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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn (8 Viewers)

timschochet said:
Another point made on Meet the Press which I hadn’t considered before: a reporter pointed out that the 63 million Americans who voted for Donald Trump are never going to accept the Russian interference story no matter how true it is, because they are offended by the idea that they might have been brainwashed or tricked into voting for Trump. If Democrats keep pressing about this, keep warning the public about it, it’s only going to piss these people off and energize them to vote for Trump again. 

I think she’s right. 
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It still could be worth it if it energizes even more Dems.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
That’s Trump’s whole thing, lib tears & claim fake news.

Those polls you keep posting have absurd numbers, like 88-91% GOP/cons opposing hearings or impeachment. So what, politically you’re going for independents and moderates.
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And the MSM has helped feed Trump's rhetoric- MSNBC, CNN, NYT, etc.. have been brutal will the Russia investigation. Scores of bellicose proclamations and predictions made to look absurd, Hundreds of hours of Avenatti, Brennan, and Clapper- talk about getting it all wrong. 

If the press had a scintilla of contrition and even a veneer of objectivity, this might be different. Does anyone remember after getting the 2016 election results so incredibly wrong there was a number of cathartic promises to get the story right and step back from bias? I do, and clearly, few lessons have been learned. 

The MSM is making Trump stronger, not weaker. Much of what is being reported on these stories has been so incredibly wrong that the fake news moniker starts to stick. (I say this and do not believe in the whole fake news idea, bias, yes, points of emphasis that paint Trump poorly- yes. But the fake news moniker is not something I use.)

 
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Ack88 said:
And the MSM has helped feed Trump's rhetoric- MSNBC, CNN, NYT, etc.. have been brutal will the Russia investigation. Scores of bellicose proclamations and predictions made to look absurd, Hundreds of hours of Avenatti, Brennan, and Clapper- talk about getting it all wrong. 

If the press had a scintilla of contrition and even a veneer of objectivity, this might be different. Does anyone remember after getting the 2016 election results so incredibly wrong there was a number of cathartic promises to get the story right and step back from bias? I do, and clearly, few lessons have been learned. 

The MSM is making Trump stronger, not weaker. Much of what is being reported on these stories has been so incredibly wrong that the fake news moniker starts to stick.
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Yet here we have a post that is mostly wrong...and it will stick.  What reporting was all wrong?  Seriously cote things where they reported incorrectly the facts as they were known? 

It sticks because people want to believe Trump (for some reason). And because he repeats things over and over until they stick without repercussion (his bogus claims of tariffs as an example).  Because some don’t care about finding out the actual facts.  

It’s likely why Barr pushed his narrative...and it stuck before people saw more of the truth.  We still see the false claims made today by supporters here and Trump on Twitter. 

But it doesn’t really make him stronger. He is gaining no base from it...at least nine I’ve seen.

 
sho nuff said:
Yet here we have a post that is mostly wrong...and it will stick.  What reporting was all wrong?  Seriously cote things where they reported incorrectly the facts as they were known? 

It sticks because people want to believe Trump (for some reason). And because he repeats things over and over until they stick without repercussion (his bogus claims of tariffs as an example).  Because some don’t care about finding out the actual facts.  

It’s likely why Barr pushed his narrative...and it stuck before people saw more of the truth.  We still see the false claims made today by supporters here and Trump on Twitter. 

But it doesn’t really make him stronger. He is gaining no base from it...at least nine I’ve seen.
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Top 10 things the media got wrong about ‘collusion’ and ‘obstruction’

https://nypost.com/2019/04/19/top-10-things-the-media-got-wrong-about-collusion-and-obstruction/

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-catastrophic-media-failure-11553555444

 
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sho nuff said:
Yet here we have a post that is mostly wrong...and it will stick.  What reporting was all wrong?  Seriously cote things where they reported incorrectly the facts as they were known? 

It sticks because people want to believe Trump (for some reason). And because he repeats things over and over until they stick without repercussion (his bogus claims of tariffs as an example).  Because some don’t care about finding out the actual facts.  

It’s likely why Barr pushed his narrative...and it stuck before people saw more of the truth.  We still see the false claims made today by supporters here and Trump on Twitter. 

But it doesn’t really make him stronger. He is gaining no base from it...at least nine I’ve seen.
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If you watched Rachel Maddow, Anderson Cooper, and others- where there not several incidents of guests, including John Brennan, saying indictments would be issued? Where there not others that said Trump would be led away in handcuffs? How many times did CNN have Michael Avenatti on? These guests led the chorus that Trump was going to be removed from office, and got it so incredibly wrong. 

Where there not dozens of times where anchors on these networks used phrases like the "walls are closing in"? 

 
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Ack88 said:
If you watched Rachel Maddow, Anderson Cooper, and others- where there not several incidents of guests, including John Brennan, saying indictments would be issued? Where there not others that said Trump would be led away in handcuffs? How many times did CNN have Michael Avenatti on? These guests led the chorus that Trump was going to be removed from office, and got it so incredibly wrong. 

Where there not dozens of times where anchors on these networks used phrases like the "walls are closing in"? 
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So if I watched biased opinion spreaders I’d know? 

I don’t know...did they say those things?  Have any real links or just taking your word for it?

Michael Avenetti for a time was pretty important to have as a guest when the stormy issue came up.  Why would they not have him on if possible?

Do you have links showing where they claimed he would be removed from office?

 
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I really think the President overreached himself with this latest tweet. Every defender of Trump, in office or out of it, should now be asked the question, do you agree with Trump that Mueller should not testify? 

 
Ack88 said:
And the MSM has helped feed Trump's rhetoric- MSNBC, CNN, NYT, etc.. have been brutal will the Russia investigation. Scores of bellicose proclamations and predictions made to look absurd, Hundreds of hours of Avenatti, Brennan, and Clapper- talk about getting it all wrong. 

If the press had a scintilla of contrition and even a veneer of objectivity, this might be different. Does anyone remember after getting the 2016 election results so incredibly wrong there was a number of cathartic promises to get the story right and step back from bias? I do, and clearly, few lessons have been learned. 

The MSM is making Trump stronger, not weaker. Much of what is being reported on these stories has been so incredibly wrong that the fake news moniker starts to stick. (I say this and do not believe in the whole fake news idea, bias, yes, points of emphasis that paint Trump poorly- yes. But the fake news moniker is not something I use.)
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The problem is that journalists have been reporting the facts, they have a duty to, and frankly Trump supporters don’t like what they hear. The Dems currently have a similar challenge, so do they do their constitutional duty or do they put political considerations first, assuming it’s a binary choice. I guess even some who have worked for Trump have faced a similar choice. Power, money, influence Vs principle.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
The problem is that journalists have been reporting the facts, they have a duty to, and frankly Trump supporters don’t like what they hear. The Dems currently have a similar challenge, so they do their constitutional duty or do they put political considerations first, assuming it’s a binary choice. I guess even some who have worked for Trump have faced a similar choice. Power, money, influence Vs principle.
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But the journalists didn’t report just facts. They reported things that were wrong. It seems the people that don’t like what they hear are the anti Trump people. 

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
The problem is that journalists have been reporting the facts, they have a duty to, and frankly Trump supporters don’t like what they hear. The Dems currently have a similar challenge, so do they do their constitutional duty or do they put political considerations first, assuming it’s a binary choice. I guess even some who have worked for Trump have faced a similar choice. Power, money, influence Vs principle.
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They have reported facts but have co-mingled much opinion and speculation with this. This has served to undermine their credibility because the declarations of indictment, jail time, and other negative outcomes for Trump have been untrue and give many a picture of bias. 

 
John Blutarsky said:
But the journalists didn’t report just facts. They reported things that were wrong. It seems the people that don’t like what they hear are the anti Trump people. 
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There have been some instances like that. There’s been a lot of reporting. It seems to me every time there’s been a correction in reporting it’s been from the publication itself. That’s actually good reporting.

 
timschochet said:
I really think the President overreached himself with this latest tweet. Every defender of Trump, in office or out of it, should now be asked the question, do you agree with Trump that Mueller should not testify? 
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It shouldn’t matter.  He shouldn’t be able to do anything to stop it.  The bad of it is like I was saying earlier. He repeats things enough he gets his people on board.  Governing is in the way back seat to campaigning and shifting public opinion. 

 
[scooter] said:
Fox had no one resign for reporting false information about Seth Rich.
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Also those reporters resigned due to how they sourced the story, not that the story was false...in addition, wasn’t the story later shown to have been true in the first place?

 
timschochet said:
Another point made on Meet the Press which I hadn’t considered before: a reporter pointed out that the 63 million Americans who voted for Donald Trump are never going to accept the Russian interference story no matter how true it is, because they are offended by the idea that they might have been brainwashed or tricked into voting for Trump. If Democrats keep pressing about this, keep warning the public about it, it’s only going to piss these people off and energize them to vote for Trump again. 

I think she’s right. 
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They don't see how insulting it is to chalk up millions of people's independent thoughts and actions to "Russian meddling," because to do so is to admit how out of touch they are.  They can't possibly understand how people were so desperate for a shift away from status quo politics, so desperate for some kind of change, that they would vote for literally anyone they thought represented a departure from and condemnation of it.  NY/DC millionaire TV pundits can't get their arms around this because they don't live in the same reality as normal people.  They just need a handsome mannequin that says pretty words, their lives are unaffected by actual policy.  

Although I agree, the sooner people drop Russia and move on to things that actually affect people's lives, the better.  

 
sho nuff said:
Also those reporters resigned due to how they sourced the story, not that the story was false...in addition, wasn’t the story later shown to have been true in the first place?
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Have you bothered to read the links I have posted on how the media got things wrong regarding Russia? This is from one of those links.

ABC’s then-investigative reporter Brian Ross incorrectly reported that Trump directed Michael Flynn to contact Russia. ABC had to bail the lifeboats when it turned out that the contact was post-election. The Dow was underwater briefly for about 350 points. Ross was later suspended and he no longer works at ABC.

here is another link 

https://theintercept.com/2019/01/20/beyond-buzzfeed-the-10-worst-most-embarrassing-u-s-media-failures-on-the-trumprussia-story/

 
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Ack88 said:
They have reported facts but have co-mingled much opinion and speculation with this. This has served to undermine their credibility because the declarations of indictment, jail time, and other negative outcomes for Trump have been untrue and give many a picture of bias. 
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You may be unaware of how much is true.

 
John Blutarsky said:

CNN had 3 reporters resign for reporting false information.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/liberal-medias-mueller-collusion-coverage-turns-out-to-be-titanic-of-media-disasters
Click to expand...

The ironic thing here is that the article mischaracterizes two facts:

1. the article claims that all 3 of the CNN employees were "reporters", when in fact one was an editor and one was a supervisor.

2. the article claims that the CNN story was "false", when CNN never stated as such. (They only stated that it did not meet their standards.)

Very, very sloppy reporting from the usually impeccable Fox News.
 
Joe Summer said:
The ironic thing here is that the article mischaracterizes two facts:

1. the article claims that all 3 of the CNN employees were "reporters", when in fact one was an editor and one was a supervisor.

2. the article claims that the CNN story was "false", when CNN never stated as such. (They only stated that it did not meet their standards.)

Very, very sloppy reporting from the usually impeccable Fox News.
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So it’s even worse it wasn’t just reporters. It was an editor and a supervisor. And did you read the part they took the story off their website? Do you care to dispute all of the other examples in the links posted here?

Here is a good article from The New York Times on the CNN story

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/26/business/3-cnn-journalists-resign-after-retracted-story-on-trump-ally.html

 
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Joe Summer said:
The ironic thing here is that the article mischaracterizes two facts:

1. the article claims that all 3 of the CNN employees were "reporters", when in fact one was an editor and one was a supervisor.

2. the article claims that the CNN story was "false", when CNN never stated as such. (They only stated that it did not meet their standards.)

Very, very sloppy reporting from the usually impeccable Fox News.
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And @SaintsInDome2006 may recall better than me...didn’t the actual story end up being true?

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
You may be unaware of how much is true.
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I would say just the opposite. 

What is interesting is that you choose not to address the claims regarding hyperbolic projections for Trump, and how spectacularly wrong many news sources were. 

What I do know is true, despite repeated declarations that Trump was going to jail, is that he has been charged with nothing- in diametric opposition to scores of claims made by the media sources. 

I would be interested to see data sources to the contrary.

 
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Ack88 said:
I would say just the opposite. 

What is interesting is that you choose not to address the claims regarding hyperbolic projections for Trump, and how spectacularly wrong many news sources were. 

What I do know is true, despite repeated declarations that Trump was going to jail, is that he has been charged with nothing- in diametric opposition to scores of claims made my the media sources. 
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Still no links to those repeated claims he was going to jail?  

 
Ack88 said:
You can find them, I'm not going to look. Avenatti via social media or TV said it for certain.

I do know Brennan said indictments were coming.
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No...you can find them. You are the one making claims that it happened.  It’s up to you to back up your claims. 

Avenatti isn’t the media, you know this, right?

 
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Ack88 said:
I would say just the opposite. 

What is interesting is that you choose not to address the claims regarding hyperbolic projections for Trump, and how spectacularly wrong many news sources were. 

What I do know is true, despite repeated declarations that Trump was going to jail, is that he has been charged with nothing- in diametric opposition to scores of claims made by the media sources. 

I would be interested to see data sources to the contrary.
Click to expand...
Are you willing to listen to sources that didn't make these proclamations about charges against Trump?

 
timschochet said:
I really think the President overreached himself with this latest tweet. Every defender of Trump, in office or out of it, should now be asked the question, do you agree with Trump that Mueller should not testify? 
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Mueller testifying will only help Trump so I hope he does.

 
Ack88 said:
How many interviews did CNN give Avenatti? How many hours of air time? When you get scores of free time on TV- you are the media.
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I don’t know and don’t care. You are the one making the claims here and thus far you are refusing to support your claims. 

 
sho nuff said:
I don’t know and don’t care. You are the one making the claims here and thus far you are refusing to support your claims. 
Click to expand...
https://news.grabien.com/story-flashback-dems-media-predict-mueller-probe-results-impeachme

"My takeaway is there’s a very real prospect that on the day Donald Trump leaves office the Justice Department may indict him, that he may be the first president in quite some time to face the real prospect of jail time," Rep. Schiff said. "We have been discussing the issue of pardons that the president may offer to people or dangle in front of people. The bigger pardon question may come down the road as the next president has to determine whether to pardon Donald Trump."

In March 2017, Rep. Joaquin Castro (D-Texas) said the evidence he had already seen was enough proof of collusion he predicted prison sentences. 

"My impression is after all of this is said and done that some people end up in jail,” he told CNN's Blitzer. "My impression is that people will probably be charged and probably go to jail.”

In March 2018, ABC's Joy Behar hopefully predicted of the Trump family:  “I think they’re all going to end up together in prison and maybe that’s a good thing.”

And that’s just skimming the surface. Check out the montage above for more. 

 
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I can see Mueller testifying as more dragging Trump's name through the mud, but what do the Dems really get out of it?

I think Mueller having to answers questions about what didn't make the report are going to be more interesting.

 
Max Power said:
I can see Mueller testifying as more dragging Trump's name through the mud, but what do the Dems really get out of it?

I think Mueller having to answers questions about what didn't make the report are going to be more interesting.
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A rebuttal of Barr's joke of an interpretation from the person that conducted the investigation. 

 
Ack88 said:
https://news.grabien.com/story-flashback-dems-media-predict-mueller-probe-results-impeachme

"My takeaway is there’s a very real prospect that on the day Donald Trump leaves office the Justice Department may indict him, that he may be the first president in quite some time to face the real prospect of jail time," Rep. Schiff said. "We have been discussing the issue of pardons that the president may offer to people or dangle in front of people. The bigger pardon question may come down the road as the next president has to determine whether to pardon Donald Trump."

In March 2017, Rep. Joaquin Castro (D-Texas) said the evidence he had already seen was enough proof of collusion he predicted prison sentences. 

"My impression is after all of this is said and done that some people end up in jail,” he told CNN's Blitzer. "My impression is that people will probably be charged and probably go to jail.”

In March 2018, ABC's Joy Behar hopefully predicted of the Trump family:  “I think they’re all going to end up together in prison and maybe that’s a good thing.”

And that’s just skimming the surface. Check out the montage above for more. 
Click to expand...
So wait...you claimed they were all wrong because he hasn’t been arrested and the first quite is talking about then possibility of it happening when he leaves office?  You think that proves your point? 

None of those things are about removing him from office or indictments while in office.  

You basically quoted things that showed your claims were inaccurate.

Also Joy Behar :lmao:

 
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sho nuff said:
So wait...you claimed they were all wrong because he hasn’t been arrested and the first quite is talking about then possibility of it happening when he leaves office?  You think that proves your point? 

None of those things are about removing him from office or indictments while in office.  

You basically quoted things that showed your claims were inaccurate.

Also Joy Behar :lmao:
Click to expand...
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/elizabeth-warren-endorses-use-of-25th-amendment-to-remove-trump-from-office

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/02/20/tom_steyer_until_trump_is_removed_from_office_the_country_is_at_risk.html

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efforts_to_impeach_Donald_Trump

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/feb/14/andrew-mccabe-trump-comey-firing-remove-office-25th-amendment

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/04/08/msnbc_joy_reid_what_if_trump_refuses_to_be_arrested_by_federal_marshals.html

 
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The direct claim I made had to do with those in the media saying Trump was going to jail. The links demonstrably show that is true.

 
Ack88 said:
If you watched Rachel Maddow, Anderson Cooper, and others- where there not several incidents of guests, including John Brennan, saying indictments would be issued? Where there not others that said Trump would be led away in handcuffs? How many times did CNN have Michael Avenatti on? These guests led the chorus that Trump was going to be removed from office, and got it so incredibly wrong. 

Where there not dozens of times where anchors on these networks used phrases like the "walls are closing in"? 
Click to expand...


Ack88 said:
The direct claim I made had to do with those in the media saying Trump was going to jail. The links demonstrably show that is true.
Click to expand...
See the bolded. Your links demonstrated none of your original claim I asked you to back up.

 
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sho nuff said:
So wait...you claimed they were all wrong because he hasn’t been arrested and the first quite is talking about then possibility of it happening when he leaves office?  You think that proves your point? 

None of those things are about removing him from office or indictments while in office.  

You basically quoted things that showed your claims were inaccurate.

Also Joy Behar :lmao:
Click to expand...
This is exactly what I said

If you watched Rachel Maddow, Anderson Cooper, and others- where there not several incidents of guests, including John Brennan, saying indictments would be issued? Where there not others that said Trump would be led away in handcuffs? How many times did CNN have Michael Avenatti on? These guests led the chorus that Trump was going to be removed from office, and got it so incredibly wrong. 

Where there not dozens of times where anchors on these networks used phrases like the "walls are closing in"? 

The link I shared directly correlated the claims I made above. People in the media said Donald Trump was going to jail. 

 
Max Power said:
I can see Mueller testifying as more dragging Trump's name through the mud, but what do the Dems really get out of it?

I think Mueller having to answers questions about what didn't make the report are going to be more interesting.
Click to expand...
You answered the first sentence with the second sentence.

 
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