Should Kyle Shanahan have kicked off to begin OT of Super Bowl LVIII? (1 Viewer)

[N Zone]

As a Falcons fan, I both could and couldn't believe he did it again. The schadenfreude was palpable though.

The 49ers defense forced 6 turnovers & their offense couldn’t put points on the board.

Shanahan didn’t let a punt glance off of his foot.

Shanahan didn’t not see Jennings on a crossing route for an easy 7+ yards to make it 3rd & short, instead forcing a ball to a well-covered Kittle.

Shanahan didn’t commit a false start at a critical point of the game.

Shanahan got his team in a position to win the game at the end.

At some point you have to give credit to the KC defense for executing, and to Patrick Mahomes for putting in yet another game winning drive. The Chiefs earned this, 100%.

Shanahan didn’t do anything worthy of your shadenfruede, but I’m happy if that was cathartic for you.

Don't get me wrong - I actually think he's a great coach and only very minimally blamed him for the Falcons game and it was much more egregious what he did to us. All he really had to do was run one more time and kick a FG and it's essentially over. I do think they should have run a little more last night but it wasn't bad - 31 rushes to 38 passing attempts. Take a few of those out for scrambles and it's still within 10.

I think he's a pretty brilliant play caller and I really enjoy watching his teams play.

Lastly, I'm really happy he lost.

Yeah. I love Shanny. I think he's the smartest coach in the NFL. But I do think he messed these two situations just the slightest bit. **** happens in games. You should expect WRs to drop balls, fumbles to happen, refs to call holding, and the other team to play well. But you can control your play calling. And to me he forgets to get ahead of the chains when he can close out a game. A 3 yard run on 1st is very valuable. Versus a -8 pass that puts his team in 2 and 18. And that call was all him. KC read it perfectly to their credit. And the WR in a perfect world should have batted the ball down. C'est la vie. All hindsight I guess. But Romo was all over it after halftime so it's not like it wasn;'t obvious to someone that played the game.

Well, if the line doesn’t collapse & Moody doesn’t have his PAT blocked the 49ers probably win in regulation and we aren’t even having this topic, so…

Shanahan had nothing to do with that one either. I’m just sayin.

I disagree. That would force the Chiefs to go for a touchdown which if they get, likely, Chiefs are up 3 instead of tied. Missing the extra point allowed the Chiefs to concede on 4th down to kick to tie.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

As a Falcons fan, I both could and couldn't believe he did it again. The schadenfreude was palpable though.

The 49ers defense forced 6 turnovers & their offense couldn’t put points on the board.

Shanahan didn’t let a punt glance off of his foot.

Shanahan didn’t not see Jennings on a crossing route for an easy 7+ yards to make it 3rd & short, instead forcing a ball to a well-covered Kittle.

Shanahan didn’t commit a false start at a critical point of the game.

Shanahan got his team in a position to win the game at the end.

At some point you have to give credit to the KC defense for executing, and to Patrick Mahomes for putting in yet another game winning drive. The Chiefs earned this, 100%.

Shanahan didn’t do anything worthy of your shadenfruede, but I’m happy if that was cathartic for you.

Don't get me wrong - I actually think he's a great coach and only very minimally blamed him for the Falcons game and it was much more egregious what he did to us. All he really had to do was run one more time and kick a FG and it's essentially over. I do think they should have run a little more last night but it wasn't bad - 31 rushes to 38 passing attempts. Take a few of those out for scrambles and it's still within 10.

I think he's a pretty brilliant play caller and I really enjoy watching his teams play.

Lastly, I'm really happy he lost.

Yeah. I love Shanny. I think he's the smartest coach in the NFL. But I do think he messed these two situations just the slightest bit. **** happens in games. You should expect WRs to drop balls, fumbles to happen, refs to call holding, and the other team to play well. But you can control your play calling. And to me he forgets to get ahead of the chains when he can close out a game. A 3 yard run on 1st is very valuable. Versus a -8 pass that puts his team in 2 and 18. And that call was all him. KC read it perfectly to their credit. And the WR in a perfect world should have batted the ball down. C'est la vie. All hindsight I guess. But Romo was all over it after halftime so it's not like it wasn;'t obvious to someone that played the game.

Well, if the line doesn’t collapse & Moody doesn’t have his PAT blocked the 49ers probably win in regulation and we aren’t even having this topic, so…

Shanahan had nothing to do with that one either. I’m just sayin.

I disagree. That would force the Chiefs to go for a touchdown which if they get, likely, Chiefs are up 3 instead of tied. Missing the extra point allowed the Chiefs to concede on 4th down to kick to tie.

It’s all speculative - and debatable. There’s a chance they don’t get the TD considering the 49ers were doing a great job containing them to that point.

it forces a more difficult task, and under more pressure.

The MPAT definitely changed the game flow. That was my point. And yeah, maybe they do succeed & win in regulation. Or maybe they don’t. Butterfly’s wings in China, and all that.

 

[FairWarning]

Well, considering I wasn't aware of the new OT rules before this game, question....
If both teams were to score, then we enter sudden death right?
If so, then yes, I'd take the ball first.

Same here, but I didn’t factor in the 2-point conversion possibility.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

I guess that if San Fran had scored a TD on their opening drive that they would not have won 25-19 automatically.
I was under the impression that when a team drives down for a TD on the opening drive of OT, game over
I also thought overtime was 10 minute periods after about a decade where I would routinely ask in game threads, "When did they got to 10 minute OT periods?"

Event he players don't know what the Overtime Rules are
Wish the NFL would clean this up and make it easy for everyone to understand what's happening
An average fan that maybe tunes intot eh Super Bowl was probably thinking shenanigans in that Overtime
Had Kelce scored on the play before Hardman, you would have really seen some folks step out and say "Scripted"

I don't think the games are scripted or rigged but the NFL makes it tough to just overlook at times.

They explained it at least 100 times during the broadcast.

It's a new rule they put in after everyone asked for it after the Bills/Chiefs game a few years ago. They used to have simpler overtime rules and everyone hated it, and asked for this.

How are the old rules simpler? This is simple — each team gets the ball at least once. If they are tied after that, it’s sudden death.

 

[Instinctive]

You should kickoff in playoff overtime. The team that receives the ball gets 3 downs. If that first team does score 3 or 7, then the team that gets the ball next gets 4 downs to get 10 the entire drive along with knowing what they need to tie and to win.

Actually, both teams always have 4 downs, the entire game and OT.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

You should kickoff in playoff overtime. The team that receives the ball gets 3 downs. If that first team does score 3 or 7, then the team that gets the ball next gets 4 downs to get 10 the entire drive along with knowing what they need to tie and to win.

Actually, both teams always have 4 downs, the entire game and OT.

I’m going to make a wild guess that you understand the point.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

The Shark Pool knows that Kyle Shanahan and most of the SF 49'ers DID NOT KNOW how the overtime rules worked in the Super Bowl, correct?
Was this not the first time ever in the Super Bowl that overtime had to be used?

-Any of the smarties in here that think they know it all, maybe you should apply to SF and be their NFL Rules coordinator because they freely admit they had no clue
Shanny even doubled down and said he was paying for the 3rd Possession, what the bleep is he talking about?

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

You should kickoff in playoff overtime. The team that receives the ball gets 3 downs. If that first team does score 3 or 7, then the team that gets the ball next gets 4 downs to get 10 the entire drive along with knowing what they need to tie and to win.

Actually, both teams always have 4 downs, the entire game and OT.

This can't possibly be true. We are regularly told by announcers that a team facing fourth down is being "forced to punt". I always assumed that meant that terrorists were holding the HC's family hostage and threatening to shoot them if he went for it

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Something I've been wondering about since Sunday: We constantly hear that defensive fatigue is a factor to consider in this situation; is there a reason defensive fatigue is so much more important than offensive fatigue? I assume what people generally mean is that a gassed DL will get pushed around by the other team's OL, but why wouldn't the OL be just as tired? The Niners defense had just been on the field for a long drive at the end of regulation, but so had KC's offense.

I know in some cases, effects can be asymmetrical. On a slippery field, WRs have an advantage because they know where they're going and when they're making cuts, whereas DBs have to react. But I see no obvious reason why the impact of fatigue shouldn't be symmetrical

 

[ChiefD]

I guess that if San Fran had scored a TD on their opening drive that they would not have won 25-19 automatically.
I was under the impression that when a team drives down for a TD on the opening drive of OT, game over
I also thought overtime was 10 minute periods after about a decade where I would routinely ask in game threads, "When did they got to 10 minute OT periods?"

Event he players don't know what the Overtime Rules are
Wish the NFL would clean this up and make it easy for everyone to understand what's happening
An average fan that maybe tunes intot eh Super Bowl was probably thinking shenanigans in that Overtime
Had Kelce scored on the play before Hardman, you would have really seen some folks step out and say "Scripted"

I don't think the games are scripted or rigged but the NFL makes it tough to just overlook at times.

They explained it at least 100 times during the broadcast.

It's a new rule they put in after everyone asked for it after the Bills/Chiefs game a few years ago. They used to have simpler overtime rules and everyone hated it, and asked for this.

Who listens to the booth/broadcast?
100x, I never heard it once

I knew it before the game and I'm not paid millions of dollars a year. Wish they'd roll this rule into the regular season, it's awesome.

This would make it so much easier and fun as hell.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

I guess that if San Fran had scored a TD on their opening drive that they would not have won 25-19 automatically.
I was under the impression that when a team drives down for a TD on the opening drive of OT, game over
I also thought overtime was 10 minute periods after about a decade where I would routinely ask in game threads, "When did they got to 10 minute OT periods?"

Event he players don't know what the Overtime Rules are
Wish the NFL would clean this up and make it easy for everyone to understand what's happening
An average fan that maybe tunes intot eh Super Bowl was probably thinking shenanigans in that Overtime
Had Kelce scored on the play before Hardman, you would have really seen some folks step out and say "Scripted"

I don't think the games are scripted or rigged but the NFL makes it tough to just overlook at times.

They explained it at least 100 times during the broadcast.

It's a new rule they put in after everyone asked for it after the Bills/Chiefs game a few years ago. They used to have simpler overtime rules and everyone hated it, and asked for this.

Who listens to the booth/broadcast?
100x, I never heard it once

I knew it before the game and I'm not paid millions of dollars a year. Wish they'd roll this rule into the regular season, it's awesome.

This would make it so much easier and fun as hell.

I agree, and the fact that it's 50/50 for the kicking/receiving teams (as opposed to 57/43 for sudden death and 53/47 under the current rules) is a strong argument in its favor.

The only thing I wonder about is whether the league wants to be extending regular season games even more.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I guess that if San Fran had scored a TD on their opening drive that they would not have won 25-19 automatically.
I was under the impression that when a team drives down for a TD on the opening drive of OT, game over
I also thought overtime was 10 minute periods after about a decade where I would routinely ask in game threads, "When did they got to 10 minute OT periods?"

Event he players don't know what the Overtime Rules are
Wish the NFL would clean this up and make it easy for everyone to understand what's happening
An average fan that maybe tunes intot eh Super Bowl was probably thinking shenanigans in that Overtime
Had Kelce scored on the play before Hardman, you would have really seen some folks step out and say "Scripted"

I don't think the games are scripted or rigged but the NFL makes it tough to just overlook at times.

They explained it at least 100 times during the broadcast.

It's a new rule they put in after everyone asked for it after the Bills/Chiefs game a few years ago. They used to have simpler overtime rules and everyone hated it, and asked for this.

Who listens to the booth/broadcast?
100x, I never heard it once

I knew it before the game and I'm not paid millions of dollars a year. Wish they'd roll this rule into the regular season, it's awesome.

This would make it so much easier and fun as hell.

I agree, and the fact that it's 50/50 for the kicking/receiving teams (as opposed to 57/43 for sudden death and 53/47 under the current rules) is a strong argument in its favor.

The only thing I wonder about is whether the league wants to be extending regular season games even more.

Overtime Commercial $$$ down?

 

[need2know]

the more i think about this the more i dont think it matters. the niners werent good enough on defense or offense at the end of the game. they wouldve lost either way,

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

the more i think about this the more i dont think it matters. the niners werent good enough on defense or offense at the end of the game. they wouldve lost either way,

I said in the game thread that the Chiefs won because they had Mahomes and the Niners lost because they didn't. Sometimes we spend lots of time developing theories when the answer is staring us right in the face.

I heard a crazy stat on the Wharton Moneyball podcast today: If you look at potential game-winning drives (one score games where the trailing team has a drive that finishes in the final minute of the game), the league average is that 40% of those teams score. Other great QBs are a little better than that (across a very small sample). Brady was something like 7/11, Brees was 3/6, etc.

Across his career so far, Patrick Mahomes is 7/7.

 

[efactor]

the more i think about this the more i dont think it matters. the niners werent good enough on defense or offense at the end of the game. they wouldve lost either way,

I said in the game thread that the Chiefs won because they had Mahomes and the Niners lost because they didn't. Sometimes we spend lots of time developing theories when the answer is staring us right in the face.

OK, but don't think it's that simple.

49ers had too many "unforced" errors. The CMC fumble hurt but that's part of football and happens to even the greatest players. But 4 false start penalties is ridicules (one is probably close to the norm) and put them in down and distance problems that affected drives. But the biggie was the muffed punt. Luter claims he didn't hear the code word to get away from the ball, but everyone else seemed to have heard it, so maybe check your hearing. Then McCloud tries to pick up the ball instead of just falling on it. Then he doubles down and says he has no regrets about it because "I'm a playmaker" and was trying to make a big play. Actually Ray Ray, falling on the ball and recovering it there would have been a HUGE play. KC gets their only TD in regulation on the short, 15 yard field and turns the game around.

Mahomes is excellent and all but KC didn't win just because of him. Great defense and a big help from two idiots on the 49ers punt return team helped tremendously.

 

[CGRdrJoe]

As a Falcons fan, I both could and couldn't believe he did it again. The schadenfreude was palpable though.

The 49ers defense forced 6 turnovers & their offense couldn’t put points on the board.

Shanahan didn’t let a punt glance off of his foot.

Shanahan didn’t not see Jennings on a crossing route for an easy 7+ yards to make it 3rd & short, instead forcing a ball to a well-covered Kittle.

Shanahan didn’t commit a false start at a critical point of the game.

Shanahan got his team in a position to win the game at the end.

At some point you have to give credit to the KC defense for executing, and to Patrick Mahomes for putting in yet another game winning drive. The Chiefs earned this, 100%.

Shanahan didn’t do anything worthy of your shadenfruede, but I’m happy if that was cathartic for you.

Don't get me wrong - I actually think he's a great coach and only very minimally blamed him for the Falcons game and it was much more egregious what he did to us. All he really had to do was run one more time and kick a FG and it's essentially over. I do think they should have run a little more last night but it wasn't bad - 31 rushes to 38 passing attempts. Take a few of those out for scrambles and it's still within 10.

I think he's a pretty brilliant play caller and I really enjoy watching his teams play.

Lastly, I'm really happy he lost.

it's funny that people in Atlanta still put the blame on him, as if he was the head coach who was supposed to be a defensive genius only to give up 25 point lead....

 

[efactor]

As a Falcons fan, I both could and couldn't believe he did it again. The schadenfreude was palpable though.

The 49ers defense forced 6 turnovers & their offense couldn’t put points on the board.

Shanahan didn’t let a punt glance off of his foot.

Shanahan didn’t not see Jennings on a crossing route for an easy 7+ yards to make it 3rd & short, instead forcing a ball to a well-covered Kittle.

Shanahan didn’t commit a false start at a critical point of the game.

Shanahan got his team in a position to win the game at the end.

At some point you have to give credit to the KC defense for executing, and to Patrick Mahomes for putting in yet another game winning drive. The Chiefs earned this, 100%.

Shanahan didn’t do anything worthy of your shadenfruede, but I’m happy if that was cathartic for you.

Don't get me wrong - I actually think he's a great coach and only very minimally blamed him for the Falcons game and it was much more egregious what he did to us. All he really had to do was run one more time and kick a FG and it's essentially over. I do think they should have run a little more last night but it wasn't bad - 31 rushes to 38 passing attempts. Take a few of those out for scrambles and it's still within 10.

I think he's a pretty brilliant play caller and I really enjoy watching his teams play.

Lastly, I'm really happy he lost.

it's funny that people in Atlanta still put the blame on him, as if he was the head coach who was supposed to be a defensive genius only to give up 25 point lead....

Yeah, a lot of weird hatred for Shanahan. Doubt those same people would be giving him credit for having a super bowl title on his resume if they had held on and won the game. And it's not just Atlanta fans.

 

[GregR]

The Shark Pool knows that Kyle Shanahan and most of the SF 49'ers DID NOT KNOW how the overtime rules worked in the Super Bowl, correct?

This isn't in line with the media reports out there. Shanahan ran through scenarios with his analytics staff for playoff overtime rules, well before the playoffs ever started. He was aware of the rules.

Some 49ers players said they didn't know the overtime rules. Some said they did.

The position coaches were supposed to remind them before overtime started, so there wasn't any confusion. Purdy is one who stated that's what happened, and his coach clarified it with him before overtime started.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

said in the game thread that the Chiefs won because they had Mahomes and the Niners lost because they didn't. Sometimes we spend lots of time developing theories when the answer is staring us right in the face.

I heard a crazy stat on the Wharton Moneyball podcast today: If you look at potential game-winning drives (one score games where the trailing team has a drive that finishes in the final minute of the game), the league average is that 40% of those teams score. Other great QBs are a little better than that (across a very small sample). Brady was something like 7/11, Brees was 3/6, etc.

Across his career so far, Patrick Mahomes is 7/7.

Also, 15-3 in the playoffs.

2 of the 3 losses came vs teams with Tom Brady at QB.

 

[jobarules]

I don't get the outrage at all. I'd want the 3rd possession because then it becomes sudden death. I'd receive

 

[efactor]

The Shark Pool knows that Kyle Shanahan and most of the SF 49'ers DID NOT KNOW how the overtime rules worked in the Super Bowl, correct?

This isn't in line with the media reports out there. Shanahan ran through scenarios with his analytics staff for playoff overtime rules, well before the playoffs ever started. He was aware of the rules.

Some 49ers players said they didn't know the overtime rules. Some said they did.

The position coaches were supposed to remind them before overtime started, so there wasn't any confusion. Purdy is one who stated that's what happened, and his coach clarified it with him before overtime started.

This issue has been so overblown because a few players said they weren't aware of the rules. Obviously most were, so I have to question the intelligence or attention span of those claiming they didn't know of a rule change that happened in 2022. Hard to believe that NOBODY discussed this change with them over the past two seasons. That's on them. Hopefully they are aware that teams are awarded a new set of downs if they gain 10 or more yards.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

You really have to wonder about a player that says he's not aware of the rules. Even if I didn't know I wouldn't be saying that out loud.

 

[AAABatteries]

As a Falcons fan, I both could and couldn't believe he did it again. The schadenfreude was palpable though.

The 49ers defense forced 6 turnovers & their offense couldn’t put points on the board.

Shanahan didn’t let a punt glance off of his foot.

Shanahan didn’t not see Jennings on a crossing route for an easy 7+ yards to make it 3rd & short, instead forcing a ball to a well-covered Kittle.

Shanahan didn’t commit a false start at a critical point of the game.

Shanahan got his team in a position to win the game at the end.

At some point you have to give credit to the KC defense for executing, and to Patrick Mahomes for putting in yet another game winning drive. The Chiefs earned this, 100%.

Shanahan didn’t do anything worthy of your shadenfruede, but I’m happy if that was cathartic for you.

Don't get me wrong - I actually think he's a great coach and only very minimally blamed him for the Falcons game and it was much more egregious what he did to us. All he really had to do was run one more time and kick a FG and it's essentially over. I do think they should have run a little more last night but it wasn't bad - 31 rushes to 38 passing attempts. Take a few of those out for scrambles and it's still within 10.

I think he's a pretty brilliant play caller and I really enjoy watching his teams play.

Lastly, I'm really happy he lost.

it's funny that people in Atlanta still put the blame on him, as if he was the head coach who was supposed to be a defensive genius only to give up 25 point lead....

Plenty of blame to go around - Quinn and defense gets most of it. He’s one of the main reasons they even had a lead but all he had to do was run the ball and kick a FG and it was probably over. He deserves some blame.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

the more i think about this the more i dont think it matters. the niners werent good enough on defense or offense at the end of the game. they wouldve lost either way,

I said in the game thread that the Chiefs won because they had Mahomes and the Niners lost because they didn't. Sometimes we spend lots of time developing theories when the answer is staring us right in the face.

I heard a crazy stat on the Wharton Moneyball podcast today: If you look at potential game-winning drives (one score games where the trailing team has a drive that finishes in the final minute of the game), the league average is that 40% of those teams score. Other great QBs are a little better than that (across a very small sample). Brady was something like 7/11, Brees was 3/6, etc.

Across his career so far, Patrick Mahomes is 7/7.

Here is the complete description of the stat I was talking about, courtest of 538.com's Neil Payne:

Since 2001, 56 QBs have a drive in an NFL playoff game where it was the fourth quarter or overtime, there was under a minute to play, and the offensive team was either tied or trailed by 7 points or fewer at the start. In total, there have been 125 such drives over the 24 years.
‌
Of those 125 drives, only 40% saw the offensive team either tie the game or take the lead. Great QBs tend to have better success rates than average; Tom Brady, for instance, went 5-for-11 (46%), while Drew Brees went 3-for-6 (50%) and Aaron Rodgers was 3-for-4 (75%).
‌
Then there's Patrick Mahomes, who is 7-for-7 (100%) in those situations — including both the game-tying drive at the end of regulation and the game-winning drive in overtime on Sunday night.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

The Shark Pool knows that Kyle Shanahan and most of the SF 49'ers DID NOT KNOW how the overtime rules worked in the Super Bowl, correct?

This isn't in line with the media reports out there. Shanahan ran through scenarios with his analytics staff for playoff overtime rules, well before the playoffs ever started. He was aware of the rules.

Some 49ers players said they didn't know the overtime rules. Some said they did.

The position coaches were supposed to remind them before overtime started, so there wasn't any confusion. Purdy is one who stated that's what happened, and his coach clarified it with him before overtime started.

David Sampson who runs and hosts the Nothing Personal podcast and former President of the Marlins for about 15 years said and I quote
"We never went over rules changes with the players"
-Keep it simple, just don't allow TDs was his message. Nothing about the rules changes that the Niners needed to know to keep the Chiefs out of the end zone on the final drive

Also i would like to say that early in the football game you never thought the niners would be gassed late in that games unless you knew they were going 14:57 into Overtime, nobody was even thinking that at Halftime.

Shanahan doubled down when he should have just fallen on the sword not once but he had a 2nd chance and opted to just double down

 

[Ministry of Pain]

The Shark Pool knows that Kyle Shanahan and most of the SF 49'ers DID NOT KNOW how the overtime rules worked in the Super Bowl, correct?

This isn't in line with the media reports out there. Shanahan ran through scenarios with his analytics staff for playoff overtime rules, well before the playoffs ever started. He was aware of the rules.

Some 49ers players said they didn't know the overtime rules. Some said they did.

The position coaches were supposed to remind them before overtime started, so there wasn't any confusion. Purdy is one who stated that's what happened, and his coach clarified it with him before overtime started.

This issue has been so overblown because a few players said they weren't aware of the rules. Obviously most were, so I have to question the intelligence or attention span of those claiming they didn't know of a rule change that happened in 2022. Hard to believe that NOBODY discussed this change with them over the past two seasons. That's on them. Hopefully they are aware that teams are awarded a new set of downs if they gain 10 or more yards.

New set of downs?!
When was that rule changed?

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

The Shark Pool knows that Kyle Shanahan and most of the SF 49'ers DID NOT KNOW how the overtime rules worked in the Super Bowl, correct?

This isn't in line with the media reports out there. Shanahan ran through scenarios with his analytics staff for playoff overtime rules, well before the playoffs ever started. He was aware of the rules.

Some 49ers players said they didn't know the overtime rules. Some said they did.

The position coaches were supposed to remind them before overtime started, so there wasn't any confusion. Purdy is one who stated that's what happened, and his coach clarified it with him before overtime started.

This issue has been so overblown because a few players said they weren't aware of the rules. Obviously most were, so I have to question the intelligence or attention span of those claiming they didn't know of a rule change that happened in 2022. Hard to believe that NOBODY discussed this change with them over the past two seasons. That's on them. Hopefully they are aware that teams are awarded a new set of downs if they gain 10 or more yards.

New set of downs?!
When was that rule changed?

WHAT WEIRD SORCERY IS THIS?!?!?!

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Top 10 things heard in the SF locker room post game by numerous players

10. When did they move the start time of games to 6:30 EST?

9. Since when did holding calls get erased from potential flags the Refs might throw?

8. Two feet in bounds and maintain possession?

7. Did anyone know about an off the ball Linebacker because the Chiefs had one of those

6. Who blows out their achilles running on to the field?

5. Why is Taylor Swift always featured when the Chiefs get down inside the 10 yd line?

4. Did anyone else know we could shove our Head Coach and live to talk about it?

3. Has anyone seen Brandon Aiyuk tonight?

2. Spearmint Rhino just got ruined

1. I didn't think Super Bowls had overtime, we never discussed it before we got here

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

I don't get the outrage at all. I'd want the 3rd possession because then it becomes sudden death. I'd receive

Except in the entire history of this rule, there has never been a 3rd possession. Why strategize around something that will never happen?

Yes, there is a bit of hyperbole in the premise...

 

[Instinctive]

You should kickoff in playoff overtime. The team that receives the ball gets 3 downs. If that first team does score 3 or 7, then the team that gets the ball next gets 4 downs to get 10 the entire drive along with knowing what they need to tie and to win.

Actually, both teams always have 4 downs, the entire game and OT.

I’m going to make a wild guess that you understand the point.

Sorry it was my passive aggressive way of indicating that it is a poor point, and that the mistake is not letting the other team have four downs, but not using all four yourself. But I'm sure you got that too.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

As a Falcons fan, I both could and couldn't believe he did it again. The schadenfreude was palpable though.

The 49ers defense forced 6 turnovers & their offense couldn’t put points on the board.

Shanahan didn’t let a punt glance off of his foot.

Shanahan didn’t not see Jennings on a crossing route for an easy 7+ yards to make it 3rd & short, instead forcing a ball to a well-covered Kittle.

Shanahan didn’t commit a false start at a critical point of the game.

Shanahan got his team in a position to win the game at the end.

At some point you have to give credit to the KC defense for executing, and to Patrick Mahomes for putting in yet another game winning drive. The Chiefs earned this, 100%.

Shanahan didn’t do anything worthy of your shadenfruede, but I’m happy if that was cathartic for you.

Don't get me wrong - I actually think he's a great coach and only very minimally blamed him for the Falcons game and it was much more egregious what he did to us. All he really had to do was run one more time and kick a FG and it's essentially over. I do think they should have run a little more last night but it wasn't bad - 31 rushes to 38 passing attempts. Take a few of those out for scrambles and it's still within 10.

I think he's a pretty brilliant play caller and I really enjoy watching his teams play.

Lastly, I'm really happy he lost.

When you have a lead against Kansas City, and your running game is working, and you have the best back in the game, it should be lopsided in favor of the run game. Should have been closer to 20 pass attempts than 38. His dad knew to have John Elway just hand off to Terrell Davis and get out of the way against the Packers. Was this over-compensating for the 28-3 Patriots comeback, wanting to stay sharp and aggressive?

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

I shouldn't be surprised that a third of the people will disagree with just about any premise, so I guess the poll makes sense. I still don't see a rationale for receiving.

Going second controls everything. If the first team didn't score, you win with a FG. If they scored a FG, you win with a TD. If they scored a TD, you win by getting a TD and going for two (no team would do that going first, not even the Lions). You have your fate in your hands no matter what, and the first team can't end the game no matter what.

I'll admit I thought it was smart when I watched it...because I had about 30 seconds to ponder the new rules and how they impact the game. But I was just a guy with a plate of taquitos and pigs in a blanket, and a sheet of losing squares. If it was my career, and I got paid millions, and it had a chance of impacting me winning a Super Bowl, I would have paid more attention earlier in the season. I would have known the rules and drilled it into my players.

I get frustrated when I miss a nuance of a fantasy league rule that I should have caught before draft day. But this? Your career, on the biggest sports day in North America? With Taylor Swift watching? Unacceptable.

 

[jobarules]

I don't get the outrage at all. I'd want the 3rd possession because then it becomes sudden death. I'd receive

Except in the entire history of this rule, there has never been a 3rd possession. Why strategize around something that will never happen?

Yes, there is a bit of hyperbole in the premise...

Isnt the entire history of this rule this one game?

 

[Long Ball Larry]

I guess that if San Fran had scored a TD on their opening drive that they would not have won 25-19 automatically.
I was under the impression that when a team drives down for a TD on the opening drive of OT, game over
I also thought overtime was 10 minute periods after about a decade where I would routinely ask in game threads, "When did they got to 10 minute OT periods?"

Event he players don't know what the Overtime Rules are
Wish the NFL would clean this up and make it easy for everyone to understand what's happening
An average fan that maybe tunes intot eh Super Bowl was probably thinking shenanigans in that Overtime
Had Kelce scored on the play before Hardman, you would have really seen some folks step out and say "Scripted"

I don't think the games are scripted or rigged but the NFL makes it tough to just overlook at times.

They explained it at least 100 times during the broadcast.

It's a new rule they put in after everyone asked for it after the Bills/Chiefs game a few years ago. They used to have simpler overtime rules and everyone hated it, and asked for this.

Who listens to the booth/broadcast?
100x, I never heard it once

LOL

how would you like to have received the information?

I don't know the rules, ergo the NFL seems like it is rigged. No one sent me a fax!

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I guess that if San Fran had scored a TD on their opening drive that they would not have won 25-19 automatically.
I was under the impression that when a team drives down for a TD on the opening drive of OT, game over
I also thought overtime was 10 minute periods after about a decade where I would routinely ask in game threads, "When did they got to 10 minute OT periods?"

Event he players don't know what the Overtime Rules are
Wish the NFL would clean this up and make it easy for everyone to understand what's happening
An average fan that maybe tunes intot eh Super Bowl was probably thinking shenanigans in that Overtime
Had Kelce scored on the play before Hardman, you would have really seen some folks step out and say "Scripted"

I don't think the games are scripted or rigged but the NFL makes it tough to just overlook at times.

They explained it at least 100 times during the broadcast.

It's a new rule they put in after everyone asked for it after the Bills/Chiefs game a few years ago. They used to have simpler overtime rules and everyone hated it, and asked for this.

Who listens to the booth/broadcast?
100x, I never heard it once

LOL

how would you like to have received the information?

I don't know the rules, ergo the NFL seems like it is rigged. No one sent me a fax!

The larger point was most SF players seemed to have no idea how overtime worked in the Playoffs
I bet a lot of casual fans also didn't know the rules

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Isnt the entire history of this rule this one game?

I said that there was a bit of hyperbole in the comment.

That being said, I still don't think that the advantage gained if somehow the game gets to a third possession outweighs the advantages that will definitely exist during the first two possessions. That would be true with pretty much any pairings, but especially true since the game had turn into Mahomes vs Jenkins at that point.

 

[Zow]

Here's the thing though:

1. Let's say you don't score, punt, and they have the ball on the 25. Can't you still end the game with a turnover and a cheap field goal quite easily?
2. if you receive, aren't you guaranteed the ball? Or are we assuming there'll be a sudden overtime rash of trying to return kicks from out the back of the end zone and fumbling them?

I generally agree that this is probably a super close call that may not even have a right answer as the going wisdom but will depend on things like "my defense is tired right now" - but let's have good reasons if we're going o favor one side over the other.

Regarding your first point: Definitely. At that point, there's all kinds of sudden death. I want the chance to end it as quick as possible, and the only way it ends on the first drive is a turnover.

And hey, if you receive the ball, and go down and get a TD, that's the best option. Make them HAVE to get a TD. SF received the ball, and got a FG, which really puts KC in a nice state of mind.

Taking the ball, and getting a FG is really not great. It looks a lot better if you get a TD. (HOT TAKE)

It's not great, but it's still good in my opinion. Even in the moment I didn't think it was a total bummer for SF (I was cheering for them as I had them -1.5). If I were to liken it to blackjack, it's like getting an 18. It's not great but it wins probably more than 1/2 the time so, conservatively, you gotta stay and live with it as a generally satisfactory outcome. As such, I still defend Shanahan taking the FG and then putting the pressure on KC.

The reality here is that SF didn't maximize their chances and made some minor mistakes throughout the game that let a great player and coach combination in Mahomes and Reid as well as a very good defense with a great coordinator step up and win the game. Hats off to them. I applaud the overtime rules as applied because it creates a near 50/50 proposition and SF didn't lose because they elected to receive.

 

[Zow]

I guess that if San Fran had scored a TD on their opening drive that they would not have won 25-19 automatically.
I was under the impression that when a team drives down for a TD on the opening drive of OT, game over
I also thought overtime was 10 minute periods after about a decade where I would routinely ask in game threads, "When did they got to 10 minute OT periods?"

Event he players don't know what the Overtime Rules are
Wish the NFL would clean this up and make it easy for everyone to understand what's happening
An average fan that maybe tunes intot eh Super Bowl was probably thinking shenanigans in that Overtime
Had Kelce scored on the play before Hardman, you would have really seen some folks step out and say "Scripted"

I don't think the games are scripted or rigged but the NFL makes it tough to just overlook at times.

They explained it at least 100 times during the broadcast.

It's a new rule they put in after everyone asked for it after the Bills/Chiefs game a few years ago. They used to have simpler overtime rules and everyone hated it, and asked for this.

Who listens to the booth/broadcast?
100x, I never heard it once

LOL

how would you like to have received the information?

I don't know the rules, ergo the NFL seems like it is rigged. No one sent me a fax!

The larger point was most SF players seemed to have no idea how overtime worked in the Playoffs
I bet a lot of casual fans also didn't know the rules

Go read the Super Bowl thread here. Even hardcore football fans found on this board were confused.

 

[Zow]

You should kickoff in playoff overtime. The team that receives the ball gets 3 downs. If that first team does score 3 or 7, then the team that gets the ball next gets 4 downs to get 10 the entire drive along with knowing what they need to tie and to win.

No, they get four. They just don't get the luxury of knowing with certainty what they need to do on 4th.

 

[Zow]

I guess that if San Fran had scored a TD on their opening drive that they would not have won 25-19 automatically.
I was under the impression that when a team drives down for a TD on the opening drive of OT, game over
I also thought overtime was 10 minute periods after about a decade where I would routinely ask in game threads, "When did they got to 10 minute OT periods?"

Event he players don't know what the Overtime Rules are
Wish the NFL would clean this up and make it easy for everyone to understand what's happening
An average fan that maybe tunes intot eh Super Bowl was probably thinking shenanigans in that Overtime
Had Kelce scored on the play before Hardman, you would have really seen some folks step out and say "Scripted"

I don't think the games are scripted or rigged but the NFL makes it tough to just overlook at times.

They explained it at least 100 times during the broadcast.

It's a new rule they put in after everyone asked for it after the Bills/Chiefs game a few years ago. They used to have simpler overtime rules and everyone hated it, and asked for this.

Who listens to the booth/broadcast?
100x, I never heard it once

I knew it before the game and I'm not paid millions of dollars a year. Wish they'd roll this rule into the regular season, it's awesome.

This would make it so much easier and fun as hell.

I agree, and the fact that it's 50/50 for the kicking/receiving teams (as opposed to 57/43 for sudden death and 53/47 under the current rules) is a strong argument in its favor.

The only thing I wonder about is whether the league wants to be extending regular season games even more.

And they shouldn't. I think for the regular season the current rules make the most sense.

 

[Mr.Pack]

I’d always kick . If my D is fatigued I use my 3 TOs for rest. This OT format makes the clock irrelevant, imo

Agreed the clock is irrelevant. So why is there a clock in OT?

 

[AAABatteries]

I shouldn't be surprised that a third of the people will disagree with just about any premise, so I guess the poll makes sense. I still don't see a rationale for receiving.

Somebody already posted up thread that receiving gives you a slight advantage based on the simulation they ran - very slight though, to the point that it’s probably a coin toss.

 

[Instinctive]

Let's see:

Losses before possession three:

• FG-TD
• TD-TD2
• TD failed 2-TD2
• no score-FG
• no score-TD

Wins before possession three:

• FG-no score
• TD-no score
• TD2-no score
• TD-TD failed 2
• TD2-TD failed 2

Outcomes leading to possession three:

• FG-FG
• TD-TD
• TD2-TD2
• no score-no score

I think the general outcome for a sudden death OT in the NFL has historically been like a 60-65% chance the team with the ball first wins.

So, the most simple model would say if all 14 possible outcomes are equally likely, receiving first means 5 times you lose, 5 times you win, and 4 times you're 60-65% likely to win. I think that would favor receiving first.

Obviously, you'd want to see which outcomes are more or less likely (like I'm sure FG-FG is more likely than TD-TD, for example), and then adjust those outcome probabilities as best you can for your specific team and opponent. But on the face, it makes me lean "receive first."

Beyond that, I have to believe that if KC gets bogged down between the 15 and 45 yard line like they basically had the entire game, and then the 49ers have possession three and run down and kick a 40 yard FG and win, everyone thinks it's a genius move. Too many of the arguments in here seem based on what did happen vs what was likely to or could happen.

 

[Instinctive]

I’d always kick . If my D is fatigued I use my 3 TOs for rest. This OT format makes the clock irrelevant, imo

Agreed the clock is irrelevant. So why is there a clock in OT?

So they know when to take a break and let the teams rest.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I’d always kick . If my D is fatigued I use my 3 TOs for rest. This OT format makes the clock irrelevant, imo

Agreed the clock is irrelevant. So why is there a clock in OT?

They change sides of the field after each quarter and award additional timeouts after each 2 quarters if the game goes that long.

 

[HellToupee]

I’d always kick . If my D is fatigued I use my 3 TOs for rest. This OT format makes the clock irrelevant, imo

Agreed the clock is irrelevant. So why is there a clock in OT?

So they know when to take a break and let the teams rest.

Yes . That’s why the TO strategy changes , imo.

 

[Instinctive]

I’d always kick . If my D is fatigued I use my 3 TOs for rest. This OT format makes the clock irrelevant, imo

Agreed the clock is irrelevant. So why is there a clock in OT?

So they know when to take a break and let the teams rest.

Yes . That’s why the TO strategy changes , imo.

There's also a 2 minute warning in the second quarter again. So there's some strategy to trying to get the last possession with a chance at a FG if it goes that far.

 

[N Zone]

You should kickoff in playoff overtime. The team that receives the ball gets 3 downs. If that first team does score 3 or 7, then the team that gets the ball next gets 4 downs to get 10 the entire drive along with knowing what they need to tie and to win.

Actually, both teams always have 4 downs, the entire game and OT.

I’m going to make a wild guess that you understand the point.

Sorry it was my passive aggressive way of indicating that it is a poor point, and that the mistake is not letting the other team have four downs, but not using all four yourself. But I'm sure you got that too.

There's a difference between being down 3 or 7 in overtime, as opposed to being tied and having a 4th down on your own side of the field. Can't believe I have to point this out, Teams in the NFL playoffs that win the OT coin toss should kick off every time and I think that will become the standard.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

The Shark Pool knows that Kyle Shanahan and most of the SF 49'ers DID NOT KNOW how the overtime rules worked in the Super Bowl, correct?

This isn't in line with the media reports out there. Shanahan ran through scenarios with his analytics staff for playoff overtime rules, well before the playoffs ever started. He was aware of the rules.

Some 49ers players said they didn't know the overtime rules. Some said they did.

The position coaches were supposed to remind them before overtime started, so there wasn't any confusion. Purdy is one who stated that's what happened, and his coach clarified it with him before overtime started.

David Sampson who runs and hosts the Nothing Personal podcast and former President of the Marlins for about 15 years said and I quote
"We never went over rules changes with the players"
-Keep it simple, just don't allow TDs was his message. Nothing about the rules changes that the Niners needed to know to keep the Chiefs out of the end zone on the final drive

Also i would like to say that early in the football game you never thought the niners would be gassed late in that games unless you knew they were going 14:57 into Overtime, nobody was even thinking that at Halftime.

Shanahan doubled down when he should have just fallen on the sword not once but he had a 2nd chance and opted to just double down

You get this show!

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

I haven't read the vast majority of this thread, but IMO... I really had no problem with Shanahan's decision/explanation in the heat of the moment UNTIL I heard that the Chiefs' plan would have been to go for 2 after a second possession, to prevent a 3rd (advantage SF) possession. I didn't think of that when I was playing things out in my head as things unfolded. For that reason, I think everyone from here on out will choose to take the ball second, instead of trying to get that 3rd possession advantage. Kudos to the Chiefs coaches for thinking of that.