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Sam Bradford for Nick Foles TRADE ! (1 Viewer)

Let me try and talk Eagles fans off the ledge:

Bradford has had three stages of his career: The first three years were anywhere from average to mediocre. Those were partly the growing pains of being in the NFL and partly the fact that the first two years were on a team that was historically bad and the third year was with 60% roster turnover and loaded with marginal UDFAs. His job was not to turn WR2s into WR1s, his job was to turn WR4s into WR1s. (Brandon Gibson was a #4 on that offensive juggernaut Miami and Tom Brady couldn't get Amendola anywhere near Wes Welker. The two years after they left St Louis weren't as good as their best single seasons in St Louis.) The third part of his career so far has been the one spent on the sideline.

What the Eagles hope they are getting was the second part of his career. The seven-game window in 2013 had Bradford finally tapping into his potential. His numbers projected out to be a top-ten QB, with 32 TDs and 9 INTs. That is comparable to what Foles put up in 2013. But here's the difference. 2014 showed that those numbers were pretty much Foles's ceiling. For Bradford, it was a threshold. You saw the best you'd get with Foles. The best with Bradford is better than what you would get with Foles.

The question isn't the talent. The question is the injuries.

If you want a comparison of what Bradford could become, look at these numbers:

Year 1:
1 game 55% completion 221 yards 1 TD 0 INT
Year 2:
16 games 60% completion 3284 yards 17 TDs 16 INTs
Year 3:
11 games
57% completion 2108 yards 11 TDs 15 INTs

Pretty mediocre numbers, yes? That was someone who was expected to be the savior of a franchise, and by the time those three years were done, fans were clamoring for his head, and the team obliged by drafting his replacement.

That was Drew Brees. Horrible team around him while they were in the talent-acquiring phase and he went through his growing pains. I am not saying that Bradford will become Brees... just that the capacity is there.

The real problem is Kelly stripping the offense of known commodities and banking on "the system." It's sad to see Bradford go from a team that had no offensive talent when he was on the field to a team that is dismantiling their offensive talent. Guy can't catch a break.

 
Last 2 posts have helped me

Thank you both
That's what you get when you listen to the indifferent media that just delves on the surface instead of people who are vested in the team. It's just like I'm sure you could tell me a lot about Foles that I wouldn't get as an Eagles outsider. Because right now, I feel we took a step backward on the field. Cap room is good and will help the team, but just the QB position alone.... I feel we saw Foles's ceiling and he won't get close to that again. We'll let him walk at the end of the season and we'll be back to square one with the QB.

 
Here's a sidenote on this though: if this stripped-down version of the Eagles offense works out, I won't draft an offensive player who comes out of Oregon for the next three years. It would show that the success is the product of the system and it can work with lesser talent on offense. Translation: offense loaded with system players who may not be built for a conventional NFL team.

 
Last 2 posts have helped me

Thank you both
That's what you get when you listen to the indifferent media that just delves on the surface instead of people who are vested in the team. It's just like I'm sure you could tell me a lot about Foles that I wouldn't get as an Eagles outsider. Because right now, I feel we took a step backward on the field. Cap room is good and will help the team, but just the QB position alone.... I feel we saw Foles's ceiling and he won't get close to that again. We'll let him walk at the end of the season and we'll be back to square one with the QB.
So his ceiling was Hall of Fame level play. Yea wouldn't want to be stuck with that.

 
It's a bad trade but fans need to get a grip. Both QB's are in the last year of their deal so all the Eagles really lost if Bradford doesn't pan out is cap money and a 2nd.
And Nick Foles.
And a future if Bradford stinks or likely shreds another ligament or three.
I think Kelly looks at it like he has Sanchez, who put up better numbers than Foles in 14 across the board, that makes this a gamble he can afford to take. Foles was expendable to him.
 
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It's a bad trade but fans need to get a grip. Both QB's are in the last year of their deal so all the Eagles really lost if Bradford doesn't pan out is cap money and a 2nd.
And Nick Foles.
And a future if Bradford stinks or likely shreds another ligament or three.
I think Kelly looks at it like he has Sanchez, who put up better numbers than Foles in 14 across the board, that makes this a gamble he can afford to take. Foles was expendable to him.
It's two things - Chip didn't like Foles for his offense and Foles wasn't going to stay in Philly where he knows the coach doesn't want him. Chip's options were to use Foles for a year and figure the QB situation out next year or make his move on from Bradford who would have been a hot free agent with a decent year.

 
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Last 2 posts have helped me

Thank you both
De nada.

My poll was flawed and had an oversight, in that it didn't contain the obvious possibility of a win win situation in which both organizations benefit from the exchange.

IMO, the extreme negativilty and pessimism from the PHI side (and maybe in general, poll was at around a 90% clip for STL last time I checked, with 125 votes in and something like a 111-14 ratio) stems from several perceptions/observations, a few of which could be reasonable, but a few which may not be.

1 - Bradford's horrific injury history, especially the past two years. Point taken. :) I'm not an offensive line specialist, but doesn't PHI have a much better OL than STL (though there was a suspension with the RT, perhaps they were banged up?). Jason Peters is arguably the top LT in the game, easily better than a past his prime Jake Long, and the best Bradford has ever worked with. The RT Johnson is a top 3-5 overall pick, though he has struggled at times?

2 - Even when healthy, Bradford is mediocre. Clearly Kelly isn't viewing him through the prism of his beleagured body of work when he inherited, without exaggeration, one of not only the most heinous organizational situations in NFL history, but in the history of professional sports. I think they were 15-65 in a five year span either before he was drafted, or including his first few years. One response was, well it was his fault. People like neat, simple generalities and not messy specifics. Research all the WRs he had to work with in his first few years (but block out a chunk of time). How much continuity could he have had with the revolving door at WR and OL? Another response is, all teams have injuries. PFF (or Football Outsiders, hard for me to keep them straight at times) estimated they were the most injured team of the DECADE in one of those first few years. It was like all three QBs, five OL, more than the starting WRs (I think Donnie Avery and Mark Clayton both tore ACLs), etc. Sorry, that isn't a routine, run of the mill, every team has injuries situation.

3 - Foles is a very good QB, and should not have been included in the trade, a second should have sufficed. But Kelly wanted Bradford, insiders (for what that is worth) stated the Rams had multiple suitors, so the main attraction PHI held was a starting QB in return. The second was a cost of doing business. Kelly was clearly not high on Foles prospects. If he was as great as some people think (hey, as a Rams fan, I hope he is the answer), more teams would have been banging their door down to obtain him. It would seem that wasn't the case. Maybe some have overstated this point?

4 - The addition of a 2016 second is absurdly overpaying. Yet if Bradford breaks through, fulfills his potential and becomes a franchise QB, tossing in a second with Foles will seem like a trifle this time next year, and we may all collectively laugh that so much sound and fury, and aggregate hand wringing/teeth gnashing was spent on it. The Rams had three second round picks in 2012. RB Pead has been a colossal bust and probably is soon cut. WR Quick looked like a bust but flashed last year and could be a keeper. CB Janoris Jenkins after a promising rookie year as a playmaker, has generally disappointed since, imo, and they may let him walk after his rookie contract. Teams aren't made or broken by the presence or absence of a future second rounder. But making a right or wrong choice at QB can have massive repercussions. If Bradford hits big, his value greatly exceeds the second that was the cost of doing business.

* As Pink Floyd's David Gilmour said in an interview during the film Live At Pompeii, about allegations of being a drug-orientated band, while smiling disarmingly, we aren't really. You can trust us. :)

Snead and Fisher are ethical salesmen. You can trust them.

 
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Here's a sidenote on this though: if this stripped-down version of the Eagles offense works out, I won't draft an offensive player who comes out of Oregon for the next three years. It would show that the success is the product of the system and it can work with lesser talent on offense. Translation: offense loaded with system players who may not be built for a conventional NFL team.
Just look at all the QBs and RBs that have come out of Oregon with incredible stats - and then go on to not even make an NFL practice squad

 
@SharpFootball: Sam Bradford can succeed in Philadelphia... because Chip Kelly

http://t.co/06lCQl0tP1

Precisely what Kelly will do to maximize his potential

Sam Bradford can Succeed in Philadelphia Because Chip Kelly

Posted on March 11, 2015

By Warren Sharp

Ive long been a Sam Bradford skeptic. I introduced the notion following the 2013 season that there are very quantifiable problems with his production on the Rams:

Since 2010, only 6 quarterbacks (of 151 qualifying) had seasons where they threw for LESS than 3 yards before catch (the opposite of YAC, where the receiver gains yardage after catching the ball). Bradford had two such seasons, in 2010 and 2013, to join CARs Jimmy Clausen, DETs Shaun Hill, JACs Blaine Gabbert, MINs Christian Ponder and JACs Chad Henne.

55% of Bradfords total passing yardage came after the catch in 2013, 2nd most of 41 qualifying QBs.

Bradfords accuracy percentage under pressure dipped to 53%, which was 38th out of those 41 QBs, with only Brandon Weeden (CLE), Matt McGloin (OAK) and Thaddeus Lewis (BUF) worse.

A few weeks ago, I dug into how Bradford performed on the passes where he DID decide to throw deep. Though he didnt throw deep often, those results were equally uninspiring. Additionally, the 2014 season cemented issues with Bradfords deep passing: although he didnt play in 2014 due to injury, his backups threw downfield more often, with greater success. So it wasnt entirely a system or lack of team talent thing as to why Bradford was not throwing deep as often. It was a Bradford thing.

Aside from the what we saw from the stats, what else was not to like with Sam Bradford? The salary and the injuries. In 2015, Bradford hits the Eagles for $13M against the cap (as compared to Foles at just 10% of that). However, as Bradford enters his final year from his rookie deal in 2010, I do think if Chip Kelly really believes Bradford can work for the Eagles, they will do their best to renegotiate and lower that 2015 cap hit and get Bradford under a more reasonable, multi-year deal before the 2015 season begins. And then there are the injuries. Bradford has torn the same ACL twice. He missed all of last year. To say he is injury prone is taking it lightly. Since 2010, Bradford has played in 49 of 80 regular season games for the Rams, meaning he has missed almost 40% of his starts. If that continues, the Eagles should expect him to play in 10 of their 16 games in 2015, and that assumes Bradfords 28 year old body (turns 28 in November) is as durable as his 23 year old rookie body.

In my opinion, it was time for the Rams to move on from Sam Bradford. While I initially didnt anticipate a smart coach like Chip Kelly taking the chance to grab Bradford, I can see glimmers of how it could work in Philadelphia, and how there is an outside shot at Bradford resurrecting his career:

Heavy Use of Play Action

Since 2012 (the first appearance of reliable play action data), on average, NFL teams run play action on 21% of all pass plays. Bradford hit that 21% mark in 2012, but in 2013, ran play action just 19% of the time.

On average, the NFL passer rating increases by 10.5 points for play action passes vs non-play action passes. Thats surely one reason the Eagles under Chip Kelly have thrown play action passes 32% of all pass plays, which is obviously WELL above the league average. Its 2nd most in the NFL, but the #1 most frequent team (Seattle) is only a few tenths more frequent. The #3 team (Carolina) is way down at 28%.

However, unlike Seattle seeing average improvement in passer rating (+11.2) from using play action so often, the Eagles passer rating improves +25.8 points. They are the only team in the NFL to move from sub-90 in passer rating without play action to above-110. The only team who sees a more substantial jump are the Chargers, who move from 96 up to 132 with play action, but they run it ridiculously infrequently using play action passes on just 126 of a total 1,216 passes, or 10.4%. They are the only team below 15%, and well below the league avg of 21%.

So the fact that the Eagles are able to use play action SO frequently, AND see such a HUGE boost in passer rating, really is unthinkable.

Sam Bradford, when using play action, saw a boost in passer rating from 81.7 to 106.5. Thats almost a 25 point increase, EXTREMELY similar to the Eagles average of 25.8, and obviously well above league average.

Of course, to use play action so effectively and efficiently, you need a running game. The Eagles, behind the #1 run blocking offensive line the past 2 years, had one. But they just traded LeSean McCoy, and failed to acquire Frank Gore. So someone will have to establish a strong run game to make defenses respect the run, but assuming that it happens, I highly expect Bradford to use play action more than he ever has in his professional career, with good results.

Increased Deep Passing

This is a case where we simply need to trust Chip Kelly. As mentioned above, Sam Bradford as a Ram threw infrequently down field, and most often, poorly when he did throw down field. But it goes against common sense that Chip Kelly, who has called deep passes more frequently in the NFL than any other team, would invest so much in a quarterback who couldnt throw deep.

Lets examine the Chip Kelly timeline:

In 2012, the year before Chip Kelly arrived, Nick Foles threw 10.6% of his passes 20+ yards down field. That was 24th most frequently in the NFL. Foles was accurate on 35.7% of these passes, with 4 TDs, 2 Ints and 10.4 ypa average.

In 2013, Foles threw 17.4% of his passes 20+ yards down field, the #1 most frequent in the NFL. He was accurate on 45.5% of these passes, with 14 TDs, 1 Int and a 14.6 ypa average.

In 2014, the Eagles lost DeSean Jackson to Washington, and the deep passing game suffered. Foles threw 18.9% of passes 20+ yards down field (still #1 most frequent, even more often than 2013) but was accurate on just 35.6%. Similarly, Mark Sanchez was accurate on just 35.1% of deep passes, but whether by design (Kelly less confident) or by QB read progression (Sanchez less confident), Sanchez threw down field just 12% of his attempts. Combined, the two QBs recorded 11 TDs, 10 Ints and just a 9.8 ypa average.

You can imagine this was not pleasing to Kelly. Surely this offseason he will do things with his receivers, be they personnel moves or offensive strategy, to improve down field passing from 2014.

Sam Bradford attempted just 8.4% of his passes in 2013 20+ yards down field. He was accurate on 40.9% of those attempts, for 12.6 ypa, but recorded a 1:2 TD:INT ratio. Obviously his offense didnt put him close enough to score TDs as often, so that ratio doesnt bother me as much as it might to some. But the accuracy % and the ypa were both superior to what the Eagles did last year.

In 2011 and 2012, Bradfords was better in deep passing than in 2013. In 2012, where he was accurate on 41.7% of attempts (attempted deep passes on 13.1% of throws) for 12 ypa and a 8:6 TD:Int ratio. In 2011, Bradford was accurate on 48.8% of his deep passes (attempted deep passes on 11.5% of throws), which was actually the 7th best accuracy mark in the NFL that season. He again threw for 12 ypa, and recorded a 4:2 TD:INT ratio.

Chip Kelly must see the foundation there to see success for Bradford in the deep passing game, more so than what Foles and Sanchez gave him last year which was 35% accuracy and 9.8 ypa. On the Rams, a team who infrequently ran play action to give the passer more time to let deeper routes develop, Bradford was accurate on 40%+ of his deep throws the over his last 3 seasons. Kelly must believe that there will be ample opportunity to throw deep, and he likely try to rekindle the 48.8% accuracy on these passes that Bradford had in 2011, rather than the steadily declining accuracy he has exhibited from 2012 to 2013.

Bottom Line

There still is a lot to overcome with this trade. If Bradford can stay healthy, I really think he could see marginal success under just a few offensive coaches, and Chip Kelly is one of them. The Eagles could be approaching the contract in a few ways: They could either view it as a 1 year roll of the dice on an injured QB who they could re-sign following next year if he works out, or they could attempt to re-sign Bradford sooner, to lower the 2015 cap hit and then really roll the dice that he will work out. The problem with letting him finish out his deal is that if he excels, given the way the Eagles offense is designed, he will put up big numbers which certainly will help his leverage when trying to sign a deal after the season. The obvious risk is that you re-sign him first, and he gets injured again or doesnt provide any more of a fit for Kelly than Sanchez or Foles. Its a fascinating dilemma but one that certainly the Eagles have figured out, or they wouldnt have made such a move in to acquire Bradford. Perhaps Kelly believes his conditioning and sports science will help keep Bradford healthy?

Im not going to shy from my criticism of Bradford, but I will reiterate (as I introduced above) there are several fundamental differences between the offenses Bradford was in and will now be in. Those are just a few examples of things Kelly will do differently to help Bradford. Am I supremely confident it will work? Are there not still plenty of red flags surrounding Bradford on the field, including his inaccuracy under pressure? (On that note, Foles was accurate on 68% of attempts under pressure in Kellys first year 7th best but that number dipped to 51.9% last year, 37th in the NFL and even worse than Bradfords 53.4% in 2013).

Chip Kelly can maximize Bradfords talent while minimizing his deficiency as well as any coach in the NFL. The question is will it be enough to finally make a trip to the playoffs. Kelly has a long leash, but public sentiment goes a long way, and shipping out fan favorite after fan favorite only works if the team wins. If Kelly passes on Marcus Mariota in the draft because he went after Sam Bradford instead, and Sam Bradford bombs in Philadelphia, fans will not be pleased. But with Chip Kelly and his progressive and aggressive approach both on and (clearly) off the field, Im inclined to reserve judgement until I see what happens on Sundays, and instead, focus on what I think Kelly will do to get the most out of the former #1 draft pick.
 
Kelly was clearly not high on Foles prospects. If he was as great as some people think (hey, as a Rams fan, I hope he is the answer), more teams would have been banging their door down to obtain him. It would seem that wasn't the case. Maybe some have overstated this point?
No one is going to beat the door down for a QB they know will be on the open market in 2016. I would be surprised if the Eagles didn't get offers of mid round picks for him, but they weren't going to get a 1st or anything close to it.

 
I have never seen a person write more words on one player than Bob Magaw on Bradford. Simply amazing. I'm happy for him. This trade had to be a wet dream for him.

 
Kelly was clearly not high on Foles prospects. If he was as great as some people think (hey, as a Rams fan, I hope he is the answer), more teams would have been banging their door down to obtain him. It would seem that wasn't the case. Maybe some have overstated this point?
No one is going to beat the door down for a QB they know will be on the open market in 2016. I would be surprised if the Eagles didn't get offers of mid round picks for him, but they weren't going to get a 1st or anything close to it.
Eagles sure beat down the door for Bradford.

 
Kelly was clearly not high on Foles prospects. If he was as great as some people think (hey, as a Rams fan, I hope he is the answer), more teams would have been banging their door down to obtain him. It would seem that wasn't the case. Maybe some have overstated this point?
No one is going to beat the door down for a QB they know will be on the open market in 2016. I would be surprised if the Eagles didn't get offers of mid round picks for him, but they weren't going to get a 1st or anything close to it.
Eagles sure beat down the door for Bradford.
Different situations - if Bradford played well for the Rams they would have re-signed him, if Foles played well for the Eagles they wouldn't have re-signed him.

 
Kelly was clearly not high on Foles prospects. If he was as great as some people think (hey, as a Rams fan, I hope he is the answer), more teams would have been banging their door down to obtain him. It would seem that wasn't the case. Maybe some have overstated this point?
No one is going to beat the door down for a QB they know will be on the open market in 2016. I would be surprised if the Eagles didn't get offers of mid round picks for him, but they weren't going to get a 1st or anything close to it.
Eagles sure beat down the door for Bradford.
Different situations - if Bradford played well for the Rams they would have re-signed him, if Foles played well for the Eagles they wouldn't have re-signed him.
If we're talking 100% speculation, I'll throw out that Bradford was going to get cut before the start of training camp.

 
JimmyJabroni said:
@MikeClayNFL: Complete list of players Sam Bradford has targeted 20+ times in his career. Not even fair. #Eagles http://t.co/NDngNfA5Ee
And now you have to wonder who he's going to throw to now? I'm not sure the Eagles will have anyone better than those guys.
Well, Jordan Matthews for one. And now this draft seems set up for a 1st round WR at #20. Given Kelly's love of big WRs and 'smartest guy in the room' mentality, Dorial Green-Beckham would make perfect sense as his target. Great tools but with off field issues, seems like the kind of guy others would shy away from but Kelly would see as a challenge / opportunity.

Plus there are a number of low cost guys in free agency like Stevie Johnson who could fill a role for this team immediately.

 
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JimmyJabroni said:
@MikeClayNFL: Complete list of players Sam Bradford has targeted 20+ times in his career. Not even fair. #Eagles http://t.co/NDngNfA5Ee
And now you have to wonder who he's going to throw to now? I'm not sure the Eagles will have anyone better than those guys.
With FA in day 2 and the draft a while away there's still time to improve there. Jordan Matthews showed promise and had the 2nd best season by a WR in the slot in the nfl. Sproles would also be a nice safety valve.

The OL is a pretty drastic improvement as well

 
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BroadwayG said:
LBH said:
I guess I'm in the minority but I love Bradford on the Eagles and think Philly got the better of the trade
I agree, he's the perfect dual threat option second only to maybe Russell Wilson.
Whose legs is he going to use to run with? Why would any team take a chance on a guy who has missed 25 of the last 32 games to knee injuries to run the option?

 
Bigboy10182000 said:
@MikeClayNFL: Complete list of players Sam Bradford has targeted 20+ times in his career. Not even fair. #Eagles http://t.co/NDngNfA5Ee
:goodposting:

This is what is known as context... along with historically bad luck with team injuries, very bad receiver drop rate, and crap playcalling. Sometimes (often?) stats show haw bad a player really is... and sometimes those stats show how bad a player's situation is.

 
I can see Bradford (and the farm) in Tennessee when all is said and done in exchange for the right to Mariota at #2.

 
Greg Cosell Breaks Down Bradford-Foles Trade

http://www.insidestl.com/insideSTLcom/RadioShows/FeatureInterviews/tabid/339/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/16813/Greg-Cosell-Breaks-Down-Bradford-Foles-Trade-on-The-Press-Box.aspx

NFL Films' Greg Cosell has worked is one of the more knowledgeable men when it comes to the X's and O's of football.

Cosell, who's a regular guest on The Hollywood Casino Press Box during the football season, joined Frank Cusumano on Tuesday to discuss the Rams' and Eagles' blockbuster trade involving Sam Bradford and Nick Foles.

We've transcribed the main talking points of the segment. You can listen to the whole thing below:

[SIZE=small]First thought when you heard about the trade:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=small]"Quite honestly I couldn't believe that the Eagles would make the deal, that was my first thought. Especially when I heard the Rams are also getting a second-round draft choice."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=small]What are the Rams getting with Foles?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=small]"I think ultimately Foles is a complementary quarterback. I think he's a quarterback that needs the run game, that needs the offense to work effectively. They'll have a good defense. I think Foles can be a quality NFL starting quarterback. He throws the ball well. He's a big kid. He has some movement within the pocket. The key with Nick Foles is you have to define things for him. The longer he stays in the pocket, the worse he is and his arm strength declines...because he tends to throw off balance. So things need to be defined for him so the ball comes out. But I think there's talent there. Frank Cignetti is a detailed, disciplined guy and he's going to make sure that Nick Foles is going to do things the right way. I think that's important for Nick. I think he needs to be coached hard with the fundamentals because I think the talent level is pretty hard."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=small]On Foles' accuracy and toughness:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=small]"I think the accuracy is good. It obviously declines the more there's people around him. I think that's a critical thing that needs to be worked on. I don't think there's a problem with his toughness at all, he's a tough kid. He took shots in Philly. Some of them were his own doing, because he was a little slow getting the ball out. But I don't think there's any issue at all with toughness."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=small]What do you think Chip Kelly was thinking with this move?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=small]"The only thing you can think of is Pat Shurmur was in St. Louis...He's the OC in Philly and has a lot to say about the offense. Sam Bradford was a No. 1 pick. He's still viewed as a talented thrower. I think he's a little gun shy in the pocket right now and that's a problem in this league."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=small]More on Bradford:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=small]"I don't think his accuracy is what it was coming out of college. So I think you're dealing with a QB that has a lot to prove. They're starting to sell Sam Bradford jerseys on their website and that doesn't strike me as something you would do if you were ready to flip him. Sam Bradford (ran Kelly's) offense in college. He's played in the speed tempo offense and has been very efficient running it."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=small]If you could have Sam Bradford or Nick Foles running your offense in 2015, who would it be?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=small]"Nick Foles."[/SIZE]

 
Insein said:
Junior McSpiffy said:
Bigboy10182000 said:
Last 2 posts have helped me

Thank you both
That's what you get when you listen to the indifferent media that just delves on the surface instead of people who are vested in the team. It's just like I'm sure you could tell me a lot about Foles that I wouldn't get as an Eagles outsider. Because right now, I feel we took a step backward on the field. Cap room is good and will help the team, but just the QB position alone.... I feel we saw Foles's ceiling and he won't get close to that again. We'll let him walk at the end of the season and we'll be back to square one with the QB.
So his ceiling was Hall of Fame level play. Yea wouldn't want to be stuck with that.
Because everyone lives at their ceiling, right? Explain 2014. As a Rams fan, I want to see both sides of what we're getting from a fan who watches the Eagles more closely than I do.

 
Greg Cosell Breaks Down Bradford-Foles Trade

http://www.insidestl.com/insideSTLcom/RadioShows/FeatureInterviews/tabid/339/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/16813/Greg-Cosell-Breaks-Down-Bradford-Foles-Trade-on-The-Press-Box.aspx

[SIZE=small]What do you think Chip Kelly was thinking with this move?[/SIZE]

"The only thing you can think of is Pat Shurmur was in St. Louis...He's the OC in Philly and has a lot to say about the offense. Sam Bradford was a No. 1 pick. He's still viewed as a talented thrower. I think he's a little gun shy in the pocket right now and that's a problem in this league."
I don't think the Eagles are moving-up for Mariota. They have their QB in Bradford.

Shurmur wanted him badly when he was HC of the Browns.

Heard this morning that they were working hard on the deal for two weeks and hammered out every detail.

Make no mistake about this deal, Sam Bradford is Chip Kelly and Pat Shurmur's guy in Philly.

 
Greg Cosell Breaks Down Bradford-Foles Trade

http://www.insidestl.com/insideSTLcom/RadioShows/FeatureInterviews/tabid/339/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/16813/Greg-Cosell-Breaks-Down-Bradford-Foles-Trade-on-The-Press-Box.aspx

[SIZE=small]What do you think Chip Kelly was thinking with this move?[/SIZE]

"The only thing you can think of is Pat Shurmur was in St. Louis...He's the OC in Philly and has a lot to say about the offense. Sam Bradford was a No. 1 pick. He's still viewed as a talented thrower. I think he's a little gun shy in the pocket right now and that's a problem in this league."
I don't think the Eagles are moving-up for Mariota. They have their QB in Bradford.

Shurmur wanted him badly when he was HC of the Browns.

Heard this morning that they were working hard on the deal for two weeks and hammered out every detail.

Make no mistake about this deal, Sam Bradford is Chip Kelly and Pat Shurmur's guy in Philly.
Bradford is a china doll

 


Adam Schefter@AdamSchefter 22s22 seconds ago

Eagles HC Chip Kelly said his team was offered a first-round pick this morning for his QB Sam Bradford.
He is an idiot for not taking itHe is just lying
It was more a smart ### answer to the reporters.
@LesBowen: He would never say who offered that would create lifelong enemy RT @Root_em_in: @LesBowen ask him a follow up about the 1st rd pick, Les

 
Greg Cosell Breaks Down Bradford-Foles Trade

http://www.insidestl.com/insideSTLcom/RadioShows/FeatureInterviews/tabid/339/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/16813/Greg-Cosell-Breaks-Down-Bradford-Foles-Trade-on-The-Press-Box.aspx

[SIZE=small]What do you think Chip Kelly was thinking with this move?[/SIZE]

"The only thing you can think of is Pat Shurmur was in St. Louis...He's the OC in Philly and has a lot to say about the offense. Sam Bradford was a No. 1 pick. He's still viewed as a talented thrower. I think he's a little gun shy in the pocket right now and that's a problem in this league."
I don't think the Eagles are moving-up for Mariota. They have their QB in Bradford.

Shurmur wanted him badly when he was HC of the Browns.

Heard this morning that they were working hard on the deal for two weeks and hammered out every detail.

Make no mistake about this deal, Sam Bradford is Chip Kelly and Pat Shurmur's guy in Philly.
I have no doubt about that (if his knee doesn't explode like a supernova).

The GM that allegedly offered a first for Bradford this morning has been identified.

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMjAyOTMxMjA3Nl5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwMTMwNjQ4MDE@._V1_SX640_SY720_.jpg

 
Insein said:
Junior McSpiffy said:
Bigboy10182000 said:
Last 2 posts have helped me

Thank you both
That's what you get when you listen to the indifferent media that just delves on the surface instead of people who are vested in the team. It's just like I'm sure you could tell me a lot about Foles that I wouldn't get as an Eagles outsider. Because right now, I feel we took a step backward on the field. Cap room is good and will help the team, but just the QB position alone.... I feel we saw Foles's ceiling and he won't get close to that again. We'll let him walk at the end of the season and we'll be back to square one with the QB.
So his ceiling was Hall of Fame level play. Yea wouldn't want to be stuck with that.
Because everyone lives at their ceiling, right? Explain 2014. As a Rams fan, I want to see both sides of what we're getting from a fan who watches the Eagles more closely than I do.
Nick has flaws. Every QB does but when you look at that season, you can see the potential of an upper tier starting NFL QB. When he's not under pressure within 2 seconds, he makes quick decisions to he right WRs most of he time. In 2013 he either hit his guy or took the sack. He needed to work on taking a few more chances or throwing it away. So 2014, that's what the coaches worked on. He took a few more chances and gained a few more picks. But he didn't throw that many bad picks. Most were over 40 yards. Despite his supposed falling back to earth he still managed 2100 yards with 13-10 TD to int in 8 games after sustaining an injury in week 3.

So with STL defense and a solid running game, I do think Foles can have the Rams competing for that division. Rams proved they can beat Seattle on defense alone. Foles will be an enormous upgrade to what was there last year at QB.

I see 10-6, 11-5 without analyzing their schedule.

 
@MikeClayNFL: Is a first-round pick (likely not an early one) really THAT much more than a 2nd, 4th, and Foles for a QB needy team? Answer: No!

 
Insein said:
Junior McSpiffy said:
Bigboy10182000 said:
Last 2 posts have helped me

Thank you both
That's what you get when you listen to the indifferent media that just delves on the surface instead of people who are vested in the team. It's just like I'm sure you could tell me a lot about Foles that I wouldn't get as an Eagles outsider. Because right now, I feel we took a step backward on the field. Cap room is good and will help the team, but just the QB position alone.... I feel we saw Foles's ceiling and he won't get close to that again. We'll let him walk at the end of the season and we'll be back to square one with the QB.
So his ceiling was Hall of Fame level play. Yea wouldn't want to be stuck with that.
Because everyone lives at their ceiling, right? Explain 2014. As a Rams fan, I want to see both sides of what we're getting from a fan who watches the Eagles more closely than I do.
Nick has flaws. Every QB does but when you look at that season, you can see the potential of an upper tier starting NFL QB. When he's not under pressure within 2 seconds, he makes quick decisions to he right WRs most of he time. In 2013 he either hit his guy or took the sack. He needed to work on taking a few more chances or throwing it away. So 2014, that's what the coaches worked on. He took a few more chances and gained a few more picks. But he didn't throw that many bad picks. Most were over 40 yards. Despite his supposed falling back to earth he still managed 2100 yards with 13-10 TD to int in 8 games after sustaining an injury in week 3.

So with STL defense and a solid running game, I do think Foles can have the Rams competing for that division. Rams proved they can beat Seattle on defense alone. Foles will be an enormous upgrade to what was there last year at QB.

I see 10-6, 11-5 without analyzing their schedule.
But I would say that with Bradford playing at his ceiling, they could be a win or two more than that. Their floor is more stable with Foles since Bradford is that major injury risk, but with the team having been built around Bradford while he was sidelined, we never got to see his potential. I am still convinced that the Eagles got the better QB in the deal. What the Rams got was cap relief and draft capital. The Eagles got a guy who their coach believes can be the kind of trigger man they need for his specialized offense. He'd better be because they have been trying to make Bradford feel at home by stripping their team of any proven offense weapons.

 
Insein said:
Junior McSpiffy said:
Bigboy10182000 said:
Last 2 posts have helped me

Thank you both
That's what you get when you listen to the indifferent media that just delves on the surface instead of people who are vested in the team. It's just like I'm sure you could tell me a lot about Foles that I wouldn't get as an Eagles outsider. Because right now, I feel we took a step backward on the field. Cap room is good and will help the team, but just the QB position alone.... I feel we saw Foles's ceiling and he won't get close to that again. We'll let him walk at the end of the season and we'll be back to square one with the QB.
So his ceiling was Hall of Fame level play. Yea wouldn't want to be stuck with that.
Because everyone lives at their ceiling, right? Explain 2014. As a Rams fan, I want to see both sides of what we're getting from a fan who watches the Eagles more closely than I do.
Nick has flaws. Every QB does but when you look at that season, you can see the potential of an upper tier starting NFL QB. When he's not under pressure within 2 seconds, he makes quick decisions to he right WRs most of he time. In 2013 he either hit his guy or took the sack. He needed to work on taking a few more chances or throwing it away. So 2014, that's what the coaches worked on. He took a few more chances and gained a few more picks. But he didn't throw that many bad picks. Most were over 40 yards. Despite his supposed falling back to earth he still managed 2100 yards with 13-10 TD to int in 8 games after sustaining an injury in week 3.

So with STL defense and a solid running game, I do think Foles can have the Rams competing for that division. Rams proved they can beat Seattle on defense alone. Foles will be an enormous upgrade to what was there last year at QB.

I see 10-6, 11-5 without analyzing their schedule.
I hope you are right.

Regardless of what we think about Foles, imo there is a good chance he is not widely viewed around the league as an upper tier starting QB (or even one with the potential to become one), and that the 2013 season is seen as an outlier, and he is a product of Kelly's system. Otherwise, he probably would have fetched more in a trade. Though that said, I can see how Kelly was more concerned with paying what he needed to secure Bradford if he identified him as their QB, rather than maximizing the trade value of Foles by shopping him league-wide, which renders this kind of analysis murky at best.

 
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Adam Schefter@AdamSchefter 22s22 seconds ago

Eagles HC Chip Kelly said his team was offered a first-round pick this morning for his QB Sam Bradford.
He is an idiot for not taking itHe is just lying
It was more a smart ### answer to the reporters.
@LesBowen: He would never say who offered that would create lifelong enemy RT @Root_em_in: @LesBowen ask him a follow up about the 1st rd pick, Les
I don't see a team outside the top 10 that really needs a QB. I guess the Browns could be crazy enough.

 
Adam Schefter@AdamSchefter 22s22 seconds ago

Eagles HC Chip Kelly said his team was offered a first-round pick this morning for his QB Sam Bradford.
He is an idiot for not taking itHe is just lying
It was more a smart ### answer to the reporters.
@LesBowen: He would never say who offered that would create lifelong enemy RT @Root_em_in: @LesBowen ask him a follow up about the 1st rd pick, Les
I don't see a team outside the top 10 that really needs a QB. I guess the Browns could be crazy enough.
Rumor is that Chip Kelly offered a 1st round draft pick to himself but turned it down insisting on a #2 draft pick instead.

 
@MikeClayNFL: Is a first-round pick (likely not an early one) really THAT much more than a 2nd, 4th, and Foles for a QB needy team? Answer: No!
Misleading analogy. The 2 is for next year, so call it a 3 this year, plus they do get a 5th back. Does a 3, a 4 and Foles get you a 1 and a 5 back? I doubt it.

Not saying I like the deal at all, but let's be fair about the value difference.

 
Greg Cosell Breaks Down Bradford-Foles Trade
I did not need to read any of his analysis to know which one he would prefer. 95 % of the time he is going to be touting the tallest QB with the strongest arm. Last year, he was intrigued by Logan Thomas and this year he is intrigued by Brandon Bridge.

 
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Junior McSpiffy said:
Here's a sidenote on this though: if this stripped-down version of the Eagles offense works out, I won't draft an offensive player who comes out of Oregon for the next three years. It would show that the success is the product of the system and it can work with lesser talent on offense. Translation: offense loaded with system players who may not be built for a conventional NFL team.
Who was the last offensive player out of Oregon you drafted?

 
Junior McSpiffy said:
Here's a sidenote on this though: if this stripped-down version of the Eagles offense works out, I won't draft an offensive player who comes out of Oregon for the next three years. It would show that the success is the product of the system and it can work with lesser talent on offense. Translation: offense loaded with system players who may not be built for a conventional NFL team.
Who was the last offensive player out of Oregon you drafted?
LaGarrette Blount. And just about every draft, I find myself staring Jonathan Stewart's name and pray that someone saves me from ever having to draft him.

 
ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 15m15 minutes ago

Rams coach Jeff Fisher tells PFT Live that he was offered a low first-round pick for Sam Bradford, but Fisher wanted Nick Foles.
This begs the question: which winning team offered a pick for Bradford? or it could have been the Brown's 19th pick that they got from the Bills.
ARZ screams as the answer here.Edit, makes even more sense that they wouldn't want to trade him within the division.

 
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Arizona is a good answer but something about it would have leaked from the organization by now. I have to believe it was the Browns offering the 19 to both the Rams and then Philly.

 

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