Star Wars Universe (1 Viewer)

[Andy Dufresne]

@Bob Sacamano - I can't pinpoint exactly what I don't like about it. Maybe it just doesn't seem like a Star Wars story to me yet. Maybe it just feels formulaic. I dunno.

But you are right - review bombing is a thing and this one apparently has it bad. But since I think most people are full of **** I ignore all that and make up my own mind.

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

@Bob Sacamano - I can't pinpoint exactly what I don't like about it. Maybe it just doesn't seem like a Star Wars story to me yet. Maybe it just feels formulaic. I dunno.

But you are right - review bombing is a thing and this one apparently has it bad. But since I think most people are full of **** I ignore all that and make up my own mind.

You don't like it because all parts don't match even if the parts are individually well crafted. For instance, the Jedi send a Jedi Knight and Padawan to arrest Osha, accused of killing a Jedi Master, they arrest her, and then put her on an automated prison ship with one guard to take her to Coruscant when they are going there themselves and have a ship large enough to accommodate one more person. What now? After a Jedi Master is killed a Jedi temple has someone break in and try to kill a Jedi, but the room that the Jedi is in has a HOLE in the roof and no one thinks to close it, block it, or guard him or maybe patrol the roof that has a HOLE in it. Or move him to a more secure room. The same Jedis live ACROSS the street from the apothecary and don't notice / don't care / can't be bothered to check into the situation when the guy that has been running it for years apparently is suddenly replaced by a different guy. RIIGGHTTTT. And so, no matter how well an individual scene is acted or how well the special effects are, taken as a whole it just leaves you head scratching and wondering why these characters are doing such weird things.
In short, characters act dumb and as if they are watching the show as well as we are. Plot points are brought up and then resolved in like 5 minutes. Characters just act stupidly and there is a lot of telling and not showing in this show. A show should be able to develop a character back story without an exposition dump.
And I can't watch anymore, Star Wars has been massacred by people that don't understand or don't care about the original vision of the Universe really, and then hack at the corpse with poorly written shows.

 

[Jaysus]

neat, this thread sucks again already.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

neat, this thread sucks again already.

Because some kids think the Emperor's clothes look a bit tattered?

 

[Joe Schmo]

Star Wars in general has always had sloppy writing, stilted dialogue and massive plot holes but was also a gateway to space fantasy writ large thanks to a lot of neat fx and odd and often interesting beings from other worlds. Most worked, some(teddy bears and Jamaican lizards) did not but overall the movies and shows are escapism and fun ways to pass the time when you want to turn your mind off and forget the stresses of your life. Sometimes though, the stories, especially recently, venture into sophomoric territory that makes it hard to just be entertained while some are just plain old dumb and cringey. Acolyte so far has promise but there is a YA show kind of feel in the first couple of episodes that make me wonder if I am no longer the target audience, if so fine but I am ever hopeful.

 

[psychobillies]

@Bob Sacamano - I can't pinpoint exactly what I don't like about it. Maybe it just doesn't seem like a Star Wars story to me yet. Maybe it just feels formulaic. I dunno.

But you are right - review bombing is a thing and this one apparently has it bad. But since I think most people are full of **** I ignore all that and make up my own mind.

You don't like it because all parts don't match even if the parts are individually well crafted. For instance, the Jedi send a Jedi Knight and Padawan to arrest Osha, accused of killing a Jedi Master, they arrest her, and then put her on an automated prison ship with one guard to take her to Coruscant when they are going there themselves and have a ship large enough to accommodate one more person. What now? After a Jedi Master is killed a Jedi temple has someone break in and try to kill a Jedi, but the room that the Jedi is in has a HOLE in the roof and no one thinks to close it, block it, or guard him or maybe patrol the roof that has a HOLE in it. Or move him to a more secure room. The same Jedis live ACROSS the street from the apothecary and don't notice / don't care / can't be bothered to check into the situation when the guy that has been running it for years apparently is suddenly replaced by a different guy. RIIGGHTTTT. And so, no matter how well an individual scene is acted or how well the special effects are, taken as a whole it just leaves you head scratching and wondering why these characters are doing such weird things.
In short, characters act dumb and as if they are watching the show as well as we are. Plot points are brought up and then resolved in like 5 minutes. Characters just act stupidly and there is a lot of telling and not showing in this show. A show should be able to develop a character back story without an exposition dump.
And I can't watch anymore, Star Wars has been massacred by people that don't understand or don't care about the original vision of the Universe really, and then hack at the corpse with poorly written shows.

Why do you hate your mother so much?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Star Wars in general has always had sloppy writing, stilted dialogue and massive plot holes but was also a gateway to space fantasy writ large thanks to a lot of neat fx and odd and often interesting beings from other worlds. Most worked, some(teddy bears and Jamaican lizards) did not but overall the movies and shows are escapism and fun ways to pass the time when you want to turn your mind off and forget the stresses of your life. Sometimes though, the stories, especially recently, venture into sophomoric territory that makes it hard to just be entertained while some are just plain old dumb and cringey. Acolyte so far has promise but there is a YA show kind of feel in the first couple of episodes that make me wonder if I am no longer the target audience, if so fine but I am ever hopeful.

Rogue One was actually pretty good, but I gave up on the franchise after Episode 8. I don't think I've watched a second of Star Wars-related programming since sitting through that installment, and I have no interest in going back. I know Andor was apparently well-received, but there's too much other stuff out there and I'm not willing to invest any more in SW. Not worth it.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Star Wars in general has always had sloppy writing, stilted dialogue and massive plot holes but was also a gateway to space fantasy writ large thanks to a lot of neat fx and odd and often interesting beings from other worlds. Most worked, some(teddy bears and Jamaican lizards) did not but overall the movies and shows are escapism and fun ways to pass the time when you want to turn your mind off and forget the stresses of your life. Sometimes though, the stories, especially recently, venture into sophomoric territory that makes it hard to just be entertained while some are just plain old dumb and cringey. Acolyte so far has promise but there is a YA show kind of feel in the first couple of episodes that make me wonder if I am no longer the target audience, if so fine but I am ever hopeful.

Rogue One was actually pretty good, but I gave up on the franchise after Episode 8. I don't think I've watched a second of Star Wars-related programming since sitting through that installment, and I have no interest in going back. I know Andor was apparently well-received, but there's too much other stuff out there and I'm not willing to invest any more in SW. Not worth it.

There are easier ways to say "Oedipal Complex", friendo.

 

[Battersbox]

Star Wars in general has always had sloppy writing, stilted dialogue and massive plot holes but was also a gateway to space fantasy writ large thanks to a lot of neat fx and odd and often interesting beings from other worlds. Most worked, some(teddy bears and Jamaican lizards) did not but overall the movies and shows are escapism and fun ways to pass the time when you want to turn your mind off and forget the stresses of your life. Sometimes though, the stories, especially recently, venture into sophomoric territory that makes it hard to just be entertained while some are just plain old dumb and cringey. Acolyte so far has promise but there is a YA show kind of feel in the first couple of episodes that make me wonder if I am no longer the target audience, if so fine but I am ever hopeful.

Rogue One was actually pretty good, but I gave up on the franchise after Episode 8. I don't think I've watched a second of Star Wars-related programming since sitting through that installment, and I have no interest in going back. I know Andor was apparently well-received, but there's too much other stuff out there and I'm not willing to invest any more in SW. Not worth it.

I get you 100%. But I will guarantee you Andor is worth your time.

 

[zoonation]

Just watched the first two eps of the Acolyte on the plane yesterday. Same complaint as everything except Andor: the writing is just so vanilla. I honestly don't understand how they keep screwing this up. Every single show. The opening scene in ep 1 was laughably bad dialogue.

 

[the moops]

And I can't watch anymore, Star Wars has been massacred by people that don't understand or don't care about the original vision of the Universe really, and then hack at the corpse with poorly written shows.

This is ridiculous. The original stuff is some of the cheesiest writing out there. It's just that we were kids, and we loved it, and still love because of nostalgia. For every plot hole you mention and dumb character you reference, there are at least as many in the originals

 

[Capella]

The opening scene in ep 1 was laughably bad dialogue.

Return of the Jedi had teddy bears defeating the empire. You were just a child then (most likely idk you) so you loved it. That’s the difference.

 

[tymarsas]

Just watched the first two eps of the Acolyte on the plane yesterday. Same complaint as everything except Andor: the writing is just so vanilla. I honestly don't understand how they keep screwing this up. Every single show. The opening scene in ep 1 was laughably bad dialogue.

They just about lost me in the first 5 minutes when she said "attack me with all your strength". Pretty sure I actually groaned at that one. But I'll stick around because the story seems somewhat interesting and I'm a sucker for any star wars.

 

[Jobber]

Solid show so far. If it can become even half as good as Andor, I’ll be ecstatic.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

The opening scene in ep 1 was laughably bad dialogue.

Return of the Jedi had teddy bears defeating the empire. You were just a child then (most likely idk you) so you loved it. That’s the difference.

And "primitives"* running around in pajamas and bare feet defeated the Americans in Vietnam.

*They were primitive only in the sense that they were under equipped, not somehow lesser humans.

I've said this a million times but the OT treated the audience, including children, as somewhat ready of adult themes and stakes. I never felt Star Wars talked down to me when I was a kid.

Just about everything since then has treated the entire audience, children included, AS children.

An easy example is the Jedi myth. In the OT we're told they're the "guardians of Peace and Justice in the galaxy". That sounds awesome! I want to be like THEM!

Except that the prequels and now The Acolyte show that they're really intergalactic Keystone Cops. (The prequels I get, I guess, as the intent was to show they weren't what they once were.) But having a Jedi Master be defeated by someone throwing knives? That all but wrecks the mythology for me.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Just watched the first two eps of the Acolyte on the plane yesterday. Same complaint as everything except Andor: the writing is just so vanilla. I honestly don't understand how they keep screwing this up. Every single show. The opening scene in ep 1 was laughably bad dialogue.

They just about lost me in the first 5 minutes when she said "attack me with all your strength". Pretty sure I actually groaned at that one. But I'll stick around because the story seems somewhat interesting and I'm a sucker for any star wars.

Agree

 

[Joe Schmo]

The opening scene in ep 1 was laughably bad dialogue.

Return of the Jedi had teddy bears defeating the empire. You were just a child then (most likely idk you) so you loved it. That’s the difference.

And "primitives"* running around in pajamas and bare feet defeated the Americans in Vietnam.

*They were primitive only in the sense that they were under equipped, not somehow lesser humans.

I've said this a million times but the OT treated the audience, including children, as somewhat ready of adult themes and stakes. I never felt Star Wars talked down to me when I was a kid.

Just about everything since then has treated the entire audience, children included, AS children.

An easy example is the Jedi myth. In the OT we're told they're the "guardians of Peace and Justice in the galaxy". That sounds awesome! I want to be like THEM!

Except that the prequels and now The Acolyte show that they're really intergalactic Keystone Cops. (The prequels I get, I guess, as the intent was to show they weren't what they once were.) But having a Jedi Master be defeated by someone throwing knives? That all but wrecks the mythology for me.

Yeah, I admit I processed those original movies differently from you, Andy, and the teddy bears aren't the only example of being talked down too. The biggest of course is the black hat wearing villain walking across the screen to his own dastardly tune. Not exactly a subtle cue. Add in the ghost picnic at the end of Jedi with Anni, Ben and yoda all smile after the galactic mess they made by using pawns and setting violence in motion. Nice, disney like feel good ending there. The story is a simple good guy-bad guy seven samurai set in space directed towards the tween set of the day. It wasn't deep then even if if got shallower in later installments.

Oh yeah, speaking of keystone cops, let's have a kill to shot ratio on those dreaded storm troopers to go along with their head smacking underwhelming detective skills as they routinely lose our heroes while running into each other around every corner. Benny Hill indeed.

 

[Capella]

Except that the prequels and now The Acolyte show that they're really intergalactic Keystone Cops. (The prequels I get, I guess, as the intent was to show they weren't what they once were.) But having a Jedi Master be defeated by someone throwing knives? That all but wrecks the mythology for me.

Isn’t part of the point of this show to depict how the Jedi are on their downfall from their long productive reign? That’s what I read leading up to the premiere. So that would show why they’re lazy, maybe easy to beat or even overweight when all we’ve learned about them up to now is that they are studious hardcore monks basically.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

The opening scene in ep 1 was laughably bad dialogue.

Return of the Jedi had teddy bears defeating the empire. You were just a child then (most likely idk you) so you loved it. That’s the difference.

And "primitives"* running around in pajamas and bare feet defeated the Americans in Vietnam.

*They were primitive only in the sense that they were under equipped, not somehow lesser humans.

I've said this a million times but the OT treated the audience, including children, as somewhat ready of adult themes and stakes. I never felt Star Wars talked down to me when I was a kid.

Just about everything since then has treated the entire audience, children included, AS children.

An easy example is the Jedi myth. In the OT we're told they're the "guardians of Peace and Justice in the galaxy". That sounds awesome! I want to be like THEM!

Except that the prequels and now The Acolyte show that they're really intergalactic Keystone Cops. (The prequels I get, I guess, as the intent was to show they weren't what they once were.) But having a Jedi Master be defeated by someone throwing knives? That all but wrecks the mythology for me.

Yeah, I admit I processed those original movies differently from you, Andy, and the teddy bears aren't the only example of being talked down too. The biggest of course is the black hat wearing villain walking across the screen to his own dastardly tune. Not exactly a subtle cue. Add in the ghost picnic at the end of Jedi with Anni, Ben and yoda all smile after the galactic mess they made by using pawns and setting violence in motion. Nice, disney like feel good ending there. The story is a simple good guy-bad guy seven samurai set in space directed towards the tween set of the day. It wasn't deep then even if if got shallower in later installments.

Oh yeah, speaking of keystone cops, let's have a kill to shot ratio on those dreaded storm troopers to go along with their head smacking underwhelming detective skills as they routinely lose our heroes while running into each other around every corner. Benny Hill indeed.

Maybe we should just acknowledge that ROTJ is hot garbage -- or at least the second half of that movie is hot garbage -- and really this entire franchise produced a grand total of two good movies.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

The opening scene in ep 1 was laughably bad dialogue.

Return of the Jedi had teddy bears defeating the empire. You were just a child then (most likely idk you) so you loved it. That’s the difference.

And "primitives"* running around in pajamas and bare feet defeated the Americans in Vietnam.

*They were primitive only in the sense that they were under equipped, not somehow lesser humans.

I've said this a million times but the OT treated the audience, including children, as somewhat ready of adult themes and stakes. I never felt Star Wars talked down to me when I was a kid.

Just about everything since then has treated the entire audience, children included, AS children.

An easy example is the Jedi myth. In the OT we're told they're the "guardians of Peace and Justice in the galaxy". That sounds awesome! I want to be like THEM!

Except that the prequels and now The Acolyte show that they're really intergalactic Keystone Cops. (The prequels I get, I guess, as the intent was to show they weren't what they once were.) But having a Jedi Master be defeated by someone throwing knives? That all but wrecks the mythology for me.

Yeah, I admit I processed those original movies differently from you, Andy, and the teddy bears aren't the only example of being talked down too. The biggest of course is the black hat wearing villain walking across the screen to his own dastardly tune. Not exactly a subtle cue. Add in the ghost picnic at the end of Jedi with Anni, Ben and yoda all smile after the galactic mess they made by using pawns and setting violence in motion. Nice, disney like feel good ending there. The story is a simple good guy-bad guy seven samurai set in space directed towards the tween set of the day. It wasn't deep then even if if got shallower in later installments.

Oh yeah, speaking of keystone cops, let's have a kill to shot ratio on those dreaded storm troopers to go along with their head smacking underwhelming detective skills as they routinely lose our heroes while running into each other around every corner. Benny Hill indeed.

Maybe we should just acknowledge that ROTJ is hot garbage -- or at least the second half of that movie is hot garbage -- and really this entire franchise produced a grand total of two good movies.

The last 4 episodes of Clone Wars may be, collectively, better than Empire.

 

[Joe Schmo]

The opening scene in ep 1 was laughably bad dialogue.

Return of the Jedi had teddy bears defeating the empire. You were just a child then (most likely idk you) so you loved it. That’s the difference.

And "primitives"* running around in pajamas and bare feet defeated the Americans in Vietnam.

*They were primitive only in the sense that they were under equipped, not somehow lesser humans.

I've said this a million times but the OT treated the audience, including children, as somewhat ready of adult themes and stakes. I never felt Star Wars talked down to me when I was a kid.

Just about everything since then has treated the entire audience, children included, AS children.

An easy example is the Jedi myth. In the OT we're told they're the "guardians of Peace and Justice in the galaxy". That sounds awesome! I want to be like THEM!

Except that the prequels and now The Acolyte show that they're really intergalactic Keystone Cops. (The prequels I get, I guess, as the intent was to show they weren't what they once were.) But having a Jedi Master be defeated by someone throwing knives? That all but wrecks the mythology for me.

Yeah, I admit I processed those original movies differently from you, Andy, and the teddy bears aren't the only example of being talked down too. The biggest of course is the black hat wearing villain walking across the screen to his own dastardly tune. Not exactly a subtle cue. Add in the ghost picnic at the end of Jedi with Anni, Ben and yoda all smile after the galactic mess they made by using pawns and setting violence in motion. Nice, disney like feel good ending there. The story is a simple good guy-bad guy seven samurai set in space directed towards the tween set of the day. It wasn't deep then even if if got shallower in later installments.

Oh yeah, speaking of keystone cops, let's have a kill to shot ratio on those dreaded storm troopers to go along with their head smacking underwhelming detective skills as they routinely lose our heroes while running into each other around every corner. Benny Hill indeed.

Maybe we should just acknowledge that ROTJ is hot garbage -- or at least the second half of that movie is hot garbage -- and really this entire franchise produced a grand total of two good movies.

I'll go with 2-1/2 cuz the 1/2 of Jedi dealing with father,son, emperor was outstanding, The whole series needs lots more of that and frankly Andor and Rogue One came pretty close which is why to me they stand out.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Except that the prequels and now The Acolyte show that they're really intergalactic Keystone Cops. (The prequels I get, I guess, as the intent was to show they weren't what they once were.) But having a Jedi Master be defeated by someone throwing knives? That all but wrecks the mythology for me.

Isn’t part of the point of this show to depict how the Jedi are on their downfall from their long productive reign? That’s what I read leading up to the premiere. So that would show why they’re lazy, maybe easy to beat or even overweight when all we’ve learned about them up to now is that they are studious hardcore monks basically.

They are cops. Guardians of peace and justice. Sometimes they have to get all SWAT on your ###, but generally, they want to hang out in the bar with their friends, avoid excessive paperwork or politics, train the new recruits to do all the grunt stuff they don't want to do, and probably move on to cushy security jobs with better pay after the monotony gets to them and they get tired of the higher ups busting their balls.

Unless they just decide to check out and meditate for life, apparently.

 

[Capella]

The opening scene in ep 1 was laughably bad dialogue.

Return of the Jedi had teddy bears defeating the empire. You were just a child then (most likely idk you) so you loved it. That’s the difference.

And "primitives"* running around in pajamas and bare feet defeated the Americans in Vietnam.

*They were primitive only in the sense that they were under equipped, not somehow lesser humans.

I've said this a million times but the OT treated the audience, including children, as somewhat ready of adult themes and stakes. I never felt Star Wars talked down to me when I was a kid.

Just about everything since then has treated the entire audience, children included, AS children.

An easy example is the Jedi myth. In the OT we're told they're the "guardians of Peace and Justice in the galaxy". That sounds awesome! I want to be like THEM!

Except that the prequels and now The Acolyte show that they're really intergalactic Keystone Cops. (The prequels I get, I guess, as the intent was to show they weren't what they once were.) But having a Jedi Master be defeated by someone throwing knives? That all but wrecks the mythology for me.

Yeah, I admit I processed those original movies differently from you, Andy, and the teddy bears aren't the only example of being talked down too. The biggest of course is the black hat wearing villain walking across the screen to his own dastardly tune. Not exactly a subtle cue. Add in the ghost picnic at the end of Jedi with Anni, Ben and yoda all smile after the galactic mess they made by using pawns and setting violence in motion. Nice, disney like feel good ending there. The story is a simple good guy-bad guy seven samurai set in space directed towards the tween set of the day. It wasn't deep then even if if got shallower in later installments.

Oh yeah, speaking of keystone cops, let's have a kill to shot ratio on those dreaded storm troopers to go along with their head smacking underwhelming detective skills as they routinely lose our heroes while running into each other around every corner. Benny Hill indeed.

Maybe we should just acknowledge that ROTJ is hot garbage -- or at least the second half of that movie is hot garbage -- and really this entire franchise produced a grand total of two good movies.

I still liked it. I’ve liked them all except Attack of the Clones and probably Skywalker I guess. It’s just not that serious to me. Fun escapism. I like the universe.

 

[Joe Schmo]

Except that the prequels and now The Acolyte show that they're really intergalactic Keystone Cops. (The prequels I get, I guess, as the intent was to show they weren't what they once were.) But having a Jedi Master be defeated by someone throwing knives? That all but wrecks the mythology for me.

Isn’t part of the point of this show to depict how the Jedi are on their downfall from their long productive reign? That’s what I read leading up to the premiere. So that would show why they’re lazy, maybe easy to beat or even overweight when all we’ve learned about them up to now is that they are studious hardcore monks basically.

They are cops. Guardians of peace and justice. Sometimes they have to get all SWAT on your ###, but generally, they want to hang out in the bar with their friends, avoid excessive paperwork or politics, train the new recruits to do all the grunt stuff they don't want to do, and probably move on to cushy security jobs with better pay after the monotony gets to them and they get tired of the higher ups busting their balls.

Unless they just decide to check out and meditate for life, apparently.

That's when they get someone to off them with a lightsaber so they can float around having a party with the other Jedi ghosts. Almost like purgatory.

 

[Dan Lambskin]

The opening scene in ep 1 was laughably bad dialogue.

Return of the Jedi had teddy bears defeating the empire. You were just a child then (most likely idk you) so you loved it. That’s the difference.

And "primitives"* running around in pajamas and bare feet defeated the Americans in Vietnam.

*They were primitive only in the sense that they were under equipped, not somehow lesser humans.

I've said this a million times but the OT treated the audience, including children, as somewhat ready of adult themes and stakes. I never felt Star Wars talked down to me when I was a kid.

Just about everything since then has treated the entire audience, children included, AS children.

An easy example is the Jedi myth. In the OT we're told they're the "guardians of Peace and Justice in the galaxy". That sounds awesome! I want to be like THEM!

Except that the prequels and now The Acolyte show that they're really intergalactic Keystone Cops. (The prequels I get, I guess, as the intent was to show they weren't what they once were.) But having a Jedi Master be defeated by someone throwing knives? That all but wrecks the mythology for me.

Yeah, I admit I processed those original movies differently from you, Andy, and the teddy bears aren't the only example of being talked down too. The biggest of course is the black hat wearing villain walking across the screen to his own dastardly tune. Not exactly a subtle cue. Add in the ghost picnic at the end of Jedi with Anni, Ben and yoda all smile after the galactic mess they made by using pawns and setting violence in motion. Nice, disney like feel good ending there. The story is a simple good guy-bad guy seven samurai set in space directed towards the tween set of the day. It wasn't deep then even if if got shallower in later installments.

Oh yeah, speaking of keystone cops, let's have a kill to shot ratio on those dreaded storm troopers to go along with their head smacking underwhelming detective skills as they routinely lose our heroes while running into each other around every corner. Benny Hill indeed.

Maybe we should just acknowledge that ROTJ is hot garbage -- or at least the second half of that movie is hot garbage -- and really this entire franchise produced a grand total of two good movies.

The last 4 episodes of Clone Wars may be, collectively, better than Empire.

Right up there with Episode 3 as some of the best Star Wars content ever made

 

[Dan Lambskin]

Still can’t believe Ewan wasn’t even nominated for an Oscar

 

[Bob Sacamano]

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Categorizing anyone who criticizes a non-white male character or story featuring the same as a racist misogynist is simply inaccurate.

I dont think what @Bob Sacamano said had anything to do with race or female character did he?

"Your mother was probably the first strong female antagonist you hated". Yeah he did. But we're past that now.

"What, specifically, besides the diverse cast isn't very good?"

I'm a Disney loving Biden loving libtard so I certainly don't mind the diversity, but I think @Joe Schmo summed it up well. It just kinda feels like the CW did a Star Wars show.

I have the same complaint I did with Obi-Wan (although Obi-Wan had the cool Vader duel to bail it out). It's....fine....I guess, but given the source material I was hoping for better than "fine" during an age of TV where there are 60,000 shows that are at least "fine" or better.

 

[Gr00vus]

The force is dumb. Vader being Luke's dad is dumb. Leia being Luke's sister is dumb. On and on it goes. Still it was entertaining, mainly because they had some really good characters, occasionally played by pretty good actors (and sometimes pretty bad actors). Plus it's in space with the best special effects and sound possible at the time of production. This was never high concept art. Some of the product has been even dumber than that, particularly when they're retreading the same storylines and/or selling toys was the main priority.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Star Wars in general has always had sloppy writing, stilted dialogue and massive plot holes but was also a gateway to space fantasy writ large thanks to a lot of neat fx and odd and often interesting beings from other worlds. Most worked, some(teddy bears and Jamaican lizards) did not but overall the movies and shows are escapism and fun ways to pass the time when you want to turn your mind off and forget the stresses of your life. Sometimes though, the stories, especially recently, venture into sophomoric territory that makes it hard to just be entertained while some are just plain old dumb and cringey. Acolyte so far has promise but there is a YA show kind of feel in the first couple of episodes that make me wonder if I am no longer the target audience, if so fine but I am ever hopeful.

Rogue One was actually pretty good, but I gave up on the franchise after Episode 8. I don't think I've watched a second of Star Wars-related programming since sitting through that installment, and I have no interest in going back. I know Andor was apparently well-received, but there's too much other stuff out there and I'm not willing to invest any more in SW. Not worth it.

My hot take is that Andor is a legit top 10 show of all-time whether you care about Star Wars or not. I think it's worth a watch even if you're done with Star Wars because Star Wars barely matters to it.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Categorizing anyone who criticizes a non-white male character or story featuring the same as a racist misogynist is simply inaccurate.

I dont think what @Bob Sacamano said had anything to do with race or female character did he?

"Your mother was probably the first strong female antagonist you hated". Yeah he did. But we're past that now.

"What, specifically, besides the diverse cast isn't very good?"

I'm a Disney loving Biden loving libtard so I certainly don't mind the diversity, but I think @Joe Schmo summed it up well. It just kinda feels like the CW did a Star Wars show.

I have the same complaint I did with Obi-Wan (although Obi-Wan had the cool Vader duel to bail it out). It's....fine....I guess, but given the source material I was hoping for better than "fine" during an age of TV where there are 60,000 shows that are at least "fine" or better.

I agree 100%, regardless of your political flaws.

 

[Rustoleum]

The only thing I am a little disappointed in is young actors (not limited to children) who don’t know how to convey anger or resentment other than by making “tantrum” face the whole time they are on screen.

Mae, Moll from the last season of Star Trek Discovery (and also the Night Agent), the boy from Lost in Space, probably half the current GOT cast, the fire sister from the recent Last Airbender thingy and some others that are slipping my mind currently have all annoyed me to some extent.

She wasn’t asked to play “angry” I suppose, but Ms.Marvel was completely the opposite for me. She stood out even more when next to that cardboard cutoff of Brie Larson in the movie.

 

[Dan Lambskin]

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Probably going to have to watch these a couple at a time. Will prob be a week+ before I'm willing to venture back into here. I already know one annoying thing from clone wars we're going to get. Hoping they don't go too far into it.

 

[Peggy]

First two episodes were horrible. I'll keep watching though.

 

[need2know]

so only andor has been really good storytelling. its so sad disney has these rights.
im almost to the point of just not watching any of it any longer. whats really bad is i feel like my expectations are pretty low and they cant even meet that.

 

[TripItUp]

so only andor has been really good storytelling. its so sad disney has these rights.
im almost to the point of just not watching any of it any longer. whats really bad is i feel like my expectations are pretty low and they cant even meet that.

I'm somewhere in the middle as I really enjoy the Mandalorian and Andor.

But yeah, series like this are watering down the brand if not tarnishing it.

Also, we've entered Star Wars fatigue IMHO. Disney is going to squeeze this franchise for every dollar it can muster.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Oof. That 3rd episode was rough

 

[Dan Lambskin]

They should do like an 80s/90s style sitcom with young Anakin and Jar-Jar Binks

 

[Joe Schmo]

They should do like an 80s/90s style sitcom with young Anakin and Jar-Jar Binks

Yes and set it on Endor and they can be Ewok herders working for Jabba. You can call it Herd It on Endor(cue theme song and opening montage)

 

[Capella]

Oof. That 3rd episode was rough

I thought it was ok. They’ve all been ok to me. 3/5 stars or whatever.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Thoughts while wondering why the animation arm of SW seems so much better at this than the live action arm.

(blews out)

Nevermind. Fixed the spoiler tags.

Spoiler

Negative:
-The two things I liked least in Clone Wars were the Mortis God episodes and the Nightsisters episodes. So I hate that we're back to force witches and the dark magic, walking zombies fighting battledroids stuff. Not a fan. Mother Talzin kinda ruined force witches for me. On the plus side, we're also going more into the Mortis stuff in Ahsoka. So, people on these production teams watched Clone Wars, found the two things someone would view and have the reaction, "Well, somebody was REALLY high when they wrote that," and decided to double down on both of them? Cool.
-But the Nightsisters lived in a bad### world that looked interesting. These witches? This was supposed to be an uninhabited planet? Why? It looked like Flagstaff. WTF? You can't do better than that?
-The acting wasn't... good. The hokie chanting in the witch ceremony was straight out of a Disney Disney movie. And partially because of the acting, if we were meant to feel sympathy for the coven because the Jedi come crash their party, that was poorly executed. They don't come across sympathetic at all. Probably some dialog issues causing this, too. If that wasn't the intent, then I'm kinda shuked. They were just there. No real connection. I didn't really feel anything seeing them all dead. That's probably not good?
-I don't love that they've gone back to the virgin birth story again, but I don't find it Canon-breaking or universe-destroying the way some are hyperbolically saying. But there should be someone in every Star Wars production room whose only job is to say, "No, that's dumb. We've done that before. Be original." I'm willing to suspend complete judgment until we know the full story. Maybe this is a precursor to Anakin and a trial run by a Darth Plagueis or his master. Maybe the witches teach/taught one of them something about doing this? If this is the thing that transfers knowledge of such things to the Sith or it's knowledge they obtained from the Sith, then it's maybe better than, "Wa-La! Look what we pulled out of where. Rocky and Bullwinkle got nuthin' on us." Otherwise it just seems like a lame recycle.
-There are also things that defy explanation currently, but I think/hope they'll be covered in the positive part of this.

Positive:
-I still like Sol. He seems resiliently tortured.
-And I like the new Wookiee look. Shaved and tattooed head is a Wookiee winner.
-Despite my objections to the witch/dark magic aspect of this, I DO like that we get to see there are other Force users who view the force differently than Jedi and even the Sith. That just makes sense. There's no reason every being would be connected to the force and only two groups of people would ever use it or figure out how to harness it. Two religions can believe in a higher power without having to believe accessing that higher power requires the same approach, has the same constraints, results in the same outcomes, etc. I don't mind Mother A's interpretation of the force, what it is and how it should work at all. Her saying it doesn't make it new force Canon. It's one cult's perspective on the force, which isn't the force. But is.
-I also like that we get to see the different views of the Jedi throughout the galaxy. They're arrogant and presumptuous. And while they aren't stealing kids, they're definitely pushing boundaries. They're space pigs going into hoods and throwing their weight around. No wonder the galaxy was eventually receptive to turning against them.
-We're clearly seeing these events through the eyes of a young girl, and there are things going on that we're not seeing because of that. She turned away and when she turned back the fire was raging. That fire didn't just go from 0 to 100 without help because of a book. What don't we know about yet? And there BETTER BE something we don't know about yet or that's terrible production. But I'm certain there is. The fire also didn't kill the coven. What did? Again, there's something we don't know about yet. The Jedi? The Sith? Did Mother Aniseya go all Jim Jones on the place to keep her daughter from being taken? It flashed too quickly for me to tell if she was one of the corpses shown with the coven. Mae's 180 to, "Then I'll kill you" also feels like it has a missing element, though maybe she IS just an evil #####.

It gave the two girls backstories you could understand without waiting an inappropriately long period of time to get there. That's an improvement over Ahsoka, at least. And it feels like the two girls are mis-cast. Osha was unbalanced, afraid, selfish and wanted to see the world. She was young Anakin imo. Mae was more centered and selfless. Apart from a murdery, sororicidal streak, she was more Jedi and Osha more Sith. I still want to know what actually happened and where it's going, despite the flaws.

tl;dr - I get why this episode would be more divisive. The first two were still just meh and neither deserving of praise nor all the hate.

 

[kupcho1]

Certainly not to the extent of getting 26% on rotten tomatoes. That's a concerted effort by people with agendas. It isn't a remotely reasonable reflection of content.

Outside of someone wanting to short Disney stock, what possible motivation would someone have to "review bomb" a show? What's the agenda? Do you think they're having an impact? Is this why Disney's losing money on their film and TV properties now?

I'm far more skeptical of the overly high ranking provided by the critics. 85% for the Acolyte? I think they're more concerned with continued access, gift bags, etc.
Full disclosure: I haven't seen any of the Acolyte, but based on the tepid reviews in here so far, 85% seems ridiculously high. Is it 19% as the average audience score would indicate? Probably not.

However, I think the general public (i.e., not the die-hard Star Wars fans) have soured on the franchise. This isn't a recent phenomenon. I don't think anyone would argue that there's been anything remotely as good as the first 3 films (or IV - VI to be precise). That's reflected in public opinion. If there is an agenda, I think it is that people would like to see better stories.

For the record, I exited the franchise in whatever movie it was that had Leia flying through space back to the ship. There's suspension of disbelief, but that was a bridge too far. Have I missed anything good since then? Based on what I've read/heard, that answer would be no. (Although I was morbidly curious so as to want to see the toddler outrunning grown men. Now there's a story!)

 

[Peggy]

Oof. That 3rd episode was rough

That was poke my eyes out with a stick bad.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Certainly not to the extent of getting 26% on rotten tomatoes. That's a concerted effort by people with agendas. It isn't a remotely reasonable reflection of content.

Outside of someone wanting to short Disney stock, what possible motivation would someone have to "review bomb" a show? What's the agenda? Do you think they're having an impact? Is this why Disney's losing money on their film and TV properties now?

I'm far more skeptical of the overly high ranking provided by the critics. 85% for the Acolyte? I think they're more concerned with continued access, gift bags, etc.
Full disclosure: I haven't seen any of the Acolyte, but based on the tepid reviews in here so far, 85% seems ridiculously high. Is it 19% as the average audience score would indicate? Probably not.

However, I think the general public (i.e., not the die-hard Star Wars fans) have soured on the franchise. This isn't a recent phenomenon. I don't think anyone would argue that there's been anything remotely as good as the first 3 films (or IV - VI to be precise). That's reflected in public opinion. If there is an agenda, I think it is that people would like to see better stories.

For the record, I exited the franchise in whatever movie it was that had Leia flying through space back to the ship. There's suspension of disbelief, but that was a bridge too far. Have I missed anything good since then? Based on what I've read/heard, that answer would be no. (Although I was morbidly curious so as to want to see the toddler outrunning grown men. Now there's a story!)

To the first, "Disney's woke. Go woke, go broke. We don't want your strong female antagonist. We don't want your gay director or gay characters or your people of color in primary roles." The same reason people forward video on social media of Amandla Stenberg saying, "White people crying is the goal" and claim it's about the Acolyte when it isn't. They have agendas. It's very much a thing.

I can't say I've given thought to rankings for all the content, but...
To the second, I said upthread I believe the last 4 episodes of Clone Wars, collectively, may be as good as or better than Empire, which comes with an implicit better than New Hope or ROTJ. As not the biggest ROTJ fan, Andor is probably better than it. The first 2 seasons of Mandalorian are pretty damn good, as is Rogue One. Better than ROTJ? Maybe. Season 3 of Bad Batch is also quite good, and while I didn't love S2, I'd probably need a rewatch of 1 to give an honest assessment along those lines.

Are there reams of craptacular content, too? Absolutely. And some of that is Disney's fault. A lot of it is George Lucas', too, and lots of folks were complaining about him ruining SW before they started complaining about Disney ruining SW. Which shouldn't be confused with my saying those people are completely wrong. The Prequels and the Postquels? were both loaded with scenes out of a Bad Idea Jeans commercial. I say again, why is it the animation arm of SW seems so much better at this than the live action arm?

To the last, horribad. Might be second only to Vader's, "Nooooooooo" at the end of Revenge of the Sith for the cringiest of cringy moments. But still better-acted than Hayden Christensen discussing his arch-enemy, sand.

 

[Capella]

@Bob Sacamano - multiple good posts in here lately

 

[Andy Dufresne]

The Prequels and the Postquels? were both loaded with scenes out of a Bad Idea Jeans commercial.

What a great reference. "So I figured, 'When's the next time I'll be on Tatooine?'"

 

[Skipdog77]

@Bob Sacamano - I can't pinpoint exactly what I don't like about it. Maybe it just doesn't seem like a Star Wars story to me yet. Maybe it just feels formulaic. I dunno.

But you are right - review bombing is a thing and this one apparently has it bad. But since I think most people are full of **** I ignore all that and make up my own mind.

To me, the story itself could have been interesting but I just don't think any of the characters introduced so far are very interesting. It's not because of their gender, their race, their shoe size, or anything (I think people who use the term "woke" as a derogatory word are dopes), I just don't think the characters were written or developed well which is a shame.

Episode 3 was tough to get through, hopefully it picks up from here. This is supposed to be 100 years removed from the Skywalker saga, but all I could think of when watching Sol and Osha was that I've already seen this (with Qui-Gon and lil' Anakin). There's so much potential for unique stories in the SW universe/timeline, and they are continually rehashing already used plot points.

 

[Joe Schmo]

But still better-acted than Hayden Christensen discussing his arch-enemy, sand.

I can't love this enough!

 

[Osaurus]

They should do like an 80s/90s style sitcom with young Anakin and Jar-Jar Binks

Add the Boba Fett Power Rangers in for style?