Solar Panels buyers remorse (4 Viewers)

[rustycolts]

There is probably a thread on this so apologies for starting a new one, but I couldn't find it

So I purchased solar panels yesterday. Salesman made it sound very good. I had sat through a presentation before it also sounded good but it turned out to be a 20 year lease on the panels so I nixed that one.

Anyway these things are very expensive to the tune of 49 grand. Getting them financed so it's like a 2nd mortgage. 25 year financing agreement. The payment is $188 a month. So according to salesman my electric bill should decrease enough that between two payments it still would be about $75 cheaper than my average bill. Now I'm thinking with interest on this loan will I really be saving anything. Really starting to have some buyers remorse. I'm in Florida so I have 72 hours to cancel the whole deal.

Has anyone done this and what were the results? There is also a $15000 tax credit  but I really don't have enough taxable income to make that a big deal. Did I screw up?

 

[Warrior]

The sheer volume of salesman pushing these things lately is a big red flag for me. Not sure if it was a mistake, but the slimy sales pitches have me holding off personally. 

 

[ChiefD]

Probably the first thing I'd do if you haven't already is get your old electric bills for the last couple of years. See how many kilowatt hours you have used per month and then compare that to how much the solar panels are supposed to produce.  If the panels produce enough to cover all of your electric needs AND your electric bills were more than $188 a month on average I would think you would be ok.

But for me, it would have to be more than a wash to make that investment.  Like, if my average electric bill was $300 a month and now I get all my electricity for $188 a month - sign me up.

If it's neglible I pass. That's a long commitment.

 

[El Floppo]

that's a lot of loot.

no tax credits to offset?

eta:  yes, tax credit. no, reading comprehension.

 

[Pipes]

The sheer volume of salesman pushing these things lately is a big red flag for me. Not sure if it was a mistake, but the slimy sales pitches have me holding off personally. 

Same these aholes come through our neighborhood every few months.  Apparently their tactics work because a number of my neighbors have put them on.  I live in WI so don't see the value since we only have intense sunlight for a few months out of the year.  That and the toxic chemicals in the panels it's a hard pass for me right now.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

I think they make your house look less attractive by a wide margin.

 

[Buckna]

My electric bill is like $7 bucks (which is just monthly fees) most months in a 4K sq ft house except during summer but I am in Colorado where I don’t need to run the AC continuously like in Florida. I would do like Chief said and do the math on your purported savings. Supposedly the rule of thumb in the US is that they should be able to pay for themselves within 8 years, beyond that and your probably getting ripped off compared to other available options. (Including rebates in the payback calculation.)

I actually bought my house with panels already installed but no way I would have shelled out the going prices for them. The markup is insane in the US, other countries pay a half to a 2/3rds less than we do.

 

[beer 30]

I actually bought my house with panels already installed but no way I would have shelled out the going prices for them. The markup is insane in the US, other countries pay a half to a 2/3rds less than we do.

From what I've read, our comrades across the way are also driving the cost up because, well...they can. They artificially dropped the cost of panels to run competition out of business and having done that, they are now raising the cost to whatever they want with little consequence. 

 

[joffer]

love mine, but I got a pretty good deal.  At their current price, I’d probably pass

 

[Courtjester]

I was just going to start a thread about this earlier this week. We just started investigating solar last week. I had no idea it was so expensive to buy/install one of these things. It stinks, because we have the absolute perfect house for solar as the back of the house is southern facing and would get almost continuous sun for most of the day. We have a great roof layout. The only way this becomes worth it is if we see huge rate increases across the board because right now I think we would be breaking even. Further,  the idea of paying for one of these systems until I am 75 or older is just not appealing.

I was completely naive when I told my wife, that they are practically giving these things away. I honestly thought there would be a ton more rebates and cost offsets to encourage people to go this route--wow, was I wrong. 

 

[joffer]

What $/Watt are you guys getting quoted right now?  Five years ago mine was about $3.25 per Watt before the tax credit, and about $2.45 per Watt after.

 

[wilked]

I’d want to be $3/watt pre credit 

 

[=Smackdown=]

The mortgage has to be worked out between the home owner, solar company and utility company

 I purchased my solar panels 10 years ago and went on a 15 year mortgage. The Solar company worked directly with my utility company. They looked at my electric bill for the past 24 months. My $200 average bill went down to $100 for the next 15 years. With the tax credits we had no out of pocket expense.

Why isn't your solar company and utility company working together with you on this? Seems like you missed a step.

 

[Terminalxylem]

There is probably a thread on this so apologies for starting a new one, but I couldn't find it

So I purchased solar panels yesterday. Salesman made it sound very good. I had sat through a presentation before it also sounded good but it turned out to be a 20 year lease on the panels so I nixed that one.

Anyway these things are very expensive to the tune of 49 grand. Getting them financed so it's like a 2nd mortgage. 25 year financing agreement. The payment is $188 a month. So according to salesman my electric bill should decrease enough that between two payments it still would be about $75 cheaper than my average bill. Now I'm thinking with interest on this loan will I really be saving anything. Really starting to have some buyers remorse. I'm in Florida so I have 72 hours to cancel the whole deal.

Has anyone done this and what were the results? There is also a $15000 tax credit  but I really don't have enough taxable income to make that a big deal. Did I screw up?

That's pretty expensive. How many panels?

Did you screw up? Need to know how many quotes you received, your average power bill/use relative to expected PV output, and how much you prioritize environmental issues.

We already discussed this, but I'll restate: I purchased (not leased, no interest) enough panels to offset my electric bill completely. This was 13 years ago, for roughly $20K after tax credits (30% federal, 35% state, which I was able to use in full). I looked at it as a home improvement, not an investment, but still am pretty close to paying for the system.

ETA I just did the math. To pay for the system at this point, I'd need to offset $67.42/month in energy cost. I easily do that every month, so the system has already "paid for itself".

 

[rustycolts]

The mortgage has to be worked out between the home owner, solar company and utility company

 I purchased my solar panels 10 years ago and went on a 15 year mortgage. The Solar company worked directly with my utility company. They looked at my electric bill for the past 24 months. My $200 average bill went down to $100 for the next 15 years. With the tax credits we had no out of pocket expense.

Why isn't your solar company and utility company working together with you on this? Seems like you missed a step.

Really not sure about that. I don't think any steps were missed but who knows my front porch light burns a little dim sometimes. I do know that my avg bill for the last 24 months is $270. So if it gets me down to the 11 bucks and change that Duke energy charges as a user fee then I save about $70.00 a month. Just don't know if it's worth it. I am really leaning towards canceling tomorrow. I mean if I get charged even 50 bucks then the savings really is negligible. 

 

[FreeBaGeL]

The only way this becomes worth it is if we see huge rate increases across the board because right now I think we would be breaking even.

I think that's kind of the selling point of these, no?  Rates are pretty much only going to go up.  So if you're paying $188/mo for the panels right now instead of $188 for electric that is just a wash.  But in 10 years when you're electric bill would be $300/mo and you're still paying $188/mo for the panels that's a win.

Of course, I haven't bought these, I've just sat through the sales pitch like most here so no idea how much truth there is to that.  Of course my other concern was selling the home but salesman made a good pitch that it should increase the value of the home since a buyer would take on the solar loan and be happy to pay $188/mo on it rather than the $300+ electric that neighbors were paying.

Again, no idea if that will hold true on that, but I believe "break even" is the entire target/selling point they're trying to hit right now with the idea that electric rates will only go up while you're locked into that monthly payment that never will.

 

[Terminalxylem]

I’d want to be $3/watt pre credit 

When I purchased in 2008, it was $8.36/watt, $4.93 after credit.

Seems like they've gotten a lot cheaper.

ETA How did you decide $3/watt is a fair price?

 

[Fantasy_Freak]

What happens if/when you move, who takes over payments, new owner or you pay the balance?

 

[rustycolts]

I think that's kind of the selling point of these, no?  Rates are pretty much only going to go up.  So if you're paying $188/mo for the panels right now instead of $188 for electric that is just a wash.  But in 10 years when you're electric bill would be $300/mo and you're still paying $188/mo for the panels that's a win.

Of course, I haven't bought these, I've just sat through the sales pitch like most here so no idea how much truth there is to that.  Of course my other concern was selling the home but salesman made a good pitch that it should increase the value of the home since a buyer would take on the solar loan and be happy to pay $188/mo on it rather than the $300+ electric that neighbors were paying.

Again, no idea if that will hold true on that, but I believe "break even" is the entire target/selling point they're trying to hit right now with the idea that electric rates will only go up while you're locked into that monthly payment that never will.

I think you are right about that. My Jan bill for 2021 and Dec bill of 2020 were $260 and $206. Where as my bill for Jan 2020 and Dec 2019 were $166 and $144. With no real change in usage . So those were pretty big increases and after looking at all the past history cost has really risen. I do know that it's only going to get worse. I am really going back and forth on this.

I know that I probably will get flack for this but money is my main concern. Not the climate it's been changing since the beginning of time. So apologies to all that are environmentally friendly . I'm just an old guy set in his ways.

 

[rustycolts]

What happens if/when you move, who takes over payments, new owner or you pay the balance?

My understanding was new owner but only if they choose to. It is also supposed to add value to your house. So I guess if new owners don't want to then you are stuck with payments. I guess you would have to make sure you make enough on home to pay off panels.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Odd timing.  Just got done watching a YouTube vid of the new Tesla solar panels and a very-thorough vid on the costs and ROI.

• First clip:  Exploring If Tesla Solar Roof Is About To Go Mainstream?
  
• Second clip on cost/ROI: Tesla Solar Panels Cost and Honest Performance
  

These are dense videos but gotta say this looks pretty good overall.   

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

Has anyone done this and what were the results? There is also a $15000 tax credit  but I really don't have enough taxable income to make that a big deal. Did I screw up?

If you don't come close to affording these straight up, I would cancel.  A 25 year payment plan is ridiculous.

We just installed Tesla panels with three of the storage batteries for about 49K.  For us, it was a no-brainer.  We could afford it and take advantage of the tax credit.  We also had a need for it for Mr R's job.  But that long a payment plan is just a non-starter for me.

(And they didn't uglify my house, either.  Curb appeal was maintained at all times.)

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

Mr R, the research king, wants to know what kind of panels they are.  He just checked the Tesla site, and the full installation we got with the three power walls is still 49K.  And we kind of over-bought.  We wanted whole-house power in the event of a hurricane or another big freeze.

 

[pollardsvision]

Looking into getting them myself. A long time dear friend has a company that does the project management and my neighbor works for a local company that installs them (would likely do the work if I do it).

If I did it, as of now, the design would be an 8 kW system (22 panels) for $20K before the tax credit (about $15K after the credit). No batteries, of course, at that price.  Would cover about 75% of our energy needs. 

I'm fortunate to be dealing with people I trust, but I'm still pretty neurotic about the whole thing. I've been shown the fasteners used and trust the installers, but man, I still just hate the idea of people drilling into my roof. The roof is new, which is good, because I'd never consider it with anything other than a newish roof. The panels may protect the roof some, but surely they add a major cost when it comes to replacing it. 

Throw in freaking out about the weight of the panels and knowing I'm' losing money if I get behind on keeping the trees trimmed, and I'm a huge pain in the butt for my buddy.

Anyway, I hear ya Rusty. This is a stressful call. 

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

I'd never consider it with anything other than a newish roof.

Good call.  I wouldn't, either.  

The installer should check to see if the roof can carry the load before installation.  Solar panels just don't weigh that much.

Snow alters this equation.

(I wouldn't buy the solar roof thingie.  Didn't seem too good yet.)

 

[wilked]

When I purchased in 2008, it was $8.36/watt, $4.93 after credit.

Seems like they've gotten a lot cheaper.

ETA How did you decide $3/watt is a fair price?

Pretty standard in my area. Neighbor just got quoted, was exactly $3/watt. Just a number I am aware of from keeping up with these things. 

 

[wilked]

Mine was $3.50/watt about 4 years ago 

 

[rustycolts]

Mr R, the research king, wants to know what kind of panels they are.  He just checked the Tesla site, and the full installation we got with the three power walls is still 49K.  And we kind of over-bought.  We wanted whole-house power in the event of a hurricane or another big freeze.

Hyundai yes the S.Korean car manufacturer.  I agree 25 years way too much. I wish that I could pull from my IRA but that is just too much. After working at Publix for 25 years I have quite the nest egg thanks to the companies esop and 401k. There is no pension though so if you keep hitting your nest egg it will disappear. It would be nice to pay cash but just not a smart move for me. Every instinct is telling me to cancel tomorrow.  The name of the company is AKE. They have a pretty good reputation.  They are only based in Florida right now.

 

[rustycolts]

This quote was for just the panels no batteries. I also have a new roof 3 months old. One interesting thing he showed me was aerial photos of Mexico Beach after the hurricane parts of roofs missing shingles gone but solar panels still intact on a lot of the houses.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

I wish that I could pull from my IRA

 

[Binky The Doormat]

geezus - this sounds worse than the guys pushing aluminum siding when I was a kid.

 

[rustycolts]

Yea no way I do that. That's why financing was only option.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

Yea no way I do that. That's why financing was only option.

I think I would wait four or five years and save some money.  See how it goes.  Maybe invest in a no-load mutual fund or something.  You may be more comfortable about the whole thing then.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Mine was $3.50/watt about 4 years ago 

OK, just seems pretty arbitrary, if the intent is to pay off the system with power expenditures in a reasonable time frame.

 

[Osaurus]

The ROI on these things never seem like a good deal. 

 

[2Squirrels1Nut]

I think they make your house look less attractive by a wide margin.

Agree. Love the idea but the expense and the way it makes a house look isn't for me right now. 

geezus - this sounds worse than the guys pushing aluminum siding when I was a kid.

A long time friend of mine started selling them a few months ago and doing really well.  He quit his job selling cars, at this point and time where it hasn't been things couldn't be any better, because every dealership were run by shysters.  Was constantly battling management for not baiting and switching, adding made up fees, renegotiating after a price was settled on, etc. 

No doubt there are less than honest people selling solar panels but he's at least one of the good ones. FWIW

 

[2Squirrels1Nut]

The ROI on these things never seem like a good deal. 

They really don't.  Things change though and electric power could skyrocket the way natural gas has. 

 

[Terminalxylem]

The ROI on these things never seem like a good deal. 

How so? If you intend on staying in the home, paying up front and taking maximal advantage of tax credits, seems like a no-brainer to me.

All those things applied when I purchased a PV array, and it appears I made the correct decision. And it's much cheaper now.

People spend north of 40K (on average) for new vehicles every ~6 years, but you never hear people worrying about ROI on those purchases. Why is PV any different?

 

[2Squirrels1Nut]

How so? If you intend on staying in the home, paying up front and taking maximal advantage of tax credits, seems like a no-brainer to me.

All those things applied when I purchased a PV array, and it appears I made the correct decision. And it's much cheaper now.

People spend north of 40K (on average) for new vehicles every ~6 years, but you never hear people worrying about ROI on those purchases. Why is PV any different?

I think this is bonkers too.  Some people really LOVE their cars though. I guess whatever makes you happy but horrible ROI. 

 

[top dog]

Living in Northeast Ohio where it seems like the sun never comes out it always cracks me up when I see these guys. You wanna sell me a snow blower? Ok.. Solar panels that will take 162.4 years for ROI? No thanks.

 

[top dog]

How so? If you intend on staying in the home, paying up front and taking maximal advantage of tax credits, seems like a no-brainer to me.

All those things applied when I purchased a PV array, and it appears I made the correct decision. And it's much cheaper now.

People spend north of 40K (on average) for new vehicles every ~6 years, but you never hear people worrying about ROI on those purchases. Why is PV any different?

I can't drive around my new cool solar panels wearing my Oakleys though.

 

[gianmarco]

Try this calculator?

 

[rustycolts]

Try this calculator?

Calculator says 24 years. I would be 89 and probably in the ground.

I am going to cancel tomorrow.  Man I am going to feel like such a jackass . I just hope they don't give me a hard time. You are supposed to have 72 hours to change your mind in FL sure hope that applies to solar panels too.

 

[gianmarco]

Calculator says 24 years. I would be 89 and probably in the ground.

I am going to cancel tomorrow.  Man I am going to feel like such a jackass . I just hope they don't give me a hard time. You are supposed to have 72 hours to change your mind in FL sure hope that applies to solar panels too.

At your age, I don't think it's worth it.  You need shorter term savings, not 25 year investments.

 

[DropKick]

There is probably a thread on this so apologies for starting a new one, but I couldn't find it

So I purchased solar panels yesterday. Salesman made it sound very good. I had sat through a presentation before it also sounded good but it turned out to be a 20 year lease on the panels so I nixed that one.

Anyway these things are very expensive to the tune of 49 grand. Getting them financed so it's like a 2nd mortgage. 25 year financing agreement. The payment is $188 a month. So according to salesman my electric bill should decrease enough that between two payments it still would be about $75 cheaper than my average bill. Now I'm thinking with interest on this loan will I really be saving anything. Really starting to have some buyers remorse. I'm in Florida so I have 72 hours to cancel the whole deal.

Has anyone done this and what were the results? There is also a $15000 tax credit  but I really don't have enough taxable income to make that a big deal. Did I screw up?

Cancel.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Calculator says 24 years. I would be 89 and probably in the ground.

I am going to cancel tomorrow.  Man I am going to feel like such a jackass . I just hope they don't give me a hard time. You are supposed to have 72 hours to change your mind in FL sure hope that applies to solar panels too.

I didn't realize you were 65. When you were born, the life expectancy for males was between 65 and 66.  Since you made it to 65, you're expected to live another ~18 years. I wouldn't make any big purchases at your age that don't immediately improve quality of life.

 

[rustycolts]

I didn't realize you were 65. When you were born, the life expectancy for males was between 65 and 66.  Since you made it to 65, you're expected to live another ~18 years. I wouldn't make any big purchases at your age that don't immediately improve quality of life.

Thanks buddy, I read your posts and you obviously are an intelligent guy. I just needed some folks who are smarter than I to confirm what I already knew. That I made a bone headed move. I'm not saying solar panels are a bad idea just a bad idea if you have to finance them at my age.

Now I'm kind of afraid that I'll make some more not so smart moves.I used to not be so easy to sale something to that didn't make sense for me and my family. Sure hope that no time share folks call me. I think I might be getting a little gullible in my golden years.

I want to thank you and everyone else that took the time to respond and give me a little advice.

 

[Phil Elliott]

Stay away from the lease. Make sure your roof is in good condition (for shingles you don't want to replace them in the next few years if they are old/worn, which would require taking the panels down). It seems the break even point was usually around 7-10 years for a purchased system. There are a few calculators that will estimate your solar production based on the previous 10 years of weather in your zip code. Your utility may offer a rebate. Check to see how your utility company credits your solar production.

I am not a CPA, but claiming the federal tax credit can get a little complex. First, it applies to the year that your system is turned on ( not installed). It is a non-refundable credit so the tax credit cannot exceed your tax liability or you roll the difference to the next year. And the tax credit is only available if you own the system (you don't own the system if it's leased). You also may have to increase the electrical service to your house.  

I would spend a lot of time researching solar panels before getting quotes. I love the idea of solar and we had a 8k system in our previous home a few years ago. But with the rebate and federal tax credit we got a $20k system for only about $10k in Austin. 

ETA: and just seeing that you are 65, save your money and energy for fighting off the annual medicare advantage plans' enrollment blitz.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

Try this calculator?

Why did I expect to be Rickrolled?

 

[skol asylum]

I live in AZ where solar panels probably give the most bang for the buck. I've never really investigated them too closely. I think the only way I'd be interested was if I were buying a brand new home that I was intent on living in for the long term and roll it into the mortgage. That said, I've been here for 20 years now and just don't see myself retiring here. My gut says we need to abandon ship at some point as it's only going to get more crowded here, hotter, and water shortage issues will become real.