The 2009 K Thread (1 Viewer)

[Pickle Rody]

Interesting and very informative article by Chase here. I'm definitely looking forward to parts 2 & 3. I know I'll be viewing the kicking game (and decisions made in that regard by Head Coaches) a little different this year.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Interesting and very informative article by Chase here. I'm definitely looking forward to parts 2 & 3. I know I'll be viewing the kicking game (and decisions made in that regard by Head Coaches) a little different this year.

Thanks, Ruffrody.To some extent I think the final results will be noncontroversial, as really, I don't know anyone who has ever ranked kickers. There's certainly nowhere near a consensus on who the top 5 kickers of all time are, even among hardcore football fans. I'm expecting a lot less pushback then on an article on the Greatest QBs Ever, for example . That said, because of the independent nature of the position, I think ranking kickers is also a lot easier (once you figure out the right way to rank them) than ranking QBs.

 

[Mike Herman]

DALLAS

Kicker Nick Folk took a significant step in his rehab from hip surgery by doing some light running around the track during this morning's practice.

link

 

[Mike Herman]

Interesting and very informative article by Chase here. I'm definitely looking forward to parts 2 & 3. I know I'll be viewing the kicking game (and decisions made in that regard by Head Coaches) a little different this year.

Thanks, Ruffrody.To some extent I think the final results will be noncontroversial, as really, I don't know anyone who has ever ranked kickers. There's certainly nowhere near a consensus on who the top 5 kickers of all time are, even among hardcore football fans. I'm expecting a lot less pushback then on an article on the Greatest QBs Ever, for example . That said, because of the independent nature of the position, I think ranking kickers is also a lot easier (once you figure out the right way to rank them) than ranking QBs.

I'm not too sure about that. Things could get pretty heated once this gets rolling.

 

[bcr8f]

It's finally here, the PFR blog post we've all been waiting for (or at least that I have been waiting for)...

The Greatest Field Goal Kickers Ever, Part I - by Chase Stuart

* 1999: K-ball implemented for all kicking plays in a game

It's been 10 years?

 

[Mike Herman]

It's finally here, the PFR blog post we've all been waiting for (or at least that I have been waiting for)...

The Greatest Field Goal Kickers Ever, Part I - by Chase Stuart

* 1999: K-ball implemented for all kicking plays in a game

It's been 10 years?

Time flies when you're kicking a brick. It's actually now been around long enough to have the rules tweaked twice (2002 and 2007).

 

[Mike Herman]

LINK: The Greatest Field Goal Kickers Ever, Part II

We’re going to examine every attempt from every distance (in ten-yard increments) in every year and compare each kicker to the league average. A missed 50-yard field goal in 1965 was very common; a missed 36-yard field goal today is very rare. My method adjusts all kicks for distance and era. Further, we’re not going to just consider the ability of the kicker but also his value to the team — missing a 50-yard field goal is more costly to a team than missing a 20-yard field goal because of the cost in field position. We can do that with the help of Professor Romer. To be clear, this won’t be perfect — kickers in Denver and domed stadiums have an advantage, while kickers who play a bunch of games in particularly tough environments will be at a disadvantage. But this sure beats the heck out of every other method to rank kickers...

 

[Chase Stuart]

Thanks, Mike. I'm a little worried that we're going to crash the PFR server here.

 

[Mike Herman]

Thanks, Mike. I'm a little worried that we're going to crash the PFR server here.

I'm just glad that after nine months you finally decided to take that risk. I'm sure that was a tough decision given the negativity towards the subject previously established by Mr. Drinen. In the end, you've done the right thing.

 

[Mike Herman]

DALLAS

Last week Nick Folk started jogging in his rehab from hip surgery and next week he moves up to kicking a volleyball. "Feels awesome," Folk said. "I can't complain. It's more tired than anything else. It's not like it's sore, just tired." Folk said he will return to Vail, Colo., on Saturday for a checkup with Dr. Marc Philippon, who performed the surgery. Folk will progress from a volleyball to a soccer ball to kicking off a tee and said he will be ready to go for training camp.

link

 

[Mike Herman]

BALTIMORE

Rookie camp sure may not be the most thrilling thing in the world to watch, but it gives you a chance to see a little more of the guys who normally creep under the radar during full-squad practices.... Kicker Graham Gano is getting plenty of solo work this week with Steve Hauschka not around, and he's making the most of the opportunity. Gano booted through a 60-yarder mid-way through practice, and did so with some players and coaches talking trash in his ear to try and distract him.

linkNY GIANTS

K Lawrence Tynes missed wide left from 27 yards away. It was a low snap from DT/LS Jay Alford, but P Jeff Feagles did a good job to get it down in time.

link

 

[CalBear]

Interesting and very informative article by Chase here. I'm definitely looking forward to parts 2 & 3. I know I'll be viewing the kicking game (and decisions made in that regard by Head Coaches) a little different this year.

Thanks, Ruffrody.To some extent I think the final results will be noncontroversial, as really, I don't know anyone who has ever ranked kickers. There's certainly nowhere near a consensus on who the top 5 kickers of all time are, even among hardcore football fans. I'm expecting a lot less pushback then on an article on the Greatest QBs Ever, for example . That said, because of the independent nature of the position, I think ranking kickers is also a lot easier (once you figure out the right way to rank them) than ranking QBs.

I think if you're trying to measure the "greatness" of the kicker, it's incorrect to take into consideration the rules on where the ball will be placed if the FG is missed. A 50-yard FG is a 50-yard FG, whether in 1988 or 2008; the position of the ball afterwards has no bearing on how the kicker performed.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Interesting and very informative article by Chase here. I'm definitely looking forward to parts 2 & 3. I know I'll be viewing the kicking game (and decisions made in that regard by Head Coaches) a little different this year.

Thanks, Ruffrody.To some extent I think the final results will be noncontroversial, as really, I don't know anyone who has ever ranked kickers. There's certainly nowhere near a consensus on who the top 5 kickers of all time are, even among hardcore football fans. I'm expecting a lot less pushback then on an article on the Greatest QBs Ever, for example . That said, because of the independent nature of the position, I think ranking kickers is also a lot easier (once you figure out the right way to rank them) than ranking QBs.

I think if you're trying to measure the "greatness" of the kicker, it's incorrect to take into consideration the rules on where the ball will be placed if the FG is missed. A 50-yard FG is a 50-yard FG, whether in 1988 or 2008; the position of the ball afterwards has no bearing on how the kicker performed.

But it has an impact on the value of the kicker to the team. And the kicker knows beforehand where the ball will be placed following a miss. All this formula really does is put a bigger premium on the longer kicks, something that should not be controversial.(And a 50-yard FG in 1988 is not the same as one in 2008. It's much more common to see successful 50-yarders today.)

 

[CalBear]

Interesting and very informative article by Chase here. I'm definitely looking forward to parts 2 & 3. I know I'll be viewing the kicking game (and decisions made in that regard by Head Coaches) a little different this year.

Thanks, Ruffrody.To some extent I think the final results will be noncontroversial, as really, I don't know anyone who has ever ranked kickers. There's certainly nowhere near a consensus on who the top 5 kickers of all time are, even among hardcore football fans. I'm expecting a lot less pushback then on an article on the Greatest QBs Ever, for example . That said, because of the independent nature of the position, I think ranking kickers is also a lot easier (once you figure out the right way to rank them) than ranking QBs.

I think if you're trying to measure the "greatness" of the kicker, it's incorrect to take into consideration the rules on where the ball will be placed if the FG is missed. A 50-yard FG is a 50-yard FG, whether in 1988 or 2008; the position of the ball afterwards has no bearing on how the kicker performed.

But it has an impact on the value of the kicker to the team. And the kicker knows beforehand where the ball will be placed following a miss. All this formula really does is put a bigger premium on the longer kicks, something that should not be controversial.(And a 50-yard FG in 1988 is not the same as one in 2008. It's much more common to see successful 50-yarders today.)

A kick is a discrete event; the consequences are irrelevant to the performance of the kicker. Someone who kicked a FG back when they were worth 4 points isn't a better kicker just because his kick was worth more, and someone who misses a kick in the 7-yards-back era isn't a worse kicker just because the consequences of his miss are greater.And controlling for era also seems wrong for discrete events. If it's much more common to see successful 50-yarders today, it must be because today's kickers are better (if you've controlled for domes).

 

[Mike Herman]

LINK: The Greatest Field Goal Kickers Ever, Part III

Career rankings, HOF thoughts, and trivia answers.

 

[CalBear]

Here's an example of what I see as the fallacy of adjusting for eras. Garo Yepremian comes up very high on the career list, while Ryan Longwell is at #32. Ryan Longwell made over 80% of his field goals, and 99% of his extra points, kicking in Green Bay 8 games a year, plus a game at Soldier Field. Is Garo Yepremian, who made just 67.1% of his field goals and 95.7% of his extra points (20 missed extra points for his career) really a better kicker than Longwell? I don't think the argument "kickers in 1972 missed more extra points than kickers in 2002, therefore Yepremian is better" makes any sense; it's the exact same play, a kick from the middle of the field inside the 10 yard line. If kickers today make more extra points, they're better than kickers in 1972.

 

[Mike Herman]

HOUSTON

NFL sources told FOX 26 Sports Wednesday kicker Kris Brown has agreed to terms on a four-year extension. Brown, one of the most accurate kickers in the NFL, has one-year left on his contract. So his new deal ties him to the franchise through the 2013-2014 season. League sources told FOX 26 Brown's extension is worth $10 million, with $2.5 million guaranteed. Last season Brown connected on 29-33 field goal attempts for 89.7%. Brown is one of two original Texans on the Houston roster. He signed as a free agent with the team prior to the 2002 season.

link

 

[Chase Stuart]

Here's an example of what I see as the fallacy of adjusting for eras. Garo Yepremian comes up very high on the career list, while Ryan Longwell is at #32. Ryan Longwell made over 80% of his field goals, and 99% of his extra points, kicking in Green Bay 8 games a year, plus a game at Soldier Field. Is Garo Yepremian, who made just 67.1% of his field goals and 95.7% of his extra points (20 missed extra points for his career) really a better kicker than Longwell? I don't think the argument "kickers in 1972 missed more extra points than kickers in 2002, therefore Yepremian is better" makes any sense; it's the exact same play, a kick from the middle of the field inside the 10 yard line. If kickers today make more extra points, they're better than kickers in 1972.

Do you think Jesse Owens is one of the 50 best runners of all time?(Also, Yepremian led the NFL in FG% three times and Longwell never did, although that isn't a very good statistic as it's very susceptible to Simpson's paradox.)

 

[CalBear]

Here's an example of what I see as the fallacy of adjusting for eras. Garo Yepremian comes up very high on the career list, while Ryan Longwell is at #32. Ryan Longwell made over 80% of his field goals, and 99% of his extra points, kicking in Green Bay 8 games a year, plus a game at Soldier Field. Is Garo Yepremian, who made just 67.1% of his field goals and 95.7% of his extra points (20 missed extra points for his career) really a better kicker than Longwell? I don't think the argument "kickers in 1972 missed more extra points than kickers in 2002, therefore Yepremian is better" makes any sense; it's the exact same play, a kick from the middle of the field inside the 10 yard line. If kickers today make more extra points, they're better than kickers in 1972.

Do you think Jesse Owens is one of the 50 best runners of all time?

Do I think running is comparable to kicking extra points in terms of athletic accomplishment? No. Runners today have numerous advantages over the runners of Owens' time, including nutrition, equipment, and track surface. Whereas a guy kicking extra points at Lambeau Field is a guy kicking extra points at Lambeau Field.

(Also, Yepremian led the NFL in FG% three times and Longwell never did, although that isn't a very good statistic as it's very susceptible to Simpson's paradox.)

That's because there are a lot of kickers who are better than Yepremian.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Here's an example of what I see as the fallacy of adjusting for eras. Garo Yepremian comes up very high on the career list, while Ryan Longwell is at #32. Ryan Longwell made over 80% of his field goals, and 99% of his extra points, kicking in Green Bay 8 games a year, plus a game at Soldier Field. Is Garo Yepremian, who made just 67.1% of his field goals and 95.7% of his extra points (20 missed extra points for his career) really a better kicker than Longwell? I don't think the argument "kickers in 1972 missed more extra points than kickers in 2002, therefore Yepremian is better" makes any sense; it's the exact same play, a kick from the middle of the field inside the 10 yard line. If kickers today make more extra points, they're better than kickers in 1972.

Do you think Jesse Owens is one of the 50 best runners of all time?

Do I think running is comparable to kicking extra points in terms of athletic accomplishment? No. Runners today have numerous advantages over the runners of Owens' time, including nutrition, equipment, and track surface. Whereas a guy kicking extra points at Lambeau Field is a guy kicking extra points at Lambeau Field.

(Also, Yepremian led the NFL in FG% three times and Longwell never did, although that isn't a very good statistic as it's very susceptible to Simpson's paradox.)

That's because there are a lot of kickers who are better than Yepremian.

 

[CalBear]

(Also, Yepremian led the NFL in FG% three times and Longwell never did, although that isn't a very good statistic as it's very susceptible to Simpson's paradox.)

That's because there are a lot of kickers who are better than Yepremian.

A large number of kickers today are better than all the kickers from Yepremian's era. Stenerud succeeded on just 66.8% of his kicks and 96.5% of his XPs. In 1971 he went 22/46, followed up by 21/36 in 1972; on any current NFL team, he probably would have been fired after the first year and certainly during the second. Yepremian led the league in 1971 by making 75.9% of his field goals; Longwell has done better than 80% in 10 of his 12 years in the league. The fact that Longwell has performed so much better than Stenerud, and still not led the league in percentage, indicates that a large number of players are performing better than Stenerud did.Kicking field goals is a lot more like shooting free throws than it is like running a 100m dash. If you look at NBA free throw shooting, the percentages for the top shooters look about the same in the 1970s as today. Calvin Murphy still holds the free throw percentage record, with 95.8% in 1981. In almost every other way the modern NBA game has evolved from what it was in the 1970s, but these discrete events have remained the same.

Today's kickers are just better.

 

[Chase Stuart]

(Also, Yepremian led the NFL in FG% three times and Longwell never did, although that isn't a very good statistic as it's very susceptible to Simpson's paradox.)

That's because there are a lot of kickers who are better than Yepremian.

A large number of kickers today are better than all the kickers from Yepremian's era. Stenerud succeeded on just 66.8% of his kicks and 96.5% of his XPs. In 1971 he went 22/46, followed up by 21/36 in 1972; on any current NFL team, he probably would have been fired after the first year and certainly during the second. Yepremian led the league in 1971 by making 75.9% of his field goals; Longwell has done better than 80% in 10 of his 12 years in the league. The fact that Longwell has performed so much better than Stenerud, and still not led the league in percentage, indicates that a large number of players are performing better than Stenerud did.Kicking field goals is a lot more like shooting free throws than it is like running a 100m dash. If you look at NBA free throw shooting, the percentages for the top shooters look about the same in the 1970s as today. Calvin Murphy still holds the free throw percentage record, with 95.8% in 1981. In almost every other way the modern NBA game has evolved from what it was in the 1970s, but these discrete events have remained the same.

Today's kickers are just better.

I have no doubt that today's kickers are better. That said, things for modern kickers are much easier:1) Hashes moved in (1972)

2) More domed stadiums

3) More warm weather teams

4) Better surfaces

5) Better holders/snappers

6) More resources (time/money) available to devote to improving kicking percentages

7) Addition of kickoff specialists means teams can kick field goals with their more accurate kicker

 

[CalBear]

I have no doubt that today's kickers are better. That said, things for modern kickers are much easier:1) Hashes moved in (1972)2) More domed stadiums3) More warm weather teams4) Better surfaces5) Better holders/snappers6) More resources (time/money) available to devote to improving kicking percentages7) Addition of kickoff specialists means teams can kick field goals with their more accurate kicker

Almost none of these apply to Ryan Longwell; Yepremian played in Miami, Longwell played outdoors in Green Bay. Yepremian had, on average, better surfaces and more warm weather games than Longwell. Longwell never played with a kickoff specialist. What resources do you devote to improving kicking percentages? A guy to catch the ball and throw it back to the kicker?

 

[Chase Stuart]

I have no doubt that today's kickers are better. That said, things for modern kickers are much easier:1) Hashes moved in (1972)2) More domed stadiums3) More warm weather teams4) Better surfaces5) Better holders/snappers6) More resources (time/money) available to devote to improving kicking percentages7) Addition of kickoff specialists means teams can kick field goals with their more accurate kicker

Almost none of these apply to Ryan Longwell; Yepremian played in Miami, Longwell played outdoors in Green Bay. Yepremian had, on average, better surfaces and more warm weather games than Longwell. Longwell never played with a kickoff specialist. What resources do you devote to improving kicking percentages? A guy to catch the ball and throw it back to the kicker?

Special teams coaches, for example. I'm sure kickers spend significantly more time reviewing film of kicking, etc.I believe all players can only be compared to their peers; it's unfair to compare players from one era to players from another without seeing how far each player distanced himself from his peers.

 

[CalBear]

I believe all players can only be compared to their peers; it's unfair to compare players from one era to players from another without seeing how far each player distanced himself from his peers.

I can agree with both of those statements. What I can't agree with is a list of "Greatest Field Goal Kickers Ever" which is artificially weighted to benefit people who kicked before 1994. Kickers perform far better now than they ever have before, so when you put out a list of the top 50 kicker seasons of all time, and only one in the top 50 is from an active kicker, you've failed the smell test. Horst Muhlmann going 25/37 (67.6%) in 1970 is somehow better than Jason Elam going 29/31 (93.5%) in 2008? It's ridiculous.

 

[Chase Stuart]

I believe all players can only be compared to their peers; it's unfair to compare players from one era to players from another without seeing how far each player distanced himself from his peers.

I can agree with both of those statements. What I can't agree with is a list of "Greatest Field Goal Kickers Ever" which is artificially weighted to benefit people who kicked before 1994. Kickers perform far better now than they ever have before, so when you put out a list of the top 50 kicker seasons of all time, and only one in the top 50 is from an active kicker, you've failed the smell test. Horst Muhlmann going 25/37 (67.6%) in 1970 is somehow better than Jason Elam going 29/31 (93.5%) in 2008? It's ridiculous.

Would you agree that a great kicker in 1970 was more valuable than a great kicker today?(Note: I do not know whether Muhlmann in '70 was better than Elam last year; 2008 data were excluded from my study.)

 

[CalBear]

I believe all players can only be compared to their peers; it's unfair to compare players from one era to players from another without seeing how far each player distanced himself from his peers.

I can agree with both of those statements. What I can't agree with is a list of "Greatest Field Goal Kickers Ever" which is artificially weighted to benefit people who kicked before 1994. Kickers perform far better now than they ever have before, so when you put out a list of the top 50 kicker seasons of all time, and only one in the top 50 is from an active kicker, you've failed the smell test. Horst Muhlmann going 25/37 (67.6%) in 1970 is somehow better than Jason Elam going 29/31 (93.5%) in 2008? It's ridiculous.

Would you agree that a great kicker in 1970 was more valuable than a great kicker today?(Note: I do not know whether Muhlmann in '70 was better than Elam last year; 2008 data were excluded from my study.)

No, I wouldn't agree that a great kicker in 1970 is more valuable than a great kicker today. Frankly, if the best kickers are going to miss a third of their field goals, it might be a better idea to just go for it on fourth down.

 

[Mike Herman]

KANSAS CITY

The Chiefs and seventh-round pick Ryan Succop have agreed to terms of a three-year contract that the kicker will sign Thursday morning, Succop's agent, Joel Turner, told The Star on Wednesday afternoon. Turner said the sides agreed to terms today, but a Chiefs employee had to leave team headquarters early Wednesday, delaying the signing another day. Turner would not reveal the amount of Succop's impending deal, but media organizations in South Carolina, where Succop played college football, reported that the contract will be worth $1.2 million. Succop will be the first player in the Chiefs' eight-pick draft class. But he was the last player drafted, known playfully as Mr. Irrelevant. He was with the team throughout offseason practice and is expected to compete in training camp with second-year kicker Connor Barth for the Chiefs' kicking job.

linkCLEVELAND

Browns Assistant Head Coach/Special Teams Coordinator Brad Seely Press Conference

(On his thought on Phil Dawson and Joshua Cribbs)

Both of them are obviously very important. I've been fortunate enough to play in four Super Bowls and every one of them was decided by three points or less. The field goal kicking is an upmost necessity on a good football team. Phil brings that to the table. Here's a guy that has done it for a long time in a really tough place to kick. I think he is one of the unsung kickers in this league in a sense that this guy has been really good for a long period of time in a tough environment.

(On if Phil Dawson is like Adam Vinatieri)

That is an interesting question. In fact if you go back in Phil's history and Phil will tell you this too, he was on the practice squad for the Patriots with Adam. I am sure he took a lot of stuff when he was younger from Adam and I'd say they're very similar in a sense that both are very good outdoor kickers and both perform well under pressure.

linkDALLAS

When the Cowboys surprised everyone back in April and used a fifth-round pick on a kickoff specialist, Nick Folk said he was excited. And not just for one reason, but more like three. For starters, Folk said he was genuinely happy to see the Cowboys select David Buehler, whom he worked with some four years ago at a kicking camp in California. Secondly, with Folk knowing he would likely need hip/labral surgery, which he had on May, he knew the addition of Buehler wouldn't force Folk to rush back from the injury. But another reason Folk is excited about having another kicker on the squad is the thing that drives all players in all sports. "Competition," Folk said. "That's what it's about right there. I love to compete."

Folk admits being bothered to some degree that he's been "written off" as the kickoff specialist. While that is certainly the strongest part of Buehler's game, Folk said he's not giving in without a friendly battle. "If he beats me, then he beats me. Hopefully we'll have a good competition," said Folk, who is hoping to return to full kicking duties by the start of training camp on July 28. "But it's probably a good thing that he's here right now. It gives me some extra time to ease into things 100 percent. But I don't know what percentage I'll be at when we get to camp." Folk, who battled the nagging pain in his right hip area in the second half of last season, said it got to a point where he knew surgery was the only option. "It's been an ongoing thing for a while," Folk said of the pain. "Hopefully, we'll be ready for training camp. But I'm just trying to take it slow. I go back to Vail, (Colo.) on Saturday and get checked out again. I'll start kicking a volleyball on Monday and we'll see how that works out. Then I'll kick a soccer ball, from there I'll go to a football off the tee."

Folk said the idea in kicking smaller-sized balls is to get his body used to the kicking motion again, but doing so with less force against his leg. "It's just less pressure on my leg," he said. "I haven't done that motion in a while. So I'm just trying to ease back into things." While that sounds easy enough and is probably the smart thing to do coming back from injury, staying patient is difficult for Folk, who not only is ready to compete at the kicker position, but wants to prove wrong his critics that believe he struggled last year. Although he made 20-of-22 field goals, Folk knows the perception of his 2008 season, which followed a Pro Bowl rookie season in 2007, was due in large part to his struggles on kickoffs. Folk did not have a touchback last year and led the league in kickoffs out of bounds with four. "I know I was in the top five in percentage. I think I had a good season in field goals with a lot of my kicks coming at the end of the season," Folk said. "But it's hard to hear people say that. I think everyone can see that I had a good year in field goals, but the down part of the year was that I didn't kick off well. But that's something I plan to improve this year. I don't think I put my best foot forward on kickoffs at all. I'm sure I will put a better foot forward this year."

When asked to explain his struggles on kickoffs, Folk hesitated to give an excuse, but did say he had problems with directional kicking, something former special teams coach Bruce Read stressed to Folk just before the start of the season. "Here's the best way I can explain it . . . ask any golfer to aim way off to the right, but put it right down he middle. That's kind of what we did," Folk said. "It was a good idea if you can get it down. Some kickers can get it down. But it took me a little longer to do that. Last year, I was told (before the season) that we'd be kicking it down the middle a lot. So that's what I worked on all summer. Then (Read) came back and said he wanted to hide everything. It's not easy to do. Go tell Tiger to aim into the woods every time, but still manage to get it down the middle of the fairway. It's not easy."

With Folk being out, and new special teams coach Joe DeCamillis recovering from his neck injury that has limited his time, the kicker said he wasn't sure on the exact philosophy on kickoffs this year. However, despite just two years in the NFL, Folk knows that keeping two kickers on a 53-man roster is rare enough, but getting both active on the 45-player game-day roster will be even tougher. With that, Folk knows improving his kickoffs are a must or it could present a difficult situation for the coaching staff each week, especially if Buehler is playing on a few other special teams units. "There will be some situations some time when they might need another DB," Folk said. Are they going to take the backup kickoff guy or are they going to take the backup field goal guy? And if he plays some special teams . . . obviously it's going to be a tough decision for them. "But I really can't worry about it right now. All I can do is get healthy and start kicking again like I know I can. If I can do that, I think it will all work out."

link

 

[Mike Herman]

UFL

The Las Vegas team [nickname yet to be determined] was the only squad to take specialists in last night's draft: kicker Andrew Jacas (Fort Valley State) and punter Danny Baugher (Arizona)

link

 

[Mike Herman]

I have no doubt that today's kickers are better. That said, things for modern kickers are much easier:

1) Hashes moved in (1972)

2) More domed stadiums

3) More warm weather teams

4) Better surfaces

5) Better holders/snappers

6) More resources (time/money) available to devote to improving kicking percentages

7) Addition of kickoff specialists means teams can kick field goals with their more accurate kicker

Almost none of these apply to Ryan Longwell; Yepremian played in Miami, Longwell played outdoors in Green Bay. Yepremian had, on average, better surfaces and more warm weather games than Longwell. Longwell never played with a kickoff specialist. What resources do you devote to improving kicking percentages? A guy to catch the ball and throw it back to the kicker?

Special teams coaches, for example. I'm sure kickers spend significantly more time reviewing film of kicking, etc.I believe all players can only be compared to their peers; it's unfair to compare players from one era to players from another without seeing how far each player distanced himself from his peers.

There is some good discussion in this thread: Why are there so many accurate kickers in this era?

 

[zed2283]

Interesting and very informative article by Chase here. I'm definitely looking forward to parts 2 & 3. I know I'll be viewing the kicking game (and decisions made in that regard by Head Coaches) a little different this year.

Thanks, Ruffrody.To some extent I think the final results will be noncontroversial, as really, I don't know anyone who has ever ranked kickers. There's certainly nowhere near a consensus on who the top 5 kickers of all time are, even among hardcore football fans. I'm expecting a lot less pushback then on an article on the Greatest QBs Ever, for example . That said, because of the independent nature of the position, I think ranking kickers is also a lot easier (once you figure out the right way to rank them) than ranking QBs.

I think if you're trying to measure the "greatness" of the kicker, it's incorrect to take into consideration the rules on where the ball will be placed if the FG is missed. A 50-yard FG is a 50-yard FG, whether in 1988 or 2008; the position of the ball afterwards has no bearing on how the kicker performed.

But it has an impact on the value of the kicker to the team. And the kicker knows beforehand where the ball will be placed following a miss. All this formula really does is put a bigger premium on the longer kicks, something that should not be controversial.(And a 50-yard FG in 1988 is not the same as one in 2008. It's much more common to see successful 50-yarders today.)

A kick is a discrete event; the consequences are irrelevant to the performance of the kicker. Someone who kicked a FG back when they were worth 4 points isn't a better kicker just because his kick was worth more, and someone who misses a kick in the 7-yards-back era isn't a worse kicker just because the consequences of his miss are greater.And controlling for era also seems wrong for discrete events. If it's much more common to see successful 50-yarders today, it must be because today's kickers are better (if you've controlled for domes).

Not to pile on, Chase, but the 50-yarder thing is also a function of the head coach deciding to take the risk of attempting the kick. I don't think you can penalize a kicker for missing a more difficult kick because of the consequences of the miss.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Not to pile on, Chase, but the 50-yarder thing is also a function of the head coach deciding to take the risk of attempting the kick. I don't think you can penalize a kicker for missing a more difficult kick because of the consequences of the miss.

Kickers aren't penalized for taking 50-yarders. The expected value of a 30 yard FG is the same as the expected value of a 50 yard FG in my formula.

 

[CalBear]

Not to pile on, Chase, but the 50-yarder thing is also a function of the head coach deciding to take the risk of attempting the kick. I don't think you can penalize a kicker for missing a more difficult kick because of the consequences of the miss.

Kickers aren't penalized for taking 50-yarders. The expected value of a 30 yard FG is the same as the expected value of a 50 yard FG in my formula.

Except that kickers since 1994 are penalized more for misses. That's broken.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Not to pile on, Chase, but the 50-yarder thing is also a function of the head coach deciding to take the risk of attempting the kick. I don't think you can penalize a kicker for missing a more difficult kick because of the consequences of the miss.

Kickers aren't penalized for taking 50-yarders. The expected value of a 30 yard FG is the same as the expected value of a 50 yard FG in my formula.

Except that kickers since 1994 are penalized more for misses. That's broken.

But they're given more credit for makes.

 

[CalBear]

Not to pile on, Chase, but the 50-yarder thing is also a function of the head coach deciding to take the risk of attempting the kick. I don't think you can penalize a kicker for missing a more difficult kick because of the consequences of the miss.

Kickers aren't penalized for taking 50-yarders. The expected value of a 30 yard FG is the same as the expected value of a 50 yard FG in my formula.

Except that kickers since 1994 are penalized more for misses. That's broken.

But they're given more credit for makes.

That's also broken. A field goal is a field goal.

 

[zed2283]

Not to pile on, Chase, but the 50-yarder thing is also a function of the head coach deciding to take the risk of attempting the kick. I don't think you can penalize a kicker for missing a more difficult kick because of the consequences of the miss.

Kickers aren't penalized for taking 50-yarders. The expected value of a 30 yard FG is the same as the expected value of a 50 yard FG in my formula.

Ok, sorry. I must have misunderstood the quote from the article.

 

[Mike Herman]

PITTSBURGH

Jeff Reed interview

 

[Mike Herman]

Some essential tweets from last few days (for those that may have missed them):

1. RT @Adam_Schefter Prediction based on what I'm hearing: Phil Dawson will not kick for Cleveland this season. Wants new contract... standoff.

2. All-FG game - 11/14/65 - Don Chandler 6 (Packers) over Bruce Gossett 3 (Rams) http://tinyurl.com/nz4y3t

4. History of Kicking 1000 B.C. - Australian Aborigines have played Marngrook for a long time. The game involves trying to catch a kicked ball.

5. Washington Huskies: Alejandro Maldonado vs. Erik Folk (younger brother of Dallas Cowboys' Nick Folk) http://tinyurl.com/l83n4j

9. “Least likely normally to have a problem is the kicker.” - **** Vermeil

10. Nebraska Cornhuskers' Alex Henery is punting once again http://tinyurl.com/lw7ypo

11. 'Grandma'-like coach hosts summer kicking camp http://tinyurl.com/nf9t5t

13. "...But the nice thing about it was you really couldn't feel your feet anyway, so it didn't hurt too much.” - Adam Vinatieri

14. Long snapper Jason Kyle signs with New Orleans Saints http://bit.ly/xQCgI

15. The Snow Plow Game 12/12/82 - John Smith (Patriots) vs. Uwe von Shamann (Dolphins) http://tinyurl.com/m2rb5b and http://tinyurl.com/nhfaa3

17. RT @ProFootballTalk Jay Feely Has Presidential Aspirations http://tinyurl.com/n5maoq #NFL

19. Georgia Bulldogs' Kevin Butler is the only kicker in the College Football Hall of Fame http://tinyurl.com/nogswr

link

 

[Mike Herman]

SAN FRANCISCO

Joe Nedney interview

 

[Mike Herman]

A few more tweets to fill the void until training camp:

Martin, Bill & Santiago Gramatica partner with non-profit group to provide affordable housing in New Orleans http://tinyurl.com/ljehhp

Kicker Kip Smith commits to the University of Minnesota http://tinyurl.com/nb4ymk #NCAA

Pilot episode of Punter Down Under filmed yesterday http://tinyurl.com/nzqhn6

Luca Congi & Saskatchewan Roughriders top Justin Medlock & Toronto Argonauts http://tinyurl.com/ldyc7r box: http://tinyurl.com/mlryax #CFL

History of Kicking 1950 - Bob Waterfield made nine PATs (3-way tie for most in one game) for Los Angeles against Baltimore #NFL

RT @ProFootballTalk Cincinnati Bengals, Shayne Graham not close in contract discussions http://tinyurl.com/lw58vg #NFL

B.C. Lions' Tad Crawford took over kicking in last night's game after Paul McCallum injured his wrist http://tinyurl.com/mpcfrc

@MikeNugent4 voted to Ohio State All-Alumni Football Team http://tinyurl.com/m5ezz4

“In our day, our fields were so worn by the middle of November that I called it AstroDirt." - Jim O’Brien, Baltimore Colts 70-72, Detroit 73

Winnipeg Blue Bombers' Alexis Serna continues to get iced... by his own coach http://tinyurl.com/nmh2ju #CFL

Fairbanks Grizzlies kicker Carlos Ojeda sat out 2nd half of victory over Alaska Wild with pulled calf muscle http://tinyurl.com/mlvycq #IFL

Cincinnati Bengals' Shayne Graham starts healthy chain letter http://tinyurl.com/m5k558

"I'm sorry, but I always considered myself an athlete and these guys were, like, funny." - Don Cockroft http://tinyurl.com/lm8pyk

History of Kicking 2006 - Defensive players can no longer line up directly over the long snapper during field goal and extra point attempts

Joe Nedney discusses Steve McNair: http://bit.ly/3udoUI

"When you're talking about a 47-yd FG, on grass, to win the SB, you're not talking about something that's very easy to do." - Bill Parcells

Interview with Michael Palardy (committed to University of Tennessee) http://www.volunteertv.com/

All-FG game - 11/27/95 - John Carney 12 (Chargers) over Jeff Jaeger 6 (Raiders) http://tinyurl.com/ox23dn & http://tinyurl.com/knqpfk

"Of course, we still had to make preparations for the game. We had to get ourselves right, mentally." - Lou Groza http://tinyurl.com/m2bg4a

Colquitt family, led by patriarch Craig, is trying to become the “Manning family” of NFL punting http://tinyurl.com/mtk9ls

Louisiana Swashbucklers' kicker Tommy Herbert leads the SIFL with 93.3% PATs (70 of 75) and 48.4% FGs (15 of 31) http://www.southernifl.com

Carlos Martinez makes 3 FGs, 5 PATs, & 1 Uno as the Columbus Lions advance to the AIFA Conference Championship http://tinyurl.com/mby3cg

"Punter Down Under": Australian reality show searches for the next NFL Aussie punter http://tinyurl.com/mt96q5

October 25, 1998 - Jason Elam ties Tom Dempsey's record 63 yard FG; video: http://bit.ly/lUfYQ

SMU kicker Matt Szymanski discusses transfer from Texas A&M, going teeless, and Frank Gansz http://tinyurl.com/nb4yn3

November 8, 1970 - Tom Dempsey http://bit.ly/l6ShA

All-FG game - 11/20/88 - Jason Staurovsky 6 (Patriots) over Tony Franklin 3 (Dolphins) http://tinyurl.com/mabvad & http://tinyurl.com/kkz2hk

Tennessee Titans' Rob Bironas: video on how to kick field goals in the wind http://bit.ly/s8K1L

With Eddie Johnson doubtful, Justin Medlock likely to kick on Saturday rather than caddy for girlfriend Hannah Jun http://tinyurl.com/mmd2oe

History of Kicking 1863 - eleven London football clubs/schools met at the Freemason's Tavern and formed The Football Association

#MusicMonday "The Lonesome Kicker" by Adam Sandler, video: http://bit.ly/f1gE4 lyrics: http://tinyurl.com/lldukl

The Heidi Game 1968 - Jim Turner (NY Jets) vs. George Blanda (Oakland), video: http://tinyurl.com/ny2fqr boxscore: http://tinyurl.com/mw4lgv

Bloomington Extreme's Peter Chrisofilakos leads the IFL in PAT percentage at 90.7% (68 of 75)

Sioux Falls Storm's Parker Douglass leads the IFL in FG percentage at 55.6% (15 of 27)

All-FG game - 9/13/81 - Toni Fritsch 9 (Oilers) over Dave Jacobs 3 (Browns) http://tinyurl.com/qhpu3p and http://tinyurl.com/o8ls2b

History of Kicking 1999-2001 - Matt Stover made at least one FG in 38 straight games (most consecutive games) for Baltimore Ravens, #NFL

Former Tennessee Titan Al Del Greco discusses Steve McNair: http://tinyurl.com/kwbfc4

"He respected everyone from the trainer to the water boy to even a kicker. He was the ultimate team player." Matt Stover on Steve McNair

"He was the ultimate pro, the toughest guy I ever played with or against, and I've played with some of the best" Matt Stover on Steve McNair

Tennessee Titans' Rob Bironas commercializes http://bit.ly/henzC

All-FG game - 9/12/93 - Dean Biasucci 9 (Colts) over Doug Pelfrey 6 (Bengals) http://tinyurl.com/lv673q

History of Kicking 1972 - NFL moved hashmarks to 18'-6" apart (same width as goalposts) cutting down on severe angles for short FG attempts

A critical review of Paul Edinger's "Kickin' it in Costa Rica" kicking and surfing camp http://tinyurl.com/mkcgk4

All-FG game - 9/26/04 - @jayfeely 6 (Falcons) over Neil Rackers 3 (Cardinals) http://tinyurl.com/kjhwou

Interview with Jacksonville Jaguars' long snapper Joe Zelenka http://tinyurl.com/n3loat

UFL salary for punters, kickers and long snappers to be $25,000 for six-game schedule http://tinyurl.com/ls82zy

Cincinnati Bengals' rookie punter Kevin Huber will serve as the holder for kicker Shayne Graham

 

[Mike Herman]

"Gano-Hauschka battle about to heat up", Baltimore Ravens kicking competition http://tinyurl.com/mfsxl3 #NFL

Former NFL kicker Raúl Allegre will be part of celebration of Hispanic Heritage Month on Monday Night Football http://tinyurl.com/knaqoz

Seattle Seahawks' Brandon Coutu looks to jumpstart NFL career with help of Morten Andersen http://tinyurl.com/lumh5q26

"I was short, bald and didn't understand the game. But worse than that, I walked off the field cleaner than I walked on." - Garo Yepremian

 

[Mike Herman]

"I’d get lined up, and I’d think about too many things instead of just going out and kicking." - Matt Prater, Broncos http://bit.ly/10QIoG2 minutes ago from web

RT @Kornblue clip of Conan O'Brien learning how to kick FG's: http://bit.ly/SosNhabout 3 hours ago from web

And then there was one... Kansas City Chiefs' Ryan Succop http://kan.scout.com/2/8827... #NFLabout 3 hours ago from web

Kansas City Chiefs release Connor Barth http://bit.ly/NBhI3 #NFLabout 11 hours ago from web

"It's my job to put the ball through whether the ball's flat on the ground or perfect holds." - Graham Gano, Ravens http://bit.ly/t0M9Babout 17 hours ago from web

"It’s something I knew if I worked hard I’d be able to get to this level." - Tennessee Titans Rob Bironas http://bit.ly/GeC3u #NFL8:35 AM Jul 28th from web

Dallas Cowboys sign 5th round draft pick kicker and special teams player David Buehler http://bit.ly/1JH7c3 #NFL7:12 PM Jul 27th from web

New England Patriots kicker Stephen Gostkowski wins First Annual Good Sports Celebrity Home Run Derby http://bit.ly/SLLR23:18 PM Jul 27th from web

RT @Chris_Sailer http://twitpic.com/bu96p - Cowboys Kicker Nick Folk demonstrates field goals at the TX Nike Summer Camp!2:35 PM Jul 27th from web

"I'd give him every bottle of wine he wants. But it's a different time." - **** Vermeil2:31 PM Jul 27th from web

"When you make this kick, I have a bottle of Bryant Family Cabernet Sauvignon for you." Morten replied, "What vintage?" http://bit.ly/m7uJ52:26 PM Jul 27th from web

Carolina Panthers specialist quartet: John Kasay, Jason Baker, Rhys Lloyd, and either J.J. Jansen or Nick Sundberg http://bit.ly/lFZ8S #NFL12:02 PM Jul 27th from web

"The half-backs and backs have usually been men of speed coupled with skill as kickers." - Walter Camp (Father of American Football), 18916:19 AM Jul 27th from web

History of Kicking 1835 - the Highways Act allowed the banning of street football in urban areas of England4:49 PM Jul 26th from web

"When you get a second chance, you have to make the most of it." - Toronto Argonauts kicker Justin Medlock http://bit.ly/10g9ef #CFL12:12 PM Jul 26th from web

"The Art of Kicking", featuring Houston Texan's Kris Brown http://tinyurl.com/m5ym6d10:48 AM Jul 26th from web

RT @jameswilhoit Finishing up Coach Z Pro Development Camp. Nick Novak hit 8 of 9 field goals with a long of 61 yards! Very impressive...8:33 AM Jul 26th from web

"I never placed great emphasis on records, or any nonsense like that." - Gary Anderson7:04 PM Jul 25th from web

Buffalo Bills kicker Rian Lindell will perform unplugged during training camp with his Smashmouth guitar http://tinyurl.com/n6rfp5 #NFL8:47 AM Jul 25th from web

New York Giants kicker Lawrence Tynes answers a few (three) questions. One of the answers is Morten Andersen. http://tinyurl.com/ld9onb #NFL2:09 PM Jul 24th from web

"Jason Hanson's amazing talents have been 'wasted' with Lions" http://tinyurl.com/kw42bw12:50 PM Jul 24th from web

"Can Mare do it again?" http://tinyurl.com/laowvf article on Seattle Seahawks Olindo Mare and Brandon Coutu #NFL11:24 AM Jul 24th from web

 

[Mike Herman]

Recent Tweets

Kicker Rob Bironas expected to resume kicking today per HC Jeff Fisher. Punter Craig Hentrich kicked in place of Bironas on Saturday.13 minutes ago from web

Pittsburgh Steelers kicker Jeff Reed heading into final year of contract http://bit.ly/h4Bt #NFLabout 10 hours ago from web

"David Beuhler Out To Prove He's Not Just A Kickoff Guy" http://bit.ly/pZYrC #NFLabout 10 hours ago from web

“I’m not going to talk about it.” - Cleveland Browns kicker Phil Dawson http://cle.scout.com/2/8838... #NFLabout 14 hours ago from web

"We got a glimpse of David Buehler's booming leg" Dallas Cowboys kickoff specialist http://bit.ly/qEcoi #NFLabout 17 hours ago from web

In addition to hip surgery in June, Colts' Adam Vinatieri also had arthroscopic knee surgery during offseason http://bit.ly/2hAk2i #NFLabout 23 hours ago from web

"Long snapper Jason Kyle is center of attention for New Orleans Saints" http://bit.ly/3WrGRq #NFL6:55 AM Aug 1st from web

"It's getting there. It's a little sore, but that's to be expected." - Dallas Cowboys kicker Nick Folk http://bit.ly/okPbd #NFL6:52 AM Aug 1st from web

Indianapolis Colts will open training camp Sunday with kicker Adam Vinatieri (hip and knee) on PUP list http://bit.ly/E9HZM #NFL10:24 PM Jul 31st from web

Kansas City Chiefs head coach Todd Haley discusses kickers Connor Barth and Ryan Succop http://kan.scout.com/2/8835... #NFL10:11 PM Jul 31st from web

Tennessee Titans kicker Rob Bironas will miss a few days due to a pulled leg muscle http://bit.ly/J5I5I #NFL10:08 PM Jul 31st from web

Cleveland Browns waived kicker Parker Douglass http://bit.ly/2u7Ajo #NFL10:06 PM Jul 31st from web

Chicago Bears signed former Texas Longhorns punter Richmond McGee http://bit.ly/34HOMd #NFL4:27 PM Jul 31st from web

Not surprisingly, Baltimore ravens kickers Steve Hauschka and Graham Gano practice kicking in practice http://bit.ly/VsNlr #NFL3:13 PM Jul 31st from web

Dallas Cowboys training camp spectator counting rookie kickoff specialist David Buehler's every step http://bit.ly/1kIvUX #NFL8:23 AM Jul 31st from web

"I felt I was consistent with my field goals,... but I just need to work on my kickoffs." - Seahawks' Brandon Coutu http://bit.ly/hqOfi #NFL5:48 AM Jul 31st from web

New Orleans Saints sign fifth-round draft pick punter Thomas Morstead http://bit.ly/18TdfL #NFL10:24 PM Jul 30th from web

Green Bay Packers special teams review http://bit.ly/LL71t #NFL10:20 PM Jul 30th from web

"But we will not have two kickers this year. I'm going to go on record and say that." - Seattle Seahawks GM Tim Ruskell http://bit.ly/udPh78:18 PM Jul 30th from web

RT @MikeNugent4 Headed out for the conditioning test. Getting ready for the start of training camp.4:47 PM Jul 30th from web

RT @nickfolk6 Solid first practice of the day...3-3 can't complain gonna have to start kicking off soon4:46 PM Jul 30th from web

RT @jayfeely Make sure you find me at training camp. Will give something away each day. First Feely jersey I see I will give game worn shoe1:55 PM Jul 30th from web

Philadelphia Eagles punter Ken Parrish "doesn't want to kick chance away" http://bit.ly/12bNtp #NFL9:23 AM Jul 30th from web

RT #NFL training camps start @jayfeely on 7/27 (7/30 vets), @nickfolk6 on 7/29, @RobBironas on7/30, @MikeNugent4 on 7/31, @rhysjlloyd on 8/28:57 PM Jul 29th from web

RT @nickfolk6 Finished practice one...good start...hit the ball well and consistent....happy today went well #NFL8:53 PM Jul 29th from web

History of Kicking 1983 - Ali Haji-Sheikh made 35 FGs (most by a rookie in a season) for NY Giants #NFL8:51 PM Jul 29th from web

"When I was walking on the field and people began to stand, it took me by surprise." - Rolf Benirschke http://bit.ly/iWcFO8:14 PM Jul 29th from web

All-FG game - 11/9/86 - Rolf Benirschke (Chargers) 9 over Rich Karlis (Broncos) 3 http://bit.ly/19uXyV #NFL8:08 PM Jul 29th from web

"He told me, 'Just kick the ball.' That sounds simple, but there's truth to it." - Phil Dawson citing Lou Groza4:36 PM Jul 29th from web

Indianapolis Colts have agreed to contract terms with punter Pat McAfee, one of their two seventh-round draft picks http://bit.ly/25mcM #NFL3:12 PM Jul 29th from web

"I was shocked," Connor Barth said a few hours later. http://bit.ly/J7xbC #NFL2:44 PM Jul 29th from web

 

[Mike Herman]

Tweets since Friday

New York Jets sign kicker Parker Douglass http://bit.ly/6QhgS #NFL28 minutes ago from web

New York kicker Lawrence Tynes currently sidelined with a strained groin http://bit.ly/QU7mq #NFLabout 1 hour ago from web

RT @vitostellino Josh Scobee finally missed from 53 yards out after making from closer range. He's been nailing them in camp.about 6 hours ago from web

"So we brought competition in to kind of fuel that fire a little bit and see what we get." - Dolphins HC Tony Sparano http://bit.ly/y4l4C 6 hours ago from web

"Face of the NFL is gone: An ode to the single-bar" http://bit.ly/2sPXVj 13 hours ago from web

Green Bay Packers kicker Mason Crosby works out training camp problems, “Just a little alignment.” http://bit.ly/1qiEMo #NFLabout 15 hours ago from web

RT @NFLDAILYTIMES Chiefs counting on Ryan Succop to solve kicking woes (AP) http://u.mavrev.com/0114t #NFL7:44 PM Aug 11th from web

"Obviously, I'm sure Matt Bryant has some concern.... He kind of strained it a little bit, so he stepped out." HC Morris http://bit.ly/kaMA3 PM Aug 11th from web

"I was up at 4 am... in an airplane at 6... here to work out at 10:30 for all the doctor stuff... worked out at 2:30." http://bit.ly/ltJXl AM Aug 11th from web

"You're either the hero or the dud. You're either on the top or on the bottom. That's it." - Denver Broncos' Matt Prater http://bit.ly/yunuH AM Aug 11th from web

RT @Saints__News Garrett Hartley hit all eight of his field goal attempts in the Black and Gold Scrimmage on Saturday http://bit.ly/3MOpq5 PM Aug 10th from web

“It shows it could take a little while to find a place and stick, and that’s what I’m banking on.” - Connor Barth http://bit.ly/paPn6 #NFL9:39 PM Aug 10th from web

RT @OmarKelly Miami fans are certainly no stranger to new Dolphins kicker Connor Barth, the Hurricane slayer. http://bit.ly/1dpwYU PM Aug 10th from web

Miami Dolphins sign kicker Connor Barth http://bit.ly/1aewma #NFL5:53 PM Aug 10th from web

RT @sanktified At the Steelers training camp. Dan Sepulveda just threw a touchdown to Jeff Reed. Best play ever!4:52 PM Aug 10th from web

“Golf is really so similar to kicking, as far as rhythm and hip rotation and timing.” - Ryan Longwell http://bit.ly/kAC9w #NFL #PGA11:42 AM Aug 10th from web

“The thing that has been surprising is that [buehler] has been better in practice on field goals than we anticipated.” http://bit.ly/DVzxW AM Aug 10th from web

Buffalo Bills' Rian Lindell kicks FGs of 20, 47, and 52 yards in HOF Game http://bit.ly/rDsgm #NFL11:16 PM Aug 9th from web

"I’m sure I’m not at strong as I was at (age) 24. But basically, I have the leg power." -Philadelphia Eagles David Akers http://bit.ly/UGlLn PM Aug 9th from web

RT @Drhend3 Phil Dawson just kicked a 65 yard FG. in warm ups for the brown white scrimmage. That was cool. #NFL #Browns7:47 PM Aug 9th from web

"I was feeling a little good earlier and the crowd got me a little more juiced, so I took a shot at it." - David Akers http://bit.ly/3mSRzD PM Aug 8th from web

RT @CoachFeely Must read story about Jay Feely at Jets camp: http://bit.ly/1NV0eB PM Aug 8th from web

Long-range kicker, Kansas City Chiefs' Ryan Succop http://chiefsblog.kansascit.../907 #NFL7:39 PM Aug 8th from web

"... But he came through when it mattered." - HC John Harbaugh on Graham Gano #NFL #Ravens7:36 PM Aug 8th from web

"I think his legs were very noodley. He's been kicking a lot, and he didn't have a lot of leg out there today..." HC John Harbaugh on Gano7:35 PM Aug 8th from web

Washington Redskins' Dave Rayner goes 3 of 3 from 55+ yards on Fan Appreciation Day http://bit.ly/SL9g2 #NFL7:04 PM Aug 8th from web

Matt Bryant Attempting to Kick Through Adversity http://bit.ly/RROjw #NFL #Buccaneers5:07 PM Aug 8th from web

"You would think after the year that I had that it would be a, you know, little easier decision." Seahawks' Olindo Mare http://bit.ly/11qTXD PM Aug 8th from web

“If it weren’t for Adam [Vinatieri], kickers wouldn’t get the respect we do." - New England Patriots' Stephen Gostkowski http://bit.ly/YG2kA PM Aug 8th from web

"He's my go-to guy with any coaching point that needs to sink in a little deeper." - HC Eric Mangini on Phil Dawson http://bit.ly/N91O4 #NFL10:13 PM Aug 7th from web

"I don’t think he’s 100 percent yet, but his field-goal kicking is still long-range." HC Wade Phillips on Nick Folk http://bit.ly/NoggU #NFL12:28 PM Aug 7th from web

RT @fs3142 Josh McDaniels said he wouldn't consider bringing anyone in to compete against Matt Prater, who has been inconsistent during camp8:03 AM Aug 7th from web

"I feel like I'm kicking night-and-day better than last year." - Seattle Seahawks Brandon Coutu http://bit.ly/9JYMR #NFL5:21 AM Aug 7th from web

Detroit Lions released kicker Swayze Waters to free up a roster spot #NFL5:17 AM Aug 7th from web

 

[Mike Herman]

Some Daily Tweets

RT @OmarKelly Dan Carpenter is in serious trouble. He missed all three FG attempts Thursday while Connor Barth split the uprights in his two5 minutes ago from web

RT @OmarKelly K Connor Barth is still carrying the bag with the kicking balls. I wonder how long those special teamers haze newcomers?9 minutes ago from web

"As a kicker, I'm starting to feel small again." - Detroit Lions' Jason Hanson http://bit.ly/160C7K #NFL29 minutes ago from web

RT @TheBlueScreen K Lawrence Tynes is still out today, but expects to kick tomorrow. And Monday night, too. #nygabout 5 hours ago from web

Lawrence Tynes setting up 7 yards behind ball instead of his previous 10, hoping it adds more power to his kickoffs http://bit.ly/aYdtU #NFLabout 16 hours ago from web

HC Rex Ryan said the Jets signed K Parker Douglass because Jay Feely has a sore groin, but added that it's not serious http://bit.ly/8N8qP 16 hours ago from web

 

[Mike Herman]

Recent Tweets

New Orleans Saints reacquire kicker John Carney to plug potential loss of Garrett Hartley http://bit.ly/SP2VB #NFLabout 6 hours ago from web

“I realized it was going to take time, and I have to perform. I’ll just keep at it, I guess.” - kicker Parker Douglass http://bit.ly/15K8PE 6 hours ago from web

"I believe I will get a phone call, it's just whether or not it's going to fit with the family." - Matt Stover http://bit.ly/FFS14 #NFLabout 6 hours ago from web

RT @BillMichaels620 Mason Crosby had plenty of leg on 2 FG att's. One from 60 and the other from 55. One hit the upright and WLabout 15 hours ago from web

RT @NFLDAILYTIMES New Orleans Saints Sign Veteran Kicker John Carney: NEW ORLEANS (AP) http://u.mavrev.com/02r7f #NFLabout 15 hours ago from web

RT @NOLAsports New Orleans Saints kicker Garrett Hartley facing four-game suspension http://bit.ly/5jQwd 15 hours ago from web

Detroit Lions' kicker Jason Hanson hits 47 yard game winning FG as time expires http://bit.ly/dPFJR #NFLabout 15 hours ago from web

“They kind of erred on the side of caution. I wanted to kick two days ago.” - New York Giants kicker Lawrence Tynes http://bit.ly/C8nWH #NFLabout 22 hours ago from web

RT @kyledrogers Former Racer Shane Andrus kicks a 42 yard FG during the NFL preseason game for the Colts. Adam Vinitari is on the PUP list.10:41 AM Aug 15th from web

"I came in with the mind-set that I was going to do some work." - Indianapolis Colts' punter Pat McAfee http://bit.ly/ziAAM #NFL7:37 AM Aug 15th from web

RT @twouchdown #Rams - FG Josh Brown kicked 48, 34, & 39-yard field goals (STL 9, NYJ 10) #nfl8:54 PM Aug 14th from web

RT @twouchdown #Jets - FG Jay Feely kicked a 33-yard field goal (STL 3, NYJ 3) #nfl8:51 PM Aug 14th from web

RT @ManishMehta1 At Giants Stadium. Jay Feely just made a 45yd FG in warmups. His sore groin must not be so sore. #Jets #jetscamp #nfl8:51 PM Aug 14th from web

A 68 yd second half kickoff by Dave Rayner was the extent of Washington Redskins kicking last night. He and Shaun Suisham rested otherwise.1:48 PM Aug 14th from web

RT @Patriots__News Stephen Gostkowski made both of his FG attempts (37 and 49 yards) in Thursday's game http://bit.ly/3wwpXO #NFL #NE1:45 PM Aug 14th from web

New York Giants kicker Lawrence Tynes is using Carolina Panthers' Rhys Lloyd as a model http://bit.ly/U45Qv #NFL11:23 AM Aug 14th from web

Pittsburgh Steelers' kicker Piotr Czech missed a 36-yarder in third quarter but made a 44-yarder in fourth quarter http://bit.ly/rr6ee #NFL6:01 AM Aug 14th from web

Eagles' David Akers makes four FGs, has 44-yarder blocked at end of first half, and missed 43-yarder with a minute left http://bit.ly/6YkDB AM Aug 14th from web

"I think we all understand how important it is. It's all our mortgages." - Indianapolis Colts' Adam Vinatieri http://tinyurl.com/pb82yk #NFL5:53 AM Aug 14th from web

Steve Hauschka off on the Right Foot http://tinyurl.com/kl62vj #NFL #Ravens5:33 AM Aug 14th from web

RT @ABJ_Browns Dawson the Hero: Kicker Phil Dawson drew a huge cheer as practice ended, hitting a 50-yard FG http://bit.ly/hJlhw AM Aug 14th from web

"I stopped doing all of those service kickoffs. Take those out & it eliminates almost 500 reps in camp." -Lawrence Tynes http://bit.ly/XOWbO AM Aug 14th from web

 

[Mike Herman]

In the last 24 hours...

All FG Game - 12/5/93 - Dean Biasucci (Colts) 9 over Cary Blanchard (Jets) 6 http://tinyurl.com/pozef3 #NFL28 minutes ago from web

RT @NFLPlayersUnion Saints' John Carney still kicking after 21 years http://bit.ly/P25Bp #NFL #Beatles #Reaganabout 6 hours ago from web

New punter Hunter Smith is busy already; Washington Redskins http://bit.ly/pMANL #NFLabout 7 hours ago from web

More on Carney, Hartley, & Pipp http://bit.ly/JkaEv #NFL #Saintsabout 13 hours ago from web

"Morten Andersen set the bar high.... There are a number of us in Kasay, Elam, Hanson that are trying to reach that bar." - John Carney #NFLabout 16 hours ago from web

NY Jets sign punter Ken Parrish http://bit.ly/wBkQe #NFLabout 18 hours ago from web

John Carney Talks About His Time Warp http://bit.ly/9C9fl #NFL #Saintsabout 19 hours ago from web

Garrett Hartley remorseful over four-game suspension http://bit.ly/i7Xa8 #NFL #Saintsabout 19 hours ago from web

RT @kickingsystem heard Nate Kaeding missed a 33 yard field goal and a fan hit a 35 yard FG for a contest at halftimeabout 19 hours ago from web

New Orleans Saints Head Coach Sean Payton press conference, including lots of questions regarding Hartley and Carney http://bit.ly/j9WbZ 19 hours ago from web

Interview with New York Giants kicker Lawrence Tynes http://bit.ly/3hB0UI #NFLabout 19 hours ago from web

New Orleans Saints kicker Garrett Hartley explained that he took banned stimulant Adderall to stay awake http://bit.ly/10SRr0 #NFLabout 23 hours ago from web

 

[Mike Herman]

Kickology Tweets...

RT @TribTotalMedia Rookies enliven camp with annual show: Steelers kicker Jeff Reed took a hit... http://bit.ly/2dgUI1 minutes ago from web

RT @detroitlions Lions place linebacker Cody Spencer on injured reserve, sign K Swayze Waters http://bit.ly/11QRqP minutes ago from web

RT @Newslions Lions kicker Hanson undergoes surgery: Allen Park -- Lions kicker Jason Hanson had "minor" knee surgerY. http://bit.ly/lcsgh minutes ago from web

2009 Fred Mitchell Award Watch List released: http://bit.ly/4e8vmW #NCAA27 minutes ago from web

Dallas Cowboys' David Buehler almost assured of roster spot http://bit.ly/2zKFSB #NFLabout 8 hours ago from web

Seattle Seahawks kicker Olindo Mare misses game and practice due to sore knee http://bit.ly/13Gfmt #NFLabout 8 hours ago from web

Kansas City Chiefs GM Scott Pioli discusses Ryan Succop http://bit.ly/mkFk4 #NFLabout 15 hours ago from web

RT @titansbuzztap The Tennessean >> 5 questions: Rob Bironas http://bit.ly/fIKCZ 16 hours ago from web

RT @tnsports Titans kicker Rob Bironas tries some extra long field goals. http://tinyurl.com/p8qc3p 16 hours ago from web

Bucs will evaluate Matt Bryant's hamstring injury Thursday; haven't ruled out him kicking Saturday at Jacksonville http://tinyurl.com/r23qqf 17 hours ago from web

"We're both competing for any number of jobs out there because I think we're both talented enough to be NFL kickers..." http://bit.ly/z0OKd 21 hours ago from web

RT @wnst Steve Hauschka 2/5 today while Graham Gano 5/5.....Gano even knocked home a 58 yarder (although it did need help of left upright)about 24 hours ago from web

RT @saintsnews SaintsNews.net, New Orleans Saints kickers Garrett Hartley and John Carney speak after practice http://saintsnews.net/YvN PM Aug 17th from web

 

[zed2283]

Not trying to complain, but what information am I supposed to get from these tweets again? Are the links supposed to go somewhere?

 

[Mike Herman]

Not trying to complain, but what information am I supposed to get from these tweets again? Are the links supposed to go somewhere?

Hmmm. A bunch of the links got messed up when I copied them. They should be working now. P.S. Sorry about all those pufferfish things.