The “I want to retire soon” thread (2 Viewers)

[matttyl]

Per the googles: Has to be HSA compatible, I guess there is more to it than the high deductible.

Why a non-HSA-compatible plan doesn't work
HSA eligibility rules: The key requirement is that the plan must be an "HSA-eligible" or "HSA-qualified" HDHP. This isn't just about the deductible; it's a specific set of rules.
Preventive care and copays: A common reason a plan is not HSA-eligible is that it covers certain services, like prescriptions or doctor's visits, with a copay before the deductible is met.
"First-dollar" coverage: Plans that provide "first-dollar" coverage for most services before you meet the deductible are disqualified from being HSA-eligible.

Ugh

Correct, but again if you're looking at a copper plan they are all, by law, HSA plans. Not sure how the mechanics on those work, though. Silver and Gold don't have to be.

I was looking at a gold plan with a 4000 deductible which is close to what were used to. None of the silver or gold plans are HSA compatible in my market. Now I have to weigh going to bronze with 12000 deductible that gets me 8750 in HSA. Good news is a bronze plan is going to cost a lot less than I was planning.

Here’s what I think I know - on exchange Anthem will have 5 HSA eligible plans in Va next year. All bronze tier. Deductibles range from 5500-8700. Of course all of them are HMO network plans (I think you and I have talked about that before). Off exchange, where there would be no subsides and you’d be paying “full price” there will be more options, including what’s effectively a PPO network plan, but won’t be cheap. Premium increases (before age increases) are looking to be 16-18%.

Are those deductible amounts you quoted for a single person? Because for two of us the lowest Anthem bronze deductible I see on the marketplace is $11,000.

Yes, $5,500 per person, for a total of up to $11k for a family. Keep in mind that the deductible is what’s called “embedded” (verifying this, but in the past it had been), meaning that no individual needs to come
out of pocket over 5,500 to meet their individual deductible. And the family unit, no matter how big, has a total deductible of 11,000 (so not 5,500 x 4 for a family of 4).

 

[Peggy]

Per the googles: Has to be HSA compatible, I guess there is more to it than the high deductible.

Why a non-HSA-compatible plan doesn't work
HSA eligibility rules: The key requirement is that the plan must be an "HSA-eligible" or "HSA-qualified" HDHP. This isn't just about the deductible; it's a specific set of rules.
Preventive care and copays: A common reason a plan is not HSA-eligible is that it covers certain services, like prescriptions or doctor's visits, with a copay before the deductible is met.
"First-dollar" coverage: Plans that provide "first-dollar" coverage for most services before you meet the deductible are disqualified from being HSA-eligible.

Ugh

Correct, but again if you're looking at a copper plan they are all, by law, HSA plans. Not sure how the mechanics on those work, though. Silver and Gold don't have to be.

I was looking at a gold plan with a 4000 deductible which is close to what were used to. None of the silver or gold plans are HSA compatible in my market. Now I have to weigh going to bronze with 12000 deductible that gets me 8750 in HSA. Good news is a bronze plan is going to cost a lot less than I was planning.

Here’s what I think I know - on exchange Anthem will have 5 HSA eligible plans in Va next year. All bronze tier. Deductibles range from 5500-8700. Of course all of them are HMO network plans (I think you and I have talked about that before). Off exchange, where there would be no subsides and you’d be paying “full price” there will be more options, including what’s effectively a PPO network plan, but won’t be cheap. Premium increases (before age increases) are looking to be 16-18%.

Are those deductible amounts you quoted for a single person? Because for two of us the lowest Anthem bronze deductible I see on the marketplace is $11,000.

Yes, $5,500 per person, for a total of up to $11k for a family. Keep in mind that the deductible is what’s called “embedded” (verifying this, but in the past it had been), meaning that no individual needs to come
out of pocket over 5,500 to meet their individual deductible. And the family unit, no matter how big, has a total deductible of 11,000 (so not 5,500 x 4 for a family of 4).

Awesome! The "embedded" part is great for our situation and risk for the years leading up to Medicare. Great to know. I have an appointment with the certified ACA lady at our doctors office on Nov 5th after the marketplace opens.

We got all our healthcare that we know of caught up knowing we're going off Cobra. (Wife's hip replacement, all needed dental work, check ups etc.) She does have a questionable shoulder so knowing if that happens it's a 5K+ bill and not a 11K+ bill makes my choice for a bronze level a lot easier!

 

[Mookie]

I'm trying to figure out my charitable giving for retirement and came across Daffy, which is essentially a low fee option (about $50/year) that allows you to donate stock (potentially reducing net income and avoiding long term capital gains when the gift is made), have those funds re-invested in one of there portfolios so they continue to grow tax free, make $ donations to various charities of your choosing over time, and keep track of those donations or make them recurring.

It seems like a great way to avoid LT capital gains and maximize the value of low cost basis stocks that have appreciated greatly over the years (I'm looking at you MSFT). Anyone have any experience with Daffy or other strategies for charitable giving in retirement?

 

[D_House]

I'm trying to figure out my charitable giving for retirement and came across Daffy, which is essentially a low fee option (about $50/year) that allows you to donate stock (potentially reducing net income and avoiding long term capital gains when the gift is made), have those funds re-invested in one of there portfolios so they continue to grow tax free, make $ donations to various charities of your choosing over time, and keep track of those donations or make them recurring.

It seems like a great way to avoid LT capital gains and maximize the value of low cost basis stocks that have appreciated greatly over the years (I'm looking at you MSFT). Anyone have any experience with Daffy or other strategies for charitable giving in retirement?

I use Vanguard Charitable for my donor-advised fund since my brokerage account is at Vanguard and contributing is seamless. Fidelity and Schwab also provide donor-advised funds, with varying account and contribution minimums and fee structures.

DAFs are a great way to tax-efficiently give to charity if one has taxable capital gains or just wants to "bunch" contributions into particular tax year in order to increase their itemized deduction.

Later in retirement, when RMDs come into play, qualified charitable distributions (QCDs) become the most tax-efficient means of giving.

QCDs: https://www.investopedia.com/401k-qualified-charitable-donations-5496251

 

[Steve Tasker]

I'm trying to figure out my charitable giving for retirement and came across Daffy, which is essentially a low fee option (about $50/year) that allows you to donate stock (potentially reducing net income and avoiding long term capital gains when the gift is made), have those funds re-invested in one of there portfolios so they continue to grow tax free, make $ donations to various charities of your choosing over time, and keep track of those donations or make them recurring.

It seems like a great way to avoid LT capital gains and maximize the value of low cost basis stocks that have appreciated greatly over the years (I'm looking at you MSFT). Anyone have any experience with Daffy or other strategies for charitable giving in retirement?

I will echo @D_House post above - many of my clients use Fidelity or Vanguard for their DAF services. It is definitely a smart way to plan charitable giving if you are intending to donate appreciated stocks. If you have an account with either of those brokerages, may be worth checking with them. I am not sure the fees they charge, but the clients I have who use them for the DAF services seem to be happy with them.

 

[matttyl]

Per the googles: Has to be HSA compatible, I guess there is more to it than the high deductible.

Why a non-HSA-compatible plan doesn't work
HSA eligibility rules: The key requirement is that the plan must be an "HSA-eligible" or "HSA-qualified" HDHP. This isn't just about the deductible; it's a specific set of rules.
Preventive care and copays: A common reason a plan is not HSA-eligible is that it covers certain services, like prescriptions or doctor's visits, with a copay before the deductible is met.
"First-dollar" coverage: Plans that provide "first-dollar" coverage for most services before you meet the deductible are disqualified from being HSA-eligible.

Ugh

Correct, but again if you're looking at a copper plan they are all, by law, HSA plans. Not sure how the mechanics on those work, though. Silver and Gold don't have to be.

I was looking at a gold plan with a 4000 deductible which is close to what were used to. None of the silver or gold plans are HSA compatible in my market. Now I have to weigh going to bronze with 12000 deductible that gets me 8750 in HSA. Good news is a bronze plan is going to cost a lot less than I was planning.

Here’s what I think I know - on exchange Anthem will have 5 HSA eligible plans in Va next year. All bronze tier. Deductibles range from 5500-8700. Of course all of them are HMO network plans (I think you and I have talked about that before). Off exchange, where there would be no subsides and you’d be paying “full price” there will be more options, including what’s effectively a PPO network plan, but won’t be cheap. Premium increases (before age increases) are looking to be 16-18%.

Are those deductible amounts you quoted for a single person? Because for two of us the lowest Anthem bronze deductible I see on the marketplace is $11,000.

Yes, $5,500 per person, for a total of up to $11k for a family. Keep in mind that the deductible is what’s called “embedded” (verifying this, but in the past it had been), meaning that no individual needs to come
out of pocket over 5,500 to meet their individual deductible. And the family unit, no matter how big, has a total deductible of 11,000 (so not 5,500 x 4 for a family of 4).

Awesome! The "embedded" part is great for our situation and risk for the years leading up to Medicare. Great to know. I have an appointment with the certified ACA lady at our doctors office on Nov 5th after the marketplace opens.

We got all our healthcare that we know of caught up knowing we're going off Cobra. (Wife's hip replacement, all needed dental work, check ups etc.) She does have a questionable shoulder so knowing if that happens it's a 5K+ bill and not a 11K+ bill makes my choice for a bronze level a lot easier!

I have to say, I’m not at all impressed by the Va marketplace site this year (or any previous for that matter). As I mentioned above, they don’t list the individual deductible when you quote for a family (or the individual max OOP), which makes the numbers looks huge - which they would be anyway.

And yesterday I receive an email from the marketplace stating that anyone with “access to cobra” would not be eligible for premium tax credits. I’d never understood that to be the case, as it read like an individual on cobra (which I believe you are) would need to completely exhaust the full 18 months of cobra before being eligible for any subsidies. I was on the phone for over half an hour with them this morning clarifying that. I’m not saying they are deliberately spreading false/mis information, but they don’t see to want to do much to prevent it either.

Compound that with the shutdown, this years open enrollment is going to be really messy.

 

[BassNBrew]

Someone want to bump the best of the dozen plus health insurance threads.

Just pulled my numbers for next year for my partner and myself. $2800 a month, $7000 deductible each, $10,600 out of pocket each. $95 to see the primary. That's is a bronze plan.

The gold plans jumped from $1200 to $1800 each.

yeah right....if I sign up for that I will never retire. That premium is 3x my house payment.

 

[matttyl]

Someone want to bump the best of the dozen plus health insurance threads.

Just pulled my numbers for next year for my partner and myself. $2800 a month, $7000 deductible each, $10,600 out of pocket each. $95 to see the primary. That's is a bronze plan.

The gold plans jumped from $1200 to $1800 each.

yeah right....if I sign up for that I will never retire. That premium is 3x my house payment.

You 60+? Make a decent living?

 

[OrganizedChaos]

Someone want to bump the best of the dozen plus health insurance threads.

Just pulled my numbers for next year for my partner and myself. $2800 a month, $7000 deductible each, $10,600 out of pocket each. $95 to see the primary. That's is a bronze plan.

The gold plans jumped from $1200 to $1800 each.

yeah right....if I sign up for that I will never retire. That premium is 3x my house payment.

I hear you. Our monthly rates are going from 760 to about 2800. Fortunately I go onto Medicare starting in May so that makes it better but even then will be about 2000 a month (going with supplement vs. Medicare Advantage). About what I have been expecting. Oh and this is for a bronze plan.

 

[BassNBrew]

Someone want to bump the best of the dozen plus health insurance threads.

Just pulled my numbers for next year for my partner and myself. $2800 a month, $7000 deductible each, $10,600 out of pocket each. $95 to see the primary. That's is a bronze plan.

The gold plans jumped from $1200 to $1800 each.

yeah right....if I sign up for that I will never retire. That premium is 3x my house payment.

You 60+? Make a decent living?

Actually 59. I reworked the quote for 60 and it actually went down $100 a month per individual.

Yes, I won't qualify for a subsidy.

 

[Peggy]

Per the googles: Has to be HSA compatible, I guess there is more to it than the high deductible.

Why a non-HSA-compatible plan doesn't work
HSA eligibility rules: The key requirement is that the plan must be an "HSA-eligible" or "HSA-qualified" HDHP. This isn't just about the deductible; it's a specific set of rules.
Preventive care and copays: A common reason a plan is not HSA-eligible is that it covers certain services, like prescriptions or doctor's visits, with a copay before the deductible is met.
"First-dollar" coverage: Plans that provide "first-dollar" coverage for most services before you meet the deductible are disqualified from being HSA-eligible.

Ugh

Correct, but again if you're looking at a copper plan they are all, by law, HSA plans. Not sure how the mechanics on those work, though. Silver and Gold don't have to be.

I was looking at a gold plan with a 4000 deductible which is close to what were used to. None of the silver or gold plans are HSA compatible in my market. Now I have to weigh going to bronze with 12000 deductible that gets me 8750 in HSA. Good news is a bronze plan is going to cost a lot less than I was planning.

Here’s what I think I know - on exchange Anthem will have 5 HSA eligible plans in Va next year. All bronze tier. Deductibles range from 5500-8700. Of course all of them are HMO network plans (I think you and I have talked about that before). Off exchange, where there would be no subsides and you’d be paying “full price” there will be more options, including what’s effectively a PPO network plan, but won’t be cheap. Premium increases (before age increases) are looking to be 16-18%.

Are those deductible amounts you quoted for a single person? Because for two of us the lowest Anthem bronze deductible I see on the marketplace is $11,000.

Yes, $5,500 per person, for a total of up to $11k for a family. Keep in mind that the deductible is what’s called “embedded” (verifying this, but in the past it had been), meaning that no individual needs to come
out of pocket over 5,500 to meet their individual deductible. And the family unit, no matter how big, has a total deductible of 11,000 (so not 5,500 x 4 for a family of 4).

Awesome! The "embedded" part is great for our situation and risk for the years leading up to Medicare. Great to know. I have an appointment with the certified ACA lady at our doctors office on Nov 5th after the marketplace opens.

We got all our healthcare that we know of caught up knowing we're going off Cobra. (Wife's hip replacement, all needed dental work, check ups etc.) She does have a questionable shoulder so knowing if that happens it's a 5K+ bill and not a 11K+ bill makes my choice for a bronze level a lot easier!

I have to say, I’m not at all impressed by the Va marketplace site this year (or any previous for that matter). As I mentioned above, they don’t list the individual deductible when you quote for a family (or the individual max OOP), which makes the numbers looks huge - which they would be anyway.

And yesterday I receive an email from the marketplace stating that anyone with “access to cobra” would not be eligible for premium tax credits. I’d never understood that to be the case, as it read like an individual on cobra (which I believe you are) would need to completely exhaust the full 18 months of cobra before being eligible for any subsidies. I was on the phone for over half an hour with them this morning clarifying that. I’m not saying they are deliberately spreading false/mis information, but they don’t see to want to do much to prevent it either.

Compound that with the shutdown, this years open enrollment is going to be really messy.

That deductible thing threw me too. Then I realized the individual amount is in the name - Sentra M Bronze 7200

Will be interesting to see what I learn from the "certified assister" at our DRs office that I have an appointment with on Wed. I assume it's some sort of state program to help.

 

[Peggy]

@matttyl
Is there anything you want me to ask the "assister" that you're curious about or curious what they'll say?

I started my application on the marketplace. Is there any reason to not submit it right away? I'm targeting just under 400% poverty level so I can do 401k Roth conversions as much as I can without loosing subsidies. Just make sure I'm under $80,000 of income in the information they ask for?

 

[matttyl]

@matttyl
Is there anything you want me to ask the "assister" that you're curious about or curious what they'll say?

I started my application on the marketplace. Is there any reason to not submit it right away? I'm targeting just under 400% poverty level so I can do 401k Roth conversions as much as I can without loosing subsidies. Just make sure I'm under $80,000 of income in the information they ask for?

Well, subsidy structure could change, we dont know yet. That’s a major reason for the government shutdown. Nothing Im really too curious about. From the above, make sure the HMO you’re looking at will work for you and spouse.

 

[Peggy]

@matttyl
Is there anything you want me to ask the "assister" that you're curious about or curious what they'll say?

I started my application on the marketplace. Is there any reason to not submit it right away? I'm targeting just under 400% poverty level so I can do 401k Roth conversions as much as I can without loosing subsidies. Just make sure I'm under $80,000 of income in the information they ask for?

Well, subsidy structure could change, we dont know yet. That’s a major reason for the government shutdown. Nothing Im really too curious about. From the above, make sure the HMO you’re looking at will work for you and spouse.

The assister was just someone who is basically there to help old people that can't work computers sign up on the website. Lol. She didn't give me much of anything that I didn't already know.

Found this post reading through the aca thread over at bogleheads:

I'm surprised that some find the gold and silver plans worth paying for. From what I see in my area they don't seem likely to save anything, they just shift the expense from an "out of pocket" payment for service to a monthly premium. And then some of the "out of pocket" is only something you might pay, unlike the higher premiums.

I thinks that's largely true and as several posters there confirmed if you take into account the money savings from contributing to a HSA it's a no-brainer to go with a bronze plan.

Our primary doctor and orthopedic surgeon is in network for all the Sentra and Anthem bronze plans. The Sentra plans are generally cheaper, but Anthem has one plan with a lower deductible. The lower deductible however doesn't have a co-pay for specialists, it's 30% after the deductible is met. So I'm convincing myself that if we had a medical incident the savings in deductible would be eaten up with seeing specialists anyway so we might as well stick with the cheaper plan that covers specialists.

Looking at $250/mo. That's going to be nice compared to Cobra at $1,400/mo.

Another $55 a month for dental directly with our dentist's wellness plan. Includes all checkups, cleanings and x-rays. 15% coverage for procedures.

 

[Peggy]

And now I'm in another conundrum. My ACA rates by income:

$80,000 - $258/mo
$70,000 - $175/mo
$60,000 - $67/mo
$50,000 - $0/mo

So do I really want to pay $3,000 in insurance fees to conver an extra 30K of 401k conversions to Roth? Effectively, if you look at the cost as a tax, it changes the tax I pay on that 30K from 11.5% tax rate to 21.5%. That negates the purpose of doing rollovers in retirement at a lower tax rate, almost exactly.

My gut tells me to just take free heathcare for a couple years until my wife gets Medicare. Then do rollovers

 

[fruity pebbles]

And now I'm in another conundrum. My ACA rates by income:

$80,000 - $258/mo
$70,000 - $175/mo
$60,000 - $67/mo
$50,000 - $0/mo

So do I really want to pay $3,000 in insurance fees to conver an extra 30K of 401k conversions to Roth? Effectively, if you look at the cost as a tax, it changes the tax I pay on that 30K from 11.5% tax rate to 21.5%. That negates the purpose of doing rollovers in retirement at a lower tax rate, almost exactly.

My gut tells me to just take free heathcare for a couple years until my wife gets Medicare. Then do rollovers

That’s what I would do

 

[Sand]

My gut tells me to just take free heathcare for a couple years until my wife gets Medicare. Then do rollovers

Bird in hand. Take the cash now instead of the lower tax rates in the bush somewhere, maybe, down the line.

 

[Peggy]

And now I'm in another conundrum. My ACA rates by income:

$80,000 - $258/mo
$70,000 - $175/mo
$60,000 - $67/mo
$50,000 - $0/mo

So do I really want to pay $3,000 in insurance fees to conver an extra 30K of 401k conversions to Roth? Effectively, if you look at the cost as a tax, it changes the tax I pay on that 30K from 11.5% tax rate to 21.5%. That negates the purpose of doing rollovers in retirement at a lower tax rate, almost exactly.

My gut tells me to just take free heathcare for a couple years until my wife gets Medicare. Then do rollovers

That’s what I would do

My gut didn't take into account that two things happen when my wife goes on Medicare:
1 - The 400% poverty level goes to single person and down from 80K to 60K
2 - The subsidies are by individual so we loose hers and it's actually more expensive for just me at the high end of income (based on 2026 rates).

My gut tells me to just take free heathcare for a couple years until my wife gets Medicare. Then do rollovers

Bird in hand. Take the cash now instead of the lower tax rates in the bush somewhere, maybe, down the line.

You must be right because after studying it some more it doesn't appear that its going to get any better. I was hoping there might be a sweet spot as the premiums seemed exponential but it turns out it's the other way around:

Income / Premium / Cost based on amount above $55,000
$50,000 / $0 / 0.0%
$55,000 / $0 / 0.0%
$56,000 / $9 / 10.8%
$57,000 / $23 / 13.8%
$58,000 / $38 / 15.2%
$59,000 / $52 / 15.6%
$60,000 / $67 / 16.1%
$65,000 / $133 / 16.0%
$70,000 / $175 / 14.0%
$75,000 / $216 / 13.0%
$80,000 / $258 / 12.4%

I think I need to look at it as I've always budgeted for cost of healthcare, much more that what it's going to cost us in 2026 and that my effective tax rate at tax time will still be 11.5%. But, strictly from a dollar-to-dollar standpoint it isn't working out that waiting until retirement to do 401K conversions was the correct answer. I could have been rolling those over during my working years at about a 20-22% effective tax rate which equals 11.5% plus the cost of the premium. At least some of it as long as it didn't push me up a tax bracket. Am I missing something?

 

[matttyl]

@matttyl
Is there anything you want me to ask the "assister" that you're curious about or curious what they'll say?

I started my application on the marketplace. Is there any reason to not submit it right away? I'm targeting just under 400% poverty level so I can do 401k Roth conversions as much as I can without loosing subsidies. Just make sure I'm under $80,000 of income in the information they ask for?

Well, subsidy structure could change, we dont know yet. That’s a major reason for the government shutdown. Nothing Im really too curious about. From the above, make sure the HMO you’re looking at will work for you and spouse.

The assister was just someone who is basically there to help old people that can't work computers sign up on the website. Lol. She didn't give me much of anything that I didn't already know.

Found this post reading through the aca thread over at bogleheads:

I'm surprised that some find the gold and silver plans worth paying for. From what I see in my area they don't seem likely to save anything, they just shift the expense from an "out of pocket" payment for service to a monthly premium. And then some of the "out of pocket" is only something you might pay, unlike the higher premiums.

I thinks that's largely true and as several posters there confirmed if you take into account the money savings from contributing to a HSA it's a no-brainer to go with a bronze plan.

Our primary doctor and orthopedic surgeon is in network for all the Sentra and Anthem bronze plans. The Sentra plans are generally cheaper, but Anthem has one plan with a lower deductible. The lower deductible however doesn't have a co-pay for specialists, it's 30% after the deductible is met. So I'm convincing myself that if we had a medical incident the savings in deductible would be eaten up with seeing specialists anyway so we might as well stick with the cheaper plan that covers specialists.

Looking at $250/mo. That's going to be nice compared to Cobra at $1,400/mo.

Another $55 a month for dental directly with our dentist's wellness plan. Includes all checkups, cleanings and x-rays. 15% coverage for procedures.

Was kinda thinking that’s all the assister would be. There is a thing called a “navigator”, which is essentially the same thing, but also knows the ins and outs of both the subsidy structure as well as Medicaid.

As for policy choices - the best way I’ve learned to explain it is that you now have to view it not as “health insurance”, but rather as “health care financing.” Is it worth paying more premium (knowingly) to have a silver or gold tier plan with a lower deductible and/or out of pocket? For me personally (mainly because I already have a decent HSA), I just look at the HDHP options and go from there.

 

[NutterButter]

@matttyl
Is there anything you want me to ask the "assister" that you're curious about or curious what they'll say?

I started my application on the marketplace. Is there any reason to not submit it right away? I'm targeting just under 400% poverty level so I can do 401k Roth conversions as much as I can without loosing subsidies. Just make sure I'm under $80,000 of income in the information they ask for?

Well, subsidy structure could change, we dont know yet. That’s a major reason for the government shutdown. Nothing Im really too curious about. From the above, make sure the HMO you’re looking at will work for you and spouse.

The assister was just someone who is basically there to help old people that can't work computers sign up on the website. Lol. She didn't give me much of anything that I didn't already know.

Found this post reading through the aca thread over at bogleheads:

I'm surprised that some find the gold and silver plans worth paying for. From what I see in my area they don't seem likely to save anything, they just shift the expense from an "out of pocket" payment for service to a monthly premium. And then some of the "out of pocket" is only something you might pay, unlike the higher premiums.

I thinks that's largely true and as several posters there confirmed if you take into account the money savings from contributing to a HSA it's a no-brainer to go with a bronze plan.

Our primary doctor and orthopedic surgeon is in network for all the Sentra and Anthem bronze plans. The Sentra plans are generally cheaper, but Anthem has one plan with a lower deductible. The lower deductible however doesn't have a co-pay for specialists, it's 30% after the deductible is met. So I'm convincing myself that if we had a medical incident the savings in deductible would be eaten up with seeing specialists anyway so we might as well stick with the cheaper plan that covers specialists.

Looking at $250/mo. That's going to be nice compared to Cobra at $1,400/mo.

Another $55 a month for dental directly with our dentist's wellness plan. Includes all checkups, cleanings and x-rays. 15% coverage for procedures.

Is this b/c your income is too high? I see in NJ for a couple with income of $30k, you can get a silver epo with horizon for $100/month $200 deductible and $2700 oop. Obviously you need to structure your savings so you can keep your income low, but that price is incredible if you can.

 

[Sand]

Bird in hand. Take the cash now instead of the lower tax rates in the bush somewhere, maybe, down the line.

You must be right because after studying it some more it doesn't appear that its going to get any better.

Honestly I have done zero math on this - just conceptual thoughts. The math gets very cloudy and with the ACA cliff rolled in the gains are likely to be marginal (maybe if the enhanced subsidies are around the math gets clearer, though I'd still hedge toward cash in hand). As Og the Caveman ACA navigator I figure taking the cash up front (straight cash homie!) and investing that is a reasonable choice and doesn't hinge on future tax rates, ACA changes, IRMAA thresholds, dying too early, etc.

At least now my initial leaning is to stay under the ACA cliff until Medicare, then convert up to the first or second IRMAA threshold at 65+, then let it all go wherever the heck it wants when RMDs kick in. Assuming I live that long.

 

[General Malaise]

I have to open an "Inherited IRA" to receive the proceeds of my dad's IRA. My understanding is that this thing has a 10-year fuse and then I have to take the proceeds or do something else with it....not sure what my options are. Anybody know anything here?

 

[Sand]

I have to open an "Inherited IRA" to receive the proceeds of my dad's IRA. My understanding is that this thing has a 10-year fuse and then I have to take the proceeds or do something else with it....not sure what my options are. Anybody know anything here?

These are the new rules - https://www.fidelity.com/learning-center/personal-finance/retirement/non-spouse-IRA

The variables are if you were married to them (not in your case), within 10 years of age of the deceased (I sure hope not!), disabled, etc. Looks like the big one is if your dad was taking RMDs or not. If he was you'll need to take out at least as much as would satisfy the RMDs, but you still have to drain it by the end of year 10.

 

[General Malaise]

I have to open an "Inherited IRA" to receive the proceeds of my dad's IRA. My understanding is that this thing has a 10-year fuse and then I have to take the proceeds or do something else with it....not sure what my options are. Anybody know anything here?

These are the new rules - https://www.fidelity.com/learning-center/personal-finance/retirement/non-spouse-IRA

The variables are if you were married to them (not in your case), within 10 years of age of the deceased (I sure hope not!), disabled, etc. Looks like the big one is if your dad was taking RMDs or not. If he was you'll need to take out at least as much as would satisfy the RMDs, but you still have to drain it by the end of year 10.

Thanks. I'll talk to his financial guy again and ask about the RMDs. He was gifting my sister and I stock the last few years as a work around to the RMDs (I *THINK*) but I'll get clarity on it.

I might be able to use this as a small cushion if I ever do decide to retire but don't want to start collecting social security quite yet. I'll be 62 in 10 years and will be considering it for sure but I also really like my job, though there's no guarantee it's there for me that long.

Whole lot to think about. Should probably read this thread carefully.

 

[Schmeabs]

I have to open an "Inherited IRA" to receive the proceeds of my dad's IRA. My understanding is that this thing has a 10-year fuse and then I have to take the proceeds or do something else with it....not sure what my options are. Anybody know anything here?

Yes rules changed on this a few years ago so you will now need to withdraw all of it within 10 years. There will also be required minimum amounts each year there is a balance. I would check with his firm to make sure your Dad already took his RMD in 2025 or you and your siblings will need to make sure to that amount before year end. My mother in law passed away in 2021 and my wife had an inherited IRA and I had her take out all of it the past 4 years as our tax bracket is projected much higher in the coming years.

 

[Peggy]

@matttyl
Is there anything you want me to ask the "assister" that you're curious about or curious what they'll say?

I started my application on the marketplace. Is there any reason to not submit it right away? I'm targeting just under 400% poverty level so I can do 401k Roth conversions as much as I can without loosing subsidies. Just make sure I'm under $80,000 of income in the information they ask for?

Well, subsidy structure could change, we dont know yet. That’s a major reason for the government shutdown. Nothing Im really too curious about. From the above, make sure the HMO you’re looking at will work for you and spouse.

The assister was just someone who is basically there to help old people that can't work computers sign up on the website. Lol. She didn't give me much of anything that I didn't already know.

Found this post reading through the aca thread over at bogleheads:

I'm surprised that some find the gold and silver plans worth paying for. From what I see in my area they don't seem likely to save anything, they just shift the expense from an "out of pocket" payment for service to a monthly premium. And then some of the "out of pocket" is only something you might pay, unlike the higher premiums.

I thinks that's largely true and as several posters there confirmed if you take into account the money savings from contributing to a HSA it's a no-brainer to go with a bronze plan.

Our primary doctor and orthopedic surgeon is in network for all the Sentra and Anthem bronze plans. The Sentra plans are generally cheaper, but Anthem has one plan with a lower deductible. The lower deductible however doesn't have a co-pay for specialists, it's 30% after the deductible is met. So I'm convincing myself that if we had a medical incident the savings in deductible would be eaten up with seeing specialists anyway so we might as well stick with the cheaper plan that covers specialists.

Looking at $250/mo. That's going to be nice compared to Cobra at $1,400/mo.

Another $55 a month for dental directly with our dentist's wellness plan. Includes all checkups, cleanings and x-rays. 15% coverage for procedures.

Is this b/c your income is too high? I see in NJ for a couple with income of $30k, you can get a silver epo with horizon for $100/month $200 deductible and $2700 oop. Obviously you need to structure your savings so you can keep your income low, but that price is incredible if you can.

I want a bronze plan because those seem to be the only ones that qualify for HSA contributions.
I put my income on the high end because I wanted to do as much 401k conversions as I possibly could. But, yes, I'm living on cash for the first of many years so my income is completely under my control and can be as little as I need.

 

[NutterButter]

@matttyl
Is there anything you want me to ask the "assister" that you're curious about or curious what they'll say?

I started my application on the marketplace. Is there any reason to not submit it right away? I'm targeting just under 400% poverty level so I can do 401k Roth conversions as much as I can without loosing subsidies. Just make sure I'm under $80,000 of income in the information they ask for?

Well, subsidy structure could change, we dont know yet. That’s a major reason for the government shutdown. Nothing Im really too curious about. From the above, make sure the HMO you’re looking at will work for you and spouse.

The assister was just someone who is basically there to help old people that can't work computers sign up on the website. Lol. She didn't give me much of anything that I didn't already know.

Found this post reading through the aca thread over at bogleheads:

I'm surprised that some find the gold and silver plans worth paying for. From what I see in my area they don't seem likely to save anything, they just shift the expense from an "out of pocket" payment for service to a monthly premium. And then some of the "out of pocket" is only something you might pay, unlike the higher premiums.

I thinks that's largely true and as several posters there confirmed if you take into account the money savings from contributing to a HSA it's a no-brainer to go with a bronze plan.

Our primary doctor and orthopedic surgeon is in network for all the Sentra and Anthem bronze plans. The Sentra plans are generally cheaper, but Anthem has one plan with a lower deductible. The lower deductible however doesn't have a co-pay for specialists, it's 30% after the deductible is met. So I'm convincing myself that if we had a medical incident the savings in deductible would be eaten up with seeing specialists anyway so we might as well stick with the cheaper plan that covers specialists.

Looking at $250/mo. That's going to be nice compared to Cobra at $1,400/mo.

Another $55 a month for dental directly with our dentist's wellness plan. Includes all checkups, cleanings and x-rays. 15% coverage for procedures.

Is this b/c your income is too high? I see in NJ for a couple with income of $30k, you can get a silver epo with horizon for $100/month $200 deductible and $2700 oop. Obviously you need to structure your savings so you can keep your income low, but that price is incredible if you can.

I want a bronze plan because those seem to be the only ones that qualify for HSA contributions.
I put my income on the high end because I wanted to do as much 401k conversions as I possibly could. But, yes, I'm living on cash for the first of many years so my income is completely under my control and can be as little as I need.

Never thought about considering a hdhp for hsa contribution purposes at that stage. At the moment that's the plan I go with b/c premiums also on other plans are a lot higher (not just to get the hsa) but with such a low premium/deducible/max oop combination with those aca plans, I wasn't considering pass on that. maybe I need to think about it more. now if you're also doing it b/c of the conversion option, that certainly makes sense. i didn't consider conversions that early on since i was so locked in on getting the lowest quality healthcare but maybe that's the better option. time to whip out the calculator again.

 

[Peggy]

@matttyl
Is there anything you want me to ask the "assister" that you're curious about or curious what they'll say?

I started my application on the marketplace. Is there any reason to not submit it right away? I'm targeting just under 400% poverty level so I can do 401k Roth conversions as much as I can without loosing subsidies. Just make sure I'm under $80,000 of income in the information they ask for?

Well, subsidy structure could change, we dont know yet. That’s a major reason for the government shutdown. Nothing Im really too curious about. From the above, make sure the HMO you’re looking at will work for you and spouse.

The assister was just someone who is basically there to help old people that can't work computers sign up on the website. Lol. She didn't give me much of anything that I didn't already know.

Found this post reading through the aca thread over at bogleheads:

I'm surprised that some find the gold and silver plans worth paying for. From what I see in my area they don't seem likely to save anything, they just shift the expense from an "out of pocket" payment for service to a monthly premium. And then some of the "out of pocket" is only something you might pay, unlike the higher premiums.

I thinks that's largely true and as several posters there confirmed if you take into account the money savings from contributing to a HSA it's a no-brainer to go with a bronze plan.

Our primary doctor and orthopedic surgeon is in network for all the Sentra and Anthem bronze plans. The Sentra plans are generally cheaper, but Anthem has one plan with a lower deductible. The lower deductible however doesn't have a co-pay for specialists, it's 30% after the deductible is met. So I'm convincing myself that if we had a medical incident the savings in deductible would be eaten up with seeing specialists anyway so we might as well stick with the cheaper plan that covers specialists.

Looking at $250/mo. That's going to be nice compared to Cobra at $1,400/mo.

Another $55 a month for dental directly with our dentist's wellness plan. Includes all checkups, cleanings and x-rays. 15% coverage for procedures.

Is this b/c your income is too high? I see in NJ for a couple with income of $30k, you can get a silver epo with horizon for $100/month $200 deductible and $2700 oop. Obviously you need to structure your savings so you can keep your income low, but that price is incredible if you can.

I want a bronze plan because those seem to be the only ones that qualify for HSA contributions.
I put my income on the high end because I wanted to do as much 401k conversions as I possibly could. But, yes, I'm living on cash for the first of many years so my income is completely under my control and can be as little as I need.

Never thought about considering a hdhp for hsa contribution purposes at that stage. At the moment that's the plan I go with b/c premiums also on other plans are a lot higher (not just to get the hsa) but with such a low premium/deducible/max oop combination with those aca plans, I wasn't considering pass on that. maybe I need to think about it more. now if you're also doing it b/c of the conversion option, that certainly makes sense. i didn't consider conversions that early on since i was so locked in on getting the lowest quality healthcare but maybe that's the better option. time to whip out the calculator again.

That's exactly what I'm trying to decide right now. Let me know what you come up with!

Definitely a bronze plan for the HSA. I can manage my income so that I pay $0 for that plan if i want to. But if I do max 401k conversions up to the cliff I'd pay (round numbers) about $3,000 in premiums to convert an extra $30,000. I can convert about $40,000 in conversions and still pay $0 as it is. Just need to decide if the extra $30,000 is worth it.

 

[Peggy]

I've decided it's worth it:
1 - It's not fair to look at insurance premiums as a tax as I've always budgeted for healthcare.
2 - It's not fair to put it just against just 30K, I'm able to covert over twice that amount.
3 - It's just a few grand to get a bunch of money over into Roth to grow tax free forever.

I set the number in the marketplace closer to 70K instead of the 80K max:
1 - Put a little barrier there to make sure I don't go over the cliff.
2 - I'd rather owe the government a little money at tax time than the other way around.

 

[NutterButter]

I've decided it's worth it:
1 - It's not fair to look at insurance premiums as a tax as I've always budgeted for healthcare.
2 - It's not fair to put it just against just 30K, I'm able to covert over twice that amount.
3 - It's just a few grand to get a bunch of money over into Roth to grow tax free forever.

I set the number in the marketplace closer to 70K instead of the 80K max:
1 - Put a little barrier there to make sure I don't go over the cliff.
2 - I'd rather owe the government a little money at tax time than the other way around.

So can we compare the 2 approaches that I think you're deciding between? Approach 1 is what you're doing which seems to be higher taxable income so that you can convert more but you'll need a hdhp to keep premiums reasonable. Approach 2 is lower taxable income to get the better healthcare plan (lower deductible, lower premium) but can't convert as much. This is assuming in both cases you'll have enough in cash to live off so for this comparison that doesn't even matter and all of the taxable income gets converted.
Approach 1 you'll convert 80k with a tax hit of 5343. Looking at NJ's marketplace, the cheapest plan I can get would be a bronze epo that has 3276 in premiums with a deductible of 3300 (individual)/6600 (family) and max oop of 9300/18600.
Approach 2 you'll convert 30k with no tax hit. To compare apples to apples stuck with same provider (Oscar) . Cheapest plan is a silver epo that has 408 in premiums with a decuctible of 100/200 and max oop of 1400/2800.
If this was hypothetically for ages 60-65, you're talking converting an additional 250k with a total tax hit of 26715. In order to convert the same amount with approach 2, you'd need to wait to do so after 65 and you'd be likely doing so in the 22% bracket which means a tax hit of 55k. That's a difference of 29k in taxes paid on the conversions. With approach 2 you're saving 14340 in premiums.

So If what I stated above is correct, I think I'd sleep easier knowing that the max I'd pay in healthcare in a year for those pre-medicare years would be 3208 and that 's like worst case. You have to figure you're gonna have some medical issues even if just minor one's. All of that comes oop until you hit the deductible. All it takes is one major issue and you're financially worse off. Would love to hear your take.

ETA: I also just realized that hsa contributions don't get included in magi so that's another 8550 per year you can move from tax deferred to tax free saving you another ~9k over those 5 years.

 

[Brunell4MVP]

I'd like to ask a Soc Sec question if anyone has experience. The SSA website mostly sucks.

Wife 58 - She has hit the max Soc Sec earning for over 15 years so will get the max payout
Me 55 - We own a biz together and since she's older I always put our income as 70% towards her and 30% to me. That way we can get to it faster. So my SS is about 60% of hers.

So, does it make since to not take hers until she hits like 70? And start taking mine at 62?

Seems there should be a website where I can enter this (like a better SSA site). But I don't see one.

I'm kinda of the premise take it early and get it for more years. Why wait and chance dying, meaning we get nothing. SSA wouldn't offer the incentive to wait unless it benefitted them in some way, right?

Pardon my mistakes. I'm a newbie thinking about this stage of life.

 

[BeTheMatch]

I'd like to ask a Soc Sec question if anyone has experience. The SSA website mostly sucks.

Wife 58 - She has hit the max Soc Sec earning for over 15 years so will get the max payout
Me 55 - We own a biz together and since she's older I always put our income as 70% towards her and 30% to me. That way we can get to it faster. So my SS is about 60% of hers.

So, does it make since to not take hers until she hits like 70? And start taking mine at 62?

Seems there should be a website where I can enter this (like a better SSA site). But I don't see one.

I'm kinda of the premise take it early and get it for more years. Why wait and chance dying, meaning we get nothing. SSA wouldn't offer the incentive to wait unless it benefitted them in some way, right?

Pardon my mistakes. I'm a newbie thinking about this stage of life.

If one spouse has a lower benefit, the consensus would be for that spouse to claim at 62 and have their spouse wait till 67-70. Then if the higher-earning spouse dies first, their spouse can switch to their higher benefit at that point.

 

[Peggy]

I've decided it's worth it:
1 - It's not fair to look at insurance premiums as a tax as I've always budgeted for healthcare.
2 - It's not fair to put it just against just 30K, I'm able to covert over twice that amount.
3 - It's just a few grand to get a bunch of money over into Roth to grow tax free forever.

I set the number in the marketplace closer to 70K instead of the 80K max:
1 - Put a little barrier there to make sure I don't go over the cliff.
2 - I'd rather owe the government a little money at tax time than the other way around.

So can we compare the 2 approaches that I think you're deciding between? Approach 1 is what you're doing which seems to be higher taxable income so that you can convert more but you'll need a hdhp to keep premiums reasonable. Approach 2 is lower taxable income to get the better healthcare plan (lower deductible, lower premium) but can't convert as much. This is assuming in both cases you'll have enough in cash to live off so for this comparison that doesn't even matter and all of the taxable income gets converted.
Approach 1 you'll convert 80k with a tax hit of 5343. Looking at NJ's marketplace, the cheapest plan I can get would be a bronze epo that has 3276 in premiums with a deductible of 3300 (individual)/6600 (family) and max oop of 9300/18600.
Approach 2 you'll convert 30k with no tax hit. To compare apples to apples stuck with same provider (Oscar) . Cheapest plan is a silver epo that has 408 in premiums with a decuctible of 100/200 and max oop of 1400/2800.
If this was hypothetically for ages 60-65, you're talking converting an additional 250k with a total tax hit of 26715. In order to convert the same amount with approach 2, you'd need to wait to do so after 65 and you'd be likely doing so in the 22% bracket which means a tax hit of 55k. That's a difference of 29k in taxes paid on the conversions. With approach 2 you're saving 14340 in premiums.

So If what I stated above is correct, I think I'd sleep easier knowing that the max I'd pay in healthcare in a year for those pre-medicare years would be 3208 and that 's like worst case. You have to figure you're gonna have some medical issues even if just minor one's. All of that comes oop until you hit the deductible. All it takes is one major issue and you're financially worse off. Would love to hear your take.

ETA: I also just realized that hsa contributions don't get included in magi so that's another 8550 per year you can move from tax deferred to tax free saving you another ~9k over those 5 years.

I kinda made my decision after I zeroed in on the plan I wanted. But a couple things from your analysis:
1 - I decided on an HSA qualified plan early on. The only HSA qualified plans are bronze hdhp plans.
2 - The lowest oop I see in our marketplace of any of the plans is $12,900. I might reconsider if a plan was available with the max oop you stated. Are you sure that's correct?
3 - Minor issues are covered by co-pay not deductible. I mentioned earlier up thread, I think, that the plan I chose had co-pay for specialists even in addition to primary doctor and urgent care.
4 - Yeah it's a risk if we have big medical bills, but, we've just got all our checkups and known needed work done.

 

[Peggy]

Yeah @NutterButter you're mixed up on your numbers somewhere. I checked NJ website and the lowest Oscar silver plan max OOP is $14,800.

 

[jamny]

I'd like to ask a Soc Sec question if anyone has experience. The SSA website mostly sucks.

Wife 58 - She has hit the max Soc Sec earning for over 15 years so will get the max payout
Me 55 - We own a biz together and since she's older I always put our income as 70% towards her and 30% to me. That way we can get to it faster. So my SS is about 60% of hers.

So, does it make since to not take hers until she hits like 70? And start taking mine at 62?

Seems there should be a website where I can enter this (like a better SSA site). But I don't see one.

I'm kinda of the premise take it early and get it for more years. Why wait and chance dying, meaning we get nothing. SSA wouldn't offer the incentive to wait unless it benefitted them in some way, right?

Pardon my mistakes. I'm a newbie thinking about this stage of life.

Try this one out

And listen to Episode 106 of this podcast

 

[NutterButter]

Yeah @NutterButter you're mixed up on your numbers somewhere. I checked NJ website and the lowest Oscar silver plan max OOP is $14,800.

You just looking at hsa plans?

This is the lowest I get when putting 30k income for a couple

New photo · Saturday, Nov 8 📸

Tap to view!

photos.app.goo.gl

 

[Peggy]

Yeah @NutterButter you're mixed up on your numbers somewhere. I checked NJ website and the lowest Oscar silver plan max OOP is $14,800.

You just looking at hsa plans?

This is the lowest I get when putting 30k income for a couple

New photo · Saturday, Nov 8 📸

Tap to view!

photos.app.goo.gl

Well crap. How did i not notice the deductible changes based on income. Definitely need to revisit now. Thanks!

ETA: Cost Sharing Reductions (CSR) Apply to silver plans with MAGI between 100% and 250% FPL. And I don't think I clicked the button to look for CSRs the first few times using the marketplace.

 

[Peggy]

So it looks like those reduced deductibles more than double at just 32,000 and are back up to the $14,800 number once you cross $42,000. Manageable, but trying to stay between 30,000 and 32,000 for the lowest deductible would be like threading a needle blind folded for me.

The window I would need to hit would be between 32,000 and 42,000 that would get you deductibles of 1400/6600. My increase of premium would be $80. Would also be giving up 9K in HSA and 30-40K in 401K conversations. Still need to write it all out and compare plans side by side to get it straight in my head.

@NutterButter

 

[Peggy]

The other thing that's in my mind with a hdhp plan risk is you can change to a different plan each year if something happens and/or you need more serious medical care. I mean if it's not life threatening you schedule surgery months in advance anyway. There is opportunity there and might be a good idea to get checkups and bloodwork done near the end of the year.

 

[NutterButter]

So it looks like those reduced deductibles more than double at just 32,000 and are back up to the $14,800 number once you cross $42,000. Manageable, but trying to stay between 30,000 and 32,000 for the lowest deductible would be like threading a needle blind folded for me.

The window I would need to hit would be between 32,000 and 42,000 that would get you deductibles of 1400/6600. My increase of premium would be $80. Would also be giving up 9K in HSA and 30-40K in 401K conversations. Still need to write it all out and compare plans side by side to get it straight in my head.

@NutterButter

Yeah, there's a lot to process and I think its a personal decision based on how much you want to bet on your health holding up. And when I say health, I'm not talking anything life threatening but just normal wear and tear. That stuff can really add up when you're paying a lot of it out of pocket. I think i'd like having the peace of mind knowing that if anything goes wrong I can just go ahead and get it checked out rather than deliberating whether its worth the cost. It is pretty nuts how cheap insurance can be through the marketplace if you keep your magi low enough. I don't mind the loss of conversions b/c I think I'll be able to convert more than enough during the 65-75 window to keep rmds and irmaa in check.

 

[Peggy]

So it looks like those reduced deductibles more than double at just 32,000 and are back up to the $14,800 number once you cross $42,000. Manageable, but trying to stay between 30,000 and 32,000 for the lowest deductible would be like threading a needle blind folded for me.

The window I would need to hit would be between 32,000 and 42,000 that would get you deductibles of 1400/6600. My increase of premium would be $80. Would also be giving up 9K in HSA and 30-40K in 401K conversations. Still need to write it all out and compare plans side by side to get it straight in my head.

@NutterButter

Yeah, there's a lot to process and I think its a personal decision based on how much you want to bet on your health holding up. And when I say health, I'm not talking anything life threatening but just normal wear and tear. That stuff can really add up when you're paying a lot of it out of pocket. I think i'd like having the peace of mind knowing that if anything goes wrong I can just go ahead and get it checked out rather than deliberating whether its worth the cost. It is pretty nuts how cheap insurance can be through the marketplace if you keep your magi low enough. I don't mind the loss of conversions b/c I think I'll be able to convert more than enough during the 65-75 window to keep rmds and irmaa in check.

10-4 good buddy. The more I think about it the less worried I am about RMDs. For me it's paying a low tax rate when I can and maximizing the number of years it grows tax free.