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Spencer Ware, possibly the new work horse (2 Viewers)

Spencer Ware - RB - Chiefs
Spencer Ware (toe) will not practice Wednesday, but coach Andy Reid said "he'll be okay" for Week 2 against the Texans.
We didn't notice Ware suffer any sort of injury in the opener against the Chargers, so this could be a maintenance day for him after he stuffed the stat sheet with 199 total yards and one touchdown. If Jamaal Charles (knee) sits again, which seems
 
LawFitz said:
Turf toe can be a death knell for fantasy. It's the worst because it typically isn't bad enough to sit out, but enough to crush production. See CJ Anderson last season as a prime example. This news should be extremely concerning.
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This may be a dumb question, but is there a distinction between turf toe and a sprained toe? From my understanding turf toe refers specifically to the big toe. Is it possible he sprained another, less crucial toe haha?

If he doesn't turn in a full practice this week I'm likely going to bench him. Turf toe completely saps burst and I'm afraid it'd turn Ware into a sub 4ypc rusher.

 
LawFitz said:
Turf toe can be a death knell for fantasy. It's the worst because it typically isn't bad enough to sit out, but enough to crush production. See CJ Anderson last season as a prime example. This news should be extremely concerning.
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Yeah def a chance it could be bad.

 
Also, I'm also not listening to a word Reid says. He made it sound like Davis was going to touch the ball last week when everyone who has followed his career knew that wouldn't happen. There's no upside to Reid telegraphing that Ware may sit/won't be at 100%.

 
yikes sprained toe DNP... charles practicing with scout team... fire up Shark West.  CJA sprained toe last year the perfect example of how this injury just sucks.  

 
Should I trade Ware for Donte Moncrief?

Standard 20 teams league

QB: Luck
RB: Anderson, Blount, Ware
WR: Brown,J. Matthews, Patton
 

 
I watched ware's last carry on on GAMEPASS just now,  he gets yanked down awkwardly and it looks like his left foot might have gotten trapped or turned oddly.  Ware is also slow to get up after the play and in my opinion gingerly jogs towards the sideline... after that play west is put in the game and a timeout is called before the snap.... even after the timeout west stays in the game.  If I had to guess that last carry is when the sprained toe happened.  not good IMO

 
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iamkoza said:
I watched ware's last carry on on GAMEPASS just now,  he gets yanked down awkwardly and it looks like his left foot might have gotten trapped or turned oddly.  Ware is also slow to get up after the play and in my opinion gingerly jogs towards the sideline... after that play west is put in the game and a timeout is called before the snap.... even after the timeout west stays in the game.  If I had to guess that last carry is when the sprained toe happened.  not good IMO
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I know what you are talking about.  I thought he hurt his neck on that play.  Dosent matter.  If he puts in a full practice, hes in my lineup.  

 
need2know said:
I know what you are talking about.  I thought he hurt his neck on that play.  Dosent matter.  If he puts in a full practice, hes in my lineup.  
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I remember that play as well. I thought he went down awkwardly and when he got up he immediately called for a sub as he jogged back to the sidelines. 

 
Ed Werder not me said this...

"Charles is the least healthy of all the RBs the Chiefs have on the roster right now"

"Charles was running with the scout team"

"Chiefs have won 11 straight with no Charles at RB"

"I'm told when Charles returns that this is RBBC and that the offense will no longer be built around Jamal Charles."

 
Ministry of Pain said:
Ed Werder not me said this...

"Charles is the least healthy of all the RBs the Chiefs have on the roster right now"

"Charles was running with the scout team"

"Chiefs have won 11 straight with no Charles at RB"

"I'm told when Charles returns that this is RBBC and that the offense will no longer be built around Jamal Charles."
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This is the End, Beautiful Friend

This is the End, My Only friend, The End

 
I put feelers out there today for a challenge trade (RB 1 for 1) for Ware.  I want to know what the market is, and if I could get someone who will get decent touches all year. 

I heard from the Charles owner, but his tradeable inventory is West, Henry, and Ivory, none of which interest me.  I heard from another guy but he needs RB's too and is trying to trade WR or TE.

I'm imagining a fair deal is someone like Danny Woodhead or Theo Riddick, although I hope like many here that Ware keeps putting up RB2 numbers even with Charles back.  Are you guys seeing anything?

 
I have a question for folks...when did it seem clear that Charles in the late 2nd was going to be a disaster?

I didn't catch wind of this situation UNTIL 1-2 days before the NFL Kickoff and I thought West was the back up and got whipped at the post for being hard headed about it. I truly was thinking it was West with Charles returning w/in a week or two. Lots of FFPC owners took Charles late 2nd to mid 3rd almost the entire month of August leading up the season opener, when did this become so apparent that things were going to be different? No print publication was anywhere near on top of this. Just curious really.  

 
Ministry of Pain said:
I have a question for folks...when did it seem clear that Charles in the late 2nd was going to be a disaster?

I didn't catch wind of this situation UNTIL 1-2 days before the NFL Kickoff and I thought West was the back up and got whipped at the post for being hard headed about it. I truly was thinking it was West with Charles returning w/in a week or two. Lots of FFPC owners took Charles late 2nd to mid 3rd almost the entire month of August leading up the season opener, when did this become so apparent that things were going to be different? No print publication was anywhere near on top of this. Just curious really.  
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There was a story by a beat reporter with Charles indicating he wouldn't be ready that went viral. Ware was taking most 1st team reps and looking very strong in preseason, I think with West sidelined for an injury. Somehow Ware hype gained huge momentum a week or so prior to kickoff.

 
3optic said:
There was a story by a beat reporter with Charles indicating he wouldn't be ready that went viral. Ware was taking most 1st team reps and looking very strong in preseason, I think with West sidelined for an injury. Somehow Ware hype gained huge momentum a week or so prior to kickoff.
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Exactly my recollection as well. I thought I read it on the Shark Pool actually... weekdays prior to Labor Day weekend.

 
Charles is fantastic but even prior to the news that Ware was looking like the guy to start the season, was surprised how early Charles was going.  29, coming off 2nd major knee injury and the team was 10-1 without him last year, let someone else take him early.

 
3optic said:
Ware was going 7th/8th round in a couple of my late drafts.
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This made me realize the main reason I like auction so much better than snake is that you don't have to overdraft on your late round targets.  I only had to go to $2 for Ware but I was prepared to go up to $8 or so.

 
achiappanza said:
This made me realize the main reason I like auction so much better than snake is that you don't have to overdraft on your late round targets.  I only had to go to $2 for Ware but I was prepared to go up to $8 or so.
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In a more savvy contact keeper he went for 17 bucks.. Later in the week, another dynasty I snagged him for $5. 

both esentiially $200 cap

 
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Yeah, the markets may be different in different leagues, but at least with an open auction you're never paying more than you have to.  With a snake draft, you might take someone three rounds before anyone else was going to.

 
Ministry of Pain said:
I have a question for folks...when did it seem clear that Charles in the late 2nd was going to be a disaster?

I didn't catch wind of this situation UNTIL 1-2 days before the NFL Kickoff and I thought West was the back up and got whipped at the post for being hard headed about it. I truly was thinking it was West with Charles returning w/in a week or two. Lots of FFPC owners took Charles late 2nd to mid 3rd almost the entire month of August leading up the season opener, when did this become so apparent that things were going to be different? No print publication was anywhere near on top of this. Just curious really.  
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You're 100% right MOP, I did not see it coming either. In hindsight, Reid did advise, JC will be ready for week 1 during training camp (recall reading a few times). I should have taken that with a grain of salt   :shrug:

 
achiappanza said:
I put feelers out there today for a challenge trade (RB 1 for 1) for Ware.  I want to know what the market is, and if I could get someone who will get decent touches all year. 

I heard from the Charles owner, but his tradeable inventory is West, Henry, and Ivory, none of which interest me.  I heard from another guy but he needs RB's too and is trying to trade WR or TE.

I'm imagining a fair deal is someone like Danny Woodhead or Theo Riddick, although I hope like many here that Ware keeps putting up RB2 numbers even with Charles back.  Are you guys seeing anything?
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Offered Ware + Evans for Julio + Yeldon. Other owner is Charles owner and is considering.

 
If you have him, Ware was a gift, Evans got progressively more valuable as the drafting season went on.  Both could carry you into the playoffs.

Julio was high end from the start, T.J. decreased in value... Ivory.

Ware or Evans could carry you into the playoffs.  And Julio could do the same.  So read that as 2 carries against one.

 But, I think your guy should take the trade.  And you should do it if only if you are long Ware and short Julio in your portfolio.  

Evans facilitates the trade.  T.J. is a long shot.

 
Bobegnops said:
If you have him, Ware was a gift, Evans got progressively more valuable as the drafting season went on.  Both could carry you into the playoffs.

Julio was high end from the start, T.J. decreased in value... Ivory.

Ware or Evans could carry you into the playoffs.  And Julio could do the same.  So read that as 2 carries against one.

 But, I think your guy should take the trade.  And you should do it if only if you are long Ware and short Julio in your portfolio.  

Evans facilitates the trade.  T.J. is a long shot.
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Agree with all of this. It's not that I don't like Evans, but Julio > Evans and I don't truly need Ware, he is a luxury. I look at it as a win-win. I probably have the best roster in the league (IMO), so it's a case where 2 for 1 improves my lineup and I can afford it. If the trade happens and I get anything out of Yeldon, that's gravy. This is redraft by the way.

ETA: As for Ware being a gift, I kind of agree, but then again I am in 4 leagues and own him in all of them, so I definitely targeted him and didn't just get lucky.

 
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Ministry of Pain said:
I have a question for folks...when did it seem clear that Charles in the late 2nd was going to be a disaster?

I didn't catch wind of this situation UNTIL 1-2 days before the NFL Kickoff and I thought West was the back up and got whipped at the post for being hard headed about it. I truly was thinking it was West with Charles returning w/in a week or two. Lots of FFPC owners took Charles late 2nd to mid 3rd almost the entire month of August leading up the season opener, when did this become so apparent that things were going to be different? No print publication was anywhere near on top of this. Just curious really.  
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Your question is very solid--but the answer is very subjective.  It's all about how we each process th information that is available. During draft time when Charles was going in the 2nd--and sometimes would rarely fall in the 3rd round--I personally put him on my "Do not draft" list.  There are many reasons why I felt this way:

1. The Cheifs won something like 10-11 straight games in a row without him staring last season. Both Ware and West proved to be very capable of holding the fort down while Charles was away. 

2. I personally feel like the running style of Charles basically requires him to be fully healthy to be effective. He cuts and slashes a lot--and prematurely returning him from a second ACL injury makes no sense.  The fact that he wasn't ready to do preseason work after 9 months made me think that the Chiefs are in no hurry to bring him back.  

3. Let's not forget that West got hurt last season and I believe he was also battling some injuries in the preseason. 

4. The Cheifs rely so much on their running backs and running game in general that it seems unlikely that they would make an aging--coming off an injury- running back a "Bell cow" when they have other players that have proven to be very capable. It just soo happened to be that Ware was the healthiest back from last season, into training camp, and into the preseason. 

That's why I personally loved Ware's upside before any reports came out. It all came down to connecting the dots.  With that being said--fantasy sports is all about using available information and digesting it to make predictions. Assuming Ware is healthy--I predict that he'll maintain some value even when Charles comes back. For me--I just don't see how a guy that had nine months to heal from an injury is not healthy enough to play week 1--but they find him healthy enough to touch the ball 20 times 2-3 weeks later.  I could very well be wrong--as it's just a prediction--but it'll be interesting to see how it plays out. 

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
Your question is very solid--but the answer is very subjective.  It's all about how we each process th information that is available. During draft time when Charles was going in the 2nd--and sometimes would rarely fall in the 3rd round--I personally put him on my "Do not draft" list.  There are many reasons why I felt this way:

1. The Cheifs won something like 10-11 straight games in a row without him staring last season. Both Ware and West proved to be very capable of holding the fort down while Charles was away. 

2. I personally feel like the running style of Charles basically requires him to be fully healthy to be effective. He cuts and slashes a lot--and prematurely returning him from a second ACL injury makes no sense.  The fact that he wasn't ready to do preseason work after 9 months made me think that the Chiefs are in no hurry to bring him back.  

3. Let's not forget that West got hurt last season and I believe he was also battling some injuries in the preseason. 

4. The Cheifs rely so much on their running backs and running game in general that it seems unlikely that they would make an aging--coming off an injury- running back a "Bell cow" when they have other players that have proven to be very capable. It just soo happened to be that Ware was the healthiest back from last season, into training camp, and into the preseason. 

That's why I personally loved Ware's upside before any reports came out. It all came down to connecting the dots.  With that being said--fantasy sports is all about using available information and digesting it to make predictions. Assuming Ware is healthy--I predict that he'll maintain some value even when Charles comes back. For me--I just don't see how a guy that had nine months to heal from an injury is not healthy enough to play week 1--but they find him healthy enough to touch the ball 20 times 2-3 weeks later.  I could very well be wrong--as it's just a prediction--but it'll be interesting to see how it plays out. 
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Solid post.

Despite the warning signs, I traded for Charles right before the season.  Already had Ware and then got West pretty cheap.  I bought into the Chiefs run game more than Charles himself.  I knew it could be a few weeks until he was back up to normal game speed, but still preferred to get him for use later in the year.  There are few guys who can put up the type of points Charles does with as few touches required.  

I'm still ok with my decision, but I am throwing feelers out on Charles.  First good offer and I'll probably move him. 

 
jmo87usc said:
Solid post.

Despite the warning signs, I traded for Charles right before the season.  Already had Ware and then got West pretty cheap.  I bought into the Chiefs run game more than Charles himself.  I knew it could be a few weeks until he was back up to normal game speed, but still preferred to get him for use later in the year.  There are few guys who can put up the type of points Charles does with as few touches required.  

I'm still ok with my decision, but I am throwing feelers out on Charles.  First good offer and I'll probably move him. 
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Great post yourself.  Honestly--and I don't want to answer in such a way that it comes across as an "Assistant Coach" type post--but I think there are a few moving parts in your situation.  Part of it is dependent on how much your investment in Charles costed you.  If you got him at a fair/cheap price--you might be better off waiting for him to have one of his typical big games--and move him when the fantasy community is energized on him.  Even though I'm a believer in Ware--I'm also a believer that Charles will most likely be very fantasy relevant at some point this season.  Also--do not discount this possibility.  I expect the Chiefs to run a lot this season--which means that it's very possible that the Chiefs are actually expecting either Ware or West to get worn out or injured themselves.  That could be a natural entry point for Charles to get back into a more normal load.  

In any case--my personal opinion on Charles is actually the opposite.  I'd probably be interested in buying him really low if I didn't own him.  If I did own him--I would be on the "hold" side until his value peaks at some point during the season.  

 
Anyone involved or seen a trade involving Ware?  I'm negotiating with the Charles owner but having hard time setting a value.

 
Just Win Baby said:
Offered Ware + Evans for Julio + Yeldon. Other owner is Charles owner and is considering.
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OK, I can see both sides of that.

I had a chat with another owner.  I thought his valuation was pretty fair.  He said he'd consider him an RB1 for two more games then a backup the rest of the way, so he'd set a floor at 25% of RB1 value.  But I said I expect him to get 25% of the volume even after Charles came back and in that case he'd say 50% of RB1 value.  We agreed that meant the better half of a RBBC.

 
That's not bad way to value it although as the Charles owner, Ware is worth a tad more as a golden ticket handcuff.  I was offered Alshon for Ware and Maclin.  I like the concept of the trade. Owner gets Ware and a solid WR2/3.  Just that I'd want a better WR in return.  Could be because I'm not very high on Alshon so I'm looking at the value wrong.

 
Ministry of Pain said:
I have a question for folks...when did it seem clear that Charles in the late 2nd was going to be a disaster?

I didn't catch wind of this situation UNTIL 1-2 days before the NFL Kickoff and I thought West was the back up and got whipped at the post for being hard headed about it. I truly was thinking it was West with Charles returning w/in a week or two. Lots of FFPC owners took Charles late 2nd to mid 3rd almost the entire month of August leading up the season opener, when did this become so apparent that things were going to be different? No print publication was anywhere near on top of this. Just curious really.  
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It was the 31st when the story was a rumble, Sept 1 when it became louder.

 
Boone22 said:
Jamaal Charles - RB -  Chiefs



ESPN Chiefs reporter Adam Teicher reports Jamaal Charles "hasn’t regained the role -- full-time featured back -- he had before last season’s torn ACL."
Teicher reports Spencer Ware is handling most of Kansas City's first-team running back reps in practice. Specifically, Teicher wrote that Ware "generally gets a lot of the starter’s snaps in practice. Charcandrick West gets some. Sometimes there are a few left for Charles, too." On Tuesday, coach Andy Reid said Tamba Hali (knee) is "a little further along than what Jamaal is right now," in their respective recoveries. At this point, it's unclear what Charles' role will be in Week 1 against the Chargers. An early-year RBBC appears likely. Due to their backfield depth, Teicher suggests the Chiefs "can afford to take the longer view with Charles."

Related: Spencer Ware, Charcandrick West
 
Source: ESPN.com 
Aug 30 - 8:26 PM
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@Ministry of Pain I believe this is and the interview with Charles are what started the rush to Ware and the drop of Charles.

 
jbz said:
Anyone involved or seen a trade involving Ware?  I'm negotiating with the Charles owner but having hard time setting a value.
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Redraft .5 ppr I tried moving Gurley & Maclin for Evans and Ware and got denied.  10 team league and we can carry 4 bench spots and the gal in the league had both Evans & Ware on the bench.  Thought i would try.  

 
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