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The Russia Ukraine Conflict Thread (2 Viewers)

GregR said:
Russia warns of nuclear, hypersonic deployment if Sweden and Finland join NATO

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-warns-baltic-nuclear-deployment-if-nato-admits-sweden-finland-2022-04-14/

LONDON, April 14 (Reuters) - One of Russian President Vladimir Putin's closest allies warned NATO on Thursday that if Sweden and Finland joined the U.S.-led military alliance then Russia would deploy nuclear weapons and hypersonic missiles in an exclave in the heart of Europe.

Finland, which shares a 1,300-km (810-mile) border with Russia, and Sweden are considering joining the NATO alliance. Finland will decide in the next few weeks, Prime Minister Sanna Marin said on Wednesday. read more

Dmitry Medvedev, deputy chairman of Russia's Security Council, said that should Sweden and Finland join NATO then Russia would have to strengthen its land, naval and air forces in the Baltic Sea.

Medvedev also explicitly raised the nuclear threat by saying that there could be no more talk of a "nuclear free" Baltic - where Russia has its Kaliningrad exclave sandwiched between Poland and Lithuania.

"There can be no more talk of any nuclear–free status for the Baltic - the balance must be restored," said Medvedev, who was Russian president from 2008 to 2012.

Medvedev said he hoped Finland and Sweden would see sense. If not, he said, they would have to live with nuclear weapons and hypersonic missiles close to home.

Russia has the world's biggest arsenal of nuclear warheads and along with China and the United States is one of the global leaders in hypersonic missile technology.

Lithuania said Russia's threats were nothing new and that Moscow had deployed nuclear weapons to Kaliningrad long before the war in Ukraine. NATO did not immediately respond to Russia's warning. 
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Blah blah blah, nobody believes you, Russia. You drove neutral countries away from you, and it’s all your fault.

 
BBC article that contradicts some of my terrain-related concerns, though they were things I've heard from various TV interviews with former military over the last few weeks speaking about fighting in other parts of Ukraine. So not sure what to think.

Basically saying, not as much woods will help Ukraine. Also saying due to 2 years of fighting there Ukraine has defenses they've spent years preparing and are well dug in and fortified.  Which, encircling and trying to starve them out would seem like a tactic for Russia then (my view).

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61023869

 
So I stand corrected, looks like the Moskva is still afloat, for now. Time for Ukraine to make sure it doesn’t stay that way.

 
Have we ever fought wars that were this telegraphed? I mean, it's announcement after announcement. Whatever happened to stealth warfare? Is it because everybody has nukes and that's the obvious trump card for any invading nation who has them? 

This whole thing just strikes me as ridiculous. 

I hope this doesn't come off as a get off my lawn thing, only about war. I'm hardly callous as I write this. There are civilians dying and being killed and war crimes being committed, but it's so odd that it's so transparent and naked. 

What the #### are people dying for, anyway? So Russia can have its training exercise? The more I write, the more upset I get, I guess. Never has rank incompetence in the "art" of war been so apparent, and so backed up by the big stick. 

It's infuriating. It's tragic. These nukes are tragic for humanity, who would otherwise be able to prevent this. 

I believe in science? #### that, science gave us this. 

 
Ted Lange as your Bartender said:
https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1514661733389901836?s=10&t=O5Ciz1Rrg2b58WxpgB5S-Q
 

GREAT NEWS FROM PUTIN'S FASCIST STATE:
More than 100 traffic police officers of the Rostov Department of Internal Affairs (УМВД) refused to be recruited as soldiers to take part in the war against Ukraine.  
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More from that tweet thread, before I share my reaction to reading it:

A criminal case was immediately opened against many of the traffic cops under the article "Organization and Participation in a Criminal Organization.” (Similar to the US's RICO laws used against Organized Crime.)

These Russian traffic cops who refused to partake in the invasion of Ukraine are now the “mafia,” according to the charges filed by the Russian government.

More than 30 of these traffic police officers have already been arrested in the Rostov Region, including the commander of the Rostov Region's DPS Battalion No. 1, Andrei Kardashian. Nearly 90 more officers are awaiting interrogation by investigators, regional media reported.

My reaction:

Signs of dissent are a good thing on one hand. On the other hand I worry that if they are not widespread enough that dissent is just going to identify those who stand against Putin's actions. Where they can be more easily eliminated and make it even tougher in the long run for the people to overcome him. 

I just don't have very optimistic feelings about Russians removing him from power at this point. The sanctions still haven't truly made themselves felt yet, as machinery breaks down and can't be replaced, as products can't be produced in the months to come, is when they'll really start to hit. I just worry he's going to have such an iron fist in place already by then.

 
Kyle Griffin @kylegriffin 14m

Finland is "highly likely" to join NATO following the Russian invasion of Ukraine, its Europe minister has told Sky News.

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1514989423036755968

Seems the right decision considering Russia invaded them before (The Winter War 1939-1940) and they would probably next on Putin's hit list if he is successful with Ukraine.

 
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squistion said:
Kyle Griffin @kylegriffin 14m

Finland is "highly likely" to join NATO following the Russian invasion of Ukraine, its Europe minister has told Sky News.

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1514989423036755968

Seems the right decision considering Russia invaded them before (The Winter War 1939-1940) and they would probably next on Putin's hit list if he is successful with Ukraine.
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I’d imagine Poland would have been on that list as well, or it would have been if Russia didn’t suck at fighting wars. I think Sweden has made a similar decision to the one Finland made, too.

 
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/powerful-explosions-heard-kyiv-after-russian-warship-sinks-2022-04-15/

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/fortress-city-ukrainians-cling-steel-plant-mariupol-2022-04-15/

Ukraine hanging on in the steel factory in Mariupol but it's not sounding good. Sounds unlikely other units can break through to relieve them.

Russia used long range bombers for the first time in the invasion, on Mariupol. They also say they hit a Kyiv factory that makes and repairs the anti-ship missiles. Odd that they targeted it when the ship sank because of a fire an ammo explosion. But you know, whatever.

Military analyst saying if the defenders in Mariupol surrender they won't be spared, so need to fight to the end.

 
GregR said:
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/powerful-explosions-heard-kyiv-after-russian-warship-sinks-2022-04-15/

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/fortress-city-ukrainians-cling-steel-plant-mariupol-2022-04-15/

Ukraine hanging on in the steel factory in Mariupol but it's not sounding good. Sounds unlikely other units can break through to relieve them.

Russia used long range bombers for the first time in the invasion, on Mariupol. They also say they hit a Kyiv factory that makes and repairs the anti-ship missiles. Odd that they targeted it when the ship sank because of a fire an ammo explosion. But you know, whatever.

Military analyst saying if the defenders in Mariupol surrender they won't be spared, so need to fight to the end.
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There is no way that those soldiers survive if they surrender. They’re better off fighting to the last. I’m not sure who Russia thinks they’re fooling.

 
Some interesting stuff on the sinking of the Moskva

 https://twitter.com/alessionaval/status/1514529987101175811

This next article was posted on 4/12, before the ship had been hit

https://cimsec.org/an-anti-access-denial-strategy-for-ukraine/

This article is from 4/7

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2022/04/russias-most-powerful-warship-in-the-black-sea-is-operating-in-a-pattern/

It doesn't sound like the Moskva was a big contributor to the war effort in the Black Sea.  It is mostly designed to fight other ships and defend against air craft, neither of which is a big threat from Ukraine.  But as the flagship of the fleet, it's loss would be devastating to morale.  And it would have to make the Russians think long and hard about attempting an amphibious assault on Odessa, or sailing to close to shore for any reason there.

 
Franklin Graham is catching heat for asking people to “pray for Putin,” and I understand why. The guy is a madman, his troops are committing unspeakable acts of atrocity in Ukraine against civilians, and in a losing effort, too. However, I offer a secondary option: if one is moved to pray for Putin, may I suggest the words of Psalm 109. It’s appropriate for the situation.

 
Kal El said:
Franklin Graham is catching heat for asking people to “pray for Putin,” and I understand why. The guy is a madman, his troops are committing unspeakable acts of atrocity in Ukraine against civilians, and in a losing effort, too. However, I offer a secondary option: if one is moved to pray for Putin, may I suggest the words of Psalm 109. It’s appropriate for the situation.
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had to google who Franklin Graham was.  no way am i praying for putin.  

 
Kal El said:
Franklin Graham is catching heat for asking people to “pray for Putin,” and I understand why. The guy is a madman, his troops are committing unspeakable acts of atrocity in Ukraine against civilians, and in a losing effort, too. However, I offer a secondary option: if one is moved to pray for Putin, may I suggest the words of Psalm 109. It’s appropriate for the situation.
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kodycutter said:
had to google who Franklin Graham was.  no way am i praying for putin.  
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Could it be that what he meant by "pray for Putin" was to to pray for him to come to his senses and stop the madness?

 
kodycutter said:
had to google who Franklin Graham was.  no way am i praying for putin.  
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For those who don’t want to look it up, it’s basically praying for his utter failure. “So they reward me evil for good, and hatred for my love. Appoint a wicked man against him; let an accuser stand at his right hand. When he is tried, let him come forth guilty; let his prayer be counted as sin! May his days be few; may another take his office! May his children be fatherless and his wife a widow! May his children wander about and beg, seeking food far from the ruins they inhabit! May the creditor seize all that he has; may strangers plunder the fruits of his toil! Let there be none to extend kindness to him, nor any to pity his fatherless children! May his posterity be cut off; may his name be blotted out in the second generation! May the iniquity of his fathers be remembered before the Lord, and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out! Let them be before the Lord continually, that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth!”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭109:5-15‬ ‭ESV‬‬

 
Kal El said:
For those who don’t want to look it up, it’s basically praying for his utter failure. “So they reward me evil for good, and hatred for my love. Appoint a wicked man against him; let an accuser stand at his right hand. When he is tried, let him come forth guilty; let his prayer be counted as sin! May his days be few; may another take his office! May his children be fatherless and his wife a widow! May his children wander about and beg, seeking food far from the ruins they inhabit! May the creditor seize all that he has; may strangers plunder the fruits of his toil! Let there be none to extend kindness to him, nor any to pity his fatherless children! May his posterity be cut off; may his name be blotted out in the second generation! May the iniquity of his fathers be remembered before the Lord, and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out! Let them be before the Lord continually, that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth!”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭109:5-15‬ ‭ESV‬‬
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I can get behind that.  thank you for the quote.

 
Radio Free Europe;  Russian Soldier And Wife Discussing Rape Of Ukrainian Women Identified By RFE/RL

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-rape-russian-soldier-wife-bykovsky/31805486.html

The identities of a Russian soldier and his wife who discussed the rape of Ukrainian women in a phone call have been revealed following an investigation by RFE/RL.

The investigation found that Roman Bykovsky, 27, and his wife, Olga Bykovskaya, whose maiden name is Pinyasovaya, were the couple behind the shocking call that has fed fears of mass rape of Ukrainian women by Russian soldiers.

During the call, which Ukrainian security services in the Kherson region in the country’s south said they intercepted before publishing it earlier this month, a woman can be heard giving permission to a man to rape Ukrainian women.

“Yes, I allow it. Just wear protection,” the woman says between laughs.

Reporters from RFE/RL's Russian Service and Schemes, a joint investigative project run by RFE/RL's Ukrainian Service, received the telephone numbers of the participants in the infamous call from sources in Ukraine’s security services and used the numbers to find the social media accounts of Bykovsky and his wife.

Born and raised in Oryol, Russia, a town about 350 kilometers southwest of Moscow, the Bykovskys moved to Crimea a few years after Russia seized the peninsula from Ukraine.

Social media posts by Bykovsky’s mother, Irina Bykovskaya, show that he is a member of Russia’s armed forces.

When contacted by RFE/RL, Bykovsky confirmed his identity and said he was in Sevastopol, the Crimean port where Russia's Black Sea fleet is based. However, he denied he was the man on the call.

Olga Bykovskaya confirmed her husband was in Sevastopol, saying he was wounded and being treated in a hospital when RFE/RL contacted her.

Neither would answer any more questions.

Despite Bykovsky's denial, his voice and that of his wife match those heard on the call intercepted by Ukrainian security services, RFE/RL and Schemes reported.

No one has accused Bykovsky of rape and no charges have been filed against the couple.

 
GregR said:
Radio Free Europe;  Russian Soldier And Wife Discussing Rape Of Ukrainian Women Identified By RFE/RL

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-rape-russian-soldier-wife-bykovsky/31805486.html

The identities of a Russian soldier and his wife who discussed the rape of Ukrainian women in a phone call have been revealed following an investigation by RFE/RL.

The investigation found that Roman Bykovsky, 27, and his wife, Olga Bykovskaya, whose maiden name is Pinyasovaya, were the couple behind the shocking call that has fed fears of mass rape of Ukrainian women by Russian soldiers.

During the call, which Ukrainian security services in the Kherson region in the country’s south said they intercepted before publishing it earlier this month, a woman can be heard giving permission to a man to rape Ukrainian women.

“Yes, I allow it. Just wear protection,” the woman says between laughs.

Reporters from RFE/RL's Russian Service and Schemes, a joint investigative project run by RFE/RL's Ukrainian Service, received the telephone numbers of the participants in the infamous call from sources in Ukraine’s security services and used the numbers to find the social media accounts of Bykovsky and his wife.

Born and raised in Oryol, Russia, a town about 350 kilometers southwest of Moscow, the Bykovskys moved to Crimea a few years after Russia seized the peninsula from Ukraine.

Social media posts by Bykovsky’s mother, Irina Bykovskaya, show that he is a member of Russia’s armed forces.

When contacted by RFE/RL, Bykovsky confirmed his identity and said he was in Sevastopol, the Crimean port where Russia's Black Sea fleet is based. However, he denied he was the man on the call.

Olga Bykovskaya confirmed her husband was in Sevastopol, saying he was wounded and being treated in a hospital when RFE/RL contacted her.

Neither would answer any more questions.

Despite Bykovsky's denial, his voice and that of his wife match those heard on the call intercepted by Ukrainian security services, RFE/RL and Schemes reported.

No one has accused Bykovsky of rape and no charges have been filed against the couple.
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disturbing story.  would shed no tears if the wife faced the same.

 
Kal El said:
Franklin Graham is catching heat for asking people to “pray for Putin,” and I understand why. The guy is a madman, his troops are committing unspeakable acts of atrocity in Ukraine against civilians, and in a losing effort, too. However, I offer a secondary option: if one is moved to pray for Putin, may I suggest the words of Psalm 109. It’s appropriate for the situation.
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I totally understand your feelings and there is certainly plenty of examples of Old Testament figures doing exactly that (especially David). But I have a hard time rectifying that with the words of Jesus:

”You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.”

I think think an argument can be made that there is a difference between praying for someone that is persecuting you versus praying for someone that is persecuting the innocent, but ultimately we know that the two greatest commands are to love God and love others as we love ourselves. I’m not sure that hoping and praying for someone’s destruction is in line with that. At least for me. It’s a sticky thing though and I can certainly appreciate that there are a lot of concerns and other questions that can get wrapped up in this.

 
GroveDiesel said:
I totally understand your feelings and there is certainly plenty of examples of Old Testament figures doing exactly that (especially David). But I have a hard time rectifying that with the words of Jesus:

”You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.”

I think think an argument can be made that there is a difference between praying for someone that is persecuting you versus praying for someone that is persecuting the innocent, but ultimately we know that the two greatest commands are to love God and love others as we love ourselves. I’m not sure that hoping and praying for someone’s destruction is in line with that. At least for me. It’s a sticky thing though and I can certainly appreciate that there are a lot of concerns and other questions that can get wrapped up in this.
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I understand and agree with this, but if this is what gets this whole mess to stop, so be it. I do believe that God is going to make this right(I don’t know how, but that’s the response I got when I started praying about this), and He will.

ETA: Even after this, I don’t hate Putin. I do, however, want him out of power. He deserves God’s mercy as much as I do.

 
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Found an article talking about the Ukrainians using cluster munitions, a weapon banned by a lot of countries. Curiously enough, the agreement banning their use wasn’t signed by Russia, Ukraine, or the United States. 
 

On a personal note, I understand why a lot of places banned their use, but I also understand the idea of “Turnabout is fair play.” Ukraine is fighting for its life, and honestly, I’m fine with almost any means they use to ensure that survival in this war.

 
Redwes25 said:
Ukraine (Zelensky speach) is saying that Russian assault in the East has begun.  Nex two weeks will be critical to the outcome of this war.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/04/18/world/lviv-governor-says-6-people-were-killed-another-8-were-wounded-by-russian-missile-strikes-western-ukrainian-city/
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I wonder if Ukraine would mind if we delivered our next batch of weapons a little faster than expected, like “launch speed” faster. I know it’s not going to happen, relax, but Zelenskyy does need whatever help anyone can offer. Any word on whether the Russians are still bringing out old outdated equipment, keeping it on roads and rails, and struggling to find suckers to go and die needlessly?

 
Kal El said:
I wonder if Ukraine would mind if we delivered our next batch of weapons a little faster than expected, like “launch speed” faster. I know it’s not going to happen, relax, but Zelenskyy does need whatever help anyone can offer. Any word on whether the Russians are still bringing out old outdated equipment, keeping it on roads and rails, and struggling to find suckers to go and die needlessly?
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I don't know the answer to your question, but this new fight will be a different fight.  It will occur more in the open country ...and open country with less forest cover than further north.  I've read that this is likely to be more of a traditional slugfest.  

 
tri-man 47 said:
I don't know the answer to your question, but this new fight will be a different fight.  It will occur more in the open country ...and open country with less forest cover than further north.  I've read that this is likely to be more of a traditional slugfest.  
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I’ve heard that, too, but Russia still has an equipment & personnel disadvantage, in terms of quality, and Ukraine has everything to lose here, do they’re going to fight with everything they have, and we(the free world, not necessarily just us) should back that up.

 
Kal El said:
 Russia still has an equipment & personnel disadvantage, in terms of quality, 
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I sure hope those American Howitzers show up soon in Ukraine. Those things can toss shells over 40 miles.

It'll be nice to have Russia's artillery see a lot more coming back their way. 

 
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