Great post. The 2000 New York Yankees: Posada, Tino, Knoblauch, Brosius, Jeter, Bernie, O'Neill, Spencer/Ledee/Justice.....Clemens, Pettitte, Cone, El Duque, NeagleThat team had 4 all-stars: Jeter, Bernie, Rivera, and Posada. That was an awesome baseball team.erikf08 said:
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
Teixeira To Yanks (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter RBM
- Start date
...really?ETA: Do you think revenue sharing is necessary?
Last edited by a moderator:
TitusIII
Footballguy
I'm all for as level of a playing field as possible in professional sports. Since all athletes are not created equal, at least we should give KC the same chance of signing an A-Rod as a NY team. It's pretty much a joke, but it 'aint changing due to the power of the player's union. Why follow the Royals/Pirates/Nationals/Brewers? Your team is just a training club for the Yankees/Red Sox/Dodgers/Angels/Cubs....
Michael Brown
Footballguy
Are you suggesting that my opinion is wrong? Because that's impossible. Koya was saying that Yankee fans "are" this and "are" that. I merely responded to them, because as a Yankee fan I can speak to that. You are an Orioles fan so it's kind of difficult for you to speak for Yankee fans (which is what this aspect of the thread was about).avoiding injuries said:
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
I know Koya pretty well and IMO he knows Yankee fans pretty well. 
Last edited by a moderator:
Koya
Footballguy
Are we talking about the same NY? Patience is not exactly our virtue here when it comes to sports.
Michael Brown
Footballguy
But see, you're mixing up fans with the front office. As a fan, I'll go nuts if the Yankees win a World Series over the next 5 years. The front office might look like fools if they don't win one (or your requirement of two) but I don't care about that. Reason? I'm not them. I'm not making the call on who to sign or draft or anything. I'm just rooting for them once I see who is there. Big difference. So you're wrong about there being no upside. There's huge upside. If they win the World Series, I am happy...simple as that.Your post sounds like the worst of Yankee fans in the late 90's/early 00's. The guys who would proclaim "With Mussina on the team now there's no way we can lose. Just start engraving the rings now!"These are the guys who expected and assumed a victory was in-hand before each season even began...to the point that by 2003, we were already hearing things from the media like, "The Yankees, who haven't won a World Series in three years..."Koya said:Hey, you can't expect a Yanks fan NOT to be defensive. As noted, there is ZERO upside unless the yanks win AT LEAST 2 rings over the next five years. Anything short is failure, and one ring would be pretty much average.So, they can spew long posts as much as they wish, but the reality is the same... win it and you have merely done what you should do, even in baseball where nothing can be taken for granted. Anything short and the Yanks look like fools for once again outspending everyone by a long, long ways and once again coming up short.avoiding injuries said:
Mr. Know-It-All
Footballguy
I think the idea behind revenue sharing is good in that if the game becomes too uncompetitive, then the small to mid markets dry up due to apathy. Unfortunately, the small to mid market owners for the most part don't use revenue sharing (payroll tax) as a means to compete. Where do you want the best teams - probably in the places with the biggest markets, there is nothing inherently wrong with the haves having an advantage. Location, location, location.Where it goes wrong is the overall product suffers when small market teams roll out garbage lineups and then wonder why fans aren't flocking through the turnstiles.
Steelers4Life
Footballguy
The thing is, small market teams would be stupid to use those dollars and immediately raise payroll. The ONLY way the small market teams will ever compete is by developing talent, and the best way to develop talent is to invest in the minor leagues, foreign countries, and player development. But the spending of that money isn't clearly visibile and the result of that spending take years to come. Those teams ARE trying to compete. But adding a couple million dollars to a payroll won't do nearly as much as increasing their ability to develop talent, because either way, most of those teams are more than one or two players away. When the Yankees are spending over 30% more than the Red Sox, and twice as much as 2/3 of the league, spending an extra couple million dollars won't do anything. If the Pirates raise their payroll just for the sake of raising it by signing mediocre and poor veterans who won't do a damn to rebuild the franchise, I'd be more pissed. It seems like the current ownership group will be making some better decisions on that stuff though. I'd rather see this team rip everything apart and build from scratch with minor leaguers than sign free agents who won't put people in the seats or add wins to the team.People complain that there should be a salary floor, but that's ridiculous unless there's also TOTAL revenue sharing and a salary cap, too. The Yankees payroll obviously doesn't guarantee them anything but competitiveness unless they make a TON of poor decisions. But it's not right that the small market teams get to compete with each other to be that team that makes a run with a lower payroll so that the teams like the Yankees and Red Sox can compete and/or win every year and point to them and say, "See, it can be done!"
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
No one said your opinion is wrong, becasue we all know that is impossible.When you refer to "real" baseball fans, as you did twice in your post, I don't think you realize the enormous difference between fans of the Yankee's and fans of just about any other team. It's completely different.
I also think your argument of the old Yankee teams not winning every World Series, or [gasp] not making the World Series some years shows how different it is.
I am fine if we simply agree to disagree here.
Koya
Footballguy
I will say this with authority - there is no group of fans that are more out of touch with the reality that most fans face than yankee fans. Now, Yanks fans come in many shapes - you have your true, diehard, good baseball fans. The ones that can tell you who the SS was before Jeter... and before that guy (whomever that guy was, cant recall but then again, Im not a yanks fan). The ones that wore yanks caps not in the late 90's, but in the 80's - proudly. Not the ones that had Mets caps in the 80's and somewhere around the strike year, suddenly a yanks cap appeared. Then you have the doosh fan that really just doesnt get it. Was raised a yanks fan, but when they are good (like they have been for 15 years), its a beating on the chest, look how great we are, blinders on to the realities of the game, the payroll and all else. In many ways, this is the most annoying fan of all - the meathead fan. Hell, even the bandwagoners, which make up 30-40% of the yanks fan base (and its not the yanks fault, theve been very good... and those 40% would be wearing a mets cap if they had success as well, but they suck nuts every year) are easier to deal with than the meatheads who don't even recognize what is really going on in baseball.Now, Im not saying this poster is a meathead fan, but I can say this - these meatheads are pretty damn far from a "real baseball fan" - and in many ways, are anything but.
Tremendous Upside
Footballguy
Generalizing ANY fanbase in its totality seems pretty absurd
It may be romantic to characterize the "true," "real," or "long suffering" fans of a team, but the reality is that just about every sports team has ######## fans, bandwagon fans when they are doing well, people who have been fans for a long time, etc
It may be romantic to characterize the "true," "real," or "long suffering" fans of a team, but the reality is that just about every sports team has ######## fans, bandwagon fans when they are doing well, people who have been fans for a long time, etc
Michael Brown
Footballguy
I've mentioned more than a few times on this board that I can't stand a large percentage of Yankee fans. A good percentage of them are pains in the ### and give a bad name to the rest of us. So I agree with you guys that there are plenty of bad apples. Now there are plenty of bad apples with a lot of teams, but there tends to be a higher proportion for teams that have enjoyed some modicum of success.I just don't consider those people "real" fans. I consider myself a real fan. And that's why I don't agree with the assessment that we real fans won't enjoy a season if the team wins. WE know what's going on and WE understand what it takes to win and WE know that it's not a birthright to go to the WS. That's all I was saying. The 50% of the fans who oppose this viewpoint are not, in my opinion, real fans of anything except latching on to the team du jour and needing to associate themselves with winners.
Spike
Footballguy
(And I'm a Red Sox fan.)
Capella
Footballguy
Really? I guess I just don't understand why. As a Yanks fan, you'll never get to experience that "oh my god, they're in the hunt" and the "holy crap they can actually do this" thrill that Rays fans had this season. Never. It's impossible. You'll never get to follow prospects rising up through the system to lead you to the World Series. Look at your team. It's gross.ARod came up from SeattleTeix came up from TexasDamon came up from KCNady from someone else (Mets?)CC came up from ClevelandSwisher from OaklandBurnett from FloridaMatsui was a Japanese FAHow can you get excited about this? I know free agency affects sports, but look at how the Rockies, Rays and to even a (much lesser) extent the way the Red Sox did it and tell me THAT'S not something to go nuts over. Watching your overbloated team with a ridiculous payroll and a bunch of free agents you never followed before they signed doesn't really sound like a blast to me. It's not like kids are going to be hanging posters of "Yankee Legend Mark Teixiera" anytime soon.I guess I just don't get it. Your mileage may vary though.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
On a related note, IIRC I thought I heard that the year the Colts won the SB all 22 starters on offense and defense had only played for Indy. I'm not sure if that's accurate, but it does say a lot for growing your team from within.
Last edited by a moderator:
Tremendous Upside
Footballguy
Cappy, I understand your argument, and it does seem logical and rational, but you also have to understand that there isn't really much about fanatical rooting for sports teams that involves logic or rationality
I am a Yankee fan, plain and simple. My dad was a Yankee fan, and I have been one all my life. Went through some lean times with them in the 80s and early 90s, celebrated their WS victories in the late 90s and 2000, and continue to root for them with undiminished vigor
And yes, if they won a world series this year I would celebrate it entirely and totally
Why? Because I am a Yankee fan
It really is that simple...
Are there structural problems with baseball's salary structure? Of course, and in my more rational moments I can see that and know where you and others are coming from
But do you think I'm going to care about that if it's a night in October and Rivera is on the mound with two outs looking to win a World Series? Not at all
Did FSU's National Title in 1999 seem any less sweet because FSU was a CFB powerhouse in a talent rich state that used its program's prestige to get recruits that smaller conference schools couldn't?
I am a Yankee fan, plain and simple. My dad was a Yankee fan, and I have been one all my life. Went through some lean times with them in the 80s and early 90s, celebrated their WS victories in the late 90s and 2000, and continue to root for them with undiminished vigor
And yes, if they won a world series this year I would celebrate it entirely and totally
Why? Because I am a Yankee fan
It really is that simple...
Are there structural problems with baseball's salary structure? Of course, and in my more rational moments I can see that and know where you and others are coming from
But do you think I'm going to care about that if it's a night in October and Rivera is on the mound with two outs looking to win a World Series? Not at all
Did FSU's National Title in 1999 seem any less sweet because FSU was a CFB powerhouse in a talent rich state that used its program's prestige to get recruits that smaller conference schools couldn't?
Capella
Footballguy
Of course not. UF and UM are in the same state, Cali and Texas schools are loaded with top recruits, as well as the schools in the SEC.I'm not saying the Yanks can't have their fans, it just seems like there is no way it can be as thrilling as it is for other teams. It's impossible.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
I disagree with that. I think that might be true of the casual Yankee fan or a person In New York who has a mild interest in baseball.....but the hardcore fans are always thrilled. Most cities and their media make a concentrated effort to get as many people in on the excitement as possible. I saw it in Philadelphia and I'm sure you saw it in TB for the playoffs. People who would have have no interest in a regular season game of their cities team or a playoff game with another cities team suddenly found themselves caught up in the moment. These are the people whose interest wanes. Who grow tired of the sports story and start to take things for granted. If you are a student of the game....you realize that nothing is a given, nothing is taken for granted and to win the entire thing is a huge collective team effort.
blackjack23
Footballguy
I root for the "NY" on the front of their jersey
Of course I take great pride when guys come up from the minors to make a contribution to a championship team. Guys like Jeter, Rivera, Bernie, Chamberlain, etc. will always hold a special place in my heart more than guys we got in free agency. But to have a team basically full of guys that came up through the system is almost unheard of in the sport. There wont be many teams like TB in the near future. You mention the Red Sox which is confusing to me. The WS they won in 2004 was a team made up of almost all FAs. The 2007 WS team had some contributors from their minor league system but no more than the currently designed Yankee team.blackjack23
Footballguy
BTW, lets look at the number of starters that came up thru the TB minor league system last year:
Longoria, Crawford, Upton, Baldelli, Shields, Sonnanstine, Howell, Ill even count Price. That's 8 players.
Now lets compare it to this years Yankee team:
Posada, Cano, Jeter, Gardner, Chamberlain, Wang, Hughes, Rivera. That's 8 players.
Longoria, Crawford, Upton, Baldelli, Shields, Sonnanstine, Howell, Ill even count Price. That's 8 players.
Now lets compare it to this years Yankee team:
Posada, Cano, Jeter, Gardner, Chamberlain, Wang, Hughes, Rivera. That's 8 players.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
07 Sox had Lester, Ellsbury, Pedroia, Youkilis, and Papelbon as major contributors. Not sure how that compares to the current crop of Yankees.I root for the "NY" on the front of their jersey
blackjack23
Footballguy
See above post. 8 Yankee regulars came up from the minor league system.07 Sox had Lester, Ellsbury, Pedroia, Youkilis, and Papelbon as major contributors. Not sure how that compares to the current crop of Yankees.I root for the "NY" on the front of their jersey
Reaper
Footballguy
Well said and heck maybe:1) We're dying breed since we both were lucky or unlucky enough to live much our childhood through lean years as a Yankee's fan... I have felt that feeling of not winning, watching a team and players develop and even being somewhat of an underdog that year that led us to Game 6 where I was lucky enough witness it and experience the 1st win in a long while in the bronx and then all night in NYC.... 2) The Rivalries, the haters and the fans that think what and how a Yankee fan should act fuels the excitement.... When Some smart ### starts a thread mid season about the Yankees losing 100 games, yeah, it probably gets more exciting to see them play good baseball....To me, bottom line, I want to see good baseball... When the games start, it's about matchups and players on the field and I enjoy a good game, a good pitching matchup, a good battle between pitcher and batter, the little things good teams do, a good playoff race, a good playoffs on and on....I prefer salary caps in all sports - MLB is what it is, and it's more fun to win than lose - As a season plays out, no matter what the salaries, it's always a season full of storylines and excitement where you become closer to THAT team.
Last edited by a moderator:
Reaper
Footballguy
Thrill is hard to measure.No Yankees win will Match the 1996 win for me....I'm pretty sure no Championship will ever be greater than 2004 for Sox fans...If the Ray's won this year, I'd call it "Impossible" to match that again...But, as I said before, the thing about MLB and being a fan of baseball is how the season has a life of it's own - each game, each pitch, each out, each battle are all parts of a long season that bonds you with that team, that year and helps create and foster more and sometimes different rivalries each year....I'm a fan of BASEBALL.... I'm also a Yankees fan - I'm excited to see how this season plays out - yeah, I'm pretty sure they'll be competitive so, we knock that anticipation out of the box - I'm pretty sure the Rays and Sox will be competitive as well - You won't really have that same excitement again, It's pretty much expected and yeah, if the Rays aren't competive, It'll suck for Ray's fans.I can't say at all who will win the AL east... There's a whole soap opera involved here - there's a ton of small stories, injures and what have you that has to play out. And frankly, fans pretending to know how a Yankee fan should act and feel is all part of it and it's Nothing new.The NY Yankees have anew stadium to open and have reloaded. Yankee fans have plenty to be excited about... I'll hope to catch a few games and check out the new place!!!!
harryhood
Footballguy
@ Rockies, Rays and Red Sox being mentioned in the same breath as far as payroll and minor league contributors go.
Steelers4Life
Footballguy
People talk about the Yankees home grown talent like it really means something.
If they didn't have the $200 million payroll, they wouldn't have kept HALF of that homegrown talent. They'd have lost them to free agency like every other team does. If EVERY team had that kind of payroll, they'd be able to boast a ton of home grown talent too instead of having to decide who to keep and who to let go when they get too expensive. It's a problem the Yankees will never have to face.
Every team develops good players. Most of them eventually lose them. The Yankees don't.
How many of those home grown Rays will be signed long-term? Two? Maybe three?
If they didn't have the $200 million payroll, they wouldn't have kept HALF of that homegrown talent. They'd have lost them to free agency like every other team does. If EVERY team had that kind of payroll, they'd be able to boast a ton of home grown talent too instead of having to decide who to keep and who to let go when they get too expensive. It's a problem the Yankees will never have to face.
Every team develops good players. Most of them eventually lose them. The Yankees don't.
How many of those home grown Rays will be signed long-term? Two? Maybe three?
Michael Brown
Footballguy
I'd guess that they'll keep a whole lot more than 2-3 of those guys. As far as the Yankees go, they won a WS title in 96, and again from 98-00. By that point, none of their homegrown guys on the team at that point had even reached free agency yet. Jeter (96), Posada, Rivera, Pettitte (95)...none of them were in danger of going anywhere. Since those guys have entered their FA years, the Yankees haven't won another title. So I'm not sure your argument is as strong as you think it is.
Michael Brown
Footballguy
You are suggesting that the team is made up solely of mercenaries. While there are key free agents, it's not much different from their WS winning teams or many WS winning team for that matter.Mariano, Posada, Jeter, and the CF situation have always been homegrown. Cano is homegrown. On the mound, Pettitte was the lone homegrown SP then; now they have Wang and Joba. They got O'Neill and Tino through trades, same with ARod and Nady. Knoblauch, Brosius and the LF rotation were all FA while Damon, Tex and Matsui are current FA. The team has, for better or worse, been made up of a mix of everything since the mid-90's. So do you think we shouldn't have celebrated from 96-00 either?I also don't get the Boston comparison. There has rarely been a fan base that has celebrated a championship more than the 2004 Red Sox. Yet on that team, the only key player who was a homegrown talent that came up through the system was Trot Nixon. They acquired guys like Tek and Schilling through trades, which is close, but still doesn't pass your litmus test for what is able to be celebrated at a high level. Should they have sat back and said 'Well we won but it's not like we're the Pirates...'?I did say last year that I didn't want to trade Hughes for Johan because I would prefer one WS win with Hughes than three with Johan. I didn't care if it made the team better; I'd rather win with homegrown talent. So I do value the homegrown players more than the FA signings because there's more of a connection there. And I wish they would've given Hughes the #5 spot rather than signing Burnett. But it doesn't take anything away simply because they have 8-10 homegrown players rather than 15. I root for the guys who are in uniform, and for every Teixeira and Burnett that you call a mercenary, there's a Jeter and Rivera that we've kind of grown up with and rooted for going on 15 years, and rooting for those guys will never ever get old. I'll root for the FA players as well because when they do well, it means Jeter and Mo and Jorgie do well and win. And a lot of times, the guys from outside the organization become fan favorites (O'Neill, Cone, Wells, etc) and grow on you. Just because a guy wasn't with the team at 21 doesn't make him any less likable once he's here. You get connected to players all sorts of ways.I could understand your point if the team had 25 players from outside the organization. But just because our team isn't built EXACTLY like the Rays doesn't make it any less fun if they win. Just like people say Yankee fans don't understand fans of other teams, I guess it can be turned around to say that some of those fans don't get Yankee fans either.
Last edited by a moderator:
Reaper
Footballguy
Was thinking this over a little today.. Cap, there's not a ton of Diehard Ray's fans just yet.... It'll come.
From your perspective you try to rate how happy Yankee fans can possibly be and put a cap on it... Another point of view though is this - Yankee fans, lets stick with the theme here and say "Real" Yankee fans were born and grew up with Yankee tradition.. Rivalries with many teams. A local rivalry with the Mets. History and past stories, victories and losses, heartbreaks, triumphs. Some of us watched the tail end of some good teams, went through school years Some of us went to the Stadium dozens, hundreds of times in those years, watched Thousands of games... And THEN, finally after 18 years, experienced something to me that was religeous-like, again as High as can be...
Yankee fans have been invested in this team through generations.. Yankee Tradition, If I may. Yankee fans my age, knew what the past was, felt and heard all the pressure and still waited and simmered until they won again 18 Years later!!! Talk about a Thrill.
(oh, on this same note, I doubt few fans in all of sports could have that same thrill and feeling Red Sox fans had after their tradition and 80 whatever years they waited. - That's what IMO makes Boston fans and all fans unique - where they came from, what they experienced.)
MOST Ray's fans are pretty new to the game - I'd imagine most Ray's fans weren't that emotionally invested last year.. To THAT I say, It's "impossible" for most Ray's fans to feel the Thrill I felt in 1996!!!! I ask, How can fans of an expansion team just 10 years in feel what I felt????? Sure, possibly you can and a few other but, I'd say a lot more Yankee fans had a lot more invested in their team.
A loss last year was like "Oh well, we almost did it, it was fun, maybe next year" to most of that stadium and it's brand spanking new "fans". It wasn't as if some lifelong rival team and fans with the emotions involved. It really wasn't like you waited THAT long to see your team win relatively speaking, the 1st couple of years probably don't even count cuz you're happy enough to have a team at all.
Also, Are most Ray's fans "Bandwagon"... I think you are in the minority as a Ray's fan and your dedication... "most" Rays fans probably don't even have much of a clue when it comes to baseball and the thrill of a winning season to even try to think about how a Yankee fan might feel.
Last edited by a moderator:
blackjack23
Footballguy
Most of the home grown Rays have already been signed to long-term deals.
Gopher State
Footballguy
Yankees have $26.9 million luxury tax bill
NEW YORK (AP) — The New York Yankees not only failed to make the playoffs, they were hit with their highest luxury tax in three years. The Yankees were assessed a $26.9 million tax by the commissioner's office on Monday, up from $23.9 million last year and their biggest bill since paying nearly $34 million for 2005. The Detroit Tigers, who also failed to qualify for the postseason, are the only other team that must pay tax and owe $1.3 million to the commissioner's office.
Checks are due by Jan. 31.
Both teams got little for what they spent. The Yankees' streak of 13 consecutive playoff appearances ended, and they finished third in the AL East at 89-73, prompting them to spend nearly a quarter-billion dollars to sign pitchers CC Sabathia and A.J. Burnett.
Detroit entered the year with lofty expectations after acquiring Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis but went 74-88 and finished last in the AL Central.
While the Yankees pay at a 40% rate for the amount over $155 million, the Tigers pay at a 22.5% rate because they exceeded the specified threshold for the first time.
This year's figure brings the Yankees' total tax to $148.3 million in the six seasons since it began — 90% of the total.
Before this year, the only other teams to pay were the Boston Red Sox, who owed $13.9 million for exceeding the threshold in four seasons, and the Los Angeles Angels, who paid $927,000 in 2004.
New York's payroll was $222.2 million and Detroit was second at $160.8 million for the purpose of the luxury tax. To computer it, Major League Baseball uses the average annual values of contracts for players on 40-man rosters and adds benefits.
The threshold rose from $148 million last year to $155 million this season. It goes up to $162 million next year and rises by $8 million in each of the following two seasons.
Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Looks like the Yankees will continue to be big spenders in this area
NEW YORK (AP) — The New York Yankees not only failed to make the playoffs, they were hit with their highest luxury tax in three years. The Yankees were assessed a $26.9 million tax by the commissioner's office on Monday, up from $23.9 million last year and their biggest bill since paying nearly $34 million for 2005. The Detroit Tigers, who also failed to qualify for the postseason, are the only other team that must pay tax and owe $1.3 million to the commissioner's office.
Checks are due by Jan. 31.
Both teams got little for what they spent. The Yankees' streak of 13 consecutive playoff appearances ended, and they finished third in the AL East at 89-73, prompting them to spend nearly a quarter-billion dollars to sign pitchers CC Sabathia and A.J. Burnett.
Detroit entered the year with lofty expectations after acquiring Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis but went 74-88 and finished last in the AL Central.
While the Yankees pay at a 40% rate for the amount over $155 million, the Tigers pay at a 22.5% rate because they exceeded the specified threshold for the first time.
This year's figure brings the Yankees' total tax to $148.3 million in the six seasons since it began — 90% of the total.
Before this year, the only other teams to pay were the Boston Red Sox, who owed $13.9 million for exceeding the threshold in four seasons, and the Los Angeles Angels, who paid $927,000 in 2004.
New York's payroll was $222.2 million and Detroit was second at $160.8 million for the purpose of the luxury tax. To computer it, Major League Baseball uses the average annual values of contracts for players on 40-man rosters and adds benefits.
The threshold rose from $148 million last year to $155 million this season. It goes up to $162 million next year and rises by $8 million in each of the following two seasons.
Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Looks like the Yankees will continue to be big spenders in this area
Koya
Footballguy
This isnt about you. Please let us play.TIA.Hope you had a great xmas btw.
DropKick
Footballguy
Always amazes me when Yankee fans point out a handful of guys who came up through their system. That is not even close to the point; its the endless parade of blue chip guys they add to the mix with the money... All Stars, league MVPs, the top pitchers in the game, etc.This is an advantage no other team has. Period. It is not a level playing field. Granted they don't win every year but that is not evidence the system works. They have been virtual play-off locks for a long time. Cappy is right, NY will never know what it is like to win as an underdog. Of course, Yankee fans will be happy if they finally win another series. They love a stacked deck. I just don't think they'll get much "respect" from other fan bases who must compete with far less heralded players or do a great job in player evaluation/development.BTW, lets look at the number of starters that came up thru the TB minor league system last year:Longoria, Crawford, Upton, Baldelli, Shields, Sonnanstine, Howell, Ill even count Price. That's 8 players.Now lets compare it to this years Yankee teamosada, Cano, Jeter, Gardner, Chamberlain, Wang, Hughes, Rivera. That's 8 players.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
1996 down? I believe they were also the underdogs in the 2003 ALCS.
DropKick
Footballguy
I can't imagine the Yankees were a (big?) underdog in the 2003 play-offs. And I'm not talking about being a "slight" dog... I'm talking about a team that enters the season with a young group of players or a perceived rebuilding year and exceed all expectations.I'm sure '96 met those qualifications and was very satisfying... but that preceded the big spending mode they've been in recently.
blackjack23
Footballguy
Thats not what Cappy was pointing out. He said Yankee fans wont have the same thrill as TB fans because they dont have the same joy watching the guys from their farm system carry them to a championship. I was just pointing out that TB & NY have the same number of homegrown players.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Michael Brown
Footballguy
The Yankees paid Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig a combined $100K during the stock market crash/Great Depression.Anyway, does this guy think the Yankees are the only entertainment outlet making money? When times are bad, people like escapes to help them forget their problems. Baseball is, and has always been, one of those outlets. It's not a Yankee thing -- it's an America thing. He can go look at an article that hit the internet today listing all of the record-breaking box office numbers out of Hollywood for 2008 despite these being bad financial times. I can't wait for the article crying about why Leonardo DiCaprio and Denzel Washington get $25 million for their next films.
Michael Brown
Footballguy
Yes I want my team to win the WS so that fans across the nation respect my team's front office!Is this honestly why you root for YOUR favorite team? If so, I truly feel sorry for you. I don't know about you, but I root for my team because I love the team. The rest is just trash-talking nonsense and media fodder that, while fun to talk about, doesn't matter to me one bit.
Giantseasonticketholder
Whammy
So what are they supposed to do with all of their money? I'm pretty sure the Steinbrenners are among the most generous of all sports owners when it comes to helping out people in need financially. They are constantly donating to worthwhile causes. So instead of sitting in their bank vault and counting every last penny (Carl Polhad) they are putting their money into their team. The luxury tax they are forced to pay goes to the lower rung teams, who in turn, put the money back into their own pockets instead of into their teams.I think this article is taking things a little too far. What's more fiscally irresponsible: Spending hundreds of millions when you make billions, or buying a $600,000 home when you make $60,000 a year?
Koya
Footballguy
Seriously. A LOT of whining going on there. The Yanks are not doing ANYthing wrong. The system is pathetic, and the other owners should come forward to either do something, or people should ##### at their own greedy owners and not the yanks.Now, that does not change the fact that the entitled yankee fan has nothing much to root for since a WS ring is just doing what they should do - no more no less - but those from other teams and markets need to shut their trap at blaming the yanks as they are just working through the current system.
I think this article is taking things a little too far. What's more fiscally irresponsible: Spending hundreds of millions when you make billions, or buying a $600,000 home when you make $60,000 a year?
I WILL say this - considering the economic times, I would not be surprised to hear a couple teams this year state that they will have trouble making payroll/expenses... if the economy continues to slumber and more industries fall (housing, then financial, then cars then ???) you could see a situation where real change is needed or teams will be concerned that they may fold - they ask the unions to work with them, the unions of course wont (being one of the worst group of people this side of Philly fans). Work stoppage ala the NHL ensues and on the other side of the apocolypse, we have a cap and the yanks actually have to earn world series victories.
We shall see.
Giantseasonticketholder
Whammy
If the Yanks use their unlimited resources exclusively for scouting, in theory, it could get worse instead of better for MLB.Seriously. A LOT of whining going on there. The Yanks are not doing ANYthing wrong. The system is pathetic, and the other owners should come forward to either do something, or people should ##### at their own greedy owners and not the yanks.Now, that does not change the fact that the entitled yankee fan has nothing much to root for since a WS ring is just doing what they should do - no more no less - but those from other teams and markets need to shut their trap at blaming the yanks as they are just working through the current system.
I think this article is taking things a little too far. What's more fiscally irresponsible: Spending hundreds of millions when you make billions, or buying a $600,000 home when you make $60,000 a year?
I WILL say this - considering the economic times, I would not be surprised to hear a couple teams this year state that they will have trouble making payroll/expenses... if the economy continues to slumber and more industries fall (housing, then financial, then cars then ???) you could see a situation where real change is needed or teams will be concerned that they may fold - they ask the unions to work with them, the unions of course wont (being one of the worst group of people this side of Philly fans). Work stoppage ala the NHL ensues and on the other side of the apocolypse, we have a cap and the yanks actually have to earn world series victories.
We shall see.
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
How much are tickets increasing at the new stadium?
Thunderlips
Footballguy
If the Yanks use their unlimited resources exclusively for scouting, in theory, it could get worse instead of better for MLB.Seriously. A LOT of whining going on there. The Yanks are not doing ANYthing wrong. The system is pathetic, and the other owners should come forward to either do something, or people should ##### at their own greedy owners and not the yanks.Now, that does not change the fact that the entitled yankee fan has nothing much to root for since a WS ring is just doing what they should do - no more no less - but those from other teams and markets need to shut their trap at blaming the yanks as they are just working through the current system.So what are they supposed to do with all of their money? I'm pretty sure the Steinbrenners are among the most generous of all sports owners when it comes to helping out people in need financially. They are constantly donating to worthwhile causes. So instead of sitting in their bank vault and counting every last penny (Carl Polhad) they are putting their money into their team. The luxury tax they are forced to pay goes to the lower rung teams, who in turn, put the money back into their own pockets instead of into their teams.
I think this article is taking things a little too far. What's more fiscally irresponsible: Spending hundreds of millions when you make billions, or buying a $600,000 home when you make $60,000 a year?
I WILL say this - considering the economic times, I would not be surprised to hear a couple teams this year state that they will have trouble making payroll/expenses... if the economy continues to slumber and more industries fall (housing, then financial, then cars then ???) you could see a situation where real change is needed or teams will be concerned that they may fold - they ask the unions to work with them, the unions of course wont (being one of the worst group of people this side of Philly fans). Work stoppage ala the NHL ensues and on the other side of the apocolypse, we have a cap and the yanks actually have to earn world series victories.
We shall see.
I don't think people understand what exactly will happen. The Yanks might get stung by a cap only if it's implemented immediately. If that happened, they would be burdened with some bad contracts and wouldn't have much wiggle room. During this time, I'm sure the pro-cap people would be laughing and saying how well the cap works, how the Yanks FO has no baseball savvy, etc. etc. After this unburdening of contracts or (which in my mind is the only way I would accept a cap) the cap is phased in over a few years....the Yankees ownership would just use their money in other ways...scouting, multi-million dollar minor league contracts, coaching, baseball academies....etc. etc.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Buehler?
MAC_32
Footballguy
...or it's because most would rather ##### and moan about the yankees and baseball's lack of a salary cap. You'd think after whining about it as long as most have that they'd tire of it. Nope, some people just like to complain...a lot.Good signing for the Yanks. Defense, power, patience at the plate, guy's got it all. We'll see in a few years if they played this down market well...or if it will blow up in their face. Betting money says they're playing it well, but there's certainly no guarantees. Definitely some risky moves being made by them this offseason.The Ghost of Common said:
Michael Brown
Footballguy
I'm in the upper deck and my tickets didn't go up at all. I don't think bleachers increased either. The lower level seats I believe went up though I'm not certain how much.
