The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn (6 Viewers)

[TobiasFunke]

All these stories are really accelerating and converging at the same time...pretty crazy...

After this CA aspect is really coming into focus I thought of the perfect analogy....I'm a big puzzle guy (used to love doing them before kids...I know nerd alert) but this whole story reminds me of doing a really big puzzle...you start with a several thousand pieces out of the box, then spend a ton of time flipping and sorting the pieces into groups....then you start the pain staking process of putting the groupings together and then assembling the groupings to make a picture and as you put more and more of the puzzle together it really starts to accelerate at the end.

After all these guys at different levels have flipped (Flynn, Gates, Papo, Nader, others??) you hear more and more what went on and can start to connect the dots.  Now you have Trump in full melt down mode, wanting to turnover his legal term now because he's cornered and his existing strategy didn't work.  This is going to make one hell of 3 season Netflix documentary someday.....

With the exception of that weird EDVA indictment thing that flared up last year and left a couple Twitter types with egg on their faces, has any angle thrown out there by the even the fringes of the "grand conspiracy" types been invalidated yet?

I've always been a skeptic, but this sure seems to be coming together and moving in the exact direction contemplated by the Mensch's and Schindler's of the world.

 

[Brony]

I watched the CA thing on Channel 4 and it shows pretty straightforward what they did, but also seems like they would be good at covering their tracks and staying clean.  If Mercer dude was the one funding this, what kinds of evidence is the FBI looking for to connect Trump Org to the CA misinformation campaign?  Is data traffic between Alfa and Trump enough?  I'm naive on these operations. 

 

[-fish-]

I watched the CA thing on Channel 4 and it shows pretty straightforward what they did, but also seems like they would be good at covering their tracks and staying clean.  If Mercer dude was the one funding this, what kinds of evidence is the FBI looking for to connect Trump Org to the CA misinformation campaign?  Is data traffic between Alfa and Trump enough?  I'm naive on these operations. 

They seem pretty mercenary.   Seems like if they could get immunity from whatever the US or UK might be willing to throw at them that they may be willing to cooperate.

 

[Banger]

I'm really glad that the House shut down their investigation and a week later all this CA stuff is breaking...just perfect.

 

[-fish-]

I'm really glad that the House shut down their investigation and a week later all this CA stuff is breaking...just perfect.

nothing to see here.   

 

[TobiasFunke]

They seem pretty mercenary.   Seems like if they could get immunity from whatever the US or UK might be willing to throw at them that they may be willing to cooperate.

I haven't watched the Channel 4 stuff, but it's always been my understanding that CA was a right wing organization from the get-go. Do they even have left of center clients?

 

[McJose]

This whole thing is just a big nothingburger with a side of hysteria.

 

[Jackstraw]

Cambridge Analytica’s chief data scientist Dr Tayler said: “As part of it, sometimes you have to separate it from the political campaign itself. So in America you know there  are independent expenditure groups running behind the campaign… Super pacs. Political action committees.

The Super PAC's that would NEVER........EVER......coordinate with campaigns. Those Super PAC's? I'm looking at you Justice Roberts. 

 

[TobiasFunke]

According to an interview I read, the 27yo primary data architect is a gay vegan. And think I saw mentioned elsewhere that most of their employees were left-leaning who eventually left being sick of what they were doing.

So organization <> employees, but still.

Their Wikipedia page makes it look like they cater exclusively to conservatives.  No idea about SCL Group, from which Nix hasn't resigned btw, which as this reporter points out means that he really hasn't left at all.

 

[Brony]

You're giving too much credit to people who admitted their crimes in the open.  And remember, forensics of communications themselves are not the only tool.  People on the inside, including a whistle blower, are talking.  Those people will be investigated and pitted against each other, with the last to the table getting the most prison time.  The evidence may be an oral history, but it's still evidence. 

So Mueller will try to find someone that says "Trump OK'd using data from stolen voter databases obtained by Russia to send targeted negative Hillary ads"?

 

[lakerstan]

I see this as slowly getting people up to speed on what actually transpired.

There are still people thinking this is just about Russia creating a few ads. 

People know Facebook - it reaches them personally.  If they understand companies are using their Facebook information for nefarious purposes, that is something tangible and certainly helps them understand what happened.  It's like when people hear their credit card has been compromised - it hits home.

 

[Brony]

I don't think it needs to lead directly to Trump.  Kushner and Bannon will do just fine. The stolen data itself, if known to the campaign, was a major FEC violation as it was worth hundreds of millions of dollars.  Plus, CA CEO says Super PACs participated, and this would be another set of illegal activities to run down. 

This whole story does seem to have legitimate legs to it.  Trump obviously is in tune with the power of social media. 

 

[-fish-]

Will the fact that not only was our election rigged, but our elections are always going to be susceptible to similar abuses, be the impetus for actual campaign finance reform and other campaign reforms?*

*of course not.      

 

[TobiasFunke]

I look at it differently - seems like more avenues are opening up.  Obviously I have no idea what Mueller knows or does not know - but its hard to fathom a case that is this complex coming together in less than a year since Mueller took over the investigation.  

So much information to digest, let alone build a case from it.

I'g guess the Cambridge Analytica stuff, while not completely new to Mueller, will certainly invite a closer look.  The Stormy NDA campaign/Finance issue - does it come under Mueller, or would that be a separate investigative team?

And, unraveling the financial transactions of Trump Org, looking for things they were trying to hide - I don't see that happening quickly.

Having said that, I would not be shocked to see more indictments handed down in the next month or so, just to sho he is making progress.

On the outside chance that Trump fires Rosenstein to find someone to fire Mueller, I imagine Mueller might have an on-going document summarizing the findings that would be delivered to Congress, somewhat ensuring the investigation continues.

In the face of the recent CA allegations - its hard to see how congress could allow the independent investigation to stop - even if they had to create their own Independent investigation.

Great post (other than the last sentence; I'm pretty sure both of us can see how Congress could allow the independent investigation to stop).  The scope of this is mind-boggling.  It's gonna take years and years to run all of this down. 

 

[Ned]

This is my fortnightly reminder to everyone that Louise Mensch is brilliant and well connected.  Which obviously doesn't eliminate the fact that she's completely insane, but she's also not completely dismissable.

So our real life Carrie Mathison.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Mensch lost me when she went off her meds about two issues:  One, that Trump slipped removable media with state secrets to Russians in the Oval Office.  Other was that the Sargent at Arms for the Supreme Court had spirited to the White House in the dead of night to inform Trump that he was indicted and to set the stage for his public arrest.  Let's not sugar coat some of her out-there stuff last year that was way outside the lines. 

Yeah, she lost me a long time ago. I make it a point to ignore all of them. But things do seem to be moving away from the "useful idiots manipulated by Putin" angle and towards the "massive criminal conspiracy" angle these days. Maybe the pendulum will swing back, I dunno. But these things have almost never gotten less crazy or smaller in scope as we learn more about them.

 

[Gr00vus]

Here's the thing.  I have meetings in that building regularly.  It's not a tapestry of 3rd party companies.  No one would get in there if they didn't have permission and a relationship with a Newscorp/Fox News entity. 

Give me your mailing address so I can send you a sarcasm translator.

 

[The Future Champs]

Not that any crimes should go unpunished... but how is anyone surprised that your personal information, at FB no less, gets compromised? And further... how is anyone duped by targeted advertising, particularly in the political arena?

There’s a lot of dumb people in the world?

 

[-fish-]

Not that any crimes should go unpunished... but how is anyone surprised that your personal information, at FB no less, gets compromised? And further... how is anyone duped by targeted advertising, particularly in the political arena?

some people are highly susceptible to believing false information.

Fake news can distort people’s beliefs even after being debunked. For example, repeated over and over, a story such as the one about the Pope endorsing Trump can create a glow around a political candidate that persists long after the story is exposed as fake. A study recently published in the journal Intelligence suggests that some people may have an especially difficult time rejecting misinformation. Asked to rate a fictitious person on a range of character traits, people who scored low on a test of cognitive ability continued to be influenced by damaging information about the person even after they were explicitly told the information was false. The study is significant because it identifies what may be a major risk factor for vulnerability to fake news.

 

[lakerstan]

https://www.channel4.com/news/exposed-undercover-secrets-of-donald-trump-data-firm-cambridge-analytica

It would strike me that if you weren't doing anything illegal, you wouldn't need to have your emails self-destruct after 2 hours.  Fascinating...

 

[Henry Ford]

Will the fact that not only was our election rigged, but our elections are always going to be susceptible to similar abuses, be the impetus for actual campaign finance reform and other campaign reforms?*

*of course not.      

I was going to say you're naive, but then I put on my reading glasses.

 

[Henry Ford]

It would strike me that if you weren't doing anything illegal, you wouldn't need to have your emails self-destruct after 2 hours.  Fascinating...

It's for drunk emailing your ex.

 

[-fish-]

It would strike me that if you weren't doing anything illegal, you wouldn't need to have your emails self-destruct after 2 hours.  Fascinating...

Isn't that just snapchat without **** pics?

 

[Henry Ford]

Isn't that just snapchat without **** pics?

I don't think we can conclude yet that there were no **** pics.

 

[Slapdash]

Mensch lost me when she went off her meds about two issues:  One, that Trump slipped removable media with state secrets to Russians in the Oval Office.  Other was that the Sargent at Arms for the Supreme Court had spirited to the White House in the dead of night to inform Trump that he was indicted and to set the stage for his public arrest.  Let's not sugar coat some of her out-there stuff last year that was way outside the lines. 

The whole sex trafficking thing her and Taylor were onto was pretty crazy

 

[JuniorNB]

It wasn’t just targeted advertisements.  It was fabricated “news” targeted based on who would share it and how widely it would spread.  That’s what changed minds.  And remember those fake stories were laundered by “legitimate” media like Fox News, making them seem true.

I find arguments like this, or that people should know better than to supersize soft drinks to be weak, because you can build analytics models that can predict their impact.  It’s science and it works.  So if it was illegal, it doesn’t matter if people should have been more hardened against it.  

This.  I remember stories coming out about Hillary running some kind of underground child sex ring. And Trump supporters were actually sharing these stories on Facebook. They believed the stories because they wanted to believe them. And companies like CA knew the exact kind of suckers that would fall for it. This was praying on the vulnerable.  The 'shoot someone on 5th Avenue' crowd. They used data to target the mentally weak and it won the election for Trump.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

This is my fortnightly reminder to everyone that Louise Mensch is brilliant and well connected.  Which obviously doesn't eliminate the fact that she's completely insane, but she's also not completely dismissable.

IMO she's seems connected to Intelligence people -- who've fed her at least some of what actually happened.  But she seems much less knowledgeable about the actual investigation or legal doings that result from the stuff she's been fed.

 

[Biff84]

The whole sex trafficking thing her and Taylor were onto was pretty crazy

Yeah if any part of that ends up being true, it would end any question of how connected they are. But I doubt it happens.

 

[Henry Ford]

Retired Lt. Colonel Ralph Peters just quit Fox News over the Russia investigation and related Fox News propaganda.  

Peters' email to colleagues:

On March 1st, I informed Fox that I would not renew my contract. The purpose of this message to all of you is twofold:

First, I must thank each of you for the cooperation and support you've shown me over the years. Those working off-camera, the bookers and producers, don't often get the recognition you deserve, but I want you to know that I have always appreciated the challenges you face and the skill with which you master them.

Second, I feel compelled to explain why I have to leave. Four decades ago, I took an oath as a newly commissioned officer. I swore to "support and defend the Constitution," and that oath did not expire when I took off my uniform. Today, I feel that Fox News is assaulting our constitutional order and the rule of law, while fostering corrosive and unjustified paranoia among viewers. Over my decade with Fox, I long was proud of the association. Now I am ashamed.

In my view, Fox has degenerated from providing a legitimate and much-needed outlet for conservative voices to a mere propaganda machine for a destructive and ethically ruinous administration. When prime-time hosts--who have never served our country in any capacity--dismiss facts and empirical reality to launch profoundly dishonest assaults on the FBI, the Justice Department, the courts, the intelligence community (in which I served) and, not least, a model public servant and genuine war hero such as Robert Mueller--all the while scaremongering with lurid warnings of "deep-state" machinations-- I cannot be part of the same organization, even at a remove. To me, Fox News is now wittingly harming our system of government for profit.

As a Russia analyst for many years, it also has appalled me that hosts who made their reputations as super-patriots and who, justifiably, savaged President Obama for his duplicitous folly with Putin, now advance Putin's agenda by making light of Russian penetration of our elections and the Trump campaign. Despite increasingly pathetic denials, it turns out that the "nothing-burger" has been covered with Russian dressing all along. And by the way: As an intelligence professional, I can tell you that the Steele dossier rings true--that's how the Russians do things.. The result is that we have an American president who is terrified of his counterpart in Moscow.

I do not apply the above criticisms in full to Fox Business, where numerous hosts retain a respect for facts and maintain a measure of integrity (nor is every host at Fox News a propaganda mouthpiece--some have shown courage). I have enjoyed and valued my relationship with Fox Business, and I will miss a number of hosts and staff members. You're the grown-ups.

Also, I deeply respect the hard-news reporters at Fox, who continue to do their best as talented professionals in a poisoned environment. These are some of the best men and women in the business..

So, to all of you: Thanks, and, as our president's favorite world leader would say, "Das vidanya."

 

[-fish-]

One of the more absurd aspects of this whole thing is if Trump admitted during the State of the Union address that he was a crook, that he colluded with Russia, he's laundered money and was peed on by Russian hookers, his followers would still claim it was a deep state conspiracy and Fox News would blame Hillary.

 

[-fish-]

Peters called for an assault weapons ban three weeks ago.   Clearly, he's not to be trusted anyway (and he doesn't know what an assault weapon is).

 

[Sinn Fein]

Retired Lt. Colonel Ralph Peters just quit Fox News over the Russia investigation and related Fox News propaganda.  

Peters' email to colleagues:

 The result is that we have an American president who is terrified of his counterpart in Moscow.

 

[Gr00vus]

Just some more liberal hysteria.

I don't know if better late than never applies in this case. Where was this guy 2 years ago?

 

[JIslander]

Retired Lt. Colonel Ralph Peters just quit Fox News over the Russia investigation and related Fox News propaganda.  

Peters' email to colleagues:

another wowsa

 

[lakerstan]

I'm not a huge Hillary fan, but in the video, I think she did a great job asking the big question:

How did the Russians know who to target with their online propaganda?

A.  We know the Russians attempted to sew discord during the election - we have indictments, and Facebook admitted as such - though Facebook's position appears to be that the Russians primary intent was to drive conflict between Americans - and not necessarily install Trump into office.

B.  We know Facebook and CA had the analytical data and demographic information necessary for such a campaign.

So now there has to be evidence that connects point A to point B - and CA seems to be very good at covering their tracks.

At this point, I'm not sure how Wikileaks would fit into all this.  We know Alexander Nix reached out to Julian Assange for Hillary's emails, but Assange said he declined.

It would seem that, given the global scale of CA, that they wouldn't need Wikileaks to act as an intermediary to Russia.

However, we know Assange was anti-Hillary.  Whether Nix and Assange acted together or separately, they both wanted the same thing.

 

[cosjobs]

All these stories are really accelerating and converging at the same time...pretty crazy...

After this CA aspect is really coming into focus I thought of the perfect analogy....I'm a big puzzle guy (used to love doing them before kids...I know nerd alert) but this whole story reminds me of doing a really big puzzle...you start with a several thousand pieces out of the box, then spend a ton of time flipping and sorting the pieces into groups....then you start the pain staking process of putting the groupings together and then assembling the groupings to make a picture and as you put more and more of the puzzle together it really starts to accelerate at the end.

 ...

tweakers gonna tweak

 

[cosjobs]

cripes trump being mad at carson price pruitt and the rest of them for buying fancy furniture or fancy private flights reminds me so much of the christmas party scene in goodfellas where jimmy gets mad a jonny roastbeef for buying his wife a new car and frank for buying his wife a new fur coat its like hey when your doing unethical stuff you gotta keep it quiet take that to the bank brohans 

I hope we find Bestsy DeVos hanging out in a Freezer truck

 

[Henry Ford]

The whole sex trafficking thing her and Taylor were onto was pretty crazy

Honestly, given that:

1. Trump Models was engaged in activity that on its face probably fits the definition of human trafficking (though not sex trafficking); and

2. Trump has been repeatedly stated to have thrown parties using Trump Models' models (who were as young as 15) at which parties the models slept with his buddies

it's really not a huge stretch.

 

[Joe Summer]

Trump Models' model models model model.

Just felt like typing that.

 

[Dedfin]

cripes trump being mad at carson price pruitt and the rest of them for buying fancy furniture or fancy private flights reminds me so much of the christmas party scene in goodfellas where jimmy gets mad a jonny roastbeef for buying his wife a new car and frank for buying his wife a new fur coat its like hey when your doing unethical stuff you gotta keep it quiet take that to the bank brohans 

Yeah, i want to know who is gonna be found in their car?  Who will be found in the trash dumpster?

 

[Ilov80s]

Trump Models' model models model model.

Just felt like typing that.

We are close to something:

Trump’s most modest models model Trump’s models modestly 

 

[Ilov80s]

Trump’s Moldovan models model Trump’s most modest Moldovan models moderately. 

 

[Brony]

I'm not a huge Hillary fan, but in the video, I think she did a great job asking the big question:

How did the Russians know who to target with their online propaganda?

A.  We know the Russians attempted to sew discord during the election - we have indictments, and Facebook admitted as such - though Facebook's position appears to be that the Russians primary intent was to drive conflict between Americans - and not necessarily install Trump into office.

B.  We know Facebook and CA had the analytical data and demographic information necessary for such a campaign.

So now there has to be evidence that connects point A to point B - and CA seems to be very good at covering their tracks.

At this point, I'm not sure how Wikileaks would fit into all this.  We know Alexander Nix reached out to Julian Assange for Hillary's emails, but Assange said he declined.

It would seem that, given the global scale of CA, that they wouldn't need Wikileaks to act as an intermediary to Russia.

However, we know Assange was anti-Hillary.  Whether Nix and Assange acted together or separately, they both wanted the same thing.

I was just looking back at the Steele Dossier and there isn't any mention of social media campaign or voter data FWIW.   The rest of the dossier is still an interesting read now re-visiting it many moons later. 

 

[Amused to Death]

Retired Lt. Colonel Ralph Peters just quit Fox News over the Russia investigation and related Fox News propaganda.  

Peters' email to colleagues:

Time for the people who want to keep a shred of dignity to jump ship.

 

[cosjobs]

Here's the thing.  I have meetings in that building regularly.  It's not a tapestry of 3rd party companies.  No one would get in there if they didn't have permission and a relationship with a Newscorp/Fox News entity. 

why do you have a relationship and regularly meet with Newscorp/Fox News, narc?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Trump’s Moldovan models model Trump’s most modest Moldovan models moderately. 

You're needed in the alliteration thread.

 

[Sheriff Bart]

Retired Lt. Colonel Ralph Peters just quit Fox News over the Russia investigation and related Fox News propaganda.  

Peters' email to colleagues:

Sounds we we're going to need some bigger US flag lapel pins. 

 

[Ilov80s]

You're needed in the alliteration thread.

Maybe Mr. Ister missed her mister? Mr. Sister’s sister missed her! 

 

[SWC]

brohans the worst part is that this fired tim up and we are gonna get about nother 873 paragraphs of mr ishida take that to the bank bromigos 

 

[Captain Cranks]

Because they're constantly telling you exactly what you want to hear and believe. That's a tough thing to reject. This isn't a purely technological assault, its very much psychological.

My father, who is an intelligent person, told me that he just can't believe that Facebook propaganda would have that much of an impact on people's minds.  He said it's a really sad thing for humanity if we're that easily manipulated.  He then went on to defend Trump and said the investigation is biased and unwarranted.  In other words, a complete regurgitation of what he's heard Hannity proclaim.  My point being, people are completely oblivious to the propaganda, but it's working.