Ryan Mathews & Mike Tolbert, RBs, San Diego Chargers (1 Viewer)

[Sigmund Bloom]

Best case scenario tonight for those targeting Mathews.

Gunz.....had tomlinson for years and followed the Chargers very closely so obviously got to know a lot of the Charger faithful on the board. Always respected you, JWB, MT and others and I'm a bit surprised to see you all sticking so tight to Matthews. Why would Norv be giving all these touches to a guy who they aren't going to use much? Not trying to be a jerk at all but trying to understand why I'm seeing something completely different than you guys are seeing?

Why would he give "all these touches" to Tolbert vs. Mathews?2010: Mathews had a high ankle sprain. He had 28 touches in less than 5 quarters last season before the injury.2011: It's one preseason game so far... when Mathews has been somewhat limited in practice... don't overreact.

They didnt realize what they had in Tolbert at the beginning of last year, so that 2010 argument isn't persuasive. As far as this year goes, either way it ain't good. Either its a somewhat representative sample and its full blown RBBC or Mathews already is missing touches/time that was intended for him b/c of injuries.

 

[Banger]

Best case scenario tonight for those targeting Mathews.

Gunz.....had tomlinson for years and followed the Chargers very closely so obviously got to know a lot of the Charger faithful on the board. Always respected you, JWB, MT and others and I'm a bit surprised to see you all sticking so tight to Matthews. Why would Norv be giving all these touches to a guy who they aren't going to use much? Not trying to be a jerk at all but trying to understand why I'm seeing something completely different than you guys are seeing?

Why would he give "all these touches" to Tolbert vs. Mathews?2010: Mathews had a high ankle sprain. He had 28 touches in less than 5 quarters last season before the injury.2011: It's one preseason game so far... when Mathews has been somewhat limited in practice... don't overreact.

I'm also listening to what Norv is saying and what he's doing. Do you think Matthews will be the workhorse? I just don't see it at this point. It's looking like a split to me from what has been said so far and what he's done in camp and in the game. I'm truly impartial and don't really care either way. Don't have a horse in the race, just objectively reading all the info and crafting my strategy. I realize that the insiders often have info that I may not have so I always listen a little more to guys like yourself.

 

[Tau837]

Best case scenario tonight for those targeting Mathews.

Gunz.....had tomlinson for years and followed the Chargers very closely so obviously got to know a lot of the Charger faithful on the board. Always respected you, JWB, MT and others and I'm a bit surprised to see you all sticking so tight to Matthews. Why would Norv be giving all these touches to a guy who they aren't going to use much? Not trying to be a jerk at all but trying to understand why I'm seeing something completely different than you guys are seeing?

Why would he give "all these touches" to Tolbert vs. Mathews?2010: Mathews had a high ankle sprain. He had 28 touches in less than 5 quarters last season before the injury.2011: It's one preseason game so far... when Mathews has been somewhat limited in practice... don't overreact.

They didnt realize what they had in Tolbert at the beginning of last year, so that 2010 argument isn't persuasive. As far as this year goes, either way it ain't good. Either its a somewhat representative sample and its full blown RBBC or Mathews already is missing touches/time that was intended for him b/c of injuries.

I agree about Tolbert. That's why I projected him for 178 touches. That said, I disagree that the 2010 argument isn't persuasive. Perhaps you aren't familiar with high ankle sprains. And the split of touches in preseason game 1 is about as irrelevant as it gets.

 

[Tau837]

Best case scenario tonight for those targeting Mathews.

Gunz.....had tomlinson for years and followed the Chargers very closely so obviously got to know a lot of the Charger faithful on the board. Always respected you, JWB, MT and others and I'm a bit surprised to see you all sticking so tight to Matthews. Why would Norv be giving all these touches to a guy who they aren't going to use much? Not trying to be a jerk at all but trying to understand why I'm seeing something completely different than you guys are seeing?

Why would he give "all these touches" to Tolbert vs. Mathews?2010: Mathews had a high ankle sprain. He had 28 touches in less than 5 quarters last season before the injury.2011: It's one preseason game so far... when Mathews has been somewhat limited in practice... don't overreact.

I'm also listening to what Norv is saying and what he's doing. Do you think Matthews will be the workhorse? I just don't see it at this point. It's looking like a split to me from what has been said so far and what he's done in camp and in the game. I'm truly impartial and don't really care either way. Don't have a horse in the race, just objectively reading all the info and crafting my strategy. I realize that the insiders often have info that I may not have so I always listen a little more to guys like yourself.

I don't claim to be an insider, and I don't have inside info. I'm just a fan expressing my opinions.That said, my opinion is expressed earlier in this thread in a long post... 288 touches for Mathews and 178 touches for Tolbert. I am fully aware that this is against the grain, and I'm fine with that. I certainly may be wrong. We'll see.By the way, I traded Roddy White for Mathews straight up in one of my dynasty leagues based on my expectations, so I put my money where my mouth is. (And, yes, I've gotten plenty of flak about it.)

 

[Banger]

Best case scenario tonight for those targeting Mathews.

Gunz.....had tomlinson for years and followed the Chargers very closely so obviously got to know a lot of the Charger faithful on the board. Always respected you, JWB, MT and others and I'm a bit surprised to see you all sticking so tight to Matthews. Why would Norv be giving all these touches to a guy who they aren't going to use much? Not trying to be a jerk at all but trying to understand why I'm seeing something completely different than you guys are seeing?

Why would he give "all these touches" to Tolbert vs. Mathews?2010: Mathews had a high ankle sprain. He had 28 touches in less than 5 quarters last season before the injury.2011: It's one preseason game so far... when Mathews has been somewhat limited in practice... don't overreact.

I'm also listening to what Norv is saying and what he's doing. Do you think Matthews will be the workhorse? I just don't see it at this point. It's looking like a split to me from what has been said so far and what he's done in camp and in the game. I'm truly impartial and don't really care either way. Don't have a horse in the race, just objectively reading all the info and crafting my strategy. I realize that the insiders often have info that I may not have so I always listen a little more to guys like yourself.

I don't claim to be an insider, and I don't have inside info. I'm just a fan expressing my opinions.That said, my opinion is expressed earlier in this thread in a long post... 288 touches for Mathews and 178 touches for Tolbert. I am fully aware that this is against the grain, and I'm fine with that. I certainly may be wrong. We'll see.By the way, I traded Roddy White for Mathews straight up in one of my dynasty leagues based on my expectations, so I put my money where my mouth is. (And, yes, I've gotten plenty of flak about it.)

thanks bud. curious to see how this shakes out....

 

[tommyGunZ]

Best case scenario tonight for those targeting Mathews.

Gunz.....had tomlinson for years and followed the Chargers very closely so obviously got to know a lot of the Charger faithful on the board. Always respected you, JWB, MT and others and I'm a bit surprised to see you all sticking so tight to Matthews. Why would Norv be giving all these touches to a guy who they aren't going to use much? Not trying to be a jerk at all but trying to understand why I'm seeing something completely different than you guys are seeing?

What's up Banger? Tolbert has fantastic hands and is very agile for his size. In a pinch he can carry the load but we're talking about a 5'9, 240 lb fullback from Coastal Carolina who wasn't even drafted. How many of those guys are the guy on a legit Super Bowl contender? Conversely, Mathews is the very definition of a prototypical RB. Despite the headaches he caused fantasy owners last year, Mathews was very productive when he was healthy and on the field. The uproar over his condition entering camp is way overblown - Norv was on local radio last week and said Mathews' conditioning wasn't an issue at all. Anything can happen. Tolbert could go bezerk in the first couple of games with his touches and force this into a RBBC situation. Maybe Mathews gets dinged again and misses games. But every local mailbag, radio interview, etc. I've read/heard from the day the Bolts traded up in the draft through today has been the same: Mathews is going to be the feature guy. It may not be perceived that way nationally or on fantasy message boards, but everyone in the Chargers franchise expects Mathews to win the job and run with it.

Full disclosure: I'm a homer and Mathews' extremely high ceiling is certainly more intoxicating than Tolbert's "better than you think" production. But in fairness, I think the Bolts organization sees it the same way, and Mathews is going to get every opportunity and benefit of the doubt to be the feature.

 

[Mr Rodgers neighborhood]

Tolbert started and got the first two series tonight, then he replaced Mathews inside the 10 on Mathews series, scoring the TD on the drive...

I'm not sure that means much as Mathews wasn't even going to play.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

What I would say is that it may not even be arguable that SD was the single most disappointing team in the NFL last season. With the talent they have, to finish 9-7 and out of the playoffs was ridiculous. It should have left a bad taste in SD Chargers mouth. Yet Matthews comes into camp 'unprepared'.IMO, NT almost by necessity can't make Matthews his bellcow or he risks losing his team or at least having it underperform significantly again. I don't know what Matthews has proven at the NFL level other than he can rip apart a Broncos defense.Matthews averaged a 20 yard run every 39.5 carriesTolbert averaged a 20 yard run every 25.9 carriesMaybe the axiom is true that when the bullets are flying, coaches lean on their studs. I don't know what evidence you have other than he was the 12th overall selection in the draft in 2010 to suggest Matthews fits in this category.

Granted, coming to camp out of shape is a bad omen. This could be indicative of a poor work ethic and/or it could be the precursor to more injuries. This is the only thing that concerns me right now.If you want to just look at frequencies of an arbitrary distance while one player was dealing with a high ankle sprain most of the year, that's your call. Not a very good call in my opinion, but if you are looking for a reason to avoid Mathews then I guess a stat as weak as that one will work. If Mathews can net a higher ypc than Tolbert while suffering through a debilitating injury last season then I like his chances to shine if he can stay healthy this season.

back earlier in this thread it was said that he didn't come in out of shape, he came in in 'incorrect shape'. Ie. he had been working out the wrong muscles, so they had to change his regimen. This has more to do with rating intelligence than work ethic.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Best case scenario tonight for those targeting Mathews.

Gunz.....had tomlinson for years and followed the Chargers very closely so obviously got to know a lot of the Charger faithful on the board. Always respected you, JWB, MT and others and I'm a bit surprised to see you all sticking so tight to Matthews. Why would Norv be giving all these touches to a guy who they aren't going to use much? Not trying to be a jerk at all but trying to understand why I'm seeing something completely different than you guys are seeing?

What's up Banger? Tolbert has fantastic hands and is very agile for his size. In a pinch he can carry the load but we're talking about a 5'9, 240 lb fullback from Coastal Carolina who wasn't even drafted. How many of those guys are the guy on a legit Super Bowl contender? Conversely, Mathews is the very definition of a prototypical RB. Despite the headaches he caused fantasy owners last year, Mathews was very productive when he was healthy and on the field. The uproar over his condition entering camp is way overblown - Norv was on local radio last week and said Mathews' conditioning wasn't an issue at all. Anything can happen. Tolbert could go bezerk in the first couple of games with his touches and force this into a RBBC situation. Maybe Mathews gets dinged again and misses games. But every local mailbag, radio interview, etc. I've read/heard from the day the Bolts traded up in the draft through today has been the same: Mathews is going to be the feature guy. It may not be perceived that way nationally or on fantasy message boards, but everyone in the Chargers franchise expects Mathews to win the job and run with it.

Full disclosure: I'm a homer and Mathews' extremely high ceiling is certainly more intoxicating than Tolbert's "better than you think" production. But in fairness, I think the Bolts organization sees it the same way, and Mathews is going to get every opportunity and benefit of the doubt to be the feature.

who's a better blocker?

 

[tommyGunZ]

Best case scenario tonight for those targeting Mathews.

Gunz.....had tomlinson for years and followed the Chargers very closely so obviously got to know a lot of the Charger faithful on the board. Always respected you, JWB, MT and others and I'm a bit surprised to see you all sticking so tight to Matthews. Why would Norv be giving all these touches to a guy who they aren't going to use much? Not trying to be a jerk at all but trying to understand why I'm seeing something completely different than you guys are seeing?

What's up Banger? Tolbert has fantastic hands and is very agile for his size. In a pinch he can carry the load but we're talking about a 5'9, 240 lb fullback from Coastal Carolina who wasn't even drafted. How many of those guys are the guy on a legit Super Bowl contender? Conversely, Mathews is the very definition of a prototypical RB. Despite the headaches he caused fantasy owners last year, Mathews was very productive when he was healthy and on the field. The uproar over his condition entering camp is way overblown - Norv was on local radio last week and said Mathews' conditioning wasn't an issue at all. Anything can happen. Tolbert could go bezerk in the first couple of games with his touches and force this into a RBBC situation. Maybe Mathews gets dinged again and misses games. But every local mailbag, radio interview, etc. I've read/heard from the day the Bolts traded up in the draft through today has been the same: Mathews is going to be the feature guy. It may not be perceived that way nationally or on fantasy message boards, but everyone in the Chargers franchise expects Mathews to win the job and run with it.

Full disclosure: I'm a homer and Mathews' extremely high ceiling is certainly more intoxicating than Tolbert's "better than you think" production. But in fairness, I think the Bolts organization sees it the same way, and Mathews is going to get every opportunity and benefit of the doubt to be the feature.

who's a better blocker?

Tolbert.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Best case scenario tonight for those targeting Mathews.

Gunz.....had tomlinson for years and followed the Chargers very closely so obviously got to know a lot of the Charger faithful on the board. Always respected you, JWB, MT and others and I'm a bit surprised to see you all sticking so tight to Matthews. Why would Norv be giving all these touches to a guy who they aren't going to use much? Not trying to be a jerk at all but trying to understand why I'm seeing something completely different than you guys are seeing?

What's up Banger? Tolbert has fantastic hands and is very agile for his size. In a pinch he can carry the load but we're talking about a 5'9, 240 lb fullback from Coastal Carolina who wasn't even drafted. How many of those guys are the guy on a legit Super Bowl contender? Conversely, Mathews is the very definition of a prototypical RB. Despite the headaches he caused fantasy owners last year, Mathews was very productive when he was healthy and on the field. The uproar over his condition entering camp is way overblown - Norv was on local radio last week and said Mathews' conditioning wasn't an issue at all. Anything can happen. Tolbert could go bezerk in the first couple of games with his touches and force this into a RBBC situation. Maybe Mathews gets dinged again and misses games. But every local mailbag, radio interview, etc. I've read/heard from the day the Bolts traded up in the draft through today has been the same: Mathews is going to be the feature guy. It may not be perceived that way nationally or on fantasy message boards, but everyone in the Chargers franchise expects Mathews to win the job and run with it.

Full disclosure: I'm a homer and Mathews' extremely high ceiling is certainly more intoxicating than Tolbert's "better than you think" production. But in fairness, I think the Bolts organization sees it the same way, and Mathews is going to get every opportunity and benefit of the doubt to be the feature.

who's a better blocker?

Tolbert.

This leads me to think more tolbert, as the bolts only go as far as rivers takes them, and if you don't lose too much from having tollbert back there

 

[LargeMouthBass]

Best case scenario tonight for those targeting Mathews.

Gunz.....had tomlinson for years and followed the Chargers very closely so obviously got to know a lot of the Charger faithful on the board. Always respected you, JWB, MT and others and I'm a bit surprised to see you all sticking so tight to Matthews. Why would Norv be giving all these touches to a guy who they aren't going to use much? Not trying to be a jerk at all but trying to understand why I'm seeing something completely different than you guys are seeing?

Preseason doesn't mean doodoo... But who knows, maybe Norv thinks Matthews is injury prone and he likes to use bowling ball for meaningless downs.

 

[Sabertooth]

I think I'm going to undrink the Mathews Kool-Aid. Tolbert might be a nice guy in the final round of the draft though.

 

[Banger]

Best case scenario tonight for those targeting Mathews.

Gunz.....had tomlinson for years and followed the Chargers very closely so obviously got to know a lot of the Charger faithful on the board. Always respected you, JWB, MT and others and I'm a bit surprised to see you all sticking so tight to Matthews. Why would Norv be giving all these touches to a guy who they aren't going to use much? Not trying to be a jerk at all but trying to understand why I'm seeing something completely different than you guys are seeing?

What's up Banger? Tolbert has fantastic hands and is very agile for his size. In a pinch he can carry the load but we're talking about a 5'9, 240 lb fullback from Coastal Carolina who wasn't even drafted. How many of those guys are the guy on a legit Super Bowl contender? Conversely, Mathews is the very definition of a prototypical RB. Despite the headaches he caused fantasy owners last year, Mathews was very productive when he was healthy and on the field. The uproar over his condition entering camp is way overblown - Norv was on local radio last week and said Mathews' conditioning wasn't an issue at all. Anything can happen. Tolbert could go bezerk in the first couple of games with his touches and force this into a RBBC situation. Maybe Mathews gets dinged again and misses games. But every local mailbag, radio interview, etc. I've read/heard from the day the Bolts traded up in the draft through today has been the same: Mathews is going to be the feature guy. It may not be perceived that way nationally or on fantasy message boards, but everyone in the Chargers franchise expects Mathews to win the job and run with it.

Full disclosure: I'm a homer and Mathews' extremely high ceiling is certainly more intoxicating than Tolbert's "better than you think" production. But in fairness, I think the Bolts organization sees it the same way, and Mathews is going to get every opportunity and benefit of the doubt to be the feature.

Thanks Gunz...much appreciated.

 

[DrapedInVelvet]

Best case scenario tonight for those targeting Mathews.

Gunz.....had tomlinson for years and followed the Chargers very closely so obviously got to know a lot of the Charger faithful on the board. Always respected you, JWB, MT and others and I'm a bit surprised to see you all sticking so tight to Matthews. Why would Norv be giving all these touches to a guy who they aren't going to use much? Not trying to be a jerk at all but trying to understand why I'm seeing something completely different than you guys are seeing?

What's up Banger? Tolbert has fantastic hands and is very agile for his size. In a pinch he can carry the load but we're talking about a 5'9, 240 lb fullback from Coastal Carolina who wasn't even drafted. How many of those guys are the guy on a legit Super Bowl contender? Conversely, Mathews is the very definition of a prototypical RB. Despite the headaches he caused fantasy owners last year, Mathews was very productive when he was healthy and on the field. The uproar over his condition entering camp is way overblown - Norv was on local radio last week and said Mathews' conditioning wasn't an issue at all. Anything can happen. Tolbert could go bezerk in the first couple of games with his touches and force this into a RBBC situation. Maybe Mathews gets dinged again and misses games. But every local mailbag, radio interview, etc. I've read/heard from the day the Bolts traded up in the draft through today has been the same: Mathews is going to be the feature guy. It may not be perceived that way nationally or on fantasy message boards, but everyone in the Chargers franchise expects Mathews to win the job and run with it.

Full disclosure: I'm a homer and Mathews' extremely high ceiling is certainly more intoxicating than Tolbert's "better than you think" production. But in fairness, I think the Bolts organization sees it the same way, and Mathews is going to get every opportunity and benefit of the doubt to be the feature.

Thanks for the insight. Is this (the comment about everyone in the Charger's franchise) your opinion as a die hard fan or from something you've heard?

 

[Hoosier16]

Best case scenario tonight for those targeting Mathews.

Gunz.....had tomlinson for years and followed the Chargers very closely so obviously got to know a lot of the Charger faithful on the board. Always respected you, JWB, MT and others and I'm a bit surprised to see you all sticking so tight to Matthews. Why would Norv be giving all these touches to a guy who they aren't going to use much? Not trying to be a jerk at all but trying to understand why I'm seeing something completely different than you guys are seeing?

What's up Banger? Tolbert has fantastic hands and is very agile for his size. In a pinch he can carry the load but we're talking about a 5'9, 240 lb fullback from Coastal Carolina who wasn't even drafted. How many of those guys are the guy on a legit Super Bowl contender? Conversely, Mathews is the very definition of a prototypical RB. Despite the headaches he caused fantasy owners last year, Mathews was very productive when he was healthy and on the field. The uproar over his condition entering camp is way overblown - Norv was on local radio last week and said Mathews' conditioning wasn't an issue at all. Anything can happen. Tolbert could go bezerk in the first couple of games with his touches and force this into a RBBC situation. Maybe Mathews gets dinged again and misses games. But every local mailbag, radio interview, etc. I've read/heard from the day the Bolts traded up in the draft through today has been the same: Mathews is going to be the feature guy. It may not be perceived that way nationally or on fantasy message boards, but everyone in the Chargers franchise expects Mathews to win the job and run with it.

Full disclosure: I'm a homer and Mathews' extremely high ceiling is certainly more intoxicating than Tolbert's "better than you think" production. But in fairness, I think the Bolts organization sees it the same way, and Mathews is going to get every opportunity and benefit of the doubt to be the feature.

who's a better blocker?

Tolbert.

This leads me to think more tolbert, as the bolts only go as far as rivers takes them, and if you don't lose too much from having tollbert back there

This seems to be an odd way to evaluate who will be the main RB.Do you apply this rationale to every other team? Usually, the fullback is the better blocker, since that is usually the responsibility of the fullback. If football teams chose their RB by who was a better blocker, they would all look like offensive linemen.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

I think I'm going to undrink the Mathews Kool-Aid. Tolbert might be a nice guy in the final round of the draft though.

You'll never get him there. His adp is 8.8 as per http://fantasyfootballcalculator.com/adp.php right now

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

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<br>Best case scenario tonight for those targeting Mathews.   <img src="http://forumimages.footballguys.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/thumbup1.gif" class="bbc_emoticon" alt=" "><br>

<br><br>Gunz.....had tomlinson for years and followed the Chargers very closely so obviously got to know a lot of the Charger faithful on the board.  Always respected you, JWB, MT and others and I'm a bit surprised to see you all sticking so tight to Matthews.  Why would Norv be giving all these touches to a guy who they aren't  going to use much?  Not trying to be a jerk at all but trying to understand why I'm seeing something completely different than you guys are seeing?<br>

<br><br>What's up Banger?  Tolbert has fantastic hands and is very agile for his size.  In a pinch he can carry the load but we're talking about a 5'9, 240 lb fullback from Coastal Carolina who wasn't even drafted.  How many of those guys are <i>the</i> guy on a legit Super Bowl contender?  Conversely, Mathews is the very definition of a prototypical RB. Despite the headaches he caused fantasy owners last year, Mathews was very productive when he was healthy and on the field.  The uproar over his condition entering camp is way overblown - Norv was on local radio last week and said Mathews' conditioning wasn't an issue at all.  <br><br>Anything can happen.  Tolbert could go bezerk in the first couple of games with his touches and force this into a RBBC situation.  Maybe Mathews gets dinged again and misses games. But every local mailbag, radio interview, etc. I've read/heard from the day the Bolts traded up in the draft through today has been the same: Mathews is going to be the feature guy. It may not be perceived that way nationally or on fantasy message boards, but everyone in the Chargers franchise expects Mathews to win the job and run with it.  <br><br>Full disclosure: I'm a homer and Mathews' extremely high ceiling is certainly more intoxicating than Tolbert's "better than you think" production.  But in fairness, I think the Bolts organization sees it the same way, and Mathews is going to get every opportunity and benefit of the doubt to be the feature.<br>

<br><br>who's a better blocker?<br>

<br><br>Tolbert.<br>

<br><br><br>This leads me to think more tolbert, as the bolts only go as far as rivers takes them, and if you don't lose too much from having tollbert back there <img src="http://forumimages.footballguys.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/shrug2.gif" class="bbc_emoticon" alt=" "><br><br><br>

<br>This seems to be an odd way to evaluate who will be the main RB.<br><br>Do you apply this rationale to every other team? Usually, the fullback is the better blocker, since that is usually the responsibility of the fullback. If football teams chose their RB by who was a better blocker, they would all look like offensive linemen.<br>

<br><br>why?  Who can actually pick up a blitz (especially when OTA's were non existant and PS is so short) is gonna have a better chance to be out there. I'm not evaluating who  think will be the best back in there.  I am evaluating who I think Turner will put back there/feed the rock too.  Usually when you go FB there, then you lose a lot in quickness/agility and pass catching.  That isn't the case with tollbert.  In fact the case can be made that he's the better receiver of the two also. He's like a crazy hybrid of a FB/scatback. It's a little nuts.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

But every local mailbag, radio interview, etc. I've read/heard from the day the Bolts traded up in the draft through today has been the same: Mathews is going to be the feature guy. It may not be perceived that way nationally or on fantasy message boards, but everyone in the Chargers franchise expects Mathews to win the job and run with it.

La Canfora said some of the Chargers coaches prefer Tolbert a week or two ago on Twitter, so I do not think this is correct unless La Canfora is just making stuff up.

 

[Hoosier16]

They didnt realize what they had in Tolbert at the beginning of last year, so that 2010 argument isn't persuasive. As far as this year goes, either way it ain't good. Either its a somewhat representative sample and its full blown RBBC or Mathews already is missing touches/time that was intended for him b/c of injuries.

I'm also listening to what Norv is saying and what he's doing. Do you think Matthews will be the workhorse? I just don't see it at this point. It's looking like a split to me from what has been said so far and what he's done in camp and in the game.

It looks to me that the Tolbert supporters view this as an either/or situation. Either Matthews is the workhorse or it is a complete split down the middle. It doesn't have to be that way and it seems like most Matthews backers see Tolbert getting 25% - 40% of the carries. That isn't gloom and doom for Matthews. As pointed out by JWB, this offense can easily support two RBs. This is DWill/Stewart or Ronnie/Ricky (2009). If Matthews gets 60% of the RB carries, 40% of the RB receptions, and 50% of the RB TDs, he'd rank in the 10-12 range. Remaining healthy, that is likely his floor, even in a 60/40 split.

 

[treat88]

But every local mailbag, radio interview, etc. I've read/heard from the day the Bolts traded up in the draft through today has been the same: Mathews is going to be the feature guy. It may not be perceived that way nationally or on fantasy message boards, but everyone in the Chargers franchise expects Mathews to win the job and run with it.

La Canfora said some of the Chargers coaches prefer Tolbert a week or two ago on Twitter, so I do not think this is correct unless La Canfora is just making stuff up.

Which would be neither surprising nor a first.

 

[valhallan]

But every local mailbag, radio interview, etc. I've read/heard from the day the Bolts traded up in the draft through today has been the same: Mathews is going to be the feature guy. It may not be perceived that way nationally or on fantasy message boards, but everyone in the Chargers franchise expects Mathews to win the job and run with it.

La Canfora said some of the Chargers coaches prefer Tolbert a week or two ago on Twitter, so I do not think this is correct unless La Canfora is just making stuff up.

Which would be neither surprising nor a first.

I thought we had all learned to ignore La Canfora by now.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

But every local mailbag, radio interview, etc. I've read/heard from the day the Bolts traded up in the draft through today has been the same: Mathews is going to be the feature guy. It may not be perceived that way nationally or on fantasy message boards, but everyone in the Chargers franchise expects Mathews to win the job and run with it.

La Canfora said some of the Chargers coaches prefer Tolbert a week or two ago on Twitter, so I do not think this is correct unless La Canfora is just making stuff up.

One thing that caught my eye in Fausts Training Camp Thread. It doesn't seem to have a quote, but made me pause the 'tollbert is gonna be the guy' mojo

Ryan Mathews, running back. Numerous eyes are on the second-year back, who buckled under the pressure of replacing LaDainian Tomlinson last season. A first-round pick out of Fresno State, Mathews struggled with a high ankle sprain early in the year and never got comfortable with pass protection. If he can be the player management envisioned when it traded up to get him, the offense could reach a nearly unstoppable level. Think about it: Philip Rivers threw for 30 touchdowns with only 13 interceptions last season despite working with a receiving corps that was decimated by injury and holdout. If Rivers could put up those numbers throwing to guys who sometimes did not have a full week of practice before taking the field, imagine what he could do with Vincent Jackson (he missed the first 10 games in a salary dispute), Patrick Crayton and Kelley Washington around for a full season, and veteran Laurent Robinson having a full training camp to get acclimated on top of Mathews' contribution.

Coach Norv Turner is counting on Mathews to not only improve significantly on last season, when he ran for 678 yards and seven TDs on 158 carries, but also to help fill the void that was created when veteran passing-down back Darren Sproles signed with New Orleans as a free agent. Mike Tolbert, who led the team with 735 yards rushing and 11 TDs last year, also could be in the mix. And fullback Jacob Hester could see some time. But Turner says he expects much of the work to go to Mathews.

I'm gonna go check the source, but food for thought. ETA was no source save the author, so i emailed him. will update if i get a reply.

But at the end of the day I think my take remains the same. Mathews is too much of a risk, unless he slides far (4th-5th) in a keeper draft. Where you likey need to jump to get him 2nd/3rd is just too high a price, for a guy who might not be a RB1. You can get Tollbert 4-8 rounds later depending on your league, and he has a pretty decent shot of being the more productive back, especially when looking at Mathews recent injury history and this 'body not quite worked out right' issue.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

They didnt realize what they had in Tolbert at the beginning of last year, so that 2010 argument isn't persuasive. As far as this year goes, either way it ain't good. Either its a somewhat representative sample and its full blown RBBC or Mathews already is missing touches/time that was intended for him b/c of injuries.

I'm also listening to what Norv is saying and what he's doing. Do you think Matthews will be the workhorse? I just don't see it at this point. It's looking like a split to me from what has been said so far and what he's done in camp and in the game.

It looks to me that the Tolbert supporters view this as an either/or situation. Either Matthews is the workhorse or it is a complete split down the middle. It doesn't have to be that way and it seems like most Matthews backers see Tolbert getting 25% - 40% of the carries. That isn't gloom and doom for Matthews. As pointed out by JWB, this offense can easily support two RBs. This is DWill/Stewart or Ronnie/Ricky (2009). If Matthews gets 60% of the RB carries, 40% of the RB receptions, and 50% of the RB TDs, he'd rank in the 10-12 range. Remaining healthy, that is likely his floor, even in a 60/40 split.

Plus I take umbrage with the 'chargers didn't know what they had in tolbert'. He did the same kind of stuff the year before (including this bomb ### 66 yard screen pass with moves) bacl in 2009. I think the charges draft well and draft value. Plus when was the last time they didn't have 2-3 nfl star caliber rb's in their depth chart and not their own RB1 (see LT, Turner, Sproles, etc)

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Fantasy Football Breaking News

Ryan Mathews: Ryan Mathews looks okay coming off bench

Ryan Mathews - RB - SD - Aug. 11 - 9:35 pm etRyan Mathews ran for five yards on two carries and caught a nine-yard pass in the Chargers' preseason opener Thursday night.

Mathews' stats weren't the storyline to watch for on Thursday; his usage was. Mike Tolbert started over Mathews, gave way to him for a series, and then replaced him inside the Seahawks' ten-yard line. Make no mistake: the Chargers have a full-blown running back committee, and Tolbert by all appearances is the favorite to start. That's going to throw a big wrench into Mathews' breakout potential. Tolbert could end up with more touches. Aug. 11 - 9:35 pm et

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Mike Tolbert started the Chargers' preseason opener over Ryan Mathews on Thursday night.

He played the first two series of the game. Mathews rotated in when San Diego entered Seattle territory on the first drive, but Tolbert again replaced him inside the Seahawks' 10-yard line and reached pay dirt on an eight-yard touchdown toss from Philip Rivers. By all indications after watching the Chargers' first-team offense, the backfield will be rotational this season.

 

[Gr00vus]

If Matthews gets 60% of the RB carries, 40% of the RB receptions, and 50% of the RB TDs, he'd rank in the 10-12 range. Remaining healthy, that is likely his floor, even in a 60/40 split.

 

[Gr00vus]

I'd expect Matthews to be the starter once the regular season begins, but I expect Tolbert to get plenty of work also. Last night they were protecting Matthews because he's got some minor tweaks and isn't 100% with his conditioning. In the regular season I'd expect the reps to be split somewhere between 50/50 to 60/40 in Matthews favor to start. Tolbert will get short yardage, and probably a majority of 3rd downs (unless Todman can take that role - which he got a start on last night). Matthews is the Ferrari, Tolbert is the Jeep. They'll both be used accordingly. Things will change if results dictate.

This team needs to go far in the playoffs this year, else I think some major changes at the top will be made. They're not going to mess around forcing a role on Matthews if the team will be more productive with a shared role at tailback.

 

[Ian F]

I take it as a good sign that Mathews played (given he doubts earlier in the week) and showed nicely on the 9yd reception. Further than that the sample size is so small it means nothing.

Otherwise you'd have to factor in that Tolberts first 2 carries went backwards, 2 carries -3 yds and so he obviously sucks!

 

[scrumptrulescent]

This thread has certainly become interesting. Lines being drawn in the sand between a few local homers and everyone else. Media sure does seem quick to want to decide what Mathews will be even though it isn't certain. Is it set in stone that Tolbert will get 50% of the carries, goal line, and 3rd down action?

There's a buzz though and I'm guessing Tolbert's ADP could rise, with Mathews' falling a bit.

 

[the spanker]

They didnt realize what they had in Tolbert at the beginning of last year, so that 2010 argument isn't persuasive. As far as this year goes, either way it ain't good. Either its a somewhat representative sample and its full blown RBBC or Mathews already is missing touches/time that was intended for him b/c of injuries.

I'm also listening to what Norv is saying and what he's doing. Do you think Matthews will be the workhorse? I just don't see it at this point. It's looking like a split to me from what has been said so far and what he's done in camp and in the game.

It looks to me that the Tolbert supporters view this as an either/or situation. Either Matthews is the workhorse or it is a complete split down the middle. It doesn't have to be that way and it seems like most Matthews backers see Tolbert getting 25% - 40% of the carries. That isn't gloom and doom for Matthews. As pointed out by JWB, this offense can easily support two RBs. This is DWill/Stewart or Ronnie/Ricky (2009). If Matthews gets 60% of the RB carries, 40% of the RB receptions, and 50% of the RB TDs, he'd rank in the 10-12 range. Remaining healthy, that is likely his floor, even in a 60/40 split.

I'm still reading through this thread but what I don't understand is, why not draft them both?Wouldn't Tolbert be the perfect flex guy in PPR?

 

[krugoh]

They didnt realize what they had in Tolbert at the beginning of last year, so that 2010 argument isn't persuasive. As far as this year goes, either way it ain't good. Either its a somewhat representative sample and its full blown RBBC or Mathews already is missing touches/time that was intended for him b/c of injuries.

I'm also listening to what Norv is saying and what he's doing. Do you think Matthews will be the workhorse? I just don't see it at this point. It's looking like a split to me from what has been said so far and what he's done in camp and in the game.

It looks to me that the Tolbert supporters view this as an either/or situation. Either Matthews is the workhorse or it is a complete split down the middle. It doesn't have to be that way and it seems like most Matthews backers see Tolbert getting 25% - 40% of the carries. That isn't gloom and doom for Matthews. As pointed out by JWB, this offense can easily support two RBs. This is DWill/Stewart or Ronnie/Ricky (2009). If Matthews gets 60% of the RB carries, 40% of the RB receptions, and 50% of the RB TDs, he'd rank in the 10-12 range. Remaining healthy, that is likely his floor, even in a 60/40 split.

I'm still reading through this thread but what I don't understand is, why not draft them both?Wouldn't Tolbert be the perfect flex guy in PPR?

Not if you can draft Hightower really late

 

[tommyGunZ]

This thread has certainly become interesting. Lines being drawn in the sand between a few local homers and everyone else. Media sure does seem quick to want to decide what Mathews will be even though it isn't certain. Is it set in stone that Tolbert will get 50% of the carries, goal line, and 3rd down action? There's a buzz though and I'm guessing Tolbert's ADP could rise, with Mathews' falling a bit.

I'm putting my chips on Mathews primarily based on talent and the large investment the Bolts made to bring him in, but I understand why others may not feel the same way. Tolbert has produced when given the opportunity, that's undeniable. I just see this as a classic "overanalysis" situation where folks are overlooking the glaringly obvious talent gap between the two, thus providing value.

 

[ChromeWeasel]

This thread has certainly become interesting. Lines being drawn in the sand between a few local homers and everyone else. Media sure does seem quick to want to decide what Mathews will be even though it isn't certain. Is it set in stone that Tolbert will get 50% of the carries, goal line, and 3rd down action? There's a buzz though and I'm guessing Tolbert's ADP could rise, with Mathews' falling a bit.

I'm putting my chips on Mathews primarily based on talent and the large investment the Bolts made to bring him in, but I understand why others may not feel the same way. Tolbert has produced when given the opportunity, that's undeniable. I just see this as a classic "overanalysis" situation where folks are overlooking the glaringly obvious talent gap between the two, thus providing value.

I dont see it as overanalysis. It's a simple matter of value. Tolbert has been a 10th round pick, which Mathews has been a 3rd rounder. At those draft points Tolbert has WAY more upside, being by far the better pick. Tolbert is now rising in draft value; he's up to the 8th round today. He's a lot less of a slam-dunk at that point, but still more valuable than Mathews is.My take is that lots of people are taking this personally because they WANT Mathews to be 'The Guy'. But the unemotional owners are just looking at value and saying that Tolbert is a much better pick. Even if it's not a 50-50 split, he's been a WAY better guy to draft so far. If Tolbert gets you donut all year and he costs you a 10th rounder, big whoop. If Mathews gets you RB3 numbers and you burned a 3rd round pick for him, that's a LOT more damaging.

 

[-jb-]

I just see this as a classic "overanalysis" situation where folks are overlooking the glaringly obvious talent gap between the two, thus providing value.

I think you can look at this from both sides. It could also be a classic overanalysis situation where folks are overlooking the glaringly obvious comments from the head coach, conditioning issues, and emergence of a fairly versatile teammate.That said, I'm buying Mathews more than I am selling. Not totally convinced, but will likely take him if he's there in the 4th and I've started out WR/WR.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Saw this snippet with Rivers from Thursday where he's asked a couple of open ended questions about Chargers backs and their roles. While it's just 2 minutes of off the cuff comments, I think his answers are very telling. Link

 

[Touchdown There]

Saw this snippet with Rivers from Thursday where he's asked a couple of open ended questions about Chargers backs and their roles. While it's just 2 minutes of off the cuff comments, I think his answers are very telling. Link

Just to break it down for those who do not watch the clip, Philip Rivers makes it clear that "Ryan Mathews is the guy that can catch it and go a long ways with the football". Rivers feels like it is "slowing down" for Mathews, which means that Rivers is starting to trust him.

 

[Beerguzzler]

If you had to make a decision between these 2 guys, I would go with Matthews. However, I wouldn't want to even deal with the headache. I just don't see either of them being a dependable 20 carry guy each week. I see multiple weeks where either one can have the big game.

This offense is ready to explode into full on Air Coryell this year. Main guys I would target from the Chargers are PR, VJ, Gates (although the injury does scare me), and Floyd. I would just bypass the running backs altogether and avoid the headache and frustration.

 

[Hoosier16]

If Matthews gets 60% of the RB carries, 40% of the RB receptions, and 50% of the RB TDs, he'd rank in the 10-12 range. Remaining healthy, that is likely his floor, even in a 60/40 split.

Why not? Did he peak last year? He had about the same amount of receptions as Tolbert did last year. Are you suggestion that Todman may get a bunch of recepetions? For TDs, if he gets 60% of the carries, do you not think his TDs will go up? What levels do you think are reasonable for TDs and receptions?

 

[tommyGunZ]

Saw this snippet with Rivers from Thursday where he's asked a couple of open ended questions about Chargers backs and their roles. While it's just 2 minutes of off the cuff comments, I think his answers are very telling. Link

Just to break it down for those who do not watch the clip, Philip Rivers makes it clear that "Ryan Mathews is the guy that can catch it and go a long ways with the football". Rivers feels like it is "slowing down" for Mathews, which means that Rivers is starting to trust him.

Yep. And even more than that Rivers when asked questions about the "running game" probably spent 75% his time talking about Mathews. Again, it may break the other way and Tolbert may end up being a great value pick, but the Bolts are not nearly as down on Mathews as the FF community is. Mathews is still going to get every opportunity to be the lead dog. Everyone in the Charger organization wants him to succeed.

 

[Clifford]

Tolbert listed as starter on rotoworld.

http://rotoworld.com/teams/depth-charts/nfl.aspx

Nothing to see here?

 

[Short Corner]

If you had to make a decision between these 2 guys, I would go with Matthews. However, I wouldn't want to even deal with the headache. I just don't see either of them being a dependable 20 carry guy each week. I see multiple weeks where either one can have the big game.

This offense is ready to explode into full on Air Coryell this year. Main guys I would target from the Chargers are PR, VJ, Gates (although the injury does scare me), and Floyd. I would just bypass the running backs altogether and avoid the headache and frustration.

Not very many of these guys period.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Tolbert listed as starter on rotoworld. http://rotoworld.com/teams/depth-charts/nfl.aspxNothing to see here?

kevin acee > rotoworld when it comes to chargers inside info. Mathews still #1 on his depth chart.

 

[zoonation]

I just see this as a classic "overanalysis" situation where folks are overlooking the glaringly obvious talent gap between the two, thus providing value.

I think you can look at this from both sides. It could also be a classic overanalysis situation where folks are overlooking the glaringly obvious comments from the head coach, conditioning issues, and emergence of a fairly versatile teammate.That said, I'm buying Mathews more than I am selling. Not totally convinced, but will likely take him if he's there in the 4th and I've started out WR/WR.

suicide. Mathews is soft.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Just listened to Kevin Acee (Chargers beat writer - THE guy for inside Charger info, IMO) being interviewed on xx1090 (local sports radio): "Make no mistake, Ryan Mathews is the feature back. Mike Tolbert is still going to get his touches, and could score 8-10 TDs. I'd guess the carries would be maybe 220 (Mathews) and ~ 150 for Tolbert."

As word for word as I can get.

 

[OnTheReg]

If you get a top RB, then you can afford Mathew's as your RB2. He won't kill you if he tanks, but if he pans out - wow.

 

[joffer]

Just listened to Kevin Acee (Chargers beat writer - THE guy for inside Charger info, IMO) being interviewed on xx1090 (local sports radio): "Make no mistake, Ryan Mathews is the feature back. Mike Tolbert is still going to get his touches, and could score 8-10 TDs. I'd guess the carries would be maybe 220 (Mathews) and ~ 150 for Tolbert."As word for word as I can get.

that's probably about right if everyone stays healthy, but that carry % doesn't sound like a "feature back" to me

 

[Gr00vus]

Matthews and Tolbert: 1 and 1a. Matthews isn't going to be Tomlinson II in terms of usage.

 

[-jb-]

:headexplode:

 

[[icon]]

If Tolbert doesn't climb much farther he could be Flex GOLD....esp in the somewhat likely event that Matthews goes down.