California
Footballguy
Just on a side note, does ATT ever get tired of Apple throwing them under the bus? Do they seriously have no pride?
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The Apple iPhone Thread (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter One
- Start date
You guys that are ruining the thread - you know who you are- please get back to discussing the phone without the catfight stuff. If you can't do that, please don't post.TIA.
J
Guess I read your prior comment and insult wrong then. I thought you knew it was not the norm since you insulted someone in the way you did.Oh well.
OK Guys, this is a 100 page thread. I don't want to kill it.
But if the screamy/insulting exchanges between the iPhone
and the iPhone 
camps don't cool off and become civil, then I'll have to delete this thread. It is WAY too big to edit or otherwise try to defuse this I-Fight.
Please, just be excellent to each other. The next report I get on this one (I've had dozens from both sides) will kill the thread.
Thanks in advance,
Mark Wimer
But if the screamy/insulting exchanges between the iPhone
and the iPhone camps don't cool off and become civil, then I'll have to delete this thread. It is WAY too big to edit or otherwise try to defuse this I-Fight.Please, just be excellent to each other. The next report I get on this one (I've had dozens from both sides) will kill the thread.
Thanks in advance,
Mark Wimer
So why post something that has nothing to do with establishing what the norm is for AT&T and the iPhone?
Harry Manback
Footballguy
Statcruncher
Footballguy
Serious question, do you have some personal turmoil or strife going on that kicked into gear over the past few months? IMO you've always been a good poster, but lately it seems the comedic sarcasm is being replaced by anger.
adonis
Footballguy
The phone is great. Dunno what the problem is with your location, although generalizing about phone issues based on reception in downtown LA is not likely a good idea.I live in a big city with good coverage, and the phone works very well. My 3G worked well, my 4G works great. The phone isn't the issue, although I'm not exactly sure why a blackberry would have better reception than an iPhone, but to conclude that the phone is "terrible" is silly.It's a great phone.
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Harry Manback
Footballguy
Lol no, and thank you for asking, no sarcasm.It just really angers me the way these people continually troll this thread, gloating over evey apple failure while crying foul against anyone who dares point out anything wrong with any droid phone.I'm no fanboy, the majority of apple products don't interest me at all, I've nothing against the droid, but the "me and my phone is better than you and yours shtick is tiring.With tha said (I'm done Joe I swear) there have been times where I've immediately regretted what I've posted and been embarased about how upset I've gotten and I'm not sure why I've reacted the way I have.I feel like I'm going crazy today, cards response to my post had nothing to do with my post. It was like he didn't even read what i said, and already had a pre-loaded retort waiting to hit post regardless of what I said.Oh well, it's the 4th of July weekend, I was just let out of work early and I'm going golfing.I'm going to have a great weekend and I hope you all do too. Even goggins/card trader et al.Have a happy 4th!
Harry Manback
Footballguy
Harry Manback
Footballguy
California
Footballguy
ATT coverage is notoriously bad here in LA and I do know it's not a nationwide problem (I've posted the same before). My relatives in Omaha have perfect coverage with ATT.As a 3G owner, maybe you remember the history of OS 2.0 -> 2.01 and why today's Apple announcement is a big pile of ####.When the 3G first came out (I owned one), owners complained that their signal bars were lower than other ATT phones. People posted all kinds of videos and stuff showing comparisons. Apple said it was a software bug and that the phone was showing the incorrect # of bars. 2.01 came out and it increased iphone bars by 2-3. It didn't actually improve reception or anything, but it made people happier that at least now they were showing the same # of bars as BB and other phones. Again, our reception wasn't getting better. Blackberries were still a whole lot better RF wise. We iphone users were easy to please I guess.
This paragraph really bothers me. Apple is basically just going to undo what they did with the 3G. I'm stunned that they're stunned by this.
Harry Manback
Footballguy
I'm dissappointed they don't have a 'real' fix for this, but I have great coverage in my area with ATT, and I plan on using a bumper regardless, so for me the phone makes sense.It may not for everyone, but please don't go making sweeping generalizations about ATT sucking everywhere, and it being the 'norm'. (not referring to you California)You can't know that.
Walton Goggins
Footballguy
If I got the new iphone or evo, etc and it worked perfectly for me and not for many other people I wouldn't really care. This all boils down to how well it performs for you and not the % that it doesn't for other people.
Walton Goggins
Footballguy
I am sure the fix is too costly for Apple to really fix and they know people are either going to buy the phone or they won't so what's the need to really fix the problem? That's what next gen iphones are for.
Billy Bats
Footballguy
So someone tell me if I have this correct. People complaining about the antenna, saying if you hold it a certain way you lose your signal. But with Apple's letter to the iPhone user today, they're saying you're not really losing your signaly, rather the phone is really showing you what your true signal is?
So the decline in bars is a result of a software glitch in how they calculated the signal, but the real problem is AT&T and the lack of signal to begin with.
Am I getting this correct? Because after I updated to OS4, I created the bar drop issue when wrapping my hand around my 3GS. So it's not really the phone, but the software?
So the decline in bars is a result of a software glitch in how they calculated the signal, but the real problem is AT&T and the lack of signal to begin with.
Am I getting this correct? Because after I updated to OS4, I created the bar drop issue when wrapping my hand around my 3GS. So it's not really the phone, but the software?
California
Footballguy
You're exactly right. Apple can't fix this with this iteration of their phone. I'm really curious what next's year phone will look like, if they do decide to try and fix it. I figured it would little if any cosmetic design changes with some internal hardware and software upgrades.I really envy you guys with great ATT coverage, I really do. I loved my 3g the month that I had it but ATT drove us bonkers. I'm really fond of Android these days but we buy new ipod touch every year and Mrs. Cali is set on a white iphone. I travel overseas pretty frequently and having a GSM iphone would be nice. I could pop in local prepaid sims and use my same phone everywhere. These days I rent a phone at my arriving airport, but actually use my ipod touch/droid and skype to call which works pretty well.
Walton Goggins
Footballguy
So who is the head engineer for Apple and what's the O/U on when they'll be fired/quit/retire?
Walton Goggins
Footballguy
Apple is saying when you see x amount of bars it's actually two bars less so when your phone drops a call it's normal since really the signal strength was horrible to begin with and not as strong as you were led to believe because the phone showed a false signal strength.
California
Footballguy
culdeus
Footballguy
Who ever looks at their signal bars? AT&T coverage is fine in Dallas.
Ned
Footballguy
Its a verizon.net account (POP). There's no archiving option.ETA - This is really stupid, but whatever....I had set up a gmail account a while back with the intention of switching off of Verizon. So I figured I'd add it to the iphone and see this archiving option you were talking about. I saw it automatically was switched on so I went to go see what it looked like compared to my Verizon account. Prior this, all I saw was the Verizon Inbox and nothing else. Now after the change, I see them sorted by Inboxes and then Accounts. Of course clicking on the Accounts view gives me the trash.
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California
Footballguy
California
Footballguy
Gruber is a loyal Apple soldier so his take on this was kind of surprising. Note the bolded.
http://daringfireball.net/2010/07/translation_iphone_4
http://daringfireball.net/2010/07/translation_iphone_4
Glad to see AT&T have improved the network in that area. When I was up there on business a few years ago we had AT&T guys have issues around grapvine/southlake. Also, had issues in carrolton.
culdeus
Footballguy
The reception thing doesn't bother me all that much. I hardly talk on the phone anyways. Nearly all work stuff is Email and any calls are mostly scheduled.
I just find myself with a need for an all in one PDA, mp3, game thing. And this thing still is the best I can get the service paid for on right now. So it goes.
I just find myself with a need for an all in one PDA, mp3, game thing. And this thing still is the best I can get the service paid for on right now. So it goes.
adonis
Footballguy
I don't look at my bars of reception, I judge how good a phone is by how it functions as a phone - call clarity, dropped calls, reception, etc. Now, some of those things are both phone and network, but as far as I've experienced, and I have owned an iphone since day 1 of iphones, is that the phone functionality of the device has always been pretty good. Is it the best out there? I'll leave that to the technical experts to bicker over, but it's clear to most that the phone isn't terrible, it's not even poor or just fair. It's pretty good. Are there better phones out there? Probably...but I've never been limited by this device as a phone.The crappy thing is that the functionality of the phone and the performance of the network are so intertwined that its' hard to determine which is which, but I can say the phone isn't terrible because in my area, I've had little to no problems with it, and if the phone was "terrible", it'd be terrible everywhere, not just LA.It has it's problems, and has had its problems since its inception, but I don't think phone quality is one of them.
17seconds
root of all aliai
Apple says signal bars are the problem
This doesn't surprise me at all since the relation of signal strength to signal bars is actually quite complicated. There's also not enough thought put into that on software teams.
However it seems like they have crappy RF as well.
This doesn't surprise me at all since the relation of signal strength to signal bars is actually quite complicated. There's also not enough thought put into that on software teams.
However it seems like they have crappy RF as well.
Walton Goggins
Footballguy
Can't see how anyone can believe this
We are talking about people complaining about holding their phone a certain way and the signal goes out, dropping a call, not in a particular area where the signal is weak to begin with.
Otis
Footballguy
Holy crapOK Guys, this is a 100 page thread. I don't want to kill it.
But if the screamy/insulting exchanges between the iPhoneand the iPhone
camps don't cool off and become civil, then I'll have to delete this thread. It is WAY too big to edit or otherwise try to defuse this I-Fight.
Please, just be excellent to each other. The next report I get on this one (I've had dozens from both sides) will kill the thread.
Thanks in advance,
Mark Wimer
You guys -- on both sides of this -- are such enormous losers. I cant believe people are reporting posts over this cell phone nerd nonsense. Trust me, I've been part of these debates, been annoyed by moronic comments, and dealt with constant personal insults from certain posters. But reporting posts? Christ you are embarrassing.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Bolded the funny part...so basically, you want to be able to post negative stuff about the droid, but only positive stuff should be posted about the iPhone?Seems you are crying foul over anything negative posted about the iPhone.
CGRdrJoe
Footballguy
http://www.pcworld.com/article/200453/ante....html?tk=hp_blg
Apple on Friday issued a carefully worded statement admitting that, yes, there's something wrong with the iPhone 4; but, no, it's not the alleged problem you've heard about.
While Apple fessed up to using a flawed formula to calculate the number of bars of signal strength displayed on the iPhone, it also defended the iPhone 4's much-maligned antenna design, calling the handset's wireless performance "the best we have ever shipped."
Corporate denial at its worst? Not so, says Spencer Webb, president of AntennaSys, an antenna design, integration, and consulting firm. Webb on Friday ran preliminary tests on the iPhone 4's antenna and reached the same conclusion as Apple: Everything's (mostly) okay.
"My conclusion is that all the hype has been just hype," Webb says. "It's not any more sensitive to hand position that was the first-generation iPhone--and probably many other phones on the market."
Some users report that when they hold the iPhone 4 tightly and cover the black strip in the lower left corner of the metal band, signal strength can drop 4 or even 5 bars. That, they claim, is evidence of the phone's flawed antenna design.
Webb and a colleague decided to run their own tests, which he admits were brief and subjective. "This was a non-scientific test, but it was done by two engineers who deal with RF devices for a living," he says.
First, they placed a call on an iPhone 4 while holding the handset from the top. They then switched to the infamous "grip of death"--holding the bottom of the phone tightly with two hands.
"We succeeded in taking a five-bar display and reducing it to one bar by doing that," Webb says. "But the call remained solid and never dropped."
Next, they took Webb's first-generation iPhone (from 2007) and repeated the experiment: "We got the exact same results." Their findings, he says, support Apple's contention that nearly all of today's cell phones are susceptible to human interference.
"(G)ripping almost any mobile phone in certain ways will reduce its reception by one or more bars. This is true of iPhone 4, iPhone 3GS, as well as many Droid, Nokia and RIM phones," Apple said in its statement.
Webb also took a piece of electrical tape and wrapped it around the iPhone's metal band where the hand was causing interference. He then repeated the experiment above. "There was absolutely no difference between having the electrical tape and not having it," he reports.
Webb says he's agreed with Apple's stance from the beginning, and has written as much in his blog. He plans to do more iPhone antenna testing next week and publish the results. He's confident his findings will concur with what he's seen thus far.
"Any handheld radio device is going to suffer the same way if you put your hand over the antenna," he says. "You're going to cause a reduction in performance, period. That's not a news flash."
Well, if that's the case, why all the controversy now?
"Over the years we've gone from cell phones that were bricks with antennas popping up the top, to flip phones with retractable antennas, to phones with bumps for antennas, to phones that are rectangular monoliths that don't have any external antenna protrusion at all," he says.
The latest design means that today's consumer "doesn't have an antenna consciousness. All of a sudden, we're discovering, 'Oh my gosh, there's this antenna, and we can cover it with our hands and it affects performance.'"
"Yes, it does," he adds. "It always has, and it always will."
Apple on Friday issued a carefully worded statement admitting that, yes, there's something wrong with the iPhone 4; but, no, it's not the alleged problem you've heard about.
While Apple fessed up to using a flawed formula to calculate the number of bars of signal strength displayed on the iPhone, it also defended the iPhone 4's much-maligned antenna design, calling the handset's wireless performance "the best we have ever shipped."
Corporate denial at its worst? Not so, says Spencer Webb, president of AntennaSys, an antenna design, integration, and consulting firm. Webb on Friday ran preliminary tests on the iPhone 4's antenna and reached the same conclusion as Apple: Everything's (mostly) okay.
"My conclusion is that all the hype has been just hype," Webb says. "It's not any more sensitive to hand position that was the first-generation iPhone--and probably many other phones on the market."
Some users report that when they hold the iPhone 4 tightly and cover the black strip in the lower left corner of the metal band, signal strength can drop 4 or even 5 bars. That, they claim, is evidence of the phone's flawed antenna design.
Webb and a colleague decided to run their own tests, which he admits were brief and subjective. "This was a non-scientific test, but it was done by two engineers who deal with RF devices for a living," he says.
First, they placed a call on an iPhone 4 while holding the handset from the top. They then switched to the infamous "grip of death"--holding the bottom of the phone tightly with two hands.
"We succeeded in taking a five-bar display and reducing it to one bar by doing that," Webb says. "But the call remained solid and never dropped."
Next, they took Webb's first-generation iPhone (from 2007) and repeated the experiment: "We got the exact same results." Their findings, he says, support Apple's contention that nearly all of today's cell phones are susceptible to human interference.
"(G)ripping almost any mobile phone in certain ways will reduce its reception by one or more bars. This is true of iPhone 4, iPhone 3GS, as well as many Droid, Nokia and RIM phones," Apple said in its statement.
Webb also took a piece of electrical tape and wrapped it around the iPhone's metal band where the hand was causing interference. He then repeated the experiment above. "There was absolutely no difference between having the electrical tape and not having it," he reports.
Webb says he's agreed with Apple's stance from the beginning, and has written as much in his blog. He plans to do more iPhone antenna testing next week and publish the results. He's confident his findings will concur with what he's seen thus far.
"Any handheld radio device is going to suffer the same way if you put your hand over the antenna," he says. "You're going to cause a reduction in performance, period. That's not a news flash."
Well, if that's the case, why all the controversy now?
"Over the years we've gone from cell phones that were bricks with antennas popping up the top, to flip phones with retractable antennas, to phones with bumps for antennas, to phones that are rectangular monoliths that don't have any external antenna protrusion at all," he says.
The latest design means that today's consumer "doesn't have an antenna consciousness. All of a sudden, we're discovering, 'Oh my gosh, there's this antenna, and we can cover it with our hands and it affects performance.'"
"Yes, it does," he adds. "It always has, and it always will."
CGRdrJoe
Footballguy
awesome link, I'm going to play with this design your own feature
I just made a custom skin for everyone with lousy reception. You can at least pretend you have 5 bars.http://i50.tinypic.com/11so56d.jpg
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goonsquad
Think different.
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Ned
Footballguy
I'm buying that.
the moops
Footballguy
No.
Ned
Footballguy
Exactly my take.Pre-bumper - 3 dropped calls in my office where I never had a dropped call on my old 3G. (Edit - all in the same day)Post-bumper - 0 dropped calls in ~ 2 weeks.I think the formula bit is just a convenient way of 'addressing' the issue.
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No. The Apple statement was nebulous, probably intentionally so, and seemed to be crafted to divide folks into the standard love/hate armed camps. Two snippets from the Anandtech article say everything you need to know about the antenna issue:sho nuff said:
Summary: the iPhone 4 antenna performs better than earlier iPhone antennas when it faces low signal strength, either from tower placement or from touching the bare antenna with your hand.
Summary: The iPhone 4 antenna's performance is impacted much more than the 3GS' when you hold it in your bare hand (19.8 dB signal loss vs. 1.9 dB signal loss). Putting a case on the phone results in an improvement of 12.6 dB for the iPhone 4 (19.8 - 7.2) whereas putting a case on the iPhone 3GS made antenna performance worse by 1.3 db (1.9 - 3.2).The upshot is, if you want the best possible signal performance from the iPhone 4, you have to put a skin or a case on it or leave it in your pocket and use a Bluetooth headset. Apple's software update will not improve the phone's attenuation performance, it will only provide a more accurate reading of the phone's true signal strength to the user.
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Walton Goggins
Footballguy
tdoss
Footballguy
What upsets me about Jobs and Apple is the blatant lying and holier than though attitude.
People complain that the calls/bars drop when held in the left hand.
"Don't hold it that way"
Anandtech article comes out with great testing and evaluation of the antenna issue...showing that the bars are actually inflated and overstated.
Apple comes out with statement of, "We found out our bars are incorrectly calculated...we're STUNNED!"
It's all BS...Apple reminds me of the presidency with all the spin and nonsense that they come up with in response to issues. And acting like they had no idea about the range that the fifth bar had is downright insulting.
I love my iPhone but Jobs/Apple can really sour a person over time.
People complain that the calls/bars drop when held in the left hand.
"Don't hold it that way"
Anandtech article comes out with great testing and evaluation of the antenna issue...showing that the bars are actually inflated and overstated.
Apple comes out with statement of, "We found out our bars are incorrectly calculated...we're STUNNED!"
It's all BS...Apple reminds me of the presidency with all the spin and nonsense that they come up with in response to issues. And acting like they had no idea about the range that the fifth bar had is downright insulting.
I love my iPhone but Jobs/Apple can really sour a person over time.
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