Senior Bowl (1 Viewer)

[harrycarey]

www.nfldraftcountdown.com has full coverage including weigh-ins and practice reports.. check it out

 

[cstu]

This stood out:• Cedric Humes, Virginia Tech 6002 227 * Looked big and strong.I can seem him moving up if he times better than the 4.58 he is listed at. Seems like a good Denver back.

 

[harrycarey]

He said that Jerious Norwood RB MSU stood out in practice and i saw him listed as running a 4.38 at one site

 

[Chaos Commish]

I'm waiting for an email report from a friend who is there, but I have a feeling he's out drinking. I'll post his reports here all week.

From a phone conversation:

Offensive lineman:

D'Brickashaw Ferguson looks the part. He looks awesome, fast, athletic, powerful, with long strong arms. He had a war today with Kiwanuka and Tamba Hali and got the best of what was described as close battles. Brick can be bullrushed. Jonathan Scott dominated, made it look easy. He was laughing and having a good time and pretty much untouchable. He didn't face the competition D'Brick did (different teams), but he toyed with Dumervil, Lawson and others. O'Callaghan didn't look as pretty as the other two, but no one could touch him either (the story of his unheralded career, btw). He was just too strong and massive for any of the DEs and OLBs. Trueblood surprisingly looked thin and agile. He has been losing weight and concentrating on his 40 and other measureable stuff, but he wasn't nearly as impressive as the others. Darryl Tapp beat him for what would have been a sack. Davin Joseph was more impressive than Lutui or Setterstrom on the interior, but they all looked like solid guards. Max Jean-Gilles did not impress. He had his hands full and looked very sluggish. Unfortunately, he said the same for Marcus McNeill. I accused him of preferring the smaller athletic guys and he reminded me of his high praise for O'Callaghan. He regrets taking a leak while Eric Winston was doing his one on ones. He did say others were impressed and Winston got some oohs and ahs.

Quarterbacks:

There's Jay Cutler, then there's everybody else. The hype is real. He looked superb. None of the others looked like the next level is a reality. Whitehurst was decent, second best, but it was a huge gap from 1 to 2. Hackney, Shockley, Croyle and Robinson looked very bad. So bad he said it made it hard to scout the WRs. He emphasized that this was one short day of practice after the weigh ins, so nothing he saw is a finalized opinion, with this exception-- Michael Robinson should convert to WR tomorrow. He's sure of that.

Running Backs:

DeAngelo looked slower than expected, but still very good. Sweet moves, very good hands and very very strong for his size. He had excellent balance and displayed the vision everyone has seen who's watched him. Jerious Norwood stole the show though. Extremely fast, and great hands. Burst through tacklers several times and would have broke several plays for long runs if they weren't blowing the whistle. He expects Norwood to clock the best time of any back at the combine and be the back to skyrocket. He's in love. Believe me, he was gushing about this kid who never had a line in college, and still carried the load and made great plays for years and yada yada. I asked him about Harrison, Bell, Hall, Addai and all the running backs, but he just wanted to talk about Norwood. "They all paled in comparison," He said. "Bell and Hall are too slow, Harrison is over his head and Addai does not hit the hole. DeAngelo and Norwood look excellent. Norwood is the better player. Period. Okay bye."

Wide Receivers: Looked great with Cutler throwing to them and awful otherwise. He did say the need for physically strong receivers really exaggerates itself when all the DBs are pretty solid. So he was impressed with the big tall guys and singled out Hank Baskett and Maurice Stovall. I have been high on Baskett so I was happy to hear this, but I have been low on Stovall, who he said was the best looking WR there. But, he emphasized that bad passes favored the guys who could use their size to make plays, and some of the burners were getting open, but not getting good throws to work with. Baskett is supposed to have trouble getting off the jam, but he has some big guns on him and manhandled the DBs who jammed him.

Tight Ends: There's Marcedes Lewis and there's everybody else. He started gushing about him too, but since I have seen every UCLA game for a few years, I cut him off. He's a Georgia guy and told me Pope is not even close to being in the vicinity of Marcedes' league. I said, but Pope isn't there. He said it didn't matter, Lewis is amazing and has it all, and looks like a star. He is bigger stronger faster and more athletic than Pope, yada yada. Okay bye.

I'm waiting for his report to write this up better for the blog, and I'll include comments on the defensive players then. BUT, he did say DeMeco Ryans stock will fall if he doesn't look better.

Btw, I'm making a little fun of my source, but he is a great guy, paid to have an opinion about these things and very kind to report back to me. I was supposed to be there so he could show me the ropes.

 

[Yenrub]

 

[ren hoek]

Awesome dude. Does this guy you know have anything to say about Vernon Davis? Are you trying to become a scout or something? Very interesting and informative read there.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Awesome dude. Does this guy you know have anything to say about Vernon Davis? Are you trying to become a scout or something? Very interesting and informative read there.

I would love to be a scout in my retirement!!

Nothing about Vernon Davis because he is a declared underclassman and won't be there. I just re-read what I typed very quickly and I covered everyone he mentioned (on offense) except...

Derek Hagan-- had trouble getting off the line of scrimmage, and did not look like a first rounder. Seemed distracted by everything and will hopefully get it going tomorrow.

Daryn Colledge-- Very solid. He owned Tapp today like he owned Kiwanuka in the Boise Bowl. Does not have D'Brick's frame.

I'm one of the people around here who has questioned D'Brick's frame. Um, I was wrong. He's a beast, broad shoulders, long arms, big hands. He'll need time to develop, but he's a keeper. It was Colledge who was lean and ripped and seemed to be much closer to maxing his frame.

 

[ren hoek]

Awesome dude. Does this guy you know have anything to say about Vernon Davis? Are you trying to become a scout or something? Very interesting and informative read there.

I would love to be a scout in my retirement!!

Ahh. I read this:

Btw, I'm making a little fun of my source, but he is a great guy, paid to have an opinion about these things and very kind to report back to me. I was supposed to be there so he could show me the ropes.

- and figured you were trying to learn how to scout or something. Sounds like a pretty awesome connection you have there either way.

Nothing about Vernon Davis because he is a declared underclassman and won't be there.

Davis is the only one that I've seen any highlight footage of, and I'd feel very confident saying he'll end up being one of the top 11 picks in the draft. I really hope his stock falls and the Bengals have a chance at him late in the first, he seems like an incredible player.

 

[diesel7982]

Quarterbacks:There's Jay Cutler, then there's everybody else. The hype is real. He looked superb. None of the others looked like the next level is a reality. Whitehurst was decent, second best, but it was a huge gap from 1 to 2. Hackney, Shockley, Croyle and Robinson looked very bad. So bad he said it made it hard to scout the WRs. He emphasized that this was one short day of practice after the weigh ins, so nothing he saw is a finalized opinion, with this exception-- Michael Robinson should convert to WR tomorrow. He's sure of that.

interesting.Other eyewitness reports I read today had Culter showing a live arm but horrible accuracy.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Quarterbacks:

There's Jay Cutler, then there's everybody else. The hype is real. He looked superb. None of the others looked like the next level is a reality. Whitehurst was decent, second best, but it was a huge gap from 1 to 2. Hackney, Shockley, Croyle and Robinson looked very bad. So bad he said it made it hard to scout the WRs. He emphasized that this was one short day of practice after the weigh ins, so nothing he saw is a finalized opinion, with this exception-- Michael Robinson should convert to WR tomorrow. He's sure of that.

interesting.Other eyewitness reports I read today had Culter showing a live arm but horrible accuracy.

I can't find any of these eyewitness reports to which you refer. I have found a half dozen reports praising Cutler's day. This is about as much detail as I have found:

QB Jay Cutler is a legit game manager with upside. Had more than enough arm on the 15-20 yard outs and a smooth deep ball. Delivered short and intermediate dump/swings with accuracy. Not alot of wasted motion. Footwork good. Threaded the needle to Klopfenstein on a 25 yard go during 11-on-11's. No real bad mistakes - a very nice practice. Carries himself well and when he walks in the room everyone knows he's there - charisma.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Mike Mayock, NFL Network, Day 1 Senior Bowl Practice Standouts:QB Jay Cutler ~ VanderbiltOT D'Brickshaw Ferguson ~ VirginiaCB Ty Hill ~ ClemsonWR Maurice Stovall ~ Notre DameCB Anwar Phillips ~ Penn State

 

[Finatic]

Quarterbacks:

There's Jay Cutler, then there's everybody else. The hype is real. He looked superb. None of the others looked like the next level is a reality. Whitehurst was decent, second best, but it was a huge gap from 1 to 2. Hackney, Shockley, Croyle and Robinson looked very bad. So bad he said it made it hard to scout the WRs. He emphasized that this was one short day of practice after the weigh ins, so nothing he saw is a finalized opinion, with this exception-- Michael Robinson should convert to WR tomorrow. He's sure of that.

interesting.Other eyewitness reports I read today had Culter showing a live arm but horrible accuracy.

I can't find any of these eyewitness reports to which you refer. I have found a half dozen reports praising Cutler's day. This is about as much detail as I have found:

QB Jay Cutler is a legit game manager with upside. Had more than enough arm on the 15-20 yard outs and a smooth deep ball. Delivered short and intermediate dump/swings with accuracy. Not alot of wasted motion. Footwork good. Threaded the needle to Klopfenstein on a 25 yard go during 11-on-11's. No real bad mistakes - a very nice practice. Carries himself well and when he walks in the room everyone knows he's there - charisma.

Draft Scout had his performance as inconsistant as far as accuracy was concerned.Though they did highlight his play at QB as head and shoulders above the other guys at the position FWIW..........

 

[Chaos Commish]

- and figured you were trying to learn how to scout or something. Sounds like a pretty awesome connection you have there either way.

This connection is not an NFL Scout, should I be making the wrong impression. He is a track coach who I have known for a long long time. He was a fine running back in his own right back in the day (early 70s), but he blew his knees out as a college freshman and became a track guy. He consults for these guys every winter. This year I got him all pumped up to go to the Senior Bowl (this is his first) and I had to cancel. He readily admits he will be over exhuberant about a good performer and overly negative about a bad one. I know he has a sharp eye, and will report honestly if not too enthusiastically. Still no email.

BUT, I am revisiting this thread because I found this to be an interesting article:

D'Brickashaw Ferguson has been talking to the Jets ALOT.

 

[ILoveMyLions]

Thanks Chaos Commish. Any reports on defense?

 

[boubucarow]

Mayock also rates Cutler as the top quarterback in the draft. He did say his only issue was accuracy while hedging that criticism with the excitement defense.

 

[jester]

My buddies and I are here every year. Great time, crappy stadium. I'm not an expert, I'm in advertising by trade, so don't take this as "Gospel". Just one mans opinion.Temp was around 75 yesterday. Field is still damp but it's suppose to be clearing and warm today. Weather looks good for rest of week. Here are my views so far.QB's:Cuttler- So far he's the "star" of the show. I've been impressed with his abilities so far. Not sure what these so called scouts have been watching but I've seen him be very accurate both short and long as well and having a quick release, fast feet and he seems to be able to make quick, smart decisions. Maybe, his only drawback is overall speed but he'll be used in pocket passing game.Shockley & Croyle looked horrible. Makes them look like little league. Rest of QB's looked decent.RB's: DeAngelo- Looks very very very fast, breaks well. great hands. Will be a big play guy- one day... Doesn't seem to play "smart" though.Norwood- WOW Gives you the feeling that if given even a slight hole he will run until the goal posts stop him. It's amazing I didn't see more of this guy in his career. In my opinion will make great strides in a run-first offense.Addai- Did this guy even want to show up for this event? I've seen this guy in person before and he better step it up if he wants to impress here. Looks like he's not even "trying"All the rest of the back just falls into line as adequate. Some have great spots but not overly consistent.WR's:I'll agree with what I read somewhere else that they were not impressive unless Cutler was at the helm. No big standouts yet, more reps today with better throws will solve that. Stoval- Looks decent. Best Wr on field, imo, but that may be by default. His size benefits him right now.Baskett- looks strong, needs to break away quicker. Not using his strength smartly.Skyler Green- Good hands. Good Decisions. Needs to react quicker thoughI would hate say bad about some WR's I saw just with that showing but unless they improve their play look for Avant, Aromoshodu, & Sinorice Moss to be taking classes to get their real estate or insurance licenses soonThat's about all right now. I'm not really one to focus on individual defense but Ty Hill has been one to stand out for me. I'll post more tomorrow. Would say tonight but I know I won't

 

[Chaos Commish]

Thanks Chaos Commish. Any reports on defense?

Nothing fresh, but since he hasn't reported in, I'll share his thoughts from the phone call yesterday.DBs-- There's Tye Hill, then there's everybody else. He said Hill looked phenomenally quick, and very physical. He made a crazy interception on a play where he looked beat and closed in a flash before making an insane catch. He got the loudest oohs and ahs of the day. One scout noted that Hill appeared to bait the QB. Anwar Philips made some nice plays, but the impression was that other DBs would have made the same plays in the same situation. No other DBs separated themselves, but he thought Will Blackmon made everything look easy and looked like a more polished cover man than all but Hill.

LBs-- There's Chad Greenway, then you guessed it, there's everybody else. He wasn't just the biggest LB there, but he was the fastest, the quickest, the strongest at the point of contact, the best in pursuit, and the best in coverage. He was gushing again. After Greenway he singled out D'Qwell Jackson as a leader, very strong, and a coach on the field. He said Jerome Harrison made two nice runs behind Joseph and O'Callaghan and Jackson got fired up and started barking instructions to the DL-- good instructions that the coaches praised. After them he said Spencer Havner made a huge hit and looked excellent in pass coverage. DeMeco Ryans looked no better than the rest of the LBs, who didn't impress him.

DL-- There's Gabe Watson, then there's everybody else. He really talked like this. A lot of sites are reporting how impressive Watson was. I guess he was the star of the first day. He said none of the DEs impressed him (mabye Tapp and Kiwanuka), but the OTs are just all very good. Brodrick Bunkley and Dusty Dvoracek were both very hard to handle on the inside, and he thinks they'll both start as rookies somewhere, but Watson was by far the best player on either D-Line. He did say I am dead wrong about Kiwi's quickness, and I must have saw him playing on a bad ankle he had this year (true, but I saw him healthy in his bowl game too). Kiwi has as a good a first step as any DE there, but needs to shorten his stride and work on his footwork.

I asked him if he could take 7 players to training camp, who would he want.

1. Gabe Watson

2. Jerious Norwood

3. Chad Greenway

4. DeAngelo Williams

5. Marcedes Lewis

6. D'Brickashaw Ferguson

7. Brodrick Bunkley/Dusty Dvoracek

"No Cutler?"

"Number 8."

eta his top 7. He said either Bunkley or Dvoracek, not both, and he listed D'Brick.

 

[Kleck.]

Much appreciated Chaos and jester.

 

[ILoveMyLions]

Thanks Chaos Commish.  Any reports on defense?

Nothing fresh, but since he hasn't reported in, I'll share his thoughts from the phone call yesterday.DBs-- There's Tye Hill, then there's everybody else. He said Hill looked phenomenally quick, and very physical. He made a crazy interception on a play where he looked beat and closed in a flash before making an insane catch. He got the loudest oohs and ahs of the day. One scout noted that Hill appeared to bait the QB. Anwar Philips made some nice plays, but the impression was that other DBs would have made the same plays in the same situation. No other DBs separated themselves, but he thought Will Blackmon made everything look easy and looked like a more polished cover man than all but Hill.

LBs-- There's Chad Greenway, then you guessed it, there's everybody else. He wasn't just the biggest LB there, but he was the fastest, the quickest, the strongest at the point of contact, the best in pursuit, and the best in coverage. He was gushing again. After Greenway he singled out D'Qwell Jackson as a leader, very strong, and a coach on the field. He said Jerome Harrison made two nice runs behind Joseph and O'Callaghan and Jackson got fired up and started barking instructions to the DL-- good instructions that the coaches praised. After them he said Spencer Havner made a huge hit and looked excellent in pass coverage. DeMeco Ryans looked no better than the rest of the LBs, who didn't impress him.

DL-- There's Gabe Watson, then there's everybody else. He really talked like this. A lot of sites are reporting how impressive Watson was. I guess he was the star of the first day. He said none of the DEs impressed him (mabye Tapp and Kiwanuka), but the OTs are just all very good. Brodrick Bunkley and Dusty Dvoracek were both very hard to handle on the inside, and he thinks they'll both start as rookies somewhere, but Watson was by far the best player on either D-Line. He did say I am dead wrong about Kiwi's quickness, and I must have saw him playing on a bad ankle he had this year (true, but I saw him healthy in his bowl game too). Kiwi has as a good a first step as any DE there, but needs to shorten his stride and work on his footwork.

I asked him if he could take 7 players to training camp, who would he want.

1. Gabe Watson

2. Jerious Norwood

3. Chad Greenway

4. DeAngelo Williams

5. Marcedes Lewis

6. D'Brickashaw Ferguson

7. Brodrick Bunkley/Dusty Dvoracek

"No Cutler?"

"Number 8."

eta his top 7. He said either Bunkley or Dvoracek, not both, and he listed D'Brick.

Thanks...any further updates would be appreciated.

 

[harrycarey]

I'm really glad that Norwood is making a name for himself because it was fun to watch him while I was at Mississippi State. Speed, Vision, and Blitz Pickup were the main things that impressed me watching him.

 

[jester]

Just a quick something before I leave the RV again. I'm running late for the South Practice so I'll cut it quick (good their in the stadium today though).Travis Wilson-WR-Tulsa.... Under the radar type of player. May surprise everyone. Good, Quick, Hands, Metal. All aspects of game seems huge.D'Brickashaw got planted on his rear by Kiwanuka. Nothing to make him drop on the charts but it was funny. I think the "D" guys are starting to get that funny feeling...Avant- Dropped more passes today. Oye vey, could be a long week for him.This just in, Michael Robinson sucks.....Gotta go, Girls in big ### dresses just walked by

 

[jurb26]

I asked him if he could take 7 players to training camp, who would he want.

1. Gabe Watson

2. Jerious Norwood

3. Chad Greenway

4. DeAngelo Williams

5. Marcedes Lewis

6. D'Brickashaw Ferguson

7. Brodrick Bunkley/Dusty Dvoracek

"No Cutler?"

"Number 8."

eta his top 7. He said either Bunkley or Dvoracek, not both, and he listed D'Brick.

So then, is Cutler's rise/hype building due to lack of other/better options or is he really as good as we are all hearing? This list would indicate that it's a lack of other/better options IMO. Or maybe it's just that the other guys are that good.

 

[ren hoek]

Thanks for the updates CC and Jester. Keep them coming.

 

[Bloom]

Travis Wilson-WR-Tulsa.... Under the radar type of player. May surprise everyone. Good, Quick, Hands, Metal. All aspects of game seems huge.

that's oklahoma, btw. im very high on wilson among the WRs in that 10-20 range. He was banged up this year, and overshadowed by mark clayton and co in the previous years. If you look at the performance of mark bradley, mark clayton, and brandon jones this year, its seems too strong to be a coincidence that all 3 were sooners. Jones and Bradley were probably the two rookie WRs that were farthest ahead of schedule before their injuries. Its conjecture, but i have to think that the WR/offensive coaches at oklahoma are doing something right. Wilson has the athleticism, technique, and hands to make it in the NFL. He will be a steal if he lasts til the 2nd day.

 

[Yenrub]

Can you give me an update on how a the of NC State players are doing?Manny Lawson – DETJ Williams – TEMarcus Hudson – DBTIA

 

[Tick]

Travis Wilson-WR-Tulsa.... Under the radar type of player. May surprise everyone. Good, Quick, Hands, Metal. All aspects of game seems huge.

that's oklahoma, btw. im very high on wilson among the WRs in that 10-20 range. He was banged up this year, and overshadowed by mark clayton and co in the previous years. If you look at the performance of mark bradley, mark clayton, and brandon jones this year, its seems too strong to be a coincidence that all 3 were sooners. Jones and Bradley were probably the two rookie WRs that were farthest ahead of schedule before their injuries. Its conjecture, but i have to think that the WR/offensive coaches at oklahoma are doing something right. Wilson has the athleticism, technique, and hands to make it in the NFL. He will be a steal if he lasts til the 2nd day.

Check out his stats from last season when Clayton, Bradley, and Jones were still there with Wilson - Wilson was the #2 guy in that group.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Can you give me an update on how a the of NC State players are doing?

Manny Lawson – DE

TJ Williams – TE

Marcus Hudson – DB

TIA

The only mention of Hudson that I know of is he missed the weigh in.TJ Williams just received high praise for explosion and finishing in run blocking, but he got smoked in pass blocking by Thomas Howard.

Lawson had a tough day yesterday against solid OTs, but he is supposedley one of the most impressive physical specimans there.

Not much help, and I've been very interested in Lawson.

 

[Chaos Commish]

I asked him if he could take 7 players to training camp, who would he want.

1. Gabe Watson

2. Jerious Norwood

3. Chad Greenway

4. DeAngelo Williams

5. Marcedes Lewis

6. D'Brickashaw Ferguson

7. Brodrick Bunkley/Dusty Dvoracek

"No Cutler?"

"Number 8."

eta his top 7. He said either Bunkley or Dvoracek, not both, and he listed D'Brick.

So then, is Cutler's rise/hype building due to lack of other/better options or is he really as good as we are all hearing? This list would indicate that it's a lack of other/better options IMO. Or maybe it's just that the other guys are that good.

Like I said, he's gushing over 4 of those guys. Part of that has to be because three of them have not been given their due this year (Watson, Norwood, Lewis). Then DeAngelo and D'Brick are not disappointing. I think the answer is a little of both. I just watched a good piece of practice (espn coverage which is pretty worthless) and the QBs looked pretty bad trying to throw a 15 yard out to an uncovered WR. In 9 on 7s Cutler did look sharp and the others didn't, but this was a very small sample of observations, and the passes he made were very simple. Fwiw, I've been very high on Cutler all year, but I was more comfortable with him when he was a little under the radar (QB3 rounds 2-3). The Cutler hype smells fishy, but you know what? He could be the best QB in this class.

 

[Bloom]

Can you give me an update on how a the of NC State players are doing?

Manny Lawson – DE

TJ Williams – TE

Marcus Hudson – DB

TIA

The only mention of Hudson that I know of is he missed the weigh in.TJ Williams just received high praise for explosion and finishing in run blocking, but he got smoked in pass blocking by Thomas Howard.

Lawson had a tough day yesterday against solid OTs, but he is supposedley one of the most impressive physical specimans there.

Not much help, and I've been very interested in Lawson.

im thinking soon lawson will be thought of as more of a 3-4 OLB, 4-3 SLB type.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Can you give me an update on how a the of NC State players are doing?

Manny Lawson – DE

TJ Williams – TE

Marcus Hudson – DB

TIA

The only mention of Hudson that I know of is he missed the weigh in.TJ Williams just received high praise for explosion and finishing in run blocking, but he got smoked in pass blocking by Thomas Howard.

Lawson had a tough day yesterday against solid OTs, but he is supposedley one of the most impressive physical specimans there.

Not much help, and I've been very interested in Lawson.

im thinking soon lawson will be thought of as more of a 3-4 OLB, 4-3 SLB type.

Agreed, but I think the conversion could upgrade him substantially like it did for Ware. Lawson has some awesome measureables.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Another observation from tv coverage. I was keen to watch Gabe Watson because of the praise he received yesterday. Well, he blew up another play and the offensive coaches jumped all over Max Jean-Gilles. They were really in his face. On the very next play, Watson shifted to the left and lined up opposite Lutui who crushed him. Watson was as good as pancaked. Hmmm... I'm thinking Jean-Gilles is just too sluggish, and Lutui is so athletic because he is a lot smaller than USC claimed all year. He went from 6-5 370 to 6-3 and a half and 330. I think that's a good thing for Deuce.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Another observation from tv coverage. I was keen to watch Gabe Watson because of the praise he received yesterday. Well, he blew up another play and the offensive coaches jumped all over Max Jean-Gilles. They were really in his face. On the very next play, Watson shifted to the left and lined up opposite Lutui who crushed him. Watson was as good as pancaked. Hmmm... I'm thinking Jean-Gilles is just too sluggish, and Lutui is so athletic because he is a lot smaller than USC claimed all year. He went from 6-5 370 to 6-3 and a half and 330. I think that's a good thing for Deuce.

The above is wrong, sorry. I don't know who Watson blew up before Lutui crushed him, but I know it wasn't Jean-Gilles. He's on the other team. I got a nice report on all four practices finally, but it's in need formatting and editing, and it isn't much different from NFL DraftCountdown's coverage. The praise is stronger and the criticism a little harsher.

The most interesting notes.

Jerome Harrison was the 3rd best back behind Williams and Norwood both days, and he's getting a lot of praise. Coaches used Harrison as an example for the other backs to follow. Harrison pumped up his narrow little chest. Good for him. I sure did pimp him here a few times this year. Terrence Whitehead has good moments where he looks like a stud, and then bad moments where he looks like he barely cares.

Jonathan Scott is quite clearly the second best OT there. He is completely and totally dominant. His results have been better than D'Brick's, but again, he's not facing the same competition. Still, McNeill and Winston are on his team, and Scott is clearly the better tackle. I am not allowed to question this thinking anymore.

Jeremy Trueblood is blowing it, or he just doesn't have it.

The Chargers have been all over the best tight end after every practice?? Today the cornered Marcedes Lewis, who continued to look great.

The Steelers are clearly in love with D'Qwell Jackson. So are the Ravens.

DeMeco Ryans showed why he piles up stats with great play, but he doesn't look as good as a big surprise-- Clint Ingram of Oklahoma?? He was awesome in the Holiday Bowl when the Sooners shut down Oregon State.

Manny Lawson got it going this afternoon and was the most popular player among scouts (his perceived 2nd round value may have alot to do with this). But, he may not be falling to the second round. I was finally right about one of these guys. Lawson is a stud in the making.

My boy Hank Baskett was chewed out, and didn't respond well to the abuse.

Derek Hagan looked terrible again.

Stovall continued to look like the best receiver on either team, unfortunately that's not saying much.

He reiterates Michael Robinson's need to try wr, especially because the others don't look like tough competition. Baskett wasn't the only wr to get an earful.

Star of the day: Chad Greenway.

 

[onionsack]

I’ve noticed some wildly different evaluations of certain players’ performances during the Senior Bowl drills, depending on who’s doing the reporting. Take the case of Jonathan Scott for instance... Here’s the evaluation given by Greg Benjamin of On the Clock Draft:

Jonathan Scott was beat by Kamerion Wimbley every time he faced him in 1-1 drills. He did a good job of run blocking during the scrimmage, but the only time he looked good pass blocking was when he had help from the tight end.

Meanwhile, Scott Wright of NFL Draft Countdown had this to say:

Along the offensive line Jonathan Scott of Texas continued to impress and was the best linemen on the field, which is really saying something considering Eric Winston and Marcus McNeill play on the same team.

Chaos Commish’s connection is even more effusive in his praise:

Jonathan Scott is quite clearly the second best OT there. He is completely and totally dominant. His results have been better than D'Brick's, but again, he's not facing the same competition. Still, McNeill and Winston are on his team, and Scott is clearly the better tackle.

So which is it? “Completely and totally dominant” or “beaten every time unless he got help”.

Benjamin then talks about Derek Hagan, whose performance thus far in practices has been roundly criticized by a number of observers:

Derek Hagan dropped one pass that hit him in the hands and caught a couple others with his body, but made up for it with some outstanding catches later later on. Overall he was probably the most impressive receiver in practice today.

Chaos Commish’s guy put his performance rather more succinctly: “Derek Hagan looked terrible again.”

I understand that due to the very nature of these workouts, scouts won't always be looking at the same thing, but there seems to be an unusually vast discrepancy in interpretations. What gives?

 

[ConstruxBoy]

In my experience, this happens quite a bit. What you really need to do if you want a true picture is watch as much of the practice shows and then the game yourself and look for some of the things that everyone mentioned about a prospect. Once you see for yourself what is happening, you'll learn to trust the opinions of the sources that matched your observations. It's good to hear divergent opinions, but after a year or two of scouring the net for this stuff and then seeing who ends up being more correct, you'll narrow down the sources you trust.

 

[Bloom]

I agree with Construx. This is not rare. I saw two reports in direct contradiction with each other about Martin Nance - one said he only runs at one speed, the other that he showed a great second gear to get separation. Another thing to remember is that its impossible to see every play of a particular player unless you are scouting only a few players. These writers are covering the whole practice and not seeing everything. Its very possible that the players could have displayed their good qualities when writer 1 was watching, and bad qualities when writer 2 was watching.

 

[beto]

One thought I had on Hagan was that he had a real solid year in actual games. He can't be consistently this bad in the whole practice.

 

[WhoDat]

In my experience, this happens quite a bit. What you really need to do if you want a true picture is watch as much of the practice shows and then the game yourself and look for some of the things that everyone mentioned about a prospect. Once you see for yourself what is happening, you'll learn to trust the opinions of the sources that matched your observations. It's good to hear divergent opinions, but after a year or two of scouring the net for this stuff and then seeing who ends up being more correct, you'll narrow down the sources you trust.

I agree with Construx. This is not rare. I saw two reports in direct contradiction with each other about Martin Nance - one said he only runs at one speed, the other that he showed a great second gear to get separation. Another thing to remember is that its impossible to see every play of a particular player unless you are scouting only a few players. These writers are covering the whole practice and not seeing everything. Its very possible that the players could have displayed their good qualities when writer 1 was watching, and bad qualities when writer 2 was watching.

Good advice from each. You need to determine if the person relaying the information is a writer or talent evaluator with a background in the game, which is to say they played or coached at some level and have a deep understanding of football. Also, how current are they with the game. Gil Brandt helped revolutionize scouting and build the Cowboys franchise. However, Gil has lost a step so to speak.

There is a BIG difference....BIG difference...between local beat writer and a guy like Chris Landry. Landry knows his stuff. He is not always right and has gotten more politically correct with his responses/opinions on the radio, which is to say he is clear to not take too firm a stance on certain players, but the guy knows what he is doing.

If someone has never put on a set of pads or last played in junior high or never worked in a major program (NFL or college) in some capacity, in all honesty his ability to breakdown a player's game would be no better than your average NFL fan.

Determine the level of credibility your source might have. If he happens to be the weekend fishwrap hack that also covers deer hunting, cross country and girl's volleyball, then take what he has to say with a grain of salt.

Lastly, if the source is coming from someone that has a direct affiliation with an NFL franchise, realize that person is not going to talk up a player they could potentially value in the draft. If anything, the person will float a bad report. It is that time of year and common.

Some folks do not like him but M. Mayock (spelling) of the NFL Network is fairly sound. Yes, he does have manlove for many players but he knows the drill and has handy information.

 

[onionsack]

One thought I had on Hagan was that he had a real solid year in actual games. He can't be consistently this bad in the whole practice.

It's amazing to me how year in year out actual production on the field gets so cavalierly tossed out the window in favor of 40 times in shorts and a week's worth of drills. Still makes for good reading though.

 

[Family Matters]

Quarterbacks:

There's Jay Cutler, then there's everybody else. The hype is real. He looked superb. None of the others looked like the next level is a reality. Whitehurst was decent, second best, but it was a huge gap from 1 to 2. Hackney, Shockley, Croyle and Robinson looked very bad. So bad he said it made it hard to scout the WRs. He emphasized that this was one short day of practice after the weigh ins, so nothing he saw is a finalized opinion, with this exception-- Michael Robinson should convert to WR tomorrow. He's sure of that.

interesting.Other eyewitness reports I read today had Culter showing a live arm but horrible accuracy.

Bueaty is in the eye of the beholder. Even scouts see things differently. For example, yesterday, Chris Speilman said Shockley looked real good and he was surprised by what he saw.Always remember you need to weigh all the scouts opinions togther and look for yourself as well. This why there's always good late round picks out there because some scouts are influenced before they ever see a guy play in person.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

One thought I had on Hagan was that he had a real solid year in actual games. He can't be consistently this bad in the whole practice.

It's amazing to me how year in year out actual production on the field gets so cavalierly tossed out the window in favor of 40 times in shorts and a week's worth of drills. Still makes for good reading though.

I agree with what you are saying to a point, however I have a word of caution. One great thing about the Senior Bowl is that NFL staffs are coaching the players (Titans - North, 49ers - South) and you get to see how these college players interact with the training and teaching methods of real NFL coaches. So if I see something about a player not reacting well to certain things, I do note it. For example, I've read one or two places (including Chaos Commish's guy in a post above) that Hank Baskett is not taking to the coaching he's getting. That's a red flag. He may have dominated in games all year in college, but like every college player, he has things he needs to work on. If he doesn't react well to NFL-level teaching and "scolding", things aren't going to go too well when Bill Parcells calls him "she". This is especially true in my opinion of players at lesser known NFL producing schools, like say New Mexico.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Obviously, one person cannot watch everything at the same time. I believe Hagan made some nice plays at the end of practice yesterday while my friend in Mobile was watching elsewhere. I cannot imagine Hagan being as bad as he reports.This is a direct quote from my email notes:

Kamerion Wimbley is making a name for himself at the expense of Marcus McNeill. As soon as Scott was replaced my McNeiil, Wimbley had two sacks. He and Haralson are not far behind Lawson. Wimbley is almost as impressive physically. I cannot wait to see them go after D'Brick and Colledge. In this case the game will be important, because it's hard to tell which team has the better pass rushers without seeing them matched up against the lineman. I'm not convinced Kiwi and Hali are better pass rushers than Lawson and Wimbley, although they are stronger in run support.

 

[jester]

Back again. Before I start let me thank the nice representative of Alabama's Finest for allowing me and my buddy to only stand beside the road for 30 minutes last night before deciding to let us go (p.s.- don't worry about the mess you left the trunk in, we've taken care of it). Also, let me again say that I am in no way a writer by trade or in the sports business. Just one fan's observaitons.

I Read further up about differences in opinions. Absolutely true. Even sitting in the stands the guy next to me thought Croyle was the second coming of Steve Young. I would agrre though with Chaos Commish's source on the fact that Derek Hagan is looking aweful. So are a few others but that's besides the point

South practice is over now. Observaitons from yesterday and today...

Seemed to be a day of offense, looked like the defense gave some slack today. I will say that these two "D's" are looking really good. It should be a battle.

Deangelo is looking real good. Still think Norwood is the best back by far though

Addai lookls like he'll make a good full back but he's not following through and tries to cut too often to break a big gain.

Sinorice moss is looking fantastic as far as receivers go. Great hands and feet.

Skyler Green loks good as well. Smart playing, seems to "out think" the opponent.

Baskett is looking pathetic.

Will Allen didn't look good at all on the line

Best two qb's? Cutler and Whitehurst, by far. Not even close

Receivers are starting to look better. They're getting a better feel for the game and the passers now.

Souths offense is looking better so far.

Both defense looks equal

Looking forward to the Norths workout here in a few minutes. I know I don't write a ton here but like I said, I'm no wroter.

BTW. If anyone wants to party tonight that's here in town lets meet up at Wing's Sports Grill tonight. It's on Airport Blvd. not sure of the exact location, we're going to get a map- eventually.

Until tomorrow.

Alabama Highway Patrol Rocks

 

[onionsack]

One thought I had on Hagan was that he had a real solid year in actual games.  He can't be consistently this bad in the whole practice.

It's amazing to me how year in year out actual production on the field gets so cavalierly tossed out the window in favor of 40 times in shorts and a week's worth of drills. Still makes for good reading though.

I agree with what you are saying to a point, however I have a word of caution. One great thing about the Senior Bowl is that NFL staffs are coaching the players (Titans - North, 49ers - South) and you get to see how these college players interact with the training and teaching methods of real NFL coaches. So if I see something about a player not reacting well to certain things, I do note it. For example, I've read one or two places (including Chaos Commish's guy in a post above) that Hank Baskett is not taking to the coaching he's getting. That's a red flag. He may have dominated in games all year in college, but like every college player, he has things he needs to work on. If he doesn't react well to NFL-level teaching and "scolding", things aren't going to go too well when Bill Parcells calls him "she". This is especially true in my opinion of players at lesser known NFL producing schools, like say New Mexico.

Excellent point. And before I forget, a big thumbs up to Jester, Chaos Commish, Bloom et al for helping us all put together the "big picture" on the draft. Well done, lads!

 

[BlueOnion]

Senior Bowl? Is this the game that **** Butkus (from the Butkus - Bruschi thread) is playing in?

 

[boubucarow]

Just by watching the ESPN and NFL Network programs about the practice, I have a couple of thoughts.Scott seemed to be a very good run blocking tackle and an ok pass blocking tackle unless he was blocking versus Wimbley who just ran outside right past him. Scott will have some trouble versus any d-lineman or linebackers that have speed like Wimbley try to run around him to the qb if he has no tightend to help.DT Buckley looked like a redo of Sapp. He explodes across guards and will be fit into the 4-3's that like fast disruptors at DT very well.None of the receivers looked good in short time I could view them. Stovall seem to do the best but he looks like a Burress-redo at best. He is not quick on his feet but uses his body very well to shield d-backs and make good catches. I saw him a lot in college and that is his best play. He didn't seem to be a good route runner but Quinn would often throw to Stovall and let him jump and catch it when Stovall was even standing still.

 

[boubucarow]

I will add the Sinorice Moss could explode and catch but did not seem to be a good route runner at all.The defenders talked up Skyler Green as the toughest to cover. Demetruis Williams impressed Mayock.

 

[Jason Wood]

Kiper chimed in with some thoughts...

DeAngelo Williams = brightest star in the group, great cutback ability, great vision, terrific burst

Others looking good [he termed it "helping themselves"]

RB Joe Addai, LSU

RB Jerious Norwood, Mississippi State
RB Andre Hall, South Florida
WR Demetrius Williams, Oregon
TE Joe Klopfenstein, Colorado
OT D'Brickshaw Ferguson, Virginia
OG Max Jean-Gilles, Georgia
C Nick Mangold, Ohio State
LB Chad Greenway, Iowa
DE Manny Lawson, NC State
DT Jesse Mahelona, Tennessee
DT Orien Harris, Miami
CB Tye Hill, Clemson
CB Kelly Jennings, Miami
S Daniel Bullocks, NebraskaPeople with questions to answer

WR Jason Avant, Michigan [drops, slow]
WR Hank Baskett, New Mexico [not gaining separation]
WR Derek Hagan, ASU [drops]
WR Sinorice Moss, Miami [size an issue for many scouts]
DE Mathias Kiwanuka, BC [still 1st rounder, but needs technique work, owned by Ferguson in practice]
TE Marcedes Lewis, UCLA [elite, but must prove early drops were anomaly]
OT Ryan Cook, New Mexico [technique needs work]
OT Mike Degory, Florida
DT Dusty Dvoracek, Oklahoma

 

[Keys Myaths]

OT D'Brickshaw Ferguson, Virginia

He looks *really* good. Nobody's beating him, and he's owning everyone that they're showing.

 

[Tick]

Kiper chimed in with some thoughts...

People with questions to answer

DT Dusty Dvoracek, Oklahoma

That's the opposite of what we've heard earlier in this thread.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Quick comments from the morning practice (South team).Brodie Croyle was very impressive. It was very windy and he threw very well into the wind. Hackney made some impressive throws after Norv Turner got in his grill. But, overall another disappointing day. Shockley was bad to very bad.Marcedes Lewis looked unstoppable in the red zone, but he didn't always get good passes. Made some nice catches in traffic, accelerated away from linebackers. He's a keeper, and a good candidate to have a great game on Saturday, because the QBs struggle to hit the wide outs. The other tight ends struggled today.Forget the wide receivers. Draft one on the second day. They're all the same on this team. They catch the ball if it's an easy play, otherwise they all blow. Joseph Addai finally showed up. He showed his hands and speed, and was very happy with himself after practice. Norwood still looks very quick and very fast. DeAngelo is starting to look comfortable in the offense. He owns the field. He's getting a lot of praise from everyone. Scouts are very guarded in their comments, but a Redskin scout sitting stands said DeAngelo isn't the best back on the South squad, but the best player offense or defense.Marcus McNeill and Eric Winston stepped it up today, and it is now okay for me to ask if either of them are better than Scott. But they're not, but Winston is extremely impressive. Still no love for big Marcus coming from my man in Mobile. Ryan Cook is being looked at at RT instead of center. He looked good, and shut down Manny Lawson. Jean-Gilles had a very solid day. Some people were praising Andre Hall for his burst up the middle. Jean Gilles made the middle really big. Mike Degory is going to be an excellent center. Too bad Eslinger isn't there for the comparison. Brodrick Bunkley didn't go today, so the interior lineman all looked better.Dumervil finally showed why he gets so many sacks. He's got some wicked moves and blew past McNeill for a sack. He gave all the OLs trouble today. Wimbley is better though and his stock is going up. It's hard to separate the linebackers with the exception of Greenway (who is amazing). Havner looks like the best athlete. Ryans has a cat like quality to him and his strength is very deceptive. He tossed people around today. Howard is fast, but he isn't as impressive as the others, and struggled with his hands. A real sleeper if he finds the right spot in the NFL is Iwuh. He played safety in college and he's working with LBs here, but he hits hard and covers more ground than any of them. Probably too small for the NFL, but his coverage has been great. He was so disappointed in the QBs other than Croyle and the WRs in general, that he has no comment on the DBs, because he lost interest and watched other parts of practice.