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The Lawyer Thread Where We Stop Ruining Other Threads (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Henry Ford
- Start date
There it is
Footballguy
Thanks guys I enjoyed this thread.
Zow
Footballguy
Our new associate has his second jury trial tomorrow. Charge is indecent exposure and the defense is that defendant's penis accidentally slipped out of his loose shorts for a moment while getting out of his car (and it was just an extraordinarily unfortunate circumstance that a mom and her child happened to be walking by only a few feet away). Was working with him last night as he prepped his case, and I had him convinced for about 30 minutes to make "oops, ####" his "theme".
I think I need to spend last time here and :e:lsewhere.
I think I need to spend last time here and :e:lsewhere.
Arizona Ron
Footballguy
After all these years, oops ####, still works 
krista4
Footballguy
Any of you purposefully let a bar membership lapse (presumably to get disbarred from that jurisdiction)? I'm not seeing a good reason to keep paying $1000 or so a year and doing a bunch of paperwork and CLE for TN bar membership when there is no reason I'd ever practice there again. On the other hand, getting suspended or whatever just "sounds" bad. Thoughts?
ETA: Going "inactive" doesn't save me much in money or time.
ETA: Going "inactive" doesn't save me much in money or time.
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-fish-
Footballguy
I surrendered my nevada bar card since I'll never use it again. I had to petition the Nevada Supreme Court to resign from the bar in good standing.
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Henry Ford
Footballguy
krista4
Footballguy
-fish-
Footballguy
It was a few years ago, but I remember that I had to fill out a couple forms and submit a notarized statement about something...maybe that I wasn't holding any client funds in trust.
krista4
Footballguy
Don Quixote
Footballguy
It may depend on state rules, but if you get suspended/disbarred, don't you have to notify other jurisdictions in which you are barred? That seems like a bigger PITA to deal with.
krista4
Footballguy
I don't know. I just paid the $400 "professional privilege tax" that I owed as of 6/1 (which was now $430 due to late fees), which buys me time to 9/1 when my annual bar fees are due there. Figure before 9/1 I'll get it figured out but I'd better pay that glorious privilege fee anyway.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Took me about 20 minutes. You have to be in good standing dues wise and fill out an affidavit that you likely can copy directly from their website. Basically you will be attesting to no outstanding cases pending by you or against you. Easy.
krista4
Footballguy
This would have zero effect on me or my practice.
Regardless, inactive seems to be the safest course, though it doesn't really save me much in $$$ of PITA avoidance. I'm afraid that in the very unlikely event I should move again (
), I'd have to go through a big explanation when applying for yet another bar. Not worth that.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
In response to discovery, I sent opposing counsel a DVD with every document placed in the proper response folder. That meant that there were multiple copies of almost all documents (most of them were responsive to multiple requests.) It took me quite some time, but I was thorough and provided all responsive documents, I believe.
I just got an angry phone call from opposing counsel because that attorney got the DVD in, didn't know what to do with it, so sent the DVD off to be printed - which meant they printed multiple copies of all documents, adding up to hundreds and hundreds of extra pages. Counsel is now livid that I would not simply provide a single copy of each document on the DVD.
I'm thoroughly confused.
I just got an angry phone call from opposing counsel because that attorney got the DVD in, didn't know what to do with it, so sent the DVD off to be printed - which meant they printed multiple copies of all documents, adding up to hundreds and hundreds of extra pages. Counsel is now livid that I would not simply provide a single copy of each document on the DVD.
I'm thoroughly confused.
-fish-
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
This is the same opposing counsel who included as two of the discovery requests "produce every document that supports your allegations" and "produce every document or tangible thing that does not support your allegations." It could have been much worse.
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Then I wouldn't worry about it. But, yeah. I'm with fish. I wouldn't like to wade through the same documents over and over again just because they are responsive to multiple requests.
-fish-
Footballguy
then he deserved it.
I'd never segregate documents by response, or produce duplicate documents. one set of bates stamped docs, and if I really wanted to be helpful I'd identify the number range of which documents are responsive to which request. more likely I wouldn't do that unless a court made me. I'd be pretty pissed if opposing counsel gave me a bunch of copies of the same document in discovery.
Zow
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Todd Andrews
Footballguy
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
I'm the worst at discovery. Rogs are always the same.... objection but see attached. Notice to produce docs ? Sure. Each and every doc is responsive to each question so they aren't separated.
I've gotten angry phone calls too. Don't care. I'm not doing your job for you.
I've gotten angry phone calls too. Don't care. I'm not doing your job for you.
If you produce it, I have to review it. It can be the most clearly marked grouping of documents ever created. Doesn't mean I don't have to go through it all.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Request 1 - Please produce the contract between the parties.
Request 2 - Please produce all documents which support your allegation that Defendant breached the contract between the parties.
Request 3 - Please produce all documents you intend to offer into evidence at the trial of this matter.
Yes, the contract between the parties would be responsive to all of these requests. BUT YOU DON'T NEED TO SEND ME THREE COPIES OF THE ####### CONTRACT!
Henry Ford
Footballguy
"To the extent not previously produced" is your friend. Also, objection, premature. Discovery in this case is in its infancy, and plaintiff has not yet determined what exhibits he will introduce at the trial of this matter. Defendant will be provided with an Exhibit list in accordance with the deadlines provided by the Court.
Request 2 - Please produce all documents which support your allegation that Defendant breached the contract between the parties.
Request 3 - Please produce all documents you intend to offer into evidence at the trial of this matter.
Yes, the contract between the parties would be responsive to all of these requests. BUT YOU DON'T NEED TO SEND ME THREE COPIES OF THE ####### CONTRACT!
Ray Karpis
Footballguy
How have I missed this thread?
I sent a FOIA request for a client but didn't state in the letter it was being filed "on behalf of" said client. The government entity lawyers up and claims certain documents we requested are exempt. Fine. Rather than just say that in a letter or redact the exempt documents, they file a dec action in circuit court....naming me as the defendant.
I sent a FOIA request for a client but didn't state in the letter it was being filed "on behalf of" said client. The government entity lawyers up and claims certain documents we requested are exempt. Fine. Rather than just say that in a letter or redact the exempt documents, they file a dec action in circuit court....naming me as the defendant.
Otis
Footballguy
Career advice question:
Is it stupid to consider moving firms merely for a change?
I'm in an excellent spot in my current large firm, and have been told I'm the next leader of the practice group. I've been told by the managing partner I'm one of his "stars." I feel a ton of job security, and get to do interesting work. I've come to a point where I can control my hours to a great extent, see my family, and make steady, solid pay. The firm is well positioned for the future. When I lay it out that way, it just feels like too much good to ever walk away from.
The reasons I even wonder about it sometimes: I've been in the same place my whole career. Going on 15yrs now. It just feels like a long time to be in the same place and not know what else is out there. It's like living in a nice town your whole life, and since it's good enough, never going out and exploring the huge world out there. Maybe I feel a little stagnant, have a little touch of wanderlust.
My other gripe is that I'm in NYC but in a satellite office. I am at the mercy of a home office in a culturally different part of the country, and while the brand a modestly strong in my practice area, we are always branded bigger on other areas.
It would be nice to be in a NY based firm, which is strong in my area and branded better in my space. It would and be nice to have management that is better in tune with the NY market in terms of cost of living, lateral recruiting, etc. It would be nice for the guy who set my pay lived in the same area and paid the same for housing.
That's not to say I feel underpaid. I feel very fortunate to make what I do. That said, I suspect given how hot the lateral market is for people in my pracrice area and with my background, I wonder if I could find a firm a bit further up the amlaw rankings and make more money. Though that is not the primary motivator here by any stretch.
The last factor here is I don't have a huge book to call my own. I've worked with a great roster of clients and have contacts that could potentially yield big things, but I would go in and openly say I can't promise any of that. I can tell them my firm believes in me a few I believe in my ability to reel in some big fish, but I can't promise it.
I believe given my background that there is a market for this, and that I could potentially join a higher ranked firm as a partner and make more money. It could be an interesting and exciting change. But I would have little job security then. I'd have to prove myself to a whole new batch of senior partners who may or may not take to me. Who knows how long they'd give me before they expect a big stream of business generation. And the guys who are counting on me at my current firm would be devastated, one in particular.
I'm pretty risk averse with this stuff usually. Am I totally insane for considering it? I can't come up with a really good reason when balanced against all of the positives of my current situation, and yet part of me just wants a change.
Sorry for the long post. Thanks GBs.
Is it stupid to consider moving firms merely for a change?
I'm in an excellent spot in my current large firm, and have been told I'm the next leader of the practice group. I've been told by the managing partner I'm one of his "stars." I feel a ton of job security, and get to do interesting work. I've come to a point where I can control my hours to a great extent, see my family, and make steady, solid pay. The firm is well positioned for the future. When I lay it out that way, it just feels like too much good to ever walk away from.
The reasons I even wonder about it sometimes: I've been in the same place my whole career. Going on 15yrs now. It just feels like a long time to be in the same place and not know what else is out there. It's like living in a nice town your whole life, and since it's good enough, never going out and exploring the huge world out there. Maybe I feel a little stagnant, have a little touch of wanderlust.
My other gripe is that I'm in NYC but in a satellite office. I am at the mercy of a home office in a culturally different part of the country, and while the brand a modestly strong in my practice area, we are always branded bigger on other areas.
It would be nice to be in a NY based firm, which is strong in my area and branded better in my space. It would and be nice to have management that is better in tune with the NY market in terms of cost of living, lateral recruiting, etc. It would be nice for the guy who set my pay lived in the same area and paid the same for housing.
That's not to say I feel underpaid. I feel very fortunate to make what I do. That said, I suspect given how hot the lateral market is for people in my pracrice area and with my background, I wonder if I could find a firm a bit further up the amlaw rankings and make more money. Though that is not the primary motivator here by any stretch.
The last factor here is I don't have a huge book to call my own. I've worked with a great roster of clients and have contacts that could potentially yield big things, but I would go in and openly say I can't promise any of that. I can tell them my firm believes in me a few I believe in my ability to reel in some big fish, but I can't promise it.
I believe given my background that there is a market for this, and that I could potentially join a higher ranked firm as a partner and make more money. It could be an interesting and exciting change. But I would have little job security then. I'd have to prove myself to a whole new batch of senior partners who may or may not take to me. Who knows how long they'd give me before they expect a big stream of business generation. And the guys who are counting on me at my current firm would be devastated, one in particular.
I'm pretty risk averse with this stuff usually. Am I totally insane for considering it? I can't come up with a really good reason when balanced against all of the positives of my current situation, and yet part of me just wants a change.
Sorry for the long post. Thanks GBs.
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NCCommish
Footballguy
Well I'm not a lawyer. But the list of positives there sure seems like it outweighs any perceived gains. Especially if as you say it isn't about money. Seems like to me you pretty much got it made and a lot of people would probably trade what they have for that kind of security and long term stability.
Otis
Footballguy
Thorn
Footballguy
How much business do you think you could bring with you? Is the lateral move all that easy when you don't have your own book?
Otis
Footballguy
It wouldn't be easy without a substantial book. But I'm a junior enough partner, and have a sufficiently in-demand background, that I think I could make an "upwards" move based on that alone. That's my sense anyway. I'd need to investigate more.
For a purely lateral move it may not make much sense given the benefits of my current situation.
Thorn
Footballguy
You know the market better than anyone else, but it seems to me that, generally, a firm only wants a lateral hire if (1) the hire brings his own book so that the partners' pie gets bigger or (2) the firm has so much work in that area that it needs another able body. Obviously if you fit (1) you can made your own deal, but if it's (2) I think the hiring firm would have most of the leverage. Bottom line, this does not sound like a good move for Otis unless he can bring a book with him, IMO.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I don't think it's "stupid" but it's ill-advised. And it's the thing you do before you buy the big house.
Aerial Assault
Footballguy
And, in fact, what you're actually required to do under the Fed. R. Civ. P. and in many states . . . but virtually no one does it. (I do.)
Henry, I get what you were doing and I think it's a cool idea, but it's unusual enough that I probably would have included that info in a cover letter so that OC could have had a paralegal sort by Bates number and then print a full set if that's what he wanted. He was sort of dumb to just go print it all without examining it, though.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
The attorney just tells me every time we talk on the phone "I'm in a paperless office." So I figured "awesome, this will make it easy."
Henry Ford
Footballguy
In fact, I actually discussed moving into the firm the attorney works for several years ago, and their big thing is "we're a paperless office."
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Also, am currently freaking out about a deposition this morning that's unbelievably important. Haven't had the jitters like this in a very, very long while.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Aerial Assault
Footballguy
, not at you at all, but that he and his "paperless office" freaked because they . . . printed some paper. I GUESS YOU WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO DO THAT, GUYS. By the way, anytime anyone boasts to me that they're in a "paperless office," I downgrade my estimation of their intelligence and their office immediately.Good luck at the dep. Sure you'll kill it.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Zow
Footballguy
In the middle of a child crimsex trial right now. Three alleged victims, including one being the client/defendant's bio daughter. Discovered two days ago, while speaking to a minor but hostile witness that the foster father the daughter was placed with after removal was just arrested for molesting his own bio daughter of the same age. Also came out yesterday during the state's case that another one of the victim's stepfather, who she lived work during the time of the allegation, is a sex offender and had failed to register (god bless AZ victims' rights statute which pretty much precludes interviewing any member of the victim's family) or something.
Exhibit 718 of why this job isn't boring.
Exhibit 718 of why this job isn't boring.
krista4
Footballguy
Don't do it, Oat.
The only bad thing I see about your situation is the satellite office thing, but you've been dealing with that for 15 years. Having been at a Skadden satellite but Kirkland main office, I thought there were some benefits from being remote to the politicking and other things in the main office (not that there still wasn't plenty of that). Overall, though, that factor is just not enough to overcome all the positives of your current situation. In particular because you don't have a big book of business, you would have to really prove yourself all over again in a new job, at a time in your career where that will be increasingly difficult to do without the book of business. You are just having wanderlust because you have the suburban house, kids, etc. and you're trying to find something to keep things fresh and interesting. Get a puppy instead.
The only bad thing I see about your situation is the satellite office thing, but you've been dealing with that for 15 years. Having been at a Skadden satellite but Kirkland main office, I thought there were some benefits from being remote to the politicking and other things in the main office (not that there still wasn't plenty of that). Overall, though, that factor is just not enough to overcome all the positives of your current situation. In particular because you don't have a big book of business, you would have to really prove yourself all over again in a new job, at a time in your career where that will be increasingly difficult to do without the book of business. You are just having wanderlust because you have the suburban house, kids, etc. and you're trying to find something to keep things fresh and interesting. Get a puppy instead.
Not a partner myself, but I just switched firms with a practice group and had a number of conversations about this recently. This post seemed to capture the moving partners' sentiments and experiences. Maybe it's worth it to dip your toe in the water and see if moving in the direction you want is even possible? If you can do so quietly, and you find some opportunities, you can then compare the specifics of the new position to your current one, or, if nothing else, have a little bit of additional ammunition in terms of negotiating your compensation at your current firm.Thorn said:
