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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn (4 Viewers)

SameSongNDance said:
The Senate intelligence committee has sent formal requests to more than a dozen organizations, agencies and individuals, asking them to preserve all materials related to a probe the panel is conducting on Russian interference in the 2016 election and related issues, a congressional aide said Saturday.
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Friday the SCIF session.

Saturday the preservation order.

Sunday the NYT report on Sater.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
[SIZE=12pt]Before entering politics, Mr. Artemenko had business ventures in the Middle East and real estate deals in the Miami area, and had worked as an agent representing top Ukrainian athletes. Some colleagues in Parliament describe him as corrupt, untrustworthy or simply insignificant, but he appears to have amassed considerable wealth.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]He has fashioned himself in the image of Mr. Trump, presenting himself as Ukraine’s answer to a rising class of nationalist leaders in the West. He even traveled to Cleveland last summer for the Republican National Convention, seizing on the chance to meet with members of Mr. Trump’s campaign.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]“It’s time for new leaders, new approaches to the governance of the country, new principles and new negotiators in international politics,” he wrote on Facebook on Jan. 27. “Our time has come!”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Mr. Artemenko said he saw in Mr. Trump an opportunity to advocate a plan for peace in Ukraine...[/SIZE]
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- NYT.

Oh. The RNC in Cleveland.

When the Ukraine plank was changed.

 
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so, as I see it, here are the possible ways this can come back to bite Trump in the ###:

  1. association with Russian Mafia - money laundering, RICO, etc. All of this pre-dates his election bid and ultimately doesn't harm national security, so Trumpfans would percieve this as political (even though they claim to be in favor of law and order).
  2. emoluments/Conflicts of Interest - We have no idea what kind of business Trump has in Russia.  He says it's nothing, his son says a disproportional amount.  I'd be very curious as to who our president is/has been dealing with. This all, by the way, extends to Tillerson.  Again, probably not enough here to impeach unless they find something especially juicy.
  3. Did Team Trump actively conspire with the Russian Government to illegally hack the DNC and release what they found?  If so, this is probably impeachable.  Much worse than what Nixon did - it is similar in terms of hacking/breaking into, but differs because of the participation of a hostile foreign nation.
  4. Is Trump a Russian operative?  A puppet?  Maybe they hold kompromat on him, maybe they have been working him to sway his politics/opinions.  This ventures into the treason realm.
 
SameSongNDance said:
Ha, I was just looking at something similar to that but as it pertains to Russia/Ukraine connections. It was going smoothly until my head started to hurt and a man donning a fedora and trench coat appeared before me.

In all serious, the guy that runs that twitter account has been intensely researching this stuff for a while. I'm sure he's been mentioned in this thread at some point but if not he's worth the follow.
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Khan has been laser focused on these Russian ties for months. I finally had to stop following because I needed a break.

 
SameSongNDance said:
Ha, I was just looking at something similar to that but as it pertains to Russia/Ukraine connections. It was going smoothly until my head started to hurt and a man donning a fedora and trench coat appeared before me.

In all serious, the guy that runs that twitter account has been intensely researching this stuff for a while. I'm sure he's been mentioned in this thread at some point but if not he's worth the follow.
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It is interesting that John McCain's campaign manager, Rick Davis, was a business partner with Paul Manafort

 
lakerstan said:
It is interesting that John McCain's campaign manager, Rick Davis, was a business partner with Paul Manafort
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This this entire article published about Manafort last year is fascinating, but also brings some clarity about how vocal McCain is about Trump and Russia...

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/04/paul_manafort_isn_t_a_gop_retread_he_s_made_a_career_of_reinventing_tyrants.html

Manafort and Davis didn’t just snooker McCain into trumpeting their client’s cause; they endangered him politically, by arranging a series of meetings with Deripaska, who the U.S. had barred from entering the country because of his ties to organized crime. In 2006, they steered McCain to attend a dinner with the oligarch at a chalet near Davos, where Deripaska speechified for the 40 or so guests. (The Washington Post reported that the oligarch sent Davis and Manafort a thank-you note for arranging to see the senator in “such an intimate setting.”) Seven months later, Manafort and Davis took McCain to celebrate his 70th birthday with Deripaska on a yacht moored in the Adriatic.

Not everyone within the McCain camp felt comfortable with this relationship. One group of aides pushed hard for McCain to fire Rick Davis for sullying the senator with the firm’s muck. McCain intended to do just that. The senator had backed the cause of Ukrainian democracy and he couldn’t stomach his top aide’s firm working to undermine it. What’s more, aides had come to McCain with the rumor that Deripaska had purchased an apartment in Trump Tower for Davis and Manafort. But in the moment, McCain lost his nerve, as his aides have recounted the episode. Davis supplied a tear-filled soliloquy that saved his job. “Rick’s plea somehow worked—and that was the root of the divisions that tore apart the campaign,” one of McCain’s top advisers told me.

 
I have faith that people are going to keep digging.  Either there is a crime there or there isn't.   If there is, it will come out.  Too many hounds on the trail at this point to hide much.  

 
Sabertooth said:
I have faith that people are going to keep digging.  Either there is a crime there or there isn't.   If there is, it will come out.  Too many hounds on the trail at this point to hide much.  
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Plus Trump's acting like he has something to hide. I'm 100% convinced there's something damaging he doesn't want us to see. Don't know if it'll be impeachable but there's something damaging he's hiding. 

 
VandyMan said:
I expected "least convincing man in the world" to be an exaggeration, but just watched and...holy cow! That guy should stay away from reporters.
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He essentially pulls a "The leaks are real but the news is fake." at the start of the interview but because he's visually cognizant of how ####### ridiculous it sounds he can't pull it off like Trump. 

And his face when he's questioned on Rosneft  :lmao:

 
Sabertooth said:
I have faith that people are going to keep digging.  Either there is a crime there or there isn't.   If there is, it will come out.  Too many hounds on the trail at this point to hide much.  
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At some point it would be in Russia's best interest to let things leak out.  They may find Trump to be a risky partner and want to call this off.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Russian ambassador to UN says met Trump twice


August 2, 2016 TASS
Russian ambassador to the UN Vitaly Churkin said on August 1 he had had two meetings with the Republican candidate for the White House, Donald Trump, who is the Republican candidate for U.S. presidency and the man had produced an encouraging impression on him.

Churklin said it while speaking to reporters at the UN headquarters.

"I met with Trump," he said. "I think our first meeting took place in 1986 and the second, a few years ago. He really impressed me."

Churkin recalled that he accompanied Soviet ambassador Yuri Dubinin on a trip to New York thirty years ago. Dubinin then had a meeting with a group of top business executives and Trump was among them.

"This was a brief meeting but I was very, very impressed," he said. "You know, I was impressed by his energetic, open approach to doing business. Such are my personal recollections going some thirty years back."

Churkin refrained from comments on Trump’s indications that he might possibly recognizes the status of Crimea as a part of Russia.

"That’s a nice step but I’m not going to discuss it," he said.

Also, he declined to answer a question on whether or not Trump could be a good president.

On July 31, Trump said in an interview with the ABC the people of Crimea had made a choice in favor of Russia and the U.S. should take account of it.

When asked if he was ready to recognize Crimea as a constituent region of Russia, he said he would consider this possibility.

Source: Tass.com
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http://rbth.com/news/2016/08/02/russian-ambassador-to-un-says-met-trump-twice_617373

- Btw we're getting more info from Tass about Trump & Russia these days than from WaPo etc., largely I guess because they can't help bragging.

- 2013 was the Ms. Universe pageant in Moscow.

- Posted before, but more background here.
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- Churkin was part of the original Soviet exchanges with Trump in 1986.

- Then recently he stated this.

Now he's dead.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
How does this work again?

- Kushner bought from Leviev with Blackstone money?

Having a hard time unpacking this one, but it's complicated.
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I started actually paying attention to this after Flynn was fired because I smelled blood in the water. Like saintfool, I'm already pretty exhausted. I have no idea how Khan hasn't burnt out yet.

 
Why Russian Military Aggression Has Backfired on Moscow


- Tthe precept in the Steele dossier for the Trump campaign to trade off 1. support of Ukraine platform at the RNC (along with 2. Euro defence commitments NATO relevance) for WL plausible deniability, was:

to deflect attention away from Ukraine, a priority for PUTIN who needed to cauterise the subject.
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- I never understood this phrase.

- From the article:

Altogether, Eastern Europe has become the most rapidly militarizing region on earth, which is not to Moscow’s advantage.

“I think [Russia’s military policies] have failed because they stimulated national resistance and the beginning of NATO rearmament,” Stephen Blank, senior fellow for Russia at the American Foreign Policy Council, told The Daily Signal.
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- One way to look at the Russian invasions of Georgia and Ukraine is they block any attempts by those countries to enter NATO.

However once that is accomplished, followed by declaring independent republics in Ossetia and Donbas, then what?

Today is the 3rd anniversary of the invasion of Ukraine, so it seems like as good a time as any to ask what was meant by that reference to 'cauterise'?

Feb. 2014 Russia goes into Ukraine to neutralize it from turning west (joining the EU & NATO) when Yanukovych is ousted, ~June 2016 Russia allegedly is working with Manafort/Trump to destroy the EU and sideline NATO altogether.

 
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Fox News article on the Felix Sater connection, he was interviewed for this article.

Here's what Sater had to say..

"What could be wrong in helping stop a war and trying to achieve peace? I have done so much for my country and thought that promoting peace was a good thing,” he told Fox News. “People are getting killed, it's a war."
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"I was absolutely not a link between the Trump campaign and the Russian government,” he said. “I have no contact with anyone in the Russian government."
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"The press refers to me as 'a Russian businessman.' I came here when I was 7 years old,” he said. “I am an American businessman of Russian descent, who happens to have been born in Russia."
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'It feels horrible and terrible to be dragged through the mud for no reason whatsoever," he said.
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It's hard to say whether or not Fox is just softening up his image here, but the mere fact that they're even reporting on it..I don't know.

 
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JΞSŦΞR ✪ ΔCŦUAL³³º¹ ‏@th3j35t3r  16m16 minutes ago

More

Russians connected w/ dossier, who since 'died' Erovinkin, Krivov, Karlov, Melanin, Chandelon, Polshikov, Churkin Not bad for 'fake news'

 
Even if none of this produces anything, it's already had an effect, because so far Trump has completely backtracked on his rhetoric with regards to Russia: he's not lifting any sanctions, his people are committed to NATO, etc.

We'll see if it lasts.

 
The Future Champs said:
Awesome interviewer. Carter Page now on record with multiple denials, which is might prove to be very inconvenient in the future.

Btw, carter page was :wolf:y as hell; in no way did he sound like someone refuting false accusations.
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I posted the Carter Page interview a few pages back. Look at the dudes face when he was being questioned on the 19% stake in Rosneft. I'm not a body language expert but I think it's safe to say that this dude shouldn't play poker anytime soon.

Also, here's an NYT article titled Contradicting Trump on Russia: Russian Officials that should make the rounds today. Maybe it's because I'm tired but I'm not sure there's any new information in here although people seem to think it's a big deal on twitter, facebook and etc. I thought we already knew that Team Trump was in contact with Rybkov and Kislyak through-out the election. Maybe someone can enlighten me when I wake up.

 
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Ya, something is off here.   He's downplaying his connections and influence in the Trump administration, even as he's claiming absolutely nothing happened.   

 
SameSongNDance said:
I posted the Carter Page interview a few pages back. Look at the dudes face when he was being questioned on the 19% stake in Rosneft. I'm not a body language expert but I think it's safe to say that this dude shouldn't play poker anytime soon.

Also, here's an NYT article titled Contradicting Trump on Russia: Russian Officials that should make the rounds today. Maybe it's because I'm tired but I'm not sure there's any new information in here although people seem to think it's a big deal on twitter, facebook and etc. I thought we already knew that Team Trump was in contact with Rybkov and Kislyak through-out the election. Maybe someone can enlighten me when I wake up.
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Yeah sorry you sure did, I couldn't remember if it was the whole interview or not but now yeah I think you did. The refresher look was interesting to me in light of the Sater interview article.

It's funny to me too, Page and Sater showing up for interviews reminds me of the scene in Millers Crossing where Bernie threatens Tom by alluding that he might just starting eating out at restaurants.

 
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SameSongNDance said:
I posted the Carter Page interview a few pages back. Look at the dudes face when he was being questioned on the 19% stake in Rosneft. I'm not a body language expert but I think it's safe to say that this dude shouldn't play poker anytime soon.

Also, here's an NYT article titled Contradicting Trump on Russia: Russian Officials that should make the rounds today. Maybe it's because I'm tired but I'm not sure there's any new information in here although people seem to think it's a big deal on twitter, facebook and etc. I thought we already knew that Team Trump was in contact with Rybkov and Kislyak through-out the election. Maybe someone can enlighten me when I wake up.
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Nothing really new in the second article, just the nagging question:  If there is nothing nefarious going on, why does Trump keep lying about it?

 
Tellya Rove, the funniest thing about that is it indicates that someone feels the need to link up Churkin and McCain because they know there are whispers about Trump and Churkin having a relationship going back 30 years and as recently as 2013 in Moscow.

Lana Ashford ‏@LanaAshford1 23h23 hours ago

@StevePieczenik wiki leaks just released John McCain's fundraising appeal to Vitaly Churkin/Russia Of Sep 29 2008.
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- Oh it was WL itself.

Weird, almost like they're deflecting with an imagined conflict.

The story was reported back in 2008.

 
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