Solar Panels buyers remorse (1 Viewer)

[matttyl]

7 years in, no regrets here. Save about $500-$600 a year. I use about 53% of what I generate, sell the rest back to the grid at $.06 /kWhr

You must have a huge south facing roof with tons of sunlight, with a very efficient house. Covering half my roof (the entire east facing side) would only offset about 75% of my electricity use.

East facing isn’t ideal. South is best, but it depends a little on your latitude. Mine are SE and SW.

offsetting 70%-75% of your yearly use is actually a good target. That’s what mine is. More than that isn’t a good ROI unless you get full price for what you put back on the grid or are also doing battery backup. if an installer is trying to sell you more than that, don’t go with them.

What I mean is that the only place on house where I’d want solar panels would be on rear so they couldn’t be seen from street. That’s the eastern facing roof, with a typical pitch. Covering that side (both house and attached garage roof) would offset about 75% of electricity use (from a quote I had done a few years ago, not sure if still accurate). I’d also like to get an EV in the next few years which would obviously increase electricity use, but at the same time also replace older electric water heater and upgrade our older heat pumps now that there is a 30% tax credit to do so.

 

[BlackCrowes]

7 years in, no regrets here. Save about $500-$600 a year. I use about 53% of what I generate, sell the rest back to the grid at $.06 /kWhr

You must have a huge south facing roof with tons of sunlight, with a very efficient house. Covering half my roof (the entire east facing side) would only offset about 75% of my electricity use.

East facing isn’t ideal. South is best, but it depends a little on your latitude. Mine are SE and SW.

offsetting 70%-75% of your yearly use is actually a good target. That’s what mine is. More than that isn’t a good ROI unless you get full price for what you put back on the grid or are also doing battery backup. if an installer is trying to sell you more than that, don’t go with them.

What I mean is that the only place on house where I’d want solar panels would be on rear so they couldn’t be seen from street. That’s the eastern facing roof, with a typical pitch. Covering that side (both house and attached garage roof) would offset about 75% of electricity use (from a quote I had done a few years ago, not sure if still accurate). I’d also like to get an EV in the next few years which would obviously increase electricity use, but at the same time also replace older electric water heater and upgrade our older heat pumps now that there is a 30% tax credit to do so.

yeah aesthetics can be a consideration. wasn't for me, but i get it. i'm about to replace a 19 year old HVAC system with a heat pump, so my electricity usage will go up, but my % of solar used will also go up since i'll start using more of it in the winter, so offsets a little. that reminds me i have to find ChiefD's thread and ask him a heat pump question.

 

[matttyl]

7 years in, no regrets here. Save about $500-$600 a year. I use about 53% of what I generate, sell the rest back to the grid at $.06 /kWhr

You must have a huge south facing roof with tons of sunlight, with a very efficient house. Covering half my roof (the entire east facing side) would only offset about 75% of my electricity use.

East facing isn’t ideal. South is best, but it depends a little on your latitude. Mine are SE and SW.

offsetting 70%-75% of your yearly use is actually a good target. That’s what mine is. More than that isn’t a good ROI unless you get full price for what you put back on the grid or are also doing battery backup. if an installer is trying to sell you more than that, don’t go with them.

What I mean is that the only place on house where I’d want solar panels would be on rear so they couldn’t be seen from street. That’s the eastern facing roof, with a typical pitch. Covering that side (both house and attached garage roof) would offset about 75% of electricity use (from a quote I had done a few years ago, not sure if still accurate). I’d also like to get an EV in the next few years which would obviously increase electricity use, but at the same time also replace older electric water heater and upgrade our older heat pumps now that there is a 30% tax credit to do so.

yeah aesthetics can be a consideration. wasn't for me, but i get it. i'm about to replace a 19 year old HVAC system with a heat pump, so my electricity usage will go up, but my % of solar used will also go up since i'll start using more of it in the winter, so offsets a little. that reminds me i have to find ChiefD's thread and ask him a heat pump question.

What’s your question? I have two units now (13 and 14 years old - two zone system) and looking into replacing both. Have done a bit of homework to see potential energy savings over current units, and what it takes to qualify for current tax credits.

 

[Joe Bryant]

There is probably a thread on this so apologies for starting a new one, but I couldn't find it

So I purchased solar panels yesterday. Salesman made it sound very good. I had sat through a presentation before it also sounded good but it turned out to be a 20 year lease on the panels so I nixed that one.

Anyway these things are very expensive to the tune of 49 grand. Getting them financed so it's like a 2nd mortgage. 25 year financing agreement. The payment is $188 a month. So according to salesman my electric bill should decrease enough that between two payments it still would be about $75 cheaper than my average bill. Now I'm thinking with interest on this loan will I really be saving anything. Really starting to have some buyers remorse. I'm in Florida so I have 72 hours to cancel the whole deal.

Has anyone done this and what were the results? There is also a $15000 tax credit but I really don't have enough taxable income to make that a big deal. Did I screw up?

Unless you just have money to throw around and 49,000 isn't a big expense, I'd cancel and do more homework and then make a decision. That seems like a ton of money.

LOL. Sorry, I didn't realize the OP was a few years old.

 

[the moops]

What I mean is that the only place on house where I’d want solar panels would be on rear so they couldn’t be seen from street.

Is this solely an aesthetic thing? I don't give a **** about what my roof looks like

 

[matttyl]

What I mean is that the only place on house where I’d want solar panels would be on rear so they couldn’t be seen from street.

Is this solely an aesthetic thing? I don't give a **** about what my roof looks like

Yes, it is, and I do. So does my wife.

 

[jobarules]

What I mean is that the only place on house where I’d want solar panels would be on rear so they couldn’t be seen from street.

Is this solely an aesthetic thing? I don't give a **** about what my roof looks like

Yes, it is, and I do. So does my wife.

So do I.

 

[stlrams]

Getting solar for a commercial property I own that we operate as preschool. just got new roof in April and install date tentatively set for June. The ac runs nonstop during summer so my annual electric bill about $4,000. Pay back about 7 years. Most of system will be on the backside.

 

[the moops]

What I mean is that the only place on house where I’d want solar panels would be on rear so they couldn’t be seen from street.

Is this solely an aesthetic thing? I don't give a **** about what my roof looks like

Yes, it is, and I do. So does my wife.

So do I.

Would the solar shingles have appeal to you both?

 

[BlackCrowes]

7 years in, no regrets here. Save about $500-$600 a year. I use about 53% of what I generate, sell the rest back to the grid at $.06 /kWhr

You must have a huge south facing roof with tons of sunlight, with a very efficient house. Covering half my roof (the entire east facing side) would only offset about 75% of my electricity use.

East facing isn’t ideal. South is best, but it depends a little on your latitude. Mine are SE and SW.

offsetting 70%-75% of your yearly use is actually a good target. That’s what mine is. More than that isn’t a good ROI unless you get full price for what you put back on the grid or are also doing battery backup. if an installer is trying to sell you more than that, don’t go with them.

What I mean is that the only place on house where I’d want solar panels would be on rear so they couldn’t be seen from street. That’s the eastern facing roof, with a typical pitch. Covering that side (both house and attached garage roof) would offset about 75% of electricity use (from a quote I had done a few years ago, not sure if still accurate). I’d also like to get an EV in the next few years which would obviously increase electricity use, but at the same time also replace older electric water heater and upgrade our older heat pumps now that there is a 30% tax credit to do so.

yeah aesthetics can be a consideration. wasn't for me, but i get it. i'm about to replace a 19 year old HVAC system with a heat pump, so my electricity usage will go up, but my % of solar used will also go up since i'll start using more of it in the winter, so offsets a little. that reminds me i have to find ChiefD's thread and ask him a heat pump question.

What’s your question? I have two units now (13 and 14 years old - two zone system) and looking into replacing both. Have done a bit of homework to see potential energy savings over current units, and what it takes to qualify for current tax credits.

ok. if i figure out how much ccf my current gas furnace needed last year to heat my house, and considering its efficiency (80%), i convert that to equivalent kW-hr of energy. Let's say it's 9000. i understand that most modern heat pumps need 1kW-hr of electricity to produce 3kW-hr of heat energy (around 300% efficient). So does that mean my new heat pump (HSPF of 9) will need around 3000 kW-hr of electricity to accomplish the same thing as the gas furnace its replacing? TIA @ChiefD

 

[matttyl]

What I mean is that the only place on house where I’d want solar panels would be on rear so they couldn’t be seen from street.

Is this solely an aesthetic thing? I don't give a **** about what my roof looks like

Yes, it is, and I do. So does my wife.

So do I.

Would the solar shingles have appeal to you both?

Yes, though from what I’ve seen those would be more expensive, and are a newer tech where the panels seem to have worked the kinks out.

 

[matttyl]

7 years in, no regrets here. Save about $500-$600 a year. I use about 53% of what I generate, sell the rest back to the grid at $.06 /kWhr

You must have a huge south facing roof with tons of sunlight, with a very efficient house. Covering half my roof (the entire east facing side) would only offset about 75% of my electricity use.

East facing isn’t ideal. South is best, but it depends a little on your latitude. Mine are SE and SW.

offsetting 70%-75% of your yearly use is actually a good target. That’s what mine is. More than that isn’t a good ROI unless you get full price for what you put back on the grid or are also doing battery backup. if an installer is trying to sell you more than that, don’t go with them.

What I mean is that the only place on house where I’d want solar panels would be on rear so they couldn’t be seen from street. That’s the eastern facing roof, with a typical pitch. Covering that side (both house and attached garage roof) would offset about 75% of electricity use (from a quote I had done a few years ago, not sure if still accurate). I’d also like to get an EV in the next few years which would obviously increase electricity use, but at the same time also replace older electric water heater and upgrade our older heat pumps now that there is a 30% tax credit to do so.

yeah aesthetics can be a consideration. wasn't for me, but i get it. i'm about to replace a 19 year old HVAC system with a heat pump, so my electricity usage will go up, but my % of solar used will also go up since i'll start using more of it in the winter, so offsets a little. that reminds me i have to find ChiefD's thread and ask him a heat pump question.

What’s your question? I have two units now (13 and 14 years old - two zone system) and looking into replacing both. Have done a bit of homework to see potential energy savings over current units, and what it takes to qualify for current tax credits.

ok. if i figure out how much ccf my current gas furnace needed last year to heat my house, and considering its efficiency (80%), i convert that to equivalent kW-hr of energy. Let's say it's 9000. i understand that most modern heat pumps need 1kW-hr of electricity to produce 3kW-hr of heat energy (around 300% efficient). So does that mean my new heat pump (HSPF of 9) will need around 3000 kW-hr of electricity to accomplish the same thing as the gas furnace its replacing? TIA @ChiefD

I’ll leave that to the pros, though my understanding is that heat pump efficiency can greatly depend on outdoor temperature. Meaning it will be far easier for it to produce heat at say 40 degrees outside than at 10. When it gets much below 30 degrees my heat pump turns off and my unit is running off of the heat strips (so heating my house like a toaster would). That’s very expensive to do.

 

[The Commish]

For anyone thinking of doing this, make sure of the payback to the grid. More and more power companies are fighting to reduce the amount they pay you back and successfully lobbying many states to allow the reductions.

 

[stlrams]

For anyone thinking of doing this, make sure of the payback to the grid. More and more power companies are fighting to reduce the amount they pay you back and successfully lobbying many states to allow the reductions.

I believe most solar companies are building towards 105% of need so payback minimal. That’s per my discussions with several solar companies.

 

[rustycolts]

There is probably a thread on this so apologies for starting a new one, but I couldn't find it

So I purchased solar panels yesterday. Salesman made it sound very good. I had sat through a presentation before it also sounded good but it turned out to be a 20 year lease on the panels so I nixed that one.

Anyway these things are very expensive to the tune of 49 grand. Getting them financed so it's like a 2nd mortgage. 25 year financing agreement. The payment is $188 a month. So according to salesman my electric bill should decrease enough that between two payments it still would be about $75 cheaper than my average bill. Now I'm thinking with interest on this loan will I really be saving anything. Really starting to have some buyers remorse. I'm in Florida so I have 72 hours to cancel the whole deal.

Has anyone done this and what were the results? There is also a $15000 tax credit but I really don't have enough taxable income to make that a big deal. Did I screw up?

Unless you just have money to throw around and 49,000 isn't a big expense, I'd cancel and do more homework and then make a decision. That seems like a ton of money.

LOL. Sorry, I didn't realize the OP was a few years old.

Haha sometimes that happens. I forget what day it is where I am and who I am half the time. Of course I'm old and senile.
I canceled and everything worked out fine. I'm trying not to be such a sucker to high pressure sales.

 

[dkp993]

For anyone thinking of doing this, make sure of the payback to the grid. More and more power companies are fighting to reduce the amount they pay you back and successfully lobbying many states to allow the reductions.

I believe most solar companies are building towards 105% of need so payback minimal. That’s per my discussions with several solar companies.

My was designed for 105%

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

What I mean is that the only place on house where I’d want solar panels would be on rear so they couldn’t be seen from street.

Is this solely an aesthetic thing? I don't give a **** about what my roof looks like

Yes, it is, and I do. So does my wife.

We have an east/west oriented house. The south-facing roof is covered in panels, as is the east-facing roof. None of this interferes with the curb appeal at all. The panels are hardly visible.

 

[Val Rannous]

I mentioned this in the EV thread, but maybe this is a better place. How have the power walls been working? How much did they cost (nm, I see $7-8K each), and how did you determine how much to oversize?

The Powerwalls are excellent. For example, the last couple of days here have been stormy, and we've had a couple of short power outages. Or rather, the Tesla app tells us that the grid dropped out twice - we never noticed, the lights didn't even flicker. Smooth as can be. For day to day usage, they extend the period we can be self sufficient and just not worry - no bad Texas grid, no winter or summer storm fears (not gonna freeze again!), just clean, free power all the time.

The oversize was based on an estimate of regular daily usage - I looked at our bills back over the previous year before we purchased, divided the number of days into the Kilowatt hours used in cycle to determine a baseline for standard daily usage, then made darn sure we had at least that much power storage. As Mrs. R has mentioned, I work from home, and my job is very time sensitive (I work for a bank doing things that have to happen on schedule daily). That meant my primary concern was to make sure we could ignore any outage no matter the duration. As we averaged around 35 kWh usage daily, a storage of 3 Powerwalls at 13.5 kWh for a total of 40.5 kWh gives us a minimum of at least a full 24 hours run time, plus any sunlight during that 24 hours extends the time. Our panels generate up to 12.4 kW, so even during the winter on a partly cloudy day we generate at least 40 to 50 kWh. In a worst case scenario, on a pitch black stormy day, I've got enough storage to stretch to the following day and hope to catch up on sunlight then. And all that's without considering conserving power by cutting out non-essential usage.

I know most people are more concerned with cost and return on investment, but for us it was more of security, comfort, and ongoing functionality of my computer gear. The Powerwalls make anything as prosaic as generators or cheap battery backups laughably pale in comparison. And as far as ROI goes, they DO allow us to act as if the sun shines here 24/7, greatly improving the capabilities of the solar panels.

 

[Val Rannous]

For anyone thinking of doing this, make sure of the payback to the grid. More and more power companies are fighting to reduce the amount they pay you back and successfully lobbying many states to allow the reductions.

There are other options for making it pay other than just how much payback you can get with Net Metering. We recently added a big power drain to the house (2500 gallon heated swim spa that sucks almost as much power as the rest of the house on a daily basis - or at least it has so far this winter). The added power draw meant we were no longer able to go around the clock on just solar and Powerwalls, as we were only generating about 80% of the daily usage. So we switched to a plan that doesn't include a net metering payback - instead we're now doing free nights. The solar and Powerwalls easily cover the 6AM to 8PM period where I'm charged basically double standard usage rate to use the grid, and I pay not a red cent to use the grid the rest of the time. This saves the Powerwall storage for emergency outages, and I have the swim spa scheduled to heat only during the night when it's free. This stunt works great with charging an electric car as well. The only thing we pay is the connectivity charge each month, so unless something weird happens and we have to draw grid power during the day, our monthly bill is just $4.95.

 

[ChiefD]

7 years in, no regrets here. Save about $500-$600 a year. I use about 53% of what I generate, sell the rest back to the grid at $.06 /kWhr

You must have a huge south facing roof with tons of sunlight, with a very efficient house. Covering half my roof (the entire east facing side) would only offset about 75% of my electricity use.

East facing isn’t ideal. South is best, but it depends a little on your latitude. Mine are SE and SW.

offsetting 70%-75% of your yearly use is actually a good target. That’s what mine is. More than that isn’t a good ROI unless you get full price for what you put back on the grid or are also doing battery backup. if an installer is trying to sell you more than that, don’t go with them.

What I mean is that the only place on house where I’d want solar panels would be on rear so they couldn’t be seen from street. That’s the eastern facing roof, with a typical pitch. Covering that side (both house and attached garage roof) would offset about 75% of electricity use (from a quote I had done a few years ago, not sure if still accurate). I’d also like to get an EV in the next few years which would obviously increase electricity use, but at the same time also replace older electric water heater and upgrade our older heat pumps now that there is a 30% tax credit to do so.

yeah aesthetics can be a consideration. wasn't for me, but i get it. i'm about to replace a 19 year old HVAC system with a heat pump, so my electricity usage will go up, but my % of solar used will also go up since i'll start using more of it in the winter, so offsets a little. that reminds me i have to find ChiefD's thread and ask him a heat pump question.

What’s your question? I have two units now (13 and 14 years old - two zone system) and looking into replacing both. Have done a bit of homework to see potential energy savings over current units, and what it takes to qualify for current tax credits.

ok. if i figure out how much ccf my current gas furnace needed last year to heat my house, and considering its efficiency (80%), i convert that to equivalent kW-hr of energy. Let's say it's 9000. i understand that most modern heat pumps need 1kW-hr of electricity to produce 3kW-hr of heat energy (around 300% efficient). So does that mean my new heat pump (HSPF of 9) will need around 3000 kW-hr of electricity to accomplish the same thing as the gas furnace its replacing? TIA @ChiefD

What part of the country do you live in?

 

[BlackCrowes]

7 years in, no regrets here. Save about $500-$600 a year. I use about 53% of what I generate, sell the rest back to the grid at $.06 /kWhr

You must have a huge south facing roof with tons of sunlight, with a very efficient house. Covering half my roof (the entire east facing side) would only offset about 75% of my electricity use.

East facing isn’t ideal. South is best, but it depends a little on your latitude. Mine are SE and SW.

offsetting 70%-75% of your yearly use is actually a good target. That’s what mine is. More than that isn’t a good ROI unless you get full price for what you put back on the grid or are also doing battery backup. if an installer is trying to sell you more than that, don’t go with them.

What I mean is that the only place on house where I’d want solar panels would be on rear so they couldn’t be seen from street. That’s the eastern facing roof, with a typical pitch. Covering that side (both house and attached garage roof) would offset about 75% of electricity use (from a quote I had done a few years ago, not sure if still accurate). I’d also like to get an EV in the next few years which would obviously increase electricity use, but at the same time also replace older electric water heater and upgrade our older heat pumps now that there is a 30% tax credit to do so.

yeah aesthetics can be a consideration. wasn't for me, but i get it. i'm about to replace a 19 year old HVAC system with a heat pump, so my electricity usage will go up, but my % of solar used will also go up since i'll start using more of it in the winter, so offsets a little. that reminds me i have to find ChiefD's thread and ask him a heat pump question.

What’s your question? I have two units now (13 and 14 years old - two zone system) and looking into replacing both. Have done a bit of homework to see potential energy savings over current units, and what it takes to qualify for current tax credits.

ok. if i figure out how much ccf my current gas furnace needed last year to heat my house, and considering its efficiency (80%), i convert that to equivalent kW-hr of energy. Let's say it's 9000. i understand that most modern heat pumps need 1kW-hr of electricity to produce 3kW-hr of heat energy (around 300% efficient). So does that mean my new heat pump (HSPF of 9) will need around 3000 kW-hr of electricity to accomplish the same thing as the gas furnace its replacing? TIA @ChiefD

What part of the country do you live in?

central TX

 

[The Commish]

For anyone thinking of doing this, make sure of the payback to the grid. More and more power companies are fighting to reduce the amount they pay you back and successfully lobbying many states to allow the reductions.

I believe most solar companies are building towards 105% of need so payback minimal. That’s per my discussions with several solar companies.

For anyone thinking of doing this, make sure of the payback to the grid. More and more power companies are fighting to reduce the amount they pay you back and successfully lobbying many states to allow the reductions.

I believe most solar companies are building towards 105% of need so payback minimal. That’s per my discussions with several solar companies.

My was designed for 105%

This is fine until your state decides it's ok for the electric company to charge you $10 per unit but only credit you $5 per unit for what you provide back. All I'm saying is people need to understand what is going on in their state. Just because the rules are X today doesn't mean there isn't legislation in the works to make it Y tomorrow. Understand what is allowed and what isn't. For instance, in this state, you aren't allowed to be off the grid completely. We are also charged a $35 minimum every month even if we contribute more back to the grid than we consume.

 

[The Commish]

For anyone thinking of doing this, make sure of the payback to the grid. More and more power companies are fighting to reduce the amount they pay you back and successfully lobbying many states to allow the reductions.

There are other options for making it pay other than just how much payback you can get with Net Metering. We recently added a big power drain to the house (2500 gallon heated swim spa that sucks almost as much power as the rest of the house on a daily basis - or at least it has so far this winter). The added power draw meant we were no longer able to go around the clock on just solar and Powerwalls, as we were only generating about 80% of the daily usage. So we switched to a plan that doesn't include a net metering payback - instead we're now doing free nights. The solar and Powerwalls easily cover the 6AM to 8PM period where I'm charged basically double standard usage rate to use the grid, and I pay not a red cent to use the grid the rest of the time. This saves the Powerwall storage for emergency outages, and I have the swim spa scheduled to heat only during the night when it's free. This stunt works great with charging an electric car as well. The only thing we pay is the connectivity charge each month, so unless something weird happens and we have to draw grid power during the day, our monthly bill is just $4.95.

Another example of what I'm talking about above....we aren't provided these sorts of options in this state. The best we can do is be hooked to the grid and have the intelligence in the system to understand when to draw from a battery and when to use the grid.

 

[Chadstroma]

The sheer volume of salesman pushing these things lately is a big red flag for me. Not sure if it was a mistake, but the slimy sales pitches have me holding off personally.

I had a friend who had a long successful career in retail banking. Made very good money as a branch manager (the most I know of as she was making as much as most regional managers make). She finally got totally burned out on retail banking and was leaving. I was talking to her about mortgage lending which would be a good transition for her. She was thinking about real estate agent which would be another good one. Then she told me that she was also thinking about solar panel sales... I was like "huh?" Apparently good ones can make some decent scratch. Whenever government money (tax breaks) are involved, the economics always get skewered.

 

[Chadstroma]

I think they make your house look less attractive by a wide margin.

Just have her dress up for you and that will get the old flame burning again.

 

[Chadstroma]

I live in AZ where solar panels probably give the most bang for the buck. I've never really investigated them too closely. I think the only way I'd be interested was if I were buying a brand new home that I was intent on living in for the long term and roll it into the mortgage. That said, I've been here for 20 years now and just don't see myself retiring here. My gut says we need to abandon ship at some point as it's only going to get more crowded here, hotter, and water shortage issues will become real.

You can't roll it into the mortgage to buy a new one when buying. Also, if there is a lease, you can't roll that into it either and they can be a PIA when buying or even refinancing on the mortgage. If it is a loan then you can pay it off like any other loan or if there is a buyout lease but it would be a cash out refinance to do it.

 

[simsarge]

 

[BlackCrowes]

Cash back re-fi is what I did. Worked out pretty good.

 

[ChiefD]

ok. if i figure out how much ccf my current gas furnace needed last year to heat my house, and considering its efficiency (80%), i convert that to equivalent kW-hr of energy. Let's say it's 9000. i understand that most modern heat pumps need 1kW-hr of electricity to produce 3kW-hr of heat energy (around 300% efficient). So does that mean my new heat pump (HSPF of 9) will need around 3000 kW-hr of electricity to accomplish the same thing as the gas furnace its replacing? TIA @ChiefD
What part of the country do you live in?

central TX

OK. Just wanted to see if you were in an area where heat pumps are viable, and it sounds like you are.

As for the math above, I have no idea. I've never been one to whittle down my utility bills and production and all that because I believe my gains/losses dollar wise would be minimal. And I simply don't care that much on that because utility prices go up and down so much I'd just drive myself nuts.

So honestly, I can't answer the above question. What I would say is I would never go heat pump and get rid of my gas furnace for the following reasons:

1. The life of a heat pump is about 10-12 years, versus about 18 years old for an air conditioner. So your replacement cost is going to be much faster with a heat pump.

2. You can get a 96% furnace these days, so you are getting .96 of heat for every 1.00 you spend. That's fine with me.

3. I don't want to be tied to one utility. But that's just me.

4. If you go all electric, when that heat pump can't keep up on really cold nights that air handler with back-up heat strips is going to be REALLY expensive to run. Someone mentioned it above - it's basically toaster type coils used to heat your house. They pull A LOT of juice.

If you start getting pricing and such or have other questions, go ahead and post in that other thread so we don't clutter up this page. I can definitely tell you if you are getting a fair deal or not.

 

[playin4beer]

ok. if i figure out how much ccf my current gas furnace needed last year to heat my house, and considering its efficiency (80%), i convert that to equivalent kW-hr of energy. Let's say it's 9000. i understand that most modern heat pumps need 1kW-hr of electricity to produce 3kW-hr of heat energy (around 300% efficient). So does that mean my new heat pump (HSPF of 9) will need around 3000 kW-hr of electricity to accomplish the same thing as the gas furnace its replacing? TIA @ChiefD
What part of the country do you live in?

central TX

OK. Just wanted to see if you were in an area where heat pumps are viable, and it sounds like you are.

As for the math above, I have no idea. I've never been one to whittle down my utility bills and production and all that because I believe my gains/losses dollar wise would be minimal. And I simply don't care that much on that because utility prices go up and down so much I'd just drive myself nuts.

So honestly, I can't answer the above question. What I would say is I would never go heat pump and get rid of my gas furnace for the following reasons:

1. The life of a heat pump is about 10-12 years, versus about 18 years old for an air conditioner. So your replacement cost is going to be much faster with a heat pump.

2. You can get a 96% furnace these days, so you are getting .96 of heat for every 1.00 you spend. That's fine with me.

3. I don't want to be tied to one utility. But that's just me.

4. If you go all electric, when that heat pump can't keep up on really cold nights that air handler with back-up heat strips is going to be REALLY expensive to run. Someone mentioned it above - it's basically toaster type coils used to heat your house. They pull A LOT of juice.

If you start getting pricing and such or have other questions, go ahead and post in that other thread so we don't clutter up this page. I can definitely tell you if you are getting a fair deal or not.

I have a geothermal ground water heat pump... I'm in Michigan and the only time the electric coils have kicked in on mine is when the geothermal itself had an issue and the "emergency heat" kicked on.. and yes, I could see the meter spinning.. my electric bill was HUGE that Month because I didn't realize the geothermal was out and running on the electric coils for almost a week.

 

[Chadstroma]

Cash back re-fi is what I did. Worked out pretty good.

It is an option for sure but it is important to note and understand that cash out refi's are more expensive than a rate/term refinance. Meaning... if you do a refi with cash out, you are going to have a higher rate and/or cost to the loan than you would have if you simply are looking to refinance your mortgage and get a better rate.

 

[Val Rannous]

I don't want to be tied to one utility. But that's just me.

My way of looking at it was "I don't want to be tied to ANY utility". To run a gas furnace I need the gas company to be up and functional, and I don't necessarily trust that, although they're easier to trust than the power grid. I can be independent with the heat pump, solar, and batteries.

If you go all electric, when that heat pump can't keep up on really cold nights that air handler with back-up heat strips is going to be REALLY expensive to run. Someone mentioned it above - it's basically toaster type coils used to heat your house. They pull A LOT of juice.

This is absolutely true, although it's only an issue around freezing and below, which we rarely get here in Houston. I do have a gas fireplace as a backup to the heat pump. In another "Texas Freeze of 2021" type situation, my plan is to turn the thermostat down to chilly save the batteries, and use the fireplace to heat a section of the house to huddle in (I don't believe we ever lost gas pressure in the big freeze).

 

[Terminalxylem]

For anyone thinking of doing this, make sure of the payback to the grid. More and more power companies are fighting to reduce the amount they pay you back and successfully lobbying many states to allow the reductions.

There are other options for making it pay other than just how much payback you can get with Net Metering. We recently added a big power drain to the house (2500 gallon heated swim spa that sucks almost as much power as the rest of the house on a daily basis - or at least it has so far this winter). The added power draw meant we were no longer able to go around the clock on just solar and Powerwalls, as we were only generating about 80% of the daily usage. So we switched to a plan that doesn't include a net metering payback - instead we're now doing free nights. The solar and Powerwalls easily cover the 6AM to 8PM period where I'm charged basically double standard usage rate to use the grid, and I pay not a red cent to use the grid the rest of the time. This saves the Powerwall storage for emergency outages, and I have the swim spa scheduled to heat only during the night when it's free. This stunt works great with charging an electric car as well. The only thing we pay is the connectivity charge each month, so unless something weird happens and we have to draw grid power during the day, our monthly bill is just $4.95.

Another example of what I'm talking about above....we aren't provided these sorts of options in this state. The best we can do is be hooked to the grid and have the intelligence in the system to understand when to draw from a battery and when to use the grid.

As I said before, it's crazy FL (where you live, IIRC) doesn’t heavily incentivize solar. It’s the Sunshine State, for Pete’s sake!

Living in a place that‘s just as sunny, with incentives from both the state and electric company, my time to recoup PV installation costs is 4 years, and I’ll save $30+K over the system‘s lifespan. Adding a battery makes the ROI even better, as we have the option to sell back excess power. I don’t plan on moving, so it’s really a no-brainer.

And all that ignores the positive environmental impact, which is arguably the best reason to go solar.

 

[Psychopav]

I am concerned about adding solar to my roof, which is concrete over steel. I worry that the installers will jack up the roof and not be able to fix it. I have lived in the DFW area for almost 8 years now and thus far have not looked into solar as a result.

Is this an irrational fear?

 

[Terminalxylem]

I am concerned about adding solar to my roof, which is concrete over steel. I worry that the installers will jack up the roof and not be able to fix it. I have lived in the DFW area for almost 8 years now and thus far have not looked into solar as a result.

Is this an irrational fear?

No idea if it’s rational, but your roof seems bombproof compared to the shingles through which most PV is installed.

 

[NutterButter]

I was really surprised when driving through Arizona to see so little residential solar. I would think that would be the perfect spot.

 

[dickey moe]

I was really surprised when driving through Arizona to see so little residential solar. I would think that would be the perfect spot.

What is the average electric bill in Arizona? In California the bill is sky-high and solar had become a must.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

I am concerned about adding solar to my roof, which is concrete over steel. I worry that the installers will jack up the roof and not be able to fix it. I have lived in the DFW area for almost 8 years now and thus far have not looked into solar as a result.

Is this an irrational fear?

I think you need to ask a professional. I've never heard of a roof like that.

 

[BlackCrowes]

I don't want to be tied to one utility. But that's just me.

My way of looking at it was "I don't want to be tied to ANY utility". To run a gas furnace I need the gas company to be up and functional, and I don't necessarily trust that, although they're easier to trust than the power grid. I can be independent with the heat pump, solar, and batteries.

If you go all electric, when that heat pump can't keep up on really cold nights that air handler with back-up heat strips is going to be REALLY expensive to run. Someone mentioned it above - it's basically toaster type coils used to heat your house. They pull A LOT of juice.

This is absolutely true, although it's only an issue around freezing and below, which we rarely get here in Houston. I do have a gas fireplace as a backup to the heat pump. In another "Texas Freeze of 2021" type situation, my plan is to turn the thermostat down to chilly save the batteries, and use the fireplace to heat a section of the house to huddle in (I don't believe we ever lost gas pressure in the big freeze).

Same. The literature for the heat pump I’m getting (Carrier Infinity series) says it’s good down to 15 degrees F. Could me just marketing bunk, but I know they have been getting better

 

[matttyl]

I don't want to be tied to one utility. But that's just me.

My way of looking at it was "I don't want to be tied to ANY utility". To run a gas furnace I need the gas company to be up and functional, and I don't necessarily trust that, although they're easier to trust than the power grid. I can be independent with the heat pump, solar, and batteries.

If you go all electric, when that heat pump can't keep up on really cold nights that air handler with back-up heat strips is going to be REALLY expensive to run. Someone mentioned it above - it's basically toaster type coils used to heat your house. They pull A LOT of juice.

This is absolutely true, although it's only an issue around freezing and below, which we rarely get here in Houston. I do have a gas fireplace as a backup to the heat pump. In another "Texas Freeze of 2021" type situation, my plan is to turn the thermostat down to chilly save the batteries, and use the fireplace to heat a section of the house to huddle in (I don't believe we ever lost gas pressure in the big freeze).

Same. The literature for the heat pump I’m getting (Carrier Infinity series) says it’s good down to 15 degrees F. Could me just marketing bunk, but I know they have been getting better

While they can still produce some heat down to that temperature, the question is if it’s enough heat to keep your house warm. With my 10-13 year old heat pumps while they still run down below 20, they aren’t generating enough heat on their own to keep the house heated so the heat strips come on. I also have a gas fireplace (only thing the propane tank is connected to in the house), and use it often when outdoor temps drop below freezing.

 

[The Commish]

For anyone thinking of doing this, make sure of the payback to the grid. More and more power companies are fighting to reduce the amount they pay you back and successfully lobbying many states to allow the reductions.

There are other options for making it pay other than just how much payback you can get with Net Metering. We recently added a big power drain to the house (2500 gallon heated swim spa that sucks almost as much power as the rest of the house on a daily basis - or at least it has so far this winter). The added power draw meant we were no longer able to go around the clock on just solar and Powerwalls, as we were only generating about 80% of the daily usage. So we switched to a plan that doesn't include a net metering payback - instead we're now doing free nights. The solar and Powerwalls easily cover the 6AM to 8PM period where I'm charged basically double standard usage rate to use the grid, and I pay not a red cent to use the grid the rest of the time. This saves the Powerwall storage for emergency outages, and I have the swim spa scheduled to heat only during the night when it's free. This stunt works great with charging an electric car as well. The only thing we pay is the connectivity charge each month, so unless something weird happens and we have to draw grid power during the day, our monthly bill is just $4.95.

Another example of what I'm talking about above....we aren't provided these sorts of options in this state. The best we can do is be hooked to the grid and have the intelligence in the system to understand when to draw from a battery and when to use the grid.

As I said before, it's crazy FL (where you live, IIRC) doesn’t heavily incentivize solar. It’s the Sunshine State, for Pete’s sake!

Living in a place that‘s just as sunny, with incentives from both the state and electric company, my time to recoup PV installation costs is 4 years, and I’ll save $30+K over the system‘s lifespan. Adding a battery makes the ROI even better, as we have the option to sell back excess power. I don’t plan on moving, so it’s really a no-brainer.

And all that ignores the positive environmental impact, which is arguably the best reason to go solar.

Lobbies rule down here...instead, we get "we have to charge you a minimum of $35 a month just to maintain infrastructure" kinds of obstacles.

 

[BlackCrowes]

For anyone thinking of doing this, make sure of the payback to the grid. More and more power companies are fighting to reduce the amount they pay you back and successfully lobbying many states to allow the reductions.

There are other options for making it pay other than just how much payback you can get with Net Metering. We recently added a big power drain to the house (2500 gallon heated swim spa that sucks almost as much power as the rest of the house on a daily basis - or at least it has so far this winter). The added power draw meant we were no longer able to go around the clock on just solar and Powerwalls, as we were only generating about 80% of the daily usage. So we switched to a plan that doesn't include a net metering payback - instead we're now doing free nights. The solar and Powerwalls easily cover the 6AM to 8PM period where I'm charged basically double standard usage rate to use the grid, and I pay not a red cent to use the grid the rest of the time. This saves the Powerwall storage for emergency outages, and I have the swim spa scheduled to heat only during the night when it's free. This stunt works great with charging an electric car as well. The only thing we pay is the connectivity charge each month, so unless something weird happens and we have to draw grid power during the day, our monthly bill is just $4.95.

Another example of what I'm talking about above....we aren't provided these sorts of options in this state. The best we can do is be hooked to the grid and have the intelligence in the system to understand when to draw from a battery and when to use the grid.

As I said before, it's crazy FL (where you live, IIRC) doesn’t heavily incentivize solar. It’s the Sunshine State, for Pete’s sake!

Living in a place that‘s just as sunny, with incentives from both the state and electric company, my time to recoup PV installation costs is 4 years, and I’ll save $30+K over the system‘s lifespan. Adding a battery makes the ROI even better, as we have the option to sell back excess power. I don’t plan on moving, so it’s really a no-brainer.

And all that ignores the positive environmental impact, which is arguably the best reason to go solar.

Lobbies rule down here...instead, we get "we have to charge you a minimum of $35 a month just to maintain infrastructure" kinds of obstacles.

i thought that was pretty common. My base charge is around $25 / month just for being connected to the grid.

 

[The Commish]

For anyone thinking of doing this, make sure of the payback to the grid. More and more power companies are fighting to reduce the amount they pay you back and successfully lobbying many states to allow the reductions.

There are other options for making it pay other than just how much payback you can get with Net Metering. We recently added a big power drain to the house (2500 gallon heated swim spa that sucks almost as much power as the rest of the house on a daily basis - or at least it has so far this winter). The added power draw meant we were no longer able to go around the clock on just solar and Powerwalls, as we were only generating about 80% of the daily usage. So we switched to a plan that doesn't include a net metering payback - instead we're now doing free nights. The solar and Powerwalls easily cover the 6AM to 8PM period where I'm charged basically double standard usage rate to use the grid, and I pay not a red cent to use the grid the rest of the time. This saves the Powerwall storage for emergency outages, and I have the swim spa scheduled to heat only during the night when it's free. This stunt works great with charging an electric car as well. The only thing we pay is the connectivity charge each month, so unless something weird happens and we have to draw grid power during the day, our monthly bill is just $4.95.

Another example of what I'm talking about above....we aren't provided these sorts of options in this state. The best we can do is be hooked to the grid and have the intelligence in the system to understand when to draw from a battery and when to use the grid.

As I said before, it's crazy FL (where you live, IIRC) doesn’t heavily incentivize solar. It’s the Sunshine State, for Pete’s sake!

Living in a place that‘s just as sunny, with incentives from both the state and electric company, my time to recoup PV installation costs is 4 years, and I’ll save $30+K over the system‘s lifespan. Adding a battery makes the ROI even better, as we have the option to sell back excess power. I don’t plan on moving, so it’s really a no-brainer.

And all that ignores the positive environmental impact, which is arguably the best reason to go solar.

Lobbies rule down here...instead, we get "we have to charge you a minimum of $35 a month just to maintain infrastructure" kinds of obstacles.

i thought that was pretty common. My base charge is around $25 / month just for being connected to the grid.

Not sure if it is or not. It wasn't that way when we signed up, so it's new to us. And now there are talks of reducing the amount we are compensated for providing back to the grid, which will obviously mean it takes longer to recoup our investment. It should also be noted that we are REQUIRED to be connected to the grid. It is illegal to not be.

 

[Terminalxylem]

For anyone thinking of doing this, make sure of the payback to the grid. More and more power companies are fighting to reduce the amount they pay you back and successfully lobbying many states to allow the reductions.

There are other options for making it pay other than just how much payback you can get with Net Metering. We recently added a big power drain to the house (2500 gallon heated swim spa that sucks almost as much power as the rest of the house on a daily basis - or at least it has so far this winter). The added power draw meant we were no longer able to go around the clock on just solar and Powerwalls, as we were only generating about 80% of the daily usage. So we switched to a plan that doesn't include a net metering payback - instead we're now doing free nights. The solar and Powerwalls easily cover the 6AM to 8PM period where I'm charged basically double standard usage rate to use the grid, and I pay not a red cent to use the grid the rest of the time. This saves the Powerwall storage for emergency outages, and I have the swim spa scheduled to heat only during the night when it's free. This stunt works great with charging an electric car as well. The only thing we pay is the connectivity charge each month, so unless something weird happens and we have to draw grid power during the day, our monthly bill is just $4.95.

Another example of what I'm talking about above....we aren't provided these sorts of options in this state. The best we can do is be hooked to the grid and have the intelligence in the system to understand when to draw from a battery and when to use the grid.

As I said before, it's crazy FL (where you live, IIRC) doesn’t heavily incentivize solar. It’s the Sunshine State, for Pete’s sake!

Living in a place that‘s just as sunny, with incentives from both the state and electric company, my time to recoup PV installation costs is 4 years, and I’ll save $30+K over the system‘s lifespan. Adding a battery makes the ROI even better, as we have the option to sell back excess power. I don’t plan on moving, so it’s really a no-brainer.

And all that ignores the positive environmental impact, which is arguably the best reason to go solar.

Lobbies rule down here...instead, we get "we have to charge you a minimum of $35 a month just to maintain infrastructure" kinds of obstacles.

i thought that was pretty common. My base charge is around $25 / month just for being connected to the grid.

Not sure if it is or not. It wasn't that way when we signed up, so it's new to us. And now there are talks of reducing the amount we are compensated for providing back to the grid, which will obviously mean it takes longer to recoup our investment. It should also be noted that we are REQUIRED to be connected to the grid. It is illegal to not be.

That’s irritating, but you still can operate independently of the grid, if you have a battery. And HI has one of those maintenance fees for the privilege of accessing the grid as well, around $12, plus there are other random fees for god-knows-what.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

I don't want to be tied to one utility. But that's just me.

My way of looking at it was "I don't want to be tied to ANY utility". To run a gas furnace I need the gas company to be up and functional, and I don't necessarily trust that, although they're easier to trust than the power grid. I can be independent with the heat pump, solar, and batteries.

If you go all electric, when that heat pump can't keep up on really cold nights that air handler with back-up heat strips is going to be REALLY expensive to run. Someone mentioned it above - it's basically toaster type coils used to heat your house. They pull A LOT of juice.

This is absolutely true, although it's only an issue around freezing and below, which we rarely get here in Houston. I do have a gas fireplace as a backup to the heat pump. In another "Texas Freeze of 2021" type situation, my plan is to turn the thermostat down to chilly save the batteries, and use the fireplace to heat a section of the house to huddle in (I don't believe we ever lost gas pressure in the big freeze).

Same. The literature for the heat pump I’m getting (Carrier Infinity series) says it’s good down to 15 degrees F. Could me just marketing bunk, but I know they have been getting better

While they can still produce some heat down to that temperature, the question is if it’s enough heat to keep your house warm. With my 10-13 year old heat pumps while they still run down below 20, they aren’t generating enough heat on their own to keep the house heated so the heat strips come on. I also have a gas fireplace (only thing the propane tank is connected to in the house), and use it often when outdoor temps drop below freezing.

Efficiency has greatly improved in the last decade. That would account for the difference, I should think.

 

[Val Rannous]

For anyone thinking of doing this, make sure of the payback to the grid. More and more power companies are fighting to reduce the amount they pay you back and successfully lobbying many states to allow the reductions.

There are other options for making it pay other than just how much payback you can get with Net Metering. We recently added a big power drain to the house (2500 gallon heated swim spa that sucks almost as much power as the rest of the house on a daily basis - or at least it has so far this winter). The added power draw meant we were no longer able to go around the clock on just solar and Powerwalls, as we were only generating about 80% of the daily usage. So we switched to a plan that doesn't include a net metering payback - instead we're now doing free nights. The solar and Powerwalls easily cover the 6AM to 8PM period where I'm charged basically double standard usage rate to use the grid, and I pay not a red cent to use the grid the rest of the time. This saves the Powerwall storage for emergency outages, and I have the swim spa scheduled to heat only during the night when it's free. This stunt works great with charging an electric car as well. The only thing we pay is the connectivity charge each month, so unless something weird happens and we have to draw grid power during the day, our monthly bill is just $4.95.

Another example of what I'm talking about above....we aren't provided these sorts of options in this state. The best we can do is be hooked to the grid and have the intelligence in the system to understand when to draw from a battery and when to use the grid.

As I said before, it's crazy FL (where you live, IIRC) doesn’t heavily incentivize solar. It’s the Sunshine State, for Pete’s sake!

Living in a place that‘s just as sunny, with incentives from both the state and electric company, my time to recoup PV installation costs is 4 years, and I’ll save $30+K over the system‘s lifespan. Adding a battery makes the ROI even better, as we have the option to sell back excess power. I don’t plan on moving, so it’s really a no-brainer.

And all that ignores the positive environmental impact, which is arguably the best reason to go solar.

Lobbies rule down here...instead, we get "we have to charge you a minimum of $35 a month just to maintain infrastructure" kinds of obstacles.

i thought that was pretty common. My base charge is around $25 / month just for being connected to the grid.

Not sure if it is or not. It wasn't that way when we signed up, so it's new to us. And now there are talks of reducing the amount we are compensated for providing back to the grid, which will obviously mean it takes longer to recoup our investment. It should also be noted that we are REQUIRED to be connected to the grid. It is illegal to not be.

That’s irritating, but you still can operate independently of the grid, if you have a battery. And HI has one of those maintenance fees for the privilege of accessing the grid as well, around $12, plus there are other random fees for god-knows-what.

Texas has a fairly low connection fee (roughly $5), and your payment per kW is split between the electricity provider, plus a minimal fee to the infrastructure maintainer (here those are separate companies).

 

[Dezbelief]

I was really surprised when driving through Arizona to see so little residential solar. I would think that would be the perfect spot.

Arizona did away with net metering in 2016. Utility companies buy back electricity at the lowest rate electricity can be produced in Arizona, even lower than the wholesale rate.

 

[NutterButter]

I was really surprised when driving through Arizona to see so little residential solar. I would think that would be the perfect spot.

Arizona did away with net metering in 2016. Utility companies buy back electricity at the lowest rate electricity can be produced in Arizona, even lower than the wholesale rate.

But we're talking 4 months over 100. I was out there in March and the owner had the AC going in my airb&b b/c it was in the 80's. Just covering your own AC costs should make it worth it.

 

[Capella]

Having panels put up this week. It’s a little nerve wracking having people drill into your roof but I’ve been thinking about this for 2.5 years so finally decided to do it. System should cover 100% of our energy needs and we are gonna live in this house until I croak at least. Not financing it, so should make the money back in about 8 years.

Kind of a nervous home thing to have done but this is a good company that didn’t knock on my door so I am hopeful.

 

[BlackCrowes]

Having panels put up this week. It’s a little nerve wracking having people drill into your roof but I’ve been thinking about this for 2.5 years so finally decided to do it. System should cover 100% of our energy needs and we are gonna live in this house until I croak at least. Not financing it, so should make the money back in about 8 years.

Kind of a nervous home thing to have done but this is a good company that didn’t knock on my door so I am hopeful.

any battery storage?