Scoring for Passing (1 Viewer)

[sushinsky4tsar]

Answers don't need to be what your league does.   Please identify the options that you would use if you're in  charge of a startup.    Please add any commentary for additional features that you think belong (points for incompletions, completions, first downs, etc.)

 

[Pigskin Fanatic]

my only input here based on the options is the setup should start with 1/20 + 4pt TD or 1/25 + 6pt TD, otherwise there is an imbalance of the QB position to the other positions assuming 1/10 + 6pt TD. except if the league is superflex, in which case the setup is not as relevant and anything goes. same with adding additional negative for pick 6, that's a hefty penalty for the position and not a fan. I see the lure though.

 

[titusbramble]

Does it matter? All these options do are to change the balance between rushing QBs and primarily pocket passers. As long as the QBs don't get so few points that there's no differentiation between them and you wait forever as you do a kicker, or that they get so many that they become overpowered in a superflex/2QB league, it's mostly irrelevant

 

[sushinsky4tsar]

Does it matter? 

Does anything in fantasy football really matter?      But yeah, it matters!!   Using 6 points as the base for any rushing/receiving TD, what do you think is the ideal setting that gets the balance right?

My impression is that 4 points for passing TDs is most common.   But I don't know what that split actually looks like in the fantasy community in 2022, but I think there's more than a few leagues that have made passing TDs equal to 6 points / same as rushing/receiving.   

I think there's probably more variation on yardage, but I think 1 per 25 yds or 1 per 20 is probably the most common. 

 

[titusbramble]

Does anything in fantasy football really matter?      But yeah, it matters!!   Using 6 points as the base for any rushing/receiving TD, what do you think is the ideal setting that gets the balance right

Without knowing the number of starting spots, flex spots, whether you have superflex or not, if you have PPR, TE premium, etc etc, the answer is "it depends". As long as you are in the right ballpark, it doesn't really matter when comparing QB to other positions, all it might do is to lean you more towards one type of QB at any given spot

 

[sushinsky4tsar]

Most of my leagues have been 4 point passing TDs for decades.    I remember first playing in the 90's when it was 3 points per passing TD, but that might have just been specific to that league. 

More context, I'm trying to devise the most logical way to go from a 1QB league to a Super-Flex.   To make it viable in a 14-team league, I think that my league needs to make the non-QB SF position (basically the best R/W/T that's currently riding pine) closer to the expected forecast for a mid-tier QB2.    I think there are a number of ways to go.   Without getting into too much detail, one option would actually involve increasing overall scoring for QBs, while another would decrease scoring.  

Decreasing QB scoring would be the simplest and most direct option.   I think the low lying fruit from our league settings might be to change our deduction for interceptions from -2 points to -4 points.   In the actual NFL, throwing a pick is a bigger negative play than throwing a TD.   NFL teams are (ideally) looking for at least 30 passing TDs from their QB, but a QB that throws 20 picks is unlikely to last very long (unless he's throwing 45TDs along the way).   

Hence, I think it might be sensible for an interception to fully offset a passing TD (at the very minimum).   We currently deduct -2 points for interceptions and another -2 if it goes for a Pick Six.   I know that such an idea would not be popular with some people in the league, but I think it's somewhat justified.   In my view, worth the turmoil if it allows us to jump from 1QB to SF.

 

[TheWinz]

You can adjust the scoring to make QB's more or less important, as well as rewarding the passing or running QB's.  For example, I just joined a league with the following scoring:
Completions (1 pt per)
Incompletions (-1 pt per)
Passing yards (.04 pts per yard)
Passing TD's (6 pts per)
INT's (-2 pts per)
Sacks (-1 pt per)
40+ yard completion (2 pts per)
40+ yard passing TD (3 pts per)
Pick 6 (-6 pts per)
Fumbles lost (-2 pts per)
2 point conversion (2 pts per)
Offensive fumble return TD (6 pts per)
Rushing yards (.1 per yard)
Rushing TD's (6 pts per)
40+ yard run (4 pts per)
40+ yard TD run (10 pts per)
Receptions (1 pt per)
Receiving yards (.1 per yard)
Receiving TD's (6 pts per)
40+ yard reception (4 pts per)
40+ yard TD reception (10 pts per)

Using the above, I plugged in last year's numbers...
Brady - 42.1 PPG
Herbert - 39.3 PPG
Mahomes - 38.2 PPG
Allen - 37.4 PPG

I will not be drafting a running QB in this league.

 

[sushinsky4tsar]

^^^  Yeah, making passing TDs equal to 6 points is a BIG deal that definitely gives a giant boost to passing QBs.

Personally, I'm not a fan.   If I'm a league that thinks running QBs have become overpowered, I prefer a more conservative approach of something like going from .04 per passing yard to .05.

Even in a 1 QB league, getting a stud QB on his career year (think Mahomes / Manning on their 50 TD seasons), absolutely breaks the league on 6 points per passing TD.   If you find that 50 TD QB, and the rest of the "good" QB1s are huddled around 35 TDs, that's pretty much the equivalent difference of a RB1 that scores 25 TDs in a season -vs- 10 TDs  (which is giant difference).

I know there are many fantasy players that firmly believe that all TDs should be scored equal regardless of passing/rushing/receiving, but I'm not one of them.   I think it's very logical for passing TDs to count for less than receiving/rushing, but I get the argument for all being equal.   To each their own. 

 

[titusbramble]

^^^  Yeah, making passing TDs equal to 6 points is a BIG deal that definitely gives a giant boost to passing QBs

If you luckbox upon someone having an absurd 50 TD season, maybe, but you have to consider that a baseline for even a primarily rushing QB that is a reasonable starter in fantasy will be in the mid 20's in terms of passing TDs over the course of a season. Compared to someone in the 35-40 TD range, that's maybe the equivalent of a receiver catching an additional five yard pass per game in PPR, so meh

 

[Gally]

I rhink int's should be minus half the points for a passi g TD (4 pts for TD vs -2 pts for int)

I also prefer threshold scoring.  We use 150 yds for 3 pts and basically 1 pt per 25 yds after that with the exception between 200 and 250.  That is so common that all of that is worth 5 pts total.

 

[sushinsky4tsar]

If you luckbox upon someone having an absurd 50 TD season, maybe, but you have to consider that a baseline for even a primarily rushing QB that is a reasonable starter in fantasy will be in the mid 20's in terms of passing TDs over the course of a season. Compared to someone in the 35-40 TD range, that's maybe the equivalent of a receiver catching an additional five yard pass per game in PPR, so meh

• Team A has a pocket QB that throws 38 TDs.  Team B has a pocket QB that throws 28 TDs.
  
• Team B has an RB1 that scores 22 rushing/receiving TDs.  Team A has an RB1 that scores 12 rushing/receiving TDs.
  
• Yardage/receptions more or less a wash where Team A's QB racks up more in the air than Team B.   Team B's RB racks up more total yardage and receptions than Team A.
  

Which player had the more historically significant season?

 

[sushinsky4tsar]

You can adjust the scoring to make QB's more or less important, as well as rewarding the passing or running QB's.  For example, I just joined a league with the following scoring:
Completions (1 pt per)
Incompletions (-1 pt per)
Passing yards (.04 pts per yard)

This part strikes me as a bit overpowered towards completion %.   

12/20  320 yards = 16/20 120 yards  

To be fair, the 320 yards would probably be unlucky not to find any of the explosive play bonuses.

 

[TheWinz]

12/20  320 yards

I wonder if any QB in NFL history has ever had over 300 yards on 12 completions, without a TD or a 40 yard completion?

 

[sushinsky4tsar]

I wonder if any QB in NFL history has ever had over 300 yards on 12 completions, without a TD or a 40 yard completion?

In NFL history? I'm sure it has.   But I agree, 26.7 average on 12 completions, a couple of those are very likely to go over 40 for the explosive play bonus.   Probably a poor example because it's a pornographic stat line, but that's kind of what I'm getting at.  It's an absurdly productive game for the gunslinger QB and the scoring still relies on 40+ bonus scoring to gain separation over the game manger.  The gunslinger most likely gains an advantage on passing TD(s), but you can't always count on those.  The gunslinger is also going to be more vulnerable to sack and interception deductions. 

To put it another way, QB 1 completes 13/20,   QB2 completes 11/20.   I don't think the completion prowess of QB1 should entitle them to throw 2 more interceptions than QB2.   

It also sets up the potential for big fantasy scores in high volume passing games (often blowouts), provided that the QB being blown out can execute at well over 50% in garbage time.   The year Bortles was tearing up the second half of NFL games with garbage yardage and garbage TDs, this league also would have been subject to garbage completions points, nearly doubling up the points he was getting on the TD.

I'm nitpicking on all of this.   It seems like you probably have the sense that the scoring is a little wonky.  Allen being 5 points below Brady last season, probably being the best indicator.   These are just things I would be pushing back with if I was discussing league settings with this commish during the startup.

 

[wgoldsph]

You can adjust the scoring to make QB's more or less important, as well as rewarding the passing or running QB's.  For example, I just joined a league with the following scoring:
Completions (1 pt per)
Incompletions (-1 pt per)
Passing yards (.04 pts per yard)
Passing TD's (6 pts per)
INT's (-2 pts per)
Sacks (-1 pt per)
40+ yard completion (2 pts per)
40+ yard passing TD (3 pts per)
Pick 6 (-6 pts per)
Fumbles lost (-2 pts per)
2 point conversion (2 pts per)
Offensive fumble return TD (6 pts per)
Rushing yards (.1 per yard)
Rushing TD's (6 pts per)
40+ yard run (4 pts per)
40+ yard TD run (10 pts per)
Receptions (1 pt per)
Receiving yards (.1 per yard)
Receiving TD's (6 pts per)
40+ yard reception (4 pts per)
40+ yard TD reception (10 pts per)

Using the above, I plugged in last year's numbers...
Brady - 42.1 PPG
Herbert - 39.3 PPG
Mahomes - 38.2 PPG
Allen - 37.4 PPG

I will not be drafting a running QB in this league.

So two completions in no man's land for 6 yards is worth more than a 2 point conversion that swings the game?  Not a fan.

 

[TheWinz]

I'm nitpicking on all of this.   It seems like you probably have the sense that the scoring is a little wonky.  Allen being 5 points below Brady last season, probably being the best indicator.   These are just things I would be pushing back with if I was discussing league settings with this commish during the startup.

Actually, I plan on doing the opposite.  I am going to keep my mouth shut, and chuckle to myself as the running QB's go flying off the draft board.

 

[sushinsky4tsar]

Receptions (1 pt per)
Receiving yards (.1 per yard)
Receiving TD's (6 pts per)
40+ yard reception (4 pts per)
40+ yard TD reception (10 pts per)

Yahoo uses the same language and these categories are not mutually exclusive.   For example, if I were to plug these setting into yahoo, a 40-yard TD reception would be calculated as:

• reception = 1 point
  
• receiving yards = 4 points
  
• receiving TD = 6 points
  
• 40+ reception (additional bonus) = 4 points
  
• 40+ TD (additional bonus) = 10 points
  
• TOTAL WR SCORE FOR PLAY = 25 points 
  

Perhaps you're pulling these settings from a different platform where there's not double-dipping.  Perhaps it scores it as: 4+4+10=18 points , or maybe the 40+ is mutually exclusive and it's as little as 1+4+10=15 points. 

Personally, I like having explosive play bonuses in the settings.  I like rewarding a little something extra for big plays that move the needle in the actual game.   I like throwing a bone to some of those homerun hitting WRs that might not be getting the volume of slot guys devouring PPR points on unspectacular 7-yard routes (which is also why I refuse to play anything more than 0.5 PPR).   

With that said, this particular explosive bonus setup is a little rich for me, at least if it's rewarding anything more than 15 points to a WR on a 40-yard TD reception.   

Example:  I could be tied in my game, and my WR hauls in a 38-yard TD reception good for 10.8 points.   My opponent's WR immediately answers with a 42-yard TD reception.   If that's awarded 15.2 points, the 4 point advantage is a bit over-powered for my liking, but I suppose it adds a lot of drama when they hit that magic barrier on a big play.   But if that 42-yarder was good for 18.2 or God forbid, 25.2 in yahoo scoring, I can't tell you how aggravated I would be that my opponent just left me in the dust over dualing TDs bombs where his went for 4 more yards.