The FBG Top 300 Books of All Time (fiction edition) | #20 Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry | Running list in posts #3 and #4 (14 Viewers)

[Ilov80s]

After Ulysses was ranked #1 by the Random House people, I tried to read it. I gave up after about 30 pages. I don’t think I’m a stupid guy but I had no idea what I was reading.

Then a friend of mine told me that there are books out there than explain Ulysses page by page. But that much effort for a novel doesn’t interest me. I read novels for entertainment and pleasure- I want to be swept away by a good story. I offer no criticism here of those folks who appreciate poetic writing or the other aspects that cause Ulysses and similar works to be regarded as great novels. But it’s just not my cup of tea.

One could always just watch "Oh Brother Where Art Thou"...

I think that movie is based on Homer’s The Odyssey.

 

[Joe Bryant]

After Ulysses was ranked #1 by the Random House people, I tried to read it. I gave up after about 30 pages. I don’t think I’m a stupid guy but I had no idea what I was reading.

Then a friend of mine told me that there are books out there than explain Ulysses page by page. But that much effort for a novel doesn’t interest me. I read novels for entertainment and pleasure- I want to be swept away by a good story. I offer no criticism here of those folks who appreciate poetic writing or the other aspects that cause Ulysses and similar works to be regarded as great novels. But it’s just not my cup of tea.

One could always just watch "Oh Brother Where Art Thou"...

I think that movie is based on Homer’s The Odyssey.

My mistake. You're right of course. Was reading too fast and saw all the talk about The Odyssey.

 

[Joe Bryant]

A Casual Readers Guide to Ulysses

 

[kupcho1]

A Casual Readers Guide to Ulysses

Very nice! I wasn't aware there were two schema both by Joyce himself.

I would argue one point, however.

The text is dense, references erudite and dated, and perspectives shifting between a character’s internal monologue to a third person narrator without a line break or punctuation to distinguish between them.

The version I have does designate dialog with a "-" preceding the sentence (rather than having it enclosed in quotation marks). Perhaps his didn't have anything. Or maybe he was confusing it with William Gaddis' J R (my #69 book):

The writing style of J R is intended to mimic Gaddis's view of contemporary society: "a chaos of disconnections, a blizzard of noise." The novel is told almost entirely in dialogue, and there is often little indication (other than conversational context) of which character is speaking. (Gaddis later said he did this in order to make the reader a collaborator in the process of creating the characters.) There are also no chapters, with transitions between scenes occurring by way of shifts in focalization: for example, a character who is in a meeting may leave the meeting, get in his car, and drive off, passing another character, who becomes the subject of the next scene without any break in the continuity of the narration (though the novel is written in a discontinuous or fragmentary tone).

 

[Ilov80s]

A Casual Readers Guide to Ulysses

Very nice! I wasn't aware there were two schema both by Joyce himself.

I would argue one point, however.

The text is dense, references erudite and dated, and perspectives shifting between a character’s internal monologue to a third person narrator without a line break or punctuation to distinguish between them.

The version I have does designate dialog with a "-" preceding the sentence (rather than having it enclosed in quotation marks). Perhaps his didn't have anything. Or maybe he was confusing it with William Gaddis' J R (my #69 book):

The writing style of J R is intended to mimic Gaddis's view of contemporary society: "a chaos of disconnections, a blizzard of noise." The novel is told almost entirely in dialogue, and there is often little indication (other than conversational context) of which character is speaking. (Gaddis later said he did this in order to make the reader a collaborator in the process of creating the characters.) There are also no chapters, with transitions between scenes occurring by way of shifts in focalization: for example, a character who is in a meeting may leave the meeting, get in his car, and drive off, passing another character, who becomes the subject of the next scene without any break in the continuity of the narration (though the novel is written in a discontinuous or fragmentary tone).

The Recognitions by Gaddis is similar. It’s a tough read, lengthy read.

 

[krista4]

I can't promise that we'll catch up on all of these, but bookcook chat activated as I wanted OH to talk about his #2 work, Pale Fire, and suggested he combine it with Lolita since that one has come up now, too.

Right now there is aluminum foil going on a sheetpan. What, pray tell, is this?

Pale Fire by Vladimir Nabokov and Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov

Taken together it’s hard to believe that these novels were written by the same person; they’re so dissimilar stylistically. Both concern meta-themes of the relationship between authorship and authority, exploring the root of both. Therefore both employ extraordinarily unreliable but believable narrators, and the most unlikable people are presented fairly likably.

As an aside, David Mamet was asked to write a script for Lolita and it was rejected by the producers who said “You made this guy look like a pedophile,” apparently believing that Humbert Humbert is something of a hero, missing the point that he was a terrible person who can’t be trusted to know his own mind, like the rest of us, and therefore everything he says is meant to be treated suspiciously.

Same thing with Pale Fire, though it’s so much deeper than that. It’s essentially a long poem, a book-length poem that features a forward and postscripts, and using only that framework, you’re treated to (1) an excellent long poem but also (2) a novel that features betrayal, scorned lovers, unreliable narrators, academic bickering, truly funny jokes, and the end result is satisfying like a novel, with a beginning and an end, if you’re willing to put in the work. While it looks abstruse and has a strange shape, it works the way a novel does. Somehow, impossibly, it’s wildly entertaining and fun to read. There’s so much goofy stuff in it – it’s filled with acrostics and hidden ciphers, all of which may add to the novel but aren’t the stuff of the novel. It’s a titanic work of imagination that is also Swiss-watch perfect. You couldn’t add anything or subtract anything and make it…it’s elegant, perfectly elegant.

I believe that Nabokov is the best novelist in any language, and he happened to have written novels in three. I think his counterpart in poetry is William Carlos Williams - every word is so exact and crystalline that it can’t be embellished or diminished.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Bought Frankenstein and Dracula today to add to the summer of horror. First is Devil House, though.

 

[krista4]

A wee review of Don Quixote by Miguel de Cervantes, while he's making a marinade for some chicken:

Kind of amazing that the first Western novel freaking crushed it, and has only been topped a handful of times since then. It’s a compelling story with a ludicrous main character and features plays within plays, with the incredible task of displaying to the reader that the protagonist is ironically the opposite of what he would want you to believe. It’s wonderful and bottomless, among the first instances of meta-fiction, and it still hasn’t been touched in terms of his exploration of the depths of this form.

 

[krista4]

Chicken is in the oven! I just inquired as to the marinade. I'm told "it's a marinade of various condiments from the fridge that I should get rid of."

Invisible Man by Ralph Ellison

I think it’s a crime that this isn’t required reading in every school. While it’s an extrapolation or a distillation of the Black experience, it’s no less moving. The narrator begins telling his tale, opening with a scene of one of the most harrowing depictions of a fight or battle royale, where all the young Black students are fighting to pick up pennies, for the amusement of these White club members, before he’s presented with a scholarship to a Black university. That’s not the worst thing that happens in the book, but it seems so real and personal that it's one of most shocking things I've ever read.

It's about finding out that the protagonist is invisible simply because he’s never seen as a man in full, but as emblematic of all Black men. Every single step that he makes – he's invisible to white people unless he’s of use to them, and if he deviates outside, then he’s shunned. He's invisible to Black people unless he becomes a leader to them. There’s no room for an actual identity, never a chance to develop his own identity. Every choice - even down to the food he eats - is perilous. After graduating college and going to the big city, he sees someone selling yams, and he’s excited until he thinks that means he's a “country Negro” and then it tastes terrible, that he’s somehow supposed to be above it. It’s so impossibly tragic…Ellison does a great job so that the whole time you’re searching for an actual person, and that person totally eludes you.

 

[Eephus]

Even moreso than the FFA's knowledge of the classics, I'm impressed by OH's to form complex thoughts while cooking. I'm notorious in my house for entering "cooking mode" where my bidirectional communications skills are impaired. I've been known to have thoughts wander away mid-sentence while I'm distracted by something I'm preparing. But if you asked Mrs. Eephus, she'd probably say there's more impact on my listening abilities. They're not the greatest to start with but stuff just bounces off my ears if I'm really concentrating on what I'm doing in the kitchen.

 

[kupcho1]

Coming in at #22, an all time classic

22

The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn

Mark Twain

kupcho1, turnjose7, chaos34, KeithR, Oliver Humanzee, Dr_Zaius, krista4, Psychopav, shuke

22. The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
Oliver Humanzee: #16
kupcho1: #18
KeithR: #21
Dr_Zaius: #24
chaos34: #27
kirsta4: #33
turnjose7: #35
Psychopav: #38
shuke: #54
Total points: 406
Average: 45.1

And here we have the power of volume. The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn wasn't in anyone's top 10, but with 9 people submitting the book, the score speaks for itself.

 

[shuke]

Coming in at #24, an all time classic

24

The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn

Mark Twain

kupcho1, turnjose7, chaos34, KeithR, Oliver Humanzee, Dr_Zaius, krista4, Psychopav

24. The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
Oliver Humanzee: #16
kupcho1: #18
KeithR: #21
Dr_Zaius: #24
chaos34: #27
kirsta4: #33
turnjose7: #35
Psychopav: #38
Total points: 389
Average: 48.6

And here we have the power of volume. The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn wasn't in anyone's top 10, but with 8 people submitting a book at no lower than #38 (33 points), the score speaks for itself.

I'll be back later to talk about the book.

I had this ranked at #54.

 

[Ilov80s]

Even moreso than the FFA's knowledge of the classics, I'm impressed by OH's to form complex thoughts while cooking. I'm notorious in my house for entering "cooking mode" where my bidirectional communications skills are impaired. I've been known to have thoughts wander away mid-sentence while I'm distracted by something I'm preparing. But if you asked Mrs. Eephus, she'd probably say there's more impact on my listening abilities. They're not the greatest to start with but stuff just bounces off my ears if I'm really concentrating on what I'm doing in the kitchen.

Great point lol. When I’m cooking, I can’t have any conversation. Music is ok but no podcasts. It takes too much concentration for me lol.

 

[kupcho1]

Coming in at #24, an all time classic

24

The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn

Mark Twain

kupcho1, turnjose7, chaos34, KeithR, Oliver Humanzee, Dr_Zaius, krista4, Psychopav

24. The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
Oliver Humanzee: #16
kupcho1: #18
KeithR: #21
Dr_Zaius: #24
chaos34: #27
kirsta4: #33
turnjose7: #35
Psychopav: #38
Total points: 389
Average: 48.6

And here we have the power of volume. The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn wasn't in anyone's top 10, but with 8 people submitting a book at no lower than #38 (33 points), the score speaks for itself.

I'll be back later to talk about the book.

I had this ranked at #54.

You are correct. Google sheets strikes again. It was on your sheet and on the tabulation page in exactly the same form and format, but wasn't being picked up.

The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain is #22
There'll be a new #24 tomorrow.

FML

 

[KarmaPolice]

@kupcho1 sorry if I asked before or it was already addressed - were you going to post each participant's top 3-5 books at the end?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Even moreso than the FFA's knowledge of the classics, I'm impressed by OH's to form complex thoughts while cooking. I'm notorious in my house for entering "cooking mode" where my bidirectional communications skills are impaired. I've been known to have thoughts wander away mid-sentence while I'm distracted by something I'm preparing. But if you asked Mrs. Eephus, she'd probably say there's more impact on my listening abilities. They're not the greatest to start with but stuff just bounces off my ears if I'm really concentrating on what I'm doing in the kitchen.

Great point lol. When I’m cooking, I can’t have any conversation. Music is ok but no podcasts. It takes too much concentration for me lol.

Same, I fluster easily.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

@kupcho1 sorry if I asked before or it was already addressed - were you going to post each participant's top 3-5 books at the end?

I think he said the entire lists would be made available.

 

[kupcho1]

@kupcho1 sorry if I asked before or it was already addressed - were you going to post each participant's top 3-5 books at the end?

I'll post the entire spreadsheet

 

[Don Quixote]

Coincidentally, I got in the mail today my preordered copy of the new Mark Twain biography by Ron Chernow (author of Hamilton, et al.)

 

[kupcho1]

Coincidentally, I got in the mail today my preordered copy of the new Mark Twain biography by Ron Chernow (author of Hamilton, et al.)

I don't read much non-fiction, but this is of interest.

 

[Dan Lambskin]

Chicken is in the oven! I just inquired as to the marinade. I'm told "it's a marinade of various condiments from the fridge that I should get rid of."

Invisible Man by Ralph Ellison

I think it’s a crime that this isn’t required reading in every school. While it’s an extrapolation or a distillation of the Black experience, it’s no less moving. The narrator begins telling his tale, opening with a scene of one of the most harrowing depictions of a fight or battle royale, where all the young Black students are fighting to pick up pennies, for the amusement of these White club members, before he’s presented with a scholarship to a Black university. That’s not the worst thing that happens in the book, but it seems so real and personal that it's one of most shocking things I've ever read.

It's about finding out that the protagonist is invisible simply because he’s never seen as a man in full, but as emblematic of all Black men. Every single step that he makes – he's invisible to white people unless he’s of use to them, and if he deviates outside, then he’s shunned. He's invisible to Black people unless he becomes a leader to them. There’s no room for an actual identity, never a chance to develop his own identity. Every choice - even down to the food he eats - is perilous. After graduating college and going to the big city, he sees someone selling yams, and he’s excited until he thinks that means he's a “country Negro” and then it tastes terrible, that he’s somehow supposed to be above it. It’s so impossibly tragic…Ellison does a great job so that the whole time you’re searching for an actual person, and that person totally eludes you.

Was one of the few books I enjoyed reading in high school English

 

[kupcho1]

OK, back on track ()

24

Blood Meridian; or, The Evening Redness in the West

Cormac McCarthy

kupcho1, ilov80s, chaos34, Oliver Humanzee, shuke

24. Blood Meridian; or, The Evening Redness in the West by Cormac McCarthy
Oliver Humanzee: #4
shuke: #9
ilov80s: #14
chaos34: #21
kupcho1: #30
Total points: 399
Average: 79.8

Now that we're down to 1 book per day, I've taken to combing through everyone's sheet to make sure that the scoring tab is picking up everything. Hopefully the screw-ups are behind me and it's smooth sailing from here on out.

 

[Ilov80s]

OK, back on track ()

24

Blood Meridian; or, The Evening Redness in the West

Cormac McCarthy

kupcho1, ilov80s, chaos34, Oliver Humanzee, shuke

24. Blood Meridian; or, The Evening Redness in the West by Cormac McCarthy
Oliver Humanzee: #4
shuke: #9
ilov80s: #14
chaos34: #21
kupcho1: #30
Total points: 399
Average: 79.8

Now that we're down to 1 book per day, I've taken to combing through everyone's sheet to make sure that the scoring tab is picking up everything. Hopefully the screw-ups are behind me and it's smooth sailing from here on out.

I’ll let OH or Shuke speak to Blood Meridian. It’s so well written and so nasty. I loved reading it. Blows The Road away imo.

When the lambs is lost in the mountain, he said. They is cry. Sometime come the mother. Sometime the wolf.

 

[KarmaPolice]

OK, back on track ()

24

Blood Meridian; or, The Evening Redness in the West

Cormac McCarthy

kupcho1, ilov80s, chaos34, Oliver Humanzee, shuke

24. Blood Meridian; or, The Evening Redness in the West by Cormac McCarthy
Oliver Humanzee: #4
shuke: #9
ilov80s: #14
chaos34: #21
kupcho1: #30
Total points: 399
Average: 79.8

Now that we're down to 1 book per day, I've taken to combing through everyone's sheet to make sure that the scoring tab is picking up everything. Hopefully the screw-ups are behind me and it's smooth sailing from here on out.

I’ll let OH or Shuke speak to Blood Meridian. It’s so well written and so nasty. I loved reading it. Blows The Road away imo.

When the lambs is lost in the mountain, he said. They is cry. Sometime come the mother. Sometime the wolf.

This is what i have struggled with. I had the highest praise for The Road, but can't get very far into Blood Meridian despite trying 4 or 5 times now.

 

[Don Quixote]

That was one of those that just decided wasn’t for me. It looks like I gave it a 1 out of 5 on Goodreads. Interested in the write-up though, as I seem to mostly align with the rankers of it on other books.

 

[krista4]

Don Quixote - Miguel Cervantes

Well, I’ve been trying to think of a good write-up for Don Quixote, but not really sure what to say. I’m not going to tell you anything that you don’t already know. It has a pretty good claim to be the most famous novel in all of world literature, as the most translated book and one of the best selling novels of all-time. It’s amazing to me how timeless its humor is and how it holds up after 400+ years and still inspires plays, movies, songs, etc.

Kupcho mentioned a minor upset with it not being my #1. I wish I had better story for why I picked my username… I had a two digit user name on the Old Yeller board. Back in 2003 or whenever, the board converted and everyone needed to re-register; when I went to register, my two digit user name was deemed too short. There was a mad dash to get a lower member number, and I needed to think fast on a new name to secure as low of a member number as possible. My tattered copy of Don Quixote was next to me on my desk, and there you go. (Oh, and member number 696.)

You're all going to see a bunch of "likes" from me this evening, as I'm finally going back to catch up on posts since May 1 or so. I figure I'll check the books I had ranked and see if I have anything to add.

As for OH, he "owes" on 8-9 books still, but he's working the next two evenings and then I go out of town again, so no time for bookcook. He has Friday and Saturday off and could write them up himself, but as we know that's unlikely to happen.

If you guys don't mind reading stuff days/weeks after the books were posted, I'll still try to get them all done later.

 

[BLOCKED_PUNT]

Here we have Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck, our first book receiving 8 nominations. Although no one had it ranked higher than 15th, volume matters.

oh look. A book I've read

 

[krista4]

40	The Handmaid’s Tale	Margaret Atwood	kupcho1, Mrs.Marco, krista4, shuke
The Godfather	Mario Puzo	timschochet, turnjose7, Frostillicus, Barry2, KeithR

40. The Handmaid’s Tale by Margaret Atwood
krista4: #6
Mrs.Marco: #18
shuke: #18
kupcho1: #38
Total points: 276
Average: 69.0

We visit another of my alleged top 10. Is The Handmaid's Tale really my #6 book? I don't know. But I had it very high because it had a profound effect on teenage me when I read it. An awakening, if you will. It's all fairly personal in a way I don't feel like sharing at the moment. One thing I can say is that I often have trouble finding books where I think the plot matches the prose, or vice versa. I think Atwood is brilliant at both, as well as at making her points. When I think of this book, it still gives me a sense of foreboding and menace.

I saw some discussion earlier about the TV show being preferred by some, but I've never seen it, and it's a little too scary for me to watch at this point. Also I have not read the sequel.

 

[krista4]

35	The Bonfire of the Vanities	Tom Wolfe	kupcho1, Dr. Octopus, chaos34, krista4
34	Siddhartha	Hermann Hesse	guru_007, Psychopav, Long Ball Larry

35. The Bonfire of the Vanities by Tom Wolfe
krista4: #4
Dr. Octopus: #13
kupcho1: #22
chaos34: #35
Total points: 296
Average: 74.0

In this case, I think Bonfire is placed about right for me at #4. That might seem crazy-high, but it's another time and place ranking for me. When I read it, I was deep into hanging out with a bunch of Masters of the Universe, and the novel rang both so ridiculously true and so ridiculously hilarious to me that it's always stuck with me as one of my favorite reading experiences. Too bad about the movie.

 

[krista4]

My #22 book, The Bonfire of the Vanities by Tom Wolfe, is the quintessential 80s novel set in NYC. It explores class, racism, politics and greed.

...

I think the horrific movie adaptation - arguably the worst adaptation of all time - has retroactively soured people on the novel, which is a damn shame. I won't say too much about it, but the casting is absolutely terrible.

I posted before seeing your write-up. I think this is an excellent point.

 

[krista4]

The Remains of the Day by Kazuo Ishiguro, my #46 ranked book is actually the second from Ishiguro on my list and the lower ranked of the two. It's still a hell of a book. It is told in narrative form by Stevens, a butler for Lord Darlington. The flashbacks are to the 1920s and 1930s and Darlington is revealed to be a Nazi sympathizer. Stevens devotes his entire life "in service" and although it becomes clear he is in love with the housekeeper. Given his complete dedication to his craft, he didn't act on it.

ilov80s is right in that there is a lot of repressed emotion in the book, but that's pretty consistent with the English, right? Throw in stuffy butler and it increases accordingly.

The Remains of the Day won the Booker Prize (now Man Booker) in 1989 and Ishiguro won the Nobel prize for literature in 2017.
If you haven't read Ishiguro, this should be the second book of his you read.

I had three Ishiguro books in my list. This one was my highest, then Never Let Me Go (which already showed up here, and I think is the one kupcho had higher), and then another. I’m on the introverted side, and the character of Stevens resonated with me. But I love Ishiguro’s writing, and don’t think you can go wrong with any.

As an aside, I do think the movie adaptation with Anthony Hopkins as Stevens and Emma Thompson as the housekeeper was well-done and a pretty good adaptation, which is a rare thing for me to say about books that I greatly enjoy.

Not much to add, though this was my #8 book and perhaps could have been slightly higher. It is also a rare instance where I hold the movie in nearly as high regard as the book.

 

[krista4]

Infinite Jest by David Foster Wallace

Fabulous write-up. I expect OH will have more to say on this one, too. As for me? OK, I did start it again, and I failed to finish it again. I'd say at this point I've read it well more than two full times, except just the first 1/3 or 1/2 or whatever I get to before becoming distracted with life and then when coming back to it deciding I should start at the beginning again. So I put it smack dab in the middle of my rankings, though if I ever finish it it will likely be in the top 10. Sue me.

I also had DFW's collection of short stories, "Brief Interviews with Hideous Men," on my list. I didn't expect anyone else to select it, but I love his short stories and especially his non-fiction, and since the latter wasn't eligible and I haven't finished Infinite Jest, I wanted to acknowledge one of his works that I actually read all of.

 

[krista4]

Even moreso than the FFA's knowledge of the classics, I'm impressed by OH's to form complex thoughts while cooking. I'm notorious in my house for entering "cooking mode" where my bidirectional communications skills are impaired. I've been known to have thoughts wander away mid-sentence while I'm distracted by something I'm preparing. But if you asked Mrs. Eephus, she'd probably say there's more impact on my listening abilities. They're not the greatest to start with but stuff just bounces off my ears if I'm really concentrating on what I'm doing in the kitchen.

I hadn't thought about this, but it is kind of weird and/or impressive. There's no way I'd be able to do it, but it seems to work well for him, better than if he were to sit down and try to write his thoughts.

 

[krista4]

I’ll let OH or Shuke speak to Blood Meridian. It’s so well written and so nasty. I loved reading it. Blows The Road away imo.

When the lambs is lost in the mountain, he said. They is cry. Sometime come the mother. Sometime the wolf.

I was certain that this was one of OH's top three, along with Pale Fire and one that hasn't come up yet, but he snuck Willa Cather in at #3 instead. I'm sure he'll want to talk about this one.

 

[TheBaylorKid]

OK, back on track ()

24

Blood Meridian; or, The Evening Redness in the West

Cormac McCarthy

kupcho1, ilov80s, chaos34, Oliver Humanzee, shuke

24. Blood Meridian; or, The Evening Redness in the West by Cormac McCarthy
Oliver Humanzee: #4
shuke: #9
ilov80s: #14
chaos34: #21
kupcho1: #30
Total points: 399
Average: 79.8

Now that we're down to 1 book per day, I've taken to combing through everyone's sheet to make sure that the scoring tab is picking up everything. Hopefully the screw-ups are behind me and it's smooth sailing from here on out.

I did long to wander the rural mountain deserts of Mexico after reading. Think of all the big spaces I’ll never aimlessly wander like I can in Texas. I don’t speak Spanish and know just enough people that have been stopped at “checkpoints” on rural highways there that I wouldn’t even attempt it. But I’m a sci fi and fantasy guy so I liked the Road more.

 

[dickey moe]

OK, back on track ()

24

Blood Meridian; or, The Evening Redness in the West

Cormac McCarthy

kupcho1, ilov80s, chaos34, Oliver Humanzee, shuke

24. Blood Meridian; or, The Evening Redness in the West by Cormac McCarthy
Oliver Humanzee: #4
shuke: #9
ilov80s: #14
chaos34: #21
kupcho1: #30
Total points: 399
Average: 79.8

Now that we're down to 1 book per day, I've taken to combing through everyone's sheet to make sure that the scoring tab is picking up everything. Hopefully the screw-ups are behind me and it's smooth sailing from here on out.

I've been picking away at Blood Meridian the past few weeks. McCarthy's prose and descriptive brutality are great, but it's all just too observational to me. No character development or protagonist to root for. Maybe that's the point? Interesting to read but overrated, IMO.

 

[shuke]

No way I'll do Blood Meridian justice.

A chilling look at the evil of man told with incredible pose. This book is more high-falutin than my usual fare, but it was absolutely gripping. It is one of my favorite endings to a book, because of its ambiguity, and what one may take away based on their interpretation.

With all that said, I'll admit that I didn't fully understand the very short epilogue. I'll wait for OH to explain it.

 

[scoobus]

So many books I've not only failed to read, but haven't even heard of.

Enjoying the write-ups though.

 

[Chaos34]

The most powerful countries in the world are building a Frankenstein well beyond the genius young Shelley's incredible imagination. It's an arms race with far worse implications than collapsing employment. I'm preparing for doom. We are a mirror image of Dr. Frankenstein's relentless pursuit of scientific glory.

Not fiction and not exactly a recommendation, this is more of a plea. Pre-order Yudkowski and Soares' new book to be released mid-September. Pre-orders are important. They push it to the NYT best sellers list. Don't let the sensational title deter you. Yudkowski knows what he's talking about and has been at the forefront of AI safety since the very early 00s. Soares has a gift for making him concise and understandable. If you think I'm nuts or just overreacting by preparing for doom, this will clearly explain why. It will also make you smarter about the future. It could be the most important book ever written. If the title seems insane, scroll to the bottom of the page for an explanation and maybe check the authors' wiki pages.

 

[kupcho1]

Moving on ...

23

A Storm of Swords (Vol. 3 of A Song of Ice and Fire)

George R.R. Martin

scoobus, Frostillicus, Barry2, shuke

23. A Storm of Swords (Vol. 3 of A Song of Ice and Fire) by Cormac McCarthy
Barry2: #4
Frostillicus: #6
scoobus: #8(t)
shuke: #17
Total points: 402
Average: 100.6

This is a book that, had we allowed for a longer list, definitely would have made mine. But, as it was, I opted to not to include subsequent books in a series when I wanted to acknowledge the whole. I've read A Storm of Swords many, many times. Back when Martin was releasing new books in the series, I would read the previous books in order to be as up to speed as possible for the next one. After the release of the 5th (last?) volume I've read the series again at least twice. It's that good and, for the record, there's so much foreshadowed in the story that you can pick up on a second (or third, fourth ...) time through the series.

For anyone interested, I came across a YouTube channel that digs absurdly deep into the books. Here's a playlist (8 videos so far) that explores the Faceless Men. There were more than a few things I hadn't picked up on or considered.

 

[Frostillicus]

A Storm of Swords

I had this as my #6 and top-ranked of the two GRR Martin books I ranked. The first book blew me away with a "what kind of series is this anyway?" kind of way. This one was "WHAT THE HOLY ****ING **** KIND OF ****ING SERIES IS THIS??"

Both of those meant in a completely complimentary way of course. The first book let you know that nobody was safe. The third hammered that pont home. Then subsequent books kind of ignored it. We will have to see what lies ahead in the new book which should be out soon.

 

[Barry2]

I only chose one title per series, for A Song of Ice and Fire it had to be A Storm of Swords. The phrase couldn't put the book down gets used a lot, this is one of the times it rang true for me. Things that stood out, the prologue where a ranger blows the horn three times, Chapter 1 where we get the first Jaime pov, and the many jaw droppers that we should be immune to by now. The epilogue doesn't slow down either, we meet Lady Stoneheart.

 

[Dr_Zaius]

I only chose one title per series, for A Song of Ice and Fire it had to be A Storm of Swords. The phrase couldn't put the book down gets used a lot, this is one of the times it rang true for me. Things that standout, the prologue where a ranger blows the horn three times, Chapter 1 where we get the first Jaime pov, and the many jaw droppers that we should be immune to by now. The epilogue doesn't slow down either, we meet Lady Stoneheart.

You make a good case for Book 3. I listed Book 1 personally, mainly because I was having trouble remembering what happened in each book. I probably should have googled a bit to refresh my memory, but I remember 1-3 in general being tighter than books 4-5 where the narrative sprawl starts to get away from Martin a bit.

A shame that the chances of readers getting proper closure on a great book series seems just about zero.

 

[shuke]

I remember 1-3 in general being tighter than books 4-5 where the narrative sprawl starts to get away from Martin a bit.

I included the first 3 in my rankings because they're all incredibly good. 4 and 5 didn't sniff my list.

 

[KarmaPolice]

A Storm of Swords is one that would have been in my top 5 as well. I know it's a trope, but it is the only example of reading something and having the impulse to through the book down and not want to keep reading realizing what was happening. I actually might have thrown the book on the couch and taken a break. Even more impact than the show, because I had spent much more time with these characters reading the books. This is also the series that opened the door for several other books and series that I probably wouldn't have bothered with before. I am very fantasy hesitant, and usually have no patience for it. I always appreciated the worldbuilding and imagination but I just check out when there elf languages and dragons and sorcery. Like the show it was more grounded in politics and family battles. The first three in the series were such a great read it built my tolerance and endurance to try other books I wouldn't have before like Dune, In the Name of the Wind, Wheel of Time, or The Stormlight Archives. I've read through those first 3 books a couple times, but never had the desire to revisit the other two.

I doubt one is showing up in the top 20, but based on a book and a half of Stormlight Archives, that is what I would recommend to anybody who hasn't tried that and like A Song of Ice and Fire books. I would put the first book of the series up against the best of any of the series I listed above. I had stayed away based on the size of the books, but I ripped through that first book in no time.

 

[kupcho1]

Tomorrow, one I bet you all thought I'd have as my #1 book.

 

[Keith R]

Tomorrow, one I bet you all thought I'd have as my #1 book.

Spoiler

?

 

[Psychopav]

Tomorrow, one I bet you all thought I'd have as my #1 book.

Do tell, my little droogie.

 

[kupcho1]

Now then, Dim. What does that great big horsey gape of a grin portend?

21

A Clockwork Orange

Anthony Burgess

kupcho1, guru_007, Dr. Octopus, KeithR, Psychopav, rockaction, shuke

21. A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess
shuke: #2
kupcho1: #8
Psychopav: #26
rockaction: #26
KeithR: #39
Dr. Octopus: #45
guru_007: #52
Total points: 407
Average: 58.1

I'm not even going to wait the short amount of time required between posts to start talking about this one.

If you've only seen the movie and haven't read the book, you don't really know the story, or at least not how it actually ends. It's so dramatically different that Burgess actually repudiated his own book years afterward. Or I should say the American version of the novel (more later).

We all suffer from the popular desire to make the known notorious. The book I am best known for, or only known for, is a novel I am prepared to repudiate: written a quarter of a century ago, a jeu d'esprit knocked off for money in three weeks, it became known as the raw material for a film which seemed to glorify sex and violence. The film made it easy for readers of the book to misunderstand what it was about, and the misunderstanding will pursue me until I die. I should not have written the book because of this danger of misinterpretation.

And what exactly is the misinterpretation? A Clockwork Orange is a dystopian novel about the nature of good and evil.
“Does God want goodness or the choice of goodness? Is a man who chooses to be bad perhaps in some way better than a man who has the good imposed upon him?”

This is a very structured novel consisting of 21 chapters (done intentionally by Burgess as a nod to 21 being the age of maturity) broken into thirds.
Part 1 describes the world of Alex, our protagonist in the story, wherein he gets himself into a little trouble having caused much mayhem in the process
Part 2 delves into the Ludovico technique, designed to "rehabilitate" Alex
Part 3 shows us the result of that rehabilitation

The movie adaptation misses the entire point of the novel by omitting the last chapter. Burgess agreed to allow the last chapter of the book to be omitted from the American version as he was strapped for cash. Per his site:

Myth: Anthony Burgess hated Stanley Kubrick’s 1971 film of A Clockwork Orange.

Fact: Anthony Burgess thought the film was a masterpiece and that Kubrick was a great filmmaker. But Burgess resented having to defend the film on television and in print as it was not his own work.

I won't spoil the book for you as I recommend reading it, but here's how the movie ended, followed by what Kubrick left out

Spoiler: Movie ending

The film's ending leaves Alex, the protagonist, unreformed, having undergone a treatment to suppress his violent tendencies, but ultimately returning to his old ways

Spoiler: Chapter 21

In the final chapter, Alex—now 18 years old and working for the nation's musical recording archives—finds himself halfheartedly preparing for another night of crime with a new gang (Len, Rick, and Bully). After a chance encounter with Pete, who has reformed and married, Alex finds himself taking less and less pleasure in acts of senseless violence. He begins contemplating giving up crime himself to become a productive member of society and start a family of his own while reflecting on the notion that his children could end up being just as destructive as he has been, if not more so.

Come and get one in the yarbles, if you have any yarbles, you eunuch jelly, thou.

 

[shuke]

A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess

I treat ACO the same way I do The Shining. I look at the movie and book as different things and consider them masterpieces in their own right.

I loved the world and language that Burgess creates. Others have said the language has made them shy away from reading this, but Burgess does an excellent job of providing enough context to figure it out.

Regarding the difference in the book...

Spoiler: Spoiler

It's been a while since I read it, but I didn't find the redemption arc to be completely convincing.