Steelers Broke and 4-6, Bengals Division Champs (2 Viewers)

[Kenny Powers]

I wish we could have notes to certain threads, because I just keep wasting time in here

 

[[icon]]

At this point I hope the steelers bench his ### when he comes back, then franchise him next year just to piss him off.

 

[steelcityman]

Not to mention that 3.73M number is not even accurate. They're roughly $5.4-$5.5M under after signing DeCastro, Starks, and Brown and including their unused veteran cap credits - all numbers you see online include the unsigned RFA tag on Wallace. If they were to sign him, trade him, or cut him, that would no longer be relevant. If he signs the tender, that leaves them roughly $2.7M under the cap. But let's not let facts obscure anything here.

You are disputing a national publication and want us all to just go with the number you post?

since when are national publications in this country undisputable references? Journalism in America is at an all time low. I can find more accurate info asking a taxi driver or street cleaner.One, the steelers(front offices) dont care if wallace ever puts on a steeler uniform again. players want him, but the rooney's dont give a piss.two, if he agrees to a number they offer, they have the money, so save the broke lines(you said them enough already) three, the steelers need another WR, cant go into a season with 3 WRs, so they will look for WRs being cut in other camps. I say Plax is best option right now.four, steelers will still make playoffs.five, your fav team wants to be just like the steelers...best franchise in sport.

 

[Amused to Death]

The bottom line is that Wallace is all about the bucks, and he wants more than the Steelers feel he's worth.

THE STEELERS ARE BROKE

Yeah, I remember you saying that just hours before they gave Brown a $42,000,000 extension.

Just stop responding and let this thread die. I keep checking it thinking there might be news in here.

I hope someone starts a new thread when there's new development because I'm not wasting any more time in this one.Shark Pool has a tinge of yellow lately.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I hope someone starts a new thread when there's new development because I'm not wasting any more time in this one.Shark Pool has a tinge of yellow lately.

I consider myself that chemical that turns urine purple in the Pool.

 

[Touchdown There]

At this point I hope the steelers bench his ### when he comes back, then franchise him next year just to piss him off.

Why are you hating on Wallace?

 

[Tau837]

The guys we are dealing with Bracie are hard core Steelers fans.

I've been reading this thread throughout, and I'm a Chargers fan. I think for the most part, the Steelers homers in this thread have been posting good information. I think you and to a lesser extent Bracie have been in here to As an unbiased reader in this thread, I trust the posts (e.g., on salary cap info) from the Steelers homers a lot more than the posts from you and Bracie.

 

[Touchdown There]

ESPN reported today that the Steelers are only 2.5MM under the cap. Weird how close that is to 2.7MM. Just enough to pay Wallace the minimum.

 

[Touchdown There]

The guys we are dealing with Bracie are hard core Steelers fans.

I've been reading this thread throughout, and I'm a Chargers fan. I think for the most part, the Steelers homers in this thread have been posting good information. I think you and to a lesser extent Bracie have been in here to As an unbiased reader in this thread, I trust the posts (e.g., on salary cap info) from the Steelers homers a lot more than the posts from you and Bracie.

You are just as bad with AJ Smith.

 

[cobalt_27]

That's actually a legitimate point.

I have made legitimate points in 9 pages of this thread. This is a math issue and no one is doing the math.

Point to one. Page or point, your choice.

 

[Touchdown There]

That's actually a legitimate point.

I have made legitimate points in 9 pages of this thread. This is a math issue and no one is doing the math.

Point to one. Page or point, your choice.

Let me recalibrate you. Every post in the entire thread. /recalibration

 

[Touchdown There]

That's actually a legitimate point.

I have made legitimate points in 9 pages of this thread. This is a math issue and no one is doing the math.

Point to one. Page or point, your choice.

Let me recalibrate you. Every post in the entire thread. /recalibration

And I am going to make this very clear to you cobalt. The stunt you pulled with the recalibration is bordering on forum stalking. I do not care at all if you agree with me in this thread. Don't carry it to other threads. If it continues, we are going to have a very public exchange for a very long time.

 

[Cookiemonster]

That's actually a legitimate point.

I have made legitimate points in 9 pages of this thread. This is a math issue and no one is doing the math.

Point to one. Page or point, your choice.

Let me recalibrate you. Every post in the entire thread. /recalibration

And I am going to make this very clear to you cobalt. The stunt you pulled with the recalibration is bordering on forum stalking. I do not care at all if you agree with me in this thread. Don't carry it to other threads. If it continues, we are going to have a very public exchange for a very long time.

Whoda thunk it? Troll and internet tough guy. Mommy needs to take away the keyboard for a week.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

this thread helps me understand why people watch bum fight vids.

 

[Touchdown There]

Whoda thunk it? Troll and internet tough guy. Mommy needs to take away the keyboard for a week.

Favorite NFL team in your profile? STEELERSI can take all the heat from the pack. Bring it on hyenas.

 

[Touchdown There]

this thread helps me understand why people watch bum fight vids.

Homer.

 

[cobalt_27]

That's actually a legitimate point.

I have made legitimate points in 9 pages of this thread. This is a math issue and no one is doing the math.

Point to one. Page or point, your choice.

Let me recalibrate you. Every post in the entire thread. /recalibration

And I am going to make this very clear to you cobalt. The stunt you pulled with the recalibration is bordering on forum stalking. I do not care at all if you agree with me in this thread. Don't carry it to other threads. If it continues, we are going to have a very public exchange for a very long time.

Wat? Alice, take a freaking Xanax.

 

[Tau837]

The guys we are dealing with Bracie are hard core Steelers fans.

I've been reading this thread throughout, and I'm a Chargers fan. I think for the most part, the Steelers homers in this thread have been posting good information. I think you and to a lesser extent Bracie have been in here to As an unbiased reader in this thread, I trust the posts (e.g., on salary cap info) from the Steelers homers a lot more than the posts from you and Bracie.

You are just as bad with AJ Smith.

I'm not sure what you mean... I assume you are saying Steelers fans blindly defend the Steelers, and as a Chargers fan I do the same by blindly defending Smith.If so, this is a good example that shows that you regularly either post stuff that you have no clue about or post stuff to intentionally provoke. Here are my last 5 posts in this forum that commented on A.J. Smith's performance (as opposed to his tendencies, like posting to say he won't trade for Wallace because it is not his MO):

I agree Smith handled the VJax situation poorly.

I personally think Smith's performance also warrants getting fired, but I don't know as much about how easy it would be to find a quality replacement.

As for Smith, I don't care as much about his hubris as about his personnel decisions. He needs to improve his drafting significantly over the results of the past few seasons.

Not sure how to determine who is more to blame for the 2010 and 2011 seasons. It's easier to point to Norv, but my feeling is that it's very close and could be Smith.

I voted under the assumption that the team fails to make the playoffs. I voted yes to fire both of them.Everyone tends to blame Turner, but around here it is rare that Smith gets blamed for anything other than the VJax situation last year. I assume it was my post on the deterioration of talent that you referred to in the OP. I think A.J. deserves significant blame here... plus, he hired Norv, so if Norv is to be fired, that reflects negatively on Smith.

 

[Touchdown There]

The guys we are dealing with Bracie are hard core Steelers fans.

I've been reading this thread throughout, and I'm a Chargers fan. I think for the most part, the Steelers homers in this thread have been posting good information. I think you and to a lesser extent Bracie have been in here to As an unbiased reader in this thread, I trust the posts (e.g., on salary cap info) from the Steelers homers a lot more than the posts from you and Bracie.

You are just as bad with AJ Smith.

I'm not sure what you mean... I assume you are saying Steelers fans blindly defend the Steelers, and as a Chargers fan I do the same by blindly defending Smith.If so, this is a good example that shows that you regularly either post stuff that you have no clue about or post stuff to intentionally provoke. Here are my last 5 posts in this forum that commented on A.J. Smith's performance (as opposed to his tendencies, like posting to say he won't trade for Wallace because it is not his MO):

I agree Smith handled the VJax situation poorly.

I personally think Smith's performance also warrants getting fired, but I don't know as much about how easy it would be to find a quality replacement.

As for Smith, I don't care as much about his hubris as about his personnel decisions. He needs to improve his drafting significantly over the results of the past few seasons.

Not sure how to determine who is more to blame for the 2010 and 2011 seasons. It's easier to point to Norv, but my feeling is that it's very close and could be Smith.

I voted under the assumption that the team fails to make the playoffs. I voted yes to fire both of them.

Everyone tends to blame Turner, but around here it is rare that Smith gets blamed for anything other than the VJax situation last year. I assume it was my post on the deterioration of talent that you referred to in the OP. I think A.J. deserves significant blame here... plus, he hired Norv, so if Norv is to be fired, that reflects negatively on Smith.

You took the same stance in 2010 with the AJ Smith vs Vjax situation. Link. Since then you refined your position, but I remember it very clearly. In this thread you state:

IMO there is no reason to offer a player more than the standard tender.

I know exactly what I am talking about. There are "organization guys" who do not care when players get hosed. Just like the Vjax situation was lose-lose, the Steelers are going to lose here.

 

[Touchdown There]

Since the subtitle of this thread is "Vjax part II?", discussing the situation in 2010 is relevant IMO. There were A LOT of organization guys that supported AJ at the time. I commend you, Just Win Baby, on your flip-flop and actually saying that AJ deserves a lot of blame for that situation. You are absolutely correct in post-2010 discussions. There was even a thread titled "Did the Chargers Win With the Way they Handled Vjax" or something like that. It took time for the season to play out and for the Chargers to miss the playoffs in order for there to be logical discussion on the matter. However, in the preseason it was basically people on Vincent Jackson's side and then the side for Chargers management.

Eerily similar to what is happening right now. The only difference is that the Chargers had the money to pay Vjax and AJ was a di*k when he reduced Jackson's tender. The Steelers are doing a much better job of hosing Wallace under the radar.

 

[Tau837]

You took the same stance in 2010 with the AJ Smith vs Vjax situation. Link. Since then you refined your position, but I remember it very clearly. In this thread you state:

IMO there is no reason to offer a player more than the standard tender.

I know exactly what I am talking about. There are "organization guys" who do not care when players get hosed. Just like the Vjax situation was lose-lose, the Steelers are going to lose here.

Creative pruning of my post there. Here is the full paragraph:

IMO it is misleading to say his original tender amount was the lowest it could be. It was the standard amount for the tender he was given, which was the highest tender. IMO there is no reason to offer a player more than the standard tender. If a team thinks a player is worth paying more, they would typically work out a contract extension. I don't think they would typically offer him a tender amount higher than the standard amount. Can you cite a single instance where a team offered more than the standard tender amount when tendering a player (as opposed to negotiating a contract extension)?

I was quite clearly responding to the notion that they should have offered him more than the standard amount for a maximum tender. I pointed out that if the team felt the player was worth more, they would work out a contract extension. The Chargers didn't have him in their long term plans at the price he was demanding, so it did not make sense for them to pay him what he wanted. As a fan of the Chargers, I didn't want them to pay him more than what he was worth. Does that make me an "organization guy"? If so, so be it.When I say A.J. Smith handled it poorly, I am referring to reducing the tender and playing hardball. I'm not sure playing hardball with the tender and being a jerk about it really furthers the best interests of the team.

I haven't "flip flopped" on my thinking that they should have paid Jackson what he wanted. I do think it would have been better had the Chargers traded Jackson in the 2010 offseason/preseason. But it isn't clear that there was a team willing to pay the Chargers something of sufficient value while also giving Jackson the money he wanted.

Sounds familiar. The Steelers have handled it more professionally, at least publicly, and I think that is a good thing. But I also think it is a good thing for teams to stick to their view of what players are worth and not overpay players. I think by and large the most successful NFL franchises follow that philosophy.

The Chargers "lost" in the VJax situation because they missed the playoffs by one game, and they played several close games early where a normally healthy and in shape Jackson could have made the difference. But it's also true that the Chargers offense suffered an incredible number of injuries to Gates and their first 4 WRs (not including Jackson) that season, yet still were second in passing yards. I think Jackson could have made some key plays to win another game or two, but Smith could not have foreseen how historically bad the special teams would be, nor how many injuries the offense would suffer, so to some degree the outcome isn't on him.

I agree the situation was lose-lose for the Chargers and Jackson, as I have posted. And I think the same thing about this situation. But the Steelers would also lose by caving, so it amounts to picking the least of two evils. I think they have done that, and I agree with the choice.

 

[treat88]

I know exactly what I am talking about.

I am 100% sure this is false.

 

[Kenny Powers]

blahhh bla blah ..... blahah a hablakak blah

 

[[icon]]

This is like watching that home school kid screaming at his mom about how much he "loves chocolate AND vanilla"

 

[Dismattle]

hey guys

lets hold off any posts untill we hear some concrete news

please n thank you!

 

[jurb26]

So, I take it all the mods are on vacation? Seriously, WTF is going on in this thread?

 

[cobalt_27]

hey guys lets hold off any posts untill we hear some concrete newsplease n thank you!

Why?

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

ESPN reported today that the Steelers are only 2.5MM under the cap. Weird how close that is to 2.7MM. Just enough to pay Wallace the minimum.

That includes Wallace's tender.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

News on a Pittsburgh Steeler WR pertaining to Mike Wallace's continuing holdout.

On a personal note on the Mike Wallace holdout, the only aspect that interests me is how it might help out this guy since I own him in a long running dynasty league:

My link

With Wallace out, Sanders catching up

... If only because, with the unsigned Mike Wallace still not in camp, Sanders is starting at the “X” position, which usually is manned by the top downfield threat. He also has moved up to No. 2 on quarterback Ben Roethlisberger’s checkdown list, behind the newly rich Antonio Brown.

Be it only an exhibition game, but Sanders is replacing Wallace as a starter for the first time since Wallace’s contract dispute began.

“Unfortunately Mike isn’t here, and we want him here because I feel he’s a great asset to this receiving corps,” Sanders said. “But if he’s not here, it’s an opportunity for me to gain chemistry with Ben and prove that I can make plays out there.”

Sanders has done that at times during his first two seasons. He had a team-high six catches for 81 yards during the Steelers’ 29-23 playoff loss to Denver on Jan. 8.

Go back 21⁄2 years, and it was Sanders — not Brown — who would have been projected to be a starter by now and not just by default. Sanders, from SMU, was a third-round pick, while Brown, from Central Michigan, lasted until the Steelers’ second pick of the sixth round.

Predictably, Sanders’ rookie statistics (28 catches, 376 yards, two touchdowns) eclipsed Brown’s (16 catches, 167 yards, no TDs). But Sanders broke his right foot in the Super Bowl loss to Green Bay, then needed surgery on his left foot during the offseason.

Sanders missed five games to injury before finishing with 22 receptions for 288 yards and two touchdowns last season. With Sanders hurt part of the time and Wallace in a second-half slump, Brown broke through as Roethlisberger’s primary target, finishing with 69 catches for 1,108 yards and two touchdowns.

As a result, Brown, not Wallace or Sanders, signed a $42.5 million contract two weeks ago.

Motivated by his opportunity — and perhaps by the money Brown will make — Sanders is emerging during camp as more than just a complementary receiver. He caught four touchdown passes during practice Saturday, and it is becoming evident Roethlisberger is confident the ball will be caught if he throws it Sanders’ way.

“He’s starting to get comfortable with us, Antonio, Jerricho (Cotchery) and all of us,” Sanders said.

Roethlisberger, 30, is having a strong camp, and, according to Sanders, “Ben is starting to come into his prime.”

“We’re starting to definitely get a lot closer,” Sanders said. “It’s like a girlfriend-boyfriend relationship in some kind of weird way. But that’s how it is — you’ve got to have that chemistry, got to understand each other so you are on the same page.”

Other than the tortured analogy of ahem BF/GF chemistry, it seems Sanders could finally start show some fantasy value.I've said all along that my opinion is the Steelers made the wrong call by not extending Wallace but if it turns into a profitable opportunity benefiting Emmanuel Sanders then that pleases me since my personal interest into the Wallace drama has always been about how it could be an opportunity for Sanders.

I'm not sure what he will do, he does have injury concerns and he won't put up Wallace numbers but he has a shot to finally begin to pay off for those of us who have held onto him while he struggled last year.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

ESPN reported today that the Steelers are only 2.5MM under the cap. Weird how close that is to 2.7MM. Just enough to pay Wallace the minimum.

Again, that includes the 2.7M on the tender. They're over 5 million under the cap if the tender is removed, which it would be if any long-term deal were to be reached. That's what I've been telling you all along.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

ESPN reported today that the Steelers are only 2.5MM under the cap. Weird how close that is to 2.7MM. Just enough to pay Wallace the minimum.

That includes Wallace's tender.

I Hippled it.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

News on a Pittsburgh Steeler WR pertaining to Mike Wallace's continuing holdout.

On a personal note on the Mike Wallace holdout, the only aspect that interests me is how it might help out this guy since I own him in a long running dynasty league:

My link

With Wallace out, Sanders catching up

... If only because, with the unsigned Mike Wallace still not in camp, Sanders is starting at the “X” position, which usually is manned by the top downfield threat. He also has moved up to No. 2 on quarterback Ben Roethlisberger’s checkdown list, behind the newly rich Antonio Brown.

Be it only an exhibition game, but Sanders is replacing Wallace as a starter for the first time since Wallace’s contract dispute began.

“Unfortunately Mike isn’t here, and we want him here because I feel he’s a great asset to this receiving corps,” Sanders said. “But if he’s not here, it’s an opportunity for me to gain chemistry with Ben and prove that I can make plays out there.”

Sanders has done that at times during his first two seasons. He had a team-high six catches for 81 yards during the Steelers’ 29-23 playoff loss to Denver on Jan. 8.

Go back 21⁄2 years, and it was Sanders — not Brown — who would have been projected to be a starter by now and not just by default. Sanders, from SMU, was a third-round pick, while Brown, from Central Michigan, lasted until the Steelers’ second pick of the sixth round.

Predictably, Sanders’ rookie statistics (28 catches, 376 yards, two touchdowns) eclipsed Brown’s (16 catches, 167 yards, no TDs). But Sanders broke his right foot in the Super Bowl loss to Green Bay, then needed surgery on his left foot during the offseason.

Sanders missed five games to injury before finishing with 22 receptions for 288 yards and two touchdowns last season. With Sanders hurt part of the time and Wallace in a second-half slump, Brown broke through as Roethlisberger’s primary target, finishing with 69 catches for 1,108 yards and two touchdowns.

As a result, Brown, not Wallace or Sanders, signed a $42.5 million contract two weeks ago.

Motivated by his opportunity — and perhaps by the money Brown will make — Sanders is emerging during camp as more than just a complementary receiver. He caught four touchdown passes during practice Saturday, and it is becoming evident Roethlisberger is confident the ball will be caught if he throws it Sanders’ way.

“He’s starting to get comfortable with us, Antonio, Jerricho (Cotchery) and all of us,” Sanders said.

Roethlisberger, 30, is having a strong camp, and, according to Sanders, “Ben is starting to come into his prime.”

“We’re starting to definitely get a lot closer,” Sanders said. “It’s like a girlfriend-boyfriend relationship in some kind of weird way. But that’s how it is — you’ve got to have that chemistry, got to understand each other so you are on the same page.”

Other than the tortured analogy of ahem BF/GF chemistry, it seems Sanders could finally start show some fantasy value.I've said all along that my opinion is the Steelers made the wrong call by not extending Wallace but if it turns into a profitable opportunity benefiting Emmanuel Sanders then that pleases me since my personal interest into the Wallace drama has always been about how it could be an opportunity for Sanders.

I'm not sure what he will do, he does have injury concerns and he won't put up Wallace numbers but he has a shot to finally begin to pay off for those of us who have held onto him while he struggled last year.

Sanders clearly doesn't have Wallace's speed (few do) but his hands are superior. He was really coming on in the playoffs a few years back before getting injured in the SB. Since then, Brown blossomed and Sanders hasn't really had a chance to show what he can do. If Wallace continues to hold out and Sanders takes that X spot, he could put up some pretty nice numbers. Definite major fantasy sleeper if this drags on.

 

[Touchdown There]

ESPN reported today that the Steelers are only 2.5MM under the cap. Weird how close that is to 2.7MM. Just enough to pay Wallace the minimum.

That includes Wallace's tender.

How do you know this? Considering he has not signed his tender, why would it be on the books?

 

[Touchdown There]

If a team thinks a player is worth paying more, they would typically work out a contract extension.

Typically, they would. In Vincent Jackson's case, they should have. It leaves a lot of Chargers fans wondering if they could have squeaked out another win or two and get into the playoffs.As for Wallace's, we are looking at less of a management vs player headbutt match. That is why this situation is atypical. The Steelers do not have the funds.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

ESPN reported today that the Steelers are only 2.5MM under the cap. Weird how close that is to 2.7MM. Just enough to pay Wallace the minimum.

That includes Wallace's tender.

How do you know this? Considering he has not signed his tender, why would it be on the books?

Because that is the rule of the NFL CBA. You cannot have a tender out there without being able to pay for it, so that cap space is reserved. This is across the NFL and common knowledge. Wallace counts $2.7M against the cap right now, even though he isn't signed. So Wallace can count $5.2 this season if he signs a longterm deal without the Steelers having to cut/extend anybody else. So if he signs a 5 year deal, with a $20M signing bonus, he can have a base of $1.2 this season, plus count $4M of the signing bonus against this season's cap.

 

[Touchdown There]

ESPN reported today that the Steelers are only 2.5MM under the cap. Weird how close that is to 2.7MM. Just enough to pay Wallace the minimum.

That includes Wallace's tender.

How do you know this? Considering he has not signed his tender, why would it be on the books?

Because that is the rule of the NFL CBA. You cannot have a tender out there without being able to pay for it, so that cap space is reserved. This is across the NFL and common knowledge. Wallace counts $2.7M against the cap right now, even though he isn't signed. So Wallace can count $5.2 this season if he signs a longterm deal without the Steelers having to cut/extend anybody else. So if he signs a 5 year deal, with a $20M signing bonus, he can have a base of $1.2 this season, plus count $4M of the signing bonus against this season's cap.

Good info on the CBA - thanks. As for the long-term deal, if Wallace thought those terms were acceptable he would have signed it a long time ago. He is not looking for a "team friendly" deal. Plus there is the issue of guarantees.

 

[Amused to Death]

So, I take it all the mods are on vacation? Seriously, WTF is going on in this thread?

It's a thread about a Pittsburgh player with lots of Pittsburgh fans. It's my opinion and experience they get a lot more slack. YMMV.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

ESPN reported today that the Steelers are only 2.5MM under the cap. Weird how close that is to 2.7MM. Just enough to pay Wallace the minimum.

That includes Wallace's tender.

How do you know this? Considering he has not signed his tender, why would it be on the books?

Because that is the rule of the NFL CBA. You cannot have a tender out there without being able to pay for it, so that cap space is reserved. This is across the NFL and common knowledge. Wallace counts $2.7M against the cap right now, even though he isn't signed. So Wallace can count $5.2 this season if he signs a longterm deal without the Steelers having to cut/extend anybody else. So if he signs a 5 year deal, with a $20M signing bonus, he can have a base of $1.2 this season, plus count $4M of the signing bonus against this season's cap.

Good info on the CBA - thanks. As for the long-term deal, if Wallace thought those terms were acceptable he would have signed it a long time ago. He is not looking for a "team friendly" deal. Plus there is the issue of guarantees.

The signing bonus is guaranteed money. Yearly salary is not. Given their cap and the information out there, my guess is that they offered him something along the lines of $1M this year, $2M next year, and then $9M per for the next three after that, with a $20M signing bonus. That's $20M guaranteed and with the base salary that low, they'd never cut him before year 3 of the contract. So, best case scenario, he makes $50M over the next five years.. worst case, he's cut after two seasons, makes $23M over the next two years, and then becomes a free agent.Saying he's not looking for a "team friendly deal" is talking out of your ###. There's no way on Earth he's going to put them in a position where they'd need to cut key guys before this season in order to squeeze out a few more dollars, and further, his agent knows the Steelers would never do that.

I wouldn't want them to sign him to a deal for more than what I just outlined regardless of whether they were $1 or $40,000,000 under the cap. $10M per is a lot of money for a receiver on a team that wants to be a run-first club. If he thinks he can get more elsewhere, be my guest - I'd rather use that money on several other parts. Wallace isn't THAT good. Of course, he needs to realize that just because Washington constantly overspends on free agents and Tampa had a monster cap deficit they HAD to spend doesn't mean teams are going to be doling out enormous contracts to receivers going forward. He may end up signing a fairly similar deal elsewhere and fading into obscurity on a team that never wins anything.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

So, I take it all the mods are on vacation? Seriously, WTF is going on in this thread?

It's a thread about a Pittsburgh player with lots of Pittsburgh fans. It's my opinion and experience they get a lot more slack. YMMV.

There's one guy here intentionally baiting Steelers fans and getting the exact response he wants. Given that there's no pissing in the Pool, who exactly is being given slack here?

 

[Evilgrin 72]

What this is ultimately going to boil down to for Wallace is whether he wants to :

A) Sign for 90-95% of what "fair market value" might be in the context of deals given out this offseason and stay with a franchise that wins consistently, maintain his current residence, etc.

or

B) Hold out for every single last nickel he can get and play for whatever team is willing to give him the most money, no matter who that might be.

If A, he'll have a long-term deal done in fairly short order and play for Pittsburgh into his 30s. If B, he has no future with this team and will end up in Jacksonville or with the Jets, or whatever team is desperate for a deep threat and willing to shell out the mega-bucks deal the Steelers will likely never offer to a WR.

Hines Ward chose A. I have a feeling Wallace is all about the loot and will choose B.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

What this is ultimately going to boil down to for Wallace is whether he wants to :

A) Sign for 90-95% of what "fair market value" might be in the context of deals given out this offseason and stay with a franchise that wins consistently, maintain his current residence, etc.

or

B) Hold out for every single last nickel he can get and play for whatever team is willing to give him the most money, no matter who that might be.

If A, he'll have a long-term deal done in fairly short order and play for Pittsburgh into his 30s. If B, he has no future with this team and will end up in Jacksonville or with the Jets, or whatever team is desperate for a deep threat and willing to shell out the mega-bucks deal the Steelers will likely never offer to a WR.

Hines Ward chose A. I have a feeling Wallace is all about the loot and will choose B.

EG it takes two to tango.The way I read it is that Wallace had a payday coming and I think he should have been paid.

The Steelers played the muscle card.

Impasse.

You see it he asked for too much and he's not worth it.

I see he asked for money and the Steelers broke off talks.

Two views, two sides. Two streams meeting can form a calm in rapids and in this case it has lead to a quiet impasse that eventually will work itself out and the key word is 'eventally' which likely will be late in the season.

 

[Gawain]

Since this became messy on July 25th, Wallace's ADP has fallen a full round (3.11 to 4.11) and he has fallen from WR 10/11 to WR 18. THe following WR's have passed him (Cruz, Nicks, Nelson, Bryant, Smith Colston, Thomas, Lloyd).

Surprisingly, Antonio Brown has only risen 3 or 4 ADP slots since this Mike Wallace situation got messier.

 

[apalmer]

Since this became messy on July 25th, Wallace's ADP has fallen a full round (3.11 to 4.11) and he has fallen from WR 10/11 to WR 18. THe following WR's have passed him (Cruz, Nicks, Nelson, Bryant, Smith Colston, Thomas, Lloyd).Surprisingly, Antonio Brown has only risen 3 or 4 ADP slots since this Mike Wallace situation got messier.

I would think Sanders is the one who would show a rise in ADP rather than Brown.

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

ESPN's John Clayton & Jamison Hensley:

Clayton: The Steelers could still get a long-term deal done with holdout wide receiver Mike Wallace. I can't see the Steelers letting Wallace hit the free-agent market next year. He's too valuable.

My thoughts: I wasn't among those who thought the Steelers chose Antonio Brown over Wallace. Brown had a great second half of last season, but his production was helped by defenses keeping tabs on Wallace. The Steelers need both Brown and Wallace.

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=afcnorth&id=52207

 

[Godsbrother]

EG it takes two to tango.

The way I read it is that Wallace had a payday coming and I think he should have been paid.

The Steelers played the muscle card.

Impasse.

You see it he asked for too much and he's not worth it.

I see he asked for money and the Steelers broke off talks.

Two views, two sides. Two streams meeting can form a calm in rapids and in this case it has lead to a quiet impasse that eventually will work itself out and the key word is 'eventally' which likely will be late in the season.

The two sides had been negotiating all spring. The Steelers didn't break off talks until camp opened and Wallace began his holdout. This has been a long-standing policy with the club since the Franco Harris days. They do this for two reasons: To help expedite a deal and to also discourage other players from holding out. Wallace and his agent were well aware of this policy and I would be willing to bet the Steelers reiterated it more than once during the negotiating process as the deadline was approaching. Wallace chose to hold out knowing it would end talks, which is well within his rights to do so. His reasons could be many: injury concerns, wants to force a trade, hurt feelings, hates training camp, etc. We don't really know why because to his credit he is not saying.

I don't fault Wallace for doing what he feels is in his best interest nor do I fault the Steelers for doing what they feel is best for the team.

The one thing I do know is if Wallace wants guaranteed money THIS season he is going to need to sign his RFA tender before the start of the season so that negotiations can resume (another long standing policy of the Steelers is they will not negotiate contracts during the season). If he doesn't then I don't see any reason why he would report before Week 10. He would lose $1.7 million for missing 10 games but if he goes down this road I am sure he would be prepared for it.

There has been speculation the Steelers may sign Burress but even if they are interested they won't do it until after Week 1 so the conract is not guaranteed and by that point they will know for certain where they stand with Wallace.

That's my anyway.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

What this is ultimately going to boil down to for Wallace is whether he wants to :

A) Sign for 90-95% of what "fair market value" might be in the context of deals given out this offseason and stay with a franchise that wins consistently, maintain his current residence, etc.

or

B) Hold out for every single last nickel he can get and play for whatever team is willing to give him the most money, no matter who that might be.

If A, he'll have a long-term deal done in fairly short order and play for Pittsburgh into his 30s. If B, he has no future with this team and will end up in Jacksonville or with the Jets, or whatever team is desperate for a deep threat and willing to shell out the mega-bucks deal the Steelers will likely never offer to a WR.

Hines Ward chose A. I have a feeling Wallace is all about the loot and will choose B.

EG it takes two to tango.The way I read it is that Wallace had a payday coming and I think he should have been paid.

The Steelers played the muscle card.

Impasse.

You see it he asked for too much and he's not worth it.

I see he asked for money and the Steelers broke off talks.

Two views, two sides. Two streams meeting can form a calm in rapids and in this case it has lead to a quiet impasse that eventually will work itself out and the key word is 'eventally' which likely will be late in the season.

It's not a matter of asking for whether I think it's "too much" or not, he's asking for more than the Steelers are willing to pay a wideout. He's eventually going to have to choose between playing for slightly less than he could probably get on the open market or forcing his way out of Pittsburgh and getting every penny he can get elsewhere. He has that option, but based on the free agency rules, if he chooses the latter path, he's going to have to wait at least one year and probably two before he can get that mega-deal. That's the reason these rules are in effect, to keep more players with their teams and discourage a highest bidder scenario on every player. The NFL is far from the only sport with such safeguards in place.

 

[craxie]

What this is ultimately going to boil down to for Wallace is whether he wants to :A) Sign for 90-95% of what "fair market value" might be in the context of deals given out this offseason and stay with a franchise that wins consistently, maintain his current residence, etc.orB) Hold out for every single last nickel he can get and play for whatever team is willing to give him the most money, no matter who that might be.

C) Both sides go for the 'win-win' and negotiate a one-year contract at some value higher than the tenderWallace gets more money but preserves his ability to get a big deal next year and the Steelers get Wallace's services before Week 10

 

[Sweet Love]

I hope someone starts a new thread when there's new development because I'm not wasting any more time in this one.Shark Pool has a tinge of yellow lately.

I consider myself that chemical that turns urine purple in the Pool.

EG,I deleted my signature about your Chick-Fil-A comment (something about liking it to go down your throat or something like that), and now you throw this out there? "EG and JaMarcus like to make the purple drank together in the Pool". Are you purposely throwing soft balls out there or has living near the beach softened your head?

 

[Gawain]

What this is ultimately going to boil down to for Wallace is whether he wants to :A) Sign for 90-95% of what "fair market value" might be in the context of deals given out this offseason and stay with a franchise that wins consistently, maintain his current residence, etc.orB) Hold out for every single last nickel he can get and play for whatever team is willing to give him the most money, no matter who that might be.

C) Both sides go for the 'win-win' and negotiate a one-year contract at some value higher than the tenderWallace gets more money but preserves his ability to get a big deal next year and the Steelers get Wallace's services before Week 10

He's 26, this is his one shot at a big payday. He signs a 1-year deal and either severely underperforms or gets hurt and the market becomes a lot less. For all football players over the long run, taking a 1-year deal or playing the tender may make sense. But, Wallace only gets one bite of the apple here. While there may be very small risk either of the aforementioned situations arise, for Wallace they would be catastrophic. It makes total sense to me why he would minimize his risk of injury and underperforming in order to line himself up for one big payday. I am sure that Vincent Jackson in perfectly happy with the outcome of his situation.

 

[Tau837]

If a team thinks a player is worth paying more, they would typically work out a contract extension.

Typically, they would. In Vincent Jackson's case, they should have. It leaves a lot of Chargers fans wondering if they could have squeaked out another win or two and get into the playoffs.As for Wallace's, we are looking at less of a management vs player headbutt match. That is why this situation is atypical. The Steelers do not have the funds.

I disagree with the bolded. If they didn't value him as a $55M WR over 5 years, they shouldn't have paid him that.If they did value him there, then obviously it would have been appropriate to work it out in his holdout year so as to get the benefit of his play that season.

But they didn't want him at that price. I think the holdout cost them the playoffs, but it was not foreseeable and also not worth one playoff season to overpay from their point of view.