Super Bowl LVII ****Kansas City vs Philadelphia**** KC 38...PHI 35 Chiefs are World Champions!!! (1 Viewer)

[ChiefD]

ugh, this field. i have really got to watching these guys (Ahman Green and Mike Wahle from the Packers). good thoughts on the games, and this field is simply inexcusable:

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Legit beef with the field. It’s crazy that there was no pass rush by either team all game.

Killed my under. Murdered it.

NFL loves them some high scoring games.

it really is crazy. I mean you look across the entire world at all the rugby and soccer fields out there, and this is the product they have for the most important game of the season? just makes no sense how they can let this happen, like they just throw $800,000 around and no one really monitors or checks it out?

Hard to believe the NFL wasn't aware of the field conditions and how it would impact the game. They are aware of every detail but nobody thought to monitor the playing field?

Call me cynical on that. They wanted a high scoring game and they got it.

Weird. Going into the game, one of the Eagles' advantages was supposed to be their pass rush from the front 4.

The head groundskeeper was from the KC organization, correct?

No. He does not work for the Chiefs nor has he worked for them for years.

He's worked for the NFL for a long time, and only on the Super Bowl fields. And honestly, he is basically a consultant at this point and a figurehead for tradition. He's not doing the work anymore.

 

[ChiefD]

And I know what that article says, but Toma has been about Toma for a looooooong time. I've read his book and he's a bit of an arrogant guy. Unless he's on their payroll as a consultant he's not working on their field and hasn't for a long time.

 

[efactor]

Lakers vs Kings in 2002 was no doubt, especially game 6.

Ah yes - the "tackle" with no whistle.

My dad stopped watching basketball for a long time after that - until the full scandal broke & the NBA cleaned up the refereeing. They still miss way too many travels, but it's better.

As for the NFL favoring some teams, I'm not with you on that at all.

See it every week. Pretty obvious. Watch the 2019 super bowl again. Garoppolo takes shots to the head and no flags. Bosa gets held virtually every play, no flags. Kittle with a small push, OPI called. Terrible

 

[ProstheticRGK]

The field was clearly terrible, but both teams had to play on it. Let's put the tinfoil hats away. "Great googly-moogly" Chiefs sodfather didn't design special turf to slow down Philly's pass rush. The underrated Chiefs O-line played well, and both D-lines had a disadvantage of crappy turf.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda, the Eagles got outcoached in the 2nd Half. Period. Great win by a great team. Philly has nothing to hang their head over, except for the Defensive scheme I have hated all year getting exploited by Reid and Bienemy(sp?).

 

[identikit]

You gotta force some more punts man. Those second half scoring drives are brutal for the defensive morale, offensive rhythm, and overall morale

and fatigue

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

ugh, this field. i have really got to watching these guys (Ahman Green and Mike Wahle from the Packers). good thoughts on the games, and this field is simply inexcusable:

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Legit beef with the field. It’s crazy that there was no pass rush by either team all game.

Killed my under. Murdered it.

NFL loves them some high scoring games.

it really is crazy. I mean you look across the entire world at all the rugby and soccer fields out there, and this is the product they have for the most important game of the season? just makes no sense how they can let this happen, like they just throw $800,000 around and no one really monitors or checks it out?

Hard to believe the NFL wasn't aware of the field conditions and how it would impact the game. They are aware of every detail but nobody thought to monitor the playing field?

Call me cynical on that. They wanted a high scoring game and they got it.

Weird. Going into the game, one of the Eagles' advantages was supposed to be their pass rush from the front 4.

The head groundskeeper was from the KC organization, correct?

No. He does not work for the Chiefs nor has he worked for them for years.

He's worked for the NFL for a long time, and only on the Super Bowl fields. And honestly, he is basically a consultant at this point and a figurehead for tradition. He's not doing the work anymore.

Sorry - *worked for the Chiefs.

And yeah - he does seem arrogant. He said this was the best field he's ever seen? Yikes. Good thing he's retiring.

 

[ChicoCat]

Thinking more and more about it.... I'm fine with the holding penalty. I know it looked a little ticky-tack. I know it was said they didn't call it earlier and Bradbury was hoping to get away with it. I'd imagine it was called because Mahomes threw it towards JuJu. Mahomes looked like he knew right away it was a penalty. If the play had been on the other side of the field...it wouldn't have been called.

That's what Greats do.

 

[Da Guru]

If you let them play for 58 minutes, you have to let them play for the last 2.

All I need to see now is a video complication of all of those alleged non-calls and I’ll be square on your side of this debate.

It’s a strong allegation - should be easy to prove if it went down as folks are asserting.

Well, its probably too early for that but here is the one that was Not called that was mentioned earlier. This seems more egregious than the contact made on the 3rd down play-he pulls his arm and twists his body as the ball is getting to him. There were others that I recall on both teams-nothing insane, just some contact. And to be clear that is fine-I prefer to let them play. I thought they called a good game for most of the game, just dropped the ball at the end. You're free to disagree.

I haven't seen this mentioned, but I fully expect that the Chiefs coaches and players blasted the ref(s) for not calling that. Which could have resulted in the ref that made the final call being specifically more attuned to watching for it on that final call.

Also, the fact that they didn't call it on that previous play is not a good thing. That killed a KC drive. It was a BS non-call. Using that as an attempted justification that the final call shouldn't have been made doesn't make sense, since it amounts to an obvious missed call.

This is exactly right. I am sure when the ref's go over the game, this play will not go down as 'letting them play', but more as an obvious mistake that should be caught 100 out of 100 times. That play was a big wiff by the refs.

.It was.

I would venture to say the refs could probably call offensive or defensive holding or PI on 75% or more of the plays. They do a good job for the most part. Should they review plays for possible penalties? If so there would be 20 more reviews a game because the coaches would probably be correct.

And that's the point exactly. If the refs could call OPI, DPI, or holding on 75% of the plays as you say, ask yourself why they made 0 holding calls, 0 DPI calls, and 1 OPI call in the entire game before that play. It wasn't an isolated miss. It was an approach to not call grabbing and stuff that regularly happens on every play.

They changed the approach they had taken for 58 minutes and made a call that ended the Super Bowl. Disappointing, but whatever.

Was thre call correct? Probably. Was it not called all game ? Probably.

If it happens in the first quarter nobody says anything. That call decided the game though so it is tough.

NFL Rules committee needs to take a look at offensive players pushing the QB or RB from behind.

See it all the time but the Eagles just lined up like a rugby scrum behind Hurts on the short yardage plays.

Yes, a team is good at it so let's ban it.

There's an entire thread on it here.

Not about "one" team. Most all teams are doing it now.

They talked about it on the NFL Network quite a bit yesterday.

 

[Godsbrother]

Weird that people feel cheated by a legitimate holding play being called a penalty.

What a bizzaro world we live in.

To each his own I guess, I think it is odd not to feel cheated by the way that ended. Being satisfied with such a great game ending on a questionable call seems odd. I don't like either team, but since one of them had to win I was rooting for KC all the way. Would have liked to see a great game like that play out, rather than the lame last 2 minutes. Was it a penalty, yep, could juju have caught that ball, nope, no effing way imho. Others see it differently and that's fine, reasonable minds can disagree.

Agreed. I’ve never heard so many in favor of ticky tacky penalties suddenly getting called only in the last couple minutes of a game but they clearly are ready to die on that hill as it seems like a broken record in here.

That play goes uncalled many time, who wouldn’t want to see an exciting finish?

I think most people would have preferred it not to be called, but understand the ref's decision. I think people have an issue when fans come in here and say it was the worse call in SB history. It was a little ticky tacky, but also justified. There have been so much worse calls and non-calls. The 3rd down non-call PI in the first half was way more disappointing then the defensive hold at the end of the game.

Agreed, I am not one of "the worst sb calls guys" and haven't read any prior pages. Just responding to the one post and think it is weird to diss those of us who would have preferred the flag stay in the pocket so we could see how it plays out.

Sorry I wasn't trying to diss anyone that had a different opinion. I was just saying it was weird to be upset about the refs calling a legitimate penalty that occurred on the play.

I understand being upset when a referee screws up but in this case they called the penalty that should have been called. Even the player admitted he was holding.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

If it happens in the first quarter nobody says anything. That call decided the game though so it is tough.

See, I don’t understand why that makes it tough. To me, that makes it 100% normal. If it’s called in the first quarter then it should be called in the fourth quarter. The game situation should never, ever dictate how an official officiates the rules.

 

[Dr_Zaius]

If it happens in the first quarter nobody says anything. That call decided the game though so it is tough.

See, I don’t understand why that makes it tough. To me, that makes it 100% normal. If it’s called in the first quarter then it should be called in the fourth quarter. The game situation should never, ever dictate how an official officiates the rules.

I agree that I've never been partial to the swallow the whistles late in the game argument. That said, I still didn't like the call. Not to beat a dead horse, but I think the divide that you have here is that if you Zaprudered the whole game and ranked every potential holding call, where would the one that was flagged fall? I can't imagine it's even in the top 10, and that's what rankles some people. It's like being pulled over going 71 in a 65. Were you speeding? Of course. But if you know there were other people around you going 75 and 80 earlier, it's easy to feel put out. I think where people feel differently is that if you're only going to sporadically enforce something, how egregious do the infractions need to be? Is anything technically illegal game, or should you at least try to only punish stuff more towards the egregious end? Different people are going to have different intuitions on that. Just my two cents

 

[Amused to Death]

It's like being pulled over going 71 in a 65. Were you speeding? Of course. But if you know there were other people around you going 75 and 80 earlier, it's easy to feel put out. I think where people feel differently is that if you're only going to sporadically enforce something, how egregious do the infractions need to be?

The speeding is a great analogy. We all speed and we know it, but at what point can you expect to get a ticket. And as Bradberry said in his post game interview, yeah he grabbed the jersey but from what he experienced and saw during the playoffs, the refs were not consistent in making that call. This time they did.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Seriously one of the worst endings of a Super Bowl, ever.

One of the best SBs ever and the most anti-climactic ending I've ever seen for how good the game was.

And it was a ref who decided the game, which is unconscionable.

We were set up for a brilliant, nail biting finish and...public fart instead.

Such a terrible call.

these type of posts are strange....."set up for a brilliant nail biting finish"...?....it was tied with 8 seconds left.....lol

just because you didn't get the ending YOU wanted with PHI getting the ball back and more time doesn't mean it wasn't brilliant or nail biting.....for KC fans it was brilliant....and until that ball went through the posts it was nail biting...

 

[Stinkin Ref]

So if the holding call wasn't called, what would be the likely outcome?

Someone smarter than me should be able to 'what if' this...

Impossible to predict. Eagles would have gotten ball back with plenty of time to tie it....and given no punting and the way the game had gone it's hard to imagine they wouldn't have gotten in a position to tie it and go to OT. That said, Mahomes was a hot knife through butter in that second half and KC would have still had the advantage going into OT.


And enough about the hold. Again, technically correct...but far too soft to be made that late in any game, let alone what was a very good Super Bowl. he didn't impede the WR with it, and it certainly didn't make the difference on complete/incomplete

respectfully disagree with most of this......you and many others are basically questioning the integrity of the ref's by saying "they need to not make a call based on the time left in the game", etc......

you know that you really don't want that right.....?

you don't want them factoring in things like that....you really don't.....

he did impede him and it certainly could have made a difference in a catch/no catch....who knows if he would been able to make the catch or not.....

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Other I’ll say about that ending: unless it’s my team, I always hate when an exciting game comes down to a team running the clock down for a last second FG. So anticlimactic

kinda like a long drive ending in a one inch push the QB across the line sneak....

 

[Stinkin Ref]

uncatchable and not a PI

hold is a hold

Stop.

Not a hold on any level.

Terrible way to decide what had been a great game.

Ref's Bank account needs to be audited.

didn’t decide anything

It decided everything. Pretty sure you understand that but don't care for whatever reason.

as a raider fan i understand it all, they kicks the field goal and are up and have to defend. the issue was he held him

Except, you know that was a terrible call and are pretending it wasn't for some reason.

Any football fan should be outraged by that call.

It wasn’t a terrible. It was a soft call that I prefer not be called, but it appeared to be a defensive holding under the way the rule is written.

It was a hold. But we all know that some penalties don't get called in big spots all year.

I agree it shouldn’t have been called.

But it wasn’t a terrible call.

It was barely an acceptable preseason call. Receiver was not impeded nor was his route altered.

even tho the defender agreed that he held him....theer is a clear shot of him wrapping him first and then doubling down with a handful of jersey as the WR is trying to get away....

 

[Chaka]

Seriously one of the worst endings of a Super Bowl, ever.

One of the best SBs ever and the most anti-climactic ending I've ever seen for how good the game was.

And it was a ref who decided the game, which is unconscionable.

We were set up for a brilliant, nail biting finish and...public fart instead.

Such a terrible call.

these type of posts are strange....."set up for a brilliant nail biting finish"...?....it was tied with 8 seconds left.....lol

just because you didn't get the ending YOU wanted with PHI getting the ball back and more time doesn't mean it wasn't brilliant or nail biting.....for KC fans it was brilliant....and until that ball went through the posts it was nail biting...

I don't care who won, it was a great game up to that point and I couldn't be more impressed by Mahomes's Willis Reed impersonation. It was amazing to watch after it looked like it was going to be a blowout at halftime.

But it was absolutely a terrible call. Just because you apparently got the outcome you wanted (or did you?) doesn't mean it wasn't a terrible call.

It was.

 

[Chaka]

uncatchable and not a PI

hold is a hold

Stop.

Not a hold on any level.

Terrible way to decide what had been a great game.

Ref's Bank account needs to be audited.

didn’t decide anything

It decided everything. Pretty sure you understand that but don't care for whatever reason.

as a raider fan i understand it all, they kicks the field goal and are up and have to defend. the issue was he held him

Except, you know that was a terrible call and are pretending it wasn't for some reason.

Any football fan should be outraged by that call.

It wasn’t a terrible. It was a soft call that I prefer not be called, but it appeared to be a defensive holding under the way the rule is written.

It was a hold. But we all know that some penalties don't get called in big spots all year.

I agree it shouldn’t have been called.

But it wasn’t a terrible call.

It was barely an acceptable preseason call. Receiver was not impeded nor was his route altered.

even tho the defender agreed that he held him....theer is a clear shot of him wrapping him first and then doubling down with a handful of jersey as the WR is trying to get away....

Terrible call.

 

[jhib]

I'm sure there are Eagles fans scouring their recordings for obvious missed defensive holding calls on KC during the game to post on social media. Has anyone seen any of those posts yet?

 

[Stinkin Ref]

If your team is really better it should never come down to one call. Win the freaking game or go home

This isn't about which team should have won. I don't care who won. I don't like either team, i didn't bet anything, didn't have any pools or squares I was just watching a game.

There was a massive conflict of interest with 70 percent of the money coming in on the Bengals and eagles. Both games were competitive and both ended with ticky tack calls in the final drive that absolutely did decide the outcomes.

You can argue that the Bengals and eagles should have done more earlier to win the game but to me this isn't about sour grapes over who won. Lots of teams have benefitted from or been hurt by calls in the playoffs and I generally say what you said.

This was different. These weren't just big calls, they were both game-deciding calls, in both games, with enormous money on both sides. Calls that you don't expect to get made where they were. Whether you agree or disagree with the calls, or believe that the best team won, or even that the plays were penalties, is all irrelevant.

In back to bsck games, one person with a whistle made a judgement call and it decided the outcome in a way that won Vegas money. I don't have faith that the league will do anything to address the conduct of interest. And it has shaken my interest in the NFL going forward

Like most Pats Championships. **** happens.

This isn't about Fandom. This is about the NFL breaking decades of not having a team in Vegas or officially supporting gambling. That changed two years ago and we just watched billions of dollars decided on two end of game calls. Regardless of what you thought about the outcome that should be concerning.

you realize by saying this that you are basically saying the ref that threw that flag was somehow "on the take"....is that what you are accusing THAT ref of being.....?

 

[Amused to Death]

I'm sure there are Eagles fans scouring their recordings for obvious missed defensive holding calls on KC during the game to post on social media. Has anyone seen any of those posts yet?

I don't doubt there are *some* but the Eagles fans I know IRL just accept that KC outplayed/outcoached them in the 2nd half. Congrats to the Chiefs and to Mahomes for a well deserved SB MVP.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

KC still might win the game if they don't call that penalty. The thing is they definitely win if they do. What a pathetic end to a great season.

All the momentum was with the chiefs at that point. I feel like they win either way.

Could have. But then it would have been on the field instead of by the refs hand when they had been pretty quiet all night.

It was on track to be an all time great SB game, unfortunately that destroyed any chance of a good ending. It’s basically the definition of when people preach “you can find holding on every play in an NFL game”. Most would prefer they let it go like they do 90% of the game so we could see how it plays out in the players hands. Doesn’t rank up there with the Philly Special game against the GOAT and others unfortunately due to that.

what do you define as a good ending....it was tied with 8 freaking seconds left....lol.....a good ending for one side is Hurts getting the ball back with 1:30 left or whatever.....but the other side believe me thought this was a "good ending"...

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

It's like being pulled over going 71 in a 65. Were you speeding? Of course. But if you know there were other people around you going 75 and 80 earlier, it's easy to feel put out. I think where people feel differently is that if you're only going to sporadically enforce something, how egregious do the infractions need to be?

The speeding is a great analogy. We all speed and we know it, but at what point can you expect to get a ticket. And as Bradberry said in his post game interview, yeah he grabbed the jersey but from what he experienced and saw during the playoffs, the refs were not consistent in making that call. This time they did.

Thanks, I made it several pages back in this very topic. I described the penalty as going 35 in a 25. Sometimes you’ll get a ticket for it, & sometimes you dont. Most holding calls are like that. In this case, the jersey tug was clear and evident. When a ref sees a stretched jersey, it’s an automatic flag. And credit where due, the flag was thrown, while the ball was in the air.

 

[jhib]

I'm sure there are Eagles fans scouring their recordings for obvious missed defensive holding calls on KC during the game to post on social media. Has anyone seen any of those posts yet?

I don't doubt there are *some* but the Eagles fans I know IRL just accept that KC outplayed/outcoached them in the 2nd half. Congrats to the Chiefs and to Mahomes for a well deserved SB MVP.

Same here regarding the Eagles fans I know (some of the best people I know in the world, btw), but I also know there are other types out there and a lot of them end up on showing it on social media.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Also whatever money they could make rigging games would pale in comparison to the potential losses from a gambling scandal, which would pretty much destroy the league

This.

The conspiracies about the NFL being rigged or even better, “scripted”c are laughable in light of the fact that it’s a billion dollar industry that would be absolutely destroyed by any sort of scandal like that.

Are there bad calls? Absolutely. That doesn’t make for a league-wide conspiracy to rig games so a certain team wins it all. It’s just human nature. They get a ton of difficult calls right.

KC still might win the game if they don't call that penalty. The thing is they definitely win if they do. What a pathetic end to a great season.

All the momentum was with the chiefs at that point. I feel like they win either way.

Could have. But then it would have been on the field instead of by the refs hand when they had been pretty quiet all night.

Bradberry clearly had a fistful of jersey. That play actually did happen on the field.

It’s hard to take for some, I realize, but that’s a penalty whether it happens in the 1st 3 mins of the game of the last 3 mins of the game. They don’t always call it. Here they did.

That the penalty was so impactful was simply a byproduct of the context in which it happened. Sad but true. Bradberry is to blame, not the ref who called it.

This isn't unfair, and I think most people tend to agree that at the very least it was NOT an egregious call. Not a fan of ANY calls at ANY time that have zero impact on the result of the play though, and especially so in critical situations. Refs tend to swallow the whistle on soft calls in these spots. Here, they didn't.
Most of us, even most of us Eagles fans, aren't blaming the refs for the end result. KC earned that W. It was, technically, a foul. It's disappointing, but (most of us) aren't steaming mad over it

I just wanted to see what Hurts would do with the ball one more time with two minutes left.

I think everyone watching wanted that as well - maybe even Chiefs fans.

uhhhhh....no....

 

[Army Eye]

what do you define as a good ending....it was tied with 8 freaking seconds left....lol.....a good ending for one side is Hurts getting the ball back with 1:30 left or whatever.....but the other side believe me thought this was a "good ending"...

ok and what about the 100 million viewers that weren't a fan of either team

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

uhhhhh....no....

I mean, as long as their team still won. lol

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

ok and what about the 100 million viewers that weren't a fan of either team

They should want a correctly officiated game.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

ok and what about the 100 million viewers that weren't a fan of either team

They should want a correctly officiated game.

Before every potential flag the ref should pause and think "is this what the tv viewers want to see?"

 

[efactor]

ok and what about the 100 million viewers that weren't a fan of either team

They should want a correctly officiated game.

They do, which is why people were mad about the bogus holding call

 

[jhib]

Seems like having the more mobile/rushing QB would be a big advantage if a slippery field is affecting the defense. Not saying it balances out taking away the advantage of the better pass rush, but it would be a consideration.

 

[Tau837]

And as Bradberry said in his post game interview, yeah he grabbed the jersey but from what he experienced and saw during the playoffs, the refs were not consistent in making that call.

I haven't seen an interview with Bradberry where he said this. I saw him say he held him, it was a penalty, and he hoped it wouldn't be called.

Did he really say the bolded? Sounds plausible, it just hasn't been in any of the sound bite clips I have seen. It also could easily be people other than Bradberry converting "I was hoping it wouldn't be called" into something like the bolded.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

ok and what about the 100 million viewers that weren't a fan of either team

They should want a correctly officiated game.

Before every potential flag the ref should pause and think "is this what the tv viewers want to see?"

legit lol

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

ok and what about the 100 million viewers that weren't a fan of either team

They should want a correctly officiated game.

They do, which is why people were mad about the bogus holding call

Legit eyeroll

 

[efactor]

ok and what about the 100 million viewers that weren't a fan of either team

They should want a correctly officiated game.

They do, which is why people were mad about the bogus holding call

Legit eyeroll

Truth denier I see

 

[Amused to Death]

And as Bradberry said in his post game interview, yeah he grabbed the jersey but from what he experienced and saw during the playoffs, the refs were not consistent in making that call.

I haven't seen an interview with Bradberry where he said this. I saw him say he held him, it was a penalty, and he hoped it wouldn't be called.

Did he really say the bolded? Sounds plausible, it just hasn't been in any of the sound bite clips I have seen. It also could easily be people other than Bradberry converting "I was hoping it wouldn't be called" into something like the bolded.

"Depends on the ref"

 

[eighsse2]

I am personally of the opinion that the penalty process should be: (1) observe play for any penalizable infractions, (2) if any infraction is observed, call the infraction (do not consider the score or the game clock, except obviously where those states affect the rule). If that means 99% of plays will have penalties, as some people suggest, so be it. Just stop committing penalties maybe?

ETA, which means the travesty was not the call at the end, but all of the no-calls. No sport should bestow such ridiculous levels of judgment on its referees. Why should they ever have power to "let them play" on a whim? See an infraction, call it.

 

[GoBirds]

KC still might win the game if they don't call that penalty. The thing is they definitely win if they do. What a pathetic end to a great season.

All the momentum was with the chiefs at that point. I feel like they win either way.

Could have. But then it would have been on the field instead of by the refs hand when they had been pretty quiet all night.

It was on track to be an all time great SB game, unfortunately that destroyed any chance of a good ending. It’s basically the definition of when people preach “you can find holding on every play in an NFL game”. Most would prefer they let it go like they do 90% of the game so we could see how it plays out in the players hands. Doesn’t rank up there with the Philly Special game against the GOAT and others unfortunately due to that.

what do you define as a good ending....it was tied with 8 freaking seconds left....lol.....a good ending for one side is Hurts getting the ball back with 1:30 left or whatever.....but the other side believe me thought this was a "good ending"...

Not talking sides, talking all football fans in general. It’s clear the outcome you are defending was a disappointment to 99% of fans as opposed to seeing football and a potential comeback for the last 1:50 or so if the game. It’s not that complicated.

 

[Chaka]

ok and what about the 100 million viewers that weren't a fan of either team

They should want a correctly officiated game.

If that call is representative of the standard we want games officiated going forward, NFL games will take over 5 hours to complete and become completely unwatchable.

 

[rockaction]

these type of posts are strange....."set up for a brilliant nail biting finish"...?....it was tied with 8 seconds left.....lol

They're not strange. I was rooting for KC and had picked them to win. Take your homer glasses off.

 

[Skipdog77]

This legit made me laugh out loud.

https://twitter.com/TeamJuJu/status/1625590293306445824?t=rT9Y8Xu4thyfcv1OaScxiw&s=19

 

[Stinkin Ref]

It's a big moment for the officials also and they actually start to see things as slower than normal due to their own adrenaline. I'm sure that hold looked bigger than **** to the ref who threw the flag. I'm sorry, but the human nature of subjective fouls (like defensive holding) lends itself to this kind of call in a huge moment because officials are humans with emotions and adrenaline as well. It's

I’ll add to this that if the ref who made the call believed that it was holding (which Bradberry admitted to, so hard to assume anything else) then what people are *actually* asking for here is a deliberate non-call by an official who both witnessed, and believed enough holding happened to throw the flag.

Which he did.

Imagine the outrage if he’d come out after the game and said, “I definitely saw the hold. It was right in front of me. I thought there was enough there, but due to the situation I decided to not call it &’ swallowed my whistle”.

And then if Bradberry came out and said “yep, I was holding. Sure am glad I got away with that one - it might have cost us the game.”

Just sayin - that sword is sharp on both sides.

this 100%....many need to read this like 10 times and it might finally sink in.....

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Truth denier I see

Still love ya, boo

 

[Stinkin Ref]

It's a big moment for the officials also and they actually start to see things as slower than normal due to their own adrenaline. I'm sure that hold looked bigger than **** to the ref who threw the flag. I'm sorry, but the human nature of subjective fouls (like defensive holding) lends itself to this kind of call in a huge moment because officials are humans with emotions and adrenaline as well. It's

I’ll add to this that if the ref who made the call believed that it was holding (which Bradberry admitted to, so hard to assume anything else) then what people are *actually* asking for here is a deliberate non-call by an official who both witnessed, and believed enough holding happened to throw the flag.

Which he did.

Imagine the outrage if he’d come out after the game and said, “I definitely saw the hold. It was right in front of me. I thought there was enough there, but due to the situation I decided to not call it &’ swallowed my whistle”.

And then if Bradberry came out and said “yep, I was holding. Sure am glad I got away with that one - it might have cost us the game.”

Just sayin - that sword is sharp on both sides.

He wouldn't have though. If there was no call, barely anyone would have noticed it and even less would have cared.

Except he absolutely saw it. Thus, my point.

He stated, quite clearly, that he saw a penalty.

I just quoted him above.

I get that. But the assertion that he would have come out after the game and say he blew a call most wouldn't have noticed is silly.

It’s beside the point of my hypothetical.

The point is, he saw a penalty & threw the flag.

The player admitted that he held. The red confirmed that he saw the penalty.

And what people seem to want is for that ref to have ignored the clear penalty he witnessed (at least in his eyes) in favor of a non-call for [reasons].

Ref made the call that he believed was correct on the field, player confirmed it. How is this remotely controversial other than everyone wanting overtime?

There's no controversy with the individual ref. It's with the league in general. No consistency. Let holding go the whole game then call it to end the game.

I don't remember much talk about "letting holding go all game".....but people keep saying this like it is fact....I don't remember them one time mentioning "wow these refs are really letting them play in the secondary".....its's just after this call everybody is assuming it was happening all game but wasn't called....if that was happening I would think the broadcasters would have mentioned it...

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

It's a big moment for the officials also and they actually start to see things as slower than normal due to their own adrenaline. I'm sure that hold looked bigger than **** to the ref who threw the flag. I'm sorry, but the human nature of subjective fouls (like defensive holding) lends itself to this kind of call in a huge moment because officials are humans with emotions and adrenaline as well. It's

I’ll add to this that if the ref who made the call believed that it was holding (which Bradberry admitted to, so hard to assume anything else) then what people are *actually* asking for here is a deliberate non-call by an official who both witnessed, and believed enough holding happened to throw the flag.

Which he did.

Imagine the outrage if he’d come out after the game and said, “I definitely saw the hold. It was right in front of me. I thought there was enough there, but due to the situation I decided to not call it &’ swallowed my whistle”.

And then if Bradberry came out and said “yep, I was holding. Sure am glad I got away with that one - it might have cost us the game.”

Just sayin - that sword is sharp on both sides.

this 100%....many need to read this like 10 times and it might finally sink in.....

Imagine if he’d swallowed his whistle & the Eagles came back to win it.

I’m sure everyone would be super calm about it and not, you know, talk about it literally forever.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

This legit made me laugh out loud.

https://twitter.com/TeamJuJu/status/1625590293306445824?t=rT9Y8Xu4thyfcv1OaScxiw&s=19

Saw that a little while ago & lol’d

 

[Wingnut]

This legit made me laugh out loud.

https://twitter.com/TeamJuJu/status/1625590293306445824?t=rT9Y8Xu4thyfcv1OaScxiw&s=19

Saw that a little while ago & lol’d

AJ Brown responded

https://twitter.com/1kalwaysopen_/status/1625604922388492290?t=2Kkr_0n7E5IKwjyy1ZGUYw&s=19

 

[Stinkin Ref]

This is not sour grapes; the Eagles deserved to lose. But the holding call at the end of the game was a ****ing travesty. The refs set the tempo of what they would or would not call for the entire game and there NO flags in the second half. To throw a flag at that moment on such a ticky tack foul when they were not all game was just ****ed. I think we absolutely could have gone the field with 1:45 left and kicked a FG or maybe even scored a TD. But here's the thing, if we get the ball and the Eagles go 3 and out, okay. We had a shot and the Chiefs D did their job. I can swallow that loss. This loss I can't. They basically took away any chance for the Eagles to mount one last drive and put it on the defense to stop us. It was beyond egregious..

Both teams had a drive eliminated by the officiating and the Chiefs drive was more egregious. It was just in the 1st half and they won, so hardly anyone is talking about it.

Some great/classic ending was all we were robbed of, but the call was a 60/40 call that gets made more often than not throughout the season.

It's a big moment for the officials also and they actually start to see things as slower than normal due to their own adrenaline. I'm sure that hold looked bigger than **** to the ref who threw the flag. I'm sorry, but the human nature of subjective fouls (like defensive holding) lends itself to this kind of call in a huge moment because officials are humans with emotions and adrenaline as well. It's the biggest game of their careers, so just like a player who may slightly miss a throw/catch/shot, etc. because they are too excited or caught up in the moment, a ref can miss a call because they are too excited. I'm sure in retrospect after watching film he wishes he'd let it go, but it was a justifiable penalty and he saw enough at the time to throw the flag. He likely asked the sideline official and back judge what they thought here, but if no one took him off it he had enough to stick with the call.

It's not egregious or a travesty, its just an unfortunate case of humanity in a game played and officiated by humans.

I think the thing that too many people forget is that the officials are part of the humanity of sports. They aren't a faceless robot with no skin in the game, but humans doing their very best (at least the majority of the time and certainly at this level). To err is human and all....

I get it, but honestly, they let them play all game long, setting a precedent for what is and isn't allowed. Again there were no flags thrown in the second half although that level of contact was happening all game. In the biggest moment, when a 3rd down conversion basically ends the game they decided to throw a towel at an EXTREMELY ticky tack play that had no effect on the play. These guys should have some situational awareness. FWIW, that was a late-*** flag too.

No effect on the play? He held the very guy Mahomes threw too. IMO it was late because they only called it because the hold had a direct impact on the play.

Also, “EXTREMELY ticky tack”? He had a fistful of jersey and held him twice. If he didn’t hold him he would have dusted the defender and been to the wide open spot Mahomes threw to.


ETA - I totally understand your frustration and I would normally be sympathetic but I’ve had my heart broken in similar fashion so many times I can’t be.

https://twitter.com/footballzebras/status/1624971786470281223?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1624971786470281223%7Ctwgr%5E1615ced9b38bb5ccd5d843b9f1cc640dbf341c5b%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sbnation.com%2Fnfl%2F2023%2F2%2F12%2F23597193%2Fsuper-bowl-holding-penalty-video-chiefs-eagles-2023

You explain to me where he had a fistful of jersey and held him twice. And no, he wouldn't have dusted the defender.

You’re using an interesting clip.

Here’s a full breakdown. It’s clearly and obviously a hold.

To those arguing “well they don’t always call that” - I’ve agreed with y’all.

But the take that it’s not even a penalty based on a selective camera angle is ice cold.

I'm not saying its "not a penalty" I'm responding to the notion that it materially impacted the play so much that the WR would have dusted the defender if not for the contact. I stand by that. What I REALLY had a problem with is that this contact wasn't call all game...until it was. Whatever, I've said five times that its not why the Eagles lost. I just have an issue with the Super Bowl ending because of a penalty that was being let go for 59 previous minutes. It is what it is, but it sucks.

bolded....I don't remember this being the case that there was all this type of holding going on all game.....you would have thought that would have been a pretty big part of the game if it was happening all the time.....do you have specific plays, cause it sounds like there was a ton of them "happening all game and all the time during the first 58 minutes...."

 

[Stinkin Ref]

I know college and NFL officiating have some differences, but I think keys and basic philosophies are very similar. Here is my understanding of the officiating of the defensive holding play.

Each of 5 officials are assigned an eligible receiver/back prior to the snap based on the formation. Widest receiver on each side is the deep wing's key (FJ/SJ) and then from there assigned to the short wings (LJ/DJ) and back judge depending on strong side or balanced keys (back judge shades to LJ side with LJ taking a back). If they read pass, they stay with their key to observe any potential holding or OPI action or anything bigger (facemask, unnecessary roughness, etc.). Once the play develops and some eligibles cross, the officials can/will switch keys or go to more of a zone coverage philosophy (like of the LJ key goes deep up the middle or the BJ key stays short in the flat). All of that takes a lot of pregame discussion, film review and communication during games to keep straight and organized.

Once the ball is thrown, typically anyone near the target area immediately should look at the intended receiver and covering defenders to watch for pass interference either way and then to help with catch/no catch determination.

I say all of that to say that the DH was one guy's call as none of the other officials would have (or should have) been looking there at that time. It was the deep wing's key (who was stationary at the goal line when they snap from the 15 yl) and he would have just stared at Smith-Shuster and Bradberry two the entire play where he would have seen the restriction and the jersey pull, looked to find the football (still in Mahomes hand in the pocket). He then immediately decided to throw the flag. Note the flag throw is already started while the ball is in the air which means he committed to it right before the pass was thrown. This decision was made in about a second and based on years of experience and film study and discussions with other officials and officiating trainers. While it was a quick judgement and reactionary call, it wasn't done in a vacuum and it wasn't this officials first DH call of the season or career. He saw the play, felt it met his threshold for material restriction and the rest of the play met the criteria for a defensive hold, so he threw the flag.

this...I was going to make a post about officials responsibilities on plays and how they develop.....but you nailed it here....great post

 

[amnesiac]

It's a big moment for the officials also and they actually start to see things as slower than normal due to their own adrenaline. I'm sure that hold looked bigger than **** to the ref who threw the flag. I'm sorry, but the human nature of subjective fouls (like defensive holding) lends itself to this kind of call in a huge moment because officials are humans with emotions and adrenaline as well. It's

I’ll add to this that if the ref who made the call believed that it was holding (which Bradberry admitted to, so hard to assume anything else) then what people are *actually* asking for here is a deliberate non-call by an official who both witnessed, and believed enough holding happened to throw the flag.

Which he did.

Imagine the outrage if he’d come out after the game and said, “I definitely saw the hold. It was right in front of me. I thought there was enough there, but due to the situation I decided to not call it &’ swallowed my whistle”.

And then if Bradberry came out and said “yep, I was holding. Sure am glad I got away with that one - it might have cost us the game.”

Just sayin - that sword is sharp on both sides.

He wouldn't have though. If there was no call, barely anyone would have noticed it and even less would have cared.

Except he absolutely saw it. Thus, my point.

He stated, quite clearly, that he saw a penalty.

I just quoted him above.

I get that. But the assertion that he would have come out after the game and say he blew a call most wouldn't have noticed is silly.

It’s beside the point of my hypothetical.

The point is, he saw a penalty & threw the flag.

The player admitted that he held. The red confirmed that he saw the penalty.

And what people seem to want is for that ref to have ignored the clear penalty he witnessed (at least in his eyes) in favor of a non-call for [reasons].

Ref made the call that he believed was correct on the field, player confirmed it. How is this remotely controversial other than everyone wanting overtime?

There's no controversy with the individual ref. It's with the league in general. No consistency. Let holding go the whole game then call it to end the game.

I don't remember much talk about "letting holding go all game".....but people keep saying this like it is fact....I don't remember them one time mentioning "wow these refs are really letting them play in the secondary".....its's just after this call everybody is assuming it was happening all game but wasn't called....if that was happening I would think the broadcasters would have mentioned it...

i certainly remember games in the past that the announcers made note of "lot's of contact" or "they're really letting them play," but i personally don't recall any comments such as those during this game.