Touchdown There
Footballguy
I am 100% sure that did not happen.
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Steelers Broke and 4-6, Bengals Division Champs (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Touchdown There
- Start date
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
This.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Nor does Ben have any grasp of the Steelers cap situation. I wouldn't pay any attention to what he says.Do I detect a note of sarcasm?'TheFanatic said:
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
Not to mention that 3.73M number is not even accurate. They're roughly $5.4-$5.5M under after signing DeCastro, Starks, and Brown and including their unused veteran cap credits - all numbers you see online include the unsigned RFA tag on Wallace. If they were to sign him, trade him, or cut him, that would no longer be relevant. If he signs the tender, that leaves them roughly $2.7M under the cap. But let's not let facts obscure anything here.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
You are disputing a national publication and want us all to just go with the number you post?
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
The silliness with Touchdown There aside, it is disingenuous to say they had virtually identical numbers and then not list something as important as touchdowns scored along with it, as if touchdowns in the NFL are irrelevant. Wallace scoring 8 touchdowns to Brown's 2 is a significant difference.It would be like saying that Randy Moss and Chad Johnson had virtually identical numbers in 2007 because:Moss 98-1493 (15.2 YPC)Chad 93-1440 (15.5 YPC)And just ignoring the fact that Moss had 23 touchdowns to Chad's 8.
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Kenny Powers
Footballguy
Yeah, making $52M must be hell
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
And the first 2.7 (from the rfa tag) has already been allocated to the cap number.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Not sure why I continue with this
but what the heck.If the Steelers cannot afford him then they have no option other than to hope he signs the RFA tender (one they could have reduced significantly if they were worried about the cap) and plays out the season. So which is it? Are the Steelers broke and unable to sign him or are they heartless SOBs that have money but just have a thing against Wallace and want to screw him?
Godsbrother
Footballguy
From what I understand Burress would have likely been signed by another team by now but wants too much money. Personally I don't see Plax as a very good replacement for Wallace. Burress is not a deep threat and that is what Wallace brings to the table and what the team will be lacking if he continues to hold out.
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Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Steelers gameplan for Wallace, no trade, wait hope and if he doesn't sign after a few weeks then sign a veteran free agent, no discussions unless he signs the RFA tender and comes in.
My link
- the $2 million the Steelers took off the table
- the public announcement they were breaking off talks with Wallace
- the public snub of extending the second best receiver on the team
- the fact the Steelers don't have the money to give him the contract he wants
- the new offense
- the angry head coach
- injury risk prior to fufilling contract obligations in order to become an UFA next year
Since the Steelers decided to not sign Wallace and they won't trade him then they won't have him long-term and they didn't intimidate him into signing short-term and their public stance is they won't trade him so this can and probably will linger to the limit of ten weeks into the 2012 season.
The gameplan for Pittsburgh is to wait a few weeks before opting for the veteran FA route so that is the next likely domino to tumble over.
My link
So what is Wallace's incentive to come in and sign the tender? To be fair we should throw out:
- the $2 million the Steelers took off the table
- the public announcement they were breaking off talks with Wallace
- the public snub of extending the second best receiver on the team
- the fact the Steelers don't have the money to give him the contract he wants
- the new offense
- the angry head coach
- injury risk prior to fufilling contract obligations in order to become an UFA next year
Since the Steelers decided to not sign Wallace and they won't trade him then they won't have him long-term and they didn't intimidate him into signing short-term and their public stance is they won't trade him so this can and probably will linger to the limit of ten weeks into the 2012 season.
The gameplan for Pittsburgh is to wait a few weeks before opting for the veteran FA route so that is the next likely domino to tumble over.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
What $2 million did the Steelers take off the table?
belljr
Footballguy
Yeah, i don't think Bracie understood they pft link.The point was they could have lowered his rfa by 2mill but didnt, that's why it was surprising when they cut the ab deal
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
hmm... i had my yinzer buddy text me that Wallace had signed his tender.
Guess not, huh?
Guess not, huh?
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
The portion you bolded says nothing about lowering the RFA tender.The Steelers offered Wallace an extension that had over $2 million more on the table than the RFA tender.
They have taken that money off the table which equates to over $2 million.
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belljr
Footballguy
Not being difficult but I haven't heard about that. Only the 1 year 2.7 million rfa. No mention of a 1 year 4.7 million deal that I know of
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Me neither. You have a link for that Bracie?ETA: I think he is talking about the long term deal they reportedly offered Wallace. That offer was not accepted by Wallace and was taken off the table when camp started and Wallace officially began his hold out.Not being difficult but I haven't heard about that. Only the 1 year 2.7 million rfa. No mention of a 1 year 4.7 million deal that I know of
The Steelers NEVER offered Wallace a 1 year 4.7 million deal.
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Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
You got a link where I said the Steelers offered Wallace a ONE-YEAR deal?The RFA is the money that Wallace would get this year.Me neither. You have a link for that Bracie?ETA: I think he is talking about the long term deal they reportedly offered Wallace. That offer was not accepted by Wallace and was taken off the table when camp started and Wallace officially began his hold out.Not being difficult but I haven't heard about that. Only the 1 year 2.7 million rfa. No mention of a 1 year 4.7 million deal that I know of
The Steelers NEVER offered Wallace a 1 year 4.7 million deal.
The extension that Brown signed equatest to $4.7 million that he will earn this year hence the extentsion that Wallace was offered would logically be at the very minimum equal to the extension signed by Brown.
I used precise and correct verbage of stating the Steelers took 'at least' $2 million off the table when they took that extension off the table. The money that Wallace would get this year is known with the RFA tender and we logically can assume the amount he would receive would be at minimum the same that Brown got.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
The AB deal only took an extra 1.7m for this year. It was an extension for 2013-2017.His base salary remained at 500k for 2012. Wasn't an overall big change of the 2012 cap #.It also kept AB under contract for six seasons, while only 8 million is guaranteed.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
But Wallace rejected that offer. What is the point in leaving an offer on the table that's already been refused? You and Touchdown are trying very hard to paint the Steelers organization in a bad light. Football is a business and both sides are doing what they think is best in their best interest. The Steelers have every right to break off talks and Wallace has every right to hold out. Right now it is a stalemate and we'll see what happens. No need to pick sides...
Touchdown There
Footballguy
Never happened. See post #282. I have no issue with the Steelers or the way they have handled this. The problem is with the homers. You guys think the Steelers management are a bunch of geniuses. They are broke (cap wise) and did the only thing they could do, because they do not have any money to spend. It is a bad situation for everyone and this will go down as a classic example of parity in the league.If they do not trade Wallace, it will be the first bad move the Steelers have made. They need to clear the negative karma from the situation and pick up a draft pick. I think Wallace will be moved before the trade deadline, but they are going to play hardball first to see if he caves.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Its been my opinion all along that the Steelers made a mistake and I've had this stance since March when the Steelers didn't extend Wallace and made him a RFA. I certainly didn't shock me that he didn't cave and sign the tender and I don't think he will now or until he absolutely has to.I'm sorry but I do not need you give me persmission to choose sides about this topic. Might want to check your ego while I make the statement that I hold my own opinion with or without your consent. I never understood the stance that the Steelers have taken with the Wallace extension.I don't think the Steelers haven't acted logically. I felt they should have extended him long before he hit RFA.This caught my attention back in March, look at those pre-draft Wallace threads. I don't care about things unless it might affect to my fantasy team, I own Sanders so I paid attention to this story. I wondered what the the Steelers trying to pull with Wallace.My opinion is they didn't play this wisely and it looks like a mess that will last for a long time into the season.
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
This comes from a site that tracks the Steelers' salary cap status (and only the Steelers) on a regular basis. The number you posted not only includes Wallace's tender, but ignores the Max Starks signing, DeCastro signing his rookie deal, Antonio Brown's change in cap hit, and the $4.5 million in veteran cap credits the Steelers have unused. In short, it's a garbage number.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
apalmer
Footballguy
Yeah, they should have definitely used that little known "Unilateral Right to Extend a Contract Whether The Player Agrees Or Not" provision of the CBA. Or did you mean the "Pay Him Whatever He Wants" provision?
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
I'm sure they wanted to do just that - they did it with Brown. They've tried to negotiate with him prior to camp as well. The bottom line is that Wallace is all about the bucks, and he wants more than the Steelers feel he's worth. Poor business would have been to just give him whatever he demanded. Everyone and their grandmother wants Calvin Johnson on their team in the subscriber contest, but you have to fit a full team under the cap, and at some point, he becomes cost-prohibitive. It's your job to figure out what that # is. Same with the Steelers, if they think Wallace is cost-prohibitive at the money he's holding out for, it's not going to work for them. Plain and simple.Now, he's holding out, and the Steelers don't negotiate or trade hold-outs. They're a hard-line organization that has a certain way of doing things. Sometimes it leads to tough situations, but that's a given in the business of the NFL. You may disagree with the method, but you can't argue with the results.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
The guys we are dealing with Bracie are hard core Steelers fans. They do not have the ability to step back and look at this logically, because they cover themselves in Steelers gear on football Sundays. It is part of who they are and because the Steelers are part of them, they do not "take kindly" to any opinion that is not pro-Steelers. It is about the organization over all else, even if that means one guy gets the short straw.Don't boggle you mind over why the Steelers did what they did. The answer is so very simple: it was the only option they had.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
I was responding to your statement that the Steelers were screwing Wallace. I can't speak for other Steelers fan but I don't think that management never makes mistakes but I do think they know a whole lot more about their team and cap management than anyone posting on FBGs.
No one is going to offer the Steelers a first round pick for Wallace and they'll likely get a third round pick if they don't trade him. So the best they can get by trading him is maybe a second round pick and they'll also lose Wallace's service for as many game as he plays this season, give up the option to franchise him in 2013 and also set a precedent for players that decide to hold out in the future. I am just not seeing much of an upside in trading Wallace at this point.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
Bear in mind that this is coming from a guy that, when I had the unmitigated temerity to wade into the ***official*** Browns thread a few years back to suggest that if the rumors of Miami offering 2 second round picks for Derek Anderson were true that the Browns should pull the trigger, accused me of crapping in their thread, baiting Browns fans, etc. When I calmly tried to explain that drafting Brady Quinn meant they had 2 "starters" on their team and that everyone would be well-served by dealing Anderson, whom I called a "flawed quarterback", at a premium and handing the reins to Quinn, he said that I was a moron for suggesting it and that clearly their best strategy for the future was to roster both guys.Take from this what you will.um, okay...
Godsbrother
Footballguy
The Steelers identified Mike Wallace as the #1 priority this offseason. They were negotiating and couldn't come to an agreement.
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
Um, yeah.
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
Yeah, I remember you saying that just hours before they gave Brown a $42,000,000 extension.
Just stop responding and let this thread die. I keep checking it thinking there might be news in here.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
Players will be cut. They were $30 million over the cap at one point this off-season and are now over $5M under. Hampton, Foote, Harrison, and Mendenhall are all likely to be cut this offseason - that alone puts them under the cap. 2013 is not a concern right now.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
There won't be any news unless/until Wallace reports to camp, that much has already been said. I just want to make sure that anyone looking for a real evaluation of the situation gets it from those of us who follow the team rather than those who have an agenda of baiting Steelers fans.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
The reason the Mike Wallace extension is interesting is because it isn't simple.The Wallace extension isn't just tied into the greater cap number for the team, his situation was directly tied into the emmergence of AB and Sanders waiting in the wings, three young WRs. The first and best was Wallace and his contract was coming up and the Steelers would have to make a decision and how they handled Wallace would effect the contracts of AB and Sanders. They got three solid years out of Wallace where he clearly out-performed his contract. It makes sense and would be fair for him to want an extension the Steelers knew it and it was widly reported and people who own Sanders or AB were interested and followed this back when those reports first came out.Wallace > Antonio Brown.He has already produced at a higher rate longer than AB.AB inked an extension and the Steelers got a bargain, err in terms of finances but it probably will cost them Mike Wallace.My opinion is they should have handled this differently and acted aggressively a long time before Wallace became a RFA before extending Brown.They have Brown and they have their cap space but they don't have Wallace.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
You can't cut guys that do not have a contract. The only guy on your list that will actually have a contract adding to the 2013 numbers is Harrison and he would be a big loss. The other three guys you mentioned are free agents, and they have no numbers adding to the projected over-budget.The 2013 numbers are relevant to Mike Wallace, whether or not you want to look at them. This is a Mike Wallace thread.
matttyl
Footballguy
Are you saying they will all be cut THIS (2012) offseason? That would be news if Mendy is released before week 1.
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
Your other link said $16M, so take those numbers with a grain of salt. The four guys I referenced earlier as being unlikely to be with the team next year, as they're older and already have replacements being groomed, would take $21M off the cap alone. Other guys will be cut, contracts can be restructured, etc. Not remotely worried about 2013, there won't be any more of a purge than there was this year. Out with the old, in with the new. Everyone they cut this offseason to the best of my knowledge either retired or is currently without a team.ETA : Your link refers to THIS season, not next year. The article was published in February. The Steelers have already eradicated that deficit and are now under the cap. They'll probably be further under this coming offseason.
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Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
That's actually a legitimate point - however, Harrison counts as a ~$10M hit, so cutting him would drastically reduce that deficit alone, the others are far less expensive (~$3M per) and will be replaced with less expensive options. In any case, they'll be a lot further under the cap than they were this offseason.
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
No, no - I'm talking next offseason.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
I have made legitimate points in 9 pages of this thread. This is a math issue and no one is doing the math.
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
I have no problem whatsoever acknowledging when someone brings something of value to the thread, no matter who it is. However, 95% of your posts serve only to prove that you're "right," not to impart any kind of legitimate information. The Steelers homers have, by and large, followed this team for decades and can actually provide insight into how they typically do business and what the likely outcome of this situation might be. You're only concerned with playing Nostradamus.A few weeks ago, you were belching this same "the Steelers are broke" rhetoric, and they re-upped a receiver for $42M. Prior to that, they reportedly offered Wallace $50M. The team isn't "broke", there are countless ways to massage the cap to get young stars re-signed if need be. This is an issue of the team and the player having a significantly disparate estimation of the player's worth. That's what everyone has been trying to tell you, but you only seem concerned with harping on how Wallace is getting screwed. Short of paying Wallace whatever he wants to sign or cutting him outright so that he can test the open market, you're going to see it as Wallace getting the shaft. However, the Steelers have no motivation to do either. Blame the way the free agency rules were negotiated, don't blame a team for not making a foolish business decision in order to placate one individual.And certainly don't bash Steelers fans for lauding the front office for not making a foolish business decision. The continued success of the team and keeping as much of their successful core together is infinitely more important than indulging the wishes of one individual. That much should be obvious, although it doesn't seem so to you. You might need to go re-watch the end of "Star Trek II : The Wrath of Khan."
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
JoeSteeler
Footballguy
Touchdown There
Footballguy
Is this not the game we play? Pick up Sanders in every league you can.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
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