What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

San Francisco 49ers - link to new 2023 thread in latest post (2 Viewers)

If he doesn't get traded and starts week 1, do the 49'ers really want to waste another year of Lance's rookie contract?

 
JohnnyU said:
If he doesn't get traded and starts week 1, do the 49'ers really want to waste another year of Lance's rookie contract?
Click to expand...
If Lance isn't ready to play at the NFL level is it really wasting the year?

 
Gally said:
If Lance isn't ready to play at the NFL level is it really wasting the year?
Click to expand...


I don't think so.  They havent win a SB since the 94 season. I think they're gladly sit Lance for another year if they knew they'd get even one SB win with him at QB at some point.

Myself, I think Lance starts this season 100%. This roster is super bowl ready, and while there will be growing pains, I don't see him being a step down from Jimmy.

 
I don't remember where I saw it but somewhere there was an analysis of where Jimmy likes to throw the ball (over the middle) versus Lance who prefers to throw to the outside, using the pff heat maps. I was reminded of it when I was watching some youtube scouting of Malik Willis and showing the same heat map/zone. 

Hopefully I'm not butchering this analysis but the supposition from the scouts on Willis is that he trusts his arm strength more than he trusts his reads in more complex situations. Throwing sideline fades when you have a rocket cannon is safe. When your arm is a wet noodle but you can read a defense and anticipate, the middle of the field becomes a more natural place to seek out an advantage. So it's an entirely different playbook in terms of where the QB is confident he can deliver a safe ball. 

At the end of the day, getting Lance the reps against smart NFL defensive minds besides his own D is going to have to happen for him to mature and learn. And he should be getting ALL the 1st team reps in training camp. Maybe it's a downgrade from Jimmy for some portion of the games but there's no way they can all arrive at the promised land together if they don't rip this band-aid off at some point soon. 

 
Bummer to lose Arden Key, but figured the price tag would be too high.  Jags making it rain right now

Good to see Hyder back with coach K.  

 
wgoldsph said:
I mean... It's not ideal.  But from everything I've read about Jimmy he's a total pro and seems like the kind of guy that is team first enough to handle being a grossly overpaid backup if sf can't get a package for him they really want.  It's not like he's Jay Cutler or something
Click to expand...
I suspect Jimmy wouldn't agitate behind the scenes. but if/when Lance has a couple stinker games, are guys at the tail end of their primes like Kittle and T Williams going to be content playing for the long run when they know the backup is capable of taking them on a deep playoff run?  I think it’s more the other guys in the locker room that would be a problem. 

 
thecatch said:
I suspect Jimmy wouldn't agitate behind the scenes. but if/when Lance has a couple stinker games, are guys at the tail end of their primes like Kittle and T Williams going to be content playing for the long run when they know the backup is capable of taking them on a deep playoff run?  I think it’s more the other guys in the locker room that would be a problem. 
Click to expand...
I agree if Lance isn't ready, but wasting his rookie contract isn't a wise idea either, especially with what they gave up.

 
JohnnyU said:
I agree if Lance isn't ready, but wasting his rookie contract isn't a wise idea either, especially with what they gave up.
Click to expand...
Right...I'm saying they should cut Jimmy even if they can't trade him.  I think Jimmy's presence would be a locker room distraction. 

 
thecatch said:
I suspect Jimmy wouldn't agitate behind the scenes. but if/when Lance has a couple stinker games, are guys at the tail end of their primes like Kittle and T Williams going to be content playing for the long run when they know the backup is capable of taking them on a deep playoff run?  I think it’s more the other guys in the locker room that would be a problem. 
Click to expand...
Yeah how will Lance ever match those vaunted playoff stats that Jimmy has put up

 
https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/157475-deebo-samuel-not-expected-participate-49ers-offseason-program/

Deebo Samuel expected to skip 49ers’ offseason program

The San Francisco 49ers report to their offseason program on Tuesday. However, don't expect Deebo Samuel to be there. According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, the fourth-year wide receiver is not expected to participate. At least, he won't take part in any on-field activities.

Of course, this comes as a surprise to no one. Samuel seeks a contract extension and probably won't take part in any voluntary offseason activities until the situation is settled. So the question is: Will Samuel participate in the team's mandatory minicamp from June 13 through 15 if he remains under his current contract? It's the last offseason activity before the team breaks until training camp at the end of July.

Samuel has recently scrubbed his Instagram account of all things 49ers-related. It's a tactic that is often ineffective in contract negotiations but does generate chatter among the fanbase, and this instance has done precisely that. In fact, things have gotten so bad that Samuel claims to have received death threats and racist remarks from fans regarding the contract situation.

San Francisco made Samuel a second-round draft pick out of South Carolina in 2019. He had a breakout season in 2021, amassing 1,770 total yards and 14 total touchdowns for the 49ers in 2021, setting an NFL record for the most single-season rushing touchdowns by a wide receiver with eight.

Samuel's 1,405 receiving yards in 2021 were a career-high, and the first time the wideout had surpassed 1,000 receiving yards in his three NFL seasons.

 
I still think a deal will get done, but not til after at least one more big WR deal gets done. 49ers want to do be first, Deebo wants to wait to see what AJ Brown or DK's contract looks like IMO.

If he does in fact want out, we will get a nice haul for him.

Also, F him if he wants to leave. I wont be wishing him well with his new team.

 
Wingnut said:
I still think a deal will get done, but not til after at least one more big WR deal gets done. 49ers want to do be first, Deebo wants to wait to see what AJ Brown or DK's contract looks like IMO.

If he does in fact want out, we will get a nice haul for him.

Also, F him if he wants to leave. I wont be wishing him well with his new team.
Click to expand...
They really need to lock him down.
 

malcovich

”Pay that man his money.”

/malcovich

 
I would think something similar to the 4/104 deal that Diggs just signed would be about right for Deebo. It would also give him a chance for a decent 3rd contract at 30. 

Of the upcoming contract extension WRs, the only one I could argue over Deebo is AJ Brown. Guys like McLaurin and Metcalf should be a level cheaper. 

 
Welp, it's offifcial. He has asked to be traded.

F### you Deebo, I hope you get traded to Detroit!

https://twitter.com/JeffDarlington/status/1516819376225333259?t=5DJwfgTnw_BIotwCRJdaVQ&s=19

Breaking News: I just spoke to wide receiver Deebo Samuel — and he told me that he has asked the 49ers to trade him. 

He did not want to discuss specific reasons behind his request, but he has indeed let the 49ers know his desire to leave the organization. More to come.

Schefter:

The trade request came in more than a week ago, and the #49ers have been aware of Deebo’s feelings for a while. This is why there have been no talks.

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1516820089965793282?t=Vnq1ydj7NiHJswtGzTnijQ&s=19

 
Last edited by a moderator:
These WRs man. Apparently they all want to play for different teams now? Bummed about this. Loved watching him play and thought he’d be good for Lance. Hopefully we get a good return.

 
farfromforgotten said:
These WRs man. Apparently they all want to play for different teams now? Bummed about this. Loved watching him play and thought he’d be good for Lance. Hopefully we get a good return.
Click to expand...


Zero loyalty. Shanahan made him a household name and this is how he acts.  Pathetic.

Rapaport on twitter

Money is not at the root of the issues for Deebo Samuel, otherwise that could be fixed with a big offer. But there are also issues with how he’s used.

How he's used is what made him a star. If he goes anywhere else and is just a WR, he will be average, like he was for us before last season. 

The more I think about it, the more I don't think he's worth Diggs/Adams money.

Good riddance, Tyshun. Youre not worth what you think you're worth. 

 
As I said in the Deebo topic, deal him to the Jets for a top 10 pick. Take Garrett Wilson. Done deal. 

Jets were trying to get a top WR. This seems like a win-win. Plus the Shanny/Saleh connection could facilitate this. 

 
I don’t get the “it’s how he was used that made him a star” talk. Wasn’t he like top 3 in yardage as a pure WR this year before they started using him as a part time RB? I don’t blame him for not wanting to do that, if that’s what his actual issue is. It would certainly shorten his career if he keeps getting 7-10 carries a game. 

 
This is bad news no matter how it is viewed! We need those YAC with basically a rookie QB to boost confidence. He should be a coveted trade piece at least, but nonetheless, he is special and will be missed. He can go to the house at anytime with the ball in his hands. 

Offseason is turning into a disaster and we should’ve at least had one ring in the last 3 years. I ####### hate Jimmy Garoppolo! Trade him to the Seahawks please! 

 
thecatch said:
I don’t get the “it’s how he was used that made him a star” talk. Wasn’t he like top 3 in yardage as a pure WR this year before they started using him as a part time RB? 
Click to expand...


I didn't realize he had 1400 receiving yards, but he only had 6 receiving TDs, and 8 rushing TDs. In his forst 2 seasons combined he had 7 total TDs.

So a breakout year for sure, but without the rushing numbers, he's not the all around weapon he has turned into.

I just don't get why so many players refuse to play out their contracts. Might as well just pay every player year by year since contracts don't mean anything.

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
As I said in the Deebo topic, deal him to the Jets for a top 10 pick. Take Garrett Wilson. Done deal. 

Jets were trying to get a top WR. This seems like a win-win. Plus the Shanny/Saleh connection could facilitate this. 
Click to expand...
San Francisco can keep him. If we need, we'll take Wilson at four, unless we think we have an EDGE in mind that will be there. No reason to take on Deebo, give him a new contract, and lose first-round picks over it. Now, if we give up a second-round pick, that might be something. But no way on a first. I know it's the San Francisco thread and subsequent things go along with that, but no thank you. Only for a second. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
rockaction said:
San Francisco can keep him. If we need, we'll take Wilson at four, unless we think we have an EDGE in mind that will be there. No reason to take on Deebo, give him a new contract, and lose first-round picks over it. Now, if we give up a second-round pick, that might be something. But no way on a first. I know it's the San Francisco thread and subsequent things go along with that, but no thank you. Only for a second. 
Click to expand...
Wilson at 4 would be a terrible pick when they can very likely take him at 10, or trade down and still get him later. 

 
From what I'm hearing, SF has zero interest in trading him.

He could hold out and not play this season and walk away an unrestricted free agent going into 2023 and we'd get nothing for him. 

But do we risk that scenario playing out? Is Deebo even considering that if he doesn't get traded? Would he risk sitting out a year, ala LeVeon Bell?

What a mess

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Wilson at 4 would be a terrible pick when they can very likely take him at 10, or trade down and still get him later. 
Click to expand...
Wilson is mocked to the Jets at four in enough mocks to where it is plausible. I've seen him mocked there several times. How will the receivers shake out? Will there be a few in the top ten? I don't really know for sure, but I've seen enough of the mocks to know that you might have to be in the top ten if you want your preference of receiver. 

 
rockaction said:
Wilson is mocked to the Jets at four in enough mocks to where it is plausible. I've seen him mocked there several times. How will the receivers shake out? Will there be a few in the top ten? I don't really know for sure, but I've seen enough of the mocks to know that you might have to be in the top ten if you want your preference of receiver. 
Click to expand...
I’ve also seen an awful lot of mocks, and something like 70% of the ones I’ve looked at have the Jets taking a safety at 4, which I also think would be a terrible pick. 

I seriously doubt a WR is taken in the top 7, but I guess it’s possible. :shrug:  

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
I’ve also seen an awful lot of mocks, and something like 70% of the ones I’ve looked at have the Jets taking a safety at 4, which I also think would be a terrible pick. 
Click to expand...
That's pretty much kaput in all the ones I've seen in the past week or two. Actually, that's been kaput since the combine. I never see the Jets taking Hamilton or Pitre or any of those guys. 

 
The Jets have a lot of needs. Paying a half-RB who doesn't want to play RB anymore is a disaster if they do it. Don't. That's what this squabble is all about. Usage. 

He doesn't want to be a running back, apparently. That's my first guess, and others have opined the same; though one said with Lance maybe Deebo felt he was being phased out and didn't want to be. That strikes me as odd, though. These guys know what's up with running backs, second and third contracts, and longevity. 

If they keep sending him on sweeps that body won't handle it for a full year, even though he's jacked. You just can't take hits running at that speed (it gets up to like a special teams head of steam into the secondary) all the time. It doesn't work. 

That's what I think the quibbling is about. He was very effective and seemingly efficient as a receiver in the beginning of the year last year, not only for fantasy purposes but also NFL standards. It seems like he wants that role (a receiver almost exclusively) going forward. 

 
rockaction said:
The Jets have a lot of needs. Paying a half-RB who doesn't want to play RB anymore is a disaster if they do it. Don't. That's what this squabble is all about. Usage. 

He doesn't want to be a running back, apparently. That's my first guess, and others have opined the same; though one said with Lance maybe Deebo felt he was being phased out and didn't want to be. That strikes me as odd, though. These guys know what's up with running backs, second and third contracts, and longevity. 

If they keep sending him on sweeps that body won't handle it for a full year, even though he's jacked. You just can't take hits running at that speed (it gets up to like a special teams head of steam into the secondary) all the time. It doesn't work. 

That's what I think the quibbling is about. He was very effective and seemingly efficient as a receiver in the beginning of the year last year, not only for fantasy purposes but also NFL standards. It seems like he wants that role (a receiver almost exclusively) going forward. 
Click to expand...
From the local angle, you’re close but not quite on point. 

Was listening to sports radio while making deliveries, and the quibble is about Deebo wanting to be paid as “the highest paid non-QB in the league”.

From SF’s standpoint, that’s a non-starter.

Camp Deebo’s position is that he came out & carried the offense when the Niners were limited at RB. He didn’t mind doing that, but he believes he should be paid handsomely for that role. 

The problem with that is that the 49ers will likely get deeper at RB, and won’t need to run him as much.

But yeah - make no mistake, the quibble is that the 49ers do not want to make him the highest paid non-QB in the league. 

 
Wingnut said:
From what I'm hearing, SF has zero interest in trading him.

He could hold out and not play this season and walk away an unrestricted free agent going into 2023 and we'd get nothing for him. 

But do we risk that scenario playing out? Is Deebo even considering that if he doesn't get traded? Would he risk sitting out a year, ala LeVeon Bell?

What a mess
Click to expand...
Maybe not, appears this season would not accrue if he held out per the new CBA

https://twitter.com/spotrac/status/1516833186495582213

"If the #49ers do not honor Deebo Samuel’s trade request this offseason, they’ll hold some leverage with him come training camp per the CBA. Not reporting to mandatory camp means a loss of an accrued season, meaning Samuel would be facing restricted free agency after 2022."

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Lombardi on twitter:

Another odd component of this: 49ers have never had a problem with Deebo Samuel in the locker room. At least a semblance of such issues typically accompanies trade demands. But Samuel literally led 49ers out to Super Gremlin. Hung out with Shanahan. Just a strange devolution.

The only thing that seems obvious is that we're missing key pieces of information about Samuel's back-and-forth with the 49ers. Somewhere along the line, it obviously got personal. But that doesn't mean it will stay that way for perpetuity.

The clear mystery to solve: What exactly upset Samuel to bring us to this point? Because therein likely lies the best way to potentially fix the rift.

 
thecatch said:
I don’t get the “it’s how he was used that made him a star” talk. Wasn’t he like top 3 in yardage as a pure WR this year before they started using him as a part time RB? I don’t blame him for not wanting to do that, if that’s what his actual issue is. It would certainly shorten his career if he keeps getting 7-10 carries a game. 
Click to expand...
if this is the issue then for the first time today I think i would side with him here.  there was an article this past season about guys like he and Cordarelle re: how different it is to be hit by DB's instead of LB's through a season. i hate that these players are not honoring their contracts like many of you stated over the board today, but this feels a little different from this angle.

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
The 49ers will likely get deeper at RB, and won’t need to run him as much.

But yeah - make no mistake, the quibble is that the 49ers do not want to make him the highest paid non-QB in the league.
Click to expand...


Yeah, we used him as an RB as much as we did last season because of injuries. If Mostert doesn't get hurt, we probqbly only see Deebo run jet sweeps here and there. This season we should have a stable of healthy RBs (knock on wood), so his role as a RB should go way down.

I don't think its all about money. Some of it is, but for some reason he's pounding the table about the way he's being used. So if he goes somewhere else, does he think they're not gonna take advantage of his skillset? We all know what hes capable of, I feel he's gonna be a wideback in some capacity going forward, no matter where he plays.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
More chatter on twitter 

https://twitter.com/JosinaAnderson?t=JcPZjR5RLqmq_NoFcdL6Gw&s=09

Josina Anderson:

When requesting a trade, you always garner feedback from the market. Regarding the #Chiefs, a league source told me while Samuel is regarded as highly talented, the team is not actively pursing him currently, focused on Draft.

Meanwhile, my understanding is there's feeling currently within the #Jets org that WR Deebo Samuel won't be moved at all, unless San Francisco gets a king's ransom, per league source.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jeff Darlington said Deebo told him he wants out of Sam Francisco. He said he wants to keep the reasons private for now, but he just wants out and wants to play somewhere else.

I wonder if this is fixable.

Edit: Schefter said it could be that he just wants out of California and closer to home in South Carolina. Also, state income taxes might be a factor.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Wingnut said:
Jeff Darlington said Deebo told him he wants out of Sam Francisco. He said he wants to keep the reasons private for now, but he just wants out and wants to play somewhere else.

I wonder if this is fixable.

Edit: Schefter said it could be that he just wants out of California and closer to home in South Carolina. Also, state income taxes might be a factor.
Click to expand...
Sounds like Miami, Tampa, Houston or Dallas may be on speed dial.

 
Wingnut said:
Lombardi on twitter:

The clear mystery to solve: What exactly upset Samuel to bring us to this point? Because therein likely lies the best way to potentially fix the rift.
Click to expand...
Let me pull out the MoP tea leaves for everyone...

-May 2nd is coming into focus and at the stroke of midnight all teams with draft selections from 2019 have a choice...

#1-Continue playing Deebo on his rookie deal knowing he has outplayed many others in this Draft class. 

I'd like to submit this page from PFR to highlight why some of these players from 2019 want to get PAID,  PFR-Draft 2019. and if you click the column marked wAV as you read across under the Approx Value header, hit that button and you should see Murray listed first and Deebo is #5 overall in terms of value and what he has produced, it's very clear when you see this link I sent. 

-Should the Niners think they can just ask Deebo to play out his final year of a rookie contract with no 2nd contract negotiation ongoing with what he has done for SF on the field since they drafted him? 

#2-They can trade Deebo although he is still going to want his new team to give him a fat juicy extension, $25M+ a year or he likely won't be happy even in a new uniform. 

#3-They can offer him an extension. Maybe they don't have to make him the highest paid WR in the NFL but he's going to ask for it. 

#4-Added after: 2nd Rd pick, #36 overall, there's no 5th year option for SF. If he continued to produce at a high level this year they could simply slap the tag on him. 

Paparazzi Pizza reports about Deebo being a bad teammate or locker room presence and his very guarded "personal reasons"...give me a BREAK! Is he suffering from mental illness the way Calvin Ridley did it to Atlanta? I told everyone that Ridley situation was sticky and going to encourage others to cry out "Personal" or "mental Health" reasons why they need to be in another city but ultimately it's about the almighty $$$ and getting paid. 

Obviously his agent has gotten pushback from SF that they have no intentions of making Deebo feel special before that May 2nd deadline and they have opted to play hard ball or demand a trade, it's part of contract negotiations. 

I wouldn't read up on jock strap sniffer reports by writers fishing or allowing themselves to report dirty laundry for both the 49'ers AND Deebo, works both ways. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Say he stays with the team - they refuse to trade him. Whether or not he plays, after this season the 49ers can use the non exclusive tag on him, and if they decide not to match any offer he signs and he leaves, they would get 2 first round compensatory picks, no? 

If that's the case then I see no reason for them to trade him. He can sit or play, but we'll get two 1st round picks after this season. Why settle for less right now in any trade offer? Then again, maybe theyll decide to trade him before the draft so they can draft a replacement WR for Lance to develop with instead of waiting til 2023.

Here's the non exclusive tag explained, copied from here

Non-exclusive franchise tag: The non-exclusive franchise tag is the most commonly used method to keep unrestricted free agents from hitting the market. The one-year tender offer pays a player the average of the top five salaries at the respective position over the last five years, or 120 percent of his previous salary — depending on whichever is greater. In the meantime, the player can negotiate with other teams but the club applying the tag has the right to match any offer or receive two first-round draft picks as compensation in case the player leaves.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

T
Travdogg's post FA 2 round mock draft
Replies
39
Views
3K
rockaction
rockaction
T
My final 2022 mock draft, 3 rounds
2
Replies
56
Views
6K
travdogg
T
T
travdogg's 3 round mock draft
Replies
23
Views
2K
Deamon
D

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Back
Top