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Star Wars III SPOILERS discussion thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter BGP
- Start date
Capella
Footballguy
somebody woke up on the wrong side of his chewbacca bedsheets this morning.I rarely have any explanation for this stuff, but I just assumed they didn't know what the 'balance' consisted of. I highly doubt they would be looking to train him if they knew they'd all end up dead.
Rounders
Footballguy
my 
Aftering finally reading all 19 pages, I feel like I can chime in:First of all I liked the movie and when I think about the 6 of them together I get excited to watch them over and over.I think one aspect that is being forgotten about the movies is that when ANH was first created, it was not intended to be #4 in a 6 part series. Lucas and his producers were skeptical if it would even make money. I think that once it became so popular it was then that Lucas needed to start to create a back story. I give Lucas a ton of credit for making ESB and ROTJ and turning 1 movie into a great trilogy. I give him even more credit for then some 20 years later going back and writing the prequels when we all know how the story will end. I think that is an extremly difficult thing to do. I know that there are some plot holes in the story, but that's acceptable (to me at least) because of the expectations that were placed on this new trilogy. I think Lucas did a great job of tying up all the lose ends. Did he satisfy everyone? Most likely not, but I don't think that he left a galring hole in the story, which was important. Yeah he could have done some things differently (pod raceing or make the movie 3 hours) but he did it for his own reasons. (Side note: I think that pod racing scenes were important because it showed that Anakin was a gifted youngster ahead of his time, could it have been shorter, sure but it wasn't. As for the whiny kid in AOTC, one should only look at Luke in ANH and understand that Lucas is trying to give you an image of a bratty teenager who thinks they can take on the world, the only difference is these two can.)I like the general story of good vs evil, battling your inner demons, and learning to make amends for your wrong doings. These are the pieces of the story that I will take from it, not that the story was unbeleivable (hey it's sci-fi).All in all a good movie with a better story. I'm excited to read the books after hearing from so many of you the amount of detail in them, which leads me to one question; does anyone have a list (or can point me to one) that has the list of books with authors and the order that I should read them in?
Aftering finally reading all 19 pages, I feel like I can chime in:First of all I liked the movie and when I think about the 6 of them together I get excited to watch them over and over.I think one aspect that is being forgotten about the movies is that when ANH was first created, it was not intended to be #4 in a 6 part series. Lucas and his producers were skeptical if it would even make money. I think that once it became so popular it was then that Lucas needed to start to create a back story. I give Lucas a ton of credit for making ESB and ROTJ and turning 1 movie into a great trilogy. I give him even more credit for then some 20 years later going back and writing the prequels when we all know how the story will end. I think that is an extremly difficult thing to do. I know that there are some plot holes in the story, but that's acceptable (to me at least) because of the expectations that were placed on this new trilogy. I think Lucas did a great job of tying up all the lose ends. Did he satisfy everyone? Most likely not, but I don't think that he left a galring hole in the story, which was important. Yeah he could have done some things differently (pod raceing or make the movie 3 hours) but he did it for his own reasons. (Side note: I think that pod racing scenes were important because it showed that Anakin was a gifted youngster ahead of his time, could it have been shorter, sure but it wasn't. As for the whiny kid in AOTC, one should only look at Luke in ANH and understand that Lucas is trying to give you an image of a bratty teenager who thinks they can take on the world, the only difference is these two can.)I like the general story of good vs evil, battling your inner demons, and learning to make amends for your wrong doings. These are the pieces of the story that I will take from it, not that the story was unbeleivable (hey it's sci-fi).All in all a good movie with a better story. I'm excited to read the books after hearing from so many of you the amount of detail in them, which leads me to one question; does anyone have a list (or can point me to one) that has the list of books with authors and the order that I should read them in?That would be exremely difficult to do. "Shadows of the Empie" was placed between ESB and ROTJ. Others are scattered around from after ROTJ. I'll try to find a timeline for you.Found one.
Good luck.
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Sidewinder16
Footballguy
I just watched ANH with the commentary last night (OK, I started it late and only "watched" about the first half before falling asleep) and Lucas states that when he wrote the script for that movie he fleshed out everyone's back story in the process. He didn't script all the back story out at the time, but he knew the basic storyline to Ep. I-III back in the 70's. I'm fairly certain he essentially knew the storyline through VI at the time, as well. He does mention, a few times at least, that the prospects for more than one movie were slim, at the time, but he had the entire story (I-VI) in his head, in some form or another.
He's stated many times that his original "idea" was to have a 9 part story. He planned on filming parts 4-6 from the start, but ended up writing 4 so that it could function as a standalone movie in case it bombed.Later, I believe he condensed 7-9 into Return of the Jedi, and cut a lot of stuff out of his originally planned "epic".
Rounders
Footballguy
Even if he had it "written" is his head, it makes you wonder how much of a backstory he tied to each character.Darth Vader - Luke's father, once a jedi, turned to the dark side
Obi-Wan - darth's good pal when he was good
Leia - daughter of darth
Luke - son of darth
There I have created a backstory for them
The keys words are "basic storyline"My point was intended to be that when he made the first movie he did not have the final story in place. I believe the Star Wars phenomenon grew so much that he ran with it, that's all. In the process of running with it he had to make decisions and tie in the past to make his original story more accurate.
Jobber
Footballguy
Actually, there are many more Jedi left alive at the end of EP III than just Obiwan and Yoda. They are just scattered across the galaxy. It is after EP III where Vader and Sideous hunt down and destroy the remaining Jedi (other than Obiwan and Yoda).Not that I agree with the 2 jedis left bringing balance - but at the end of the movie we are left with Yoda and Obi - 2 Jedis.finally. Also in regard to the outrageous mathematic theory, at no point are only one Jedi master and his apprentice alive.
Men-in-Cleats
Footballguy
No kidding. She gains about 5 lbs. and then gives birth to two babies that look to be about 12 lbs. each. Giving birth to those two babies she should have needed a wheelbarrow to carry her belly around.
Righetti
Footballguy
I agree with this theory.. basic storyline with basic characters and work it in as best he could. Pretty amazing how well put together it winds up beingEven if he had it "written" is his head, it makes you wonder how much of a backstory he tied to each character.
Darth Vader - Luke's father, once a jedi, turned to the dark side
Obi-Wan - darth's good pal when he was good
Leia - daughter of darth
Luke - son of darth
There I have created a backstory for them
My point was intended to be that when he made the first movie he did not have the final story in place. I believe the Star Wars phenomenon grew so much that he ran with it, that's all. In the process of running with it he had to make decisions and tie in the past to make his original story more accurate.
Statorama
Footballguy
Hey, is this the point where William Shatner gets up on the podium and asks us if we've ever kissed a girl?I agree that the whole Anakin turns to the darkside bit was handled very poorly. A GOOD DIRECTOR would have helped that situation. The outline of the situation is awesome. You have this very talented youngster who is being held back by the old guys (which we in the seats know is for his own good). The youngster gets frustrated that his career is stagnating and makes his move when a position of more 'power' is offered to him. He's also dazzled by the fact that this new position can somehow allegedly manipulate even life and death. There are a lot of people in the world that can relate to being in a situation where push came to shove and you shoved back.
A good director can flesh so many things out if a script is lacking. Heck, at the very least he could have gotten the whole "Anakin needs a father figure" thing to a fever pitch. Or shown more scenes of Sidious and Anakin relating to each other...creating a bond.
Also, Darth Sidious needed to be shown as the baddest MF'r in the galaxy, not just some ordinary Sith. THAT would get someone like Anakin to say "this guy is my freakin master".
All in all though, I really enjoyed this movie and it made me want to see EP IV again.
Edit To Add:
An excellent example of how this can be handled well is by checking out the relationship between Magneto and Pyro in X-Men 2. Just like Palpatine does with Anakin, Magneto is the only one that really seems to talk to Pyro man-to-man. I love when Pyro kinda downplays his powers and Magneto says 'you are a God among insects'...which is just what this kid wanted to hear. The origin of Pyro going dark never seemed forced.
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Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Good thread on why Anakin seemed to turn so fast.
I'm not so sure he did turn that quickly. He's been slowly turning since AOTC. Killing the tuskens, his angry rush to face dooku, his resentment at not being powerful enough to save his mother, his fear of not being able to save his wife...He decided after hearing Palpatine's story about his master that he needed to become more powerful so he could accomplish what he wanted, and consequences be damned. Palpatine was the one offering him that power.
His decision had already been made well before he bowed down to Palpatine.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Agreed. Furthermore, in his mind (twisted as it is) he didn't actually turn at all. From his perspective, he believes (falsely) that it is the Jedi that have turned "evil", as evidenced by his expressing his misgivings about the council to both Obi-Wan and Palpatine.
Giant Wooden Badger
the Beav
Little 
help. What's the deal with the part at the end about Quaigon (sp)? Didn't get that completely.
help. What's the deal with the part at the end about Quaigon (sp)? Didn't get that completely.
this since it took me about three days to read the entire thread.I thought that ROTS was a very good Star Wars movie, not the greatest movie ever made, but within the context of the Star Wars universe it is top 3.
B Maverick
Footballguy
Qui Gon found the way to become the "Jedi Ghosts". Obi Won uses it in IV after Vader kills him to teach Luke and get him to go to Yoda.The training was of how to be able to do that and have basically an eternal presence.Little
BlueOnion
Footballguy
In a nut shell (and may not be completely supported by the movie alone), here are my thoughts.The understanding of the Force continues to evolve; the Sith rose to power by not only embracing emotions but endulging in emotions (greed, fear, hate et al). The Jedi, having grown rigid and complacent waiting for the what they remember of the Sith, refussed to evolve.Little
Qui-Gon, a man who thought 'outside the box' started to believe that some emotions (and attachment) should be embraced. This was considered 'radical' by the Jedi council and they never embraced. Qui-Gin, although not on the Jedi Council allowed himself to 'dabble' in some emotions, such as 'love' (though this storyline is never persued). Because of this, Qui-Gon's spirit could transcend the physical world upon death. This is a radical Jedi revelation.
Actually, Anakin's turn reminds me a lot of many situations in the werewolf games in the FFA. Anakin had been confused for a very, very long time. I've seen innocent villages get confused and you would be surprised how quickly the wolves can sink their teeth into a village once it happens. Same exact deal with Anakin. I've seen it enough times in those games to know. To me, his turn was completely believable.
Mr Dingles
Amish Mafia
Somebody please answer the question.
ShaqAttaq
Morally Ambiguous
Mr Dingles
Amish Mafia
Thank you kind sir.19 3-minute chapters?
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
saw the movie tonight. i liked it quite a bit. did anyone else see the millenium falcon pulling into the same building as obi-wan & annakin when we see padme for the first time?
Giant Wooden Badger
the Beav
Okay, got it. I was just making sure that they weren't saying that he was alive again - in physical form anyway.Qui Gon found the way to become the "Jedi Ghosts". Obi Won uses it in IV after Vader kills him to teach Luke and get him to go to Yoda.The training was of how to be able to do that and have basically an eternal presence.Little
I'm rather late to the party, but Lucas has continually said that the books are not official canon and that he can change anything he wants in order to put it on film.The Dark Lords of the Sith comic book line comes to mind as something that has been fairly well destroyed by the prequels.
Righetti
Footballguy
Crimson Hawk
Axis of Evel
I think you can still see these online at starwars.com.this actually is my biggest complaint about ROTSthere are 2 DVDs of clone wars cartoons
both lead into each other, and the second DVD leads right into ROTS
but the second DVD IS NOT OUT YET!!
it was on cartoon network for a week, then nothing
jplvr
Footballguy
You're kidding. I don't understand half the #### that runs through their minds around here, which is why I come way less often than I used to. People getting run for #### that's been fine for years and the general move board to make this Disneyland... at least in one, or a handful of minds.apparently, my avatar was not deemed acceptable by the board police. i had to change. again.that's twice now.WTF is your Avatar. That is going to give me nightmares.
pantherclub
Footballguy
just got through watching 2-6 and i have a question. How does Luke become such a badass between ESB and ROTJ? How much time is between the two. Because essentially he has the same training because he goes back and Yoda tells him he is done training after he meets Vader. Where didhe learn the mind trick at Jabbas palace?Thanks
