Sabertooth
Footballguy
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TE Jimmy Graham, CHI (2 Viewers)
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Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Glad I had a bye this week, Graham or Cameron next week???
Definitely Graham if he plays, but damn, wow, suckin
Definitely Graham if he plays, but damn, wow, suckin
lod01
Footballguy
Yep. Moving onto the next round of the playoffs with jimmy thanks to leveon and Calvin and chuck Johnson. Go Jimmy.
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
Yeah except the saints are gutless
zamboni
Footballguy
Jimmy's stat collapse is one of the most baffling things in a baffling fantasy season.
As someone said up thread, I think we're going to find out after the season that Jimmy's injury (or possibly injuries) were much worse than they let on.
Not that it does much good for hopefuly fantasy owners this year. :(
As someone said up thread, I think we're going to find out after the season that Jimmy's injury (or possibly injuries) were much worse than they let on.
Not that it does much good for hopefuly fantasy owners this year. :(
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Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
There has to be some injury issue(s) that are not being fully disclosed. Has to be. This makes no sense. So now what? I know everyone will say you can't bench him but 2.5 standard for the last two weeks combined!? I could sign someone like Celek and get at least that. Or fugg it, pick Watson or the other TE on the saints. I managed to survive on a couple teams with him on and I just don't know what to do next week...
He was even in during garbage time following being slightly banged up on his lower back, so Im still assuming he's healthy enough...and so a must-start unless you're sitting on another top TE.
zamboni
Footballguy
To play devil's advocate, how many guys aren't playing hurt at this point? After three years of being nicked up, it seems more and more that Jimmy doesn't play as well through injuries as some other top players do. Not that he's not tough, but just doesn't seem to easily overcome his injuries.
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The Claymaker
Footballguy
I think Graham has always been soft and I think teams are starting to expose it, hit him off the line and just play him physical all game and he seems to get "dinged" more frequently and takes himself out of the game. I like Graham a lot and have him in a dynasty league but I have always thought he played a little soft and gets shook up by a lot of contact.
TenTimes
Backhoe Operator
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Hope he finishes the season like this. May actually be able to acquire him. He's always been untouchable.
rjv
Footballguy
Agreed
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
In my opinion, Graham looks like he's playing with a hesitant attitude---as if he's playing not to get hurt. It seems like he's scared to get up to full speed or full elevation on his jumps--perhaps because he's worried about collisions or impacts with his shoulder issue. The other thing that is possibly going under the radar a bit is the regression of Brees this season. Brees has historically been considered an elite QB in reality as well as an elite QB in fantasy. Aside from the 5 td game last week--Brees has not really had a great season (relative to his high standards). Many of his stats have been produced in garbage time--so his season would even look worse without these. In general--the Saints look very dysfunctional to me. I've been reading things about Payton not liking Ryan--and I have a feeling that there might be some sort of internal turmoil with the team. Just look at the product that they are putting on the field--it is an empty, gutless team that is void of pride. For a team to have a home game to keep them on top of their division---against an opponent that has looked very beatable this season---to get destroyed the way that they did shows that there is something wrong with the culture of that organization.
shadyridr
Footballguy
Bottom line is, Saints still control their own destiny (assuming ATL loses to GB this week) and they face the horrendous Bears def next week. None of us are benching Graham next week. NONE OF US. So we can ##### and moan and whine all we want but theres really no reason to even think about this guy for another week.
rjv
Footballguy
Great analysis jv and I tend to agree but I believe its the putrid play of the offensive line more than a regression of brees and like I stated before about Ryan, most overrated coordinator in the league.
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jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
I'd imagine that probably half or over half of Graham owners probably don't have to worry about setting rosters for next week..lol
zamboni
Footballguy
Interesting stat line for the Saints - pardon the formatting.
Graham was the most targeted of the NO receivers, but only caught 3 of 11. Yet no one else else had nearly as bad of a completion rate.
For those of us that didn't see the game, was Brees forcing the ball to Graham in uncatchable situations, or did Jimmy just not make a play on them?
Receiving Name Pts Rec Yds TD Tgt Cadet, Travaris NOS RB 2 2 13 2 Colston, Marques NOS WR 12 5 72 7 Graham, Jimmy NOS TE 3 3 25 11 Ingram, Mark NOS RB 5 2 13 2 Lorig, Erik NOS RB 2 2 -1 2 Morgan, Joseph NOS WR 2 2 23 5 Stills, Kenny NOS WR 3 3 23 4 Thomas, Pierre NOS RB 9 4 14 6 Toon, Nick NOS WR 8 4 45 4 Watson, Ben NOS TE 8 2 8 1
Graham was the most targeted of the NO receivers, but only caught 3 of 11. Yet no one else else had nearly as bad of a completion rate.
For those of us that didn't see the game, was Brees forcing the ball to Graham in uncatchable situations, or did Jimmy just not make a play on them?
Receiving Name Pts Rec Yds TD Tgt Cadet, Travaris NOS RB 2 2 13 2 Colston, Marques NOS WR 12 5 72 7 Graham, Jimmy NOS TE 3 3 25 11 Ingram, Mark NOS RB 5 2 13 2 Lorig, Erik NOS RB 2 2 -1 2 Morgan, Joseph NOS WR 2 2 23 5 Stills, Kenny NOS WR 3 3 23 4 Thomas, Pierre NOS RB 9 4 14 6 Toon, Nick NOS WR 8 4 45 4 Watson, Ben NOS TE 8 2 8 1
fightingillini
Footballguy
My opinion is that
1) Graham is not 100%, but he doesn't play as tough as he should.
2) It's much easier to gameplan and take Graham out of the game. Colston is on his last legs, and Stills is somewhat inconsistent.
3) NO runs the ball a lot more than they used to
4) NO REALLY misses Darren Sproles. That, and PT has missed a lot of time this year.
5) Something doesn't look right with Brees. He looked terrible yesterday.
1) Graham is not 100%, but he doesn't play as tough as he should.
2) It's much easier to gameplan and take Graham out of the game. Colston is on his last legs, and Stills is somewhat inconsistent.
3) NO runs the ball a lot more than they used to
4) NO REALLY misses Darren Sproles. That, and PT has missed a lot of time this year.
5) Something doesn't look right with Brees. He looked terrible yesterday.
It was a highly uncompetitive game so there is very little to take from the stats.
There were more well thrown balls bouncing clean off of shoulder pads than nice catches yesterday. Jimmy had one of those clunkers. He wasnt forcing it to Graham at all in my view. They didnt have enough plays in any drive through the first 3 quarters to force it to anyone.
The biggest take-away for me was the Graham stayed on the field on the very last garbage drive of the game despite being slightly banged up the previous drive. If injuries were of any concern at all, he wouldnt have played that last drive.
Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
I am in the same boat! Have Gronk and Graham in one league I was lucky to make it in and will be facing another owner in another playoff with same dilemma. So do we actually sit graham out if the flex? What level of flex replacement would you use?
Dondante
Footballguy
At Chicago? He could have gotten hit by a bus last night and I'd still start him vs the Bears. I don't have a dog in this fight, but damn that defense is worthless.
zamboni
Footballguy
That's what most thought about Carolina yesterday. Playing the matchup game is guesswork at best.
packersfan
Footballguy
Same defense that prevented Dez (and Witten) from going off. I agree their D stinks but the Saints are a mess right now. I don't think I could bring myself to bench Graham if I had him but I'm not sure the matchups mean a whole lot right now. Lotta big names haven't come through the last couple of weeks with great matchups.
massraider
Footballguy
Next week is a crappiest team contest between NO and CHI.
It's on the road, which isn't good for NO, but until that Oh-fer against PITT, Graham's numbers on the road this year have been great.
Had 11 targets yesterday.
Tough to predict, but really, do people have that many better options at TE?
It's on the road, which isn't good for NO, but until that Oh-fer against PITT, Graham's numbers on the road this year have been great.
Had 11 targets yesterday.
Tough to predict, but really, do people have that many better options at TE?
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Both.
Someday the Saints will realize that force-feeding Jimmy Graham in triple coverage isn't how you win games. I thought they grasped that last week at Pittsburgh.
Doug B
Footballguy
PFF:
Jimmy Graham, TE: -4.0
Breakdown: Much was made of Jimmy Graham’s lack of stats in two of the last three weeks of play, but in this game much of that blame falls squarely on his own shoulders. He was as guilty as anybody on the Saints of checking out mentally from this game and it resulted in three dropped passes, matching the number he caught in the game.
Signature Stat: Graham was targeted 10 times, matching his third-highest figure of the season.
Jimmy Graham, TE: -4.0
Breakdown: Much was made of Jimmy Graham’s lack of stats in two of the last three weeks of play, but in this game much of that blame falls squarely on his own shoulders. He was as guilty as anybody on the Saints of checking out mentally from this game and it resulted in three dropped passes, matching the number he caught in the game.
Signature Stat: Graham was targeted 10 times, matching his third-highest figure of the season.
IheartGuinness
Footballguy
Gottabesweet
Footballguy
Is he even going to play is the question? Monday start kills fantasy owners. I thought he left with about 3 minutes or so after dropping the ball after a tough hit on the sideline.
shadyridr
Footballguy
no he didn't
zamboni
Footballguy
His down season looks not so bad only due to the 9 TDs and the fact that the TE landscape has really dropped from where it was a few years ago.
Still, he's been far surpassed in yards and to a lesser degree, catches, by Gronk, Bennett and Olsen. Even Delanie Walker has more receiving yards, and Graham is barely ahead of the oft-underutilized rookie Kelce.
Based on expectations, I'd say that's a bad year..
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steveski
Footballguy
Those were supposed to be his rebound numbers this week. I guess we'll have to settle with 12/160/4 next week.
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Golden Gopher
Footballguy
Started the season (in a league with TE-friendly scoring) with Graham, Julius, and Allen (and we can start two). It's funny how quickly things can change... the TE position is looking relatively bleak for me right now. 
Unless circumstances greatly change, I'm rolling with him next week. Not sure if I'd start Thomas (or Allen) at my flex or not. Depends on what other options (at RB/WR) I have (haven't looked too closely at the matchups yet). But, more than likely, I will stick with just one TE (Graham). There just aren't a lot of "sure thing" TE's right now, and certainly not on my waiver wire. The only way I'd sit Graham is if I have a sure-fire stud to take his spot (Gronk, or MAYBE somebody like Olsen). Otherwise, I think you plug Graham in, and hope for the best. Worst case, you get very little from him (like half the other TE's out there). Best case, he's back to normal (which is like having an extra RB/WR in your lineup).
As for the Saints, I think it's pretty evident that this is not the Saints of old, where you could consider them to be one of the most high-powered offenses in the league. They are in dissaray right now, on both sides of the ball. I'm not sure how they managed to beat Pittsburgh last week (other than that the Steelers are not exactly a model of consistency themselves), but the Saints were downright terrible yesterday. Sadly, I still like their chances of making the playoffs, based on their remaining schedule.
Unless circumstances greatly change, I'm rolling with him next week. Not sure if I'd start Thomas (or Allen) at my flex or not. Depends on what other options (at RB/WR) I have (haven't looked too closely at the matchups yet). But, more than likely, I will stick with just one TE (Graham). There just aren't a lot of "sure thing" TE's right now, and certainly not on my waiver wire. The only way I'd sit Graham is if I have a sure-fire stud to take his spot (Gronk, or MAYBE somebody like Olsen). Otherwise, I think you plug Graham in, and hope for the best. Worst case, you get very little from him (like half the other TE's out there). Best case, he's back to normal (which is like having an extra RB/WR in your lineup).
As for the Saints, I think it's pretty evident that this is not the Saints of old, where you could consider them to be one of the most high-powered offenses in the league. They are in dissaray right now, on both sides of the ball. I'm not sure how they managed to beat Pittsburgh last week (other than that the Steelers are not exactly a model of consistency themselves), but the Saints were downright terrible yesterday. Sadly, I still like their chances of making the playoffs, based on their remaining schedule.
Buck Bradcanon
Footballguy
Mid to late first round draft pick in redrafts. In FF, I hate worrying about stuff you're not supposed to have to worry about. 
Mr. Know-It-All
Footballguy
11 targets, 3 receptions. I did not watch the game and assume some of those targets were poorly thrown, but that is a HORRIBLE ratio for a stud reciever.
Maelstrom
Footballguy
Yup, this is what I've heard as well. Now the question is, do I have someone better for my flex spot or not, as I traded for Gronk earlier in the year, so my TE spot is fine. Any of my bench would be a better option than the last 2 weeks, but still not sure that should be expected going forward.
Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
Have Gronk in at TE. Can bench Graham for Evans, Crowell or Benjamin. I traded Gio for Graham early on in the season.
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Gvindy
Footballguy
If I was favored to win, I'd probably play Crowell. Swinging for the fences maybe Evans. I feel best about Crowell after seeing what Bell did to CIN.
well, he was killing it until these last 2 games, and thats with injury causing him to not produce for 2 other games. i mean, hes still on pace for 80/800/11 despite injury spoiling 2 games. lets see how he closes out the season before signaling his death.
