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SP Mock Invitational--5th round? Uh huh....5th round...... (1 Viewer)

MG345 said:
Remind me the last time they drafted a WR or CB anywhere near that high? Not expecting a top 6 pick to fall, but there were way better options at two critical picks. You screwed the pooch, and I think PCJS would agree.
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Your receivers are midgets and Jimmy Graham looks like he may be just about done.  Don't you want Wilson to be able to throw a fade route in the back of the endzone?  Treadwell is too good to pass up at pick 26.

Sherman is good, but who are your other corners?  Browner?  Burley?  Lane?  Davis is an upgrade over all three of them.  Plus, he is a hard hitter who could be moved to SS when 28 year-old Kam Chancellor leaves in free agency after next season.

Yes, I could have reached for inferior players to fill spots on the OL, but I like the value I got with Garnett and Beavers.  ...and it's not my fault the "former GM" lets all of his offensive linemen go.

 
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spider321 said:
You're receivers are midgets and Jimmy Graham looks like he may be just about done.  Don't you want Wilson to be able to throw a fade route in the back of the endzone?

Sherman is good, but who are your other corners?  Browner?  Burley?  Lane?  Davis is an upgrade over all three of them.  Plus, he is a hard hitter who could be moved to SS when 28 year-old Kam Chancellor leaves in free agency after next season.

Yes, I could have reached for inferior players to fill spots on the OL, but I like the value I got with Garnett and Beavers.  Plus, it's not my fault the "former GM" lets all of his offensive linemen go.
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You think maybe we should give him a whole offseason to get up to speed in the offense before we go down that road?  I'd say Russell did pretty well with the WRs he had.

 
MG345 said:
Remind me the last time they drafted a WR or CB anywhere near that high? Not expecting a top 6 pick to fall, but there were way better options at two critical picks. You screwed the pooch, and I think PCJS would agree.
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You know what? Next time volunteer to do the mock draft. Simple as that. No need to act like this. Say what you would do differently or PM him your thoughts. He and I collaborated on the Panthers in Andy's mock and he was more than amenable to my suggestions. 

 
spider321 said:
Your receivers are midgets and Jimmy Graham looks like he may be just about done.  Don't you want Wilson to be able to throw a fade route in the back of the endzone?

Sherman is good, but who are your other corners?  Browner?  Burley?  Lane?  Davis is an upgrade over all three of them.  Plus, he is a hard hitter who could be moved to SS when 28 year-old Kam Chancellor leaves in free agency after next season.

Yes, I could have reached for inferior players to fill spots on the OL, but I like the value I got with Garnett and Beavers.  ...and it's not my fault the "former GM" lets all of his offensive linemen go.
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I'm more worried about getting Wilson killed than him having a "big" target to throw to, or are you forgetting how much damage Baldwin did this last year? There is no problem throwing to smaller WR when they put up the stats similar to Lockett, Baldwin, Kearse, etc, on a run first team. 

If you had done ANY research on the team you are drafting for, you would see they have a very specific idea of who they want at CB, and Davis doesn't fit it. There is a reason the continually draft CBs in the late rounds.

You haven't taken into account Seattle's needs at all, which ultimately isn't that big of a deal, but you burned two picks on guys that aren't going to have a huge impact. Seattle wants to throw the ball 25 times a game, drafting a WR when Seattle re-signed Kearse, about to extend Baldwin, and moved up to get Lockett, is wasteful. Drafting a CB that early when they just re-signed Lane, and have extremely good depth behind him, is wasteful. You literally could have drafted almost any other position than those two and you would have been fine.

You can call me a homer or whatever, but this is the worst mock I have seen for Seattle this year. It is understandable, as I can now see you have no clue what the team is about, but don't try to turn this back around on me or JWB for calling you out on it.

Ultimately, it is a mock draft, so who cares, just thought I would give you some feedback. Take it or leave it.

 
stbugs said:
You know what? Next time volunteer to do the mock draft. Simple as that. No need to act like this. Say what you would do differently or PM him your thoughts. He and I collaborated on the Panthers in Andy's mock and he was more than amenable to my suggestions. 
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I don't have the time to sit around mock drafting, kudos to those who do. If sharing my opinion is not welcome on a fantasy football forum, I will excuse myself. As for the "no need to act like this" are you guys so sensitive that your efforts on this mock draft are unassailable? I offered my opinion on his mock draft, he took offense and wanted to argue. I am more than willingly to offer a reponse back. Isn't this whole thing about talking through the scenarios?

 
Borden said:
I've been waiting since this draft started to make this pick...

Paul Perkins  - RB - UCLA

If anyone needs me I'll be back in my hole watching tape and doing write ups.
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Love this guy, but I can't tell if he's good or not.  Highlights look amazing, but man, he has some open field.

 
MG345 said:
I don't have the time to sit around mock drafting, kudos to those who do. If sharing my opinion is not welcome on a fantasy football forum, I will excuse myself. As for the "no need to act like this" are you guys so sensitive that your efforts on this mock draft are unassailable? I offered my opinion on his mock draft, he took offense and wanted to argue. I am more than willingly to offer a reponse back. Isn't this whole thing about talking through the scenarios?
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Yes, and frankly, I like it.  Not all draft grades are 'A's.  

By the way, not all draft picks are 'need'.  Seattle fan should know that.

 
MG345 said:
I don't have the time to sit around mock drafting, kudos to those who do. If sharing my opinion is not welcome on a fantasy football forum, I will excuse myself. As for the "no need to act like this" are you guys so sensitive that your efforts on this mock draft are unassailable? I offered my opinion on his mock draft, he took offense and wanted to argue. I am more than willingly to offer a reponse back. Isn't this whole thing about talking through the scenarios?
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That's awesome, I am sure you are very important. "You screwed the pooch" isn't sharing an opinion. What tends to be more valuable is what you would do instead and suggestions for the next round, etc. You did a little more of that in the 2nd post, but again, I see no actual input, i.e. "I would have taken X, they fit in our system better" or hey with the 4th I sent you a PM on who I think you should take.

I'm not sensitive in the least, but I am mocking for a team I know pretty well in this one. Oh well, go back to doing something important, wouldn't want to keep you here. LOL.

 
Cookiemonster said:
ETA, don't forget Bryant will likely be back next year.
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It's no guarantee that Bryant comes back next year, or ever.  I hope he does, as do most people, but he knew that if he screwed up again that he'd be suspended for a full year, and he still did it.  Everyone makes mistakes, he could easily make another and be out for another year (see Josh Gordon).  So, assuming he'll definitely be back is a mistake.

Also, I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on what we think the Steelers should do/how we rank players.  So far we've disagreed on Karl Joseph, Mackensie Alexander, Laquon Treadwell, Jaylon Smith, and Jordan Jenkins to name a few. 

 
OK, I'll stick with what I sent mass.

Carolina Panthers select Zach Sanchez CB, Oklahoma. Like Howard before him, he's been rated highly for zone and we've shown some interest in him with visits/workouts. With Norman gone, we need to take a couple and hope one sticks well. Also, Sanchez could take over nickel/slot if Boykin leaves after his one year deal.

Man, lots of guys I like around here. Not all world, but some who could develop. I wish I had a few more picks here.

 
stbugs said:
That's awesome, I am sure you are very important. "You screwed the pooch" isn't sharing an opinion. What tends to be more valuable is what you would do instead and suggestions for the next round, etc. You did a little more of that in the 2nd post, but again, I see no actual input, i.e. "I would have taken X, they fit in our system better" or hey with the 4th I sent you a PM on who I think you should take.

I'm not sensitive in the least, but I am mocking for a team I know pretty well in this one. Oh well, go back to doing something important, wouldn't want to keep you here. LOL.
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Missed the point completely, I really do find these mock drafts interesting to read, so thank you to all who do it. Or, in other words, kudos to those that find the time. But, continue to be sensitive over a fantasy football thread. Looks good on you.

Next time I feel the need to be critical, I will come with my binders of notes prepared to make intelligent rebuttals. Either way, Spider321 screwed the pooch.

 
The Pats are probably done, I don't think you guys will make it to the 6th.

Pleased with the outcome.

2.60 Leonte Carroo, WR Rutgers2.61 Kyler Fackrell, EDGE Utah ST3.91 Scooby Wright III, LB Arizona3.96 Sheldon Day, DL Notre Dame

 
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MG345 said:
#sensitive
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Yeah, that happens.  When people put thought/effort into something they can get defensive when someone comes and critiques it.  It's human nature. 

Just curious, who would you take with the Seahawks 4 picks based on how this draft ended up?

 
MG345 I appreciate your feedback and that is what we here for. Some times the truth can be presented in a harsh way that shows a lack of emotional intelligence or consideration for the audience. I have made that mistake several times in my life and here on these message boards that I am not particularly proud of.

When this happens there is usually a lot of pushback because of the way things are phrased that seems disrespectful and cause offense. As adults we can choose our words and how we phrase things so as not to do that, or we can carry on and watch how people do not listen and become defensive because they feel they are being attacked.

All of what I just said applies to every interaction you have with people in life.

One thing I learned while in the Army is that if you are going to criticize someone to be sure the criticism is constructive. Saying something is bad or wrong isn't very helpful if you are not also showing how what they did could be better and how they could do better when they face a similar situation in the future.

So while I don't think you should pull punches, you should say what you really think, at the same time you can do so with some consideration for the audience and you can offer solutions or alternatives for what you are criticizing and the audience can get more out of that.

Best wishes

 
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steelers1080 said:
Yeah, that happens.  When people put thought/effort into something they can get defensive when someone comes and critiques it.  It's human nature. 

Just curious, who would you take with the Seahawks 4 picks based on how this draft ended up?
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He would have picked Laremy Tunsil at 26, Joey Bosa at 56, Sheldon Rankins at 90, and Ryan Kelly at 97.

...because MG345 is seven feet tall, and if he were here today, he’d consume the English with fireballs from his eyes, and lighting bolts from his ####.

 
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spider321 said:
He would have picked Laremy Tunsil at 17, Joey Bosa at 56, Sheldon Rankins at 90, and Ryan Kelly at 97.

...because MG345 is seven feet tall, and if he were here today, he’d consume the English with fireballs from his eyes, and lighting bolts from his ####.
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Come on.  

 
spider321 said:
He would have picked Laremy Tunsil at 17, Joey Bosa at 56, Sheldon Rankins at 90, and Ryan Kelly at 97.

...because MG345 is seven feet tall, and if he were here today, he’d consume the English with fireballs from his eyes, and lighting bolts from his ####.
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Finally, you get it. Next time, do better.

 
I am going to be gone in about twenty minutes the next few hours and I have a ton of picks coming up.  Soulfly3 was in earlier, see if he can jump back in or ask in the Browns thread.

I'll be here for a lil-bit but I doubt we will make it to my picks before I have to go. 

Upcoming picks:

40(138) Browns (Compensatory Selection) 

FIFTH ROUND

2(141) Browns 

35(172) Browns (Compensatory Selection)36(173) Browns (Compensatory Selection)

 
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I remember having some picks in this range.  :)

The Vikings are not done yet as I still have picks 150 and 160 but that is quite a ways off from now.

I regret not getting a LB yet. I have targeted a few of them. I particularly like Deion Jones of LSU who went to the Bengals at pick 55. If I had not traded down with the Bears I could have picked him at 54.

I was also targeting Joshua Perry of OSU but he went just after I sent massraider my short list where he was the top player of six I sent to him.

So I have been close but just didn't quite have the right picks to make a move at LB.

I don't think LB is a huge need for the Vikings because they had enough depth to trade away one last season to the 49ers. I think Edmond Robinson who I think is a promising guy to move up the depth chart and Audie Cole is decent as a 2 down LB with Kendricks moving outside.

I am not sure if the trades I made put the Vikings in a better position. I could have gotten a better deal from coolnerd to move up to 85 instead of pick 93 for the same price. So I lost out there. However my short list was the same and I still got one of those six at pick 93 anyways, which is kind of what I expected, but sweated it a bit as I saw my list of 23 players dwindle to five.

Draft so far

23 Josh Doctson

72 TJ Green

86 Maliek Collins

93 Mike Thomas

Although the trades were fair I am not sure I got much benefit out of them. What do you all think?

 
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I don't think you won the draft, but you didn't do bad at all.  Pretty fair value on each of them.  I personally have TJ Green a bit lower but not enough to gripe about.  I liked Collins about there, just couldn't quite fit him into the Steelers' scheme.  I think you made up for the discrepancy I have with Green by quite a bit by where you got Mike Thomas at.  Had you swapped those two picks, I wouldn't disagree.

I might have taken Butler with your first, and I prefer Darian Thompson to TJ Green.  Slight differences in opinion but not by far and you got better WRs than I would have, if that was more your focus than improving your DL.

You ever get any sleep?

 
I will sleep when I'm dead. I get a bit OCD when I am in the middle of a draft.

I appreciate the feedback Cookie and I agree there are some flaws with Green. I think some of those flaws are coachable but to me he lacks that killer instinct. I would like to see him be more aggressive in helping against the run.

You cannot teach 4.35 speed however and his other measurables are outstanding as well. So Green is a player I think Zimmer and Gray can develop into a good free safety. I don't think he is exactly good right now.

 
Biabreakable said:
I will sleep when I'm dead. I get a bit OCD when I am in the middle of a draft.

I appreciate the feedback Cookie and I agree there are some flaws with Green. I think some of those flaws are coachable but to me he lacks that killer instinct. I would like to see him be more aggressive in helping against the run.

You cannot teach 4.35 speed however and his other measurables are outstanding as well. So Green is a player I think Zimmer and Gray can develop into a good free safety. I don't think he is exactly good right now.
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Appreciate all of your commentary as well.  Yeah, we just differ a bit in which type of player we like.  You prefer the physical gifts with optimism in your coaching staff.  I always prefer the more instinctive football players with the lower ceiling and higher floor.  On base % or swing for the fences?  Chicken or the egg?  Ford or Chevy?

 
I do like Darian Thompson quite a bit as well but I consider him more of a strong safety than a free safety. He does not have the range I am looking for in a guy I want to play single high coverage at times.

 
Here is Lance Zeirleins write up on Thompson, the weaknesses part:

WEAKNESSES

 Instincts and awareness in coverage will scare coaches when they study the tape. Allowed receivers to get way behind him multiple times against BYU. Undisciplined. Seems to lose track of targets around him and can be baited to vacate his deep responsibilities by crossing routes in front of him. Allowed 10 touchdowns over last three years. Needs to play with more technique and less improv. Hip tightness hinders ability to open quickly and run with necessary speed to close separation. Plays tall in space and quick lateral movement and basic change of direction can be a challenge at times. Needs to slow and gather himself when charging downhill to avoid missed tackles.
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The poor 3 cone and 40 times concern me about using him in a free safety role as well.

 
spider321 said:
No.

I won't get caught up in a long, drawn out debate with you; where you absolutely refuse to just agree to disagree(for the umpteenth time).

You disagree.  Fine.
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Umpteen is a lot. I'm pretty sure we haven't had close to that many disagreements.

In this case, I suspect Glennon is not in fact better than 10 NFL starters, but I was interested to know who you would put him above. Why post a rather strong/out of the box opinion if you aren't willing to further discuss it?

I realize I am not 7 feet tall and don't shoot fireballs and lightning bolts, but still...

 
I think I needed to pull off one more trade to possibly gain a value edge from. Kind of hard to do with limited resources to work with. The value might have been in 2017 even. I think one more deal might have accomplished that.

The Vikings needs are at wide receiver, safety, under tackle (replacement for Tom Johnson who is getting old) then linebacker. So I have at least added players at the top 3 priority positions.

The Vikings have 14 offensive linemen right now. I don't consider this a need as it is already going to be difficult for some of their younger prospects to make the final roster. I consider this a lower need than LB but about the same.

The Vikings also could use an edge rusher to take over for Robison who is getting old. That is about equal with LB and OL depth needs. Perhaps higher in the way I prioritize positions. However I don't think there are many good edge players in this draft. Not ones that I want to be getting snaps for the Vikings anyways.

 
Good choice MassRaider ;-) was expecting him taken right in front of me 

Seemed like a BPA according to my quick scouting about. With Ogbah and Tapper our DE stock is fully replenished for the time being.

1.16 - Emanuel Ogbah, DE

2.46 - Le'Raven Clark, OT

3.95 - Miles Killebrew, SS

4.111 - Charles Tapper, DE

 
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massraider said:
Tapper is a sleeper.  One of the guys I ant my Raiders to take.  LOVE that pick.  
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I learned about him from Justis identifying him as one of the force players from this draft class.

I almost sent you a message to add him to the end of my short list I sent you. I like Collins a little bit better but both players are close. Maybe I took the wrong one not sure.

Collins made the top 100 consensus list while Tapper did not. Just watched highlights on both again. I feel more confident I made the right decision.

As Tapper did not make the top 100 he would meet the definition of a sleeper.

 
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With Brees' time in the Big Easy winding down we should be (and IRL will be) focusing on guys who can be Day 1 contributors, but we can't pass up this kid's potential. 

4.112 - Saints select Will Redmond, CB, Mississippi St.

 
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