Kiddnets
Footballguy
This - boring and the refs are clueless how to call it. Time to go.
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Should the Tush Push play be banned? (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
As someone who supported not abolishing the play coming into the season...if they can't officiate it correctly...then that's a position changer.
steelcityman
Footballguy
Bush push was 20 years ago.
Philly butt grab is lame, and I agree, no pushing of any player with the ball. Of course the big OL can push a ball carrier 4-5-10 yards if they want to. Its silly.
I just love how Philly pays Saquon $20M to stand around and do nothing on a lot of plays. 14 touches in a divisional matchup is crazy to me. Like driving a Ferrari at 5 mph.
Dizzy
Footballguy
It's been talked about repeatedly in recent weeks and I think this is why other teams haven't been able to run it successfully. When others (Bills comes to mind) have tried, it looks disjointed and I'm guessing it's because the guards aren't moving until after the ball is snapped. That split second is everything in a play that relies entirely on leverage and gaining the low ground.
Not sure when or why they changed the rule to allow pushing the ball carrier, but anytime you change a rule you can bet all loopholes or advantages are being explored.
Think changed around 2005, credit to the Eagles for taking advantage of a play that seemed to have been forgotten with the resources they had and spending time on figuring out how to exploit the rules to their advantage, nothing really wrong with that but the play as things stand is bad for the league, and it's now time for it to be shot into the sun.
Stoneworker
Footballguy
Sean Payton on the Tush Push before last week's game
“I was one that stood up in favor of [the Tush Push]," Payton said during his Monday conference call with reporters. "The reason I stood up in favor of is pretty simple. If the powers to be don’t want it for aesthetic reasons, or competitive reasons, or it’s hard to officiate, etcetera. I’ve been involved in those meetings for a long time, and when all of the sudden health and safety was pulled into that, which might be the safest play in football, my [B.S.] nose kind of went up. It’s a quarterback sneak, and I think credit Philadelphia.
“I was one that stood up in favor of [the Tush Push]," Payton said during his Monday conference call with reporters. "The reason I stood up in favor of is pretty simple. If the powers to be don’t want it for aesthetic reasons, or competitive reasons, or it’s hard to officiate, etcetera. I’ve been involved in those meetings for a long time, and when all of the sudden health and safety was pulled into that, which might be the safest play in football, my [B.S.] nose kind of went up. It’s a quarterback sneak, and I think credit Philadelphia.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Forget how I voted but last night swayed me to “ban it” side.
If I had to coach against the push, I would bring in a few consultants to help me plan. Guys like Bill Lambier, Nolan Ryan, Ty Cobb, Ndamukong Suh, Conrad Dobler, Bill Romanowski, Tonya Harding. I may not be able to stop them, but their players are coming out of the pile missing body parts.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
Yup exactly where I’m at.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
I think banning a play is bad precedent. That said, I think there are solid arguments to take the play out of the game. If the league simply brought back the rule of making it illegal to aid the runner I think it would make the play much less effective, ultimately taking the play out of the game.
jhib
Footballguy
Yeah, I compare this to the neutral zone trap in hockey. As a Devils fan, part of me always thought the rest of the league's fans just wanted it gone because the Devils were so good at it. Any other team could do it if they wanted, and if they wanted to stop it, then figure out a way to beat it! But it obviously wasn't a popular thing for the aesthetics of the game, so the NHL changed some rules to make it less effective while not explicitly banning it. Seems like they made the right move and the NFL is in a pretty analogous situation here.
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
There is no enshrinement of this play in history, it was not legal 20 years ago, as a player safety matter
I dont think the tush push per se is dangerous, but I dont like the pile moving on the other rugby scrums, I think thats inherently an injury waiting to happen
As for the push, I was agnostic if not a supporter but if they can't or won't enforce this false start component, it should go.
I equate this to when the league for a year or two allowed challenges on all calls and they got rid of it, ostensibly to give cover to the officials, IMO
They may need similar cover here as its a hard play to call and if they won't buzz in to get it right, ban it.
I dont think the tush push per se is dangerous, but I dont like the pile moving on the other rugby scrums, I think thats inherently an injury waiting to happen
As for the push, I was agnostic if not a supporter but if they can't or won't enforce this false start component, it should go.
I equate this to when the league for a year or two allowed challenges on all calls and they got rid of it, ostensibly to give cover to the officials, IMO
They may need similar cover here as its a hard play to call and if they won't buzz in to get it right, ban it.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Except, of course, there already is a rule regarding aiding the runner.
rockaction
Footballguy
Interesting. I’m going into Eagles Reddit but only to listen. Some rugby dudes having a debate. I’ll report, you decide.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
Correction, in 2005 the NFL lifted the ban on pushing runners.Except, of course, there already is a rule regarding aiding the runner.
How have you missed all the olinemen pushing a RB down field. There are numerous instances of this every game, or so it seems.
I know the explanation is the play is impossible to officiate.
Sounds crazy I know, but maybe a referee could try standing here at this angle so they could see?
Sounds crazy I know, but maybe a referee could try standing here at this angle so they could see?
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Smack Tripper
Footballguy
This should just be a play they "buzz in" on
I will say, if you banned the Push half of it, Hurts Tush would still drive great success here, the guy is an athlete with burst who squats 600 pounds
I will say, if you banned the Push half of it, Hurts Tush would still drive great success here, the guy is an athlete with burst who squats 600 pounds
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
You don’t like penalties? Stop the illegal play.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
I haven’t missed it. I call it out frequently — Detroit is one of the teams that does it most often. It’s far more dangerous in open field than it is at the goalline IMO.Correction, in 2005 the NFL lifted the ban on pushing runners.Except, of course, there already is a rule regarding aiding the runner.
How have you missed all the olinemen pushing a RB down field. There are numerous instances of this every game, or so it seems.
They should go back to the old rule — for all plays, not just at the goalline.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
Yes, I agree.
The only way to keep things fair is if instead of the offense hiking at a time of their choosing the official blows the whistle to start the play. This would allow the same momentum advantage to both teams.
Much of the renewed controversy has come about because the Eagles had 4 tush pushes in a row. Maybe only allow one tush push in a row.
I don’t think it should be legal for someone to push or carry another player.
Good for the Eagles to effectively exploit current rules.
Much of the renewed controversy has come about because the Eagles had 4 tush pushes in a row. Maybe only allow one tush push in a row.
I don’t think it should be legal for someone to push or carry another player.
Good for the Eagles to effectively exploit current rules.
CottageBob
Footballguy
Look @ the Rams game. Ravens go for a tush push and fumble on 2nd effort, ball is getting scooped for a score and they blow it dead. buttt they would allow it if they scored on the 2nd effort..
they only blew it dead after the ball was clearly out and being picked up
they only blew it dead after the ball was clearly out and being picked up
pinkstapler
Footballguy
This might be the best alternative sports example I've seen on this play in another sport; really surprised I haven't seen or heard it till now. A legal play/strategy that is almost exclusively used/perfected by one team that gives them a particular advantage you can measure is statistically dominant compared to other teams usage of similar plays/strategies AND also is widely complained about by fans as being ugly/boring/ruining game flow. Wow, props to you on this one.
I remember my Devil's fan friends as the time being incredibly pissy because not only did they lift the ban on two line passes (and start calling a ton of obstruction penalties in the neutral zone) to kill the zone trap on them; but this was the same time they created the goalie trap zone rules for behind the net which everyone immediately nicknamed the Martin Brodeur rule bc it was 100% aimed at killing him handling dump offs into the corners like an ace lol. Talk about feeling like the entire league is out to get you...
jhib
Footballguy
Totally remember that feeling. Then a few years later came the Kovalchuk contract, which was technically within the rules and just a bit more extreme than what other teams were already doing, but the Devils got fined and lost draft picks for it for attempting to circumvent the salary cap (Come to think of it, another potential analogy with today's Eagles and the contract structures they've been using with guys like Hurts...) But somehow you don't care as much that it seems the league is against your team when they're winning championships.
Anyway, makes it easy to understand the feelings of a lot of Eagles fans at the moment.
