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Well, they did that too and was flagged. Did they ever false start and wasn’t flagged like usually happens, or was that ignored because they were stuffed a couple of times? Just wondering if anyone paid attention to that. I didn’t.
I only saw the false start they called when the O-lineman was trying to play patti-cake with the DL. On the other tushy pushies that got stopped it didn't look like there any false starts but they also didn't show any super slow motion replays (or at least I didn't see any of them).
on the patti cake play, the d-lineman was lined up in the neutral zone. refs got that one wrong actually. i forget if it was tirico or colinsworth, they called it out during the replay.
Correct, the two that got stopped, their center Jeurgens (sp?) was on the sideline banged up. Not saying that's the whole reason why it got stuffed, but when the very centerpiece of the play is your backup...
Lining up in the neutral zone by the defense is not a penalty until the ball is snapped. The guy playing patti-cake was a false start which is the correct penalty. If the defense jumped into the neutral zone causing the OL to move then it would be on the defense. Just having your hand in the neutral zone isn't a penalty until the ball is snapped.
I’m guessing they didn’t go before the snap on those plays
Or when their future HOF LT and starting Center aren’t in on the play.
Nope. That’s just not accurate at all.
true statement, steen should have let the refs call it after the snap of the ball. i stand corrected.
They most certainly can and most certainly do quite often. Curious what rule you think applies because if a defender is in the neutral zone the refs do not throw a flag until the ball is snapped or an offensive player moves
You see this all the time. A defender has a hand in the neutral zone, and then moves it back before the ball is snapped. No penalty.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to come off like a douche. It’s just that I’ve seen this narrative develop here and elsewhere that this play is only successful because the Eagles jump off sides as part of the play. I’ve literally watched this play run hundreds of times, and it is super successful and they almost never false start. There are a few examples of jumping early that have created this sense that they do it all the time. It’s just not so.
And corners looking at the official and moving back. Or a lineman jumping, but getting back without anyone on the o-line moving. Not a penalty
Eagles fan claims he's "watched hundreds of tush push plays" and never once saw any evidence of cheating, false starts and assistance over the goal line (despite literal video evidence from last week even). Swear to God! No lie!Sorry, I didn’t mean to come off like a douche. It’s just that I’ve seen this narrative develop here and elsewhere that this play is only successful because the Eagles jump off sides as part of the play. I’ve literally watched this play run hundreds of times, and it is super successful and they almost never false start. There are a few examples of jumping early that have created this sense that they do it all the time. It’s just not so.
ONly problem was that the false start probably should have been encroachment instead. Was an awkward call. Personally I thought encroachment because tapping his hand could not in any reasonable way be interpreted as simulating a snap. He did it several times, the first when they barely hit their stance, and the defender didnt move right away.
There’s about three videos of them jumping early-all from this season-one from the KC game, one from the GB game and one from the Rams game. That is not evidence of a trend bud. I have watched every eagles game going back decades and as such, have seen every time they run this play. Im willing to bet you have not, but somehow still continue to post like you know what you are talking about.Eagles fan claims he's "watched hundreds of tush push plays" and never once saw any evidence of cheating, false starts and assistance over the goal line (despite literal video evidence from last week even). Swear to God! No lie!Sorry, I didn’t mean to come off like a douche. It’s just that I’ve seen this narrative develop here and elsewhere that this play is only successful because the Eagles jump off sides as part of the play. I’ve literally watched this play run hundreds of times, and it is super successful and they almost never false start. There are a few examples of jumping early that have created this sense that they do it all the time. It’s just not so.
Everyone else saw it, but they shouldn't believe their lyin' eyes! Trust him!
C'mon, man.
I commented on the Eagles technique and why they got stopped (not false starting).I bring up new info: the fact the Lions were successful in stopping this play and notice how not one post since then said anything about their technique..etc.
Just more of the same narrative
I see you
If you mean encroachment on the offense then yes. You cannot reach out and touch your opponent prior to the snap (either side). I really don't understand how this would not be a penalty on the offense. The offense of player reached out and made contact with the defense. That is a false start/encroachment.
I bring up new info: the fact the Lions were successful in stopping this play and notice how not one post since then said anything about their technique..etc.
Just more of the same narrative
I see you
I bring up new info: the fact the Lions were successful in stopping this play and notice how not one post since then said anything about their technique..etc.
Just more of the same narrative
I see you
It's pretty obvious what has happened. No more "jumping the snap" for Philly... so now it's just another 50/50 QB sneak.
The cheat code has been taken away.
Probably good for Barkley owners ROS. Not so much for Hurts owners.
Also, I didn't say "never once saw any evidence of cheating, false starts and assistance over the goal line" so don't put words in my mouth. I said ive seen a few examples of jumping early, but the VAST MAJORITY of the time they do not go early. The idea that this play is only successful because Becton (or now Steen) jump a split second early is the lamest in a long line of lame reasons to get rid of the play.Eagles fan claims he's "watched hundreds of tush push plays" and never once saw any evidence of cheating, false starts and assistance over the goal line (despite literal video evidence from last week even). Swear to God! No lie!Sorry, I didn’t mean to come off like a douche. It’s just that I’ve seen this narrative develop here and elsewhere that this play is only successful because the Eagles jump off sides as part of the play. I’ve literally watched this play run hundreds of times, and it is super successful and they almost never false start. There are a few examples of jumping early that have created this sense that they do it all the time. It’s just not so.
Everyone else saw it, but they shouldn't believe their lyin' eyes! Trust him!
C'mon, man.
I bring up new info: the fact the Lions were successful in stopping this play and notice how not one post since then said anything about their technique..etc.
Just more of the same narrative
I see you
It's pretty obvious what has happened. No more "jumping the snap" for Philly... so now it's just another 50/50 QB sneak.
The cheat code has been taken away.
Probably good for Barkley owners ROS. Not so much for Hurts owners.
eagles were missing 2 olineman. its the only reason it didnt work this past game. not to mention the penalty that was not called vs detroit.
Yea, not sure why people are being so obtuse about this thing. The defense is allowed to be in the neutral zone until the ball is snapped. Up until that time it is not a penalty unless his move to into the zone makes an offensive player jump
What is this I bolded? Are you suggesting QB sneaks have a ....1 in 2 chance for failure??I bring up new info: the fact the Lions were successful in stopping this play and notice how not one post since then said anything about their technique..etc.
Just more of the same narrative
I see you
It's pretty obvious what has happened. No more "jumping the snap" for Philly... so now it's just another 50/50 QB sneak.
The cheat code has been taken away.
Probably good for Barkley owners ROS. Not so much for Hurts owners.
you mean sometimes you might actually need super slow motion replays to see if they left early....?....I thought the refs are supposed to be able to easily see this at real speed.....?.... why do we need super slow mo.....you mean in might be harder then we think to actually see it at live speed....no way....lol...
Also what is missing, for comparison/fairness sake, is a sampling of other regular plays across the entire NFL, in super slow mo, to see how often the naked eye actually misses stuff in said "super slo mo"you mean sometimes you might actually need super slow motion replays to see if they left early....?....I thought the refs are supposed to be able to easily see this at real speed.....?.... why do we need super slow mo.....you mean in might be harder then we think to actually see it at live speed....no way....lol...
Its weird, Sirianni was interviewed on the local morning show and said that they teach their players to do exactly what Steen did there; if a defender is in the neutral zone, to reach out and touch them. Said they have to be better at teaching them to do the right thing. I thought I was crazy, but that seems the opposite of what they should be doing on the play.
The difference in comparing jumping early on the tush push and jumping early on typical pass play or typical run play is not as impactful. So while that may happen on other plays it doesn't have the same impact on the play.Also what is missing, for comparison/fairness sake, is a sampling of other regular plays across the entire NFL, in super slow mo, to see how often the naked eye actually misses stuff in said "super slo mo"you mean sometimes you might actually need super slow motion replays to see if they left early....?....I thought the refs are supposed to be able to easily see this at real speed.....?.... why do we need super slow mo.....you mean in might be harder then we think to actually see it at live speed....no way....lol...
I am not saying it's easy to call at all. These micro second early moves and near impossible to see in real time but I do think that the Eagles have gotten really good at jumping the snap to gain that micro second advantage and is a part of the success they have had. Delivering the first blow is critical to the success of the play.you mean sometimes you might actually need super slow motion replays to see if they left early....?....I thought the refs are supposed to be able to easily see this at real speed.....?.... why do we need super slow mo.....you mean in might be harder then we think to actually see it at live speed....no way....lol...
that makes no sense by Sirianni. That can't be what he meant. Maybe he meant he taught them to reach out and touch them when they jump into the neutral zone and the player was confused?
There was not a penalty on Detroit. The rest of this post is a laughable excuse.
You might be surprised to hear this, but I also have had heard that basically verbatim for like 5-7 years "Lane Johnson jumps early on every pass play"The difference in comparing jumping early on the tush push and jumping early on typical pass play or typical run play is not as impactful. So while that may happen on other plays it doesn't have the same impact on the play.Also what is missing, for comparison/fairness sake, is a sampling of other regular plays across the entire NFL, in super slow mo, to see how often the naked eye actually misses stuff in said "super slo mo"you mean sometimes you might actually need super slow motion replays to see if they left early....?....I thought the refs are supposed to be able to easily see this at real speed.....?.... why do we need super slow mo.....you mean in might be harder then we think to actually see it at live speed....no way....lol...
(this is not saying that it's ok to false start on other plays. All false starts should be called regardless of the play. It is only stating the impact is typically more for the tush push than any other play).
bolded......uh.....ever hear of a guy named Jawaan Taylor for KC....dude is a walking penalty flag....You might be surprised to hear this, but I also have had heard that basically verbatim for like 5-7 years "Lane Johnson jumps early on every pass play"The difference in comparing jumping early on the tush push and jumping early on typical pass play or typical run play is not as impactful. So while that may happen on other plays it doesn't have the same impact on the play.Also what is missing, for comparison/fairness sake, is a sampling of other regular plays across the entire NFL, in super slow mo, to see how often the naked eye actually misses stuff in said "super slo mo"you mean sometimes you might actually need super slow motion replays to see if they left early....?....I thought the refs are supposed to be able to easily see this at real speed.....?.... why do we need super slow mo.....you mean in might be harder then we think to actually see it at live speed....no way....lol...
(this is not saying that it's ok to false start on other plays. All false starts should be called regardless of the play. It is only stating the impact is typically more for the tush push than any other play).
Maybe its a thing where I'm too sensitive about as an Eagles fan? I dunno I can't think of any other OT I hear these things about.
Its like as if even if he did jump early, for argument sake, its the reason he is so great and going into the Hall of Fame
But I digress, I get your point, but my over arching point would be to compare the stats and then if the %s are equal or close, it would debunk the whole "Must ban play/refs can't get false starts right" if its something that truly goes across the board on all plays - run, pass, QB sneaks, Special Teams snaps..etc
Well lol I guess I should say and clarify "with it not being true"bolded......uh.....ever hear of a guy named Jawaan Taylor for KC....dude is a walking penalty flag....You might be surprised to hear this, but I also have had heard that basically verbatim for like 5-7 years "Lane Johnson jumps early on every pass play"The difference in comparing jumping early on the tush push and jumping early on typical pass play or typical run play is not as impactful. So while that may happen on other plays it doesn't have the same impact on the play.Also what is missing, for comparison/fairness sake, is a sampling of other regular plays across the entire NFL, in super slow mo, to see how often the naked eye actually misses stuff in said "super slo mo"you mean sometimes you might actually need super slow motion replays to see if they left early....?....I thought the refs are supposed to be able to easily see this at real speed.....?.... why do we need super slow mo.....you mean in might be harder then we think to actually see it at live speed....no way....lol...
(this is not saying that it's ok to false start on other plays. All false starts should be called regardless of the play. It is only stating the impact is typically more for the tush push than any other play).
Maybe its a thing where I'm too sensitive about as an Eagles fan? I dunno I can't think of any other OT I hear these things about.
Its like as if even if he did jump early, for argument sake, its the reason he is so great and going into the Hall of Fame
But I digress, I get your point, but my over arching point would be to compare the stats and then if the %s are equal or close, it would debunk the whole "Must ban play/refs can't get false starts right" if its something that truly goes across the board on all plays - run, pass, QB sneaks, Special Teams snaps..etc
I didn't say you were saying it was easy....my response is snark at those who apparently took offense to me saying that it is difficult to officiate at real speed and they may not understand....yet many in here do understand and admit that unless they see it in slow mo it is hard to see/process....the thing is..... at real speed, the side refs have to be 100% they were early before they throw the flag....they can't guess....and that milisecond is tough to process at real speed....I am not saying it's easy to call at all. These micro second early moves and near impossible to see in real time but I do think that the Eagles have gotten really good at jumping the snap to gain that micro second advantage and is a part of the success they have had. Delivering the first blow is critical to the success of the play.you mean sometimes you might actually need super slow motion replays to see if they left early....?....I thought the refs are supposed to be able to easily see this at real speed.....?.... why do we need super slow mo.....you mean in might be harder then we think to actually see it at live speed....no way....lol...
What is this I bolded? Are you suggesting QB sneaks have a ....1 in 2 chance for failure??I bring up new info: the fact the Lions were successful in stopping this play and notice how not one post since then said anything about their technique..etc.
Just more of the same narrative
I see you
It's pretty obvious what has happened. No more "jumping the snap" for Philly... so now it's just another 50/50 QB sneak.
The cheat code has been taken away.
Probably good for Barkley owners ROS. Not so much for Hurts owners.
I kind of disagree with this....for it's purpose....picking up a yard give or take.....it might be one of the most effective plays in the game....even without a jump....What is this I bolded? Are you suggesting QB sneaks have a ....1 in 2 chance for failure??I bring up new info: the fact the Lions were successful in stopping this play and notice how not one post since then said anything about their technique..etc.
Just more of the same narrative
I see you
It's pretty obvious what has happened. No more "jumping the snap" for Philly... so now it's just another 50/50 QB sneak.
The cheat code has been taken away.
Probably good for Barkley owners ROS. Not so much for Hurts owners.
Without "the jump" for the guards, the tush push is *** (just another play)... not the unstoppable force of nature where first one to the bottom wins.
Yeah, we can agree to disagree. I am of the belief that "the jump" is what differentiates an unstoppable play from a sometimes stoppable play. Results from SNF seem to support these claims (with PHI now under a microscope).I kind of disagree with this....for it's purpose....picking up a yard give or take.....it might be one of the most effective plays in the game....even without a jump....What is this I bolded? Are you suggesting QB sneaks have a ....1 in 2 chance for failure??I bring up new info: the fact the Lions were successful in stopping this play and notice how not one post since then said anything about their technique..etc.
Just more of the same narrative
I see you
It's pretty obvious what has happened. No more "jumping the snap" for Philly... so now it's just another 50/50 QB sneak.
The cheat code has been taken away.
Probably good for Barkley owners ROS. Not so much for Hurts owners.
Without "the jump" for the guards, the tush push is *** (just another play)... not the unstoppable force of nature where first one to the bottom wins.
Is there news or observation about Philadelphia being "under a microscope" about it? Was there a warning given out? Asking genuinely.Yeah, we can agree to disagree. I am of the belief that "the jump" is what differentiates an unstoppable play from a sometimes stoppable play. Results from SNF seem to support these claims (with PHI now under a microscope).I kind of disagree with this....for it's purpose....picking up a yard give or take.....it might be one of the most effective plays in the game....even without a jump....What is this I bolded? Are you suggesting QB sneaks have a ....1 in 2 chance for failure??I bring up new info: the fact the Lions were successful in stopping this play and notice how not one post since then said anything about their technique..etc.
Just more of the same narrative
I see you
It's pretty obvious what has happened. No more "jumping the snap" for Philly... so now it's just another 50/50 QB sneak.
The cheat code has been taken away.
Probably good for Barkley owners ROS. Not so much for Hurts owners.
Without "the jump" for the guards, the tush push is *** (just another play)... not the unstoppable force of nature where first one to the bottom wins.
Let's see going forward.
Is there news or observation about Philadelphia being "under a microscope" about it? Was there a warning given out? Asking genuinely.Yeah, we can agree to disagree. I am of the belief that "the jump" is what differentiates an unstoppable play from a sometimes stoppable play. Results from SNF seem to support these claims (with PHI now under a microscope).I kind of disagree with this....for it's purpose....picking up a yard give or take.....it might be one of the most effective plays in the game....even without a jump....What is this I bolded? Are you suggesting QB sneaks have a ....1 in 2 chance for failure??I bring up new info: the fact the Lions were successful in stopping this play and notice how not one post since then said anything about their technique..etc.
Just more of the same narrative
I see you
It's pretty obvious what has happened. No more "jumping the snap" for Philly... so now it's just another 50/50 QB sneak.
The cheat code has been taken away.
Probably good for Barkley owners ROS. Not so much for Hurts owners.
Without "the jump" for the guards, the tush push is *** (just another play)... not the unstoppable force of nature where first one to the bottom wins.
Let's see going forward.
Can you provide any supporting information other than your belief? Because, as I've stated about 7 times in this thread, there is simply no evidence outside of three or four replays shown over and over again of Steen jumping a hair early. They've been running this play for four years. They ran it over 100 times last year. This idea that you keep believing in was not even a thing all of last year. Last year it was "player safety"-another claim that everyone believed but was not backed up by any actual data. Now its, "the play only works when the guard jumps a split second early". Again, if you can point me to some montage of like 60 or 70 times that this play is run succesfully because of the early jump, then I'll concede the point. The reality is that I don't think you can produce 10 examples of what you are saying "makes this an unstoppable play".Yeah, we can agree to disagree. I am of the belief that "the jump" is what differentiates an unstoppable play from a sometimes stoppable play. Results from SNF seem to support these claims (with PHI now under a microscope).I kind of disagree with this....for it's purpose....picking up a yard give or take.....it might be one of the most effective plays in the game....even without a jump....What is this I bolded? Are you suggesting QB sneaks have a ....1 in 2 chance for failure??I bring up new info: the fact the Lions were successful in stopping this play and notice how not one post since then said anything about their technique..etc.
Just more of the same narrative
I see you
It's pretty obvious what has happened. No more "jumping the snap" for Philly... so now it's just another 50/50 QB sneak.
The cheat code has been taken away.
Probably good for Barkley owners ROS. Not so much for Hurts owners.
Without "the jump" for the guards, the tush push is *** (just another play)... not the unstoppable force of nature where first one to the bottom wins.
Let's see going forward.
The most important players on this play are LT Jordan Mailata, LG Landon Dickerson and C Cam Jurgens (previously C Jason Kelce). There is a reason that Jalen runs this play to the left, behind Cam. For the plays where it was stuffed, Cam Jurgens was not on the field, his backup Brett Toth was in. This is why those two times they were stuffed.Is there news or observation about Philadelphia being "under a microscope" about it? Was there a warning given out? Asking genuinely.Yeah, we can agree to disagree. I am of the belief that "the jump" is what differentiates an unstoppable play from a sometimes stoppable play. Results from SNF seem to support these claims (with PHI now under a microscope).I kind of disagree with this....for it's purpose....picking up a yard give or take.....it might be one of the most effective plays in the game....even without a jump....What is this I bolded? Are you suggesting QB sneaks have a ....1 in 2 chance for failure??I bring up new info: the fact the Lions were successful in stopping this play and notice how not one post since then said anything about their technique..etc.
Just more of the same narrative
I see you
It's pretty obvious what has happened. No more "jumping the snap" for Philly... so now it's just another 50/50 QB sneak.
The cheat code has been taken away.
Probably good for Barkley owners ROS. Not so much for Hurts owners.
Without "the jump" for the guards, the tush push is *** (just another play)... not the unstoppable force of nature where first one to the bottom wins.
Let's see going forward.
Nothing "official"... but I would bet heavily that both PHI and NFL refs have been put on notice. Too much noise up to - and after - the NYG game for there not to be.
I think that's why Hurts "surfed" into the end zone on that first one... Eagles O-line lost the low ground. The two 4th QTR stops they lost it again, but the DET LBs filled in over the top and it was stuffed back-to-back plays. Refs saved Nick Siriani from a potential "got a lot to answer to" moment thanks to that fabricated defensive PI call that sealed the game.
I’m reading into this that you hate the play because officials allow false starts and it should be banned.Can you provide any supporting information other than your belief? Because, as I've stated about 7 times in this thread, there is simply no evidence outside of three or four replays shown over and over again of Steen jumping a hair early. They've been running this play for four years. They ran it over 100 times last year. This idea that you keep believing in was not even a thing all of last year. Last year it was "player safety"-another claim that everyone believed but was not backed up by any actual data. Now its, "the play only works when the guard jumps a split second early". Again, if you can point me to some montage of like 60 or 70 times that this play is run succesfully because of the early jump, then I'll concede the point. The reality is that I don't think you can produce 10 examples of what you are saying "makes this an unstoppable play".Yeah, we can agree to disagree. I am of the belief that "the jump" is what differentiates an unstoppable play from a sometimes stoppable play. Results from SNF seem to support these claims (with PHI now under a microscope).I kind of disagree with this....for it's purpose....picking up a yard give or take.....it might be one of the most effective plays in the game....even without a jump....What is this I bolded? Are you suggesting QB sneaks have a ....1 in 2 chance for failure??I bring up new info: the fact the Lions were successful in stopping this play and notice how not one post since then said anything about their technique..etc.
Just more of the same narrative
I see you
It's pretty obvious what has happened. No more "jumping the snap" for Philly... so now it's just another 50/50 QB sneak.
The cheat code has been taken away.
Probably good for Barkley owners ROS. Not so much for Hurts owners.
Without "the jump" for the guards, the tush push is *** (just another play)... not the unstoppable force of nature where first one to the bottom wins.
Let's see going forward.
