Casting Couch
Footballguy
Of course he's lying. He regrets the trade, knowing that he overpaid after the fallout. Now he is merely trying to save face with this garbage.
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Sam Bradford for Nick Foles TRADE ! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Donnybrook
- Start date
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
Trying to understand why Bradford's ceiling is just the beginning and Foles's ceiling is a place that can never be returned to.
Loan Sharks
Not a Wolf
On NFL radio Jeff Fisher said he had a late first on the table for Bradford but he thought the 2nd and Foles was a better deal.
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Donnybrook
Footballguy
Maybe I have been reading this wrong. Does a low first = late first round pick? or does low first = early first round draft pick? I was assuming the former.
Loan Sharks
Not a Wolf
Sorry late first, as in low value. Fixed for clarity.
Looking at the teams with a later first, Browns maybe? or he could be lying.
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Donnybrook
Footballguy
Well I usually try to keep a low profile on twitter but now I spend my time asking stupid questions. Noticed that Foles' Rams jersey had the #5 on it:
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Cross-posted from the Rams thread.
"I would bang the table for Nick Foles as a franchise QB."
Mayock's Slant (after week 3) VIDEO
http://www.nfl.com/v...-Foles-analysis
I'm concerned his footwork is getting worse (paraphrased)
Mayock's Slant - The Good and Bad of Nick Foles (10-29-14) VIDEO
http://www.nfl.com/v...d-of-Nick-Foles
ALSO
Sourced second hand without a link from another board. Talk almost universally has been about the contrast between Foles 2013 (27/2) and 2014 (regressed) campaigns narrative. File his 2012 ROOKIE SEASON stats below into the Did Not Know That Department for me. More impressive than I realized in some respects.
Below is a list of statistics that were compiled about Foles by Philly reporter Reuben Frank after his rookie year ended with a broken hand in week 16. Some of the stats may be out of dates as they are from December 2012.
• Of the 116 quarterbacks in NFL history who threw 200 or more passes as rookies, Foles’ 60.8 completion percentage is fifth-highest, behind only Ben Roethlisberger of the Steelers in 2004 (66.44 percent), Robert Griffin III of the Redskins (66.40 percent) so far this year, Russell Wilson of the Seahawks (63.4 percent) so far this year and Matt Ryan of the Falcons in 2008 (61.1 percent).
• With just five interceptions in 265 pass attempts, Foles averaged one interception every 53 pass attempts. That’s the second-best figure in NFL history by a rookie, behind only RG3’s one INT every 63 pass attempts. Griffin would probably have to be picked off at least three times by the Cowboys Sunday for Foles to pass him for the best interception ratio in NFL history by a rookie quarterback.
• Foles' average of 243 passing yards per game is third-highest in NFL history by a rookie, behind only another current rookie, Andrew Luck (279) and a rookie last year, Cam Newton of the Panthers (253).
• Foles' 60.8 completion percentage is fourth-best in Eagles history, again based on a minimum of 200 pass attempts. The only more accurate seasons were turned in by Donovan McNabb (64.0 percent in 2004, 61.5 percent in 2007) and Michael Vick (62.6 percent in 2010).
• Foles’ 1,699 passing yards are the second-most in NFL history by a quarterback who played seven or fewer games. Brian Griese threw for 1,803 in seven games for the Bears in 2007.
• Foles is only the third rookie QB in NFL history to throw for more than 1,600 yards with five or fewer interceptions. The others are Hall of Famer Otto Graham (1,834 yards, five interceptions) for the Browns in 1946 and, once again, RG3 so far this year.
• Foles is the first rookie in history with two games of 340 or more passing yards and a 62 percent completion percentage. Jeff Garcia had two such games for the 49ers in 1999, but because he had played in the CFL, he wasn’t technically a rookie.
• In just six starts, Foles had four games in which he completed at least 65 percent of his passes (on 20 or more attempts). Only eight rookies have had more such games in an entire season.
• Foles is only the 17th quarterback in NFL history to have a season with at least 250 pass attempts, a completion percentage of at least 60 percent and five or fewer interceptions.
• From 1933 through 2011, there were only five games in which a rookie quarterback had a passer rating of 85 in a game for the Eagles (with 20 or more attempts). One each by 1987 replacement QB Scott Tinsley, plus one by Koy Detmer, Donovan McNabb, Mike Boryla and John Reaves. This year alone, Foles had five such games in just seven appearances.
• Foles had three games in six starts with 45 or more pass attempts. Only Luck (six games) has had more games as a rookie in NFL history with 45 or more pass attempts.
• Foles’ 265 pass attempts are the most in NFL history by a quarterback playing seven or fewer games. The previous high was Griese’s 262 in 2007 and Steve Grogan’s 261 in 1989.
• Of the 116 rookie quarterbacks who’ve attempted 200 or more passes, Foles’ passer rating of 79.1 is 12th-highest and higher than 21 of 23 Hall of Famers (all but Dan Marino 96.0 and Y.A. Tittle).
"I would bang the table for Nick Foles as a franchise QB."
Mayock's Slant (after week 3) VIDEO
http://www.nfl.com/v...-Foles-analysis
I'm concerned his footwork is getting worse (paraphrased)
Mayock's Slant - The Good and Bad of Nick Foles (10-29-14) VIDEO
http://www.nfl.com/v...d-of-Nick-Foles
ALSO
Sourced second hand without a link from another board. Talk almost universally has been about the contrast between Foles 2013 (27/2) and 2014 (regressed) campaigns narrative. File his 2012 ROOKIE SEASON stats below into the Did Not Know That Department for me. More impressive than I realized in some respects.
Below is a list of statistics that were compiled about Foles by Philly reporter Reuben Frank after his rookie year ended with a broken hand in week 16. Some of the stats may be out of dates as they are from December 2012.
• Of the 116 quarterbacks in NFL history who threw 200 or more passes as rookies, Foles’ 60.8 completion percentage is fifth-highest, behind only Ben Roethlisberger of the Steelers in 2004 (66.44 percent), Robert Griffin III of the Redskins (66.40 percent) so far this year, Russell Wilson of the Seahawks (63.4 percent) so far this year and Matt Ryan of the Falcons in 2008 (61.1 percent).
• With just five interceptions in 265 pass attempts, Foles averaged one interception every 53 pass attempts. That’s the second-best figure in NFL history by a rookie, behind only RG3’s one INT every 63 pass attempts. Griffin would probably have to be picked off at least three times by the Cowboys Sunday for Foles to pass him for the best interception ratio in NFL history by a rookie quarterback.
• Foles' average of 243 passing yards per game is third-highest in NFL history by a rookie, behind only another current rookie, Andrew Luck (279) and a rookie last year, Cam Newton of the Panthers (253).
• Foles' 60.8 completion percentage is fourth-best in Eagles history, again based on a minimum of 200 pass attempts. The only more accurate seasons were turned in by Donovan McNabb (64.0 percent in 2004, 61.5 percent in 2007) and Michael Vick (62.6 percent in 2010).
• Foles’ 1,699 passing yards are the second-most in NFL history by a quarterback who played seven or fewer games. Brian Griese threw for 1,803 in seven games for the Bears in 2007.
• Foles is only the third rookie QB in NFL history to throw for more than 1,600 yards with five or fewer interceptions. The others are Hall of Famer Otto Graham (1,834 yards, five interceptions) for the Browns in 1946 and, once again, RG3 so far this year.
• Foles is the first rookie in history with two games of 340 or more passing yards and a 62 percent completion percentage. Jeff Garcia had two such games for the 49ers in 1999, but because he had played in the CFL, he wasn’t technically a rookie.
• In just six starts, Foles had four games in which he completed at least 65 percent of his passes (on 20 or more attempts). Only eight rookies have had more such games in an entire season.
• Foles is only the 17th quarterback in NFL history to have a season with at least 250 pass attempts, a completion percentage of at least 60 percent and five or fewer interceptions.
• From 1933 through 2011, there were only five games in which a rookie quarterback had a passer rating of 85 in a game for the Eagles (with 20 or more attempts). One each by 1987 replacement QB Scott Tinsley, plus one by Koy Detmer, Donovan McNabb, Mike Boryla and John Reaves. This year alone, Foles had five such games in just seven appearances.
• Foles had three games in six starts with 45 or more pass attempts. Only Luck (six games) has had more games as a rookie in NFL history with 45 or more pass attempts.
• Foles’ 265 pass attempts are the most in NFL history by a quarterback playing seven or fewer games. The previous high was Griese’s 262 in 2007 and Steve Grogan’s 261 in 1989.
• Of the 116 rookie quarterbacks who’ve attempted 200 or more passes, Foles’ passer rating of 79.1 is 12th-highest and higher than 21 of 23 Hall of Famers (all but Dan Marino 96.0 and Y.A. Tittle).
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Bob Magaw
Footballguy
"If Sam is healthy," Jaworski said, "this will be a great move by the Eagles."
Jaworski, Arians high on Eagles' Bradford by Zach Berman
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/20150315_Jaworski__Arians_high_on_Eagles__Bradford.html
Most evaluations of the Eagles' new quarterback come with a two-word caveat that seems attached to Sam Bradford's name: if healthy. The qualifier shows both the risk the Eagles absorbed in Tuesday's trade and the potential reward that could come their way.
"When I put the question mark on him, that's it," said former Eagles quarterback Ron Jaworski, an ESPN analyst. "I don't question his talent, his ability, his cerebral ability to lead a football team and run an offense. But he's got to stay healthy."
The Eagles acquired Bradford and a 2015 fifth-round pick for quarterback Nick Foles, a 2016 second-round pick, and a 2015 fourth-round pick. The premium price demonstrated the Eagles' doggedness to acquire Bradford and perhaps an aggressive market for his services.
That aggressiveness might seem misplaced for a five-year veteran who has won only 18 of his 49 starts and has missed most of the last two seasons with two tears to the anterior cruciate ligament in his left knee.
Then again, there's also the appeal of his talent. Just five springs ago, Bradford was the unquestioned No. 1 pick despite missing most of his final season at Oklahoma. He was so prolific in his sophomore season with the Sooners, throwing 50 touchdown passes and eight interceptions, that he won the Heisman Trophy over Colt McCoy and Tim Tebow with more than 62 percent of the votes.
When Jaworski and Arizona Cardinals coach Bruce Arians were asked before Friday's Maxwell Football Club awards about their evaluations of Bradford coming out of college, they had the same response: "Loved him."
"I had him as one of the highest-rated quarterbacks I've ever done," Arians said.
What has come after has shown reason for both excitement and concern.
Bradford validated the evaluations when he won the rookie-of-the-year award and helped the Rams improve from 1-15 to 7-9. Offensive coordinator Pat Shurmur left in 2011 to become head coach of the Cleveland Browns, and Bradford's production declined while he was limited to 10 games because of a high-ankle sprain. He improved in 2012 and part of 2013 before the knee injuries stalled his career.
Bradford's overall statistics are inferior to those of Foles, but the Eagles also considered environmental factors. Bradford played in three offensive systems over four years and only once had a Pro Bowl player on his offense. His most productive receiver was Brandon Gibson.
"The only time we lost to the Rams, Sam was playing," said Arians, 21-11 in two years as the Cardinals coach. "I think he's a great fit [in Philadelphia]. He's very, very comfortable in the shotgun. He's more than ready to bounce back. He's just had bad luck."
Bradford is encouraged about the possibilities in coach Chip Kelly's offense, which also has concepts brought in by Shurmur. The way he discussed those possibilities sounded similar to Mark Sanchez's initial impressions last season, and Sanchez had the best passer rating of his career playing for Kelly.
"The way they set up progressions, the way the ball gets out of your hands, the way they deal with protections, the run game," Bradford said. "From what I've seen, it looks like everything goes through the quarterback - what do you like, how do you see things? And then they're going to tailor it from there. They're never going to put you back there where you have nowhere to go with the football, and then you're standing back there holding onto it for five seconds."
After Tuesday's trade, Jaworski retreated to his office and watched game film from Bradford's 2013 season, the last time Bradford played. Through Week 7, when he was injured, Bradford was having the best season of his career - 14 touchdown passes against four interceptions, a 60.7 completion percentage, and a 90.9 quarterback rating.
"When his game is on, he's got really good movement," Jaworski said. "That functional pocket mobility you have to have, his arm strength is unquestioned."
Yet there were too many times Jaworski saw Bradford on the turf.
"I've got to be honest with you, too: He got beat up," Jaworski said. "And that always concerns me with guys. . . . When you're getting hit physically, it affects you mentally. I want to see how he's able to [respond]. I thought in that '13 season, he was better than before. He just looked a lot more comfortable. He was playing good."
That's what the Eagles seem to be hoping for if they start Bradford after he recovers from knee surgery. Kelly insisted that the only reason Bradford became available was the injury, and the Eagles are buying low on a 27-year-old who was a decorated prospect coming out of college. The risk is the caveat attached to Bradford's name.
"If Sam is healthy," Jaworski said, "this will be a great move by the Eagles."
Jaworski, Arians high on Eagles' Bradford by Zach Berman
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/20150315_Jaworski__Arians_high_on_Eagles__Bradford.html
Most evaluations of the Eagles' new quarterback come with a two-word caveat that seems attached to Sam Bradford's name: if healthy. The qualifier shows both the risk the Eagles absorbed in Tuesday's trade and the potential reward that could come their way.
"When I put the question mark on him, that's it," said former Eagles quarterback Ron Jaworski, an ESPN analyst. "I don't question his talent, his ability, his cerebral ability to lead a football team and run an offense. But he's got to stay healthy."
The Eagles acquired Bradford and a 2015 fifth-round pick for quarterback Nick Foles, a 2016 second-round pick, and a 2015 fourth-round pick. The premium price demonstrated the Eagles' doggedness to acquire Bradford and perhaps an aggressive market for his services.
That aggressiveness might seem misplaced for a five-year veteran who has won only 18 of his 49 starts and has missed most of the last two seasons with two tears to the anterior cruciate ligament in his left knee.
Then again, there's also the appeal of his talent. Just five springs ago, Bradford was the unquestioned No. 1 pick despite missing most of his final season at Oklahoma. He was so prolific in his sophomore season with the Sooners, throwing 50 touchdown passes and eight interceptions, that he won the Heisman Trophy over Colt McCoy and Tim Tebow with more than 62 percent of the votes.
When Jaworski and Arizona Cardinals coach Bruce Arians were asked before Friday's Maxwell Football Club awards about their evaluations of Bradford coming out of college, they had the same response: "Loved him."
"I had him as one of the highest-rated quarterbacks I've ever done," Arians said.
What has come after has shown reason for both excitement and concern.
Bradford validated the evaluations when he won the rookie-of-the-year award and helped the Rams improve from 1-15 to 7-9. Offensive coordinator Pat Shurmur left in 2011 to become head coach of the Cleveland Browns, and Bradford's production declined while he was limited to 10 games because of a high-ankle sprain. He improved in 2012 and part of 2013 before the knee injuries stalled his career.
Bradford's overall statistics are inferior to those of Foles, but the Eagles also considered environmental factors. Bradford played in three offensive systems over four years and only once had a Pro Bowl player on his offense. His most productive receiver was Brandon Gibson.
"The only time we lost to the Rams, Sam was playing," said Arians, 21-11 in two years as the Cardinals coach. "I think he's a great fit [in Philadelphia]. He's very, very comfortable in the shotgun. He's more than ready to bounce back. He's just had bad luck."
Bradford is encouraged about the possibilities in coach Chip Kelly's offense, which also has concepts brought in by Shurmur. The way he discussed those possibilities sounded similar to Mark Sanchez's initial impressions last season, and Sanchez had the best passer rating of his career playing for Kelly.
"The way they set up progressions, the way the ball gets out of your hands, the way they deal with protections, the run game," Bradford said. "From what I've seen, it looks like everything goes through the quarterback - what do you like, how do you see things? And then they're going to tailor it from there. They're never going to put you back there where you have nowhere to go with the football, and then you're standing back there holding onto it for five seconds."
After Tuesday's trade, Jaworski retreated to his office and watched game film from Bradford's 2013 season, the last time Bradford played. Through Week 7, when he was injured, Bradford was having the best season of his career - 14 touchdown passes against four interceptions, a 60.7 completion percentage, and a 90.9 quarterback rating.
"When his game is on, he's got really good movement," Jaworski said. "That functional pocket mobility you have to have, his arm strength is unquestioned."
Yet there were too many times Jaworski saw Bradford on the turf.
"I've got to be honest with you, too: He got beat up," Jaworski said. "And that always concerns me with guys. . . . When you're getting hit physically, it affects you mentally. I want to see how he's able to [respond]. I thought in that '13 season, he was better than before. He just looked a lot more comfortable. He was playing good."
That's what the Eagles seem to be hoping for if they start Bradford after he recovers from knee surgery. Kelly insisted that the only reason Bradford became available was the injury, and the Eagles are buying low on a 27-year-old who was a decorated prospect coming out of college. The risk is the caveat attached to Bradford's name.
"If Sam is healthy," Jaworski said, "this will be a great move by the Eagles."
cstu
Footballguy
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
The Rueben Frank articles were taking down by comcast. I posted them awhile back.
Anyway.. you're team will probably win a superbowl soon. Nick Foles in Philly was like a guy in a relationship where no matter what he does it just wasn't good enough. His partner didn't enjoy riding pony's and magic carpets, they would rather get their heart broken. That's all they know. I glad to see him go. Hopefully the fans and organization gives him the full support that he's yet to receive.
One of the Jaws comments said something about Bradford playing for different coaches. So what? Foles played in two radically different systems and changed QB coaches last season. He still won games without all of the excuses.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
This is one of the biggest issues that no one seems to mention IMHO. Even as much as I liked Foles I could tell last year whether or not the pass would be completed just by watching his feet. IF that doesnt get corrected he will be out of STL after a season or two depedning on how long it takes them to find their next QB.
The differences in 2013 and 2014 with his footwork are night and day
cstu
Footballguy
RT Lane Johnson suspended weeks 1-4
RG Matt Tobin missed weeks 1-3
All-Pro LG Evan Mathis missed weeks 2-8
C Jason Kelce missed weeks 4-7 (ended up making the Pro Bowl, not much help to Foles)
The team's OL swiss army knife Allen Barbre was lost for the season week 1
For the Cardinals game that Mayock analyzed, Foles was missing his All-Pro LG and Pro Bowl center. Yes, he made a lot of mistakes last year but no wonder he wasn't feeling comfortable in the pocket. Week 2 the only starter that wasn't injured was LT Jason Peters.
massraider
Footballguy
#2 rated offensive line last year.
cstu
Footballguy
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
BTW...Todd Herremans was the starting RG/RT for the first 8 games--weeks 1-9
When i was speaking about his footwork it wasnt just the Arizona game or when he was under pressure. It was even when he had a clean pocket and his footwork never improved under any circumstance.
Is this permenant? I dont know but IF it is, its going to be a big problem since he does not have the natural arm-strength to overcome it.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
I appreciate cstu's timing-related OL injury info, and have no doubt it contributed to the breakdown in fundamentals for Foles, especially his footwork. Like most things, disentangling "causes" can be complex and multiple factors probably played a role, OL injuries being one.
The problematic part of that explanation is that Mayock's second set of video links from near mid-season reveal instances when Foles screwed up and was more at fault than the OL. Some of Mayock's points resonated with criticism that he at times sees ghosts and leaves the pocket for no reason. On one highlight he keeps drifting back, back, back for no reason and makes a completion nearly impossible. Later, when he again backed up unnecessarily, he points out there was a clear lane where he could have decisively stepped UP into the pocket, but failed to do so.
From the Rams perspective, apart from how Foles stacks up against Bradford (who just hasn't been available the past season and a half), the former looks like a potentially big upgrade over the likes of Shaun Hill and Austin Davis, who the franchise was reduced to trotting out the past two seasons. Basic ability to play and stay on the field (while Foles doesn't have two straight torn ACLs, he has been knocked out of action all three seasons since his rookie year) and continuity associated with that for the offensive side of the ball would be a start in trying to build on something and take things to the next level, as far as playoff aspirations. They are constructing a formidable defense. The OL needs a lot of work, and is expected to be a focus during the remainder of free agency, and in the draft.
The problematic part of that explanation is that Mayock's second set of video links from near mid-season reveal instances when Foles screwed up and was more at fault than the OL. Some of Mayock's points resonated with criticism that he at times sees ghosts and leaves the pocket for no reason. On one highlight he keeps drifting back, back, back for no reason and makes a completion nearly impossible. Later, when he again backed up unnecessarily, he points out there was a clear lane where he could have decisively stepped UP into the pocket, but failed to do so.
From the Rams perspective, apart from how Foles stacks up against Bradford (who just hasn't been available the past season and a half), the former looks like a potentially big upgrade over the likes of Shaun Hill and Austin Davis, who the franchise was reduced to trotting out the past two seasons. Basic ability to play and stay on the field (while Foles doesn't have two straight torn ACLs, he has been knocked out of action all three seasons since his rookie year) and continuity associated with that for the offensive side of the ball would be a start in trying to build on something and take things to the next level, as far as playoff aspirations. They are constructing a formidable defense. The OL needs a lot of work, and is expected to be a focus during the remainder of free agency, and in the draft.
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cstu
Footballguy
Tobin was supposed to start at RG instead of Herremans before he was injured. Tobin played LG until Mathis came back and then went to RG after Herremans was injured at the same time.
That's not a complete excuse for his play, but the fact is he was playing behind a MASH unit.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Tobin was only supposed to start at RG because Herremans was playing RT during Lane's suspension.
Tobin when healthy was benched in favor of Gardner after Herremans injury.
I'm not saying Foles fails but his footwork in ALL circumstances has to improve in order for him to succeed.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Hopeful on Foles. They need to surround him with a stable, competent OL to best position him for success and maximize his ability. The salary cap windfall from being able to offload Bradford's onerous salary from the books will help in that department (as might the bump to the fourth this year, leading to a pool of 20+ additional prospects from which to choose, and the second next year). With the 1.10 pick, a Zack Martin-like OT playing guard such as Brandon Scherff may be there, as well as a WR like Amari Cooper or Kevin White. Either could help elevate Foles supporting cast.
The thing about Bradford wasn't just, or even most importantly, changing systems (three in his first three years?), imo. His rookie year coincided with former HC Steve Spagnuolo's debut, one in which he blew up the team. In his third year, Fisher blew up the team in HIS initial campaign. So that was two of his first three years. In the second, 2011, PFF or Football Outsiders called the Rams the "most injured" offense or team (?) of the decade. I don't know if that is bad luck or not, but a 1/320 chance. He showed some strides in the first half of 2013 (14/4 TD/INT ratio) and hasn't played since. If he can stay upright, and the PHI OL seems like it could be far superior to what he has played with on the past, the quick decision making and accuracy at Oklahoma that led to the #1 overall pick looks like it should be a good fit in Kelly's tempo offense. I'm giving Kelly the benefit of the doubt that he isn't stark raving, barking at the moon mad and completely insane. I like the 1-2 RB punch acquisition of Murray and Mathews a lot, which should take a lot of pressure off the QB, keep the offense on schedule and in manageable down and distance situations, sustain drives and enable them to score more. McCoy (thinking of the 2014 iteration) took negative plays at times in trying for home runs.
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Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Love or hate the Bradford move this is a great read. There GIFs inside so I couldn't post here.
@fduffy3: ICYMI: My take on Sam Bradford and how he fits perfectly in the #Eagles Offense http://t.co/MpScfZF1PE
@fduffy3: ICYMI: My take on Sam Bradford and how he fits perfectly in the #Eagles Offense http://t.co/MpScfZF1PE
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Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Seven biggest surprises of 2015 offseason
Excerpt -
2. Rams get a big return for Sam Bradford
The conventional wisdom last September: Bradford could only return to the Rams if he took a massive pay cut. The conventional wisdom in January: Bradford's contract was untradeable after back-to-back torn ACLs. The reality in March: St. Louis received a young Pro Bowl quarterback (Nick Foles) and a second-round pick in exchange for Bradford. And Bradford didn't have to take a dime less than his scheduled $12.985 million.
The move outlines how highly Bradford was viewed when he came out of Oklahoma. It also stresses the dearth of quality quarterback options available this offseason. The deal is a huge risk for Chip Kelly, but it's just as risky to enter a season with Mark Sanchez as your starter.
This deal could dramatically alter Kelly's tenure in Philadelphia. Then again, the same things were written when Pete Carroll gave picks and cash to acquire Charlie Whitehurst or when the Seahawks signed Matt Flynn. Kelly and Carroll know that the best route to finding a franchise quarterback is taking a lot of swings at the plate. Bradford has to be thrilled. If he excels in Kelly's system, the 2016 free agent could improbably get his second monster NFL contract despite an underwhelming career. When it comes to finances, Bradford could have some of the luckiest timing in NFL history.
- By Gregg Rosenthal
Excerpt -
2. Rams get a big return for Sam Bradford
The conventional wisdom last September: Bradford could only return to the Rams if he took a massive pay cut. The conventional wisdom in January: Bradford's contract was untradeable after back-to-back torn ACLs. The reality in March: St. Louis received a young Pro Bowl quarterback (Nick Foles) and a second-round pick in exchange for Bradford. And Bradford didn't have to take a dime less than his scheduled $12.985 million.
The move outlines how highly Bradford was viewed when he came out of Oklahoma. It also stresses the dearth of quality quarterback options available this offseason. The deal is a huge risk for Chip Kelly, but it's just as risky to enter a season with Mark Sanchez as your starter.
This deal could dramatically alter Kelly's tenure in Philadelphia. Then again, the same things were written when Pete Carroll gave picks and cash to acquire Charlie Whitehurst or when the Seahawks signed Matt Flynn. Kelly and Carroll know that the best route to finding a franchise quarterback is taking a lot of swings at the plate. Bradford has to be thrilled. If he excels in Kelly's system, the 2016 free agent could improbably get his second monster NFL contract despite an underwhelming career. When it comes to finances, Bradford could have some of the luckiest timing in NFL history.
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Fantasy-wise, this puts Bradford on the map no? He's much more gifted than Foles, and tearing two ACLs in two years can be fairly attributed to horrible luck... as preposterous as those Murray and Mathews signings were, this might be a home run.
If he beats Sanchez out in training camp, we know. Sanchez produced last year, but he's a limited QB. If Bradford wipes the floor with him in training camp (which is something we can figure out easily enough), I say he's a fantasy starter even without Maclin.
If he beats Sanchez out in training camp, we know. Sanchez produced last year, but he's a limited QB. If Bradford wipes the floor with him in training camp (which is something we can figure out easily enough), I say he's a fantasy starter even without Maclin.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Fisher favors a power run game to set the table for play action, so he won't be flinging the ball all over the field like the 27/2 season in '13 under Chip Kelly. I hope he does well as a Rams fan, but whoever is the QB in PHI (Bradford if healthy) should be more prolific almost by default. I hope the trade works out for both teams. I'll be happy if Foles just plays 16 games (or close to), which hopefully translates to more wins.
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Bob Magaw
Footballguy
First I heard of this, leading off Peter King's latest MMQB column Ten Things I Think I Think section. The ability and willingness to include Nick Foles was not the only reason the deal got done with PHI instead of CLE.
Excerpt excerpt - "Bradford would not have been willing to sign a new contract this off-season if he were traded to Cleveland, and he is willing to consider an extension in Philadelphia."
http://mmqb.si.com/2015/03/30/extra-points-pat-rule-change-nfl-draft/5/
"I think I can now say with certainty that The Other Team in the chase for Sam Bradford—as many have inferred—was Cleveland. The Browns would have been willing to part with a first-round pick in either 2015 or 2016 (I do not know which year) for Bradford, but there were two problems: One, the Browns didn’t have a quarterback to give in return, and Philadelphia was willing to fork over Nick Foles. Two, Bradford would not have been willing to sign a new contract this off-season if he were traded to Cleveland, and he is willing to consider an extension in Philadelphia. So the Philly deal was really the only one that made sense for the Rams and for Bradford, in the end."
* If true, this would seem to shoot down the Mary Kay Cabot's theory, linked by Faust elsewhere, that CLE could take another run at Bradford (unless he were to change his mind about working with them on an extension?).
Excerpt excerpt - "Bradford would not have been willing to sign a new contract this off-season if he were traded to Cleveland, and he is willing to consider an extension in Philadelphia."
http://mmqb.si.com/2015/03/30/extra-points-pat-rule-change-nfl-draft/5/
"I think I can now say with certainty that The Other Team in the chase for Sam Bradford—as many have inferred—was Cleveland. The Browns would have been willing to part with a first-round pick in either 2015 or 2016 (I do not know which year) for Bradford, but there were two problems: One, the Browns didn’t have a quarterback to give in return, and Philadelphia was willing to fork over Nick Foles. Two, Bradford would not have been willing to sign a new contract this off-season if he were traded to Cleveland, and he is willing to consider an extension in Philadelphia. So the Philly deal was really the only one that made sense for the Rams and for Bradford, in the end."
* If true, this would seem to shoot down the Mary Kay Cabot's theory, linked by Faust elsewhere, that CLE could take another run at Bradford (unless he were to change his mind about working with them on an extension?).
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The same 2013 season where Philly threw the ball a total of 504 times? 6th fewest attempts in the league that year? With Foles only getting 317 of those attempts (5 in 2 early games before he became the starter), I don't think that qualifies as "flinging the ball all over the field."
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
2014 would seem to be a better example than 2013 in contrasting PHI and STL passing attempts.
PHI was top 5 with 38.8 attempts per game, STL bottom 10 with 32.2.
The larger point stands, if Bradford is healthy, imo he will be put in a better position in PHI to be productive passing stat-wise, than Foles will be in STL.
Not just due to passing attempt stats, but for systemic reasons having to do with the scheme. The all over the field remark had to do with play design and supporting cast/surrounding talent (OL, WR, etc.) as well as strictly volume. In other words, in 2013, Foles 9.1 Y/A was best in the NFL for QBs with more than 13 attempts. Bradford's 6.4 was close to last among starters, with Joe Flacco and Mike Glennon. In Foles best season, 2013, he had DeSean Jackson to throw to. The Rams have an improving WR corp, especially if Quick is healthy, but nobody as dangerous a deep threat as Jackson was that season. Maybe Bradford was a checkdown artist, but if the OL isn't as good, and the WRs aren't as good (comparing 2013, again), than it is going to be hard to be as productive as some other QBs, all things being equal. Part of that may have been scheme, Brian Schottenheimer was the OC since 2012, when Fisher became the HC. Dating back to the Jets, his passing offenses haven't fared that well statistically. Was he dealt a bad hand at the QB position, or did he contribute to the problems by not using his personnel as creatively as he might have? Is his system unnecessarily complex? The below article addresses some of these points.
http://nyjetscap.com/Schottenheimer.html
If you polled league types where Schottenheimer and Chip Kelly would fall on the passing game spectrum both in terms of creativity and competency, it is clear to me Kelly would fare much, much better. Now Schottenheimer is gone, but Fisher did choose him. Now that new OC Cignetti has a chance to install his offense and passing attack, we will get a chance to see if he is more creative and/or competent than his predecessor. Or, is it kind of a Jeff Fisher mandate to be conservative thing? Again, not just volume of pass plays, but quality of plays, how many are downfield. And how does supporting cast and surrounding talent play into that. Is the PHI OL better than STL? If the run game takes pressure off of the QB, Mason is promising, but given a choice, I'd take Murray and Mathews.
* A more straightforward way to make this point is to look at Sanchez. Like Bradford, he didn't do well under Schottenheimer. Once he went to PHI, he looked better at times than he ever did with the Jets. Same guy, with the different coach (and his different system/scheme) being seemingly the key variable in the equation that was changed to produce such a dramatically different result. Unlike Foles, Bradford is flowing in the right direction regarding that equation.
PHI was top 5 with 38.8 attempts per game, STL bottom 10 with 32.2.
The larger point stands, if Bradford is healthy, imo he will be put in a better position in PHI to be productive passing stat-wise, than Foles will be in STL.
Not just due to passing attempt stats, but for systemic reasons having to do with the scheme. The all over the field remark had to do with play design and supporting cast/surrounding talent (OL, WR, etc.) as well as strictly volume. In other words, in 2013, Foles 9.1 Y/A was best in the NFL for QBs with more than 13 attempts. Bradford's 6.4 was close to last among starters, with Joe Flacco and Mike Glennon. In Foles best season, 2013, he had DeSean Jackson to throw to. The Rams have an improving WR corp, especially if Quick is healthy, but nobody as dangerous a deep threat as Jackson was that season. Maybe Bradford was a checkdown artist, but if the OL isn't as good, and the WRs aren't as good (comparing 2013, again), than it is going to be hard to be as productive as some other QBs, all things being equal. Part of that may have been scheme, Brian Schottenheimer was the OC since 2012, when Fisher became the HC. Dating back to the Jets, his passing offenses haven't fared that well statistically. Was he dealt a bad hand at the QB position, or did he contribute to the problems by not using his personnel as creatively as he might have? Is his system unnecessarily complex? The below article addresses some of these points.
http://nyjetscap.com/Schottenheimer.html
If you polled league types where Schottenheimer and Chip Kelly would fall on the passing game spectrum both in terms of creativity and competency, it is clear to me Kelly would fare much, much better. Now Schottenheimer is gone, but Fisher did choose him. Now that new OC Cignetti has a chance to install his offense and passing attack, we will get a chance to see if he is more creative and/or competent than his predecessor. Or, is it kind of a Jeff Fisher mandate to be conservative thing? Again, not just volume of pass plays, but quality of plays, how many are downfield. And how does supporting cast and surrounding talent play into that. Is the PHI OL better than STL? If the run game takes pressure off of the QB, Mason is promising, but given a choice, I'd take Murray and Mathews.
* A more straightforward way to make this point is to look at Sanchez. Like Bradford, he didn't do well under Schottenheimer. Once he went to PHI, he looked better at times than he ever did with the Jets. Same guy, with the different coach (and his different system/scheme) being seemingly the key variable in the equation that was changed to produce such a dramatically different result. Unlike Foles, Bradford is flowing in the right direction regarding that equation.
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Bradford hasn't played in two years. He's getting more comfortable. If you watched the game yesterday, you'd have seen that he had two more touchdown passes where his guys simply dropped the ball. I thought he had a very good game against a top 5 defense
Insein
Footballguy
Insein
Footballguy
Billy Bats
Footballguy
Skeletore Eh
Footballguy
I don't know how you come away with that impression from either half. He was highly innacurate throughout the day
yes. As I've admitted about 20 times. I think many of you pessimists are forgetting how bad the Jets made Andrew Luck look last week. They are a great defense. Not good. Great. And I thought Bradford played a very good first half. The only terrible throw I saw was the worm burner to Agholar. If this was a Jacksonville or Tennessee defense, I'd ferl differently.
bulger2holt
Footballguy
If the Rams could run the ball, protect Foles a little better and get some separation from their receivers, Foles would look a lot better.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Billy Bats
Footballguy
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
PFF viewpoint since some idiots in the Birds thread don't like it when a fan is capable of being objective.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/09/28/pit-stl-grades-bell-leads-steelers-big-ben-injured/
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/09/28/phi-nyj-grades-bradford-struggles-despite-win/
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/09/28/pit-stl-grades-bell-leads-steelers-big-ben-injured/
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/09/28/phi-nyj-grades-bradford-struggles-despite-win/
Are you crying right now?
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Deamon
Footballguy
You are the least objective person in the threads. You are so pro-foles, anti-chip, anti-bradford that you are incapable of an objective opinion. Thanks for calling me an idiot though. Quoting you, "OMG YOU"RE SO COOL!"
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
We should probably chill on the PFF...
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Nothing is perfect. It's just a lot better than a guy that doesn't even watch the game yet speaks like an expert, a fanboy, and someone that hates his favorite team. They have a process. 2013 Foles wasn't even a top-15 QB I believe. It's fair to say the least.
dhockster
Footballguy
Wow.
It's good to see that ShaHbucks, JuniorNB, and Deamon are now ruining two threads.
Let me try to help. Bradford has not played well in three starts. I am the biggest Eagles fan and was very hopeful on this trade, but he has not played well.
ShaHbucks was critical of making the trade, and some of his fears have been confirmed. It is okay to point that out. To keep pointing that out gets old for other Eagles fans who are disappointed that he has been right so far.
Deamon and JuniorNB are trying to be optimistic fans, which I think is a good thing. However, it is okay for other people to be critical. Lighten up a little bit. At this point, I think ShaHbucks is just trying to rile you up because he
knows he can. Let it go.
Guys, the start of the season has been depressing enough without having to read you guys having a posting battle. Get over it for all of our sakes. Thanks.
It's good to see that ShaHbucks, JuniorNB, and Deamon are now ruining two threads.
Let me try to help. Bradford has not played well in three starts. I am the biggest Eagles fan and was very hopeful on this trade, but he has not played well.
ShaHbucks was critical of making the trade, and some of his fears have been confirmed. It is okay to point that out. To keep pointing that out gets old for other Eagles fans who are disappointed that he has been right so far.
Deamon and JuniorNB are trying to be optimistic fans, which I think is a good thing. However, it is okay for other people to be critical. Lighten up a little bit. At this point, I think ShaHbucks is just trying to rile you up because he
knows he can. Let it go.
Guys, the start of the season has been depressing enough without having to read you guys having a posting battle. Get over it for all of our sakes. Thanks.
We know that. That's called being a troll. Which is all I was pointing out. It's bad enough when a team's fans have to deal with the trolls from other fan bases. But when an idiot is sad enough to get his rocks off trolling his own team's fans, then it's going to get pointed out. I just hope life eventually offers him bigger joys.
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
I'm human. They completely disrespected me for having my own logical opinion for months now. I reacted and do find this hilarious. My apologies not considering what the rest of you guys frequent the site for.
This thread is about the ramifications of the Foles/Bradford trade. Lets keep it at that.
dhockster
Footballguy
If you think he is a troll, then stop responding. I know you mean well, but at this point, you are not going to agree with him, and he is not going to agree with you. Name calling is not going to help you prove your point. For all our sakes (even ShaHbucks) let's hope Kelly and Bradford figure this thing out and we can stop talking about how bad he has played.
