at Ladder 4 but there menu changes often so who knows what it will be when I go in 2 weeks.
Dan Lambskin
Footballguy
No adding it to the list but quick glance at the menu I don’t see a ton of stuff she’d like
I’ll pretty much eat / try anything, she’s much less adventurous
Here’s the current list of places I’m hoping to try this year
| Bar Pigale - brunch | ||||||
| Couer | ||||||
| The Highlands | ||||||
| Oak and Reel | ||||||
| Mabel Gray | ||||||
| Phonecia | ||||||
| Leila | ||||||
| She Wolf | ||||||
| Ladder 4 |
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Ladder 4 menu changes almost weekly- maybe daily (I think) so you just never know what exactly you are going to get. I thought Leila was overhyped but maybe it was just me, the other 3 loved it and keep bringing it up for a return visit. She Wolf was very good but my expectations were maybe too high. I want to go back though. Mabel Gray was awesome but that's been like a really long time. I do remember it was basically just whatever the chef wanted to serve that day with limited choice so that could be tough for your wife. It's tough keeping up with all these places. Albena is closing and I never even got around to it. The chef there had an incredible tasting restaurant in Ferndale I think. The kind of place where everything was made with tweezers in a kitchen the size of my bedroom closet. The name escapes me at the moment but I am bummed I missesd out on Albena. Have you tried Dixboro Project? It's quite good if you are ever out near Plymouth/Ann Arbor. The mushroom pizza is to die for.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Modern Roman cuisine- the whole wolf that Romulus and Remus suckled from.
Dan Lambskin
Footballguy
Surprised Albena is closing already, I suggested trying it over Christmas but we never got around to it
No on dixboro, we don’t get out that way a ton but it’s not really that much farther than downtown for us. Will look into it
Detroit dining scene has really exploded over the last 5-10 years though, way more places than ill ever get to try
NutterButter
Footballguy
That's the new trend. Fancy places are marketing fancy food as something typically served to the masses so that people will complain they paid an outrageous price for it.
This could be it's own thread.
Huge topic and super important. As a lot of it translates to just general hospitality.
The big picture answer is a good server makes the experience more enjoyable. Not just from ordering and bringing you the food. They add where they're needed like in helping with a menu item and they know when to leave you alone. It's an art.
Granted, the better ones are usually at more expensive restaurants where they make more money. But a great example was in Las Vegas last week. We had a great server at Best Friend that had been there since they opened. Was helpful in describing the history of the place and how some of the dishes were made. Then talked about the BBQ sauce line Roy Choi is coming out with and that he's going to have a line of edibles. Added to the experience.
Next night was a much fancier setup at Joe's Stone Crab. She had also been there since they opened and helped us order a little bit off the menu and got what we were looking for. Super helpful.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
I always feel like that Joe's Stone Crab has fantastic service. I bet the crab prices are a lot higher since the last time I was there though 
Setting The Table by Danny Meyer is a classic on hospitality. Goes into business philosophy in general on hospitality. Great book. https://www.amazon.com/Setting-Tabl...he+table+by+danny+meyer&qid=1708273834&sr=8-1
I always feel like that Joe's Stone Crab has fantastic service. I bet the crab prices are a lot higher since the last time I was there though
Was there a few years ago and my wife ordered and the guy scrunched his face a bit and "Not tonight". Steered us to what was better. A good server is the conduit to the kitchen and can guide.
With that said, it's not just high end places. Best Friend is not a high end place. And the server helped a ton.
And as I said earlier, even counter service they add to the experience. They're human. They're never "pointless" in my opinion.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I know in Florida you can't even get stone crab in the summer or fall, only in the winter and spring. Am I wrong about that? If yes, please enlighten me and let me know where.I always feel like that Joe's Stone Crab has fantastic service. I bet the crab prices are a lot higher since the last time I was there though
FarFromHome
Footballguy
The "experience" of fine dining is the focal point for a good server. The helpful characteristics of a good server is so much more then taking your order and bringing your food. The goal is to make you feel like they personally want u to be there and that they want nothing more then to provide you a positive experience. I knew nothing of this until I spent a decade living in Hawaii and moving up the ladder of a premier resort. A fine dining restaurant has a brand. A brand they need to broadcast. A good server is an ambassador of that brand.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
I would add don’t hang out in the servers area on your phone while my glass is empty
Ilov80s
Footballguy
For sure though I usually find that's a symptom of a poorly run establishment and even more, a place where the servers aren't making much money.
On the counter-service idea, I think one of the significant reasons In-N-Out and Chick-Fil-A are so successful is they consistently have excellent counter-service interactions. And yes, they both get mocked and I'm sure this will draw "my pleasure" but the reality is they both clearly strive to deliver a great experience for the customer.
Which back to the original point of the thread, when even fast food feels expensive, that's more important than ever.
Which back to the original point of the thread, when even fast food feels expensive, that's more important than ever.
Instinctive
Footballguy
Well Chik Fil A does a great job when theyre open. Nothing like hour 34 of labor and delivery and can't eat at the chik fil a in the hospital because it's a Sunday...
I half joke. But yeah I totally agree with this. Excellent service is a huge differentiator. It's part of why Whataburger has gone so downhill in the past few years. Not only does the food seem cheaper and possibly smaller, but the service is WAY worse.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
You're on the right track here.
McDonald's stock is up 60% over that period. Their net profit was $8.3B this quarter. It was $5B the same quarter 5 years ago.
So it's not just like they're raising prices to cover the changes in cost. Their net profit is skyrocketing. "We are just raising our prices to cover rising costs" is a lie. The numbers are public, we can see it plain and simple. Yes costs have gone up, but prices have gone up by way more than cost increases, way more than wage increases. Prices are up because people are willing to pay them, so they have no reason to stop raising them. It's that simple.
Until the American consumer stops buying everything in sight no matter how much it costs, it won't correct. But right now we're in this cycle where everyone goes on Facebook and complains about how they can't afford anything, and then they turn around and buy a jetski and book a ski trip and stop for a $11 sausage biscuit + coffee every morning.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Yeah, I don’t want to hear anyone on TikTok complaining about being broke recording from a car less than 3 years old with a Starbucks coffee in the cupholder.
Doug B
Footballguy
Agree with your post overall except that I disagree that “everyone” is reacting the same way. Some consumers have changed and are changing their habits in response to higher prices.
Whether there’s yet a critical mass of such habit-changing consumers to effect change is a different matter. Just how inelastic is demand for fast food? Starbucks? Casual dining? Fine dining? Maybe we’ll see sooner or later.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Of course it’s not everyone but the line at the Starbucks down the road is still 15 cars deep at all times. Anecdotal I know but that place is my canary and it’s still alive.
belljr
Footballguy
Yep.... Then I laugh when I go inside to get my preorder and only one car has moved!!!
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Who are these people?
I'm sure they are out there, but it's empirical, right? These are public companies. Restaurants sales and profits are up. Travel spending in every category is up (by a lot!!). Apple sales are up. Facebook advertising spend is up (and people sure as heck aren't advertising for essentials on Facebook). Sales of random garbage on Amazon are up. Netflix subs are up (even as price continues to rise). Concert sales are up. Almost every company is selling more stuff every quarter, at higher prices than last quarter. And I'm talking about non-essentials here.
Anecdotally, it more than jives here.
A ticket at my local ski resort was $80 five years ago and you could park 20 yards from the lodge and ski onto every lift all day without waiting in a single line. Now a lift ticket is $260 and you have to park 3 miles away and take a shuttle in because all of the parking lots are full, and some of the lift lines are literally a quarter mile long at times. The price has gone up 4x and the visitorship has gone up 20x.
The Netflix CEO bought Powder Mountain and doubled the ticket prices essentially overnight ($129 to $250) and they haven't lost out on one single solitary visitor for it. Numbers just keep going up, tickets are actually sold out there today.
Last summer the line for people to put their boats in the lake was out of the marina parking lot and then another mile down the road. A few years ago it was never more than 2 cars deep. Apparently everyone bought a boat recently.
Restaurant waits here for some bland middle of the road place like Olive Garden are 90-120 minutes on the weekend and 45-60 minutes on Wednesday night. It used to be 30 minutes on the weekend and 0 minutes on Wednesday.
Our local mall looks like it's 1990 again. It looked like a scene out of a post-apocalyptic zombie movie 10 years ago.
If some people are spending less, there are two people on the other side spending more for every one of them. It's nuts out there right now. Places just can't charge enough to keep the crowds away. Has anyone bowled lately? Holy hell when did an hour of bowling for a family of 4 where you can't even finish two games hit triple digits? And why are all the lanes full at those prices?
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FairWarning
Footballguy
At my place, we rotate drinks pretty regularly, especially the craft beers. A couple of our waitresses came from breakfast places, so they don’t really know what a IPA is vs a Hazy IPA, or how to enter a specific martini. I don’t think it’s the money part, it’s just not something they have done before. I do try to give a little cheat sheet so they know how to ask the customer the specifics of their martini (people will send them back). Heck, I don’t know all the wines, but if I find out what it’s similar to, then I can answer questions about it.
massraider
Footballguy
Some of those people have TWO cup holders.
This is why they cannot afford homes.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
And they also have to endure the higher price for cup holders that can hold their pink Stanley cups.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
I’ve been in this camp for a while, but I’ve also been taking note of bowling alleys and even lower end malls having completely packed parking lots.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Oh I was just referring to the part about servers standing around on their phones while customers aren’t getting service. Sounds like you are doing a good job educating the servers and trying to put them in positions to be successful.
Stoneworker
Footballguy
Those net profit figures are corporate numbers....however 95% of McDonald's U.S. locations are franchises.
Do you have access to each franchisee's individual net profit figures also? Because that's who sets the menu prices and pays the wages.
Not to mention 54% of McDonald's total corporate revenues are international.
So attempting to draw a straight line between corporate-level net profit in a franchise-based business model...and some bizarre U.S. price/wage narrative...where only 5% of stores are company-owned and only 46% of revenue comes from the U.S....is non-sensical, at best.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Malls are dead. Went into what used to be a crowded one and stopped at Olgas to eat. One waitress was the hostess, server and she said she helps in the kitchen. Only people in the mall were walkers who walked by me 10 times while I waited 30 minutes for my sandwich.
Drunken knight
Footballguy
4 of us just dined at a nice Italian restaurant in phx.
Focaccia
Tagliatelle with short rib
Burrata gnocchi
Macaroni with bolognese
Panazanella
Glass of super Tuscan
Glass of Prosecco
Tiramisu
Lemoncello semifredo
$160 pre tip… value/quality was there.
Focaccia
Tagliatelle with short rib
Burrata gnocchi
Macaroni with bolognese
Panazanella
Glass of super Tuscan
Glass of Prosecco
Tiramisu
Lemoncello semifredo
$160 pre tip… value/quality was there.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
That's a good value. I would have put at $200 at least in most Detroit spots and we are generally a good value relative to places like Chicago, NY, LA
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Stoneworker
Footballguy
Limited service restaurant (aka "fast food) menu prices increased approx. 6% in 2023 and 8% in 2022, according to the National Restaurant Assoc.
McDonald's hiked their menu prices company-wide approx. 10% in both 2022 and 2023, according to widely quoted public statements.
So McDonald's has been above average for the category the past two years (assuming 10% is for U.S.), but not nearly the cataclysmic "corporate greed" scenario that some in here would have us believe.
McDonald's hiked their menu prices company-wide approx. 10% in both 2022 and 2023, according to widely quoted public statements.
So McDonald's has been above average for the category the past two years (assuming 10% is for U.S.), but not nearly the cataclysmic "corporate greed" scenario that some in here would have us believe.
Drunken knight
Footballguy
Could have been worse.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Than IHOP?
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Yeah I mean obviously you can make that much cheaper at home but it is more than just the ingredients. It's the service, no dishes to do, maybe making your kid feel special, etc. One thing I like about eating out vs spending money some other ways is that the money hits a lot of local people. I would rather spend $100 out to eat than at Amazon.
Drunken knight
Footballguy
Easy to spend more than $30 for two on breakfast. In general, breakfast out is a terrible value
Also, yes, quality can be worse than ihop
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Why do you think people have upped their consumption? Post-covid reset of priorities?
Just skied a few days at Park City, which was overrun on the weekend, better mid-week. Going to Vail tomorrow, so I’ll see how they look post Presidents’ Day weekend.
Bummer to hear Powder Mountain is busy, too. Was thinking of going there next season, and figured it would be less packed without inclusion on the Epic/IKON passes.
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DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
Alta/snowbird were empty midweek. I waited in one line, one time, at the bottom, on the big powder day.
Chemical X
Footballguy
where do you live? that seems high. ihop has an over 55 menu and i generally thought items were under $10. but, i’ve been there 2x in the last 25 years.
