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Teenagers - A support thread (1 Viewer)

Been a bit since I updated and it’s been a rough time. She still loves me, we hang out a lot and everything but whatever magic I had to make her believe she could overcome her problems has dissipated. The trauma and chaotic upbringing is just too much right now. It’s still way way better than when I found her but I am worried about where she is headed in life.

My wife thinks I should put my foot down more and tell if she’s not doing what she needs to do, I won’t talk to her or won’t hang out with her. To me, if I’m her dad (which all basically accept) then that seems cruel and neglectful. I mean I’m not going to spend a bunch of money doing fun things she wants all the time but I still want to get dinner and watch movies and talk about her life. I get my wife’s idea but I just don’t agree with it. What do you guys think?
With all respect to your wife, I think she is wrong. An ultimatum like that will absolutely echo the abandonment and abuse she has experienced in the past even though it would be very different. Kids at this age don't separate things like that. I don't see it happening and could very well severely damage your relationship.

However, being the father figure, you can't just be the friend that listens and is there for her always because that is ignoring the 'authority' figure that a father is. Kids, and I think especially girls, crave having someone that will sternly tell them that they need to stop doing whatever. My guess is that you may have been avoiding doing some 'authority' because of her background and your wife is reacting to that, though I think her solution is way too far and not a good fit for her.

In a 'normal' father/daughter relationship, there is the options to enforce through actions like grounding them or taking away a phone (oh my, you would think their life was over if you take their phone away the way they react to that). That 'enforcement' allows for a better conversation later. I am not sure how that plays out in your situation since she doesn't live with you and you are not the legal guardian (unless I missed something that that is in error). I don't have a solution for you on it but I do think you need to figure out a way to be the FULL father figure to her rather than just the warm/fuzzy always there for you side of being a father.
 
Been a bit since I updated and it’s been a rough time. She still loves me, we hang out a lot and everything but whatever magic I had to make her believe she could overcome her problems has dissipated. The trauma and chaotic upbringing is just too much right now. It’s still way way better than when I found her but I am worried about where she is headed in life.

My wife thinks I should put my foot down more and tell if she’s not doing what she needs to do, I won’t talk to her or won’t hang out with her. To me, if I’m her dad (which all basically accept) then that seems cruel and neglectful. I mean I’m not going to spend a bunch of money doing fun things she wants all the time but I still want to get dinner and watch movies and talk about her life. I get my wife’s idea but I just don’t agree with it. What do you guys think?
With all respect to your wife, I think she is wrong. An ultimatum like that will absolutely echo the abandonment and abuse she has experienced in the past even though it would be very different. Kids at this age don't separate things like that. I don't see it happening and could very well severely damage your relationship.

However, being the father figure, you can't just be the friend that listens and is there for her always because that is ignoring the 'authority' figure that a father is. Kids, and I think especially girls, crave having someone that will sternly tell them that they need to stop doing whatever. My guess is that you may have been avoiding doing some 'authority' because of her background and your wife is reacting to that, though I think her solution is way too far and not a good fit for her.

In a 'normal' father/daughter relationship, there is the options to enforce through actions like grounding them or taking away a phone (oh my, you would think their life was over if you take their phone away the way they react to that). That 'enforcement' allows for a better conversation later. I am not sure how that plays out in your situation since she doesn't live with you and you are not the legal guardian (unless I missed something that that is in error). I don't have a solution for you on it but I do think you need to figure out a way to be the FULL father figure to her rather than just the warm/fuzzy always there for you side of being a father.
Much appreciated and I generally agree with you. You hit the nail on the head, I don’t have any real consequences I can provide. Can’t take the phone or even force her into therapy. Though I’m going to start pushing therapy again because they finally got her back on health insurance. It’s a frustrating situation because I think if we both could, we would have her living with my wife and I but there’s just a bunch of reasons that won’t happen.
 
Been a bit since I updated and it’s been a rough time. She still loves me, we hang out a lot and everything but whatever magic I had to make her believe she could overcome her problems has dissipated. The trauma and chaotic upbringing is just too much right now. It’s still way way better than when I found her but I am worried about where she is headed in life.

My wife thinks I should put my foot down more and tell if she’s not doing what she needs to do, I won’t talk to her or won’t hang out with her. To me, if I’m her dad (which all basically accept) then that seems cruel and neglectful. I mean I’m not going to spend a bunch of money doing fun things she wants all the time but I still want to get dinner and watch movies and talk about her life. I get my wife’s idea but I just don’t agree with it. What do you guys think?
With all respect to your wife, I think she is wrong. An ultimatum like that will absolutely echo the abandonment and abuse she has experienced in the past even though it would be very different. Kids at this age don't separate things like that. I don't see it happening and could very well severely damage your relationship.

However, being the father figure, you can't just be the friend that listens and is there for her always because that is ignoring the 'authority' figure that a father is. Kids, and I think especially girls, crave having someone that will sternly tell them that they need to stop doing whatever. My guess is that you may have been avoiding doing some 'authority' because of her background and your wife is reacting to that, though I think her solution is way too far and not a good fit for her.

In a 'normal' father/daughter relationship, there is the options to enforce through actions like grounding them or taking away a phone (oh my, you would think their life was over if you take their phone away the way they react to that). That 'enforcement' allows for a better conversation later. I am not sure how that plays out in your situation since she doesn't live with you and you are not the legal guardian (unless I missed something that that is in error). I don't have a solution for you on it but I do think you need to figure out a way to be the FULL father figure to her rather than just the warm/fuzzy always there for you side of being a father.
Much appreciated and I generally agree with you. You hit the nail on the head, I don’t have any real consequences I can provide. Can’t take the phone or even force her into therapy. Though I’m going to start pushing therapy again because they finally got her back on health insurance. It’s a frustrating situation because I think if we both could, we would have her living with my wife and I but there’s just a bunch of reasons that won’t happen.
Yea, it is a hard dynamic to deal with. The only thing I can think of is trying to be stern and clear on what she needs to do (therapy, avoiding destructive behavior, etc) while still delivering the love and and access to you that she has.
 
I'm stuck in a social media downward spiral with my 13 year old daughter. Overall I hate what social media is doing to the younger generation. My daughter got a phone from her grandfather (who never cleared it with us) before I would have given her a phone. We put on some parental controls to start, but they were not enough. Over the years she's become smarter with accessing social media and has talked her mom into allowing more access than I'd like.

Part of the problem is that my wife at times will prioritize being her friend over being her parent. My daughter wants to be the popular girl, the mean girl, gossips and is just boy crazy. She lives for the drama, but can't take what the drama brings back. I've tried countless times to reason with her and explain to her what she's really doing, but it all falls on deaf ears. She's emotional, moody and just not fun to be around at times. My wife tells me that I don't know what its like to be a teenage girl, so I just need to give her space...

We've taken away her phone in the past for things she's done and she started to self harm. We tried to get a therapist involved, but that ended poorly because the only after school opening within 30 miles was with a young lady who was fresh out of college, and it was obvious she wasn't equipped to handle the situation.

The drama at her middle school got so bad we moved her to a Christan Private school for a fresh start and it helped for a while, but she's falling back into the same bad habits. Getting on social media at home, talks bad about people and its causing real world problems.

Last night my wife took her to her first practice for travelling volleyball and turns out a girl from her old school that can't stand her is on the team. She tired to quit the team right then and there, but my wife forced her to stay and practice. It apparently got super ugly there with my daughter calling my wife a "B**ch" and that she "F-ing hates her". They get home from practice and slam their doors.

My wife then starts googling therapist because she's all bent out of shape and now willing to go to a place with openings during the school day. I'm firmly against that as a first option. We start to bicker as I see a couple root causes for this behavior and I'm being ignored or my ideas (like taking away her phone) are "not realistic".

I feel bad for my daughter, but she's helplessly stuck in this social media cycle and I don't know how to break her out of it.
 
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My wife then starts googling therapist because she's all bent out of shape and now willing to go to a place with openings during the school day. I'm firmly against that as a first option. We start to bicker as I see a couple route causes for this behavior and I'm being ignored or my ideas (like taking away her phone) are "not realistic".

I feel bad for my daughter, but she's helplessly stuck in this social media cycle and I don't know how to break her out of it.
Man, sorry to hear this. When you have social media issues combining with 13 year old female hormones, it's a powder keg.

I selected this snippet from your paragraph and bolded that one line only to say this: when it comes to getting help to someone an appointment during the school day shouldn't be a deterrent. You take an appointment any time you can get it with a qualified person, especially now when it seems all good health care people are hard to get in to see.

And especially something like this? To me that is a get her help at all costs, no matter the timing. Classes and tests can be made up.
 
I'm stuck in a social media downward spiral with my 13 year old daughter. Overall I hate what social media is doing to the younger generation. My daughter got a phone from her grandfather (who never cleared it with us) before I would have given her a phone. We put on some parental controls to start, but they were not enough. Over the years she's become smarter with accessing social media and has talked her mom into allowing more access than I'd like.

Part of the problem is that my wife at times will prioritize being her friend over being her parent. My daughter wants to be the popular girl, the mean girl, gossips and is just boy crazy. She lives for the drama, but can't take what the drama brings back. I've tried countless times to reason with her and explain to her what she's really doing, but it all falls on deaf ears. She's emotional, moody and just not fun to be around at times. My wife tells me that I don't know what its like to be a teenage girl, so I just need to give her space...

We've taken away her phone in the past for things she's done and she started to self harm. We tried to get a therapist involved, but that ended poorly because the only after school opening within 30 miles was with a young lady who was fresh out of college, and it was obvious she wasn't equipped to handle the situation.

The drama at her middle school got so bad we moved her to a Christan Private school for a fresh start and it helped for a while, but she's falling back into the same bad habits. Getting on social media at home, talks bad about people and its causing real world problems.

Last night my wife took her to her first practice for travelling volleyball and turns out a girl from her old school that can't stand her. She tired to quit the team right then and there, but my wife forced her to stay and practice. It apparently got super ugly there with my daughter calling my wife a "B**ch" and that she "F-ing hates her". They get home from practice and slam their doors.

My wife then starts googling therapist because she's all bent out of shape and now willing to go to a place with openings during the school day. I'm firmly against that as a first option. We start to bicker as I see a couple route causes for this behavior and I'm being ignored or my ideas (like taking away her phone) are "not realistic".

I feel bad for my daughter, but she's helplessly stuck in this social media cycle and I don't know how to break her out of it.

I’m sorry you’re going through this. As a father of two “grown” daughters- my best advice is just to hold on tight and keep preaching your values, but don’t be controlling or overbearing.

Their hormones are raging and they practically lose their minds from 12 to roughly 16 or 17. Middle school is the absolute worst time of your parental life.

Godspeed fellow Dad!
 
The last thing I would ever do is let some lunatic psychiatrist lead my daughters down a path of mental illness. I’ve seen several of my daughter’s friends go from perfectly normal teenage girls to whacked out anxiety, ridden, disasters.

I would exhaust every resource before doing that.

Just my :2cents:
 
My wife then starts googling therapist because she's all bent out of shape and now willing to go to a place with openings during the school day. I'm firmly against that as a first option. We start to bicker as I see a couple route causes for this behavior and I'm being ignored or my ideas (like taking away her phone) are "not realistic".

I feel bad for my daughter, but she's helplessly stuck in this social media cycle and I don't know how to break her out of it.
Man, sorry to hear this. When you have social media issues combining with 13 year old female hormones, it's a powder keg.

I selected this snippet from your paragraph and bolded that one line only to say this: when it comes to getting help to someone an appointment during the school day shouldn't be a deterrent. You take an appointment any time you can get it with a qualified person, especially now when it seems all good health care people are hard to get in to see.

And especially something like this? To me that is a get her help at all costs, no matter the timing. Classes and tests can be made up.
I appreciate the feedback. I'm concerned with her missing school on a weekly basis for something that I believe is within our control. It may be trending towards being out of our control, but I don't know. I think she's manipulating the situation when we threaten to take away social media and her response is that she'll go back to self harm. I feel like it's a threat and it works on her mom.
 
My wife then starts googling therapist because she's all bent out of shape and now willing to go to a place with openings during the school day. I'm firmly against that as a first option. We start to bicker as I see a couple route causes for this behavior and I'm being ignored or my ideas (like taking away her phone) are "not realistic".

I feel bad for my daughter, but she's helplessly stuck in this social media cycle and I don't know how to break her out of it.
Man, sorry to hear this. When you have social media issues combining with 13 year old female hormones, it's a powder keg.

I selected this snippet from your paragraph and bolded that one line only to say this: when it comes to getting help to someone an appointment during the school day shouldn't be a deterrent. You take an appointment any time you can get it with a qualified person, especially now when it seems all good health care people are hard to get in to see.

And especially something like this? To me that is a get her help at all costs, no matter the timing. Classes and tests can be made up.
I appreciate the feedback. I'm concerned with her missing school on a weekly basis for something that I believe is within our control. It may be trending towards being out of our control, but I don't know. I think she's manipulating the situation when we threaten to take away social media and her response is that she'll go back to self harm. I feel like it's a threat and it works on her mom.

I feel confident and saying that you have the right mentality. The self harm thing is real, but it can also be twisted and use for manipulation. Our youngest daughter tortured my wife with that **** and it angered me every time because I knew what was going on.

The self harming thing is because they don’t have a way to release their frustration and it would shock you to find out how many of them do it, especially the girls.

It is a fine line between caring, but not feeding the behavior. If your daughter finds out she can get her away by threatening to harm herself - the manipulation only gets worse from there.
 
I would also add: trying to reason with a 13 year old teenager is a waste of time. One of the best pieces of advice I ever received was from my brother:

"let them have their rage and anger moments. that's the hormones talking. after about 20 minutes go back to their room, and just say something like: "hey, we know you're frustrated. we also know that you are dealing with a lot, and at your age hormones come into play and make us do and say things. just know me and your mom support you and just want to help you."

And you have to be calm and rational and don't try to "win" these arguments. But at the same time, there does have to be consequences to every action.
 
The last thing I would ever do is let some lunatic psychiatrist lead my daughters down a path of mental illness. I’ve seen several of my daughter’s friends go from perfectly normal teenage girls to whacked out anxiety, ridden, disasters.

I would exhaust every resource before doing that.

Just my :2cents:
We would want a consultation with the person first to see what they are all about. Probably be in the room for family sessions to start as well.

I hate sounding like I'm putting all the blame on social media, but I know my daughter is getting things in her head from somewhere. She's the one asking for it now and she's started self diagnosing herself with things like seasonal depression disorder and ADHD because she finds school boring.
 
Also, you’re not alone. Most people put on a big show, but we all have fights and arguments at home and we all act a little bit childish when we’re all alone with our family. Trust me, all your peers are going through the same thing and sometimes much worse.
Yeah, this. My 16 year is a great kid, but home is his safe place to dump out a lot of the frustrations from school, work, hockey, whatever. Kids these days feel they need to be perfect in all settings and when it goes awry, they aren't equipped yet to handle all of it rationally. They need their safe place to vent. And as parents we have to sit and take it and let them get it out. After that happens we can usually have a calm discussion.
 
My wife then starts googling therapist because she's all bent out of shape and now willing to go to a place with openings during the school day. I'm firmly against that as a first option. We start to bicker as I see a couple route causes for this behavior and I'm being ignored or my ideas (like taking away her phone) are "not realistic".

I feel bad for my daughter, but she's helplessly stuck in this social media cycle and I don't know how to break her out of it.
Man, sorry to hear this. When you have social media issues combining with 13 year old female hormones, it's a powder keg.

I selected this snippet from your paragraph and bolded that one line only to say this: when it comes to getting help to someone an appointment during the school day shouldn't be a deterrent. You take an appointment any time you can get it with a qualified person, especially now when it seems all good health care people are hard to get in to see.

And especially something like this? To me that is a get her help at all costs, no matter the timing. Classes and tests can be made up.
I appreciate the feedback. I'm concerned with her missing school on a weekly basis for something that I believe is within our control. It may be trending towards being out of our control, but I don't know. I think she's manipulating the situation when we threaten to take away social media and her response is that she'll go back to self harm. I feel like it's a threat and it works on her mom.

I feel confident and saying that you have the right mentality. The self harm thing is real, but it can also be twisted and use for manipulation. Our youngest daughter tortured my wife with that **** and it angered me every time because I knew what was going on.

The self harming thing is because they don’t have a way to release their frustration and it would shock you to find out how many of them do it, especially the girls.

It is a fine line between caring, but not feeding the behavior. If your daughter finds out, she can get her away by threatening to harm herself it only gets worse from there.
Totally agree, and we've seen it with her friends and have heard about it from her other parents. Scary that cutting yourself is almost the "cool thing" to do for some groups of girls.

I was reading that self harm is increasing with teenagers, but hasn't been linked to social media. I theorize it's related though...
 
I would also add: trying to reason with a 13 year old teenager is a waste of time. One of the best pieces of advice I ever received was from my brother:

"let them have their rage and anger moments. that's the hormones talking. after about 20 minutes go back to their room, and just say something like: "hey, we know you're frustrated. we also know that you are dealing with a lot, and at your age hormones come into play and make us do and say things. just know me and your mom support you and just want to help you."

And you have to be calm and rational and don't try to "win" these arguments. But at the same time, there does have to be consequences to every action.
I never went through any of this stuff. What the heck is wrong with me?
 
I screwed up very badly a few weeks ago... well, probably well before that but it came very clear a couple of weeks ago.

I have misophonia.... strong angry/disgusted emotional reaction to hearing people eat with their mouths open, chewing loud, etc. My 13 year old daughter often eats with her mouth open which she blames on her braces, but she did it before she had braces.

Over a weekend, I told her "you know, you look like a cow eating like that". Yes, I realize that is horrible to say and though it was a reaction from misophonia, it was also in jest as my daugther has my sense of humor and almost always gets that I am joking with her. However, the next day, I had got Taco Bell for the kids. They all like the Supreme Crunch Wraps and I got one for each. I did not specifically tell the kids that they each had one... so my bad... but I also didn't expect one of them to eat more than one when I had also had a ton of tacos and other stuff too for them. Well, my daughter ate two which then upset my son who missed out. I said something along the lines of "piglet ate two" meaning 'greedy' but still horrible thing to say. I just didn't think about it. A little later, my daughter was in the bathroom crying and my wife finally got it out of her what she was crying out and then I felt like the biggest dumbest A-hole who is the worst father in the entire world. She took it all, understandably, that I was calling her fat. I should have been more aware of what I was saying and even more so to a 13 year old girl. I had a couple of long conversations with her and apologized and made every effort for her to understand nothing of what I said had anything to do with her or her body.

She is growing into a young woman and has, in a way being proud of her and in a way really not liking it, what would be considered by most boys as a very attractive body. It is awkward to say that as a Father but it is true and I am aware of it... I admit that when we are in public, I am watching boys around her so they don't get out of line. I think I didn't check myself because it never crossed my mind of her being worried about being fat but that was just dumb naive Dad not thinking.

The pressure that these girls are put under by peers, media and social media is tremendous. Sure, I was aware of it but I wasn't thinking about it. Today, I was going through her phone... texts, social media, etc.... which I randomly do as a way to check up on her. I sent a picture of myself on Snapchat to some of her friends to embarrass her and then at some point was trying to type something which was hard for me on her phone and she said something about my fat fingers.... my instant reaction without thinking was "your fat".... which is an old reaction of mine from being a kid that someone says something to me, I say it back to them like that. Immediately, I caught myself though and apologized and made it clear I wasn't calling her fat and it was just a verbal reaction to what she said without me thinking.
 
@Max Power I am sorry you are going through this. I don't really have any wisdom for you or help. I do know that girls/women love drama. All you need to do is look at all the shows that the gals tend to eat up... soap operas, reality tv.... heck, even Hallmark has to have some silly drama in every plot "I can't believe you didn't tell me you were a Prince!" That natural inclination on top of being a teenager in this day and age is rough.

The thing that I have tried to do is find times out of the blue that I can talk to my daughter about healthy relationships. With friends and boys (grrrrrrrrr) and try to shape what she values and seeks out. As much as I fail at it, also trying to model that with her, her mother and others. My wife is pretty drama adverse (though she loves her Hallmark channel) so having that as her mother figure I think has helped us. Honestly, her being in private school, I am convinced, has assisted us so far as well.

My best wishes as you try to navigate this with your daughter.
 
Im going to have to ask 13yo floppinha about cutting tonight. I know about it, but haven't heard either of my kids talk about it as a thing with them or their peers.
 
My wife then starts googling therapist because she's all bent out of shape and now willing to go to a place with openings during the school day. I'm firmly against that as a first option. We start to bicker as I see a couple route causes for this behavior and I'm being ignored or my ideas (like taking away her phone) are "not realistic".

I feel bad for my daughter, but she's helplessly stuck in this social media cycle and I don't know how to break her out of it.
Man, sorry to hear this. When you have social media issues combining with 13 year old female hormones, it's a powder keg.

I selected this snippet from your paragraph and bolded that one line only to say this: when it comes to getting help to someone an appointment during the school day shouldn't be a deterrent. You take an appointment any time you can get it with a qualified person, especially now when it seems all good health care people are hard to get in to see.

And especially something like this? To me that is a get her help at all costs, no matter the timing. Classes and tests can be made up.
I appreciate the feedback. I'm concerned with her missing school on a weekly basis for something that I believe is within our control. It may be trending towards being out of our control, but I don't know. I think she's manipulating the situation when we threaten to take away social media and her response is that she'll go back to self harm. I feel like it's a threat and it works on her mom.

I feel confident and saying that you have the right mentality. The self harm thing is real, but it can also be twisted and use for manipulation. Our youngest daughter tortured my wife with that **** and it angered me every time because I knew what was going on.

The self harming thing is because they don’t have a way to release their frustration and it would shock you to find out how many of them do it, especially the girls.

It is a fine line between caring, but not feeding the behavior. If your daughter finds out, she can get her away by threatening to harm herself it only gets worse from there.
Totally agree, and we've seen it with her friends and have heard about it from her other parents. Scary that cutting yourself is almost the "cool thing" to do for some groups of girls.

I was reading that self harm is increasing with teenagers, but hasn't been linked to social media. I theorize it's related though...

Jonathan Haidt's book absolutely ties increasing rates of teenage self-harm, depression and suicide since 2010 to social media and mobile phones - particularly in adolescent girls. Joe started a thread on it here somewhere. Of course not everyone agrees with Haidt but he's made quite a splash. His recommendation is to have no access to social media or a phone until age 16. I'd be all in on that if everyone else agreed, but without full participation its not possible. I have a 13 year old daughter and there is simply no way for her to be part of school and her sports and other extra-curricular activities without a phone. For example, if she's at a volleyball tournament with her club in a hotel somewhere, everything is organized and communicated over Instagram and messages. Her teachers and coaches all use social media to communicate. She would be completely alone without it. We held out and made her use an old ipod for a year or so but it was embarrassing to her and limited her participation. She was by far the last person to get a phone in her school class and that was an old iphone for her 13th b-day. Its a terrible dilemma that we all have to deal with as best we can. GL to you and your family my friend.
 
The last thing I would ever do is let some lunatic psychiatrist lead my daughters down a path of mental illness. I’ve seen several of my daughter’s friends go from perfectly normal teenage girls to whacked out anxiety, ridden, disasters.

I would exhaust every resource before doing that.

Just my :2cents:
:rolleyes::<_<:

If you disagree, then let’s talk about it.

My stance is that you should try your very best to handle your own house before subbing out your parenting to strangers who have a vested interest in finding things wrong with people as a means to put food on their plate.

Was I a tad hyperbolic in calling all psychiatrists “lunatics”? Yes. Obviously.

I’m not firing from the hip. Ive done counseling. Both marriage and on my own. One of my my kids went through 4 of them. It has it place and can be positive.

I simply think letting a stranger play in the malleable putty that is your child’s adolescent brain is a horrifically risky proposition with potentially life long consequences.

Where do you disagree?
 
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The last thing I would ever do is let some lunatic psychiatrist lead my daughters down a path of mental illness. I’ve seen several of my daughter’s friends go from perfectly normal teenage girls to whacked out anxiety, ridden, disasters.

I would exhaust every resource before doing that.

Just my :2cents:
:rolleyes::<_<:

If you disagree, then let’s talk about it.

My stance is that you should try your very best to handle your own house before subbing out your parenting to strangers who have a vested interest in finding things wrong with people as a means to put food on their plate.

Was I a tad hyperbolic in calling all psychiatrists “lunatics”? Yes. Obviously.

I’m not firing from the hip. Ive done counseling. Both marriage and on my own. One of my my kids went through 4 of them. It has it place and can be positive.

I simply think letting a stranger play in the malleable putty that is your child’s adolescent brain is a horrifically risky proposition with potentially life long consequences.

Where do you disagree?

I want to acknowledge that one of the absolute hardest things to realize as a parent is that we don’t always know what is best for our own children.

You can fairly say that there are some counselors that have made mistakes as long as you are willing to say there are likely just as many parents (% wise) who have also made mistakes.

I don’t think it is as simple as inferring parents are being lazy because they are seeking out help.
 
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The last thing I would ever do is let some lunatic psychiatrist lead my daughters down a path of mental illness. I’ve seen several of my daughter’s friends go from perfectly normal teenage girls to whacked out anxiety, ridden, disasters.

I would exhaust every resource before doing that.

Just my :2cents:
:rolleyes::<_<:

If you disagree, then let’s talk about it.

My stance is that you should try your very best to handle your own house before subbing out your parenting to strangers who have a vested interest in finding things wrong with people as a means to put food on their plate.

Was I a tad hyperbolic in calling all psychiatrists “lunatics”? Yes. Obviously.

I’m not firing from the hip. Ive done counseling. Both marriage and on my own. One of my my kids went through 4 of them. It has it place and can be positive.

I simply think letting a stranger play in the malleable putty that is your child’s adolescent brain is a horrifically risky proposition with potentially life long consequences.

Where do you disagree?
I don’t disagree.

But I want to acknowledge that one of the absolute hardest things to realize as a parent is that we don’t always know what is best for our own children.

You can fairly say that there are some counselors that have made mistakes as long as you are willing to say there are likely just as many parents (% wise) who have also made mistakes.

I don’t think it is as simple as inferring parents are being lazy because they are seeking out help.

I didn’t mean to infer that parents are lazy. God knows we all just want what’s best for them (kids) and I’m not here to judge anyone in this thread. Raising kids is challenging. We all make mistakes as parents and just like life, most of us are just trying to make it through the day as best we can.

I’m having a hard time conveying what I’m trying to say without it sounding callous, but you cannot let hormone raging children take control of your family and have everyone walking around on eggshells. It’s unhealthy for everyone and especially the child.

Taking your child outside of your home and letting somebody else have so much influence on them can have catastrophic results. I find that 95% of psychiatrist/counselors just agree with everything you say. In a world dominated by social media and outside influences kids are essentially walking around being told they have anxiety, a complex, autism, yada yada yada.

Again this is just my two cents, but my philosophy is the same with all this – we can sit on the couch and figure out who touched me or who bullied me or why I behave the way I behave but at the end of the day there is only one option– brush it off and keep rolling. You can absolutely sit down in the dark room and cry yourself to sleep every once in a while, but after that’s done, brush it off and move the **** on. There is no other option. I can also sympathize and understand that works for me and not for others- hence my position on this topic.
 
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I find that 95% of psychiatrist/counselors just agree with everything you say.
As a parent looking to coordinate care for your kid, or in general?

I have no experience with the former, and enough with the latter to 100% disagree.

I won't argue that you've gotten to this place of profound distrust for mental health providers, especially in relation to support for kids. Sucks to get to that place. I would argue that it sounds like you've been stuck seeing some really bad mental health "professionals"
 
Taking your child outside of your home and letting somebody else have so much influence on them can have catastrophic results.
I think you're painting a large field with too broad a brush, but this is a very good point and something that people should keep in mind. A professional talking to a teenager about intimate details of her life has the potential to have a huge influence on her and shouldn't be treated lightly. One should really make sure it's somebody reputable that you can trust and not necessarily go with the first person you find. Also, if one doesn't seem to be helping the situation consider trying somebody else.
 
The last thing I would ever do is let some lunatic psychiatrist lead my daughters down a path of mental illness. I’ve seen several of my daughter’s friends go from perfectly normal teenage girls to whacked out anxiety, ridden, disasters.

I would exhaust every resource before doing that.

Just my :2cents:
:rolleyes::<_<:

If you disagree, then let’s talk about it.

My stance is that you should try your very best to handle your own house before subbing out your parenting to strangers who have a vested interest in finding things wrong with people as a means to put food on their plate.

Was I a tad hyperbolic in calling all psychiatrists “lunatics”? Yes. Obviously.

I’m not firing from the hip. Ive done counseling. Both marriage and on my own. One of my my kids went through 4 of them. It has it place and can be positive.

I simply think letting a stranger play in the malleable putty that is your child’s adolescent brain is a horrifically risky proposition with potentially life long consequences.

Where do you disagree?
I wasn't going to bother to respond as I highly doubt you're at all interested in evaluating your current viewpoint when you're calling physicians "lunatics". Maybe I'm wrong, though. But, more importantly, I'll respond for any others that might be reading what you're writing in hopes of providing information.

I disagree 100% with virtually everything you wrote here.

1) Calling a physician a "lunatic" is incredibly demeaning and insulting. It's not a "tad hyperbolic". It's way over the line.

2) Perhaps you're confusing therapists and psychiatrists. Those are two different entities. So, in case you or others don't know, psychiatrists are MDs or DOs that have gone through medical school and then AT LEAST 3 years of residency to practice. Some do additional fellowships to do child and adolescent psychiatry. In total, that's anywhere from 11-13 years of graduate training (4 year of college, 4 years of medical school, 3 years of residency, and 2 years of fellowship if specializing in child/adolescent psychiatry). They are physicians and they diagnose mental health conditions and prescribe medications that may be necessary.

Therapists usually have completed a master's degree and/or a doctoral degree. However, they do not diagnose and they do not prescribe medications. An equivalent way of thinking about it is seeing an orthopedic doctor for an injury (psychiatrist) who diagnoses and figures out whatever treatments are needed and then may refer you to see a physical therapist (mental health therapist) for weekly/monthly/whatever treatments are recommended.

3) The idea that psychiatrists lead girls from normal girls to "anxiety, ridden disasters" is just absurd. That's the equivalent of suggesting going to see your regular doctor caused you to have high blood pressure or diabetes. It's ridiculous.

4) You can feel like having a "stranger play in the malleable putty that is your child’s adolescent brain is a horrifically risky proposition", but that's another ridiculous take. Mental health professionals LITERALLY save lives of teenage children that are depressed and potentially suicidal.

5) Psychiatrists DO NOT "have a vested interest in finding things wrong with people as a means to put food on their plate". Once again, that's an absurd take. Same way your regular doctor isn't looking for things wrong for their paycheck. That's not how billing even works. And, again, it's insulting to a profession that literally spends over a decade training to help other people.

So, suffice to say, I disagree wholeheartedly with everything you've posted from your original post that I quoted with my reaction and as well as this one. Again, I doubt you're interested in changing your views, but I'll respond once as a courtesy despite your disrespectful post to an entire profession.
 
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Taking your child outside of your home and letting somebody else have so much influence on them can have catastrophic results.
I think you're painting a large field with too broad a brush, but this is a very good point and something that people should keep in mind. A professional talking to a teenager about intimate details of her life has the potential to have a huge influence on her and shouldn't be treated lightly. One should really make sure it's somebody reputable that you can trust and not necessarily go with the first person you find. Also, if one doesn't seem to be helping the situation consider trying somebody else.

Yes! Now pretend like that’s what I said.

I speak Unga Bunga
 
All I know is, we are raising kids that lack the ability to cope. I currently have one who's really struggling in school. Not grades-wise, but just basically doesn't want to be there. Just going to school gives her tremendous anxiety. Her school is a **** show. Lots of bad behaviors. Lots of entitled kids who do whatever they want, with little repercussion. But, life is hard.....I'm with Steady on this......have a mental health day once in a while, and then keep moving forward. That's what are trying to do with our kid. She sees a therapist too.

I truly believe social media, and addiction to screens is a big one here.
 
All I know is, we are raising kids that lack the ability to cope. I currently have one who's really struggling in school. Not grades-wise, but just basically doesn't want to be there. Just going to school gives her tremendous anxiety. Her school is a **** show. Lots of bad behaviors. Lots of entitled kids who do whatever they want, with little repercussion. But, life is hard.....I'm with Steady on this......have a mental health day once in a while, and then keep moving forward. That's what are trying to do with our kid. She sees a therapist too.

I truly believe social media, and addiction to screens is a big one here.
I agree but not just their addiction- their parents addiction. society's addiction.
 
Im going to have to ask 13yo floppinha about cutting tonight. I know about it, but haven't heard either of my kids talk about it as a thing with them or their peers.
Spoke to her about it. She was like... Huh? Sounds like they discussed it in health class briefly last year, but according to her not a thing at her school in her grade at least (8th). She said there's a 9th grader she's noticed who had "strange marks" on her that could be that. I told her we're there to discuss anything if she's ever feeling like she's heading that direction.
 
Good luck to everyone, seems like we are all dealing with some serious stuff. Kind of odd timing but my kid is going to finally actually start therapy in December after me suggesting it for 1.5 years. We shall see how it goes- I just want her to get some tools she can use when she is dealing with her anger. When she is angry, it's hard to get her to snap out of it and get back on track. She's doing pretty well though- got her first job, passing her classes at her new school, made a new best friend she really likes and is having some periods of more consistent sustained eating. We've really been working hard on having clear honest conversation about topics we don't agree on. She was shutting down or lashing out, but now she's getting much better at just talking it out and keeping it polite. I guess I hope therapy builds on that and allows her to expand it to other life relationships. I don't think we are at all looking for some kind of diagnosis or medication. So I don't see the harm in trying.
 
Just a note .... As open and receptive you think you and your child's relationship is (tell me anything, they share all the time)

There are topics/feelings that sometimes feels better/different speaking to a non parent
And it's often the kids of parents who don't like when they have to leave the room so their kid can talk to their doctor alone that end up having things to disclose.
 
Just a note .... As open and receptive you think you and your child's relationship is (tell me anything, they share all the time)

There are topics/feelings that sometimes feels better/different speaking to a non parent
And it's often the kids of parents who don't like when they have to leave the room so their kid can talk to their doctor alone that end up having things to disclose.
Our medical provider always asks a set of questions.... whether it is just me or my kids and me. One of them is "do you feel safe at home?", I always feel it awkward though there is no reason for me to because in a house that a kid would need to say 'yes' wouldn't that same person very likely be in the room with them and preventing them from saying as such? Though when I have accompanied my wife, I have jested once "I don't" and nodded to my wife with the nurse.
 
All I know is, we are raising kids that lack the ability to cope. I currently have one who's really struggling in school.
Just because that's true of your child, doesn't mean that it's true of all or most of them.

Expecting parents to cope with a medical issue that truly is above their pay grade is just not viable.

And the "just move on" thing is insulting to anyone with depression, especially post-partum depression, or any other medical issue. It's like telling someone with a broken leg to walk it off.
 
All I know is, we are raising kids that lack the ability to cope. I currently have one who's really struggling in school. Not grades-wise, but just basically doesn't want to be there. Just going to school gives her tremendous anxiety. Her school is a **** show. Lots of bad behaviors. Lots of entitled kids who do whatever they want, with little repercussion. But, life is hard.....I'm with Steady on this......have a mental health day once in a while, and then keep moving forward. That's what are trying to do with our kid. She sees a therapist too.

I truly believe social media, and addiction to screens is a big one here.
Public schools seem like the Wild Wild West now to me. Not like they were when I was growing up. It seems that everything is about accommodating kids that when we were growing up would not be bent to.... an example of our local high school is a kid that thinks they are a dog, so everything accommodates that including but not limited to them having a collar and leash, water bowl, etc. My daughter went to a teen center place here and there for some summer programs that they had. She told me that she was uncomfortable because there were 'Furries' there. Not one... but multiple. I never, ever, ever had to deal with anything remotely close to that as a kid.

And then the problem kids seem to be accommodated as well versus back when I was a kid... they were not allowed to disrupt and after doing it too many times were sent to the 'troubled kid school' after being expelled from the regular schools. And this coming from a very mild version of a problem kid (class clown type that teachers either loved to death or hated with a burning passion).

I am not sure if it is a lack of ability to cope as it is that kids these days are dealing with much more than we ever did in school and it isn't like Jr High and HS were 'easy' back then. Add in the social media on top of that.... I am amazed at how well some of our kids are navigating the waters these days and certainly can understand those who are having trouble. Pretty much all the studies now show that our kids are struggling with mental/emotional issues in ways that past generations never even had to start to deal with. It is hard for me to even fathom the things that kids these days have to deal with.
 
All I know is, we are raising kids that lack the ability to cope. I currently have one who's really struggling in school.
Just because that's true of your child, doesn't mean that it's true of all or most of them.

Expecting parents to cope with a medical issue that truly is above their pay grade is just not viable.

And the "just move on" thing is insulting to anyone with depression, especially post-partum depression, or any other medical issue. It's like telling someone with a broken leg to walk it off.

Regarding “just move on”…

I said :

“ I can also sympathize and understand that works for me and not for others.”

How is it insulting to you when I acknowledge that it’s how i choose to deal?
 
The last thing I would ever do is let some lunatic psychiatrist lead my daughters down a path of mental illness. I’ve seen several of my daughter’s friends go from perfectly normal teenage girls to whacked out anxiety, ridden, disasters.

I would exhaust every resource before doing that.

Just my :2cents:
:rolleyes::<_<:

If you disagree, then let’s talk about it.

My stance is that you should try your very best to handle your own house before subbing out your parenting to strangers who have a vested interest in finding things wrong with people as a means to put food on their plate.

Was I a tad hyperbolic in calling all psychiatrists “lunatics”? Yes. Obviously.

I’m not firing from the hip. Ive done counseling. Both marriage and on my own. One of my my kids went through 4 of them. It has it place and can be positive.

I simply think letting a stranger play in the malleable putty that is your child’s adolescent brain is a horrifically risky proposition with potentially life long consequences.

Where do you disagree?
I wasn't going to bother to respond as I highly doubt you're at all interested in evaluating your current viewpoint when you're calling physicians "lunatics". Maybe I'm wrong, though. But, more importantly, I'll respond for any others that might be reading what you're writing in hopes of providing information.

I disagree 100% with virtually everything you wrote here.

1) Calling a physician a "lunatic" is incredibly demeaning and insulting. It's not a "tad hyperbolic". It's way over the line.

2) Perhaps you're confusing therapists and psychiatrists. Those are two different entities. So, in case you or others don't know, psychiatrists are MDs or DOs that have gone through medical school and then AT LEAST 3 years of residency to practice. Some do additional fellowships to do child and adolescent psychiatry. In total, that's anywhere from 11-13 years of graduate training (4 year of college, 4 years of medical school, 3 years of residency, and 2 years of fellowship if specializing in child/adolescent psychiatry). They are physicians and they diagnose mental health conditions and prescribe medications that may be necessary.

Therapists usually have completed a master's degree and/or a doctoral degree. However, they do not diagnose and they do not prescribe medications. An equivalent way of thinking about it is seeing an orthopedic doctor for an injury (psychiatrist) who diagnoses and figures out whatever treatments are needed and then may refer you to see a physical therapist (mental health therapist) for weekly/monthly/whatever treatments are recommended.

3) The idea that psychiatrists lead girls from normal girls to "anxiety, ridden disasters" is just absurd. That's the equivalent of suggesting going to see your regular doctor caused you to have high blood pressure or diabetes. It's ridiculous.

4) You can feel like having a "stranger play in the malleable putty that is your child’s adolescent brain is a horrifically risky proposition", but that's another ridiculous take. Mental health professionals LITERALLY save lives of teenage children that are depressed and potentially suicidal.

5) Psychiatrists DO NOT "have a vested interest in finding things wrong with people as a means to put food on their plate". Once again, that's an absurd take. Same way your regular doctor isn't looking for things wrong for their paycheck. That's not how billing even works. And, again, it's insulting to a profession that literally spends over a decade training to help other people.

So, suffice to say, I disagree wholeheartedly with everything you've posted from your original post that I quoted with my reaction and as well as this one. Again, I doubt you're interested in changing your views, but I'll respond once as a courtesy despite your disrespectful post to an entire profession.

I’ll get back to you on this. I wouldn’t have asked you for a dialog if I wasnt interested in one.

Just a busy weekend.

Are you a mental health, professional? I’m asking because you had quite the emotional response to what I would consider a few throwaway lines.
 
All I know is, we are raising kids that lack the ability to cope. I currently have one who's really struggling in school.
Just because that's true of your child, doesn't mean that it's true of all or most of them.

Expecting parents to cope with a medical issue that truly is above their pay grade is just not viable.

And the "just move on" thing is insulting to anyone with depression, especially post-partum depression, or any other medical issue. It's like telling someone with a broken leg to walk it off.

Regarding “just move on”…

I said :

“ I can also sympathize and understand that works for me and not for others.”

How is it insulting to you when I acknowledge that it’s how i choose to deal?
It does imply that this is a viable strategy for everyone. It sort of hints that others are somehow weak.

I'm also concerned that it hurts you.
 
My daughter is 18. She is mostly beyond this misery. But know this, middle school girls are the WORST. Cruel and mean does not even begin to cover it. High school was a little better, but not much. We were always open, honest and fair with her as she rebelled. As all kids do to a certain degree.

My daughter had a friend who did the cutting thing. It was troubling for us, but my daughter was adamant about remaining her friend. We talked about it and didn’t judge. Allowing our kid to tell us what was happening. At one point, the friend hurt themselves after a long period of not doing so. My kid came to us and asked what she should do. We said she should do what she felt was right. So she called the girls mom and told her. And then immediately called her friend and told her that she had told her mom. Pretty proud moment for us.

Speaking to @Max Power take the phone away. Get some help. Missing some school at 13 will not matter in the grand scheme

And It’s ok as parents to admit to not knowing what to do. With the first kid, we are all doing something new, that we’ve never done before, every single day. Cut yourself some slack.
 
dad of 16 and 13 year old girls. this **** feels impossible some days.

there's almost no "right" way to handle things. some days are great and they're just normal.. regular.. conversational and excited to tell me things. then i might blink wrong while they're talking, it gets interpreted as me being "mad at them" and i get told that i have to be careful about how i react because they're girls. asking what i did wrong, or what i can do to not do it wrong just makes things worse.

was having a great day yesterday, asked the oldest to empty the dishwasher (her chore) and it set off drawer and cupboard slamming, moaning and groaning about how her sister doesn't have to do chores (she does, she's just more mindful about completing them) and then her fighting with my wife... my fault.

:shrug:

there's a lot of just listening and letting them talk about school, their interests and drama with friends. i've learned that all they want from me is to listen and agree. they do not like if i ask questions in an attempt to better understand their feelings, thought process, etc. so i'm listening as much as possible.. which, on certain days, gets interpreted as "not caring". it's a catch-22. damned if you do, damned if you don't.

from 0 - 11 or so they were daddy's girls. we did absolutely everything together. all the time. they were around me constantly. everywhere i went, they came with. starting around middle school they started drifting away and it just sucks.

i try to remind myself what an older friend of mine said about his daddy's girls drifting away from middle school until they moved out and how they have come full circle but that feels a long ways off these days. so much going on in their heads, i'm sure, and they lean on mom because she can relate but it gets lonely a lot more these days than it used to.
 
dad of 16 and 13 year old girls. this **** feels impossible some days.

there's almost no "right" way to handle things. some days are great and they're just normal.. regular.. conversational and excited to tell me things. then i might blink wrong while they're talking, it gets interpreted as me being "mad at them" and i get told that i have to be careful about how i react because they're girls. asking what i did wrong, or what i can do to not do it wrong just makes things worse.

was having a great day yesterday, asked the oldest to empty the dishwasher (her chore) and it set off drawer and cupboard slamming, moaning and groaning about how her sister doesn't have to do chores (she does, she's just more mindful about completing them) and then her fighting with my wife... my fault.

:shrug:

there's a lot of just listening and letting them talk about school, their interests and drama with friends. i've learned that all they want from me is to listen and agree. they do not like if i ask questions in an attempt to better understand their feelings, thought process, etc. so i'm listening as much as possible.. which, on certain days, gets interpreted as "not caring". it's a catch-22. damned if you do, damned if you don't.

from 0 - 11 or so they were daddy's girls. we did absolutely everything together. all the time. they were around me constantly. everywhere i went, they came with. starting around middle school they started drifting away and it just sucks.

i try to remind myself what an older friend of mine said about his daddy's girls drifting away from middle school until they moved out and how they have come full circle but that feels a long ways off these days. so much going on in their heads, i'm sure, and they lean on mom because she can relate but it gets lonely a lot more these days than it used to.
Yep. I feel ya’ man.

Seems like I can’t say the right thing to my 16 year old son these days either. Then when I just listen and don’t talk, everyone wonders why I’m so quiet.
 
dad of 16 and 13 year old girls. this **** feels impossible some days.

there's almost no "right" way to handle things. some days are great and they're just normal.. regular.. conversational and excited to tell me things. then i might blink wrong while they're talking, it gets interpreted as me being "mad at them" and i get told that i have to be careful about how i react because they're girls. asking what i did wrong, or what i can do to not do it wrong just makes things worse.

was having a great day yesterday, asked the oldest to empty the dishwasher (her chore) and it set off drawer and cupboard slamming, moaning and groaning about how her sister doesn't have to do chores (she does, she's just more mindful about completing them) and then her fighting with my wife... my fault.

:shrug:

there's a lot of just listening and letting them talk about school, their interests and drama with friends. i've learned that all they want from me is to listen and agree. they do not like if i ask questions in an attempt to better understand their feelings, thought process, etc. so i'm listening as much as possible.. which, on certain days, gets interpreted as "not caring". it's a catch-22. damned if you do, damned if you don't.

from 0 - 11 or so they were daddy's girls. we did absolutely everything together. all the time. they were around me constantly. everywhere i went, they came with. starting around middle school they started drifting away and it just sucks.

i try to remind myself what an older friend of mine said about his daddy's girls drifting away from middle school until they moved out and how they have come full circle but that feels a long ways off these days. so much going on in their heads, i'm sure, and they lean on mom because she can relate but it gets lonely a lot more these days than it used to.

Hang in there GB. I've got two (now adult) daughters and if there's any "advice" I could impart it's just continue to do what you're doing. Continue to "be there" for them. If that's just listening, that's enough. In my opinion, they mostly just need to know you're there and they are loved. Maybe even talking about how they like you to interact. You can let them know you're there for more talking if they'd like but you're most there for them. They get that I think. I can tell you sure the circle back around thing is a real thing. Both my girls are like that with me now. I feel what you mean about it feeling like a long ways off but you can get there. 🙏 :heart:
 
dad of 16 and 13 year old girls. this **** feels impossible some days.

there's almost no "right" way to handle things. some days are great and they're just normal.. regular.. conversational and excited to tell me things. then i might blink wrong while they're talking, it gets interpreted as me being "mad at them" and i get told that i have to be careful about how i react because they're girls. asking what i did wrong, or what i can do to not do it wrong just makes things worse.

was having a great day yesterday, asked the oldest to empty the dishwasher (her chore) and it set off drawer and cupboard slamming, moaning and groaning about how her sister doesn't have to do chores (she does, she's just more mindful about completing them) and then her fighting with my wife... my fault.

:shrug:

there's a lot of just listening and letting them talk about school, their interests and drama with friends. i've learned that all they want from me is to listen and agree. they do not like if i ask questions in an attempt to better understand their feelings, thought process, etc. so i'm listening as much as possible.. which, on certain days, gets interpreted as "not caring". it's a catch-22. damned if you do, damned if you don't.

from 0 - 11 or so they were daddy's girls. we did absolutely everything together. all the time. they were around me constantly. everywhere i went, they came with. starting around middle school they started drifting away and it just sucks.

i try to remind myself what an older friend of mine said about his daddy's girls drifting away from middle school until they moved out and how they have come full circle but that feels a long ways off these days. so much going on in their heads, i'm sure, and they lean on mom because she can relate but it gets lonely a lot more these days than it used to.
Yep. I feel ya’ man.

Seems like I can’t say the right thing to my 16 year old son these days either. Then when I just listen and don’t talk, everyone wonders why I’m so quiet.

Hang in there @ChiefD. 16 is a tough age and like I said above, I think the key is just being there. It may not seem like saying "the right" thing. But it matters a ton that you're there and he knows it.
 
The last thing I would ever do is let some lunatic psychiatrist lead my daughters down a path of mental illness. I’ve seen several of my daughter’s friends go from perfectly normal teenage girls to whacked out anxiety, ridden, disasters.

I would exhaust every resource before doing that.

Just my :2cents:
:rolleyes::<_<:

If you disagree, then let’s talk about it.

My stance is that you should try your very best to handle your own house before subbing out your parenting to strangers who have a vested interest in finding things wrong with people as a means to put food on their plate.

Was I a tad hyperbolic in calling all psychiatrists “lunatics”? Yes. Obviously.

I’m not firing from the hip. Ive done counseling. Both marriage and on my own. One of my my kids went through 4 of them. It has it place and can be positive.

I simply think letting a stranger play in the malleable putty that is your child’s adolescent brain is a horrifically risky proposition with potentially life long consequences.

Where do you disagree?
I wasn't going to bother to respond as I highly doubt you're at all interested in evaluating your current viewpoint when you're calling physicians "lunatics". Maybe I'm wrong, though. But, more importantly, I'll respond for any others that might be reading what you're writing in hopes of providing information.

I disagree 100% with virtually everything you wrote here.

1) Calling a physician a "lunatic" is incredibly demeaning and insulting. It's not a "tad hyperbolic". It's way over the line.

2) Perhaps you're confusing therapists and psychiatrists. Those are two different entities. So, in case you or others don't know, psychiatrists are MDs or DOs that have gone through medical school and then AT LEAST 3 years of residency to practice. Some do additional fellowships to do child and adolescent psychiatry. In total, that's anywhere from 11-13 years of graduate training (4 year of college, 4 years of medical school, 3 years of residency, and 2 years of fellowship if specializing in child/adolescent psychiatry). They are physicians and they diagnose mental health conditions and prescribe medications that may be necessary.

Therapists usually have completed a master's degree and/or a doctoral degree. However, they do not diagnose and they do not prescribe medications. An equivalent way of thinking about it is seeing an orthopedic doctor for an injury (psychiatrist) who diagnoses and figures out whatever treatments are needed and then may refer you to see a physical therapist (mental health therapist) for weekly/monthly/whatever treatments are recommended.

3) The idea that psychiatrists lead girls from normal girls to "anxiety, ridden disasters" is just absurd. That's the equivalent of suggesting going to see your regular doctor caused you to have high blood pressure or diabetes. It's ridiculous.

4) You can feel like having a "stranger play in the malleable putty that is your child’s adolescent brain is a horrifically risky proposition", but that's another ridiculous take. Mental health professionals LITERALLY save lives of teenage children that are depressed and potentially suicidal.

5) Psychiatrists DO NOT "have a vested interest in finding things wrong with people as a means to put food on their plate". Once again, that's an absurd take. Same way your regular doctor isn't looking for things wrong for their paycheck. That's not how billing even works. And, again, it's insulting to a profession that literally spends over a decade training to help other people.

So, suffice to say, I disagree wholeheartedly with everything you've posted from your original post that I quoted with my reaction and as well as this one. Again, I doubt you're interested in changing your views, but I'll respond once as a courtesy despite your disrespectful post to an entire profession.

As I said, If I wasn't interested in discussing it, I wouldn't have asked you, cause that would be something an insane person would do. As far as your response to my invitation to have a conversation, it seems to me you took it personally and reacted emotionally. You then choosing to enter into a invited conversation by openly lowering yourself only to talk past me to other readers is a wild way to start.

1) OK. Did anybody get hurt?

2) I do appreciate you taking the time to explain the differences between the two and I did learn a little. I don't appreciate the way you talked down to me but I've gotten over it already and it doesn't continue to bother me. I'm not emotionally enraged at you because I perceived you to be rude.

3, 4 and 5 are all the same. I already attempted to tell you that I way over simplified and was being hyperbolic. Not sure what else to tell you. I dont have the patience to have to curtail my views and words to your sense of whats appropriate. You are also pretending like there arent too many unqualified folks in that industry and its disservice to the good ones. Getting a degree doesn't make you competent at your profession. If Im being "ridiculous and "out of line" for suggesting that at worst, most therapists/psychiatrists are bad, youre doing the opposite by just inherently believing that just because theyre certified, that theyre qualified.


I doubt you're interested in changing your views, but I'll respond once as a courtesy despite your disrespectful post to an entire profession.

It's not that Im not "interested in changing my views" (which is an incredibly odd and presumptuous phrase,) its that I have my beliefs and you have yours. Im certainly not mad at you for anything you have said, done or think, because it doesnt have any impact on me.

Nothing you wrote changed my opinion and while Im not exactly "interested in changing my opinions" - to match yours, because I think youre wrong. Nothing you listed would qualify a under 40ish person who has never raised children of their own to be advising children or parents of children about anything. if you are indeed in the mental health profession, the only thing that would explain your reaction, you sorta proved my point.

These are MY opinions for MY family. You do you, Im certainly not going to be all butt hurt about it. Hope you can lower yourself to continue the conversation with a troglodyte like myself.
 
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