Zow
Footballguy
That'll help, too. The no priors part is pretty big (at least it would be where I work).
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The Lawyer Thread Where We Stop Ruining Other Threads (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Henry Ford
- Start date
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
If this month/year doesn't end with me filling the water cooler with bourbon it will be a miracle.
Zow
Footballguy
Thorn
Footballguy
I do hate TRID to be sure, but I think it will end up being a good thing for me personally. It is going to force out small shops and law firms that did residential closings on the side. Good chance to pick up market share.
Todd Andrews
Footballguy
Todd are you only doing soft IP or the range? I want to take the patent bar in the next few weeks and am looking for some study tips.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Just got my rear handed to me. Really thought I could win the argument but just way too novel. Fun argument though.
Zow
Footballguy
What was your argument?My "craziest" argument was over the issue of whether my 26 year old client needed to register for sleeping with a 15 year old -- as part of the plea registration was completely in judge's discretion. With client's permission I argued that he didn't have a predilection to underage girls, it's just that the facts that he's so ugly (he had meth and acne scars), lived at home with no job, and was an addict simply meant he couldn't get girls his own age.
I lost.
Todd Andrews
Footballguy
Just copyright and trademark, with a good mix of media, publishing, defamation, etc.. About half transactional, half litigation. More of an art and entertainment than technology focus.
Good luck with the patent bar.
Todd Andrews
Footballguy
They can get very annoying. Music is the most difficult area of copyright--very very complex.
Joe T's question, for example, gives rise to multiple copyright issues: is he trying to register his copyright in music composition, lyrics, both, a sound recording?.... were all of the proper formalities observed, are there joint authorship issues, etc......
Question, can a company claim ''misconduct" for actions performed off the clock? Illinois is an "at will" employer and I can be fired for just about anything. Specially regarding unemployment benefits, me cursing at a member of employee banking in regards to personal bank account with the company in which I worked can't be misconduct, right?
"Misconduct" is defined in Section 602 of the IUIA as the 1) deliberate and willful violation of 2) a reasonable rule or policy of the employing unit, 3) governing the individual's behavior in performance of his work, 4) provided such violation has harmed the employing unit or other employees or has been repeated by the individual despite a warning or other explicit instruction from the employing unit.
"Misconduct" is defined in Section 602 of the IUIA as the 1) deliberate and willful violation of 2) a reasonable rule or policy of the employing unit, 3) governing the individual's behavior in performance of his work, 4) provided such violation has harmed the employing unit or other employees or has been repeated by the individual despite a warning or other explicit instruction from the employing unit.
It wasn't my boss, it was some other bank employee I've never seen or met via telephone. At this point, I feel I was acting as a customer. Furthermore, I never wanted the employee bank account and was pressured into it.
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I would argue that my personal finance argument with said employee regarding my account does not govern my behavior in the performance of my work and, thus, could not form the basis of a finding of misconduct.
Especially under special consideration that the conversation occurred in the comfort of my home after company hours.
eta:
I also believe I can argue that there was no "willful and deliberate" violation of a rule / policy. Being upset with the customer service I was receiving at the bank does not qualify as willful and deliberate.
I became irate when my company refused to overturn fees at the same frequency as customers within the branch in which I worked.
eta2:
I also think that misconduct is inappropriate because there was no "harm" done to the employer. My argument with a 5th 3rd employee resulted in my harm to the company. In fact, I was still allowed to come in and work a half day. If there was harm done, what harm was that?
Especially under special consideration that the conversation occurred in the comfort of my home after company hours.
eta:
I also believe I can argue that there was no "willful and deliberate" violation of a rule / policy. Being upset with the customer service I was receiving at the bank does not qualify as willful and deliberate.
I became irate when my company refused to overturn fees at the same frequency as customers within the branch in which I worked.
eta2:
I also think that misconduct is inappropriate because there was no "harm" done to the employer. My argument with a 5th 3rd employee resulted in my harm to the company. In fact, I was still allowed to come in and work a half day. If there was harm done, what harm was that?
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Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
So, end of year, holiday season, new TRID regulations, closings, mortgages, realtors, agents, title clerks, buyers, sellers and bankers.
This is an awesome combination. Astonishingly remarkable in every way.
This is an awesome combination. Astonishingly remarkable in every way.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I'd tend to agree and would say that is a a case of misplaced zealous advocacy. On the other hand though, since the affluenza defense worked, he at least had a shot.
Otis
Footballguy
Otis
Footballguy
As 2015 closes, allow me to share a brief story of how I won a defense verdict in a jury trial for a large multinational client whose products you all probably have in your homes; I was co-lead counsel with another partner, and we split the trial work down the middle. It was the most water I've ever carried in a trial. The client at first was skeptical about a fellow of my vintage standing up in court on their behalf; after my first cross in which I dismantled a professional expert with style and grace, they apologized and begged me to do more. As the jury deliberated, we walked over to a local bar and proceeded to drink far more than we thought we would. It was getting late in the evening and we assumed the jury would retire and resume deliberations in the morning. We get a call from the court; a verdict is in. My senior partner drank too much and had already stumbled back to the hotel. I proceeded to the courthouse with the rest of our legal team to take the verdict; I had probably drank more than I should have before stepping foot in a federal courthouse.
It was a win across the board, and the jury was dismissed after the judge graciously thanked them, and that was it. Thankfully given my current state I didn't have to utter more than a few words.
I've been a member of teams that have won jury trials before; in fact, knock wood, I have't lost one yet. And in some of those I even had some key directs and crosses. But I never had a case that was my baby start to finish and in which I did so much of the trial work actually go to a verdict. And I surely never took a verdict inebriated. Scariest/best/scariest courtroom moment in my career.
Happy New Year to all my FBG lawyer brethren. I don't know why we do what we do, but may we keep doing it in good health and prosperity.
It was a win across the board, and the jury was dismissed after the judge graciously thanked them, and that was it. Thankfully given my current state I didn't have to utter more than a few words.
I've been a member of teams that have won jury trials before; in fact, knock wood, I have't lost one yet. And in some of those I even had some key directs and crosses. But I never had a case that was my baby start to finish and in which I did so much of the trial work actually go to a verdict. And I surely never took a verdict inebriated. Scariest/best/scariest courtroom moment in my career.
Happy New Year to all my FBG lawyer brethren. I don't know why we do what we do, but may we keep doing it in good health and prosperity.
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Don't officially 'practice' yet, since graduate in May. I do the range though, and have done everything from with patent prosecution, filings of copyrights/trademarks and assisting with infringement litigation. I've been working at the biggest IP boutique in upstate NY since 1L, and planned on sitting for the patent bar this winter (may have to push that back).
My background is EE/Physics so I get put on alot of those types of technologies, but worked in house at a medical device company for a bit as well, so I'm not completely pigeonholed,
What about you? You're in the mid-west right? How's the job market around there?
ETA: Congrats on the win! In-court litigation is probably the thing i'd like to do the least of in the future.
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Otis
Footballguy
Nice. I bet I know the firm; I've regularly spoken at the RIPLA Fall seminar, and I've met folks from your firm (assuming it's the one I'm thinking of). You've got the perfect background and you're stepping out into a high-demand area with the most desirable tech background and a great future ahead. Good luck.
Don't officially 'practice' yet, since graduate in May. I do the range though, and have done everything from with patent prosecution, filings of copyrights/trademarks and assisting with infringinement litigation. I've been working at the biggest IP boutique in upstate NY since 1L, and planned on sitting for the patent bar this winter (may have to push that back).
My background is EE/Physics so I get put on alot of those types of technologies, but worked in house at a medical device company for a bit as well, so I'm not completely pigeonholed,
What about you? You're in the mid-west right? How's the job market around there?
I'm a partner in a 700 lawyer GP firm, in the NY office. Been with the firm about 15 years now, since I graduated law school. I'm a computer eng. background (worked as a software engineer before law school), and while I still do a mix of litigation and prosecution, over time it has shifted so that no it's more like 90% or more litigation, with the rest being managing prosecution, opinion, diligence, M&A, and "other" work.
Job market here in NYC is strong for folks like us. Plenty of demand for IP folks with EE/CS backgrounds.
Ah thanks! And, yep you probably have the right place in mind; and I have to say I love working in the field so far. I came into school thinking about going the environmental route. Put the brakes on that when I realized I was patent bar eligible, and I can have a career specializing in learning new technologies.Nice. I bet I know the firm; I've regularly spoken at the RIPLA Fall seminar, and I've met folks from your firm (assuming it's the one I'm thinking of). You've got the perfect background and you're stepping out into a high-demand area with the most desirable tech background and a great future ahead. Good luck.
Don't officially 'practice' yet, since graduate in May. I do the range though, and have done everything from with patent prosecution, filings of copyrights/trademarks and assisting with infringinement litigation. I've been working at the biggest IP boutique in upstate NY since 1L, and planned on sitting for the patent bar this winter (may have to push that back).
My background is EE/Physics so I get put on alot of those types of technologies, but worked in house at a medical device company for a bit as well, so I'm not completely pigeonholed,
What about you? You're in the mid-west right? How's the job market around there?
I'm a partner in a 700 lawyer GP firm, in the NY office. Been with the firm about 15 years now, since I graduated law school. I'm a computer eng. background (worked as a software engineer before law school), and while I still do a mix of litigation and prosecution, over time it has shifted so that no it's more like 90% or more litigation, with the rest being managing prosecution, opinion, diligence, M&A, and "other" work.
Job market here in NYC is strong for folks like us. Plenty of demand for IP folks with EE/CS backgrounds.
That's how it seems to work over here. In general, the attorney's all seem to begin in the meat and bones of the patent prosecution aspect, and slowly integrate into more litigation and active prosecution when they become senior. I'm happy to leave that to those guys and gals since, from what i've seen so far, the uspto is alot less cranky than the federal courts.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Nice. I've got a buddy who's got an ethical rule named after him. Nowhere near as cool.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
-fish-
Footballguy
Just got the findings of fact and conclusions of law from the trial I did in mid-December. This was the crazy people with no damages, whom the mediator told had no chance, and their lawyer who didn't depose my expert because "he only incurs necessary expenses."
They got crushed. All that's left now is how much the court is going to award my client for attorney's fees and costs.
They got crushed. All that's left now is how much the court is going to award my client for attorney's fees and costs.
Ray Karpis
Footballguy
Belated congrats! That's awesome. Had a very similar first experience where I kinda inherited the case as the trial progressed. Gave the closing and felt like a king when the jury came back in my favor.As 2015 closes, allow me to share a brief story of how I won a defense verdict in a jury trial for a large multinational client whose products you all probably have in your homes; I was co-lead counsel with another partner, and we split the trial work down the middle. It was the most water I've ever carried in a trial. The client at first was skeptical about a fellow of my vintage standing up in court on their behalf; after my first cross in which I dismantled a professional expert with style and grace, they apologized and begged me to do more. As the jury deliberated, we walked over to a local bar and proceeded to drink far more than we thought we would. It was getting late in the evening and we assumed the jury would retire and resume deliberations in the morning. We get a call from the court; a verdict is in. My senior partner drank too much and had already stumbled back to the hotel. I proceeded to the courthouse with the rest of our legal team to take the verdict; I had probably drank more than I should have before stepping foot in a federal courthouse.
It was a win across the board, and the jury was dismissed after the judge graciously thanked them, and that was it. Thankfully given my current state I didn't have to utter more than a few words.
I've been a member of teams that have won jury trials before; in fact, knock wood, I have't lost one yet. And in some of those I even had some key directs and crosses. But I never had a case that was my baby start to finish and in which I did so much of the trial work actually go to a verdict. And I surely never took a verdict inebriated. Scariest/best/scariest courtroom moment in my career.
Happy New Year to all my FBG lawyer brethren. I don't know why we do what we do, but may we keep doing it in good health and prosperity.
Then we get a fee award of $100K, both parties filed bankruptcy and we never got paid.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Domestic violence hearings really suck.
Buckfast 1
Footballguy
Congrats, Otis!As 2015 closes, allow me to share a brief story of how I won a defense verdict in a jury trial for a large multinational client whose products you all probably have in your homes; I was co-lead counsel with another partner, and we split the trial work down the middle. It was the most water I've ever carried in a trial. The client at first was skeptical about a fellow of my vintage standing up in court on their behalf; after my first cross in which I dismantled a professional expert with style and grace, they apologized and begged me to do more. As the jury deliberated, we walked over to a local bar and proceeded to drink far more than we thought we would. It was getting late in the evening and we assumed the jury would retire and resume deliberations in the morning. We get a call from the court; a verdict is in. My senior partner drank too much and had already stumbled back to the hotel. I proceeded to the courthouse with the rest of our legal team to take the verdict; I had probably drank more than I should have before stepping foot in a federal courthouse.
It was a win across the board, and the jury was dismissed after the judge graciously thanked them, and that was it. Thankfully given my current state I didn't have to utter more than a few words.
I've been a member of teams that have won jury trials before; in fact, knock wood, I have't lost one yet. And in some of those I even had some key directs and crosses. But I never had a case that was my baby start to finish and in which I did so much of the trial work actually go to a verdict. And I surely never took a verdict inebriated. Scariest/best/scariest courtroom moment in my career.
Happy New Year to all my FBG lawyer brethren. I don't know why we do what we do, but may we keep doing it in good health and prosperity.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Hi Lawyer guys...
Please see the following from an Alteration Agreement for an NYC Co-op:
The Shareholder shall use the Shareholders best efforts to ensure that the Work is completed expeditiously, but in any event all Work shall be completed within an aggregate of 180 days with credit for days that the building has designated as holidays and when workmen are not allowed in the Building; from the date of commencement of the Work, or such other period as the Corporation, in writing, designates (the “Completion Date”).
Later in the AA, this:
Work Days: Monday through Friday excluding Weekends and Holidays (see “No Apartment Work” Holiday Schedule)
Work Crews Entry: Building Opens for crew entry at 9:00 a.m.
Work Crews Exit: Crews must be out of the building by 4:30 p.m.
Project Timeline: 180 Days — start to finish
How do you read this- 180 Calendar days, or 180 Work days?
Please see the following from an Alteration Agreement for an NYC Co-op:
The Shareholder shall use the Shareholders best efforts to ensure that the Work is completed expeditiously, but in any event all Work shall be completed within an aggregate of 180 days with credit for days that the building has designated as holidays and when workmen are not allowed in the Building; from the date of commencement of the Work, or such other period as the Corporation, in writing, designates (the “Completion Date”).
Later in the AA, this:
Work Days: Monday through Friday excluding Weekends and Holidays (see “No Apartment Work” Holiday Schedule)
Work Crews Entry: Building Opens for crew entry at 9:00 a.m.
Work Crews Exit: Crews must be out of the building by 4:30 p.m.
Project Timeline: 180 Days — start to finish
How do you read this- 180 Calendar days, or 180 Work days?
Instinctive
Footballguy
Why is that? I thought it means that the designated holidays and days they can't get in still count, implying that it is 180 calendar days.
Asking, not quarreling. Still learning all this crap.
Instinctive
Footballguy
This is really the lawyer answer. Certainly it's the exam answer (with support for both arguments).
El Floppo
Footballguy
Didn't know this. Thanks for the answer.Lol at myself for not remembering asking this a year ago. Good memory...or at least, not ####ty memory like mine, WB.
The project is wrapping up and building management just let us know the 180 days ended around thanksgiving. $300/day penalty over the 180 -calendar day (they at least made that crystal clear in the AA). According to our calcs for work days, we were right on target. Client is massive money and not pleased, but for now at least on our side about this.
Doesn't help that our contractor had the property manager canned from his previous gig. Dis gonna get ugly.
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Thorn
Footballguy
right. I think Floppo needs to find the Judge Thread Where We Stop Ruining Other Threads.(FWIW, "credit for" the days they can't get in means those days don't count IMO; if it was truly 180 calendar days the other language is superfluous)
Zow
Footballguy
In a rare roll reversal I'm actually going to be testifying in court today (former client has filed a motion claiming co-counsel and I forced him to take a plea). What's interesting is that I fully expect to be asked questions by the prosecutor that elicit answers where I indicate that part of my advice to my former client was that the prosecutor on his case is, essentially, an unreasonable tyrant who can't be trusted to hold plea offers open indefinitely and who negotiates like a four year old.
Could be fun.
Could be fun.
That's how I read it... the clause should have stipulated to whom the credit would go to...
El Floppo
Footballguy
considering this is turning into $2100 penalty per week, the client is talking about getting lawyers involved. considering the 25ish k total that will likely occur at worst is a drop in the bucket of overall budget and a speck of dust to this guys' wallet, it's more about what's right than money.
(FWIW, "credit for" the days they can't get in means those days don't count IMO; if it was truly 180 calendar days the other language is superfluous)
I'll report back to let you lawyer people know how it wraps up. I'm sure you can't wait.
El Floppo
Footballguy
I"m obviously not a lawyer, but here's how I read this... if they use the statement "AND when workmen aren't allowed in the building", and then explicitly state workmen aren't allowed in the building on weekends and holidays- it should be 180 work days NOT calendar. But I'm just a dumb architect. I'm not good at redefining the word "AND", or "IS" the way you people can.
The Shareholder shall use the Shareholders best efforts to ensure that the Work is completed expeditiously, but in any event all Work shall be completed within an aggregate of 180 days with credit for days that the building has designated as holidays and when workmen are not allowed in the Building; from the date of commencement of the Work, or such other period as the Corporation, in writing, designates (the “Completion Date”).
Later in the AA, this:
Work Days: Monday through Friday excluding Weekends and Holidays (see “No Apartment Work” Holiday Schedule)
Work Crews Entry: Building Opens for crew entry at 9:00 a.m.
Work Crews Exit: Crews must be out of the building by 4:30 p.m.
Project Timeline: 180 Days — start to finish
Sweet J
Footballguy
Hold on.
"holiday" does not equal "only weekdays and not weekends." So weekend is still on the table.
"when workmen are not allowed in the building," by my reading of what he listed, does not equal "only weekdays and not weekends." (nowhere in what was listed does it say that workmen are not allowed in the building on weekends. Only that workmen may not enter before 9:00 (no weekend/weekday specified) and must leave by 4:30 (no weekend/weekday specified).
By my reading of JUST what is listed, how do you get the exclusion of weekends?
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