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The Americans (1 Viewer)

phandango said:
Philip has been an accomplice to everything. While he seemingly has shown more regret than Elizabeth, they're both monsters. Even this season, when he has been more reluctant to carry out his assignments (like shooting the old Russian woman who collaborated with the Nazis), he still broke the spine of that guy breeding the bugs in Kansas after Elizabeth shoved him into Philip's grasp. In fact, his growing remorse seems to stem precisely from all the horrible things he's done. 

This show has still entertained me this season. I feel like they're going somewhere, and even if the pace has slowed down, I'm fine with it.
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I suppose you could argue that he wouldn't be out breaking dude's spines for the hell of it, if not for his job, but Elizabeth might well be. 

 
Psychopav said:
Righetti said:
I saw it as Philip making it official so that he can have the moral reason to demand that Elizabeth stops having to sleep around.  Or at least hold it over her head 
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Really?  That's surprising.

What else have you seen Phillip do that makes you think this was some sort of power play?  I think that would be out of character for him. 
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I haven't seen last nights episode and see that this wasn't bumped, so I will stick with commentary of last week's for now

I think that the toll this has taken on Philip (who is still every bit the monster) has forced him to push to get out.  I saw this as a direct response to the fact that they had to go back to Topeka   Or in the long term to get out of this life  

The other thought I had was that maybe officially marrying Elizabeth was his long term play when they move back to Russia as he hopes that when the facade drops they can still stay together.   Because you'd have to think that when the mission ends, they thought could be that they both just go back to their original towns.   You saw this play out in the car 

 
Last night's episode was feeling like a series finale. They very well could have just wrapped the whole thing up then bam!

 
What does everyone think about Elizabeth's motivation to stay in the U.S.? Can she not imagine doing anything other than what they've been doing as spies, or did she realize that she really does like the benefits they have while living in the U.S., or some of both?

Does she get a new partner to continue their work if Philip really does stop most of his spy activity?

 
phandango said:
They are Russian spies in America. The beauty of the show is that they are the protagonists and we root for them, even though we should be rooting for guys like Stan. Still, I can't imagine there's a good ending for them at the end of the series. I think they somehow get wind of how crappy it really is in Russia while the Soviet Union falls apart and decide not to go back, and the result is they end up dead. Because, let's be honest, even though they're the "heroes," Philip and Elizabeth have done some horrible things, on behalf of a country that was our enemy. I don't think there's any "happily ever after" ending for them.
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The show, from the beginning, gives us fictional stories bounced off of factual, historical events. To that, I think Phillip and Elizabeth are going to be exposed, found out and killed; destroying their world and that of their children.......but there won't be some grand, public expose; it'll be nothing more than a page  8 story in the D.C. papers...... "Washington D.C. Area Man and Woman Die In Single Car Crash".

 
roarlions said:
What does everyone think about Elizabeth's motivation to stay in the U.S.? Can she not imagine doing anything other than what they've been doing as spies, or did she realize that she really does like the benefits they have while living in the U.S., or some of both?

Does she get a new partner to continue their work if Philip really does stop most of his spy activity?
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Spoilers from last night coming

Culmination of 3 major things that we saw last night IMO

1.  I think in the "Good Bye Yellow Brick Road Scene" - they were pretty overt in wanting us to see that Phil and Elizabeth realize that there are a lot of things about the American Life that they just won't have back in Russia.  

2.  Throw in that the Pascha scenario could easily be Paige or Henry if they go back to Russia and you can see where Phil and Elizabeth are coming from.

3.  Then you add that Breland is getting promoted to the Russian Director, which would presumably be the biggest get for them yet

 
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roarlions said:
What does everyone think about Elizabeth's motivation to stay in the U.S.? Can she not imagine doing anything other than what they've been doing as spies, or did she realize that she really does like the benefits they have while living in the U.S., or some of both?

Does she get a new partner to continue their work if Philip really does stop most of his spy activity?
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Tuan maybe? Could this turn into a story where Philip ultimately finds redemption and Elizabeth does not? I think it unlikely, more likely they find redemption together and end up defecting. 

 
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Tiger Fan said:
Spoilers from last night coming

I think in the "Good Bye Yellow Brick Road Scene" - they were pretty overt in wanting us to see that Phil and Elizabeth realize that there are a lot of things about the American Life that they just won't have back in Russia.

Then you add that Breland is getting promoted to the Russian Director, which would presumably be the biggest get for them yet, that was her motivation in staying.
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Tittle of the episode was "The Soviet Division" which while it points openly to Breland it also could not so openly point to the division coming between Philip and Elizabeth. He's ready to leave and now she again wants to stay. He has nothing to stay for. He doesn't want to do the things he's being asked to do any longer. Stan is moving on with a new woman. The kids are nearly grown up and have missed out on being a real family doing family things. All he has is family and it's not like he/they can just stay there and not do the job.

 
3C's said:
Tittle of the episode was "The Soviet Division" which while it points openly to Breland it also could not so openly point to the division coming between Philip and Elizabeth. He's ready to leave and now she again wants to stay. He has nothing to stay for. He doesn't want to do the things he's being asked to do any longer. Stan is moving on with a new woman. The kids are nearly grown up and have missed out on being a real family doing family things. All he has is family and it's not like he/they can just stay there and not do the job.
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I guess I took it as he doesn't think that they have a better chance of being a "real family" in the US vs. Russia.

 
Tiger Fan said:
I guess I took it as he doesn't think that they have a better chance of being a "real family" in the US vs. Russia.
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Definitely as long as they stay in the US and continue doing their work they have no chance at being a real family, at least in his thinking. In the Soviet Union they could do a regular 9 to 5, though I'd think with what they've done for their country they'd be taken care of for life, and be closer to a normal life, even if the SU is in disarray. Obviously they don't know how bad it is (or how bad it will get like we do) there though. Alexei gave him some things to chew on for sure.

 
3C's said:
Definitely as long as they stay in the US and continue doing their work they have no chance at being a real family, at least in his thinking. In the Soviet Union they could do a regular 9 to 5, though I'd think with what they've done for their country they'd be taken care of for life, and be closer to a normal life, even if the SU is in disarray. Obviously they don't know how bad it is (or how bad it will get like we do) there though. Alexei gave him some things to chew on for sure.
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yep

I need to rewatch that last scene with Phillip and Elizabeth again, can't remember exactly what he said when she suggested to just run the agency.

 
Tiger Fan said:
yep

I need to rewatch that last scene with Phillip and Elizabeth again, can't remember exactly what he said when she suggested to just run the agency.
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I think that is when he said that she needed him, not sure if he specifically said to do the job. She said she didn't want to see him feeling the way he does now, that she could do it without him, and basically that she felt guilty for saying that they needed to stay when he wanted to go. But given the speech she made to Tuan about needing a partner, I wonder is she really believes she could do it on her own? Maybe she does because Philip would still be there and she could talk to him, get advice from him, etc., but not having him active could definitely drive a big wedge between them. And if she ended up with some new male partner Philip's insecurity would kick into hyper-drive.

 
Tiger Fan said:
yep

I need to rewatch that last scene with Phillip and Elizabeth again, can't remember exactly what he said when she suggested to just run the agency.
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And tie that (her suggestion) in with her lecture to Tuan about needing a partner.

 
Someone mentioned Stan's new woman, I'm more convinced after last night's episode that she really is a Soviet plant. If she was, she'd probably want him to stay in his current job rather than moving to some division which would be less valuable in terms of intelligence for the Soviets.

 
roarlions said:
Someone mentioned Stan's new woman, I'm more convinced after last night's episode that she really is a Soviet plant. If she was, she'd probably want him to stay in his current job rather than moving to some division which would be less valuable in terms of intelligence for the Soviets.
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It would seem that way but the handlers said she wasn't. And they wouldn't lie would they?! :D

Probably the showrunners/writers messing with our heads.

 
3C's said:
It would seem that way but the handlers said she wasn't. And they wouldn't lie would they?! :D

Probably the showrunners/writers messing with our heads.
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Did they say she wasn't? Philip asked Gabriel, and Gabriel said if Stan's girlfriend was a spy, then no one told Gabriel about it. I felt like they left it open. I think the point is that Philip wants to believe the girlfriend is a spy, because it would alleviate Philip's burden of having to keep tabs on Stan. He could easily rationalize that the Centre didn't tell Gabriel because he was due to go back to Russia anyway.

I felt like Philip's and Elizabeth's roles were reversed in the finale. Normally, he's the emotional one and she's more pragmatic. Last night, she was the one getting wistful looking around the house and the life she has in America, while he was getting things ready to go, like telling Henry he couldn't go to the school and the speech to Paige about her having a more normal life (which I guess he feels she would have in Russia), not to mention telling Kimmy he was moving. (The Kimmy/tapes plot was almost non-existent during the season, except to move the plot in certain directions, particularly last night. It felt pretty forced.)

They really hit us over the head with Elizabeth's speech telling Tuan he can't do it alone, and then her telling Philip she'll do it alone. I don't think she pairs up with Tuan. That would be pretty weird.

 
phandango said:
Did they say she wasn't? Philip asked Gabriel, and Gabriel said if Stan's girlfriend was a spy, then no one told Gabriel about it. I felt like they left it open. I think the point is that Philip wants to believe the girlfriend is a spy, because it would alleviate Philip's burden of having to keep tabs on Stan. He could easily rationalize that the Centre didn't tell Gabriel because he was due to go back to Russia anyway.

I felt like Philip's and Elizabeth's roles were reversed in the finale. Normally, he's the emotional one and she's more pragmatic. Last night, she was the one getting wistful looking around the house and the life she has in America, while he was getting things ready to go, like telling Henry he couldn't go to the school and the speech to Paige about her having a more normal life (which I guess he feels she would have in Russia), not to mention telling Kimmy he was moving. (The Kimmy/tapes plot was almost non-existent during the season, except to move the plot in certain directions, particularly last night. It felt pretty forced.)

They really hit us over the head with Elizabeth's speech telling Tuan he can't do it alone, and then her telling Philip she'll do it alone. I don't think she pairs up with Tuan. That would be pretty weird.
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Here's a transcript from the episode:

Is Stan Beeman's new girlfriend one of us? Are you serious? (sighs) You're losing it, Philip. That's not an answer, Gabriel. No. It's possible the Centre wouldn't tell me because they knew you'd ask me this question. As far as I know, she is not one of us.

So that isn't a definite "no" but as far the handlers (Gabriel) know she isn't with them.

 
phandango said:
They really hit us over the head with Elizabeth's speech telling Tuan he can't do it alone, and then her telling Philip she'll do it alone. I don't think she pairs up with Tuan. That would be pretty weird.
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Yeah, I think she's going to try to go it alone and it ends up costing her.

 
roarlions said:
Someone mentioned Stan's new woman, I'm more convinced after last night's episode that she really is a Soviet plant. If she was, she'd probably want him to stay in his current job rather than moving to some division which would be less valuable in terms of intelligence for the Soviets.
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I'm thinking she might even be from another government agency altogether.

If you revisit the episode, watch Stan when she suggests he stay with his current unit.  He does a subtle mini-doubletake, like his FBI "spidey-sense" going off.  It made me think about his discussion with Henry, where he said that because of the job he couldn't trust anyone.

 
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Statorama said:
I'm thinking she might even be from another government agency altogether.

If you revisit the episode, watch Stan when she suggests he stay with his current unit.  He does a subtle mini-doubletake, like his FBI "spidey-sense" going off.  It made me think about his discussion with Henry, where he said that because of the job he couldn't trust anyone.
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I'm wondering this, too. Stan has pissed off the CIA with the Oleg thing and I wonder if they are bird-dogging him now.

 
Uruk-Hai said:
I'm wondering this, too. Stan has pissed off the CIA with the Oleg thing and I wonder if they are bird-dogging him now.
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That seems to be a prevailing thought of some. "She's CIA and they're checking if he's been turned." Of course, as recent incidents have pointed out, CIA is intelligence gathering, FBI is investigation, and CIA only works matters of foreign interest. I guess if the thought is he's been turned by the Soviets then it is a foreign interest and she's just gathering intelligence. :shrug:

 
3C's said:
That seems to be a prevailing thought of some. "She's CIA and they're checking if he's been turned." Of course, as recent incidents have pointed out, CIA is intelligence gathering, FBI is investigation, and CIA only works matters of foreign interest. I guess if the thought is he's been turned by the Soviets then it is a foreign interest and she's just gathering intelligence. :shrug:
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I think you're being tongue-in-cheek with the bolded, but it works for the story either way as Stan could be painted as working for an enemy government in the right light.

 
Uruk-Hai said:
I'm wondering this, too. Stan has pissed off the CIA with the Oleg thing and I wonder if they are bird-dogging him now.
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Plus, Oleg is under investigation for helping America (via Stan). It would make sense that perhaps US intelligence (via the girlfriend) is looking into whether there was anything more to Stan's relationship with Oleg.

What if the CIA is somehow onto Philip and Elizabeth and the girlfriend is working Stan's proximity and friendship to Philip to gather intel? We've seen Philip and Elizabeth do essentially the same thing the entire series. Hard to believe, though, that an FBI counter-intelligence officer and two Russian spies wouldn't sniff it out.

 
I really thought Satan's girlfriend was going to try to kill him in that scene. 

Not sure what will happen next season, but I doubt they go back.

 
Just watched the episode with the Russian woman who executed her own for the Nazis. Now THATS what I tune into this show for. :thumbup:

Great episode. No soap opera BS.

 
Great season, but different...no big plot driven arcs, but just the characters getting beaten down.

two big things that will have an impact

- Phil and Liz find out that the Soviets are using Lassa as an offensive weapon

- they learn that the US is not developing a crop killing bug, but a bug resistant crop

they keep this second revelation from Paige, when she asks

This has to make them start to question the morality of their missions

 
The CIA can't operate domestically.  Stan's GF is probably on loan from some other agency where she was undercover (and thus not known), working now for the FBI.  

 
3C's said:
Tittle of the episode was "The Soviet Division" which while it points openly to Breland it also could not so openly point to the division coming between Philip and Elizabeth. He's ready to leave and now she again wants to stay. He has nothing to stay for. He doesn't want to do the things he's being asked to do any longer. Stan is moving on with a new woman. The kids are nearly grown up and have missed out on being a real family doing family things. All he has is family and it's not like he/they can just stay there and not do the job.
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I almost think this ends with them moving to South America like Pastor Tim will do..

gets them out of the US, gives them a home that's not Russia and let's them live a normal life

 
Aerial Assault said:
But this was honestly a horribly disappointing season. :(  
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I wouldn't say horribly disappointing but disappointing none the less. Too much wasted time. I didn't really care about the Russian food distribution storyline, Paige and Stan's son's relationship, whatever happened to him btw, and a few other things. I won't bag on it too much and will just chalk it up as not a very good season. It won't keep me from watching next season but they probably stretched it out to get another one in and it would have been better if they just wrapped it up a little quicker.

 
Righetti said:
I almost think this ends with them moving to South America like Pastor Tim will do..

gets them out of the US, gives them a home that's not Russia and let's them live a normal life
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I was wondering about this myself.   I don't think they both make it out alive.  

 
Elizabeth isn't looking to get rid of Phillip or go on with Tuan....she has realized that Phillip is done as a hardcore worker....but acknowledges he has to keep doing it because of the Breland situation. Just work Kimmy and legitimately run the travel agency(to paraphrase) is what she said. Her comments to Tuan weren't to get in with him......but she's being helpful; this job is hard by yourself. I didn't take any dissension between the two from that last conversation.

I'm sure the situation with Pasha when compared to how Henry might handle a forced migration doesn't help either of their mindsets about returning to Russia.

 
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Predictions for the final season?

I think Elizabeth will die and Philip will disappear with the kids, either of his own doing and on the run or in some kind of witness protection.

 
I watched the first four seasons of this show and loved it. Then I got a few weeks behind on Season 5 after watching the opener, and after seeing the middling reviews I just couldn't find the time and motivation to watch the rest.

I'm considering jumping back in with Season 6 to see how it all ends and just catching up on Season 5 via episode recaps and whatnot.  Does this seem doable?  Or should I wait to watch the final two seasons when I have more time?

 
TobiasFunke said:
I watched the first four seasons of this show and loved it. Then I got a few weeks behind on Season 5 after watching the opener, and after seeing the middling reviews I just couldn't find the time and motivation to watch the rest.

I'm considering jumping back in with Season 6 to see how it all ends and just catching up on Season 5 via episode recaps and whatnot.  Does this seem doable?  Or should I wait to watch the final two seasons when I have more time?
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While last season was a bit disappointing,  they did set up a few things for the final one that might be tougher to follow without having seen it all. It may not really matter that much and its possible you could be fine with just reading up on recaps. It's really more to do with the emotional rollercoaster all the characters have been going through.

 
I met Lev Gorn, who plays Arkady, this past week.  We spoke a few times while he was on set at a movie he is shooting.  I have not watched this show, but we started talking about other shows that we like.  I mention The Wire and he says, “I was in that.”  Season 2, he was one of the muscle guys for the Greeks.  We spoke about the show and some others for a good 20 minutes.  He was a really nice guy.

 
Previews for the season make it look like Paige is a bit more involved in actual missions.  Will be interesting to see how far they go there.

 
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