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Taking in a child from a troubled home NOV '23 UPDATE: Epilogue (1 Viewer)

MikeIke said:
Had a hearing with the judge today. Padme is now legally under our custody, but I guess it's only temporary. We have another hearing at the end of March to make it permanent. I'm not sure why there has to be a delay. We have what's called an "ex parte" which gives us guardianship. 

One thing the judge stressed to us today was "This is the third time [Padme's] custody has come before me in court. Mr. and Mrs. [Ike], do you realize that you are expected to keep her with you at least until she turns 18?" My wife and I both agreed that we understand. 

When we got home I told Padme that the judge had made us promise we wouldn't be pawning her off on another family a year from now. She got a big smile. I think she liked hearing that. 

Poor kid, she just wants a stable home. She's 12 and has never had one. 
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You're a mensch.  

 
MikeIke said:
Had a hearing with the judge today. Padme is now legally under our custody, but I guess it's only temporary. We have another hearing at the end of March to make it permanent. I'm not sure why there has to be a delay. We have what's called an "ex parte" which gives us guardianship. 

One thing the judge stressed to us today was "This is the third time [Padme's] custody has come before me in court. Mr. and Mrs. [Ike], do you realize that you are expected to keep her with you at least until she turns 18?" My wife and I both agreed that we understand. 

When we got home I told Padme that the judge had made us promise we wouldn't be pawning her off on another family a year from now. She got a big smile. I think she liked hearing that. 

Poor kid, she just wants a stable home. She's 12 and has never had one. 
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Ex parte means it was done without the other interested party to the lawsuit.  The judge can't grant full legal guardianship without the other involved people (mother, grandparents, whoever may have legal rights) being afforded the right to speak and argue against you.  An ex parte order is therefore almost always temporary, giving you what you want for the time being, until the court has a chance to give notice and a hearing to other people.

 
A nice thread like this has me thinking of checking into the FFA a little more often.  Good on you MikeIke :)

I have not good advice to offer and it looks like that base is covered but wish you and your expanded family the best :thumbup:

-QG

 
Henry Ford said:
Ex parte means it was done without the other interested party to the lawsuit.  The judge can't grant full legal guardianship without the other involved people (mother, grandparents, whoever may have legal rights) being afforded the right to speak and argue against you.  An ex parte order is therefore almost always temporary, giving you what you want for the time being, until the court has a chance to give notice and a hearing to other people.
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We had the mother and father sign waivers acknowledging that they'd been made aware that custody of their daughter was being transferred. I guess at this next hearing they'll get a chance to argue against it, but don't see that happening. Hell, they'll probably both be in jail again by then. 

 
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MikeIke said:
We had the mother and father sign waivers acknowledging that they'd been made aware that custody of their daughter was being transferred. I guess at this next hearing they'll get a chance to argue against it, but don't see that happening. Hell, they'll probably both be in jail again by then. 
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It's a procedural issue.  If the court had granted your petition at this past hearing, the custody order would be fairly easily challenged later.

 
Wow. Such a good thread.

So great to know you and your family are out there doing this. You're giving this young girl something she didn't have before - a chance.

Again, gb you and the fam.

 
Love hearing the updates! Also glad to hear all the legal is moving so fast. It will be nice to get that behind you and settle in. Congrats!!! 

 
MikeIke said:
Had a hearing with the judge today. Padme is now legally under our custody, but I guess it's only temporary. We have another hearing at the end of March to make it permanent. I'm not sure why there has to be a delay. We have what's called an "ex parte" which gives us guardianship. 

One thing the judge stressed to us today was "This is the third time [Padme's] custody has come before me in court. Mr. and Mrs. [Ike], do you realize that you are expected to keep her with you at least until she turns 18?" My wife and I both agreed that we understand. 

When we got home I told Padme that the judge had made us promise we wouldn't be pawning her off on another family a year from now. She got a big smile. I think she liked hearing that. 

Poor kid, she just wants a stable home. She's 12 and has never had one. 
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You are one hell of man, much better than myself.  This is such a feel good story.  Thank you.   

 
One thing that is not good is that my wife and Padme are both  very stubborn. This has led to a lot of blowups where they fight with each other over the most ridiculous things, and neither is willing to give an inch. 

I've told my wife time and time again to just let it go, don't make a big deal about it. The thing is, Padme seems to be itching for a fight and my wife is more than willing to give it to her. She lets herself be baited by a 12-year old girl trying to push her boundaries. 

Another thing we've noticed, and it may go hand in hand with the above, is that Padme seems to only accept criticism or discipline from a male. She will argue with my wife non-stop but if I'm talking to her she won't argue, she'll accept what I say or decide. Same thing happens at school: she has no respect for female teachers but male teachers are automatically listened to. 

It's an interesting psychological tic of hers. We're starting family counseling next week and I'm definitely going to bring this up with the therapist (who is male.) 

 
MikeIke said:
One thing that is not good is that my wife and Padme are both  very stubborn. This has led to a lot of blowups where they fight with each other over the most ridiculous things, and neither is willing to give an inch. 

I've told my wife time and time again to just let it go, don't make a big deal about it. The thing is, Padme seems to be itching for a fight and my wife is more than willing to give it to her. She lets herself be baited by a 12-year old girl trying to push her boundaries. 

Another thing we've noticed, and it may go hand in hand with the above, is that Padme seems to only accept criticism or discipline from a male. She will argue with my wife non-stop but if I'm talking to her she won't argue, she'll accept what I say or decide. Same thing happens at school: she has no respect for female teachers but male teachers are automatically listened to. 

It's an interesting psychological tic of hers. We're starting family counseling next week and I'm definitely going to bring this up with the therapist (who is male.) 
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Perhaps this is what she saw before she came to you. That and she's a tween. I know I was and still am a daddy's girl. Family counseling is a great move. Individual counseling may help Padme and your wife as well. GL

 
MikeIke said:
We had the mother and father sign waivers acknowledging that they'd been made aware that custody of their daughter was being transferred. I guess at this next hearing they'll get a chance to argue against it, but don't see that happening. Hell, they'll probably both be in jail again by then. 
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I forget which state you're in, but doing things in two steps like that is pretty universal even if no custody challenge is anticipated.  No reason for concern as you clearly realize.

Congrats!!!   :)  

 
MikeIke said:
One thing that is not good is that my wife and Padme are both  very stubborn. This has led to a lot of blowups where they fight with each other over the most ridiculous things, and neither is willing to give an inch. 

I've told my wife time and time again to just let it go, don't make a big deal about it. The thing is, Padme seems to be itching for a fight and my wife is more than willing to give it to her. She lets herself be baited by a 12-year old girl trying to push her boundaries. 

Another thing we've noticed, and it may go hand in hand with the above, is that Padme seems to only accept criticism or discipline from a male. She will argue with my wife non-stop but if I'm talking to her she won't argue, she'll accept what I say or decide. Same thing happens at school: she has no respect for female teachers but male teachers are automatically listened to. 

It's an interesting psychological tic of hers. We're starting family counseling next week and I'm definitely going to bring this up with the therapist (who is male.) 
Click to expand...
What’s a typical argument over and how intense do they get? 

 
MikeIke said:
Had a hearing with the judge today. Padme is now legally under our custody, but I guess it's only temporary. We have another hearing at the end of March to make it permanent. I'm not sure why there has to be a delay. We have what's called an "ex parte" which gives us guardianship. 

One thing the judge stressed to us today was "This is the third time [Padme's] custody has come before me in court. Mr. and Mrs. [Ike], do you realize that you are expected to keep her with you at least until she turns 18?" My wife and I both agreed that we understand. 

When we got home I told Padme that the judge had made us promise we wouldn't be pawning her off on another family a year from now. She got a big smile. I think she liked hearing that. 

Poor kid, she just wants a stable home. She's 12 and has never had one. 
Click to expand...
I love reading this...so very sad she has been bounced around.  Bless you and your family for doing this.  Hopefully it brings joy to all.

 
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MikeIke said:
One thing that is not good is that my wife and Padme are both  very stubborn. This has led to a lot of blowups where they fight with each other over the most ridiculous things, and neither is willing to give an inch. 

I've told my wife time and time again to just let it go, don't make a big deal about it. The thing is, Padme seems to be itching for a fight and my wife is more than willing to give it to her. She lets herself be baited by a 12-year old girl trying to push her boundaries. 

Another thing we've noticed, and it may go hand in hand with the above, is that Padme seems to only accept criticism or discipline from a male. She will argue with my wife non-stop but if I'm talking to her she won't argue, she'll accept what I say or decide. Same thing happens at school: she has no respect for female teachers but male teachers are automatically listened to. 

It's an interesting psychological tic of hers. We're starting family counseling next week and I'm definitely going to bring this up with the therapist (who is male.) 
Click to expand...
Time for your wife to sack up.  Pick your battles.  If she's fighting about food, clothes, make-up, etc, stop it.  State the rules clearly as a team and stick to them.  Your wife is now her most important role model.  Behaving like a three-year-old is not an option.

Maybe some parenting classes would be useful.

 
Beef Ravioli said:
What’s a typical argument over and how intense do they get? 
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It's usually over stupid stuff. She got in trouble at school and wife wanted her to come sit at the table and talk to us about it. Padme just stood there staring at my wife. Wouldn't sit down. Told wife "You can't make me sit down." 

Wife told her she's grounded for a day. Padme shrugged her shoulders. Wife adds another day. Same thing. This went on until it was up to three weeks. I'm telling Padme, "just sit down and talk to us, this isn't helping you." She just shrugs her shoulders again. 

Wife finally gives up, kind of. "Fine. You want to stand there? You can stand there for the next two hours. If you want to sit down and talk to us, let us know." 

Padme actually stood in the same spot for an hour and a half. The rest of us went about our day. Boys  were playing video games, I was watching them and playing on my phone. Wife was on the computer. Padme finally said "can I sit down now?" and we finally talked about what happened. 

Just so stupid! I couldn't believe the way Padme was acting; I've never seen anything remotely like that from my boys. She made things 100x worse on herself just to try and prove a point. 

That's not a typical argument , but it does give a glimpse into her mindset. 

This is going to be harder than I thought. 

 
Mrs. Rannous said:
Time for your wife to sack up.  Pick your battles.  If she's fighting about food, clothes, make-up, etc, stop it.  State the rules clearly as a team and stick to them.  Your wife is now her most important role model.  Behaving like a three-year-old is not an option.

Maybe some parenting classes would be useful.
Click to expand...
I've told my wife not to make everything a fight. She didn't listen. Then she talked to her sister, who told her the same thing. This time she listened. She told me that if things look like they're escalating into a fight, she's going to tell Padme to talk to me about it. 

Not an ideal plan, but it's better than what we've had the last couple weeks. 

 
MikeIke said:
More like she doesn't listen to what I say unless her family agrees with me. 
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Sorry.  That really sucks.  Your marriage is between you guys and only you guys.  I'd recommend some counseling or at least reading now, especially with a partly grown child being added.  You need unity to bring her into your family.

And thinking about it, that stubborn thing is what a normal five-year-old does.  She may be a bit delayed socially because that's all she knows.  Punishing rather than teaching isn't going to cut it.

 
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MikeIke said:
One thing that is not good is that my wife and Padme are both  very stubborn. This has led to a lot of blowups where they fight with each other over the most ridiculous things, and neither is willing to give an inch. 

I've told my wife time and time again to just let it go, don't make a big deal about it. The thing is, Padme seems to be itching for a fight and my wife is more than willing to give it to her. She lets herself be baited by a 12-year old girl trying to push her boundaries. 

Another thing we've noticed, and it may go hand in hand with the above, is that Padme seems to only accept criticism or discipline from a male. She will argue with my wife non-stop but if I'm talking to her she won't argue, she'll accept what I say or decide. Same thing happens at school: she has no respect for female teachers but male teachers are automatically listened to. 

It's an interesting psychological tic of hers. We're starting family counseling next week and I'm definitely going to bring this up with the therapist (who is male.) 
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When you consider what a POS her birth mother probably is and how dysfunctional their relationship probably is, it's no wonder.  She probably has tons of subconscious animosity towards female authority figures because she doesn't trust them.  Going to be a huge test for your wife's emotional maturity.   I hope you guys get some insights and tools to use in family counseling.  

I'm rooting for you guys and love the positive updates, but also enjoy hearing about the struggles as much if not more.  It's just going to make the highs that much sweeter.

 
[scooter] said:
Huh. So your wife seems to only accept criticism from a female...
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Not exactly. She won't accept from her husband. I am the same way, I think most women are. 

As for Padme, I think it is more about getting or keeping your attention by being defiant. It might be the only way she could get attention from her parents for all those years. 

 
cockroach said:
When you consider what a POS her birth mother probably is and how dysfunctional their relationship probably is, it's no wonder.  She probably has tons of subconscious animosity towards female authority figures because she doesn't trust them.   Going to be a huge test for your wife's emotional maturity.   I hope you guys get some insights and tools to use in family counseling.  

I'm rooting for you guys and love the positive updates, but also enjoy hearing about the struggles as much if not more.  It's just going to make the highs that much sweeter.
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I think that's exactly what it is, but I'm no psychologist. She's always had to be the "mother" and now that she has a woman that is actually treating her like a mother would, she doesn't know how to cope. 

 
msudaisy26 said:
As for Padme, I think it is more about getting or keeping your attention by being defiant. It might be the only way she could get attention from her parents for all those years. 
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Yes I'm sure that's part of it. She wants attention, good or bad. The grandmother she's been living with for the last year said the same thing. When she's under punishment , she usually behaves pretty well. When she's not, she acts out to get punished again. 

 
Good on you, MikeIke. I just caught up with this thread now. The Mrs and I have been watching "This Is Us" and have chatted several times about one of it's recurring themes- reaching out and making a difference in a young person's life. Much like you are doing now. I have to give you and your wife- and the boys!- kudos for stepping up to the plate for this girl. I'll venture a guess that we're a few years older than you and your wife. For us, NOT doing something like this to date definitely falls under the heading that a FBG mentioned somewhere in here regarding "Regret things that you do, not the things that you don't do." We felt that we had stuff on our plate that precluded us from doing this years back, but it certainly doesn't get any easier as you get older. Padme finally has "luck" on her side in you and you family, and you'll all be in our thought and prayers. 

 
MikeIke said:
I've told my wife not to make everything a fight. She didn't listen. Then she talked to her sister, who told her the same thing. This time she listened. She told me that if things look like they're escalating into a fight, she's going to tell Padme to talk to me about it. 

Not an ideal plan, but it's better than what we've had the last couple weeks. 
Click to expand...
:thumbup: I think anyone with kids realizes sooner or later that you just have to pick your battles or else every single damn thing can and will become an argument.  So I guess what I am saying is that this is pretty typical. In this case, typical is great, IMO. You're doing great, GB. 

 
You guys are forgetting the big one - hormones.

You now have a pre-teen daughter in your house, who is going through something COMPLETELY different than your boys. Not to mention she has had no female guidance to speak of her whole life.

You guys need to recognize the hormone aspect of this, and the sooner the better. She needs to know about these changes happening in her life, and that sometimes behavior is dictated strictly by hormones. 

I have had this conversation with my 12 year old son, and I've even told him: "Look, I know sometimes bad behavior happens because you are almost a teenager, so your body and mind are changing and it can affect how you act, how you respond to things, all of it." 

 
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Yes, even the judge told us the other day that in addition to her other problems, now she's going through puberty and that's just going to make things worse. 

 
MikeIke said:
Another thing we've noticed, and it may go hand in hand with the above, is that Padme seems to only accept criticism or discipline from a male.
Click to expand...
This isn't atypical for middle school aged girls.  

Not to generalize but my female students, even the more defiant ones, respond better than my male students.  This isn't always the case with my female colleagues.

Female teacher:  Have you been having any problems with Madison J?  

Me:  Meh.  She can be talkative and doesn't stay on task some of the time.  Usually I just pull her aside and talk to her.

Female teacher:  She's terrible for me.  She does nothing but argue with me.

:shrug:  

 
MikeIke said:
Yes I'm sure that's part of it. She wants attention, good or bad. The grandmother she's been living with for the last year said the same thing. When she's under punishment , she usually behaves pretty well. When she's not, she acts out to get punished again. 
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Interesting. I've heard of people subconsciously (or maybe even consciously) seeking discipline and structure that's lacking in their life. I think I saw this on Celebrity Rehab or something. :bag:  

 
MikeIke said:
One thing that is not good is that my wife and Padme are both  very stubborn. This has led to a lot of blowups where they fight with each other over the most ridiculous things, and neither is willing to give an inch. 

I've told my wife time and time again to just let it go, don't make a big deal about it. The thing is, Padme seems to be itching for a fight and my wife is more than willing to give it to her. She lets herself be baited by a 12-year old girl trying to push her boundaries. 

Another thing we've noticed, and it may go hand in hand with the above, is that Padme seems to only accept criticism or discipline from a male. She will argue with my wife non-stop but if I'm talking to her she won't argue, she'll accept what I say or decide. Same thing happens at school: she has no respect for female teachers but male teachers are automatically listened to. 

It's an interesting psychological tic of hers. We're starting family counseling next week and I'm definitely going to bring this up with the therapist (who is male.) 
Click to expand...
Her mother is the least reliable person in her life.  Your wife is going to have to be an absolute rock; she’s (at least unconsciously) finding out if that’s what all women are.  And she will be. 

 
Wow, it's been more than two months since I've updated this thread. There's actually a good reason for that - I'm trying to bring her into to my family but she keeps messing it up. Bottom line - I regret bringing Padme into my home and I think this 12-year-old girl might literally be a sociopath. 

(Ugh, I've tried typing about 10 different responses here and nothing seems to work. I guess my best option at this point is to not give details but instead, just focus on a general direction. If I concentrate on one storyline everything will get lost in the details).

Padme is restricted from social media. When she has access to Facebook or Instagram she immediately messages old "friends" and begins engaging in hateful arguments. For example, in the last 2 weeks she's had a "friend" tell her she should either be ####### a dog on a Webcam or just kill herself. This was after we had given her back her online privileges after extended good behavior. And it wasn't just the "friend" engaging in conversation, Padme replied and was just as nasty in her responses. REMINDER : She's 12 years old.

We had to take her out of the public school we enrolled her in after 2 weeks. She'd gotten into a fistfight with another girl. Now she goes to the charter school where my wife works. It's an International school with mostly Somali and/or Muslim students. She repeatedly walks out of class when she gets angry or bored. This is a good school, and she completely ignores their rules, probably because my wife works there and she thinks she gets special consideration. 

She made friends with a girl down the street. This girl is also troubled, to the point where I wouldn't let her come to our house anymore about a year ago.  After 2 weeks of Padme being friends with this girl, they had almost gotten kicked out of the church youth group. The girl's mom told me that there was no way she was going to let all to progress her daughter had made be ruined by Padme. 

I don't know what to say at this point. We have good weeks and bad weeks. Sometimes she's as sweet as can be and the daughter I never had. Other times, she's pure evil and ruining our family. 

Bottom line is, I definitely feel that I made a mistake. I never should have involved myself to this degree in Padme's life. But now I'm stuck, just as much as if she were my biological daughter. 

I just hope that I can look at this thread 5 years from now and laugh at how bad I thought it might get. 

 
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Ugh.

There are no good answers here. You're a good guy for going as far as you've gone.

Do young sociopaths ever grow out of it? I honestly don't know.

 
Binky The Doormat said:
Sorry man, I would not know what to do in this situation.  How is this affecting your other kids?
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They both wish we wouldn't have brought her into our family. Life was better before we did. 

But now, she's almost as much my daughter as they are my sons. She's mine legally. We just have to deal with it as a family. 

 
[scooter] said:
Ugh.

There are no good answers here. You're a good guy for going as far as you've gone.

Do young sociopaths ever grow out of it? I honestly don't know.
Click to expand...
I may have overstated it. She may not be a literal sociopath, because she shows emotions toward her sister, and toward our pets. 

But no, if a person is a literal sociopath they don't outgrow it. It's part of who they are. 

 
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