Rivers or Leinart... who would you bet on? (1 Viewer)

[montanagold]

Looking at potential waivers and or QBs available to some of us in our leagues that drafted players like Warner, Culpepper...

I like players like Rivers, Leinart, and Gradkowski... I'm curious to know opinons about what some of you predict career wise for these guys this year and beyond? I do think Gradkowski will surprise people. His college career was nothing short of impressive.

Currently I rank: Rivers, Leinart, Gradkowski... for this year.

That being said... who do you think gets their wings and just continues to rise to eliteness?

MG

 

[Blackjacks]

I would definetly say Leinart due to better skill players on his team and his offensive approach. As long as Marty in SD and Denny is Arizona, Leinart will be the better choice. While saying this I love the way Rivers plays and if ever given the chance to run a offense that asked more of him he would skyrocket up on my charts. The kid is just a ball player.

 

[Borat]

"Eliteness"

I'm going with Rivers. I think he has better weapons offensively (I'm taking LT, Gates, and anyone else's o-line over Fitzgerald, Boldin, and the Cards o-line), and until proven otherwise, I think the Cardinals are an inept organization incapable of becoming serious Super Bowl contenders.

 

[-OZ-]

The Mannings said the same about San Diego a couple years back.

The OLine makes a huge difference, but I'm taking the leap of faith and assuming Arizona addresses this need soon.

Next couple years = Rivers.

Career = Leinart.

 

[Mr. Yuk]

"Eliteness" I'm going with Rivers. I think he has better weapons offensively (I'm taking LT, Gates, and anyone else's o-line over Fitzgerald, Boldin, and the Cards o-line), and until proven otherwise, I think the Cardinals are an inept organization incapable of becoming serious Super Bowl contenders.

Yes but you don't have to be a Super Bowl contender to put up big fantasy stats. The title says who will have the better fantasy career, and I believe that will be Leinart. But I think Rivers will have more NFL success as a caretaker/game manager type QB, not a throw 30 times a game/gunslinger type QB. The one example that popped into my mind is Troy Aikman, never put up huge fantasy stats but obviously had plenty of NFL success.

 

[BoltBacker]

"... best FANTASY career"

You have to go Leinart if you're talking about fantasy. He's got all the tools(except the OL that will put them in 2nd/3rd and long anyway). When's the last time you remember Green building an elite defense? His career should be full of shootouts. Leinart by a landslide but just remember if you're talking about fantasy performence then Aaron Brooks probably averaged more fantasy production than Troy Aikman.

This isn't a slam on Leinart by the way, just trying to point out he's in the perfect situation to put up meaningless passing statistics especially when contrasted by the situation Rivers is in.

 

[Tau837]

Rivers, hands down. Short term, he has a better team around him and better training due to his two years watching. Long term, he is more talented.

 

[BoltBacker]

The one example that popped into my mind is Troy Aikman, never put up huge fantasy stats but obviously had plenty of NFL success.

Meh, nevermind you beat me to it.

 

[TitusIII]

Leinart has two all-world WR's at his disposal. He will put up monster stats in his prime, assuming both WR's stick around and he develops into a solid QB.

 

[BoltBacker]

Rivers could end up the better QB, but Leinart has two all-world WR's at his disposal.

... and the poor defense is almost as important as the WR's imo. Kitna is a fantasy stud at QB for no other reason than DET can't stop anybody on defense so they never run the ball. The entire DET TEAM averages only 17 rushes a game!

 

[tommyGunZ]

Kitna is a fantasy stud at QB

huh?

 

[BoltBacker]

Kitna is a fantasy stud at QB

huh?

All right, all right. A bit of an overstatement but he was the #7 QB going into last week in my main league. Jon Kitno is NOT the 7th best QB in the league. Or the 17th. Maybe around the 27th.... but certainly not the 7th.My point is fantasy is not reality and fantasy stats are a very poor measuring stick to compare qb's.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Kitna is a fantasy stud at QB

huh?

All right, all right. A bit of an overstatement but he was the #7 QB going into last week in my main league. Jon Kitno is NOT the 7th best QB in the league. Or the 17th. Maybe around the 27th.... but certainly not the 7th.My point is fantasy is not reality and fantasy stats are a very poor measuring stick to compare qb's.

I agree with your point.

 

[Otis]

Leinart will have the better NFL and fantasy career.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Their skill sets and size are virtually identical. Leinart played in bigger games as a collegian, but Rivers was instrumental in turning the entire program around and put up better stats with far less talent against better competition.

As ridiculous as it sounds, I'd lean toward Rivers b/c he's a married family man with 2-3 kids and is totally focused on football, a la Peyton. Leinart seems like a party guy whose focus could come into question in future years.

I like'm both. A lot.

 

[montanagold]

Well... SD is starting to put off that Pittsburgh / Chicago vibe to me... what that means for the offense; I don't know? But... if any of those young guys step up.... then the offense could open up some.

I definantly see Leinart having to throw throw and throw. I think the same about Gradkowski... he has great weapons. His completion percentage in college was unworldly.... and he had a very nice first game.

MG

 

[LHUCKS]

Leinart will have the better NFL and fantasy career.

 

[Bob_Magaw]

Their skill sets and size are virtually identical. Leinart played in bigger games as a collegian, but Rivers was instrumental in turning the entire program around and put up better stats with far less talent against better competition.As ridiculous as it sounds, I'd lean toward Rivers b/c he's a married family man with 2-3 kids and is totally focused on football, a la Peyton. Leinart seems like a party guy whose focus could come into question in future years.I like'm both. A lot.

if john belushi was throwing to fitzgerald & boldin... i'd take belushi over rivers...TOGA, TOGA, TOGA!!!

 

[BlueOnion]

I would go with Lienert. As I try to think of one example of a quarterback doing poorly in a Denny Green offense, I find none. What I do find is a long list of fantasy studs from average to poor NFL quarterbacks; Sean Salisbury, Brad Johnson, Randall Cunningham, Jeff George, Jay Fiedler.

Lienart is the safer pick and the pick with more upside.

 

[Tau837]

The question is who will have a better career.

Many of the reasons being cited are short term, not career-oriented. Unless you assume that Leinart will always have Boldin and Fitzgerald and Denny Green.

I also think some are talking NFL and others are talking fantasy.

As usual, Rivers will be overlooked here, just as he always has been around here. From an NFL perspective, he is better than Leinart, and will prove that over the course of their careers. From a fantasy perspective, it is harder to gauge, since that is more situational... but I think he'll be better than Leinart there as well over the course of their careers.

 

[LHUCKS]

From an NFL perspective, he is better than Leinart, and will prove that over the course of their careers.

Leinart looks better right now in many aspects of the game and he didn't have the benefit of warming the bench for two years.

 

[jonessed]

From an NFL perspective, he is better than Leinart, and will prove that over the course of their careers.

Leinart looks better right now in many aspects of the game and he didn't have the benefit of warming the bench for two years.

Which aspects are you referring to?

 

[LHUCKS]

From an NFL perspective, he is better than Leinart, and will prove that over the course of their careers.

Leinart looks better right now in many aspects of the game and he didn't have the benefit of warming the bench for two years.

Which aspects are you referring to?

EscapabilityRushingTouch on Passesfor starters

 

[jonessed]

From an NFL perspective, he is better than Leinart, and will prove that over the course of their careers.

Leinart looks better right now in many aspects of the game and he didn't have the benefit of warming the bench for two years.

Which aspects are you referring to?

EscapabilityRushingTouch on Passesfor starters

Leinart has a grand total of 2 rushes for -3 yards yet somehow you have gleaned from this that he is a better rusher?

 

[LHUCKS]

From an NFL perspective, he is better than Leinart, and will prove that over the course of their careers.

Leinart looks better right now in many aspects of the game and he didn't have the benefit of warming the bench for two years.

Which aspects are you referring to?

EscapabilityRushingTouch on Passesfor starters

Leinart has a grand total of 2 rushes for -3 yards yet somehow you have gleaned from this that he is a better rusher?

Yep.

 

[jonessed]

From an NFL perspective, he is better than Leinart, and will prove that over the course of their careers.

Leinart looks better right now in many aspects of the game and he didn't have the benefit of warming the bench for two years.

Which aspects are you referring to?

EscapabilityRushingTouch on Passesfor starters

Leinart has a grand total of 2 rushes for -3 yards yet somehow you have gleaned from this that he is a better rusher?

Yep.

 

[LHUCKS]

From an NFL perspective, he is better than Leinart, and will prove that over the course of their careers.

Leinart looks better right now in many aspects of the game and he didn't have the benefit of warming the bench for two years.

Which aspects are you referring to?

EscapabilityRushingTouch on Passesfor starters

Leinart has a grand total of 2 rushes for -3 yards yet somehow you have gleaned from this that he is a better rusher?

Yep.

The difference between you and I(probably) is that I watch everything, and you only watch regular season football...at least that's what your argument above implies.

 

[-OZ-]

From an NFL perspective, he is better than Leinart, and will prove that over the course of their careers.

Leinart looks better right now in many aspects of the game and he didn't have the benefit of warming the bench for two years.

Which aspects are you referring to?

EscapabilityRushingTouch on Passesfor starters

Leinart has a grand total of 2 rushes for -3 yards yet somehow you have gleaned from this that he is a better rusher?

What LHUCKS means is "Leinart is from the PAC-10, therefore will dominate". You know, like Kyle Boller, Joey Harrington, Akili Smith...

 

[LHUCKS]

From an NFL perspective, he is better than Leinart, and will prove that over the course of their careers.

Leinart looks better right now in many aspects of the game and he didn't have the benefit of warming the bench for two years.

Which aspects are you referring to?

EscapabilityRushingTouch on Passesfor starters

Leinart has a grand total of 2 rushes for -3 yards yet somehow you have gleaned from this that he is a better rusher?

What LHUCKS means is "Leinart is from the PAC-10, therefore will dominate". You know, like Kyle Boller, Joey Harrington, Akili Smith...

Or the last two QB to be inducted into the Hall of Fame.

 

[jonessed]

From an NFL perspective, he is better than Leinart, and will prove that over the course of their careers.

Leinart looks better right now in many aspects of the game and he didn't have the benefit of warming the bench for two years.

Which aspects are you referring to?

EscapabilityRushing

Touch on Passes

for starters

Leinart has a grand total of 2 rushes for -3 yards yet somehow you have gleaned from this that he is a better rusher?

Yep.

The difference between you and I(probably) is that I watch everything, and you only watch regular season football...at least that's what your argument above implies.

You said right now and brought in Rivers two years experience in the NFL. Yet you claim your conclusion is now based solely off of college numbers where he has 132 rushes for -70 yards?

 

[LHUCKS]

From an NFL perspective, he is better than Leinart, and will prove that over the course of their careers.

Leinart looks better right now in many aspects of the game and he didn't have the benefit of warming the bench for two years.

Which aspects are you referring to?

EscapabilityRushing

Touch on Passes

for starters

Leinart has a grand total of 2 rushes for -3 yards yet somehow you have gleaned from this that he is a better rusher?

Yep.

The difference between you and I(probably) is that I watch everything, and you only watch regular season football...at least that's what your argument above implies.

You said right now and brought in Rivers two years experience in the NFL. Yet you claim your conclusion is now based solely off of college numbers where he has 132 rushes for -70 yards?

My conclusion is based on what I have seen from both in the pro game...although it is painfully obvious even from college that Leinart is a better athlete.

 

[Spartans346]

I have both QB's on my dynasty team. So I guess I am set at that position for at least 10 years.

 

[montanagold]

Anyone know how their combine / personal workouts for the NFL compaired? I think this is exciting... because, I believe these guys are definantly the future showstoppers in the NFL.

Great thread... I'm enjoying you alls perspectives!

MG

 

[Bri]

I'm a big Dennis Green fan for FF. For his coaching career, his players oftenn=gold for me. For NFL, that equates to offense and oh by the way we do play defense.

Marty can't win in the playoffs but he'll build ya a real solid team. His teams seem more about rushing than passing as I don't recall too many great WRs or TEs for him.

In the NFL, you can almost never be sure a coach will last with one team but going on that; I'd guess Leinart winds up being better in yardage and TDs and Rivers wins more and has better TD to INT ratio.

 

[GDogg]

From an NFL perspective, he is better than Leinart, and will prove that over the course of their careers.

Leinart looks better right now in many aspects of the game and he didn't have the benefit of warming the bench for two years.

Which aspects are you referring to?

EscapabilityRushing

Touch on Passes

for starters

I agree with a lot of your takes, but this is ridiculous.
Escapability/Rushing

Leinart was more or less a statue in college and he struggled most when teams put pressure on him. When you are comparing him to Warner, though, he looks like Michael Vick.

His career college rushing statistics: -62, -44, and 36 yards rushing and 9 TD's in his 3 seasons as a starter at SC.

His NFL career rushing statistics: -3 yards, 0 First Downs and 1 fumble lost.

The book on Rivers has been that he isn't fast, but has the quickness and elusiveness to escape the pass rush and get yardage. Did you see his scramble on Sunday night for the first down (and the sweet First Down signal he did)? Rivers has much greater escapability than Leinart and rushes better.

His career college rushing statistics at N.C. State: -85, -26, 110, and 109 yards rushing and 17 TD's in his 4 seasons as a starter at N.C. State.

His NFL career rushing statistics: 30 yards rushing, 2 First Downs and 0 fumbles lost.

In what measurable way is Leinart a better runner than Rivers with more escapability?

Touch on Passes

Both Leinart and Rivers are known for having great touch on passes. What seperates the two is that Rivers is also known for having a very strong arm while Leinart is known for having an average to weak arm.

Rivers is a better QB in all aspects of the game, and it really isn't even close.

 

[Gold Plated Nails]

Lhucks, why havent you commented in your Rivers hate thread lately? LOL

 

[BoltBacker]

From an NFL perspective, he is better than Leinart, and will prove that over the course of their careers.

Leinart looks better right now in many aspects of the game and he didn't have the benefit of warming the bench for two years.

Which aspects are you referring to?

EscapabilityRushingTouch on Passesfor starters

Leinart has a grand total of 2 rushes for -3 yards yet somehow you have gleaned from this that he is a better rusher?

Yep.

The difference between you and I(probably) is that I watch everything, and you only watch regular season football...at least that's what your argument above implies.

If watching everything is what led you to believe Chris Simms is better than Philip Rivers like you said before the season..... I'd suggest you keep watching. You may be watching everything but you aren't watching nearly enough.

 

[Tau837]

From an NFL perspective, he is better than Leinart, and will prove that over the course of their careers.

Leinart looks better right now in many aspects of the game and he didn't have the benefit of warming the bench for two years.

Which aspects are you referring to?

EscapabilityRushingTouch on Passesfor starters

Leinart has a grand total of 2 rushes for -3 yards yet somehow you have gleaned from this that he is a better rusher?

Yep.

The difference between you and I(probably) is that I watch everything, and you only watch regular season football...at least that's what your argument above implies.

If watching everything is what led you to believe Chris Simms is better than Philip Rivers like you said before the season..... I'd suggest you keep watching. You may be watching everything but you aren't watching nearly enough.

 

[LHUCKS]

From an NFL perspective, he is better than Leinart, and will prove that over the course of their careers.

Leinart looks better right now in many aspects of the game and he didn't have the benefit of warming the bench for two years.

Which aspects are you referring to?

EscapabilityRushingTouch on Passesfor starters

Leinart has a grand total of 2 rushes for -3 yards yet somehow you have gleaned from this that he is a better rusher?

Yep.

The difference between you and I(probably) is that I watch everything, and you only watch regular season football...at least that's what your argument above implies.

If watching everything is what led you to believe Chris Simms is better than Philip Rivers like you said before the season..... I'd suggest you keep watching. You may be watching everything but you aren't watching nearly enough.

The only ones getting owned around here are those that have invested heavily in Rivers.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

The book on Rivers has been that he isn't fast, but has the quickness and elusiveness to escape the pass rush and get yardage.

Rivers is a legit sub-4.3.
Yep. I have in mind several passes from this season on which Rivers showed very impressive touch. I can't think of a single pass he's thrown where the touch was anything to complain about. I doubt LHUCKS has any such pass in mind, either.

 

[BoltBacker]

From an NFL perspective, he is better than Leinart, and will prove that over the course of their careers.

Leinart looks better right now in many aspects of the game and he didn't have the benefit of warming the bench for two years.

Which aspects are you referring to?

Escapability

Rushing

Touch on Passes

for starters

Leinart has a grand total of 2 rushes for -3 yards yet somehow you have gleaned from this that he is a better rusher?

Yep.

The difference between you and I(probably) is that I watch everything, and you only watch regular season football...at least that's what your argument above implies.

If watching everything is what led you to believe Chris Simms is better than Philip Rivers like you said before the season..... I'd suggest you keep watching. You may be watching everything but you aren't watching nearly enough.

The only ones getting owned around here are those that have invested heavily in Rivers.

Rivers was ranked as the #22 QB before the season began(a ranking which you called into question as being TOO HIGH if I remember correctly) and you honestly think there are people that are "heavily invested" in Rivers? That's a late backup QB or even a 3rd QB in most leagues.

But let's assume any of that makes sense, in that case how would you describe the people that "invested heavily" in Chris Simms instead of Rivers as you suggested before the season began?

 

[BoltBacker]

Leinart will have the better NFL and fantasy career.

I'm not sure why you are starting an entire new thread on Rivers. This thread exposes a lot.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

As ridiculous as it sounds, I'd lean toward Rivers b/c he's a married family man with 2-3 kids and is totally focused on football, a la Peyton. Leinart seems like a party guy whose focus could come into question in future years.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

 

[Insein]

Leinart will have the better NFL and fantasy career.

Man this was like the double kiss of death.

 

[BassNBrew]

Leinart will have the better NFL and fantasy career.

Man this was like the double kiss of death.

 

[plymkr]

Now that I've read both threads, nice bump! lol 5 years later & still has the hate for a darn good QB! Probably because he's from the east coast., & not Pac 10 !

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I would definetly say Leinart due to better skill players on his team and his offensive approach. As long as Marty in SD and Denny is Arizona, Leinart will be the better choice. While saying this I love the way Rivers plays and if ever given the chance to run a offense that asked more of him he would skyrocket up on my charts. The kid is just a ball player.

I remember there was debate among fans back in 06 if the Saints should take Leinart if Bush was taken by the Texans (meanwhile the Saints staff was really thinking in terms of Romo or Brees). The Saints and Payton couldn't turn Joey Harrington into a good quarterback. But I think questions like what if Leinart had landed in San Diego and Rivers had been in AZ can be kind of interesting. Amazing how some players take off in certain situations and not as well in others. Could Sanchez make it somewhere else? Will he ever succeed anywhere? Who knows. Houston was about as good a situation as Leinart could have hoped for though, I suppose, and he was superceded by TJ Yates.

 

[Tau837]

The difference between you and I(probably) is that I watch everything, and you only watch regular season football...at least that's what your argument above implies.

If watching everything is what led you to believe Chris Simms is better than Philip Rivers like you said before the season..... I'd suggest you keep watching. You may be watching everything but you aren't watching nearly enough.

The only ones getting owned around here are those that have invested heavily in Rivers.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Leinart will have the better NFL and fantasy career.

Man this was like the double kiss of death.