The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn (2 Viewers)

[[scooter]]

There were numerous posters that claimed that I and other Trump supporters were traitors to the country and unamerican for supporting our traitorous President during this. I know who they are. Will they step up an apologize? Many others let the accusation fly but that was to be expected here.

You support a guy who backed Vladimir Putin (over U.S. intelligence officials) when he said, "I don't see any reason why it would be Russia", who backed Kim Jong Un (over U.S. intelligence officials) when Kim denied knowledge of a U.S. resident being tortured to death, and who backed Mohammad bin Salman (over U.S. intelligence officials) when MBS denied knowledge of a U.S. resident being tortured to death.

If any liberal president had sided with our adversaries in those 3 situations, they would absolutely be labeled "traitor" and "Un-American".

If you want to celebrate the fact that your guy hasn't been charged with a crime, go right ahead. But don't try to pretend that it means that every other un-American thing he's said and done didn't happen.

 

[The General]

My line was collusion.

I said at the time that I was very concerned with the Don Jr. meeting and it swayed my opinion. That is the first time that I believed there was a possibility that the Administration played a part in the Russian involvement. Something I could not accept and would totally turn me against Trump. The first time I accepted that this could be real. This hasn't ended but I am extremely happy at the result today and it restores my faith in Trump. He may be a lot of things but he is no traitor to this country and for that I am thankful.

You can say that again.

 

[Sinn Fein]

I do suppose this will be when everyone comes in to apologize for bashing Mueller and the 14 angry democrats.

So, we have that to look forward to. 

 

[jamny]

You can say that again.

I'm happy that's all you can say.

 

[timschochet]

I think @timschochet should demand a whole lot of people in here give matuski an apology.  

Lol, not gonna happen. 

The reason I thought, and still think RW should apologize to squistion is because he was mean to him; RW didn’t just disagree, he mocked him and made fun of him. 

 

[The General]

I'm happy that's all you can say.

I'm glad we live in a place where elected officials are investigated. 

 

[Widbil83]

There were numerous posters that claimed that I and other Trump supporters were traitors to the country and unamerican for supporting our traitorous President during this. I know who they are. Will they step up an apologize? Many others let the accusation fly but that was to be expected here.

Hell no they won’t apologize.  I do find it funny these same people are wondering where all the Trump guys are coming from all of the sudden. They bullied Trump posters for 2 years, of course they weren’t  gonna sit around here and continue posting. 

 

[sublimeone]

Now - I will say this - the Dems should be demanding to see the goods here.  Anything less than the full report will leave some legitimate doubts.

I trust the report.  I trust that Mueller could not find enough evidence to support a crime of conspiracy.

I trust Barr when he says the DOJ would not prosecute the obstruction of justice charges.

Yet - there is still something not completely kosher about this letter.  Barr has done his best to color the narrative in ways I do not think he should have done.  For example - he couches the Russian interference section of the letter as done to "so social discord" - yet we know from the indictments that Muller also believes that Russian interference was also done specifically to help Trump win the election.

So, I do think its important that we see the underlying report - and conclusions - from Mueller, even if portions are redacted.  And, I think Congress should get a full, unredacted version.

It’s over bro

 

[Mr Anonymous]

Look, my new position... I’m white and I make a lot of money, so ostensibly I benefit from GOP bull####. But I resist it actively, advocate vocally against it, and vote against it, because it’s bull#### and show kindness and generosity in real life, so from here on out, it’s simply not my ####show. 

Interesting that you don't think white males also benefit from Dem bull####. They've got you worked over good.

 

[timschochet]

This thread moved fast so maybe I missed the apologies from those here that were convinced that Trump was a traitor to our country. 

I’m honestly not sure he isn’t. 

Not over this; I never really believed it. But his authoritarian tendencies, his backing away from NATO, his treatment of refugees at the border, and his reaction to the murder of Khashoggi really bother me. 

Traitor is probably too strong a word. But he is opposed to many if not most of the ideals that I regard as American, and is the only President in history who has been. Donald Trump, IMO, is anti-American. 

 

[Rove!]

Lol, good point. Guiliani must love the taste of his foot because its always in his mouth. That's like coming right out and saying we figured they'd get us on something.

Rudy just successfully got his client a total exoneration.  Maybe he was expecting to have to put up some kind of argument, but his opposition capitulated.  

 

[Juxtatarot]

 I don’t get this demanding apologies thing. People post predictions and have opinions all the time.  They are right some times and wrong other times. No need to apologize every time they’re wrong.

 

[The General]

Hell no they won’t apologize.  I do find it funny these same people are wondering where all the Trump guys are coming from all of the sudden. They bullied Trump posters for 2 years, of course they weren’t  gonna sit around here and continue posting. 

I'm not sure about bullying. I don't know what was going on in this thread. As for other threads, I love the Trump people and the interaction. They just didn't have anything to talk about I think because their guy is just a giant turd.

Not exactly shocking they would be out this weekend though.

 

[Slapdash]

As well as the justification for claiming that without interviewing him.

Shimon Prokupecz‏Verified account @ShimonPro 2h2 hours ago

NEW: Mueller deliberated at length with DOJ officials about issuing a subpoena for President Donald Trump to be interviewed, but ultimately the decision was made not to move forward with such a significant investigative step: @evanperez @PamelaBrownCNN @LauraAJarrett

 

[timschochet]

Anyhow I think this is good for the country- maybe we can start talking about issues again. Certainly that will be good for the Democrats. 

 

[timschochet]

So again I ask: if Trump Knew he was innocent why did he spend so much time attacking Mueller? The “13 angry Democrats”? What was that all about exactly? 

 

[The General]

 I don’t get this demanding apologies thing. People post predictions and have opinions all the time.  They are right some times and wrong other times. No need to apologize every time they’re wrong.

It's pretty funny but just let them have it This guy has been a huge embarrassment for 2 years so they have earned today.

Trumpites I salute you!

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Lol, not gonna happen. 

The reason I thought, and still think RW should apologize to squistion is because he was mean to him; RW didn’t just disagree, he mocked him and made fun of him. 

You’re a liar and still trolling that nonsense. I proved you wrong once so stop trolling.  Everyone knows you did what you did in the Kaep thread but not in other threads like this because you’re being a political troll.  Have a good one

 

[shader]

Well, in their defense, they are playing the hand their dealt.  Anything they can scratch out of this they should take.  This is the equivalent of losing by 40 and saying "well, at least we didn't break our record of losing by 50".

I take my apology back.  Upon actually reading this again, this was an absurd and naive thing to say.  This was a massive victory for Trump and a total failure for the dems.  Spinning it any other way (including the above) is unbelievably naive.

 

[jamny]

I’m honestly not sure he isn’t. 

Not over this; I never really believed it. But his authoritarian tendencies, his backing away from NATO, his treatment of refugees at the border, and his reaction to the murder of Khashoggi really bother me. 

Traitor is probably too strong a word. But he is opposed to many if not most of the ideals that I regard as American, and is the only President in history who has been. Donald Trump, IMO, is anti-American. 

Not a traitor to our country.

 

[avoiding injuries]

And I'll say it's absolutely disgusting that trump not being in the bag for Russia is some kind of major victory. What the hell has this country become?  We need top do way better at our bar setting

More or less disgusting that people are upset he wasn’t working with Russia? Serious question. 

 

[lazyike]

Trump and supporters are having their day but what the Mueller probe did find and reinforce was what intelligence already was saying was that Russia interfered in the 2016 election with a misinformation campaign to smear Hillary on social media. Why did Russia want Trump to win? Knowing there was this interference and finding that 14 Trump campaign officials lied about contact with the Russians, Donald Trump Jr. lied about the content of the meeting with the Russians, and President Trump lied about a Trump Hotel project in Moscow. It is would represent inconceivable incompetence that any oversight or investigating law enforcement agency would not look into what happened. I have yet to see anyone from the Trump administration, or Trump supporter explain why so many people lied about this.....always the deflection that there was no evidence of collusion. There still remains unanswered questions about the indicment of Stone and contact with Wikileaks and his impending trial in July.

 

[skol asylum]

So again I ask: if Trump Knew he was innocent why did he spend so much time attacking Mueller? The “13 angry Democrats”? What was that all about exactly? 

His whole shtick is victimhood. Feeds right into it.

 

[shader]

So again I ask: if Trump Knew he was innocent why did he spend so much time attacking Mueller? The “13 angry Democrats”? What was that all about exactly? 

Probably because he’s an emotional child and he was getting trashed in the media for two years for something that he actually didn’t do.

 

[Rove!]

I do suppose this will be when everyone comes in to apologize for bashing Mueller and the 14 angry democrats.

So, we have that to look forward to. 

Nope.

i will wait for the IG report here.   While they found no evidence of collusion, I do believe the OIG made some highly questionable decisions and persued “creative” legal theories to persue the man rather than the crime.  The weakening of attorney client privilege is a detriment to all Americans and their fundamental rights.  

How long ago did Mueller and team know that there was no there, there, but kept the case alive?  How many process crimes were persued where their case was weak, but defendants felt they had no choice but to plead or face financial destitution?

 

[skol asylum]

What if there was simply no collusion?

That would be nice.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

So again I ask: if Trump Knew he was innocent why did he spend so much time attacking Mueller? The “13 angry Democrats”? What was that all about exactly? 

That seems like a softball to me. If you were innocent and someone who hated you decided to investigate you, would you take it laying down and rely on the assumption that they wouldn't concoct or manufacture something to take you down? 

That's not me saying Trump is innocent, just that innocence alone doesn't keep someone from worrying about an investigation. Especially if it seems partisan.

 

[Sinn Fein]

The weakening of attorney client privilege is a detriment to all Americans and their fundamental rights.  

Wait, wat?

When did I miss this happening?  (I assume you mean OSC, and not OIG - but I don't recall this happening at all.)

 

[Rove!]

Wait, wat?

When did I miss this happening?  (I assume you mean OSC, and not OIG - but I don't recall this happening at all.)

OSC..

 

[NREC34]

I take my apology back.  Upon actually reading this again, this was an absurd and naive thing to say.  This was a massive victory for Trump and a total failure for the dems.  Spinning it any other way (including the above) is unbelievably naive.

Massive victory because Trump’s hand picked guy put out this statement?

If the report totally exonerates Trump why isn’t it out for everyone right now?

Something seems rotten in Denmark to me. 

 

[The General]

Now Trump can fully devote his attention to a fake border crisis, running up the debt, wrecking the environment, and tweeting about himself.

 

[sublimeone]

I'm not sure about bullying. I don't know what was going on in this thread. As for other threads, I love the Trump people and the interaction. They just didn't have anything to talk about I think because their guy is just a giant turd.

Not exactly shocking they would be out this weekend though.

You don’t find a lot of Trump defenders because most people don’t like him. The majority of people who voted for him did so while holding their noses and only continue to support him because the alternative is quite literally bat**** insanity.

 

[The Commish]

More or less disgusting that people are upset he wasn’t working with Russia? Serious question. 

The whole group deserves each other. They're all rowing the same boat as far as i can see. They just don't want to admit they have that in common

 

[Mr Anonymous]

To expound on @timschochet question about why Trump would fight the investigation so hard if he didn't collude. The most likely reason is because he knew the scope would go beyond Russian collusion as it did with Bill Clinton and Whitewater. And I'd be shocked if Trump didn't have something to hide somewhere in his closet.

 

[Bozeman Bruiser]

This just isn’t true at all.  I really don’t see what supposedly makes him the “dupe” here.  That he questioned our pristine intelligence agencies?  Bombing their Syrian ally twice, overthrowing its Venezuelan ally, badgering Germany to abandon a crucial Nordstream 2 pipeline with Russia, slapping sanctions on a Russian tycoon that have cost him billions of dollars and led to him bringing a lawsuit against the USG?  Threatening to tear up the INF treaty and gearing up for a nuclear arms race between the US/NATO and Russia?  That’s some “dupe” they have there.  

Ren will go down as the most logical and accurate poster in this forum.

 

[sublimeone]

Massive victory because Trump’s hand picked guy put out this statement?

If the report totally exonerates Trump why isn’t it out for everyone right now?

Something seems rotten in Denmark to me. 

Someone should write a children’s book with a similar arc as ‘the boy who cried wolf’ — just replace the lies with conspiracy theories. 

 

[tonydead]

It's pretty funny but just let them have it This guy has been a huge embarrassment for 2 years so they have earned today.

Trumpites I salute you!

Being a Trump supporter is not a prerequisite to seeing what a big nothingberger this was.  

 

[Sinn Fein]

One more thing to add - I said earlier that Trump should pardon Manafort and Flynn - and I think he should.

But, one of the curious claims still outstanding is the claim against Roger Stone.

Based on Barr's letter - DOJ should drop those charges tomorrow.  (I may not have all the facts on the claim - but my understanding is that it relates to communications Stone had with Wikileaks.) 

And, lets just assume for the sake of argument that DOJ can prove those conversations took place - given that there is no conspiracy here, its hard to say, much less prosecute, Stone for statements that, while false, were not material to the investigation.  In other words - even if Stone had told the truth here - there would have been no crime.  And, I get the importance of not lying to the FBI/congress/grand jury - but those lies should be related to material facts.  And if these facts did not give rise to a crime, I'd argue they are not material.

So - DOJ should drop the charges.  Absent that, Trump should also hand out a pardon to Stone this week.

 

[The Commish]

That bar was set by the constant drumming of bs from media about trump-Russia.  People like those that have been non-stop in this thread for the last 762 days are the only reason the bar is set where it’s set.

The setting of the bar was a choice mainly designed by the "sides" 

No one made anyone set their bar anywhere. That was a choice. Pretending it is anything else is a complete lack of.  self awareness

 

[Sinn Fein]

OSC..

Right - I assumed thats what you meant - what did I miss about the OSC "weakening attorney client privilege"?

 

[Don't Noonan]

I take my apology back.  Upon actually reading this again, this was an absurd and naive thing to say.  This was a massive victory for Trump and a total failure for the dems.  Spinning it any other way (including the above) is unbelievably naive.

Commish is just baiting you as he is clearly trolling.  Just like he claims to be a conservative but is always railing against conservative issues.  Just ignore him.

 

[jamny]

Collusion is the new Benghazi.

Let's move on now. So much needs to be done.

 

[timschochet]

Hmm Trump just said he wants an investigation into the “other side”- meaning the Obama Administration and Hillary. 

Probably this is just talk. But if the DOJ were to pursue any of this I think it would turn public opinion back against Trump- the perception would be that he is using the DOJ the way Nixon did to get revenge on his political enemies. 

 

[The General]

Being a Trump supporter is not a prerequisite to seeing what a big nothingberger this was.  

We did get to see the great people Trump surrounds himself with.

Read why this was started, the steps it took, and how the process works. All happened as it should. Would have been great if it wrapped up faster than 2 years I guess but takes a long time, especially when you keep getting side tracked with indicting people.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Being a Trump supporter is not a prerequisite to seeing what a big nothingberger this was.  

Here is the thing though - and I say this with all seriousness - this was never a nothingberger.

A big part of the investigation was to see what, if anything, Russia did to influence the election.  Another big part was to see, if Russia acted to influence the election, did anyone from Trump's campaign conspire with Russia to do that.

Mueller investigated, and charged, people from Russia with conspiring to interfere in the 2016 election.  We learned very specifically how they did that - in terms of Social Media disinformation, and with the hacking of the DNC and distribution through wikileaks.

No matter what else came of this investigation - those were critical findings towards understanding what happened, how, and to begin thinking about how we prevent such interference in the future.

So - this idea that because Mueller found no evidence to support conspiracy charges against Trump or his campaign, that this was all a waste of time - completely misses the point of the investigation.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Are you going to quit this forum when Mueller proves to be an American patriot?

There wouldn't be a Trump supporter left.

 

[Bozeman Bruiser]

Dems really should go ahead and subpoena the entire report tomorrow - get the legal ball rolling.

This is one of those things where, if anything is redacted, people will be filling in their own blanks.  Just release it, and then let the sides spin it, but let everyone make their own minds up.

I am curious, would you hold the same position if Mueller investigated "all matters" related to Russia collusion?

What if his report includes information about Hillary Clinton and the DNC paying foreign agents for Russian intelligence intended to impact the 2016 election?

(That is a fact that they have admitted to btw)

Would you be okay with a complete DECLAS of the intel related to the Australian and British intelligence related to FISA?

Page and Papadapolous were the reason for the FISA warrant, are you okay with full disclosure with regards to those issues?

(Remember, neither Page nor Papadapolous have been charged with any crimes related to Russia)

 

[sublimeone]

So again I ask: if Trump Knew he was innocent why did he spend so much time attacking Mueller? The “13 angry Democrats”? What was that all about exactly? 

I have two theories:

1. He knows there’s nothing too it and feels like he’s being framed. So he goes on the offensive. Or maybe to send a message if they are going to try and frame him he’s going to fight tooth and nail. 

Or

2. His side knows there’s nothing to it and they believe Mueller is going to investigate honestly and so they play dumb, say dumb things via Rudy, invite speculation, knowing the left is digging a deeper hole by the day. The more the left fell in love with their conspiracy theories the harder they would fall when the truth came out.

The epicness is this backfire cannot be understated. Trump is going to bludgeon the left and the media over this for the next two years. If he wins re-election, this is why.

 

[shader]

Massive victory because Trump’s hand picked guy put out this statement?

If the report totally exonerates Trump why isn’t it out for everyone right now?

Something seems rotten in Denmark to me. 

I never said this totally exonerates Trump.  But cmon man, this is a huge victory for his side and a massive loss for the other.  Obviously if it turns out that the attorney general lied and Muellers report did contain Russian collision, I’ll take it back.  But that seems...unlikely.

 

[Da Guru]

I’m honestly not sure he isn’t. 

Not over this; I never really believed it. But his authoritarian tendencies, his backing away from NATO, his treatment of refugees at the border, and his reaction to the murder of Khashoggi really bother me. 

Traitor is probably too strong a word. But he is opposed to many if not most of the ideals that I regard as American, and is the only President in history who has been. Donald Trump, IMO, is anti-American. 

What you have to realize is that is your opinion.  Trump believes everything he does is in the best interest of the USA. Trump is not a politician and that is good and bad.  I do think he has rubbed people the wrong way but also opened some eyes along the way.