The 2009 K Thread (1 Viewer)

[Tecumseh]

After they waived their 45 year old kicker, John Carney...the coach, GM, whoever was smart enough to not leave him out there so another team could sign him and bring him in; for the sole reason of likely trying to extract information he would obviously have about their offense and game plans.

Instead the Saints hired Carney as a football consultant for the rest of the year. Brilliant on their part and certainly one of those things you have to give some kudos out to.

Too bad Childress didn't grab him for that purpose for a possible NFC title game.He would have been Chili consultant Carney

Shut it down.

 

[Couch Potato]

After they waived their 45 year old kicker, John Carney...the coach, GM, whoever was smart enough to not leave him out there so another team could sign him and bring him in; for the sole reason of likely trying to extract information he would obviously have about their offense and game plans.

Instead the Saints hired Carney as a football consultant for the rest of the year. Brilliant on their part and certainly one of those things you have to give some kudos out to.

Too bad Childress didn't grab him for that purpose for a possible NFC title game.He would have been Chili consultant Carney

Shut it down.

Humorless Grinch.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

After they waived their 45 year old kicker, John Carney...the coach, GM, whoever was smart enough to not leave him out there so another team could sign him and bring him in; for the sole reason of likely trying to extract information he would obviously have about their offense and game plans.

Instead the Saints hired Carney as a football consultant for the rest of the year. Brilliant on their part and certainly one of those things you have to give some kudos out to.

Too bad Childress didn't grab him for that purpose for a possible NFC title game.He would have been Chili consultant Carney

Shut it down.

Dude took a risk. Not all risks pay off, but he made the effort. I say kudos.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I figure the move has little or nothing to do with game planning. Sure, Carney has been around and could have some info, but kickers are not notorious for being in offensive or defensive meetings or for watching practice. They pretty much hang to the side and drill.

I figure they did not want Dallas, who is looking at kickers, to sign him and have Carney end up beating them in the playoffs.

 

[J R]

I know picking on these kinds of arguments is way too easy and there are tons of these threads, but it always amazes me when someone makes this argument here, because the reason it's wrong is implicit in that really old essay on VBD written by Joe. It seems like it should be elementary reading before posting in the so-called shark pool.

Please explain how the argument is wrong based on that VDB article...

Sure. From the article:
In Summary, if you only remember two things, remember this:

1. The object of the game is not to score a ton of points, but to outscore the opponent.

Implicit here is that those are two different things.

You're taking his quote out of context, though in your defense it isn't worded very well. Being an article on VDB, it should read more like "With each draft pick, the object is not to take the player who will score the most points, but the player who will outscore your opponant by the most points." But his point is made within the context of drafting, not within the context of a single fantasy football game. Irregardless, I'd argue that the entire purpose of VDB IS to score the most possible points. It's just that in order to do that, you sometimes need to draft a player who will score 50 points earlier than a player who will score 100. If you apply VDB perfectly, you WILL score a ton of points... in fact, you'll score the most possible points.

How is applying a statement that begins "the object of the game" to deciding how best to win a game taking something out of context? Even if you consider "game" to mean an entire season, a season is still made up of individual games.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

i think I am. Just cut Jay Cutler for him.

 

[coolnerd]

After they waived their 45 year old kicker, John Carney...the coach, GM, whoever was smart enough to not leave him out there so another team could sign him and bring him in; for the sole reason of likely trying to extract information he would obviously have about their offense and game plans.

Instead the Saints hired Carney as a football consultant for the rest of the year. Brilliant on their part and certainly one of those things you have to give some kudos out to.

Too bad Childress didn't grab him for that purpose for a possible NFC title game.He would have been Chili consultant Carney

Shut it down.

Dude took a risk. Not all risks pay off, but he made the effort. I say kudos.

Kudos for effort, awful excution. He went way out of the way to set -up that line.

 

[urbanhack]

I'm not buying it.

 

[parasaurolophus]

I figure the move has little or nothing to do with game planning. Sure, Carney has been around and could have some info, but kickers are not notorious for being in offensive or defensive meetings or for watching practice. They pretty much hang to the side and drill.I figure they did not want Dallas, who is looking at kickers, to sign him and have Carney end up beating them in the playoffs.

the packers have said they arent, but they have to at least be thinking about it.

 

[KellysHeroes]

Maybe their keeping him around because he helped them out while the other PK was suspended for using... and if they win a ring even an NFC Championship Carney should get his as well.

 

[wildbill]

I figure they did not want Dallas, who is looking at kickers, to sign him and have Carney end up beating them in the playoffs.

I think this is the correct answer.

 

[texasbirdfan]

I figure they did not want Dallas, who is looking at kickers, to sign him and have Carney end up beating them in the playoffs.

I think this is the correct answer.

However, like the OP said- he knows something about the Saints operations besides

 

[fasteddie_21]

Benched the guy who I rode all year (Kaeding) for My Bironas, based on the rankings this week. Pretty please don't backfire!

 

[Arch Stanton]

I figure they did not want Dallas, who is looking at kickers, to sign him and have Carney end up beating them in the playoffs.

I think this is the correct answer.

However, like the OP said- he knows something about the Saints operations besides

Probably a negligible amount. Film study will yield immeasurably more info than insight a kicker, a fill in kicker to boot, will have on the current Saints offense.

 

[massraider]

Please.

Carney was kept from disclosing his favorite golf courses in great New Orleans.

If anyone wanted the info, they can just sign an actual football player from the PS.

 

[gheemony]

Benched the guy who I rode all year (Kaeding) for My Bironas, based on the rankings this week. Pretty please don't backfire!

Dead even if you get 4 pts for his 46 yarder.

 

[PoolShark]

I know picking on these kinds of arguments is way too easy and there are tons of these threads, but it always amazes me when someone makes this argument here, because the reason it's wrong is implicit in that really old essay on VBD written by Joe. It seems like it should be elementary reading before posting in the so-called shark pool.

Please explain how the argument is wrong based on that VDB article...

Sure. From the article:
In Summary, if you only remember two things, remember this:

1. The object of the game is not to score a ton of points, but to outscore the opponent.

Implicit here is that those are two different things.

You're taking his quote out of context, though in your defense it isn't worded very well. Being an article on VDB, it should read more like "With each draft pick, the object is not to take the player who will score the most points, but the player who will outscore your opponant by the most points." But his point is made within the context of drafting, not within the context of a single fantasy football game. Irregardless, I'd argue that the entire purpose of VDB IS to score the most possible points. It's just that in order to do that, you sometimes need to draft a player who will score 50 points earlier than a player who will score 100. If you apply VDB perfectly, you WILL score a ton of points... in fact, you'll score the most possible points.

How is applying a statement that begins "the object of the game" to deciding how best to win a game taking something out of context? Even if you consider "game" to mean an entire season, a season is still made up of individual games.

I thought I explained that fairly well in my second paragraph, which you seem to be overlooking. The acticle is about VDB drafting, not individual games or even an entire season. Once the season starts, VDB drafting is useless. You're taking a comment made in an article about VDB drafting & applying it elsewhere. That is out of context. In Joe's "object of the game" comment, "the game" could quite possibly just refer to "the draft." That fits quite well considering the article is only about drafting. In fact, if you read his comment like that, it sounds pretty close to how I said it could have been worded more clearly.

Why would he make a comment saying you don't want to score a ton of points when the entire point of the article is to help you draft a team that WILL score the most possible points? If you do this perfectly, outscoring your opponent follows by default. In fact, if you take his comment in context (with "the game" meaning an individual game or the entire season), it makes no sense. If you score a ton of points & your opponent scores a ton and a half, your VDB drafting didn't work properly. If it does work, you should be the highest scoring team & therefore more likely considered to be "scoring a ton of points" than anyone else in your league.

 

[houston]

I assume Tynes is fine for Sunday? I see he practiced on Thursday.

 

[editor47]

Benched the guy who I rode all year (Kaeding) for My Bironas, based on the rankings this week. Pretty please don't backfire!

Dead even if you get 4 pts for his 46 yarder.

one of the rules i do like in my most important league is that FGs are 1 or 2. no more.

 

[BRONG]

I don't know what Payton is thinking. He has a Super Bowl team and his kicker is a total wreck; something he could fix now. I don't get the denial, besides not wanting to rattle Carney's f'd up head even more.

I suspect that Payton and/or the organization is still spooked by all the kicking woes they experienced after the last time they dumped Carney (despite the fact that Hartley was the one exception during the latter part of last year).

Then they should be trying out other kickers. I can understand the coachspeak, but not addressing a potential big problem, I don't get.So what's up with Bironas?

That was Carney's first missed FG in five games. I'm not sure Payton views this as a major problem. Again, if Carney has another game like he had against NE things could change and there's no question Carney did not look good Monday night. But it's not like he's been missing FGs left and right this season. That leads me to continue to believe Payton will stick with him unless he begins to have some issues on a more consistent basis.

This is why I love packersfan so much.

 

[MNTom]

If somebody is looking for a kicker this week, Dan Carpenter might be a nice option. At home, he has almost been averaging around 10 points per game and has not had less than 7. While on the road,he has been averaging about 5. This week they play Houston at home.

 

[Mike Herman]

Former Shepherd University kicker Ricky Schmitt's 49ers NFL debut wasn't perfect, but it was awful close. http://bit.ly/5d2JTy 18 minutes ago from TweetDeck

David Akers hit a 28 yard game winning FG with four seconds remaining as Philadelphia beat Denver 30-27. #NFL about 12 hours ago from TweetDeck

"It was all me, the snap and hold were great; I just rushed myself." - New Orleans Saints kicker Garrett Hartley http://bit.ly/8OCVST #NFL about 12 hours ago from TweetDeck

Connor Barth made a 47 yard FG in overtime as Tampa Bay beat New Orleans 20-17. #NFL about 15 hours ago from TweetDeck

Jeff Reed's 38 yard FG with 5:25 remaining proves to be the game winner in Pittsburgh's 23-20 win over Baltimore. #NFL about 15 hours ago from TweetDeck

Sebastian Janikowski accounts for all of the Raiders scoring today, with FGs of 44, 34, and 61 yards. #NFL about 15 hours ago from TweetDeck

Twenty questions with Detroit Lions kicker Jason Hanson http://bit.ly/8Ijjkq #NFL 7:34 AM Dec

 

[Mike Herman]

Aussie kicker pulls off big hit in NFL http://bit.ly/4s3dSL less than a minute ago from TweetDeck

Oakland Raiders kicker Sebastian Janikowski Dials Long Distance http://bit.ly/5nWL0R #NFL 2 minutes ago from TweetDeck



Atlanta Falcons uncertain about kicking situation http://bit.ly/6gDL0N #NFL 4 minutes ago from TweetDeck

Tamp Bay Buccaneers head coach Raheem Morris discusses kicker Connor Barth http://bit.ly/5CpyqM #NFL 5 minutes ago from TweetDeck

New Orleans Saints Coach Sean Payton expresses confidence in kicker Garrett Hartley http://bit.ly/7Zu4XY #NFL 8 minutes ago from TweetDeck

Chiefs Long Snapper Thomas Gafford Talks About Errant Snap http://bit.ly/7gQ1DC #NFL 9 minutes ago from TweetDeck

 

[Mike Herman]

Kickology blog: NFL Week 16 K Quotes

 

[Mike Herman]

2010 Pro Bowl punters - AFC: Shane Lechler, Oakland; NFC: Andy Lee, San Francisco 2 minutes ago from TweetDeck

2010 Pro Bowl kickers - AFC: Nate Kaeding, San Diego; NFC: David Akers, Philadelphia 3 minutes ago from TweetDeck

RT @Adam_Schefter: Falcons signed K Steve Hauschka about 4 hours ago from TweetDeck

 

[Mike Herman]

David Akers needs one point Sunday to become first kicker and 2nd player in NFL history to score 140+ points in consecutive seasons about 1 hour ago from TweetDeck

Atlanta Falcons kicker Matt Bryant (hamstring) and punter Michael Koenen (head) did not practice today http://bit.ly/8CVG1m #NFL about 5 hours ago from TweetDeck

RT @Adam_Schefter: Broncos signed rookie punter Britton Colquitt to their active roster from Miami’s practice squad. #NFL about 6 hours ago from TweetDeck

 

[Mike Herman]

Some kickers using narrower goal posts at practice http://bit.ly/6mGqbU #NFL 10 minutes ago from TweetDeck

Atlanta Falcons kicker Matt Bryant returns to practice with heavy heart http://bit.ly/66W9I2 #NFL 11 minutes ago from TweetDeck

Atlanta Falcons Q & A: Kicker Steve Hauschka, insurance policy http://bit.ly/6nqxrq #NFL 12 minutes ago from TweetDeck

Rob Bironas Fund donates saxophone http://bit.ly/5rejZt about 11 hours ago from TweetDeck

Josh McDaniels says Mitch Berger to remain Broncos punter http://bit.ly/5wSubg #NFL about 21 hours ago

 

[Mike Herman]

Unless he has a setback, Arizona Cardinals kicker Neil Rackers likely will play Sunday against the Packers. http://bit.ly/4Yjejk #NFL 7 minutes ago from TweetDeck

49ers' will evaluate Ricky Schmitt (tweaked groin) this morning before deciding whether to sign a kicker for Sunday. http://bit.ly/5USZtW 11 minutes ago from TweetDeck

 

[editor47]

what do you think of garrett hartley this week?

 

[WFR]

What are the thoughts on Dan Carpenter, MIA in dynasty leagues?

 

[Mike Herman]

Baltimore Ravens Billy Cundiff's kicking future on hold http://bit.ly/6JqqL0 #NFL 3 minutes ago from TweetDeck

Kansas City Chiefs head coach Todd Haley discusses kicker Ryan Succop http://bit.ly/4SvyNw #NFL 15 minutes ago from TweetDeck

49ers sign kicker Shane Andrus http://bit.ly/8ZX1TG #NFL 19 minutes ago from TweetDeck

Dallas Cowboys kicker Shaun Suisham earning Wade Phillips' trust http://bit.ly/4UMycl #NFL about 15 hours ago from TweetDeck

Indianapolis Colts will carry both kickers (Adam Vinatieri and Matt Stover) through the regular-season finale. http://bit.ly/6eqssw #NFL about 15 hours ago from TweetDeck

 

[Mike Herman]

Q&A with Jeremy Kapinos, Green Bay Packers punter/holder http://bit.ly/69TMdl #NFL 8 minutes ago from TweetDeck

Indianapolis Colts kicker Adam Vinatieri will not make the trip to Buffalo for Sunday's game. http://bit.ly/7Geh9d #NFL 9 minutes ago from TweetDeck

RT @Adam_Schefter: Cardinals released kicker Mike Nugent. 14 minutes ago from TweetDeck