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The Clay Mathews “Roughing” Call... (1 Viewer)

Stinkin Ref

Stinkin Ref

IBL Representative
Look I get it....the NFL doesn’t want you to hit the QB....and I think we all kind of know the “body weight” thing when we see it....but this was crazy and although I didn’t watch the game, it sounds like it may have factored in to the outcome...but honestly in my mind, if I had to make a video and say “this is how you do need to hit the QB”....this would have been the perfect example...he wasn’t late....he didn’t go high....he didn’t go low....he didn’t lead with the helmet as a weapon....he went for the mid section and wrapped him up and tackled him....it looked like he actually “let up” a little bit and could have delivered a bigger blow....or really could have used his body weight....I’m ok to a certain extent of taking care of the QB, but when it starts affecting the outcome, its a little different....I even hate sometimes the “low” calls when an olineman is pushing the guy down as he is contacting the QB....I’m not sure what they are supposed to do....you got guys like Von, etc making $20 mil a year, yet its gonna start costing you games....crazy...

 
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Too many roughing calls

Too many ellipses

The league has been legislating good defense out of the game for years now but this year it's really, really bad. It's like the owners didn't realize the arena league and its model really did fail.

 
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it absolutely cost the game. GB intercepted. would have been game over.

the NFL is getting flag happy with QBs. there was a call against MIN for roughing the passer that was bad too

 
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The NFL has become a joke, hard to watch, QBs need to have flags or make it reviewiable

Tom Brady gets hit low, than a new rule to protect that

Arron Rodgers gets slammed by body weight now a rule for this

Clay Mathews is so right on this the game changed on that play, even though Minn was called for one just as bad earlier

If it weren't for the subscriber contest I wouldn't even watch it most of time, 

 
ref said it wasn't body weight but that Matthews 'lifted him up'.  which makes it an even worse call

 
Worst call ever.  An arm tackle on a Qb who is in the process of throwing the ball  is now a penalty.  

I guess he is supposed to try and push him?  Grab his flag?

edit:  the call on Min earlier was also a joke.  

 
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This was so utterly bogus....Clay hit him around the waist with his arms, head off to the side, probably landed on him with 10% of his body weight..................... just a textbook tackle that the NFL should be showing as an example at rookie symposiums.

He was well committed and literally like 4 inches from contact when the ball was released.

 
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Awful call, obviously. 

There is no intelligent way to argue that Matthews lifted Cousins up and slammed him to the ground.  The only reason Matthews' feet left the ground near the end of the tackle was because of that funny thing called gravity.  

 
This isn't hard.

He didn't tackle Cousins because Cousins didn't have the ball.  He hit him and drove him into the ground after her got rid of the ball. 

What defensive players need to recognize - given the new rule/stricter enforcement of the old rule - is that they've arrived at the QB too late for a tackle and not tackle the QB at all. 

You might think the rule is dumb. Maybe it is. But it's not difficult to understand why it's called and it shouldn't be hard for players to learn how not to have it called on them. 

It's a QB driven league - not a Clay Matthews type driven one. 

So, to sum up -

A) tackle (wrap up, use your body, etc) the QB when he has the ball

B) don't tackle QBs that no longer have the ball

 
If they are going to call hits that are not illegal then they might as well hit them with everything they got and get their moneys worth.

 
Underachievers said:
Blame it on the Brady's and Rodger's of the NFL who cry for a flag everytime they are touched.  Don't blame the ref's.  
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No, blame it on the Nathan Petermans and Drew Stantons of the NFL who come out and stink things up when they are QB'ing for the guy that got hurt.  If you think watching the NFL is painful this way, try watching it with 11 teams sporting "backup" QB's.

The NFL doesn't have a penalty problem, they have a QB developmental problem.  They need to re-instate NFL Europe or some other official minor league right now so they can get QB's more work.  The product has been dying ever since guys like Jeff Garcia and Kurt Warner stopped getting work.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
This isn't hard.

He didn't tackle Cousins because Cousins didn't have the ball.  He hit him and drove him into the ground after her got rid of the ball. 

What defensive players need to recognize - given the new rule/stricter enforcement of the old rule - is that they've arrived at the QB too late for a tackle and not tackle the QB at all. 

You might think the rule is dumb. Maybe it is. But it's not difficult to understand why it's called and it shouldn't be hard for players to learn how not to have it called on them. 

It's a QB driven league - not a Clay Matthews type driven one. 

So, to sum up -

A) tackle (wrap up, use your body, etc) the QB when he has the ball

B) don't tackle QBs that no longer have the ball
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You start out by saying "He didn't tackle Cousins" and then explain why he should not have tackled him. 

 
The Saints had two of these go against them last week and it did contribute to the loss as it led to a Bucs TD in a one score game. Yeah it’s out of control, and it’s totally random.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
 That's not what he was called for. He was called for sticking the landing..
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Which is equally ridiculous.  If you are falling on a player, it is impossible for you not to land with your body weight on him, and it was clear that Matthews didn't give him a little extra.  

Besides, what is Cousins had pulled the ball back and the play turned into a sack?  Does Matthews get flagged for "tackling him too hard"?  What a joke. 

 
massraider said:
He called it on Kendricks earlier.

And Andy is right. Stop tackling defenseless guys without the ball.
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What if Cousins arm motion was a pump fake?  The time difference between the ball being released and the contact occurring was inside of human reaction time. A mongoose could not have changed its course in time, had the mongoose had eyes on the top of its head to see the ball released, which of course Matthews did not as he was in the act of clearing his head past Cousin's body, as is required.  This was an awful call, seen as such by all except Minnesota Vikings fans and Tony Corrente who doesn't seem to understand that Cousins follow through is what lifted his right leg, not Matthews action.

 
Ghost Rider said:
Which is equally ridiculous.  If you are falling on a player, it is impossible for you not to land with your body weight on him, and it was clear that Matthews didn't give him a little extra.  

Besides, what is Cousins had pulled the ball back and the play turned into a sack?  Does Matthews get flagged for "tackling him too hard"?  What a joke. 
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Bold1: It wasn't necessary for him to be falling on the player at all.

Bold2: It depends a little on the angle. Neither are clear and one, from the perspective of the umpire, it looked much more like he was "burping" the QB.

Bold3: What if the moon was made of green cheese? The ball had already left his hand.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
Bold1: It wasn't necessary for him to be falling on the player at all.

Bold2: It depends a little on the angle. Neither are clear and one, from the perspective of the umpire, it looked much more like he was "burping" the QB.

Bold3: What if the moon was made of green cheese? The ball had already left his hand.
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Usually agree with you on a lot of stuff, but you could not be more wrong here.  Look at this video here, and tell me how he is supposed to know whether or not the ball is gone, and (2) how he should have tackled him differently.  

https://deadspin.com/a-bull####-penalty-let-the-vikings-tie-the-packers-1829095434

 
Kitrick Taylor said:
Usually agree with you on a lot of stuff, but you could not be more wrong here.  Look at this video here, and tell me how he is supposed to know whether or not the ball is gone, and (2) how he should have tackled him differently.  

https://deadspin.com/a-bull####-penalty-let-the-vikings-tie-the-packers-1829095434
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 Oh cap. You cited Deadspin. I got nothing now. 

 
Man Andy, I’m a Vikings fan and even I can’t understand how you’re continually defending that call.   It’s as bad as it gets. Regardless of what they (the refs/League/etc) say the penalty was for, that was as clean and benign of a hit on a QB in the act of throwing a ball that you’ll see.  He literally did everything correctly...didn’t hit him late, head to the side, didn’t lift him up, braces himself to avoid full body weight on Cousins...and still got flagged at a spot in the game where you better be sure of a call like that.  Brutal call, terrible reasoning, and I jut can’t wrap my head around the other side that you’re on claiming the hit warranted a roughing call.

 
Actually, that Deadspin video shows it really well.

Matthews hits Cousins as he's throwing (or close enough for arguments sake) but then drives him diagonally with his next step - resulting in his ending up on top of Cousins. I'll agree he couldn't avoid the contact but maintain that he didn't need to end up on top of him. The second part is what the NFL is trying to avoid - his the Barr/Rodgers situation.

 
Kitrick Taylor said:
Usually agree with you on a lot of stuff, but you could not be more wrong here.  Look at this video here, and tell me how he is supposed to know whether or not the ball is gone, and (2) how he should have tackled him differently.  

https://deadspin.com/a-bull####-penalty-let-the-vikings-tie-the-packers-1829095434
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Andy is generally good people, but he is a homer and will never see this not the way Packer fans do, but the way the rest of the sentient world does.  I know, I lived among them for a few years.  I have seen the syndrome.  It was difficult to deal with, but there were compensations, for instance their women longed for men from a place where one did not have to sit indoors to watch a football game and have noise piped in to sound enthusiastic because the menfolk were too busy eating quiche and arguing the merits of a blush rose' as the basis for their wine spritzers. 

 
SayWhat? said:
Man Andy, I’m a Vikings fan and even I can’t understand how you’re continually defending that call.   It’s as bad as it gets. Regardless of what they (the refs/League/etc) say the penalty was for, that was as clean and benign of a hit on a QB in the act of throwing a ball that you’ll see.  He literally did everything correctly...didn’t hit him late, head to the side, didn’t lift him up, braces himself to avoid full body weight on Cousins...and still got flagged at a spot in the game where you better be sure of a call like that.  Brutal call, terrible reasoning, and I jut can’t wrap my head around the other side that you’re on claiming the hit warranted a roughing call.
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If he was doing it just to piss off Packer fans it would be working beautifully.  That's not it.  Some homers are actually blinded by their homerism.  No biggie, it goes both ways. 

 
Kitrick Taylor said:
Just for the video.  I don't care what the opinion of the writer is.  Look at the video wherever you want.
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 Yeah, that was too snarky. I apologize. 

The video is good because it shows what the ref saw - that rather than driving through Cousins, he turned him and ended up on top. That's the no-no here. And it's what Corrente maintains he called and indeed is what he called earlier in the game on Kendricks.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
 Yeah, that was too snarky. I apologize. 

The video is good because it shows what the ref saw - that rather than driving through Cousins, he turned him and ended up on top. That's the no-no here. And it's what Corrente maintains he called and indeed is what he called earlier in the game on Kendricks.
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Corrente said he threw the flag because Matthews lifted Cousins up.

See if you can find that anywhere in the video.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
 Yeah, that was too snarky. I apologize. 

The video is good because it shows what the ref saw - that rather than driving through Cousins, he turned him and ended up on top. That's the no-no here. And it's what Corrente maintains he called and indeed is what he called earlier in the game on Kendricks.
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Yeah, from one angle he appears to "buck him" and drive him downward.  That's why it got called.  I personally think it is a horrific call, still, but also think Clay is a complete buffoon for learning nothing from last week's game --- you know, the one where his team made a game clinching defensive stop that was reversed because of him roughing the passer.   This isn't stuff you expect from a veteran all-pro.   Just dumb.

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
Andy is generally good people, but he is a homer and will never see this not the way Packer fans do, but the way the rest of the sentient world does.  I know, I lived among them for a few years.  I have seen the syndrome.  It was difficult to deal with, but there were compensations, for instance their women longed for men from a place where one did not have to sit indoors to watch a football game and have noise piped in to sound enthusiastic because the menfolk were too busy eating quiche and arguing the merits of a blush rose' as the basis for their wine spritzers. 
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 Yes. We all long to be as objective and dispassionate as Packers fans. 

 
davearm said:
Corrente said he threw the flag because Matthews lifted Cousins up.

See if you can find that anywhere in the video.
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Corrente lied.   He doesn't know why.  He just "knows it was a penalty."   That doesn't mean anything - refs lie and rationalize all the time post-game.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
A) tackle (wrap up, use your body, etc) the QB when he has the ball

B) don't tackle QBs that no longer have the ball
Click to expand...


Not sure if you are serious.  Cousins had the ball when Matthews first made contact.  This was not anywhere close to a late hit.  What you are suggesting here has nothing to do with the actual rules involved.  (Not a Packers or Vikings fan btw, and it was obviously a terrible call to anyone objective)

 
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Kenag122002 said:
Not sure if you are serious.  Cousins had the ball when Matthews first made contact.  This was not anywhere close to a late hit.  What you are suggesting here has nothing to do with the actual rules involved.  (Not a Packers or Vikings fan btw, and it was obviously a terrible call to anyone objective)
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He wasnt called for a late hit. Good lord. 

 
Andy Dufresne said:
That's how he ended up on top. I don't know what to tell you if you can't see that Matthews turned/lifted Cousins to end up on top.
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Matthews ended up on top by lifting Cousins?  He didn't just end up on top through the normal course of tackling him?  You sure about that?

I'm curious though, what part of Cousin's body went upward in the course of Matthews' lifting maneuver?

 
davearm said:
Matthews ended up on top by lifting Cousins?  He didn't just end up on top through the normal course of tackling him?  You sure about that?

I'm curious though, what part of Cousin's body went upward in the course of Matthews' lifting maneuver?
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I'm pretty sure you're not even trying to understand. 

 
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