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****The 2019 Carolina Panthers Thread**** We Rhule At Losing (3 Viewers)

pantherclub said:
i truly dont get the greir pick as a 3rd for a backup qb and the linebacker pick seemed like a huge reach.  i kindof get the rb pick but its not a need. still need a wr, safety and dlinemen
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At least they drafted a couple of OTs.  They signed the safety out of Utah as UDFA.  Need a safety.

 
Slapdash said:
I don't understand why people do not see QB as a need.  Cam's injury ruined last season
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Thats easy.  Many reasons.

This teams window is closing and this team while it has fantastic pieces it still has big holes.  A back up qb is not going to move the needle at all even if cam gets hurt because 9 times out of 10 when a starter goes down thats ballgame.  No sense in trying to massage around it.  Your season is over more times than not if your main guy goes down.  Thats just life in the NFL.  Ask yourself this, would Will have made a difference last season the last few games assuming Cam went to the IR? 

Speaking of Will many are down on him due to system, lack of arm strength etc.  It just didnt make sense to pick him when we have glaring holes otherwise.  If Cams shoulder is truly shot, and I dont believe it is then its going to be a total rebuild anyway.  You cannot just piece mail this type of stuff.    There was an insane amount of talent still on the board when we picked him and I feel that is going to come back and haunt us when Grier seldom sees the field for the next few seasons. 

Hurney has consistently shown that past the first round he struggles and hopefully Tepper sees this and cuts the cord.  Hurney admitted today that he is not an analytics guy and that should be reason enough. 

But going back to the picks I guess you can argue the trade up was okay for the tackle but past that its just WTF are you doing?  

 
pantherclub said:
Thats easy.  Many reasons.

This teams window is closing and this team while it has fantastic pieces it still has big holes.  A back up qb is not going to move the needle at all even if cam gets hurt because 9 times out of 10 when a starter goes down thats ballgame.  No sense in trying to massage around it.  Your season is over more times than not if your main guy goes down.  Thats just life in the NFL.  Ask yourself this, would Will have made a difference last season the last few games assuming Cam went to the IR? 
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I think if Carolina had a backup they had confidence in, they would have turned to him instead of using an obviously injured Cam for 6 weeks.

 
Slapdash said:
I think if Carolina had a backup they had confidence in, they would have turned to him instead of using an obviously injured Cam for 6 weeks.
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and they still wouldnt have made the playoffs, on the whole back up qbs are not the answer in the NFL.  If the main guy goes out its curtains.  You simply cannot argue that

 
pantherclub said:
and they still wouldnt have made the playoffs, on the whole back up qbs are not the answer in the NFL.  If the main guy goes out its curtains.  You simply cannot argue that
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The Dolphins went to a Super Bowl with their backup after Griese broke his leg. It does happen. 

 
If you may as well cash it in if you have to turn to your backup QB then why have one? That's a ludicrous position to take. Now is this guy the guy? I don't know. But I do know what we did last year obviously didn't work. I also know when Cams next contract comes up, in 2 years, he's going to want Wilson money. Wouldn't it be nice to have someone you've been grooming able to step in if you don't want to pay 35 million a year plus? They don't want to say that but you know darn well that's part of it. And hey maybe he's here a couple of years plays in a few games looks good and gives you some nice trade bait. There is more than one layer to this. 

 
NCCommish said:
If you may as well cash it in if you have to turn to your backup QB then why have one? That's a ludicrous position to take. Now is this guy the guy? I don't know. But I do know what we did last year obviously didn't work. I also know when Cams next contract comes up, in 2 years, he's going to want Wilson money. Wouldn't it be nice to have someone you've been grooming able to step in if you don't want to pay 35 million a year plus? They don't want to say that but you know darn well that's part of it. And hey maybe he's here a couple of years plays in a few games looks good and gives you some nice trade bait. There is more than one layer to this. 
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All I am saying is it was dumb to me to waste a 3rd on a back up position that by all accounts needs some work.  There were tons of players on the board that could help today.  Grier isnt one of them.  Now if your argument is Cams shoulder is shot then so be it we are now in the Tua or Lawrence sweepstakes because without Cam and our defense aging out we are not a good team.   And to my overall point,  sure you can cherry pick Bob Greise from 40 years ago but on the vast majority when your starter goes out thats ball game.  Just the way the game is today.  Just look at the last 2 seasons when qb's get injured. 

I think with Cam its going to be ride or die.

In closing I still think Hurney sucks and hopefully Tepper has had enough.   To illustrate how dumb Hurney is just look at the analytics comments he said after the draft and keep in mind that Tepper came in and was disappointed in the lack of analytics within the organization.  Why in the hell would you openly admit you are not an analytics guy if that was the case.   Hurney just needs to go.

 
Hurney may not be an analytics guy be pro football focus had has draft scored as excellent and he snagged all the highly rated analytical guys

 
Man, I thought Carolina had an "A" draft. Burns could be a stud, Little has long term starter written all over him, and Grier could easily be the heir apparent, and is a better player than the guy who went #6 overall in my opinion.

I'm not sure I saw a single bad pick.

 
travdogg said:
Man, I thought Carolina had an "A" draft. Burns could be a stud, Little has long term starter written all over him, and Grier could easily be the heir apparent, and is a better player than the guy who went #6 overall in my opinion.

I'm not sure I saw a single bad pick.
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You can argue Grier, Miller and Scarlett are kindof head scratchers and the last 2 probably will not make the team.

Giving up a 3rd for Robinson remains to be seen if it was a good move or not.  A lot of people were really down on him past the combine and into his interviews.  We shall see. 

I fully admit I am jaded however as a Hurney hater.

 
Jayrok said:
Not sure about Higdon but I don't get the Scarlett pick. Trayveon Williams was there. 

I like the Christian Miller pick but don't understand Godwin. 

Seven picks and zero defensive backs taken.  One of the worst in the league in pass defense last year.  

I guess they're going to hit free agency for DB help.  

Anxious to see what UDFA they sign for camp.
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Scarlett is soft and indecisive.  To the below, I'd have picked Holyfield over Scarlett...puzzling that he fell to UDFA status.  He isn't the fastest, but man he runs with authority.  Complete opposite of Scarlett.  

Jayrok said:
Elijah Holyfield signs as UDFA.  

Like that one.
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NCCommish said:
If you may as well cash it in if you have to turn to your backup QB then why have one? That's a ludicrous position to take. Now is this guy the guy? I don't know. But I do know what we did last year obviously didn't work. I also know when Cams next contract comes up, in 2 years, he's going to want Wilson money. Wouldn't it be nice to have someone you've been grooming able to step in if you don't want to pay 35 million a year plus? They don't want to say that but you know darn well that's part of it. And hey maybe he's here a couple of years plays in a few games looks good and gives you some nice trade bait. There is more than one layer to this. 
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https://www.catscratchreader.com/2019/4/30/18523279/nfl-carolina-panthers-shouldnt-have-taken-backup-quarterback-will-grier-pick-no-100

This is a spot on article and articulates what I was trying to say.   Dude we could have had Butler, Love or Johnson.  All three huge needs and all 3 are talented.

 
I have stopped studying college players for the draft's later rounds but when I watch Scarlett on youtube he looks really good to me.

Anyhow, I worried about Burns' size but if we are going 3-4 maybe I shouldn't.

All left tackles at the college level scare me for the pro game, but I don't mind paying to move up. If they are right on him we'll forget all about what it cost. 

Grier, I tend to agree with the critics of the player but do agree at some point you need to bite the bullet and invest in the future of the position. The people running the offensive side of the ball wanted him and I'd be dumb to think I know better. I'll give that one some time.

Love the Miller pick.

Afraid we still need more up front on the D.

 
I like the Miller pick too.  I'm okay with Grier as a backup/potential future guy and I hope he turns out terrific.  I worry about Little after moving up to get him.  I think we could have gotten Grier and either Johnson or Love at CB (with both 3d round picks) and would have been able to get Ford with our normal second.  

Also wish we had brought in Albert Huggins as UDFA for the defensive line.  He was the lesser known guy on the Clemson DL.  Rotated all year and stepped in when Dexter Lawrence had to sit out of both playoff games.  

 
pantherclub said:
https://www.catscratchreader.com/2019/4/30/18523279/nfl-carolina-panthers-shouldnt-have-taken-backup-quarterback-will-grier-pick-no-100

This is a spot on article and articulates what I was trying to say.   Dude we could have had Butler, Love or Johnson.  All three huge needs and all 3 are talented.
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And all were barely graded better. All 3 could just as easily be nothing. And backup qb is a position of need as I would think would've been made exceptionally obvious less then 12 months ago.

 
I guess point is taken.  I don't get to see as many of their games as I used to, but my perception was that he was decent enough that it'd be worth the low cost to sign for one more year vs trying to find someone in FA.

 
On another subject...Tepper seems to be really engaged in the community :thumbup:

That's always a concern with a new owner regardless of what they say prior to being the owner.

 
The Commish said:
On another subject...Tepper seems to be really engaged in the community :thumbup:

That's always a concern with a new owner regardless of what they say prior to being the owner.
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Yeah he does seem to be living up to his promises. I also like getting Smitty into the Hall of Honor and seriously mending that relationship. 

 
The Commish said:
I guess point is taken.  I don't get to see as many of their games as I used to, but my perception was that he was decent enough that it'd be worth the low cost to sign for one more year vs trying to find someone in FA.
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I think you could get a bunch of better guys around the league minimum. To be fair injuries have somewhat hampered his development but even with that he never really delivered on his alleged potential. This goes back to my knock on draft grades he was graded a starter. He simply hasn't proven to be that. All the issues he had in college are still present today. 

 
McCoy signs a one year deal worth around 10mil

Hurney seems to be all in on the "win now" mindset .  I cannot really fault him for that as our defense looks to be built for one last hoorah. 

Cam is throwing again so hopefully this is a special year.

 
I hope McCoy adds a special ingredient that boosts the defense.  Hopefully he can still get to the QB.

Good news that Cam is throwing.  

 
Jayrok said:
I hope McCoy adds a special ingredient that boosts the defense.  Hopefully he can still get to the QB.

Good news that Cam is throwing.  
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I think the signing is more about depth on the dline then thinking he is a special player.  He was a menace a few years ago.

I loved the quotes from him about the team chemistry.  Sure I am a homer but I think if Cam is healthy this is a 12 win team.

 
pantherclub said:
I think the signing is more about depth on the dline then thinking he is a special player.  He was a menace a few years ago.

I loved the quotes from him about the team chemistry.  Sure I am a homer but I think if Cam is healthy this is a 12 win team.
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He's been pretty good even last season. Now he has a better supporting cast, a one year prove it deal and a chip on his shoulder. I think he could definitely have an excellent year here.

And I agree that this could be a 12 win team. So much is riding on that shoulder though. 

 
pantherclub said:
So it comes out now that Grier had a bad spring and is now the 3rd qb.   So much for the theory he is going to start this year.  
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That was never a good theory really. And a bad spring doesn't really mean much either. It's my understanding he showed some flashes let's wait to see what happens in training camp before we finalize the position chart.

 
NCCommish said:
That was never a good theory really. And a bad spring doesn't really mean much either. It's my understanding he showed some flashes let's wait to see what happens in training camp before we finalize the position chart.
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But I still contend blowing a third on him was just pretty dumb even moreso no if he is not even the back up

 
Slapdash said:
Link to me saying that?
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Not to speak for him but he may have been referring to various folks saying Cam wouldn't be ready and they drafted him to start for him. Not you in particular. 

On the other hand the Panthers said they were looking at him for his potential and to develop him. 

 
NCCommish said:
Not to speak for him but he may have been referring to various folks saying Cam wouldn't be ready and they drafted him to start for him. Not you in particular. 

On the other hand the Panthers said they were looking at him for his potential and to develop him. 
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Yeah I wasnt specifically implying you slap just the general consensus that cam wasnt ready and WG would be the starter.  I argued that if cam is done (and it looks like he isnt) then we wasted a 3rd on him especially if he is 3rd string.  I dont recall the panthers stating they wanted to develop him just that they were not comfortable with the back ups (who I thought both had their moments).  I think this particular team is solid and that 3rd could have given us more depth somewhere other than qb.  I still stand by my rationale that if Cam is hurt/gets hurt then we are in for a long year regardless of who the back up is. 

 
pantherclub said:
Yeah I wasnt specifically implying you slap just the general consensus that cam wasnt ready and WG would be the starter.  I argued that if cam is done (and it looks like he isnt) then we wasted a 3rd on him especially if he is 3rd string.  I dont recall the panthers stating they wanted to develop him just that they were not comfortable with the back ups (who I thought both had their moments).  I think this particular team is solid and that 3rd could have given us more depth somewhere other than qb.  I still stand by my rationale that if Cam is hurt/gets hurt then we are in for a long year regardless of who the back up is. 
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Yeah both Rivera and Hurney talked about developing him. While those guys weren't horrible I feel like he has a much higher ceiling than they do. And I still say this was a pick that is about Cam's next contract more than an immediate player. This guy can sit,  learn the system. If he is solid, a good locker room guy and plays well in the system then maybe you don't have to beat Wilson's contract when the time comes. 

 
Tre Boston is back with the cats on a 1 year 3 million dollar contract. He has improved over the last few years (with the Chargers and Cardinals). He should be able to help at the Safety position.

 
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simey said:
Tre Boston is back with the cats on a 1 year 3 million dollar contract. He has improved over the last few years (with the Chargers and Cardinals). He should be able to help at the Safety position.
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i am guessing the kid from Tennessee isnt panning out

 
pantherclub said:
i am guessing the kid from Tennessee isnt panning out
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Does that mean you are unhappy or happy with the Tre signing?  I am glad they have brought him back. Gaulden (the kid from Tennessee) plays best at the nickel position. I read they want to move him there.

 
simey said:
Does that mean you are unhappy or happy with the Tre signing?  I am glad they have brought him back. Gaulden (the kid from Tennessee) plays best at the nickel position. I read they want to move him there.
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not unhappy. depth is good.  unhappy hurney drafted him in the 3rd

 
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